Slashdot Mirror
Raspberry Pi Gets a Red-Tape Delay; Awaits CE Certificate
judgecorp writes "After many delays, the Raspberry Pi computer has arrived in Britain, but has been stopped by the need for a CE approval sticker to say it meets European regulations. The Raspberry Pi Foundation expects the sticker to be a formality, and says it failed to apply because it thought the Pi did not qualify as a 'finished end product.'"
No, seeing as comparable systems, like BeagleBone etc don't...
Next they'll have to prove that a Raspberry Pi is not a Genetically Modified Organism.
The Raspberry Pi is already obsolete. Rhombus-Tech is coming out with a board based on the Allwinner ARM implementation, 3x as fast as the obsolete CPU the Pi crowd is using. "Mass-volume pricing (just for the CPU card, and therefore excluding tax, shipping, profit, a case and a power supply) looks to be on target for around $15:" They're also looking at reusing the BeagleBoard form factor (which is much like an Arduno) and coming out with a fast Linux board in that format.
By the time the Raspberry Pi crowd delivers, they'll be obsolete. Much like the OLPC.
Raspberry Pi delayed? Shocking!
I thought we were just days away last month?
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/696
TLDR: Saturday 2/25 Eben expected the boards to ship (to them) that day or Monday.
I'm sure the Pi-ers will mod me down fiercely, but come on guys... I ordered one too, I want one, but lets not pretend this has been handled well.
It's a bare board. They figured they'd get lumped in with arduino, etc, as "components" and not have to get certified. They're probably legally right, but the supplier doesn't want to take the risk. So they wait.
I dunno why they're waiting though. They could easily take their product to another supplier and sell out just as fast.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Correct. They're doing it because their (consistently, horribly unprofessional) distributors insisted that it be done... not because regulations actually apply with this device.
The foundation desperately needs to get away from these horseshit companies. They've completely dropped the ball at every single step of the process, from the launch itself, to maintaining accurate information for current and future buyers, to present day, last-minute issues with the CE mark.
The Raspi team was right to go with outside distribution, and they picked (what appeared to be) appropriate companies for the job. It just hasn't worked out and they need to cut the bums loose.
I don't think we can say its the distro companies they picked...
Eben claimed that the first Raspi boards would arrive that day, or the next biz day back on 2/25. Now there apparently never was a raspi batch(?), and you're blaming the distributors...
I imagine this will all get sorted in the end, but I don't think the distributors sole source or problems or the only ones acting unprofessional.
it wasn't the standards body that "called them out", but the retailers who asked "shouldn't it have...."
The Pi devs thought it didn't need the CE mark because it is an unfinished product, not a consumer device (eg it doesn't come with a case). they thought this because the Beagleboard is a similarly 'unfinished' product and it too doesn't have the CE mark.
The Pi people are going through the CE motions to make sure they're covered, and finding out if they really have to go through the compliance checks on the side.
ArsTechnica does a much better job describing the issue.
I'm confused how the Pi folks thought they could claim the device is both unfinished and finished to avoid the import taxes and CE certification? It kind of makes me question their competence.
The Raspberry Pi Foundation expects the sticker to be a formality
CE tests are more strict than FCC. If they have a leaky oscillator on the board - which is extremely likely if the board has poor ground or no shielding - then they are finished. I usually test prototypes on the bench, using a spectrum analyzer and a field probe. If that looks reasonable then the board goes into the chamber for measurements of real values.
It is not easy to meet those requirements. They are not liberal. The field will be measured up to several GHz, and the passing criteria is hard to meet if you have any sort of fast switching logic in your design. R-Pi has that.
They will be even testing for the noise that the switching power supply feeds back into the AC power. They better pick a good power supply. But wires are always a problem - they radiate as hell. That's why you often see ferrite beads on power cords - they are there not because the OEM decided to splurge on unnecessary stuff.
I expect these devices do need a CE mark for electro magnetic radiation compliance (that it doesn't interfere with other equipment and its own performance isn't degraded by other equipment) and the companies in question are rightfully stating they're not going to start selling something which would land them in the shit if it is out of compliance. The US is no different with devices requiring FCC certification.
lets not pretend this has been handled well.
Compared to what? How large consumer electronics organizations release hotly anticipated products? In the case of the Galaxy Nexus or whatever you want to call that phone, I was waiting around for months to hear a date announced. Then it was announced, then it was recanted. Then a worldwide release date that excluded the US was announced. I believe that may have been taken back and forth a time or two, don't really know since it didn't affect me. Then there was a US release date that was complicated by carriers dragging their heels or FCC approval or something like that. One could argue that's not directly samsung's fault, I'd argue it's about as much samsung's fault as this current issue is raspberry pi's fault. Anyway, by the time it finally got here, I had already bought a galaxy S2, which itself was rescheduled several times, once I believe due to some patent issues.
I hear some of you already typing that this is not a fair comparison, and you're right: samsung has much more money and employees to get it right.
Also, the street dates on the phones seem to have been announced very shortly before the actual release. I'm assuming that was so that they could squeeze a few more dollars out of people buying new, very soon to be obsolete phones. Which is bullshit.
Anyway, my point is this: On things I really want to buy, I want to have a rough estimate as to when I can buy it as early as possible. Delays are always going to happen, and I'd rather have a company push the date back and explain why it's delayed rather than the "Available next week. Actually no, it's not going to be, we'll tell you if and when it's happening. That is all."
It might seem unfair, but I understood that a group of people with a big goal, on a small budget, doing something interesting and different... that was going to come with quite a few headaches. So when they pushed the dates, goofed on public updates or didn't handle misinformation properly... well, I understood and felt I had no reason to get cranky.
But when two mature businesses that sell electronic components for a living can't get their goddamn acts together to save their lives, I have a little less patience. It's doubly frustration for those that have already ordered theirs... because those people are now customers. And it's not even like they just underestimated what they'd need at launch and ignored the direct warnings, they've continued to screw everything up ever since.
In short, I'll happily cut the foundation all kinds of slack. They're not a big for-profit business with customers. They're basically a group that's been blogging about the process of trying to make something really cool, and doing a really good job of it. These distributors, however, are a joke.
Raspberry Pi have reached the step, where there's actual hardware, which has arrived in Britain (and so is alread under the hands of the makers, can already be tested/developped on/hacked with/whatever by the internal developpers) and just awaits CE certification before getting shipped to the end-users.
The EOMA-68 card is currently on the paper stages:
The prototype schematics are presently being developed.
It will be some time before it ship, too.
Each time that some small scale, partially or fully open maker wants to put hardware on the market (be it Pandora console, OpenMoko FreeRunner phone or its newer GoldenDelicious motherboard, OLPC, Raspbery Pi, Always Innovating's SmartBooks, and countless other project), there are delays.
Because these aren't done by large-scale constructor with lots of expertise in designing circuit and who can leverage their big numbers of mass order to get priority for components. (Big names like Asus have experience. Big names like Apple get prioritised when ordering 4mio CPUs)
On the other hand, as these process are publicly documented, newer projects will learn from the mistakes of older ones.
So you can expect that: when the next ARM-based gizmo gets announced, there will be delays, but fewer than with previous projects, and the device will be less likely to be obsolated, or ridden with un expected bugs. (See the difference with the first OpenMoko phones, which went thourgh several problems, and took longer to complete, and the newest motherboard from GoldenDelicious which was produced with a much shorter delay).
Maybe in 5-10 years, such projects will have collectively cumulated enough experience so they can avoid common pitfalls, share some design elements, designing experience, and so on. And thus most projects of this kind will be really faster to reach end-users.
But currently, the kind of delays that the Raspberry Pi expirienced are normal, and will probably still be seen with other similar small scale projects.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Actually, the Arduino (or at least, the Arduino Uno I'm holding in my hand right now) does have a CE mark on the back. Now this is making me paranoid about some of my own projects! What does CE testing cost?
It totally depends on how long those distributors have been involved. I've bought plenty of items from Newark before and have never had a problem. If they agreed back in December to make and distribute these boards- then yeah, they're a problem. If the agreement was made more or less when the agreement was announced (March 3rd), then I'm not the least bit surprised its taken this long, and will take longer still.
My main problem with whats happened so far: we were told an initial batch of 10k were being produced, we were kept updated (2/25, 2/6 being some of them) on their production and hopeful ship date. Now it seems there was no initial batch, WTF? Its the disconnect between
'we're making a batch and having problems, please bear with us'
and
'we're making a batch, they're at the factory being made, bear with us, , here these companies will now make them!'
There is some serious disconnect that not just manufacturing delays...
The Arduino Uno does have a CE mark. Look at the picture of the back of the board.
I don't know it is required, but it does have it
As the Raspberry Pi Foundation failed to produce these first boards in the UK ( see this article, previously linked on Slashdot), the just have to put the China Exports CE mark. :)
The initial 10k batch was made on behalf of the Foundation at some factory in China. That batch of 10k are being resold by Farnell and RS. Further production of the Pi will be handled by RS and Farnell.
So "we're making a batch, they're at the factory being made, bear with us" and "here these companies will now make them!" are both true.
RPi didn't sell me anything, either. No money has changed hands. No money will change hands until it ships. I'm merely in the queue to get one.
(Way, way down in the queue, apparently...)
The initial 10k batch was made on behalf of the Foundation at some factory in China. That batch of 10k are being resold by Farnell and RS. Further production of the Pi will be handled by RS and Farnell.
So "we're making a batch, they're at the factory being made, bear with us" and "here these companies will now make them!" are both true.
Thats the thing - RS and Farnell DIDNT SELL A SINGLE BOARD because THEY NEVER HAD ANY to begin with. That 10K batch was a LIE. ...
RS and Farnell took orders for the boards they are going to make _in the future_. Latest mail from Farnell informed me my order will be completed in July
btw. Rasppi doesnt like when you say thay they SCAMMED you, mods deleted all my comments from their site when I pointed out there never was a 10K batch and my "launch day" order turned out to be preorder for something Farnell is going to make in HALF A YEAR.
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
I expect these devices do need a CE mark for electro magnetic radiation compliance (that it doesn't interfere with other equipment and its own performance isn't degraded by other equipment) and the companies in question are rightfully stating they're not going to start selling something which would land them in the shit if it is out of compliance. The US is no different with devices requiring FCC certification.
No. Farnell is quite happy selling $4 msp430 Launchpads
http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/msp-exp430g2/kit-dev-msp430-launchpad/dp/1853793
that dont meet a single norm, no CE, no FCC nothing. Ti just states in the documentation those boards are DEV experimental stuff and thats it. TI sold >100K of them easily.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ml/slac432a/slac432a.pdf
“Texas Instruments (TI) provides the enclosed product(s) under the following conditions:
This evaluation board/kit is intended for use for ENGINEERING DEVELOPMENT, DEMONSTRATION,
EVALUATION PURPOSES ONLY and is not considered by TI to be a finished endproduct fit for gene
consumer use. Persons handling the product(s) must have electronics training and observe good engineer
practice standards. As such, the goods being provided are not intended to be complete in terms of requi
design, marketing, and/or manufacturingrelated protective considerations, including product safety a
environmental measures typically found in end products that incorporate such semiconductor components
circuit boards. This evaluation board/kit does not fall within the scope of the European Union directi
regarding electromagnetic compatibility, restricted substances (RoHS), recycling (WEEE), FCC, CE or
and therefore may not meet the technical requirements of these directives or other related directives.”
“FCC WARNING
This evaluation board/kit is intended for use for ENGINEERING DEVELOPMENT, DEMONSTRATION, OR
EVALUATION PURPOSES ONLY and is not considered by TI to be a finished enproduct fit for general
consumer use. It generates, uses, and can radiate radio frequency energy and has not been tested for compli-
ance with the limits of computing devices pursuant to part 15 of FCC rules, which are designed to provide
reasonable protection against radio frequency interference. Operation of this equipment in other environ-
ments may cause interference with radio communications, in which case the user at his own expense will be
required to take whatever measures may be required to correct this interference.”
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
As much as I think the Pi is a cool project, I'm beginning to put it in the same category as BitCoin.
This is totally an unfair comparison. You can buy a BitCoin today, you can't buy a Pi!
Based on how the EU regulations are worded, to qualify as a "finished end product" the board is supposed to have an enclosure. No enclosure, it's not a "finished end product" and it doesn't require EMC. Personally I think this is a silly way of deciding what needs to be compliant, but that's how it's worded.
I haven't really been following the Raspberry Pi, but it doesn't look like it comes with an enclosure. So it sounds like the distis are just being anal (unless you believe the conspiracy theory discussed above).
http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/1seaofpis.png
gosh this looks like a lot of Raspberry Pi's in shrink wrap, I wonder if maybe you got modded out for some reason other than you make sane reasonable points with evidence in a calm and reasonable manner?
http://www.raspberrypi.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/1seaofpis.png
gosh this looks like a lot of Raspberry Pi's in shrink wrap, I wonder if maybe you got modded out for some reason other than you make sane reasonable points with evidence in a calm and reasonable manner?
Its 29 or March, there is ~900 boards in the picture, they are still in China.
Launch date was 29 February (full 30 days ago), Launch means here you go click and buy. There was nothing to buy.
If you read post that came with that picture you will learn they are talking about 2000 boards, so where did the 8000 go? They never existed in February.
Btw I just checked and they banned me :-) Banned me for saying they "officially launched" with ZERO inventory.
Launch was in February. Farnell says that EARLIEST date is June. It all stinks. I feel scammed.
Its one thing to be incompetent, its another to constantly lie.
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.