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World's Creepiest iPhone App Pulled After Outcry
Hugh Pickens writes "Ben Grubb reports that an iPhone app that essentially allowed users to stalk women nearby using a location-based social networking service has been pulled from the iTunes app store by its developer after an outcry of criticism including a comment by Gizmodo labelling the 'Girls Around Me' app as the 'world's creepiest' app and a comment in The New York Times Bits blog, which said it 'definitely' won the prize for being 'too creepy'. The 'Girls Around Me' app utilized publicly available data to show a map with women who had checked-in to locations nearby using Foursquare and let users view Facebook information of those ladies if they had tied their Facebook account to their Foursquare account and if their Facebook account privacy settings were lax enough to allow any user to access it. The promotional website used for marketing the app states that the service 'helps you see where nearby girls are checking in, and shows you what they look like and how to get in touch, adding 'In the mood for love, or just after a one-night stand? Girls Around Me puts you in control! Reveal the hottest nightspots, who's in them, and how to reach them.' Foursquare yanked the Girls Around Me app's access to its data, which in turn led to the app's developer removing it from iTunes as it didn't work properly. In a statement to the Wall Street Journal, the company behind the app defended its creation: 'Since the app's launch till last Friday nobody ever raised a privacy concern because, again, it is clearly stated that Girls Around Me cannot show the user more data than [what Foursqure or Facebook] already does.'"
I bet it honestly never occured to the guys who did this thing that someone might use it for creepy stuff. Sometimes you can do something with innocent enough intentions only to realize later "Holy shit, someone could use this for some pretty bad purposes!" So it may be best to cut them some slack and assume that they honestly did just mean this as a way for willing/non-creepy people to meet up in meatspace. I bet there are a lot of similar apps out there being used for stuff that they were never designed for, particularly in an age where way too many young people think nothing of posting every detail of their life and personal musing online for the world to see.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Girls Around Me cannot show the user more data than [what Foursqure or Facebook] already does.
Seriously, if you're concerned about creepy bastards knowing where you are, don't tell the entire bloody internet
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Funny thing is, the "outcry" of the users affected should be either directed at FB/4square, or, more appropriately, at the users themselves. It's your own damn fault that you have made so much data publicly available that this is possible. Get your head out of your ass, you're the only one you have to blame...
weinersmith
Pulling the app is a classic case of denial. It's fairly easy to create an app like this, the information is all publicly available. If people are honestly concerned about their privacy they should either stop posting the details of their lives on-line or they should lobby the companies involved to provide better privacy controls. Pulling the app is a typical case of shooting the messenger.
This is a most beautiful example of what people expose to the social networking services really does.
What people think they're sharing is not what they are actually sharing and the impact goes way beyond their friends.
It was just a matter of time before this kind of stuff (linking publicly available data from multiple sources) moved from the domain of the targeted advertisers into the hands of mobile device market places. Is anyone really surprised by this? I guess the creep-factor comes into play when it's individuals who can stalk you, rather than corporations...
--Udo.
If the app was billed as "Find out who's around you!" instead of "Find the girls around you!", it'd do exactly the same thing, and continue to be sold.
Of course, anyone could still write this app very easily because people are publicly publishing their location information. (Duh). The story should have been "Look what people can do when you tell literally everyone in the world where you are" instead of "person makes creepy app".
AccountKiller
A " girl " is like "your mom", but younger and not genetically related to you.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
It seems to me that, if it's showing you people around you, that's the opposite of stalking. You're not tracking any particular person, you're looking at the publicly available info of people near you. Traditional Twitter and Facebook usage is closer to stalking than this is, since they're used for following the activities of specific people.
No, not because I want to stalk women. But maybe it will eventually make people aware that their privacy is something that should be kept, well, private.
Yes, I'm aware of the implications. Then again, I have zero sympathy for stupid people.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
way too many young people think nothing of posting every detail of their life and personal musing online for the world to see.
Exactly, that is the problem. Not the app itself, it just makes it more convenient to browse the available information.
If those women find that their personal information is out there on the street, including where they are *right now*, and that people are using that to find dates or for whatever purpose - then they have only themselves to blame for putting it out on the street to begin with! But then maybe that's what they are actually after. You never know.
For my part i think we should thank that developer. He show to everyone how data protection laws are too lax or inexistant. He show how some people doesn't understand how a little bit of what seems to them innocuous data can bit them in the ass very hard. And perhaps when a certain number of problem will show up in the news and courtrooms due to the availability of these datas, perhaps then the legislator will do something about it under the pressure of the frightened populace.
Any bets on whether a "guy around me" app would have raised any inkling of similar outcry?
It's not as if the app is accessing information that isn't already publicly available. Newsflash, ladies: if you're checking in to every shop you visit on foursquare, your stalker (the real one, not the guy in the office building across the street looking for a date) already knows. No app needed.
Creepy to me would be, say, an app that is secretly installed on your phone, cannot be removed or turned off, that transmits all sorts of private usage data to clandestine third-party servers without the user's permission.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
The bonus is that you can find airheads. Just looking around you will only tell you that they are women, not that they're also careless about their personal safety.
If I recall correctly (as this news isn't exactly new... it's a few days old), the app wasn't pulled because of the outcry. It was pulled because Foursquare revoked the app's access to their APIs because it violated their terms of service which dictated you aren't allowed to use the APIs to aggregate information.
If he really had no idea what that app could be used for, he's by no means any better than the idiots targeted with the app.
Fuck, does it really take more than two brain cells to figure out what's going to happen with this? Are people really that stupid?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I bet it honestly never occured to the guys who did this thing that someone might use it for creepy stuff.
Yeah, no, they knew exactly what it was. Just look at the loading screen:
http://www.cultofmac.com/157641/this-creepy-app-isnt-just-stalking-women-without-their-knowledge-its-a-wake-up-call-about-facebook-privacy/
The only surprise here is that it took so long to have such an app.
I expected that the whole metrics of social networking used in data mining and publicity would be used to service the needs of the parents (where did your kids go today? What did they buy? Who are these people on the photo with him?), the spouses (Where is she? Is he really working?), the employers (was he really calling sick from home? Does he have a drinking problem?) and any other legitimate or illegitimate need.
The potential so grand, so dark and so evil that this simple app listing girls around you seems quite harmless...
I suppose next you're going to suggest that said women should also be responsible for the unwanted attention they get when they wear certain clothes and have only themselves to blame.
Yes. You don't want your boobs stared at, don't display them. We're men, get over it.
If you share your position with the whole internet then anyone will know where you are. Who would have thought?
you're right, this isn't much different than http://pleaserobme.com/ -- and it even has a high chance of being effective. any girl stupid enough to make her facebook account public is more likely to sleep with the kind of guy that needs this app. just sayin
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
I bet it honestly never occured to the guys who did this thing that someone might use it for creepy stuff.
More likely, I think, is that they don't consider that stuff to be creepy. A depressing number of people just don't.
If the attention is just looking and perhaps verbal comments. Yes, if a women dresses in a way to attract male attention, she shouldn't be complaining about the attention she's attracting. She's got to know she's going to get the attention of all the unwanted men as well as whoever she was looking to impress.
The same for men of course. If a man is out walking on the street in his Conan the Barbarian leather harness, he has to expect to attract attention. Likewise if he's wearing a $10,000 suit and a Patek Phillipe watch.
I'd be willing to file this under "creepy, but inevitable". Given the amount of data these people posted about themselves publicly, it'd only be a matter of time until an app like this was made, and it'll only be a matter of time until one is made again.
Rather than being creeped out about it, and removing it, someone should just take a lesson from judo, and use the weight of the users against them. Someone should just create a Firesheep-like app that identifies users of the system, and when they accessed your data. Call it "Doucher Alert". If the alert goes off, and five minutes later you get hit on by a guy who "was just passing by, baby", then you can safely cross them off your list. Let the morons self-identify. Don't take away their tools, but just make sure the toolbox contains a long enough length of rope.
UTF-8: There and Back Again
Heh he could have changed about 5 words and sold it to the government!
"Terrorists around you" (everybody!)
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
A while back I was chatting to a friend in a bar, who suddenly said, "wow, he's hot! I wonder if he's single?" and pulled out his phone to check.
I think the app on the phone was called Gaydar. It did essentially the same thing -- showed nearby men's pictures, and some basic profile information. However, the big difference is the men had all very clearly opted in to this service.
(The man was not on Gaydar, so my friend had to do things the old-fashioned way, and go and talk to him.)
You wouldn't say that if I walked around in Speedos!
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
I've been reading about this thing ever since the story broke and found plenty of apps that do more or less the same thing - it's only after Cult of Mac reported about it that it seems the outrage really took off... and even then still only for this app.
The most worrying story I read was that people (they mention girls/women. a lot. pulling at the ol' heartstrings, I suppose, as the app can list men just as well) should indeed be aware of what information they put out there when they go and sign up for facebook, foursquare, etc.
If you feel a "but" coming, here goes:
BUT, that doesn't mean that people should be allowed to just take that information and use it for their own purposes.
They likened it to the "with what she was wearing, she had it coming" adage. Which is a horrible thing, and a horrible comparison as it immediately conjures up images of sexual assault / rape. In reality, the comparison is more akin to "with what she was wearing, she shouldn't complain that somebody was looking". If somebody walks down the street dressed up as Batman, I'm going to look. If somebody walks down the street in shorts that are little more than panties made out of denim, I'm going to look (female or not), because who wouldn't? I'm not going to suggest that if you're wearing that, you want to get sexually assaulted, and perhaps you don't even want to get looked at - but in the latter case you really just have a poor grasp on reality.
So if somebody puts up information on foursquare about where they are, and I find that information, think the person looks cute, yes - I may just google them, and find their facebook, and then take a closer look. Is that creepy? Well if I look up your favorite movie, drink, etc., walk into the establishment, sit down close to you and order your favorite drink and start yapping away about that movie.. yes. But then I'm a creep - that doesn't make finding that information 'creepy'. It's just human curiosity. Millions of people don't find it one bit creepy when it's a story in the latest tabloid / Cosmo / etc.
And yet that is exactly the sort of thing that is being argued in these articles. That when you put something on facebook, you're actually only putting it up there for the purposes that you want it to be used for. Even if you've made it public for the world, that you get full control over how that information is used.
So you want to be found with foursquare because that's how you get your cheaper drink, but you don't want anybody -but- that establishment to know that. Of course the establishment has the exact opposing desire: they want as many people checked in there as possible. Neither of them are likely to 'want' apps like these to exist, but the latter two desires are completely opposite.
So what is the solution? Why, ban these apps, of course.
Never mind that the information can still be looked up manually (or by means of other apps), as long as the threat that's on the radar has been eliminated.
One suggestion that I did find interesting was getting a notification when somebody uses your information. Unfortunately, that would be technically a horrible mess, and with things like foursquare, how quickly would you turn those notifications off when you get dozens per day from random passers-by / people doing web queries / etc?
There was a great opportunity here to teach people about their privacy settings, but it has gotten completely undermined by simply labeling the app as 'creepy', 'stalker app', etc. and the defense that just because you're telling the world where you are, that doesn't mean the world should actually be listening.
This includes Cult of Mac, whose latter stories have focused more on the app than on the privacy issues with foursquare/facebook.
Though I wouldn't expect much different, seeing as Cult of Mac uses a comment syndication service (Vanilla) which, in part, accepts facebook logins. Which in turn yields your facebook profile image. Which in turn yields your facebook profile, no matter what you make your user name in the comment appear to be.
Doctor, heal thyself.
Idiot. It's *ALWAYS* a man's fault. When will you get that through your head? The world, and indeed, the laws of nature and physics must all change because women aren't responsible for knowing or understanding them. Women are always the victim and are never responsible for consequences of their actions, inactions or their lack of knowing.
Meanwhile, if you're a man, you're just evil.
Would it surprise you if the government already uses such "apps" and cops on the street had it in their patrol cars? Sure, tin foil hat alert, but when some creep uses it to smooth talk women and there's public outcry, why let cops, or robbers (burglars can also get all this info on you, including how far from your home you are) get away with it? It's about time people started understanding what privacy is about and this app does just that.
I'm all for a few more iterations of this, just so the public gets aware of what is really done with all their information.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
Speedos (and all spandex) are a privilege, not a right!
This is the first thing that came to mind.
Guys, really? Stop being so anti-social and awkward. Its a safe bet to assume there are women in a bar/library/Starbucks. A line you can come up with on the spot such as 'I like those shoes/hairdo/etc' will get you a lot further than saying you were also at locations X, Y, and Z as she was. From someone you've never met, that comes off of creepy, regardless if he/she posts it on myspace/fb/G+.
Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?
"look at what she was wearing, she was asking for it"
That depends what "it" is. If "it" is physical violence, you're absolutely right, it's horrible. What you're wearing never justifies physical violence. If "it" is being stared at, it's perfectly reasonable.
Close, but not quite. By default, your land-line information is posted in the white pages unless you pay a service fee to have it not listed. My solution is to not have a land-line. Or a facebook account for that matter. :)
It's App to find people who want to be found. It's like posting your address in the White Pages, but not realizing that everyone can see it. I guess some people are just that stupid!
Well, a step beyond that - it's taking your white pages information, then looking up any references to you in the local papers, then pulling your phone records (if they were publicly available), and compiling a dossier on you.
The "creepy" factor is that we as a society are still getting used to the fact that it's now trivial to compile that dossier. We still think it's the 50s, where the police (or a private investigator) could build that file of where you go, what you do, who you hang out with, where you were and are, but that it was really time-intensive and a bit expensive. So unless you had a reason to think someone would want to go through that effort, so assumed it wasn't done (and were mostly right).
Remember, this app was compiling data from multiple sources - GPS for where you are, FourSquare (and it's brethren) for location information on other people, Facebook for the public profiles, etc. It's nothing that a person couldn't do right now. (Google+ will show you "nearby" posts today). It's just a bit time-consuming to do by hand (and so we assume people don't bother). What we forget is that it's trivial to get the computer to do all that research for us, and display it in easy-to-use formats. It's now inexpensive, both in time and money to build those dossiers - which means we need to change our assumptions to "everyone knows everything I put online".
No. No one EVER deserves to be raped.
Our society is truly fucked up if you can't send a stranger a text message without being labeled a creep. Seriously. Having come across this conversation, a lot of this is not making sense once I think about it. When I was a teenager I used to search female profiles on AOL and send text messages to strangers. No one thought it was creepy, and I even met one of my girlfriends like that (nice girl). We didn't even have profile pics back then. WTF! Now there is a total fucked up paranoia about everything. Why have all this social media crap if we cannot meet new people for fuck's sake!!! Boring. Let's wall everyone off into our own little corner of the world where we only talk to the people we know. It just seems to be the opposite of ideal and makes no sense that the technology is going to prevent us from forming new relationships or breaking the boundary of our isolated regions or locales. No wonder I hate Facebook--the reasons are becoming apparent. Instead of FB bombarding us with people we might know, why don't they facilitate connections with people we do not know who are interested in the same things that we are? The people I know are that simply because we were born in the same area and ran in to each other. I guess it makes sense that the technology continues to model this lame reality.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Or even gay bashing
"Find Nearby Gays and Beat Them Up!" :rolleyes:
[John]
Shit better not happen!
I bet it honestly never occured to the guys who did this thing that someone might use it for creepy stuff.
I bet it honestly never occurred to all the narcissists posting their current fucking location to a publicly accessible social networking site that maybe, just maybe, someone with less honorable intentions than their BFF-of-the-week might end up seeing that information.
Wake up call, folks - This app came down because the dev needed to obey Apple's policies (ie, use a semi-legitimate means of getting to Foursquare and Facebook rather than just scraping them without permission). Some less legitimate dev could quietly recreate this exact app outside the Apple food-chain, and no one would even know about it.
This app doesn't really facilitate stalking any more than cars or binoculars, and probably less so, since check-ins are made of one's own volition. As for whether it's stupid for women to post that information, I'd say hardly. Women like to be seen, noticed, and approached, though obviously by the men they're interested in, and this is yet another way to be seen. That they have to deal with advances from guys they're not interested in is just the price of being the more passive of the species. I'm not saying "who cares if women get stalked," I'm just saying this isn't any more or less dangerous than the rest of reality. Some people may turn out to be mentally unbalanced, but that's life.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
No we get constant bombardment of guilt. You looked at a 17 year old and felt funny in your pants? pervert. You admired a child's smile too long, pedophile. Took a picture of a child you dont know in the park? pedophile. Dared to stare at a woman's heaving and mostly exposed chest, pervert.
Good-bye
I had to take a database theory class to understand the dangers of "unique identifiers" with web forums and other systems. You might not give out your name, but mentioning the last few employers is enough to identify you. Just one historical local event can be identifiable to a city.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
... but not for individuals?
Check your premises.
You're the one who brought up rape, GP never mentioned it
By "getting what she deserves" and "taught a lesson," I parsed that as being treated like a sex toy/arm candy and tossed out when she gets boring, not treated with respect, etc. And why not?
You want to act like Snookie, you've got no business bitching about being treated like Snookie.
And?
Does the fact that you used to do this when you were younger automatically mean its ok? We've all done our fair share of things as a teenager I'm sure we dont anymore.
I would also like to point out that the onus of what is "creepy" is not decided by one side of the fence. A medium such as AOL back in the days advocated to that exact method of meeting strangers. Some people didn't use AOL that way. The same applies for Facebook, Myspace, etc.
tr;dr - If I feel creeped out that JohnDoe2 keeps messaging me about concerts about my favorite band regardless of if I have NSYNC pictures all over my public profile, its still creepy.
The issue with a lot of people isnt that their info is unknowingly public, its that someone is has sought you out and knows some things about you and you're wondering from where and what else does this person know.
Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?
I wouldn't say you deserve the negative attention. I have no problem with public nudity. Just don't be surprised if someone looks.
I don't see anything wrong with nudity, honestly.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
Then we would need "Uptight Girls Around Me" that shows which girls on FourSquare are looking to avoid guys that are looking for girls on FourSquare.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
We are just barely entering the erra when male abuse victims are taken seriously by police.... stalking? we are still a while off there both legally and socially.
A while back I had a female stalker, mostly I got laughed at or got outright nasty looks. A lot of guys picture stalking as this wonderful thing they would love to have happen and see other guys who are not enjoying the experience as not being grateful.
And the girls just had this 'but you are guy, it is different' dismissive attitude. Even worse some took her side with the idea that it was wrong of me to reject her, that it just was not acceptable for guys to not accept a girl's advances.
Well, that's one opinion. Do you think this would be somehow different than knocking on a strangers door to ask if she'd like to go out with you? Sounds a little creepy to me. And a lot pathetic.
I sure as hell wouldn't respond to a text message from some random person who thought we could be friends. I'd probably tell them to fuck off or not even reply.
Maybe nobody ever told you that, but it's creepy nonetheless. It sounds like the years of "a/s/l" which everyone got bombarded with on chat rooms -- bunch of lonely pathetic guys thinking they'd put their swerve on and assume and try to hit on every suspected female in the vicinity.
If you want match.com, go there. I don't give FB enough information to try to infer people I might like to know. I sure as hell don't want random internet losers to think we should be friends.
I'm sorry, but as a guy even I can see how some random guy going "mmmm .... girl ... will you be my friend" would be somewhat creepy.
Most especially since this app is mining through other services to get this information. If the women had signed up for a "introduce me to random guys" kind of thing, sure. But they're most likely wondering who the hell you are and WTF you're texting them for.
This is kind of like standing at the door of the mall and asking every pretty girl who walks in if she'd like to go out with you. In real life, that would likely lead to security or the police having a little chat with you.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Those are possibly the worst metaphors I've ever heard.
With the first link, the chain is forged.
Well, that's one opinion. Do you think this would be somehow different than knocking on a strangers door to ask if she'd like to go out with you? Sounds a little creepy to me. And a lot pathetic.
No, it's not a lot different from knocking on a stranger's door and introducing yourself. The reason why datavirtue may think it acceptable is that before he knocked he was invited by the girl onto her porch so he could read her diary which she left there with the intent that strangers read it. People tend to forget what their open privacy policies on FB really mean; either that or they truly don't understand the implications. All this app does is bridge that gap from a virtual front porch to the actual one, and only for people openly publishing where that IRL front porch is. Creeped out? Stop sharing your location with strangers.
"Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
The issue with a lot of people isnt that their info is unknowingly public, its that someone is has sought you out and knows some things about you and you're wondering from where and what else does this person know.
Why is that an issue? Here are the answers - they got the information from Facebook, and they know whatever else you say about your daily life or post in your profile.
Here's an example - I'm friends with a girl on Facebook that I haven't seen in about 15 years, and I know her middle name, birthday, son's name, school history, current work situation, relationship status, where she ate last week, etc. Not because I actively seek it out, but because she posts an update when she does goddamn anything. If she's creeped out that I know all those things then she's probably pretty stupid. It would be pretty funny to run into her on the street and start spouting off all these facts about her life though, I would like to see the look on her face. If narcissistic people like that are surprised that other people know all the stuff that they constantly post about themselves then they have no one to blame but themselves.
I also don't really see anything creepy about my behavior there. I think it's a little creepy and suspect that she feels compelled to tell the world that she ate at Firehouse Subs last weekend, not the fact that I remember odd bits of information.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
It is not about showing your status to the bloody whole itnernet, it is about application *aggregating* that data and making it easy to get. It does not matter too much if you show your four square checkin, if it is not searchable. YOu are one among thousands. Nobody can manually search that many profile and pay dirt outside of chanec. But *aggregating* and offering the results is what makes the app creepy.
That said, in addition to the map being creepy, people do not value their privacy. I do. facebook and associated domain go directely to 127.0.0.1 in my host file. Good luck trying to track me with your "like " button.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Who said rape?
Look, if a girl wants to meet a guy who will treat her with respect, she needs to not dress to acctract guys who will take advantage of her. Plain and simple, it's a fact that these guys exist and it will happen if you invite it. Note that I'm not talking about rape, I'm talking about being willingly used for sex, there is a huge difference.
Mod me a troll if you will, but there was nothing trollish about my comment. I take the faceplate off my car stereo because I know there are thieves in the world. If I leave it on and it gets stolen, it is my fault I made an attractive target, just as much as the thief is wrong for having taken it. I learned this the first time I left a faceplate on a car stereo and came back to a broken window, fucked up interior, and no stereo, and adjusted my future behavior accordingly. If a woman can't do the same after seeing negative effects from the way she dresses and acts, then she does, indeed, deserve to keep being treated that way until she learns, just as I would deserve to keep being taught not to leave the faceplate on my stereo until I finally learn to stop inviting the negative consequences it can bring.
I never menioned rape, mostly because the fact is that the majority of rape victims are plainly dressed at the time of the attack and are often victimized by someone they know, not a random guy hitting on them because they're wearing short shorts and a low cut shirt. Rape isn't the issue here, expecting people to treat you any better than you're willing to treat yourself is the issue.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Bingo! This guy gets it!
Again, I have never treated a woman like this, nor would I. I tend to avoid women who invite this kind of behavior, as a general rule. My wife actually has some self respect, as well as my full respect; were she the type to dress slutty and flirt with every guy she meets for attention, she would not be my wife, nor would she have my respect.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Is that creepy? Well if I look up your favorite movie, drink, etc., walk into the establishment, sit down close to you and order your favorite drink and start yapping away about that movie.. yes.
Why? Why is it creepy?
In an increasingly connected society in which there exists a strong trend to share information and collect it in realtime, at some point it becomes normal to see somebody and want to access their public information. If only as a matter of curiosity.
If I see an attractive woman, and an application on my portable device can identify her right away and collect all the public information and present it to me, how much information is at my fingertips to determine if I would like to get to know her more?
That is what you do when you get to know somebody in the first place. Collect some information about their likes, dislikes, personality, etc. With technology you are just doing some that before you even speak with them.
Absolutely, there are creeps that will use it, but that does not mean that all people that use it will be creeps. Creeps (or players) will find whatever means are at their disposal to con women.
This reminds me of something I was watching on Netflix recently. East of Eden. In that a group of college students create a program that can identify objects and people in a camera view and created augmented reality. You walk around seeing all public information about that person instantly.
Personally, if everything is public already, I don't find it creepy at all if I look up a girl's profile to find an icebreaker to talk to her. More to the point, I might find reasons I don't want to talk to her. If I saw her smoking for example.
True, there is that varient. Perhaps I should have been more specific.. females stalking males who are currently capable (as in not already attached) of returning their interest. Females trying to break up another relationship which they feel entitled too... though even then, outside extreme cases, I encounter the attitude that he must have done something insensitive to her like ditching her (under the idea that women are fragile emotional beings not responsible for their own lives, thus if she is that upset he MUST have done something to injure her). So bullshit all around ^_^
Eh.... the following comments from the developer sort of flies in the face of the "it's all innocent!" argument:
"In the mood for love, or just after a one-night stand? Girls Around Me puts you in control!" (right in the summary) and "helps you see where nearby girls are checking in, and shows you what they look like and how to get in touch" (press release).
That doesn't necessarily mean they advocated stalking, or that they were doing anything illegal/dishonest/that-a-clever-person-can't-do-with-twitter, but this type of of data aggregation, presented as a way to find chicks to hook up with, is just about the definition of creepy.
It might have been somewhat less creepy had they marketed the name and function of the app as "People Around Me" (apparently, you can also search for guys, but I had to dig through the press release to find that out) and allowed users to mark themselves as track-able/approach-able, but they didn't.
Yet another situation where the data we're willingly spraying about can be used in ways we can't anticipate. Now just imagine how they use it behind the scenes.
Well, if a guy is smart...he isn't going to use that intelligence in such a direct manner. It does, however, give him good ammunition for his repoire with her after he approaches. Talking about things that will spark her interests...and he can come off as something in common with her...shared experience...etc.
its all part of the game really....any advantage a guy can have to create intimacy (which girls value highly and react to), and stand out as a bit different from the crowd, and are interesting....will help said guy get laid....or even more if that's what he's after.
One of the main things a guy can do on approach..is get the girl to talk about her self, and if he can work in things HE knows, he can keep her going on, etc.
There has never been a woman that went home complaining that the guy she was with let her talk about herself too much....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Why is it creepy to have all the same information you'd have if you asked a friend of hers?
The "creepy" math is simple: woman finds man attractive, then all advances are "romantic"; woman finds man unattractive, then all advances are "creepy". There's no deeper meaning.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Hmm. I see what you're saying, and agree Snooki isn't exactly a classy lady, but I don't know if I like where this argument leads, even after removing the "rape" part of the equation.
/shrug) moral levels, too, albeit more discreetly.
By this logic, if person #1 decides that person #2's behavior is amoral or atypical enough from their own moral standards, person #1 can can treat person #2 like shit/meat/a victim/whatever while avoiding any moral repercussion of their own. Since comparing morality doesn't have an objective benchmark (other than existing laws, I guess, but that's a discussion all on its own), this isn't a very good precedent; you may end up with some "Lawful Good" (so to speak) cop beating the shit out of some "Neutral Good" (again, so to speak) nursing student to "teach them a lesson in morality".
I think the best you can really say is if someone is acting like a piece of trash and engaging in behavior you find reprehensible, you have the right to avoid them entirely, and perhaps cite laws or your own ethical code of conduct, depending how much you give a shit about "correcting" someone's behavior (it's my opinion that your case be stronger than "god says so!"). You don't have the right to deviate from how you'd treat anybody else, though, unless the offensive/damaging behavior is directed at you and/or harming you or yours.
In other words, this thinking means that while you're busy treating Snooki like the trash she is, you have no business bitching about others treating you like the trash they see you as for your perceived moral failings. Snooki's actually a great example; it's a logical disconnect to watch her (or others like her) bitch about how shitty some asshole is to her, while they in turn bitch about how morally bankrupt some skank at the bar is. It's probably a good assumption that the same thing happens at other (higher?
The more I think about it, the idea of ignoring other people's "reprehensible" behavior when it doesn't affect your life in any way is actually a pretty damn good one.
It is expected that individuals in certain jobs (primarily dealing with children) show standards of behaviour different from the norm.
In some cases there is a good reason for it...I think it would be difficult for a 18 year old boy to keep their minds on schoolwork if the students were passing around links to pictures of their 22-year old teacher in clubwear at a rave.
Not to burst your sexism, but it's safe to assume that if the 18-year-old kid wishes to ogle his 22-year-old teacher (of whatever gender), what they're wearing at that moment will probably suit the kid just fine.
(Not to mention that at 18, it's entirely possible the kid was at the same club - they're legal, after all.)
I'll agree with you in that I don't think newly-minted teachers should be in high schools. Not for any salacious reason, but simply the fact that four years isn't really enough distance to enforce the student/teacher distinction (in either direction). Let them do a couple years in junior high first to age up a bit.
You do realize that you are using the term wholly out of context, correct? Are you wasting our time or trying to make an unfunny joke? He did use an absolute, EVER. No one should EVER be raped, EVER, in the entirety of the Cosmos. No human should inflict that type of harm on another for any reason, even in retribution for an equally heinous act. It is an impossible position to condone and why i will always call out people who think 'pound in the as prison' is an acceptable term to use in the 21st century.
Good-bye
Speaking as a male and a avid Slashdot poster. I've never really had the problem of women stalking me before and wonder why it hasn't happened yet?
it's making sweeping (and frequently incorrect) remarks about 50% of the population
Also frequently correct. When you really look at sexual attraction, what motivates it is often unflattering. Being attracted to "confidence" is just socially acceptable code for power or dominance. This is often related to wealth, another thing to which you're not supposed to admit to being attracted. Men have a simpler drive, but we're usually told to be ashamed to look at a woman's body - this is objectification, etc.
On the one hand, it's easy to see why stigmas like these exist: looking no further than a woman's body is an easy path to misery, men who are the most dominant are often also the most abusive. Our biology is what it is, however, and it does us no good to just deny it. These sorts of comments are just people venting their frustration, don't make too much out of it.
Why is it creepy to have all the same information you'd have if you asked a friend of hers?
The "creepy" math is simple: woman finds man attractive, then all advances are "romantic"; woman finds man unattractive, then all advances are "creepy". There's no deeper meaning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVuAGFcGKY
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
I agree with your fix on A). But B? Seriously?
Are you sure that's how nature works? To me, it looks as if this is a construct of the judeo-christian society where you're forbidden to see a breast until 16, you're told those things are "a sin" and other craptastic notions like this. Way to screw things up. These notions might have served a purpose back in the day (the same as not eating pork, circumcision, etc served a purpose for society a long time ago) but in the 21st century, we should really know better, I'm sorry. There are also all the bullshit we're feeding our kids, on the form of Hollywood movies advocating for women to wait for the prince charming and men to do all sort of stupid things. I'm sure the impact of this pile of shit we feed our children from very young has more to do with the way we see sex than any kind of natural tendency.
This screwed up education has an effect on men AND women leading to an often confrontational relation when it comes to sex. There is absolutely no shred of evidence that there is anything "natural" or "biological" about this. I'm willing to be proven wrong if you have references of course.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
HELO
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I think it would be more accurate to say that women find advances creepy if they haven't given any signals that it is welcome.
If you walk up to a strange woman, introduce yourself, and she responds with a smile and her eyes dilate, you are probably OK asking something slightly more personal. How you interact is based on how she's interacting back.
If you walk up to a strange woman, introduce yourself, and she's all business. Just shakes your hand, doesn't smile. Remains neutral, eyes don't dilate, face doesn't flush, etc.. You'd best keep things business-like and if your only intent was flirting or asking her out, probably give up at that point.
You make it sound like if you are an attractive person, you can just go up to a strange woman and give her a hug (or more). No, you have to begin with the basic social conventions of getting to know someone, and following normal social cues as to whether the path you are on is welcome.
I can see how some people who are socially awkward might reach your conclusion, but really, it is just exactly as I described.
You could make the case the the 'get to know you' period can take longer if the person is socially awkward or not very attractive, but it is the same 'get to know you' period that any person faces when working up to deciding to flirt or not.
And attraction itself is a very big tent to most women. Lets say you go to a conference. You aren't very physically attractive but you want to meet (note: meet is the first step, not 'advances' or flirting) a woman. You'll have to find something to begin the 'get to know her' period. Notice a book she's read and you've read it too, make a comment about it. Make a joke about something happening at the conference. Give up your spot in a line if she looks in a hurry, etc... rinse repeat continue. And perhaps by the end of the conference you'll notice her smiling more, eyes dilating, etc.. now, and not before, you can start 'making advances' as you put it.