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You're Driving All Wrong, Says NHTSA
antdude writes "This MSNBC Bottom Line story/article says that 'If you're a conscientious motorist who still does everything the way your driver's-ed instructor told you to, you're doing it all wrong. For decades, the standard instruction was that drivers should hold the steering wheel at the 10 and 2 positions, as envisioned on a clock. This, it turns out, is no longer the case. In fact, driving that way could cost you your arms or hands in particularly gruesome ways if your airbag deploys. Instead AAA, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and many driving instructors now say you should grip the wheel at 9 and 3 o'clock. A few go even further, suggesting 8 and 4 to avoid the airbag mechanism as much as possible, but what formal research has been published on the varieties of hand positions suggests that this may lessen your control of the car.'" I usually hold even lower on the wheel, perhaps 4:30 and 7:30, but I also drive with my seat pushed farther forward than most people like. Drivers, what's your approach?
... like a boss.
I let my wife drive. I need my hands to hold my beer.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Didn't mythbusters disprove this finger myth years ago?
Is what most professional race drivers have done for decades, for several reasons.
How many of s stick our elbow out the window and do a 9ish position 1/2 the time?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I drive coaches, busses and cars...
I personally hold my hands like this;
Coach/Bus: Left hand on the money tray, RIght hand at 2
Car: Left hand on gear stick (yes... in the real world we drive manuals...) and right hand at 2
Driving with 2 hands on the wheel seems unnatural to me unless i'm flooring it... as I drive really relaxed...
Left elbow out the window, steering wheel held by hanging thumb on steering wheel spoke. Right hand either: manipulating some text messaging device, hanging over back of bench seat or trying to slip up the skirt of some babe sitting next to me.
Front seat passengers should place feet up on the dashboard immediately on top of passenger airbag deployment panel to ensure major foot/leg injuries in the event of deployment.
Have gnu, will travel.
My clocks have numbers, not hands.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I had my hands at roughly 9 and 3 when it did; all I got from the airbag were some friction burns on my right arm and a good snort of stuff I'd have rather not breathed.
Trying to specify any particular exact hand position given the variety of people, steering wheels, and driving positions seems pointless.
And performance driving instructors have been advocating push-pull steering (rather than hand-over-hand) for a very long time. Not because of the airbag, but because it provides better control. Whether it makes a difference on the road or in the mall parking lot I doubt.
I sit so far back from the wheel that it would not do me any good anyway, and the collision threshold is typically set so low that the airbag actually presents a greater threat than is justifiable. In a low-speed collision where the car does not come to a stop, it might still be necessary to control the vehicle afterwards. If your arms have been blown off the steering wheel and possibly broken/severed by it, that's not possible, and can lead to secondary, even more injurious collisions.
I know this because I was involved in just such a collision (with a deer) where the airbag caused me to lose control of my vehicle, and my arms were broken so badly I could not turn the wheel to avoid having a second, must worse collision (with a tree), which killed my wife and 4 year old son, and left me paralyzed from the waist down.
They told me my son was killed instantly, and it took my wife 8 days to pass away in intensive care. I did not wake up from my coma until day 9. That was the worst day of my life.
Being without arms, and a right leg; I use my nose.
One hand at 8 or 4 o'clock, one hand around cell phone
My friend says that everyone would drive a whole lot more safely if there was a huge, sharp metal spike on the steering wheel that was pointed toward the driver's chest. I think he might be right.
Index finger and Thumb at the 7 o'clock position
If you have prosthetic arms, the prosthetic hands are assumed.
Drive with your knees. It keeps your hands free for the important things like texting and eating.
Now, a few basic points about driving. One of the first things they teach you in Driver's Ed is where to put your hands on the steering wheel. They tell you put 'em at ten o'clock and two o'clock. Never mind that. I put mine at 9:45 and 2:17. Gives me an extra half hour to get where I'm goin'.
-George Carlin
When Danica crashed she put her hands on her helmet so that the reaction force of the steering wheel would not break her hands.
Why don't they teach that technique in driver's ed?
My wife was honking the horn as she hit a lady who had for some reason decided to stop while crossing a highway to tend her grandchild, at night, in the rain. Compound fracture of the arm was the result. Out of work for three months. Never honk the horn.
My fingers still get crushed when I start moving.
What is with you Americans having to use these stupid units for everything? Is it that hard to say pi/6 and 5*pi/6 that everyone can understand?
They have their hands at 3 and 9 usually. That has the most control.
Professional crashers (yes, they exist) put their hands up at the sides of their head.
For the most control, you should sit close enough to the steering wheel that your shoulders remain against the seat. Sit upright, not leaning back. Make sure your legs are close enough that you can easily flatten the brake pedal to the floor.
Shorter-armed drivers should be careful, though. Sitting too close to an airbag is bad. 10 inches to the sternum is the minimum safe distance. Most of us drive easily farther away than that.
I always liked George Carlin's advice:
What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
Our driver's ed instructor about 20 years said 9 and 3, and specifically said NOT to follow the 10 and 2 advice. Good on him.
I suspect that this is a bigger problem in the US than elsewhere, as their airbags have to be so much more powerful than (for example) European ones as the manufacturers can't assume that you're wearing a seatbelt (a legal requirement in most of the civilised world).
Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it.
The last driver's safety course I took to lower my insurance premiums had already been updated on this news several years ago. Even Drivers Education classes in High School had already began to teach new methods.
If you're starting to drift in a skid, hand position is going to matter less than how fast you can turn the wheel against the rotation to catch it before you overrotate and go off the road sideways. Some positions might be a bit better than others, but it really depends on what the wheel angle is when your tires decide to let go. :p
I've been through a frontend crash "at speed" complete with airbag deployment. The car was a writeoff afterwards. The impact was right on the nose. I always drive with my seat well back (I have fairly long legs) and a tight seatbelt (if you're going to use it, use it correctly). The little Dodge (and airbag) died saving me from injury. I walked away with a slightly dislocated neck, compressed ribs, and a small burn on the back of one hand from the airbag. Some observations: Holding the wheel at 12 o'clock would have broken my arm. Holding the wheel at 10 and 2 would possibly have broken wrists or arms. Gripping at 9 would probably have damaged my left hand when it hit the door. I *only* hold the wheel at 4-5 and 7-8 (or one hand at 6 on long drives). That still allows me to put more force into the wheel than my wife can in any position. If you need the extra leverage you can apply by holding the wheel at 3 and 9, then you have done something very, very wrong (or worse, stupid). When I drive, I try to avoid doing anything stupid. (And since you have to know, don't ever, ever, assume that a car on the freeway is moving in the direction of traffic.)
Italy 1987, getting the driving license: my instructor told me to drive with hands at 9-3 and position the seat so that I can touch the top of the wheel with my wrist.
Italy 2004, a one day safe drive course: my driving instructor told me to drive with hands at 9-3.
The rationale of 9-3 has nothing to do with airbags. It is that you can steer the wheel more and faster than if you start at 10-2 (basic physics). The rationale of being close to the wheel is that with flexed harms you have a stronger grip than if your harms are fully stretched (basic physics again). But if you get too close you can't steer it much anyway, so touching it with the wrist gives a kind of optimal position.
Customary joke from Europe: maybe the 10-2 position is optimal for racing on ovals ;-)
A real American steers with his stomach. The burger wrapper sits on top of it.
This leaves both hands free for nutrition and texting.
however, we might first want to get most drivers to put the other hand on the wheel for a start, then worry about where o'clock they put them...
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
Modern ABS responds fantastically fast. All you feel is a pulsing brake pedal as the car quickly stops without skidding. My car is 5 years old. On the way home, I often engage ABS for fun, especially when about to pull into my driveway. Weeee!
Slam on the brakes and steer. That's what ABS are for. They almost always lead to shorter stopping distances than cars without ABS, and you can avoid the deer on the road.
Some cars now have a system that senses a panic stop and fully depresses the brake pedal to get the quickest stop. Drivers were not getting the most out of their brakes, leading to accidents.
Ahh they drive on the left in Japan too, so that explains the extensive history behind the Mitsubishi Lancer.
Yup, and this is why I wish there was mandatory re-training and testing for drivers every 10 years. And the testing should be progressively harder as you get older.
I learned 8 and 4 "shuffle feed" steering as part of an EVOC class taught by a police academy. It was pretty easy for me having learned driving in snow and ice, but there were sections that still took some work and I've been driving for 20 years. Some of the other people in the class could barely make it through a emergency stop J turn without plowing cones.
Here they disregard not only hand positions. They also disregard turn signals, turn lanes, stop signs, stop lights, speed limits, weather conditions, following distances, and the laws of physics in general.
For example, last week someone in the right hand lane attempted to make a left-handed U-turn while I was driving past them in the left hand lane. They were on their way to buy cigarettes - had they hit me (as they quite nearly did) I would have spared them dying of lung cancer and bludgeoned them to death in the road.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I drive the same way! I've already had children, so I don't really care about what happens when the airbag goes off.
We drive 10 to 2 because that's what Drivers Ed taught us. Its your responsibility to make sure the safety systems are designed properly.
Not our responsibility to adopt unusual or uncomfortable driving positions, because you can't be assed to find good designs for safety systems.
Air Bags suck, ban them, and mandate something safer.
Make the common way of driving safe.
There's a few potential problems with that comment.
Interesting to note, I've been told by numerous driving instructors and amateur racers (I used to be a poor amateur and don't know any pros) - they are often no better at stopping than simply stomping on the ABS in an emergency.
Let the ABS do its job. Learn how to handle having ABS, please. Learn to threshold brake by all means. And understand that when the idiot in the ute pulls out 15m (45ft) in front of you while you're driving along at 35mph (55kph) - there's a damn good chance you'll forget everything and slam your foot on the brake. When you do, be glad you have ABS.
I asked an actual school teacher about this recently, and kids still learn how to tell time with the big hand and the little hand, because there are still countless clocks in public places for which they'll need this skill.
And considering the abysmal grasp of geometry demonstrated by adults of all ages, I don't think that "hands at 30 degrees above the horizon" would be understood as clearly as "10 and 2 o'clock".
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Am I the only person on the planet that heard of Princess Diana? She was in a car crash. A bad one. 3 people inside were not wearing their seat belts. One was. Guess how many lived and which ones? I'll give you a hint. Everyone with a seatbelt on in that crash lived. Everyone without a seatbelt on died.
But no, there was some stink about paparazzi, but nothing about seat belts.
In fact, a well applied belt with an airbag is less likely to survive than a well applied belt and no airbag. Airbags only save people who have chosen to not save themselves.
Learn to love Alaska
Drivers, what's your approach?
Compile as modules, load dynamically ;-)
I don't normally respond to ACs, but you sound sincere, so... I'll take the chance. :)
How do you ensure presence of mind during an accident?
Um... By paying attention to the road? That has nothing to do with posture.
I've driven clear across the continent, east-west and north-south
Though "only" within the continental US - Ditto. Not impressive, just extremely boring.
I don't know if it's saved me from any accidents, but after the few near misses I was glad my hands were already in an optimal position for maneuvering.
I've had a front tire blowout on the highway and kept control of the vehicle... Not because I had a death-grip on a particular pair of spots on the wheel, but because I reacted quickly and appropriately (let off the gas, didn't brake hard, and moved over to the far right ASAP). I've had my brakes fail, also on the highway, which I didn't notice until I attempted to take a left exit; Again, reacted quickly and appropriately, moved to the right as quickly as traffic allowed, and rolled to a stop. Not grip. Presence. Of. Mind.
If you have a real, identifiable medical condition, you might be excused.
Not looking for excuses, but the GP did specifically mention carpal tunnel. If I keep my wrists at certain angles, especially with a lot of vibration in whatever I need to hold (no, not a sex joke), my hands will literally go numb within a few minutes. Not hyperbole or whining.
That said, it doesn't really seem to make much difference - Reiterating my original point, your safety has far more to do with attending to the task at hand, than where you specifically put your hands on the wheel.
Wrong. Unless compared to ancient ABS systems, even professional race car drivers can't beat ABS. At best they can match it in a straight line, but when you add cornering or patchy grip, no driver can individually modulate 4 wheels like a modern 4 channel ABS can. So if the best you can do in ideal conditions is match the ABS, I'd say "ABS = shorter distance" is a reasonable claim.
"The Audi R8 GT3s at the Spa 24 hours last weekend had ABS. One car lost ABS whilst it was wet - instant 3 seconds slower per lap than the sister car."
"Two back to back races in May 2010: 1000km or Spa and 24h of Nurburgring. LMS and ALMS GT2 rules don't allow ABS, while the ADAC regulations for N24 do allow ABS. Hankook Farnbacher Racing entered both races with the same car (Ferrari F430 GTC). Even though they had only a week to prepare for the 24 hour race at Nordschleife, and the fact they don't use ABS for their regular races, Farnbacher team still opted to install ABS. By the way, they finished 2rd overall behind the works BMW team and first in their class."
"However, I'm not aware of any racing driver at any level (up to and including F1) who has asked for ABS to be removed from their car where the rules allow it to be fitted (there may be some but they are unusual even so). All other things being equal, a decent ABS system is a net benefit on any car be it road or race. Memorably, Senna's much-vaunted performance at a wet Donington was done with ABS and TC. As such Senna never considered it much of a performance; although as his rivals also had ABS and TC one can still see that the quality of the driver shone through the murk and spray such was his inherent superiority racing in the wet."
I remember that. It did get a little press. The bodyguard in the
front passenger seat was wearing a belt and lived. Everybody
else got a closed casket funeral.
more cowbell