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Majority of Landmark Cancer Studies Cannot Be Replicated

New submitter Beeftopia writes with perhaps distressing news about cancer research. From the article: "During a decade as head of global cancer research at Amgen, C. Glenn Begley identified 53 'landmark' publications — papers in top journals, from reputable labs — for his team to reproduce. Begley sought to double-check the findings before trying to build on them for drug development. Result: 47 of the 53 could not be replicated. He described his findings in a commentary piece published on Wednesday in the journal Nature (paywalled) . ... But they and others fear the phenomenon is the product of a skewed system of incentives that has academics cutting corners to further their careers." As is the fashion at Nature, you can only read the actual article if you are a subscriber or want to fork over $32. Anyone with access care to provide more insight? Update: 04/06 14:00 GMT by U L : Naffer pointed us toward informative commentary in Pipeline. Thanks!

57 of 233 comments (clear)

  1. Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by crazyjj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But they and others fear the phenomenon is the product of a skewed system of incentives that has academics cutting corners to further their careers.

    As I've said before, back when I was in academia, there were always grant-whores and academics more interested in their own interests than science around. Too many people have come to treat science with a reverence more appropriate to a religion than a system of knowledge and discovery, however. And so when I point out that there are scientists out there willing to cook the numbers, exaggerate, play to politics and/or public opinion, etc. I inevitably run into those who say "Science wouldn't allow that" (like my friend who's still in the field). But science is only as good as the people practicing it. And, in any field, there are always those willing to put their own personal interests ahead of the greater good.

    I just hope this doesn't cast a shadow over those out there who *are* doing good work and *are* trying to do honest work. Sadly, some of the best researchers out there are the ones who make the least noise, get the least attention, get the least grants, and are least likely to get tenure.

    --
    What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    1. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Those of us in other fields of science tend to hold up biomed as an example of how not to run a science. They tend to have a shoddy idea of experiment design and statistics. Same way when I was a student it was always the premeds who did all the cheating.

    2. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by crazyjj · · Score: 3, Funny

      premeds

      I'll thank you not to use that kind of language on a family forum, sir!

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    3. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by hey! · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I inevitably run into those who say "Science wouldn't allow that" (like my friend who's still in the field).

      Well, science is rather like democracy in that regard. It doesn't prevent mistakes, but what makes it better than other things people have tried is that it has a mechanism for correcting them.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    4. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The incentive to fake results is always present in academia, as is the incentive to believe faked results. I recommend reading "Plastic Fantastic: How the Biggest Fraud in Physics Shook the Scientific World" by Eugenie Samuel Reich, which details the case of Heinrich Schon. Reading this book, it isn't hard to see how so many people could fall into the trap of trying to get the numbers you think you should see as well as the academic prestige that comes with the cooked numbers.

      Amazon link to the book

    5. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But they and others fear the phenomenon is the product of a skewed system of incentives that has academics cutting corners to further their careers.

      A few years back one of the USA's leading medical journals changed their rules to allow doctors who are receiving money from pharmaceuticals to publish reviews of the drugs sold by those same pharmaceuticals. We may have a problem that runs deeper than "cutting corners".

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    6. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by ATMAvatar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is not that this cannot happen in science - more that the bad science will always eventually be revealed eventually. TFA only serves to reinforce this idea. Though it is a tragedy that these particular problem studies were so lacking in scientific rigor, it is reassuring that the peer review system ultimately brought them to light, even if it took some time to do so.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    7. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Same way when I was a student it was always the premeds who did all the cheating.

      During my orientation at a university, the Dean of my college said that's exactly what they found among the people who get busted.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    8. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by tkrotchko · · Score: 2

      Like Democracy, the mechanisms take a long time, often decades and centuries.

      --
      You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
    9. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by ArhcAngel · · Score: 2

      Your friend is correct, science does not allow that. Genuine science would refute such things.

      Unfortunately, true and honest scientists are not the only people in the world, and it is far easier to construct a conniving lie than it is to show the truth.

      Like the tobacco causing cancer denialists, or the creationists, or the pro-industry groups. They have no shame. They will tell you true lies all day, while castigating others for minor flaws.

      While few on /. care to make the distinction I believe you are referring to IDists...creationists and IDists are not mutually exclusive. This matters since there are creationists who believe fully in science they just believe there is a creator. I know to most that sounds ludicrous but no more so than people believing Kim Kardashian has talent.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    10. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by Nadaka · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Failure to replicate an experiment is not certain indication the the original experiment was flawed or manipulated. But it does wink suggestively in that direction.

    11. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by Missing.Matter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've actually been on a ranting spree the past couple of days due to terrible journal manuscript submissions I've had to review recently. I can't tell you the number of times I've read a submission that was outright published in another periodical. Many foreign submitters don't understand the concept of plagiarism, let along self plagiarism. These "scientists" are ranked and compensated by the number of publications they produce, so they publish one piece of research and try to pass it off in as many periodicals as possible, essentially representing old research as brand new. This compensation system has obscured the true purpose of publication: what was once a means to disseminate your work to the general population is now a means to get you and your lab more money.

      I take my responsibility as a reviewer very seriously; the job of a scientist is not only to create new research, but to critique and evaluate the research of others. But many academics who have been in the field longer than I approach reviewing as a chore, and only focus on half of the interesting part of their job, the research. I don't know how many of these terrible publications slip through the cracks due to lazy reviewers, but I'm sure it's more than I'm comfortable to admit to myself.

    12. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by tbannist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not exactly. A drug that works no better than the placebo could be used for years or decades before anyone figures out that it doesn't do anything but create side effects. As long as there is no evidence of intentional malfeasance and there isn't a bunch of corpses linked to the drug, it would probably have little impact on profits even if it was exposed as useless.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    13. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by pepty · · Score: 4, Informative
      Can't blame all of this on grants-whores. There are a lot of reasons for published results to "revert to the mean": honest mistakes like cell lines that drift from their normal phenotype, lack of budget necessary to run additional or larger experiments, and publication bias at the journals. One of the biggest problems is brought up in TFA: the observed effect was only seen under extremely specific conditions. Often that means that the company had to adapt the experiment to a model (say a different animal or cell line) that was relevant to their own work, and they couldn't reproduce the result in that model. In which case the result is still true, but much less likely to be useful for identifying a drug target.

      On the other hand, this isn't really news, or limited to oncology. Bayer published a report last year covering its analysis of targets in CV, womens health, and onco and overall could only verify ~25% of targets in house.

    14. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by crmarvin42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Your post makes me think of two recent instances in my field (I am a non-ruminant nutritionist).

      1st had to do with a Professor down in Texas who is pushing the feeding of supplemental L-arginine to sows and a "consultant" for an Arginine manufacturer. He's been pushing it based on (frequently) contradictory reports of improved litter sizes and reduced piglet mortalitites. However, he's never had sufficeint statisitcal power. You need at least 100 sows per treatment because of the high standard deviations involved, but he frequently uses less than 10 sows per treatment. At the Midwest American Society of Animal Science meeting in Des Moines, IA this year there were two presentations from industry where they EACH used over 100 sows per treatment and found no positive effects of feeding supplemental L-arginine. They never mentioned the Texas professor directly, but you could tell that both studies were intended to be a rebuttal of what they considered bad, and self-serving science.

      2nd has to do with an article I read critiquing the use of what is called "Nutritional Epidemiology," and can be found here. It is incredibly long, but very insightfule critique of a field that is given far too much credence simply becuase of where the scientists work, and how free they are with chicken-little-esq proclomations about how meat is going to increase your chances of dieing by 30%!! (everyone has an exactly 100% chance of dieing).

      --
      Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
    15. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The private industry has a strong incentive to downplay risks with their product. Big tobacco, big oil are two examples.

    16. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by brokeninside · · Score: 2

      Words change over time.

      A hot issue in both science and philosophy, and that dates back to when science and philosophy were considered to be the same thing, is whether the universe is created or self-existent. A related hot issue is whether the universe is eternal or temporal.

      Generally speaking, creationists are those that the world is created. Most of these also believe the world is temporal. Some of these, which should be strictly referred to as young earth creationists, hold that the world is only 5,000 (or 6,000 or 7,000 or 10,000) years old.

      In the press, and in every day conversation, most young earth creationists are simply referred to as `creationists' with no distinction made between them and those who hold that the universe was created many millions of years ago and those who think that the world was created eternally (i.e. not in time because it has no temporal beginning).

      Those creationists who aren't young earth creationists may very well believe in evolution.

      Similar problems plague the English language in other contexts, e.g. the question of who is a true liberal by US standards, whether Mormons can be properly considered Christians. Generally speaking, most of us pick whatever grouping best fits our preconceived notions or ideological agenda and stick with that one. Then we insist that anyone using the word with any other nuance is using it incorrectly.

    17. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      These "scientists" are ranked and compensated by the number of publications they produce, so they publish one piece of research and try to pass it off in as many periodicals as possible, essentially representing old research as brand new. This compensation system has obscured the true purpose of publication: what was once a means to disseminate your work to the general population is now a means to get you and your lab more money.

      The incentives do cause number to be more important than quality, but as a grad student who does understand the concept of self-plagiarism, I gotta tell you that every single academic (not other students, actual professors) I've encountered will try to walk that line. It's not that we republish the same paper, it's that when we get results we're encouraged to think, "how many papers can we divide this up in?" So you publish one part in a journal, then an incremental improvement that you already had in a second journal (while citing the paper in the first one, but they are still fairly similar work). Depending on the nature of those incremental improvements, I can see someone trying to publish a paper that crosses the line.

      We need to change the culture to have journals publish papers that are just verification of data from other papers. That's the ideal work for grad students that are just starting to get in the field anyway, and it helps peer review immensely. Once you have a degree and a job doing research, you can start working on publishing new work, but then you'll be more worried about publishing half-baked ideas because you know there's an army of grad students just waiting to see if they can replicate your results.

    18. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by crazyjj · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, but unless that system is made as efficient as possible, it can take a very long time to correct itself. Eugenics is the classic example. Sure, it was eventually shown to be so much junk science, but not before it contributed to millions being killed/lobotomized/institutionalized. Even though there were skeptics of it almost from the beginning, the biology and medical fields did a piss-poor job at self-correcting, and people suffered for decades after this should have been laughed away as humbug.

      Simply saying "Well, it will eventually sort itself out" is not an excuse to avoid reform.

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    19. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by pavon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      These "scientists" are ranked and compensated by the number of publications they produce, so they publish one piece of research and try to pass it off in as many periodicals as possible, essentially representing old research as brand new.

      This problem has also created backlash that affects genuine researchers. My adviser had been working on some new research and was invited to present at a conference. So he wrote up his work in-progress (limited to 4-pages), and presented there. When the work was completed he tried to submit it to a journal, and one of the reviewers rejected it because it was "just a copy of this prior work". This is despite the fact that the 12-page journal paper went into far more detail, provided proof for what were conjectures at the time of the conference, and corrected significant errors in that preliminary work. So now the only scientific record of this work is an incomplete incorrect account.

    20. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by tibit · · Score: 2

      Yeah -- just look at this little gem:

      Part way through his project to reproduce promising studies, Begley met for breakfast at a cancer conference with the lead scientist of one of the problematic studies.
      "We went through the paper line by line, figure by figure," said Begley. "I explained that we re-did their experiment 50 times and never got their result. He said they'd done it six times and got this result once, but put it in the paper because it made the best story. It's very disillusioning."

      That's exactly what drove Feynman up the wall, what made him speak so loudly against pseudoscience. Sigh.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    21. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by jpmorgan · · Score: 2

      Yes, but it can take decades to correct even the simplest of errors. Take the Milikan oil drop experiment. A brilliantly simple experiment to measure the charge on the electron. Unfortunately, Milikan and Fletcher made a small error in their analysis which led to an incorrect result. It took a long time before the published values of the charge on the electron was correct.

      Researchers would unintentionally fudge their results to match Milikan's, because the idea that the published figure could be wrong wasn't even considered.... if your replication got a different figure, you must have done something wrong. Repeat the experiment, and tweak the analysis and don't publish until you're in their error bars. Don't rock the boat.

      And that's measuring a straightforward, easily defined concept (the charge on an electron), with an experiment renowned for the brilliance of its simplicity.

      People outside of academia think peer review is this panacea which cures all ills. But in reality, 90% of peer review is just making sure you have the right citations in your introduction.

    22. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by oldhack · · Score: 2

      Mod this AC up.

      Medicine is not your typical science, it's a beast of all its own with huge political, financial, and industrial apparatus. Look up the share of public research grants taken up by NIH for instance - NASA's budget is a mere mosquito bite in comparison.

      Throw in the Big Pharma, the insurance industry, AMA, for-profit (and nonprofit) hospital industry, and no wonder scientific integrity is a mere footnote in medicine.

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    23. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by Missing.Matter · · Score: 3, Informative

      This isn't a problem in my field. In fact, it's standard procedure to present work first at a conference, build on it, and then expand on it in a Journal paper. You're expected of course to cite your previous work in your new paper and explain explicitly what the new results are. One of the biggest journals actually suggests this before submitting. In the journals I review for, usually, several reviewers look at a paper, and recommend a decision to an editor, who makes the final call based on those reviews, so the bias or agenda of one reviewer is diluted.

    24. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We've long since reached the point where "breeding" has a lot less to do with anything than environment. The consciousness and mind are what makes humans different from any other animal. A dog, in the absence of training, will behave similarly to a trained dog purely by instinct. A human without education of any sort raised by animals in the wild is a completely different creature to one educated by the best minds on earth. The advantages, if they even exist, of genetic selection by breeding are demonstrably too insignificant to justify any cost, let alone the monstrous cost that eugenics brings.

    25. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by MozeeToby · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Also conflating things, the placebo effect is stronger if you tell the recipient that there are side effects and list them off. Basically, whenever the patient becomes aware of experiencing one of the side effects it serves as a reminder that "I'm on that drug for my X", which increases the effect. In other words, drugs with more side effects are more likely to erroneously be shown effective.

    26. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by geekmux · · Score: 2

      Failure to replicate an experiment is not certain indication the the original experiment was flawed or manipulated. But it does wink suggestively in that direction.

      To clarify, failure to replicate one experiment in a particular field of study does perhaps allow for some obvious error in the original experiment.

      However, failure to replicate 47 out of 53 experiments only brings forth suggestion that we should question ALL results. That's a hell of a lot more than a mere "wink" in the wrong direction.

    27. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

      Eugenics is junk science for four reasons:

      1) It makes invalid extrapolations from valid science.
      2) There is little empirical evidence for it, and what there is turns out to be tortuously misinterpreted.
      3) The validity or definition of some of its core concepts is questionable, so many of its ideas are untestable.
      4) It is statistically naive, ignoring things like regression to the mean.

      You can't extrapolate between dogs and people; dogs are domestic animals, and people are wild animals. At the risk of making another list, there are two problems with doing that:

      (A) Dogs are domestic animals; people are wild animals with far greater genetic diversity. Sexual reproduction is supposed to increase genetic diversity; only by starting with an artificially uniform genetic population can you breed for specific traits with any reliability. Look at several large human families and while you'll see some resemblance, it's far less than the resemblance of purebred puppies born in the same litter.

      (B) A dog reaches sexual maturity in 6-12 months; humans in 12-14 years. In the course of a 40 career a dog breeder gets to work with 30-50 generations, a human breeder would only get 2-3. Even if you start by inbreeding a single human family, it'll take you centuries to get the kind of results a dog breeder can get in 20 years.

      I'll leave off debunking eugenics here, because I'll have to start using roman numerals.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    28. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 2

      You clearly don't know much about dogs, or you have a very wide scope of "similarly to a trained".

      My dog exhibits behaviours I did not train into her. By referencing the experiences of other dog owners, trainers, and similar resources, I have found that most other dog breeds exhibit the same behaviour. For example, scratching at the ground or blanket before turning around and sleeping on it. Taking food and storing it. Digging in soil or sand. Besides what I have trained her to do, she's exactly the same as any other dog at a high level.

      Yes, environment is crucially important. So is the genetic material you're working with. We don't even KNOW most of what's important, so this decade changing it would be a mistake...except in rare cases. OTOH, there are already too many people in the world. We are beyond the carrying capacity at any previously achieved cultural level, and are using resources unsustainably. So population control is a vital need. MAYBE after we build sustainable energy sources we could think about increasing the population again, but it would probably be a bad move.

      You refer to "the consciousness and mind". When people are crowded together, struggling to make ends meed, the consciousness and mind are severely degraded. That's an environmental rather than a genetic effect, but it probably imposes epigenetic modification. (There's lots of evidence that this happens, but it would be unethical to do controlled studies.)

      Seriously, Malthusians should probably avoid mixing it up with eugenics, you're only half a step away from Hugo Boss uniforms as it is. I've no intention of engaging with you however, as not only is it waaay off topic, it's clear from both the segue and degree of investment displayed by the definitive character of your comments that you're an individual who will change neither their mind nor the topic.

      That, and its Friday.

    29. Re:Grants-whores and publicists in academia?!?!? by izomiac · · Score: 2

      Eugenics is a junk science because nobody dared advance it since WWII while other fields have advanced to the point that it seems ridiculous in comparison. There's a real basis for it, since humans aren't 100% nurture, but it's now reprehensible to say that people are not equal.

      Realistically, people just tried to conflate race with genetics to justify their racism with science. The reality is that humans are far too promiscuous, so we display very little genetic variation between various groups. (Our total population also bottle-necked a few times, leading to extensive cross-breeding.) Humans differ by only 0.5% genetically, which is similar to dogs. However, human populations only account for 5.4% of that difference, while dog breed counts for 27.5%. Also, when left to their own devices, both humans and dogs create mutts at very high frequency.

      There's also the problem that whoever was harking on eugenics believed that their group/race was superior, when genetics doesn't seem to work like that in humans. Genetic defects are real, but genetic superiority is a racist fantasy. There's no super-intelligence gene, but plenty of things that can go wrong and give a person a low IQ.

  2. For detail and commentary... by Naffer · · Score: 4, Informative

    See this discussion of the same paper on In the Pipeline, a blog devoted to organic chemistry and drug discovery. http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2012/03/29/sloppy_science.php

    1. Re:For detail and commentary... by Hatta · · Score: 3, Informative

      Full text available here.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  3. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. by concealment · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is no greater "absolute power" than knowing that if you say or write something that others will like, they will pay you lots of money and make you famous.

    It's not that money corrupts. Money is not the root of all evil; the full quote is "the love of money is the root of all evil." When our society decided that money was more important than truth, we surrendered truth to the void.

    A research scientist thinks about his day. He can slightly fudge his cancer study, make big headlines, get a ton of grant money and get appointed chair at the university. Or he can go down the long hall to his boss and say, "Nope, this one didn't work either, and while I'd like to start a religion based on false hope, this isn't the false hope you're looking for." If he does that, he can then watch one of his subordinates fudge the cancer study, make big headlines, and be his boss at the same time next year.

    Which choice would you make?

    1. Re:Absolute power corrupts absolutely. by WhiplashII · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, its a little worse than that. The honest guy doesn't get tenure, and is eventually fired. The dishonest guy remains a "scientist" for life. So in the steady state, there will be many, many more dishonest "scientists" than honest ones.

      --
      while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
    2. Re:Absolute power corrupts absolutely. by crazyjj · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or he can go down the long hall to his boss and say, "Nope, this one didn't work either, and while I'd like to start a religion based on false hope, this isn't the false hope you're looking for."

      And that's what *really* pissed me off about academia. Guys like that never get tenure, never get thanked. With so many of the people I worked with, "hypothesis" was synonymous with "foregone conclusion." The standard practice was to come up with your hypothesis, cook up a bunch of data to support it (dismissing any evidence that contradicted it with a little intellectual sleight-of-hand), publish, and then get your promotions and tenure. The guys who treated their hypotheses as ACTUAL hypotheses (that they might actually find to be wrong) were treated like bad researchers, when in fact, they were the *good* researchers. With so many people cooking the numbers, it began to be assumed that if your hypotheses weren't always proven right, it meant you were somehow flawed.

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    3. Re:Absolute power corrupts absolutely. by AndOne · · Score: 2

      I spent a year and a half working on trying to replicate results from one paper. Total failure. A few years later I was talking to one of the researchers and sure enough, the results only worked in that one case for that one data set and pretty much had no real chance of working any other way. That's pretty much the straw that broke my brain. The entire time it was my fault the results weren't being reproduced....

      --
      I don't care what you say, all I need is my Wumpabet soup.
  4. Re:No Surprise Here by smg5266 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Most people pursue careers in atmospheric science for the dollars

  5. Don't trust someone who needs money by danbuter · · Score: 2

    Many of these scientists are getting big grants to do their research. At least a few of them might be skewing their results, even just a little, to give the answers their backers want, in order to keep the money flow open. This goes for a lot of scientific research. (Not to mention the politics of getting published if your research contradicts a heavyweight in your field).

  6. "Science" said social science not replicated by peter303 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Two weeks ago said the social science studies are usually not replicated. Either because they are not true or too expensive. They were trying to explain the rise in psychology paper retractions and job firings as poor science.

  7. Re:No Surprise Here by next_ghost · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My second thought is "Hmmm, academics/scientists skewing results for the sake of their own careers. Global warming, anyone?"

    Your second thought is completely off because every single time someone actually tried to replicate global warming research, they DID get the same results. Unlike in the case of those medical papers TFA is about.

  8. I call bullshit by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Given the expense, I flat don't believe that a private company just decided to replicate 53 studies.

    And he claims that authors "made" his team sign confidentiality agreements. How do authors force that?

    So, he claims, he can't even tell us which studies failed.

    Now he works at a different cancer research company. Conflict of interests?

    I don't doubt that we've got problems in the "medical industry", but the linked article reeks of bullshit.

    Has anyone looked at Nature?

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:I call bullshit by Black+Parrot · · Score: 3, Informative

      well, you need to sign confidentiality agreements to reproduce the studies..

      No you don't. You just need to read the published paper and attempt to reproduce what the paper reports. (A good scientific paper includes enough information to make the work it reports on reproducible.)

      *However*, I suspect my post was over-reactive in a couple of regards:

      a) They might have asked the authors for their unpublished raw data, in which case a confidentiality agreement becomes plausible.

      b) When I read "landmark studies", I think longitudinal studies or clinical trials. However, it appears that they were using their own notions of "landmark", and included things like the effect of a chemical on cell biology. That sort of thing can be reproduced at a cost a private company would undertake.

      However, the "I can't tell you" criticism still stands. Among the posts at the on-line article in the Slashdot update, someone points out that the Nature article is a complaint about irreproducible results, but is not itself reproducible. Basically, from what I'm reading, Nature published an anecdote.

      Maybe it was a letter rather than a paper?

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re:I call bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      And look at many of the complaints he has about academic research in this 'paper'.

      "In addition, preclinical testing rarely includes predictive biomarkers that, when advanced to clinical trials, will help to distinguish those patients who are likely to benefit from a drug."

      When I publish a paper, I'm trying to present the the interesting findings in regards to the molecular system I'm studying. Finding a bunch of associated biomarkers is an entirely different study. If you expect me to write multiple studies/papers rolled into one and replicate the experiments over and over in dozens of cell lines and animal models, you better be paying me to do it, because I don't have the funding for that in the small budget I got for the proposed study funded by taxpayers through the NIH. When I wrote the grant to do the study, I didn't even know I would find anything for sure, so I didn't ask for a budget 20x the size so I could replicate it in every model out there to look for biomarkers as well, just in case I found something. Asking for that is a good way to have your grant rejected in the first place. My paper was to find the interesting thing. By publishing it I'm saying, 'we found something interesting, please fund us or other researchers to take the next step and replicate, test in other systems, etc, etc. Publishing my results does not mean 'Big Pharma should go ahead and spend $10 million trying this in humans right now!'

      "Given the inherent difficulties of mimicking the human micro-environment in preclinical research, reviewers and editors should demand greater thoroughness."

      It's tough to do. That's why we typically do small bite-size chunks. That and the size of our grants allow us to do the bite-size chunks. Want greater thouroughness? Increase our funding. Ohh, but that's from taxpayers, and you want them to spend all the money doing research so you don't have to.

      "Studies should not be published using a single cell line or model, but should include a number of well-characterized cancer cell lines that are representative of the intended patient population. Cancer researchers must commit to making the difficult, time-consuming and costly transition towards new research tools, as well as adopting more robust, predictive tumour models and improved validation strategies. "

      Cancer researchers must commit to the costly transition? Yes, yes, research is being held up because all those academics, with all their mega-millions in earnings each year, just aren't willing to pony up the cash to do their experiments right. We live off grants. If there isn't funding to do a huge study, we can't. Simple. No 'not willing to commit' involved.

      "Similarly, efforts to identify patient-selection biomarkers should be mandatory at the outset of drug development."

      Once again, the budget for that wasn't in my grant because I didn't know I would even find anything, let alone need to find every associated biomarker. Want to know the biomarkers? Then pay for it, or wait for me to publish this first paper, then write another grant asking for funding to look for biomarkers now that I've got a very good reason to look for them and spend the money. In a rush? Either pony up the cash or stop whining about taxpayer-funded academics not providing everything to you on a silver platter in record time.

  9. Less evil, more science by AtomicDevice · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While certainly there are those who will publish findings they know to be false, that's not really the big issue I see here. Good science demands that studies be replicated so they can be upheld or refuted. Sure, there's confirmation bias in science all over the place - the bigger problem I see is that there's very little incentive to publish a paper that simply refutes another. Busting existing studies should be a glorious field, but it's not. If big-name scientist A publishes a result in nature, and no-name scientist B publishes a paper in the journal-of-no-one-reads-it, everyone just assumes scientist B is just a bad scientist (assuming he even managed to actually get published at all).

    Another major issue is that the null hypothesis is a very un-enticing story. No one wants to publish the paper: "New Drug does nothing to cure cancer". If you spent a year and a ton of money researching New Drug, you're damn sure going to try and make it work. It's unfortunate, because often the null hypothesis is very informative, but it doesn't get you paid or published. Or how about the psychology paper: "Brain does not respond to stimulus A in any meaningful way", don't remember that paper? That's because it never got published.

    I think this is less about malicious behavior, and more about a lack of interest (which can somewhat be blamed on the way universities/journals/grants handle funding, notoriety, etc) in replicating and refuting studies.

    Do you want to be the guy who cured cancer, or the guy who disproved a bunch of studies?

    --
    Ze Atomic Device! It iz Ztolen!
  10. Medical scientists by nedlohs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    are famously bad at sceince and statistics.

    And there's no benefit (to the researcher) in replicating a study that's already been done which makes for an obvious problem.

    Medical science isn't alone in this of course, it just seems to be worse than most.

  11. Most published research findings are false by kahizonaki · · Score: 4, Informative

    A recent PLOS article (free to view!) analyses modern research, coming to the conclusion that most research findings are false.
    TLDR: Because of the nature of the statistics used and the fact that only positive results are reported.
    http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

  12. Re:So why is it wrong by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

    It's their methodology; to wit -

    Skeptic: I do not believe that your results accurately reflect reality, and therefore would like to see further experimentation.

    Neocon "Skeptic:" Uh-huYUK, I no dat I ain't come frum no durn monkey, cuz da preacher-man done told me so!

    Living in the midwest, I tend to see the latter far more than the former.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  13. As I say to the PhD students in my lab by golden+age+villain · · Score: 2, Funny

    Let's publish it quickly, then get a tenured job and change topic before others find out it's all wrong!

  14. Re:No Surprise Here by tbannist · · Score: 2

    Yeah, I'm going to get me a job with Big Green. I hear Greenpeace is paying new grads six-figure starting salaries*.

    * Energy companies in north-eastern Alberta are actually offering six-figure salaries to new grad electricians among other trades jobs.

    --
    Fanatically anti-fanatical
  15. Ioannidis said as much for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    These findings are no surprise to those who have been following medical science and research for the past decades. See for example what Dr John Ioannidis has to say about the consistency, accuracy and honesty (or lack thereof) of medical science in general: "as much as 90 percent of the published medical information that doctors rely on is flawed","There was plenty of published research, but much of it was remarkably unscientific, based largely on observations of a small number of cases", "he was struck by how many findings of all types were refuted by later findings" - and not just in epidemiological (statistical) studies, but also in randomized, double-blind clinical trials: "Baffled, he started looking for the specific ways in which studies were going wrong. And before long he discovered that the range of errors being committed was astonishing: from what questions researchers posed, to how they set up the studies, to which patients they recruited for the studies, to which measurements they took, to how they analyzed the data, to how they presented their results, to how particular studies came to be published in medical journals ... 80 percent of non-randomized studies (by far the most common type) turn out to be wrong, as do 25 percent of supposedly gold-standard randomized trials, and as much as 10 percent of the platinum-standard large randomized trials."

    Gary Taubes too denounced this accumulation of bias back in 2007: compliance bias, information bias, confirmation bias, etc. routinely introduce non-uniform effects that can be bigger than what you try to measure. And you cannot compensate for them because you cannot quantify them.

    As Sander Greenland, one of the editor/authors of Modern Epidemiology, wrote in chapter 19 "Bias Analysis":

    Conventional methods assume all errors are random and that any modeling assumptions (such as homogeneity) are correct. With these assumptions, all uncertainty about the impact of errors on estimates is subsumed within conventional standard deviations for the estimates (standard errors), such as those given in earlier chapters (which assume no measurement error), and any discrepancy between an observed association and the target effect may be attributed to chance alone. When the assumptions are incorrect, however, the logical foundation for conventional statistical methods is absent, and those methods may yield highly misleading inferences. Epidemiologists recognize the possibility of incorrect assumptions in conventional analyses when they talk of residual confounding (from nonrandom exposure assignment), selection bias (from nonrandom subject selection), and information bias (from imperfect measurement). These biases rarely receive quantitative analysis, a situation that is understandable given that the analysis requires specifying values (such as amount of selection bias) for which little or no data may be available. An unfortunate consequence of this lack of quantification is the switch in focus to those aspects of error that are more readily quantified, namely the random components.

    Systematic errors can be and often are larger than random errors, and failure to appreciate their impact is potentially disastrous. The problem is magnified in large studies and pooling projects, for in those studies the large size reduces the amount of random error, and as a result the random error may be but a small component of total error. In such studies, a focus on “statistical significance” or even on confidence limits may amount to nothing more than a decision to focus on artifacts of systematic error as if they reflected a real causal effect.

  16. Dr. John Ioannidis by jamvger · · Score: 2

    John Ioannidis, a medical statistics researcher on a small island in the Aegean, leads a group that has done significant work in this area. Here is an article in The Atlantic about his work.

    From the article: ". . . Ioannidis laid out a detailed mathematical proof that, assuming modest levels of researcher bias, typically imperfect research techniques, and the well-known tendency to focus on exciting rather than highly plausible theories, researchers will come up with wrong findings most of the time. Simply put, if you’re attracted to ideas that have a good chance of being wrong, and if you’re motivated to prove them right, and if you have a little wiggle room in how you assemble the evidence, you’ll probably succeed in proving wrong theories right."

  17. "Journal of Reproductible Results Only" by Janek+Kozicki · · Score: 2

    Well, it's time to start a new journal (among 100 000 of already existing journals). Create a huge lab, get lots of funding to pay them for their work. And tell the to reproduce every result from every submitted paper. Publish only if result was reproductible. Expensive as hell, but soon that would be the only journal that people will bother to spend time on reading.

    --
    #
    #\ @ ? Colonize Mars
    #
  18. Indeed by Benfea · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Physicists get cranky if you show them research with p values higher than one in ten thousand, but medical research routinely produces p values as high as 0.2. On top of that, you have a large number of wealthy corporations who have powerful financial motivations to influence the results of medical research fraudulently, which probably doesn't come up as often in other fields. There has been a lot of news about problems with medical research lately, mostly because the medical research community itself is discussing these issues, which is a promising sign.

    1. Re:Indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some readers might not be familiar with p-value.

      - T

  19. Preclinical trial vrs Clinical trial by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 2

    These replicated studies were a cost saving measure. Doing a clinical trial on people is more expensive than doing a preclinical trail on cell cultures. Before committing to the more expensive trail they tried to repeat the research the trial was based on. Over 10 years they did this 53 times and only got positive results 6 times. They then focused their money on those results.

  20. Say, like cough syrup/suppressants? by slew · · Score: 2

    A drug that works no better than the placebo could be used for years or decades before anyone figures out that it doesn't do anything but create side effects.

    Not years, more like decades, maybe even a century....

    As a child, I was subjected to almost every known type of prescription cough syrup/suppressant stuff to almost no effect (even the heavy duty codine laced stuff). Now ~30years later, they are only just admitting that the non-prescription stuff cough stuff is no better than placebo. Next thing you know they'll say the same thing about the prescription stuff.

    By the time they take this stuff off the market I'm sure it'll have been sold for 100 years and then the OTC stuff will probably morph into something like Dr Pepper, Coca-cola, and Hires RootBeer which started life on the medicinal side of the fence.

  21. Re:You're conflating things by izomiac · · Score: 2

    Most pre-meds go on to do something unrelated to medicine. The acceptance rate to medical school is quite low, especially when people looked to medicine as a "guaranteed job" during uncertain economic times. In my undergraduate class, there were roughly 400 pre-meds initially, ~10 went to the affiliated medical school, and ~10 went to other medical schools. Even a single bad grade will dramatically worsen one's odds, hence why so many pre-meds succumb to the temptation of cheating.

    Research is similar, because grants & funding are also stupidly competitive. This drives people to behave unethically as a calculated risk. Even well-intentioned people lose their objectivity when they dedicate their careers to something, and unobjective science is an oxymoron.