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You're Driving All Wrong, Says NHTSA
antdude writes "This MSNBC Bottom Line story/article says that 'If you're a conscientious motorist who still does everything the way your driver's-ed instructor told you to, you're doing it all wrong. For decades, the standard instruction was that drivers should hold the steering wheel at the 10 and 2 positions, as envisioned on a clock. This, it turns out, is no longer the case. In fact, driving that way could cost you your arms or hands in particularly gruesome ways if your airbag deploys. Instead AAA, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and many driving instructors now say you should grip the wheel at 9 and 3 o'clock. A few go even further, suggesting 8 and 4 to avoid the airbag mechanism as much as possible, but what formal research has been published on the varieties of hand positions suggests that this may lessen your control of the car.'" I usually hold even lower on the wheel, perhaps 4:30 and 7:30, but I also drive with my seat pushed farther forward than most people like. Drivers, what's your approach?
... like a boss.
I let my wife drive. I need my hands to hold my beer.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Prosthetic arms and hands, you insensitive clod!
Didn't mythbusters disprove this finger myth years ago?
Is what most professional race drivers have done for decades, for several reasons.
How many of s stick our elbow out the window and do a 9ish position 1/2 the time?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
My father taught me 9 and 3, and for the most part that's what I've always used just because it worked for me. I never had any desire to do anything else. Never took any lessons, so nobody told me otherwise.
I drive coaches, busses and cars...
I personally hold my hands like this;
Coach/Bus: Left hand on the money tray, RIght hand at 2
Car: Left hand on gear stick (yes... in the real world we drive manuals...) and right hand at 2
Driving with 2 hands on the wheel seems unnatural to me unless i'm flooring it... as I drive really relaxed...
Use your knees. "Experts" are buncha idiots.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
Left elbow out the window, steering wheel held by hanging thumb on steering wheel spoke. Right hand either: manipulating some text messaging device, hanging over back of bench seat or trying to slip up the skirt of some babe sitting next to me.
Front seat passengers should place feet up on the dashboard immediately on top of passenger airbag deployment panel to ensure major foot/leg injuries in the event of deployment.
Have gnu, will travel.
My clocks have numbers, not hands.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
... but when I'm feeling lazy, one handed at about 1:30.
I use 8 and 4 o'clock positions, but I think it's mostly because I'm lazy and don't want to hold up my arms for very long.
~S
I had my hands at roughly 9 and 3 when it did; all I got from the airbag were some friction burns on my right arm and a good snort of stuff I'd have rather not breathed.
Trying to specify any particular exact hand position given the variety of people, steering wheels, and driving positions seems pointless.
And performance driving instructors have been advocating push-pull steering (rather than hand-over-hand) for a very long time. Not because of the airbag, but because it provides better control. Whether it makes a difference on the road or in the mall parking lot I doubt.
I sit so far back from the wheel that it would not do me any good anyway, and the collision threshold is typically set so low that the airbag actually presents a greater threat than is justifiable. In a low-speed collision where the car does not come to a stop, it might still be necessary to control the vehicle afterwards. If your arms have been blown off the steering wheel and possibly broken/severed by it, that's not possible, and can lead to secondary, even more injurious collisions.
I know this because I was involved in just such a collision (with a deer) where the airbag caused me to lose control of my vehicle, and my arms were broken so badly I could not turn the wheel to avoid having a second, must worse collision (with a tree), which killed my wife and 4 year old son, and left me paralyzed from the waist down.
They told me my son was killed instantly, and it took my wife 8 days to pass away in intensive care. I did not wake up from my coma until day 9. That was the worst day of my life.
Being without arms, and a right leg; I use my nose.
One hand at 8 or 4 o'clock, one hand around cell phone
Left hand at six o'clock and the other on the gear stick. That takes care of carpal tunnel issues.
I solve this problem by having a chauffeur :-)
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
My friend says that everyone would drive a whole lot more safely if there was a huge, sharp metal spike on the steering wheel that was pointed toward the driver's chest. I think he might be right.
Index finger and Thumb at the 7 o'clock position
Drive with your knees. It keeps your hands free for the important things like texting and eating.
Now, a few basic points about driving. One of the first things they teach you in Driver's Ed is where to put your hands on the steering wheel. They tell you put 'em at ten o'clock and two o'clock. Never mind that. I put mine at 9:45 and 2:17. Gives me an extra half hour to get where I'm goin'.
-George Carlin
Knee at 5:45. Left hand holding the burger wrapper like a plate. Right hand holding the burger.
I've been driving that way since the 1970's shortly after passing my first driving test. It was the recommendation of the folks at a local race school (admittedly I took the motorcycle not the driving course, but it came up in passing). I've been doing it so long I had to dredge up any memory of other advice.
It's taken NHTSA THIS long to fix an obvious blunder (especially since the mandate of airbags?) wow.
Pity we're not allowed to opt for 5 point harnesses. Safer than the crappy "automatic" belts and airbags (ever watch a race car accident?). Yes, a little more work to adjust, but far safer. Sadly, thanks to the pointy heads in Washington we're not allowed to opt for them as a factory option.
When Danica crashed she put her hands on her helmet so that the reaction force of the steering wheel would not break her hands.
Why don't they teach that technique in driver's ed?
I keep my steering wheel high, and just keep one hand comfortably on the bottom unless I'm actively turning or in tricky traffic requiring lots of lane changes.
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
My wife was honking the horn as she hit a lady who had for some reason decided to stop while crossing a highway to tend her grandchild, at night, in the rain. Compound fracture of the arm was the result. Out of work for three months. Never honk the horn.
My fingers still get crushed when I start moving.
... for cruising. If I need extra control, I'm still in the habit of 10:00 and 2:00. Honestly, I'd rather my arms or hands be hurt in a crash than my head crack the windshield or my ribcage break apart on the steering wheel, so I'll keep the airbags. (A seatbelt, while important to keep from flying out of the car and getting personal with the pavement, doesn't provide great protection against smashing against hard objects within the car.) My hands are softer than the steering wheel; if something's going to hit my face, I prefer the former over the latter.
Left hand, 6 o'clock and the other on my smart phone/radio/environmental controls/turn signal/food or joy stick.
Left elbow on door armrest, holding steering wheel if cruising. Add right hand at 2 if maneuvering.
I come from New Zealand, which is a British Commonwealth country. We drive on the left side of the road.
(it dates back to the days (and knights) of old, when a rider would want to meet an approaching rider on his right side where he could use his sword (or lance) if necessary.
And when I learned to drive, it was at a quarter to 3, and the left foot was for the clutch.
lolwut?
What is with you Americans having to use these stupid units for everything? Is it that hard to say pi/6 and 5*pi/6 that everyone can understand?
They have their hands at 3 and 9 usually. That has the most control.
Professional crashers (yes, they exist) put their hands up at the sides of their head.
For the most control, you should sit close enough to the steering wheel that your shoulders remain against the seat. Sit upright, not leaning back. Make sure your legs are close enough that you can easily flatten the brake pedal to the floor.
Shorter-armed drivers should be careful, though. Sitting too close to an airbag is bad. 10 inches to the sternum is the minimum safe distance. Most of us drive easily farther away than that.
From what I understand, European airbags are typically less powerful than US airbags - because we tend to wear seatbelts, so the airbag has less to do.
I always liked George Carlin's advice:
What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
it's the only way to drive.
Our driver's ed instructor about 20 years said 9 and 3, and specifically said NOT to follow the 10 and 2 advice. Good on him.
I suspect that this is a bigger problem in the US than elsewhere, as their airbags have to be so much more powerful than (for example) European ones as the manufacturers can't assume that you're wearing a seatbelt (a legal requirement in most of the civilised world).
Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it.
The last driver's safety course I took to lower my insurance premiums had already been updated on this news several years ago. Even Drivers Education classes in High School had already began to teach new methods.
One hand holding a cigarette and the other hand holding a cell phone. I learned to drive from a New York taxi.
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If you're starting to drift in a skid, hand position is going to matter less than how fast you can turn the wheel against the rotation to catch it before you overrotate and go off the road sideways. Some positions might be a bit better than others, but it really depends on what the wheel angle is when your tires decide to let go. :p
This is another troubling outcome of trying to alter the optimum behavior for control to accommodate for over-done safety or security. Maybe the intensity of the airbag or placement can be modified so that the optimal place for controlling the wheel is still used?
Surely the government wouldn't mandate an over achieving potentially harmful design in the name of security would they?
-Xen
You should never be able to straighten your arms when holding your steering wheel... EVER. If you crash you want slightly bent arms so that the impact doesnt cause your arm bones to shatter.
If you must push your seat back (long legs), then adjust the steering wheel and pull it closer to you (assuming you have an adjustable steering wheel).
9-3 for me. I learned 10-2 but it's uncomfortable. I've got long legs so I need to rack the seat back all the way to be comfortable on the pedals, so 9-3 is about the best spot to be for holding the wheel.
I do think that any lower than 9-3 is dangerous, since it won't let you react very quickly since your hands are in a position where you have to think about what you're doing instead of just having things happen on reflex.
There is no sig...
Right elbow on window sill / hanging out window, with wheel spoke between right thumb and forefinger, and wheel between forefinger and middle finger. Seems natural and comfortable. Left hand goes where it pleases, which is generally on the gear stick. Though it does like to wander on occasion. Both hands usually hold the wheel at 9 and 3 with thumbs resting on the top of the spokes when driving fast down country lanes.
...so does that mean if the airbag deploys, I'll end up punching myself in the face?
I'm surprised MSNBC picked up on this advice, it's only been around for a decade or two. Usually they aren't that quick on the uptake.
why should I listen to a government organization that thinks my GPS should not have a moving map - it's laughable....
I've been through a frontend crash "at speed" complete with airbag deployment. The car was a writeoff afterwards. The impact was right on the nose. I always drive with my seat well back (I have fairly long legs) and a tight seatbelt (if you're going to use it, use it correctly). The little Dodge (and airbag) died saving me from injury. I walked away with a slightly dislocated neck, compressed ribs, and a small burn on the back of one hand from the airbag. Some observations: Holding the wheel at 12 o'clock would have broken my arm. Holding the wheel at 10 and 2 would possibly have broken wrists or arms. Gripping at 9 would probably have damaged my left hand when it hit the door. I *only* hold the wheel at 4-5 and 7-8 (or one hand at 6 on long drives). That still allows me to put more force into the wheel than my wife can in any position. If you need the extra leverage you can apply by holding the wheel at 3 and 9, then you have done something very, very wrong (or worse, stupid). When I drive, I try to avoid doing anything stupid. (And since you have to know, don't ever, ever, assume that a car on the freeway is moving in the direction of traffic.)
One of my first cars was a HR Holden, one hand on the wheel, the other on the gearstick to stop it popping out of thitd gear.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I drive a 40-year-old car. Holding my hands in a certain position is the least of my problems, but usually they are at 9 and 3 because the steering wheel spokes are at 10 and 2 and each hand ends up an hour off when you hook your thumb. With +3 wheel fitment and no power steering, you have to hold on!
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
You lay your seat all the way down, so you can almost see the road through the steering wheel and dashboard. then you lean in towards the center of the car.
Nod your head a lot and stare at people that dare to look at you.
you are even safer if you cant see any roadway at all, lean that seat even farther back.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Cruising on the freeway like you own it, because you do.
and wear the belt/shoulder harness. I know two people
that totaled full size American pick-ups in collisions
with trees (the both swear it was the tree's fault). One
got a broken kneck from the airbag. The other was
unscathed; the truck was built before airbags were
required in pick-ups.
A fire captain told me that he had never seen a dead
body in a car accident with a person wearing the
belt/should harness. He'd seen a lot of dead bodies in car
accidents where deceased had no belts on.
more cowbell
Italy 1987, getting the driving license: my instructor told me to drive with hands at 9-3 and position the seat so that I can touch the top of the wheel with my wrist.
Italy 2004, a one day safe drive course: my driving instructor told me to drive with hands at 9-3.
The rationale of 9-3 has nothing to do with airbags. It is that you can steer the wheel more and faster than if you start at 10-2 (basic physics). The rationale of being close to the wheel is that with flexed harms you have a stronger grip than if your harms are fully stretched (basic physics again). But if you get too close you can't steer it much anyway, so touching it with the wrist gives a kind of optimal position.
Customary joke from Europe: maybe the 10-2 position is optimal for racing on ovals ;-)
I simply let go of the wheel just before every accident
If everyone wore their seatbelts the government admits that we wouldn't need airbags. The advice to move our hands on the steering wheel is an admission that airbags are dangerous. How about we make ourselves safer and save some money and give up on airbags.
Airbags are indeed dangerous. It's a fscking bomb right in front of your face, and when it goes off there's a good chance that it will break your nose and give you one hell of a black eye. In certain types of impact they do more harm than good.
Of course, hitting your head on the steering wheel or side pillar at high speed is going to shatter your skull, so i'll take the airbag thanks. And seatbelts are compulsory over here (Australia) so our airbags work better. When you aren't wearing a seatbelt then your nose is going to be a lot closer to the steering wheel / dashboard when the airbag goes off!
So I determined that where I hold the steering wheel depends on what I'm doing.
In moderate highway traffic I drive 8 and 4 where my hands are in the best position to micromanage the cruise control. (I prefer driving with my hands to my feat when I can, drives my wife crazy)
In very light or stop and go highway traffic, or inner city roads that are straight, I typically drive with my left hand on the arm rest and my right hand at 3.
When I'm driving one handed as above and need to turn or switch lanes, or on twisty roads, I drive with my hands on 9 and 3.
I'm trying to wrap my brain around the need to sit on the right side of the vehicle to hold the lance out the window. I know early British electric systems weren't all that reliable (Lucas - "Prince of Darkness" electrics) but couldn't you have come up with something less, shall we say, phallic, for a warning system?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
also keep the thumbs pointing outwards so you still have them when the airbag fires
Open Source Alternatives
A real American steers with his stomach. The burger wrapper sits on top of it.
This leaves both hands free for nutrition and texting.
I always find myself holding the wheel with one hand, my right, crossed over to around 11. My left SOME-times holds the bottom. I'd give myself a knuckle-sammich if the airbag went off, wouldn't I?
You want to know how to help your kids? LEAVE THEM THE F*&K ALONE. --George Carlin
Doesn't anyone else use a non symmetric two handed hold? I often use 2 and 9 or even 1 and 9. Lets me rest the left arm on the window sill.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
I use both of my hands to hold the book I am reading and my left knee/leg to hold the wheel. Don't worry, I don't text or use a cell phone while driving.
Of all that we do wrong while driving, I find that to be much less significant from a safety standpoint than the following: driving while distracted, including talking on the phone, texting, tuning the radio, navigating, etc battling with the other occupants in the car (my kids?) forgetting there are others on the road (really, some drivers seem totally oblivious) driving while impaired or devoting less than required concentration to the task at hand (tired, drunk, daydreaming or otherwise, I too have been guilty being to tired to drive) Failure to follow even the simplest of rules/courtesies of the road: Stay right except to pass, speed up to merge, signal your intentions, go, don't dally, be aware of what's around you, slower traffic keep right- please for the the love of ones deity keep right- nothing is more irksome than to happen upon a solitary driver who merges at 20mph less than mean speed of traffic and heads straight to the leftmost lane to hold up all of the traffic they can. One more, if I could carry a cannon on the front of my car that would fire one round, it would be meant for the ass parked in the leftmost lane holding up traffic for miles refusing to yield to faster traffic! Move the fuck over! Better yet give me the keys to your car and your license to drive- their confiscated forever, no soup for you. Oh BTW, my steering wheel cannot be properly held at 9 and 3, it has spokes at 3,6, and 9. Same for my wife's car.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
No, not THAT knob, the big fist sized knob on the wheel of my forklift
Three Squirrels
You got that right. Can you believe they teach new drivers in America to step as hard as you can on the brakes and let ABS work. Wrong, wrong wrong. If ABS has engaged, one should release pressure until just below threshold. Also stopping straight ahead (if possible) would decrease distance.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
That only works for people who professionally drive cars. Somebody who just commutes to work isn't going to be in the right state of mind for precisely pressing the brake pedal when they suddenly realize they must brake NOW.
in my 68 Dodge Dart you insensitive clod. There, fixed that for ya.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
Or at least that's my suspicion. In my own driver's ed course in the mid 1990's, at least, we were taught 9 & 3.
Yes, they call them panic stops for a reason. But, I'd argue that, generally, drivers are woefully undereducated and we need to raise the bar a bit...JMHO.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
Now car companies have an out when their airbag kills me.
however, we might first want to get most drivers to put the other hand on the wheel for a start, then worry about where o'clock they put them...
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
A conscientious driver might not be the type to get into accidents that would cause the air bag to deploy anyway?
That said... left knee on the 7 o'clock position all the way!
I wouldn't be so quick to lump them into "professional" drivers -- anyone with enough practice can learn how to threshold brake. The more in-depth driving courses force students to practice it quite a few times so that hopefully it becomes second nature and you don't have to be in the right state of mind, you just do it naturally.
Modern ABS responds fantastically fast. All you feel is a pulsing brake pedal as the car quickly stops without skidding. My car is 5 years old. On the way home, I often engage ABS for fun, especially when about to pull into my driveway. Weeee!
Slam on the brakes and steer. That's what ABS are for. They almost always lead to shorter stopping distances than cars without ABS, and you can avoid the deer on the road.
Some cars now have a system that senses a panic stop and fully depresses the brake pedal to get the quickest stop. Drivers were not getting the most out of their brakes, leading to accidents.
I use a suicide knob to steer with. Driving an 18 wheeler means I dont care what I am doing, I am always watching out for you idiots that think they know how to drive.
"Remember, politicians and diapers should be changed often and for the same reason."
Ahh they drive on the left in Japan too, so that explains the extensive history behind the Mitsubishi Lancer.
ABS does not shorten braking distance, as many people think. It often makes braking distance longer (compared to proper braking), like described by the previous poster.
Goal of ABS is to provide control while braking - ability to turn the car and avoid an obstacle. Without ABS you need to release the brake to restore control, which is not something people without training would do.
Given the choice of "just shorten braking distance" and "allow people to brake/control car instead of spinning it" the latter is probably the lesser evil.
Forget that. I drive with my hand on the knob.
(Naturally, my steering wheel and car are way cooler than that picture) : P
blog
Trying to get this right in panic situation is tough. Unless you have practiced enough, which I doubt, you would be better off flooring the breaks.
Here they disregard not only hand positions. They also disregard turn signals, turn lanes, stop signs, stop lights, speed limits, weather conditions, following distances, and the laws of physics in general.
For example, last week someone in the right hand lane attempted to make a left-handed U-turn while I was driving past them in the left hand lane. They were on their way to buy cigarettes - had they hit me (as they quite nearly did) I would have spared them dying of lung cancer and bludgeoned them to death in the road.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I drive the same way! I've already had children, so I don't really care about what happens when the airbag goes off.
We drive 10 to 2 because that's what Drivers Ed taught us. Its your responsibility to make sure the safety systems are designed properly.
Not our responsibility to adopt unusual or uncomfortable driving positions, because you can't be assed to find good designs for safety systems.
Air Bags suck, ban them, and mandate something safer.
Make the common way of driving safe.
Yeah, ok. The only problem with this argument is that no human being is able to keep so near the treshold as you want.
In the real world a person will either break too lightly or use the ABS, so at best there will be no difference from just slamming on the pedal.
Rethinking email
you insensitive clod!
http://www.acetonestudio.com
...was 9 and 3. The way I still drive. Another thing: THUMBS OUT. Steering wheels, particularly on commercial vehicles, have the potential to rip your thumbs off in normal operation if you wrap them inside the wheel.
Furries make the internet go.
Oooh, the topic is driving? *steps on soapbox
Who cares where your hands are? There is one rule of safe driving that should always be mentioned b/c it sums everything up:
You must pay enough attention.
That's it. If you drive with with your pinky toe and avoid all accidents, then that's safer than 10/pi and accident-prone. And yes, you can avoid almost all accidents by paying attention. I've twice gotten out of the way when stopped and the car behind me almost plowed through me because I was watching the rear-view mirror. I've avoided a drunk(?) driver running through the light when I had the green arrow b/c I was watching him. 23 years of driving more 'dangerously' than 99% of you, and just one $600 accident. Why? I stopped paying attention (rule #2: don't get bored & start programming your radio when it's icey).
While I'm up here, I have a message to you bottleneckers: quit it! In fact, do the opposite. If the accident is on the other side of the freeway, quit looking and freakin gun it! If everyone were to gun it AT the bottleneck, guess what, there would no longer be a bottleneck!
Read about the waves:
http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-and-safety-guideline/traffic-jams.html
One reason not mentioned is that waves happen because stopping/slowing down is faster than speeding up, if you're lazy. I like to drive through the waves without touching the brakes, but flooring it when I'm at the front of the wave or bottleneck, and I save gas (net) doing it. If everyone (or even a % of us) were to leave space before the wave, then gun it at the front, the wave goes away! The 'gun it' part isn't mentioned in the article, but it makes sense to me. And don't get me wrong, don't gun it so much that you have to hit the brake to not hit the car in front of you, but gun it as much as possible. Also, keep an eye on the traffic colors of your GPS, so you know when your at the front of the wave, if it's that big.
Hrm, there ought to be a 'kill the waves' day to spread awareness.
I'm sure it made sense way back in the mists of time when people used mechanical clocks and watches, but these days just an angle from the horizontal is probably a great deal more comprehensible to the average, non-boomer person.
When I'm on the road, I keep one hand firmly on each handlebar, my fingers lightly gripping both brake levers. If I need to use a hand for something else, I keep my right hand in place, because that's the one that operates the throttle on my motorscooter.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
There's a few potential problems with that comment.
Interesting to note, I've been told by numerous driving instructors and amateur racers (I used to be a poor amateur and don't know any pros) - they are often no better at stopping than simply stomping on the ABS in an emergency.
Let the ABS do its job. Learn how to handle having ABS, please. Learn to threshold brake by all means. And understand that when the idiot in the ute pulls out 15m (45ft) in front of you while you're driving along at 35mph (55kph) - there's a damn good chance you'll forget everything and slam your foot on the brake. When you do, be glad you have ABS.
7:30 o' clock, arm resting on my left thigh.
I asked an actual school teacher about this recently, and kids still learn how to tell time with the big hand and the little hand, because there are still countless clocks in public places for which they'll need this skill.
And considering the abysmal grasp of geometry demonstrated by adults of all ages, I don't think that "hands at 30 degrees above the horizon" would be understood as clearly as "10 and 2 o'clock".
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
This is just plain bad advice. How much additional stopping distance will you get with even an expert application of threshold braking(which 99% of the population will never achieve)? The risk you run with improper threshold braking is you increase your stopping distance over what you would get with ABS. Stomping with ABS works the same on any car with ABS, requires no practice, and is instinctive. Threshold braking requires specific practice to be effective, practice that most people in the real world will never do, and needs to be recalibrated depending on the road, the conditions, the wear of the tires and brake pads. It's totally inappropriate to suggest that most people, who approach driving a car like using an appliance, should try to use an expert technique that will cause problems when improperly applied.
I learned to drive around 2002 in Wisconsin. The instructor there taught us to hold it at 9 and 3, and to keep our thumbs on the outside of the wheel (to avoid ripping them off in a crash). At least some places have been teaching it right for years.
Hand resting on my knee, thumb and forefinger holding the steering wheel at about 5 o'clock. I got power steering, I don't need two hands on the wheel, I need only two fingers.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
I usually hold even lower on the wheel, perhaps 4:30 and 7:30, but I also drive with my seat pushed farther forward than most people like.
sure, your arms are safe, but what about your face?
It is to stop your head from flopping around after the seatbelt stops the rest of your body from lurching forward. That's why they have HANS devices in race cars.
Drive in such a manner that you don't hit stuff.
Be sufficiently aware of the world around you that other stuff doesn't hit you
Hold the wheel whereever you please.
What I want to know is where to place my knees on the steering wheel while I am texting and operating my Sat Nav or DVD player.
Drivers, what's your approach?
Compile as modules, load dynamically ;-)
Except in hazardous conditions such as heavy rain or snow, I've always driven with only one hand. Positioning depends on whatever's comfortable at the moment. Sometimes I use both hands to make turns but they aren't holding the wheel at the same time.
I'm not sure a driver's wheel airbags has any utility for a driver who wears a proper seatbelt.
Me? I drive with my right hand on the loop-style yoke, and the left one on the throttle. Though I do need to shift the left to the yoke and the right to the gear lever after takeoff for a few seconds in the Hawker Hurricane I see myself flying in my daydreams while I'm driving.
DaveyJJ
Fuck that, you try controlling a car on the limit with straight arms. I guarantee that you will be pulling yourself forward off the seat as you run out of reach at the top of the wheel. Go look at ANY race car drivers arms and then find me one that has been impaled by the wheel. What a terrible recommendation.
1) Airbag provides only an additional 5% safety efficacy from fatality over a 3-point seatbelt
2) Severe disfiguring and disabling injury from auto accidents now come from airbag deployments
3) Airbags were never designed for use in conjunction with seatbelts
So...you finance over 5+ years a safety device which at best works as intended in 5% accident situations. 95% accident situations expensive safety device can easily main, disfigure and disable you. 100% of the time seatbelts are redundant safety system. Yeah...you're paying for those over the life of your loan too.
I know that our local high school driver's ed has been instructing students on the new locations for at least 4-5 years.
-Styopa
The more I hear about them, the more I think I ought to have the airbags disabled in my car. I've tried driving using the hand positions discussed in the article, because this is what they said my kid, who's learning to drive, should do. I feel much more in control of the vehicle with my hands at 10 and 2, and the push-pull technique is just inadequate for any situation requiring handling skills.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
...or, and here's a novel idea, you could pick a technique appropriate to the kind of driving you're doing.
10-2 is nice for long highway driving, since it takes a lot of the weight of my arms off of my shoulders.
9-3 is great on the track, since it gives me a greater range of motion, and gives me more feedback through the wheel. it also places my hands in the perfect position for the paddle shifters.
8-4 I've actually found quite nice in the rain or snow, when traction is reduced, since it lets me drift and fish-tail with greater control when tires slip.
And for comfortable city driving, 10-5 is definitely the way to go. Of course, at those speeds, it really doesn't matter. So leaving my right arm free to shift from the floor, and raising my left arm's elbow to reach the window sill is more important as it reduces stress and focus -- two things which increase road rage and decrease comfort.
The article misses one of the more important tips -- thumb placement, or how to actually grip the steering wheel.
Practically everyone today DOES wear safety belts as far as I can see. Given the damage airbags can do, they probably should be rigged not to deploy at all if the seat belt is fastened.
I remember that. It did get a little press. The bodyguard in the
front passenger seat was wearing a belt and lived. Everybody
else got a closed casket funeral.
more cowbell
It seems to me that the 10 and 2 thing probably derives from a time when cars did not have power steering or even when power steering was less effective than it often is now. We're not *quite* to steer-by-wire yet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering#Steer-by-wire
but there has been a continuous evolution from steering-as-force to steering-as-information-input (at least for most ordinary street vehicles).
The reasons for drilling the 10 and 2 thing into people may be mostly irrelevant in many of today's vehicles, which explains why the dangers of the airbag may now overwhelm any other consideration.
G.
and drive with my feet on the wheel. (I have a pet monkey push the pedals)
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Hmm... I said "almost straight" which I fail to see as being different than your "slightly bent", so we must be in agreement. The summary said he has his "seat pushed farther forward than most people like", which - if too far forward - could result in him either getting impaled by the steering wheel (before the air bag fully inflates) or having is neck broken by the air bag. It has been documented that short drivers, than pull their seat very far forward are in such dangers.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I'm pretty sure race-car drivers use multi-point restraints and don't have air bags in their vehicles. In addition, I said "almost straight" - to give enough distance for proper air bad inflation. The summary said he has his "seat pushed farther forward than most people like", which - if too far forward - could result in him either getting impaled by the steering wheel (before the air bag fully inflates) or having is neck broken by the air bag. It has been documented that short drivers, than pull their seat very far forward are in such dangers.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I guess I'm in the minority, but I knew this long before I ever got a driver's license. My dad crashed cars for a living, and it's just how airbags work. Seat as far back as you can have it while still reaching the controls, and if you're about to crash, let go of the wheel so the airbag doesn't break your arms. I drive a manual car with no air bags, and I drive either left hand at 12, or left hand at 7. Don't knock it, I've been driving for ten years and never crashed once. Comfort and ability to maneuver are more important than where your hands are when the air bag deploys.
It saves gas and has the added bonus of being cool as shit.
I spend most of my time driving NOT crashing. I'd worry less about where my hands are after a crash and more on where to place my hands to give me the best control of the vehicle so as to AVOID crashing. That might easily be tested in simulators. If I were a betting man, I'd place money more on 10-2 than 6:30-5:30.
Keep Doing Good.
Researchers have determined that the risk zone for driver airbags is the first 2 to 3 inches (5 to 8 cm) of inflation. So, placing yourself 10 inches (25 cm) from your driver airbag gives you a clear margin of safety. Measure this distance from the center of the steering wheel to your breastbone.
Or, http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199807093390219:
A limitation of our study is that the new regulation defines the safe distance as 10 in. (25 cm) from the breastbone to the steering wheel.
or, http://www.wikihow.com/Adjust-Seating-to-the-Proper-Position-While-Driving
Distance from the wheel: There should be a minimal clearance of 10" (and preferably 30cm) between the center of the steering hub and the base of the breastbone (sternum). It should also not be further away that 45cm.
For me and my height, that results in *almost* (but not completely) straight arms in addition to being able to control the pedals properly - not too straight or bent - either is problematic in an accident. Other pages document an ideal arm bend of 120 degrees.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I keep the left elbow indexed on the inside door handle to give the steering wheel some stability when I'm glancing on the sides or behind for lane changes, the left hand ends up around 9:00. The right hand is at around 2:00 with the right elbow in elevated. This works fine for shorter rides, on multi-hour drives my left elbow gets raw, so I'll move it off the inside door handle when I start feeling some discomfort there.
Yes, you do have a point about 4+ point restraints being superior, however IIRC from crash test videos, even a three point belt prevents your torso from travelling forward much.
Isn't the point of 10 and 2 to give you more control , so you don't get in wreck?
Or is the government saying , well your too stupid and you will get in wreck , so put your hands so they don't get hurt. Wonder where race car drivers put there hands.
1 thumb at 6 o'clock, maybe 5:30. The other one is resting on the arm rest.
I had a head on at about 35. I saw it coming and had death grip on the wheel. The air bag did hit my arms, felt like they were slapped with a 2x4. Left bruises. However... they are still firmly attached to my body and at no point did I feel them trying to leave me lol. In fact, the force wasn't even enough to make me lose my grip or bend my elbows. It was just a slap, not a firm force.
I don't understand any of this. Can someone give me a computer science analogy for this car problem? It always seems to work so well the other way around right?
I want this account deleted.
they taught us to use 9 and 3 or 8 and 4, whichever we prefer. I usually drive with right hand at 2 or 4, but when I turn, am driving in a narrow lane, etc. I'll drive with both hands.
I don't really give a lot of weight to what they taught at driver's ed. It seemed like they were only interested in turning us into as cautious drivers as they possibly could, nevermind congestion. e.g., they said we should have at least a car's length between the next car when stopped in traffic. I'd hate to see everyone do that at a busy intersection! Another one, from my sister: How many seconds should you have between you and the car in front of you while on the freeway? 10 seconds.
You know what I wish they would have told me? To mind when I'm going slower than surrounding traffic and holding people up, and then to either speed up or move to the slow lane. I learned that one on my own.
There was at least one part of driver's ed I enjoyed though. The teacher told us of a kid who was on a drive with his instructor. He was going down the highway, when a bunny moved onto the road some ways ahead. The kid asked his instructor what he should do, to which he replied, "You're just gonna have to hit it." The kid was a bit nervous, but aknowledged it. Fortunately, the bunny ended up hopping to the side of the road before they reached it. However, not wanting to disobey his instructor, the kid swerves off the road and hits the bunny. It took us a good 5-10 minutes to stop laughing... I guess the instructor should've been more specific!
Anybody want a peanut?
What we should do is teach people not to crash. Really, most accidents are avoidable with a little training and a lot of "paying attention."
I had a situation last May where I was surprised by an unusually long line of stopped cars in a backup on an interstate. It was 5 to midnight, I was still going 65 mph, and I didn't see the car stopped in the road until it was visible in my low beam headlights. Had I been one of the "jam the brakes and scream" people, I'd have probably hit the other car at 64 mph, they'd be dead, I'd be dead, end of story. But my first reaction, born of early-life racing experience about 50 years ago, was, "I AM GOING TO AVOID THIS" and I did, by turning the wheel hard left into the next lane. My standard practice of not allowing anyone to drive beside me ensured there was no one else there to hit, and all I did was cause deep scratches in the right side of my car as well as removing the right outside mirror. That is what proper reaction will do, as compared to an air bag that would likely have busted me all up and STILL killed the 3 ladies in the stopped car. We could use some serious driver training that goes a lot farther than "Slow down and live" and "don't drink and drive."
On pavement, modern ABS releases the wheels which are approaching lockup, basically doing theshold braking for you. It's not the same as pumping your brakes. The car knows when a wheel has lost or is about to loose static traction so not only is it doing the threshold braking for you, it is doing it better then you can. Especially in a panic situation.
120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
On those occasions where I drive with both hands on the wheel, I go a high/low approach. Generally about 4:30 & 10:30.
Seriously though, I think I've been at 9 and 3 for most of the 20 years I've been driving. It's somewhat more comfortable, especially when you're doing 3000 miles cross country. If I'm shifting a lot, it'll be 9 and shifter. That's pretty comfortable too.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
We bring personal devices to the company network, install screensavers and cool programs from the internet and write our passwords down to post-its on our screen because it's convenient! Don't tell us "You're doing it wrong" when it's YOUR responsibility to come up with good designs that accommodate to our every desire while keeping us perfectly safe!
I was in a driving safety training a few years back. The instructor noticed I put my hands in the "react quickly" position when approaching the machine that yanked the hind wheels into a slip, while I relaxed immediately afterwards.
He said: How are you going to react to a sudden slip in real life if you're driving in that laid-back position?
My reaction to that is: We'll I'd be dead tired after the first half hour of driving in the super-tense position. I'd probably not react at all. Driving is all about managing your abilities. You're able to concentrate 100% for a certain amount of time. If you try to keep 100% concentrated all the time, you'll be too worn down by the time something interesting happens. As long as the "relaxed" pose and state-of-mind is able to recognize the interesting parts in advance, it pays off to be relaxed when you can and focus your attention on the interestings parts.
> Wrong. Unless compared to ancient ABS systems,
> even professional race car drivers can't beat ABS.
For braking they can. I've driven with race drivers and when asked they show how ABS goes haywire when it can't properly "guess" parameters, and how it can bork your attempt at braking or avoiding obstacle. Worst part is that you can't control it - when you go through the course most of the time it will guess right, but a few times in the same conditions it will do surprisingly bad. I am talking about ABS installed in production cars, not racing systems.
As far as beating ABS goes even I can show how to beat it easily on icy surface. ABS will keep wheels unlocked forever because they keep blocking. Slamming on brakes without ABS and keeping wheels locked is more effective here. Tested on a professional course.
Taking quote from the same forum you did:
ChrisTipper: "when Prost drove with it he said it made the car still unstable and unprediable underbraking in the wet."
> "...The Audi R8 GT3s..."
You can't compare sport systems to what we drive. Audi R8 has "race ABS and minutely adjustable traction control (ASR)".
Also reply to this post on forum you quoted was:
"Not sure what your point is. The BMW also raced at Spa 1000km and N24 and used ABS for the N24 only."
> "...Ferrari F430 GTC..."
Again, racing quality ABS and traction control. Not your run-of-the-mill ABS-only car.
> "decent ABS system is a net benefit on any car be it road or race"
Exactly!
This quote does NOT say that ABS will _SHORTEN_ braking distance, it says it will benefit. I wrote that ABS provides benefits, and the main one is in fact having more control over the car. Your quote does not contradict that, just supports me :-)
> no driver can individually modulate 4 wheels like a
> modern 4 channel ABS can.
Here you write about traction control aka electronic stability control (ESP) rather than ABS. You are absolutely right that driver can't do that. Those features will help to keep control when car begins to skid after turning wheel, not only while braking. Again - keep control, save car from spinning, give driver a better chance to avoid an obstacle. Not just brake in a straight line.
PS: to make sure we attribute - all your quotes are from F1 Technical forum, posted there by users ubrben, Patrickl, Pandamasque and others.
If you're ever in an accident where an air-bag sees fit to deploy, you're already in trouble - probably trouble that belt alone won't ever save you (especially "low and snug" - it's your shoulder that matters not the lap-belt, which just cuts you in half). In that kind of accident, it's a choice of the lesser of two evils. Broken nose, possible unconsciousness, and damage to any extremities in the way is the BETTER trade-off should it deploy correctly.
If your head is flung far enough forward to contact solid matter (which isn't difficult in a collision), the airbag will hurt you - of course it will - but with a certainty much less than the steering wheel would have.
My first thoughts on reading the article were: You know what? If my airbag goes off, the location of my hands on the steering wheel won't matter one iota compared to having kept the car straight / out of trouble in the first place. By the time the bag deploys, I've already lost control, hit something solid that I couldn't avoid and have no further control of the vehicle anyway and likely my legs are going to get crushed first by the engine being thrust into them. What happens to my arms? Who cares? I'd be more worried about my brains at that point, and puncture wounds from the steering column.
You have to *REALLY* go some to deploy an airbag, beyond even the strongest brake your car is capable of (which is already enough to throw rear-passenger adults into the front seat and crack the windscreen if they're not buckled up). Of course, poorly maintained cars are more likely to have "false" firings, but that's true of anything at all and the reason those little lights flash up and the system is checked EVERY time you start the engine (or, in my 15+ year old car, every time you brake hard too - because I have seen that warning light come on after a really sharp brake, so I assume it "prepares" the airbag just-in-case and notices it wouldn't fire). A car with a faulty fuel line, or no brake fluid, is infinitely more dangerous and much easier to happen (airbags tend to be closed systems that self-check AND that even the most skilled mechanic is wary of even the most basic tampering with).
In my country, disabling the airbag on a model fitted with one is an instant test failure on your annual check. And disabling it without reason (or just "it didn't work", which means an improperly maintained vehicle not up-to-standard) will significantly affect any insurance payout if the accident wasn't my fault. I don't live in a country with medical insurance but I imagine it's a factor there too. You going to go put the bulb back in after you've wrecked your car and it's near-killed you? And what do you think your insurers will say about the near-fatal (or even fatal) injuries you sustained after having deliberately disabled a required safety function of the car that's logged and checked by the OBD all the time?
My father works in the automotive repair game and has done for 30+ years. He drives a car with an airbag. That's good enough for me. Hell, yes, he's paranoid about disabling the thing in my car too before we touch the steering column, and of course he prefers cars without lots of electronics to them. But he wouldn't turn off his airbag.
Between us, we know about 1 person who was injured by their airbag (and only a handful where they actually deployed at all). That person WAS an amateur boxer (who lost every fight I ever saw him in) many years ago, driving a car which was, let's say, of dubious roadworthiness. They punched the steering wheel while in traffic, with their head basically resting on the steering wheel. The bag deployed. It knocked him out, for about a minute. The "it-will-kill-you" rhetoric isn't exactly true and, of course, it's a trade-off. You can say "he was a boxer" and that's why he survived but he was the skinniest little runt in the lowest class and hadn't trained in ten years. That makes it no different to the average guy in the driving seat in terms of resistance.
But you're a
for taking my hand from the wheel and shifting from first to second during a left turn in an intersection.
I learned my lesson, drive how they want you to when you are taking your test.
120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
When you're pushing a basic car with a large lock-to-lock angle, hand position matters a lot if you don't want to get entangled. Not so much when driving straight, but when and how to move your hands and to what position when going fast through twisty bits, or when you're not sure whether the front or the back will break out on a highway exit. F1 drivers never have to move their hands.
ELBOW leaning into the horn, blasting out loud enough to let everyone in the immediate vicinity -- yes, even that oncoming train whose tracks you're sitting on-- know it's THAT rat bastid's fault, not yours!
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
It's not like I pretended they weren't quotes written by other people! That's merely what I found today while at work. I have heard for years that race drivers have been unable to outbrake ABS, let alone alone drivers with less skill and inferior vehicles.
:D).
The reply to the F430 example is a lack of comprehension. The point is, the rules didn't allow ABS at the Spa 1000, yet with limited time between races, ABS was fitted for the 24 hours of Nurburgring (I'd just like to add that one of the finest moments of my life was doing 8 laps of it on my motorbike
Now I am happy to have contributed to your assertion that ABS = control, because I believe that too; my beef is that you're saying it doesn't deliver shorter stopping distances in a straight line. I maintain it does (I hope you haven't forgotten that you said "ABS does not shorten braking distance, as many people think").
As for the ESP, no! I am *not* talking about ESP. I am talking about multichannel ABS that can modulate individual wheels in response to wheel speed sensors for the purpose of maintaining wheel rotation while braking, NOT in response to yaw sensors and steering angle (which is basic ESP). For example, when one of your front wheels passes a bump while braking, multichannel ABS will unlock only that wheel. The only recourse that the most amazing driver that has ever graced the planet has, is to reduce brake pressure on all wheels in order to recover the one. That's a common straight line braking example.
I don't know what the difference between race and road ABS is, but I've experienced ABS on a variety of cars since the late 90s, and it has definitely improved a *lot* since the old jackhammer lock-unlock. These days on good cars it's more like a skilled driver with 10x faster reflexes and four brake pedals.
The steering wheels is a thing of the past. With a side-stick the pedals as useless too (maybe just a redundant break pedal ?).
Your hands should be kept at shoulder width and shoulder height. For some that's 10/2, for others 9/3 (though that's pretty rare). Generally it's between those two for most people. If the bag deploys, it'll inflate within the bends in your elbows, and potentially push your hands outwards towards the side. You might end up with bruised knuckles, but that'll be the extent of it.
jas (15+ years on the race track, and have done the accident thing)
Jason Van Patten
I drive with my hands at pi^2 and e.
If a poorly designed airbag (no matter WHERE it's installed) maims me or mine, that company will be subject to the Lawsuit From Hell.
There's no reason why a car company can't design a driver's airbag that won't maim you when you're using the most effective (repeat, MOST EFFECTIVE) steering wheel position. If they fail .. they pay for their bad engineering.
the only time i use 8 and 4 is when im driving with my knees
I push the seat as far back as I can and still have full reach of the controls. I put on all the belts they give me. I pull them snug.
I'm also a bad driver, I've been in several medium severity accidents, and I can tell you first hand, the more physically secure you are, the better. And having your legs straight-ish means they flop around less in an accident. When an accident occurs, your strength means NOTHING. You WILL flop around like a rag doll.
Oh, and I'm a 9-3 guy, generally a 3-only guy. The hot gas from the air bags have burned me, but I've never directly contacted inflated airbags.
Be careful out there, I might be driving down your road some day. :)
One thing to note is that air bags in the US have a more powerful explosive charge than those in european cars. Its to protect those not wearing seat belts which is more common in the US.
That you minimize risk to yourself in the event of an accident?
Or that you minimize risk to others by having the most control over the car?
Hold your hands out in front of you... now relax them. Your palms are probably now facing slightly downward, and also slightly towards eachother. This muscularly neutral position can be sustained for prolonged periods without experiencing any RSI. When on a steering wheel, this relaxed positure corresponds, very closely, to the "ten and two" position that was taught 25 years ago or more. Because it is muscularly neutral, it enjoys the benefit of being the easiest to control - since one will not generally experience any strain in such positions, and there is no extra work involved in moving ones hands out of that position to respond to more immediate threats.
I can appreciate wanting to minimize danger to oneself while driving, but I would think that it might be more prudent, looking at the big picture, to have the most control over your car so that you yourself are driving as safely as possible, and do not get into an accident that could have been prevented by you in the first place if your reaction had been quicker.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I also only have two wheels and all you guys are stationary object blurring in my peripheral vision :-)
One, try holding your arms in this position for two hours or more. And no, the wheel is not shaped for that I've tried.
Two, better steering capability means you have to keey your hands steady more. Which is quite tiring with today's power steering.
Please fix the airbags instead or give me the old wheels.
I noticed this girl with a cool scar. I asked where she got the scar. She said she was in a car accident and when the airbag went off it set her shirt on fire!
The accident was minor, the airbag in that case did more damage than the accident.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
I follow the 10 and 2 suggestions:
Left hand on the 2 and right hand on the 10.
It's just a little bit tiring.
One hand 6 at o'clock, sliding the hand to the 4/8 o'clock position for turning. I was under the assumption this is how most drove outside of driver's ed class.
Seems like the most convenient way to drive imho and the one handed pivot point turning seems far faster than two handed grip switching.
Now I have one more reason for this driving method, keep the air-bag from breaking my arms.
They made it too easy for the vehicle to go out of control.
I remember discussing this on Usenet in the nineties. This really is old news. The only surprise is that driver's ed might still be teaching 10 and 2. The issue was, and still is, that there really was a reason to have your hands in that position, as it maximizes control of the vehicle. By making steering wheel airbags mandatory, the collateral damage is that we can't safely hold the steering wheel in the optimal way. We have relinquished control of our vehicle to some degree for some perceived additional safety. I think statistically this makes impacts measurably less lethal while making them measurably more likely.
Also at the time, there was a set of recommendations that full power airbags should not be used for people under 5'3" (as you would likely have your seat dangerously far forward) and over a certain age (I think it was 70). This was about the same time as the recommendation came out to not have a baby carrier in the front passenger seat unless you could turn off the airbag (a feature that was just becoming available in some two seat vehicles). Short people (my wife is 5'2") could apply for an exemption to have their steering wheel airbag disabled.
It's important to remember that the original NHTSA spec for air bags was to protect a medium-height male around 40 who was not wearing his seat belt. At the time, that was the majority of drivers. When the number of woman drivers spiked and the baby boomers started to age and baby carriers became more popular, problems with that paradigm started to surface.
My solution is to carefully maintain a car that doesn't have a steering wheel airbag. Your mileage, as always, may vary.
Personally, I think the more information we get out there about how violently airbags deploy (they always show it in super slow motion on tv -- it actually goes BANG like a shotgun shell) and the caustic nature of the propellant, (I have an ophthalmologist report somewhere from the nineties about the sharp increase in certain kinds of eye injuries) will have a positive effect on driving given that it's so difficult to legally disable them. I want every driver to imagine that airbag as a big ol' knife pointing out of the steering wheel at their chests. Imagine how slowly and gingerly people would drive with that mindset.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
I'm in the USA, where we drive on the RIGHT side of the road..---right having a double-meaning of the side, as well as "correct" :-)
On Feb 6 2011, I was in a 60mph front-end collision with a girl that chose to make a two-lane right-hand turn in front of my lane. Both front airbags deployed and I lived.--duh, obviously.
Where were my hands? Prior to thinking "holy $h1t!" and slamming into the girl's car, I had the right hand on the shifter, and left hand at about 8:00--This is how I normally drive. I believe I had enough time to grab the wheel with both hands in order to hold both sides of the wheel as I went for the brake pedal. I don't know if I got that far as it happened so fast.
Being 6'1", I sit as far back from the wheel as I can, just to ensure adequate leg-room. In this case, it paid off as I never hit the airbag with my face. The seatbelt restrained me before I could get that far. I don't recall my arms hurting at all from any possible air-bag induced throwback, so it would be hard to say where exactly I had the wheel gripped.
At the scene, and for about 4 weeks afterward, my chest hurt dead-center where the seatbelt crosses the breastbone. It felt like someone punched me in the chest HARD. It hurt to sneeze, cough, and laugh while it was healing. Thankfully there appears to be no permanent damage.
My vote overall though would be to agree that 10:00 and 2:00 are not the right spots in a modern airbag-equipped car.
Also, tell your passenger wife/girlfriend that driving with their feet up on the dash in the passenger front seat to do their toe-nails, or just to relax is also a bad I ideal. I'd hate to see what happens when that passenger airbag goes off and sends their ankles through the windshield.
Seat back (But not ghetto back), lumbar adjustment all the way up/on/forward, rear of seat up (if possible) and seat moved up. 9 and 3 generally. (For reference, I'm 180cm tall, med build)
how about you get out of the f'ing road, pedestrian!
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
I usually have lefty at 12 o'clock and righty on the shifter, because.. *puts shades on* driving manual is so much cooler! B-) and fun!
When I'm cruising though, ol' lefty takes a leisurely position at 6. Ya gotta get a good cruise in every once in a while, amirite?
My blood hurts...
KILL NHTSA FUNDING!
Don't you think...? Or don't you?
Assuming seat belts are worn, side impact airbags are still helpful for preventing head injuries. But I suspect steering wheel airbags aren't as useful - and could also cause significant injury as per this story.
You may not be driving in a standard crash test dummy position - turning the steering wheel etc.