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Colony Collapse Disorder Linked To Pesticide, High-Fructose Corn Syrup

hondo77 writes "Researchers at the Harvard School of Public Health '...have re-created the mysterious Colony Collapse Disorder in several honeybee hives simply by giving them small doses of a popular pesticide, imidacloprid.' This follows recently-reported studies also linked the disorder to neonicotinoid pesticides. What is really interesting is the link to when the disorder started appearing, 2006. 'That mechanism? High-fructose corn syrup. Many bee-keepers have turned to high-fructose corn syrup to feed their bees, which the researchers say did not imperil bees until U.S. corn began to be sprayed with imidacloprid in 2004-2005. A year later was the first outbreak of Colony Collapse Disorder.'"

98 of 398 comments (clear)

  1. This 'science' is for the bees! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    - Big Corn

  2. Still needs more research by sandytaru · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While the pesticide stuff is pretty obvious, I'm more skeptical about the HFCS link, especially if they're claiming its Monstanto GMO corn causing it. Or something silly. Yes, sugar is a poison, and HFCS is vile, but it's going to take another few studies to convince me.

    --
    Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    1. Re:Still needs more research by epiphani · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do you have any experience in this field that would justify your position? Is there something in the paper that makes you think that this link is not correct? Have you a better idea of what may have caused this?

      --
      .
    2. Re:Still needs more research by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From the summary it sounds like the pesticide is piggybacking on the HFCS produced. The first article is more clear in this, that the problem is the pesticide, not the corn syrup itself.

      Monsanto's corn, however, is designed to be pesticide resistant, so farmers can use more pesticide on their corn. It's possible that at low enough dosages colony collapse disorder doesn't occur, but Monsanto's corn allows a much higher dose to be tolerated by the corn.

      All in all, this is a pretty reasonable conclusion I think.

    3. Re:Still needs more research by LikwidCirkel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not about HFCS directly. It's the fact that is has trace amounts of a pesticide in it - pesticide that's intended to kill insects!

      Now, I admit that I didn't fully read the article, but I'm pretty sure you're missing something fundamental. Monsanto GMO is not directly a problem. The problem is dumping pesticide on things because the crops have been given GMO resistance.

      Gee - feed something with trace amounts of bug killer to bugs and it kills bugs. How did no one think of this earlier???

    4. Re:Still needs more research by c0lo · · Score: 4, Informative

      While the pesticide stuff is pretty obvious, I'm more skeptical about the HFCS link, especially if they're claiming its Monstanto GMO corn causing it. Or something silly. Yes, sugar is a poison, and HFCS is vile, but it's going to take another few studies to convince me.

      RTFA, there's nothing about Monsanto. In short, it says: "LD50 is no longer enough to assess the toxicity of a substance... neonicotinoid pesticides were found to impact the bees homing ability, so they get lost and die of exhaustion".

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    5. Re:Still needs more research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What is so difficult to grasp? These are systemic pesticides. They permeate the plant. You cannot wash them off. These exist in the flowers. In the corn. In the roots. In the stalk. The "industry" selling this poisons keep repeating that they do not get into the nectar, they do not get into the eatable bits. Well, this proves they lied - bees are the canary in the coal mine.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insecticide

      Systemic insecticides are incorporated by treated plants. Insects ingest the insecticide while feeding on the plants.

      Just remember. Whatever is killing the bees, you are also eating. With old school pesticides I used to wash the produce with some soap (pesticides were stuck on plants with a type of a glue, so you need detergent to wash it off), but now with systemics, all I can do is move to organic only food.

      PS. It is rather quite ironic in a sad way that these pesticides, aimed at increasing food production, are actually causing a decrease (no bees, and yields drop)

    6. Re:Still needs more research by oneiron · · Score: 4, Informative

      Normally, I would tell you to RTFA. In this case, however, it seems you didn't even read the summary:

      Many bee-keepers have turned to high-fructose corn syrup to feed their bees, which the researchers say did not imperil bees until U.S. corn began to be sprayed with imidacloprid in 2004-2005

      This quote from the summary implies that, rather than GMO corn causing it, it's the pesticide (imidacloprid) that farmers spray on GMO corn because the corn is engineered to resist it. You're right. The pesticide stuff is pretty obvious...if you read it.

    7. Re:Still needs more research by haruchai · · Score: 2, Funny

      Looks like Fred Singer, Steven Milloy and the CEI / Heartland folks will have something to distract them from denying global warming for a bit.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    8. Re:Still needs more research by doston · · Score: 2

      While the pesticide stuff is pretty obvious, I'm more skeptical about the HFCS link, especially if they're claiming its Monstanto GMO corn causing it. Or something silly. Yes, sugar is a poison, and HFCS is vile, but it's going to take another few studies to convince me.

      The story didn't say anything about GMO corn, it said that imidacloprid has gotten into HFCS because it's being sprayed on corn crops. Why bother commenting if you're only going to skim the article...the article recap at that? ADD much?

    9. Re:Still needs more research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      My guess is that he's a Ruby on Rails programmer. That clearly makes him qualified to hold an authoritative opinion on any matter in any field.

    10. Re:Still needs more research by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's not a problem of Monsanto corn, or even corn. The problem is the pesticide, not the corn.

      The pesticide is transferred to the bees via corn. Corn without the pesticide is fine. Apparently bees are extremely sensitive to this particular pesticide. Apparently bees are extremely sensitive to this stuff. It only takes 20 parts per billion to kill the colony within six months.

      To put that in perspective, arsenic is allowed in drinking water at a level of 10 ppb. Cyanide is allowed at 200 ppb.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    11. Re:Still needs more research by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Monsanto's corn, however, is designed to be pesticide resistant, so farmers can use more pesticide on their corn.

      No. Monsanto's corn is designed to be herbicide resistant.

    12. Re:Still needs more research by Znork · · Score: 4, Informative

      Much as I think humanity would be better off with Monsanto collectively put to rot in prison, to be fair the gengineered plants are usually gengineered to be herbicide resistant, not insecticide resistant (which, as insects and plants are very different, they tend to be anyway). Gengineering for insect control tends to be along the avenue of making the plants themselves create toxins (bt corn), which doesn't include neonicotinids yet.

      So in this particular case they might not be guilty (unlike other cases of bribery, illegal dumping of toxic waste, etc, etc).

    13. Re:Still needs more research by jfengel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you want to blame Big Agriculture, the culprit this time is Bayer, not Monsanto. They're the ones who make imidacloprid. There are plenty of other things to lay at Monsanto's feet without having to point the finger at them this time.

    14. Re:Still needs more research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, you can switch to organic food. Note, however, that these are neonicotinoids -- they act on insects in the same way as nicotine (which used to be widely used as an insecticide, and is still used by organic farmers), but are designed to lower acute toxicity in mammals. So, assuming you're a mammal, rather than a honeybee, you might actually be choosing the more dangerous option. (Of course, with any pesticide, the levels of application are kept such that the amount in the final product shouldn't be harmful to humans, so the risk to you eating the produce is vanishingly small either way -- nicotine toxicity is more an issue for the farm workers applying the concentrated product.)

      The FDA and EPA do a reasonably good job of making sure pesticides for food crops are pretty safe for humans, both acutely and chronically, because that's what they do. They don't test everything so thoroughly for honeybees, which is why it was assumed that if levels were kept below acute toxicity levels, there'd be no problem. It doesn't follow that it's a problem for humans.

    15. Re:Still needs more research by Artifakt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The sugar tariffs result from Cuba being a major sugar cane producer. The same right wing that wants no trade at all with Castro wants Cuban sugar that passes through other Carribean nations to be so expensive nobody in the US wants to import any, just to prevent those other Carribean states from even possibly serving as pass throughs for any funds getting through to Cuba.

      So in the US we have a right wing that will oppose any science finding that colony collapse has anything to do with ADM, Monsanto, or other Megacorps. Now you point out that the root causes include other right wing policies. That's not going to cause them to rethink their position. THEY can't be the ones responsible for anything bad, so they'll have to double down on blaiming "acts of God", or the Gay Liberal Bees, or something.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    16. Re:Still needs more research by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, you can switch to organic food. Note, however, that these are neonicotinoids -- they act on insects in the same way as nicotine (which used to be widely used as an insecticide, and is still used by organic farmers), but are designed to lower acute toxicity in mammals. So, assuming you're a mammal, rather than a honeybee, you might actually be choosing the more dangerous option. (Of course, with any pesticide, the levels of application are kept such that the amount in the final product shouldn't be harmful to humans, so the risk to you eating the produce is vanishingly small either way -- nicotine toxicity is more an issue for the farm workers applying the concentrated product.)

      The FDA and EPA do a reasonably good job of making sure pesticides for food crops are pretty safe for humans, both acutely and chronically, because that's what they do. They don't test everything so thoroughly for honeybees, which is why it was assumed that if levels were kept below acute toxicity levels, there'd be no problem. It doesn't follow that it's a problem for humans.

      The problem is that the FDA doesn't really do much in the way of studies of long term, low level exposure. They would be awfully difficult to do. Since we don't have very good proxy measures for this sort of effect (unless Colony Collapse Disorder turns out to be such a proxy), it would take long periods of time and many people. Millions and millions of dollars. All we can say is very low level exposure to the neonicontinoids isn't acutely dangerous for humans. Everything else is up for grabs.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    17. Re:Still needs more research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just remember. Whatever is killing the bees, you are also eating.

      And chocolate kills dogs, but I'll continue eating it. Caffeine really messes up spiders, but I'll continue drinking soda.

      We don't react the same way as every other life form on earth to chemicals. Even if these pesticides are harmful to us, and they probably can be, there's dosage to consider. What is enough to kill a bee is most likely not enough to do a damn thing to someone of your size and weight. Even proportionally speaking (yes, I know you consume more than the bees).

    18. Re:Still needs more research by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Pesticide is sprayed on corn, corn gets processed, pesticide gets into HFCS, HFCS with pesticide gets into bees....sounds pretty straightforward to me. Anybody whose done any farming knows no matter how powerful your cleaning methods are you will never gets a vegetable or fruit 100% clean which is why we didn't use pesticides on our small family plots, you can wash until hell freezes over but it gets down into the plant, no way around it.

      I personally think all these GMOs and pesticides is probably why we have so many that are feeling generally "lousy" in these parts, it always seem to come around plating time when the stuff gets thick in the air. Not a decade ago we'd all practically roll around in pollen the stuff was so thick so that isn't it, and more and more people i know are having a harder and harder time tolerating foods they have always eaten like corn and tomatoes. I personally think they have tested all this crap by itself and not tested what happens when everybody is piled on with 40 other chemicals on top.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    19. Re:Still needs more research by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 2

      I stand corrected in that Monsanto's corn is herbicide, not pesticide resistant. I really wish /. had editing so I could add this to my "insightful" post. It looks like blame falls squarely on over-use of pesticides then.

    20. Re:Still needs more research by Troggie87 · · Score: 2

      Yes, you can switch to organic food. Note, however, that these are neonicotinoids -- they act on insects in the same way as nicotine (which used to be widely used as an insecticide, and is still used by organic farmers), but are designed to lower acute toxicity in mammals. So, assuming you're a mammal, rather than a honeybee, you might actually be choosing the more dangerous option. (Of course, with any pesticide, the levels of application are kept such that the amount in the final product shouldn't be harmful to humans, so the risk to you eating the produce is vanishingly small either way -- nicotine toxicity is more an issue for the farm workers applying the concentrated product.)

      The FDA and EPA do a reasonably good job of making sure pesticides for food crops are pretty safe for humans, both acutely and chronically, because that's what they do. They don't test everything so thoroughly for honeybees, which is why it was assumed that if levels were kept below acute toxicity levels, there'd be no problem. It doesn't follow that it's a problem for humans.

      Somebody mod this AC up, hes 100% spot on. Who modded the parent up anyway, its a wikipedia link from someone with an obvious paranoid bias. I mean he thinks corn is pollinated by bees for God`s sake (its wind pollinated).

      If these studies are confirmed (and there are various critiques rolling in, so we'll see) they will tell us that the amount of neonicotinoid present in the kernel, a number so small as to be considered zero for the sake of human consumption, is just enough to essentially get bees drunk if fed directly to a hive in quantity (what the beekeepers are doing). The solution is to stop using HFCS in hives; make the things either gather pollen naturally or drink cane-sugar water. Its a pesticide... that it was lethal for insects which prey on corn was never in question. What is facinating is the potential secondary effect here. It might force the EPA to beef up its testing procedures (though I doubt it... pretty hard to discover something like this without large-scale testing).

    21. Re:Still needs more research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oh, I didn't realize we were calling ROR kids "programmers" now.

    22. Re:Still needs more research by dryeo · · Score: 2

      Herbicide is a subset of pesticide so you're kind of right, just getting mixed up between different types of pesticide. The correct way to state it would be "Monsanto's corn is resistant to some types of herbicide, not insecticides"

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    23. Re:Still needs more research by dryeo · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not about HFCS directly. It's the fact that is has trace amounts of a pesticide in it - pesticide that's intended to kill insects!

      To be more exact, the type of pesticide is insecticide. Pesticides also include herbicides, fungicides, avacides (birds), rodenticides, nematodacides, bactericides amongst others. (spelling may be slighty off as it's been over 30 years since I studied this and SeaMonkey's spell checker doesn't know most of these terms).
      Unfortunately bees are quite sensitive to many insecticides so an amount of insecticide that is needed to be effective against insects that have been developing resistance for many generations is very likely to be toxic to bees.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    24. Re:Still needs more research by ZorinLynx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't it time to forgive Cuba? I mean, yes they were nasty to us in the 60s but that was ages ago. This embargo is doing more harm than good at this point.

      This grudge the US has against them is ridiculous at this point. And we can't even use the excuse "but they're COMMIES!!!" because so are the Chinese and we trade plenty with them!

    25. Re:Still needs more research by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Informative

      Do you have any experience in this field that would justify your position?

      I stopped reading at "sugar is a poison".

      Without sugar you wouldn't be reading this.

      --
      No sig today...
    26. Re:Still needs more research by tmosley · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People need justification to be skeptical of answers that don't make a lot of sense (or even those that do--as even the sensical answer is often the WRONG one) pending repeats of the study? Come the fuck on.

    27. Re:Still needs more research by dryeo · · Score: 2

      LD50 has never been a very good method of judging toxicity. LD50 is traditionally measured by feeding rats the chemical until 50% die. Edge cases include where 45% die at low doses but the other 55% take a lot higher dose to kill and cases where the majority get sick at a low dose but don't actually die until the dose is increased by a large amount.
      Then there is LC50, chemicals that barely affect mammals but are quite toxic to fish. In this case LC means liquid concentration. Amphibians are also often much more sensitive to certain pesticides including IIRC glyphosate (roundup).
      They also don't usually measure the effects of other common ingredients in pesticides such as the surfactants used to make them stick to the plant.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    28. Re:Still needs more research by Troggie87 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Guessing youre the same AC who started this. Everything is toxic, in sufficient quantity. The link you give lists that particular pesticide as having no discernable carcinogenic effects and a very low toxicity relative to any reasonable exposure. Did you even read your own link? Pesticides in general do have some risk to humans.

      The rule of thumb is that if it kills an insect keep an eye on it, because insects aren't that far from humans. Herbicides are by and large harmless unless you swim in the stuff. But the fear mongering you are doing isn't based on research. Its the same kind of conspiracy theory logic as the anti-vaccine crowd uses. This story is indicating an interesting side effect for a specific insect which ingests a toxin via an unforseen channel in a quantity not thought to be harmful. It could be a great example for a risk analysis course. It is not, however, a sky is falling moment for modern society, nor an "I told you so" moment for the GMO movement. If true, minor tweaks to the existing system fix the problem. Stop pretending its the end of the world.

    29. Re:Still needs more research by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In general, it should be a default position to never accept anything based on a single study. Being able to reproduce results is one of the cornerstones of proper science. There's always room for unseen elements within a single study that are factored out by further research.

      --
      Everything will be taken away from you.
    30. Re:Still needs more research by mohhomad · · Score: 2

      I'd love to see the citation you have for this claim. Which function in human biology requires arsenic?

    31. Re:Still needs more research by steelfood · · Score: 2

      All we can say is very low level exposure to the neonicontinoids isn't acutely dangerous for humans. Everything else is up for grabs.

      You can say that about everything. That risk is the cost of progress.

      To study effects over a long term, you need to do it over generations. And they need to be sufficiently isolated to prevent data contamination.

      In this day and age, when progress doubles in 18 months, that kind of time frame not even on the same level of existence, much less inside the ballpark.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    32. Re:Still needs more research by Raenex · · Score: 5, Informative

      I stopped reading at "sugar is a poison".

      It is, in the same way that alcohol is a poison. Alcohol can be burned for energy, and in moderation it even has health benefits, but it has to be processed by the liver as a poison.

      Sugar consists of glucose and fructose. Fructose is processed by the liver much like alcohol, but the brain isn't affected by fructose so you don't feel the same effects.

      Before modern agriculture made sugar so cheap, we primarily got fructose from fruit, which also contained fiber to fill us up and other nutrients. Now sugar is cheap and abundant, and the amount Americans eat per year is staggering, and it almost certainly is the cause of the twin epidemics of diabetes and obesity.

      Is Sugar Toxic?

    33. Re:Still needs more research by Swampash · · Score: 2

      Oxygen is a poison.

    34. Re:Still needs more research by sjames · · Score: 2

      You should have gone with selenium. Arsenic is just a poison in humans.

    35. Re:Still needs more research by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Current U.S. sugar tariffs go back to the 1930s and have nothing to do with the Castro regime in Cuba. U.S. sugar tariffs are, as they always have been, about protecting U.S. sugar producers. If you look closely, you will find almost no support for sugar tariffs amongst the rank and file conservatives. What you will find is that sugar tariffs have a minimal negative impact on a large number of people so that it is not an important issue for them. However, they have a large positive impact on a small group that very aggressively campaigns to maintain them. This group is well aware that if this issue were to become well publicized, their position would be wildly unpopular, so they maintain a very low profile only allowing it to become high profile when they are in a position to spin the story to be about "American jobs".
      This is an issue that if you want to actually make a difference on, you should avoid trying to make it a left vs right issue because it isn't. There are just as many left wing politicians who have supported the sugar tariffs as there are right wing politicians who have done so.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    36. Re:Still needs more research by guises · · Score: 3

      No, don't do this. Robert Lustig's claims are as yet unsubstantiated. He himself admits this. He makes a compelling case for his theory and there's no reason why you shouldn't follow his advice, but you should not just assume him to be correct and above all you must not pass this on to other people as though it were fact.

      This is exactly the danger in reporting unpublished papers and why Lustig is the only one making the television circuit, despite being in a pretty broad field.

    37. Re:Still needs more research by martin-boundary · · Score: 3, Funny

      Well, since HTML codemonkeys are now called app developers, why not?

    38. Re:Still needs more research by Raenex · · Score: 2

      Robert Lustig's claims are as yet unsubstantiated. He himself admits this.

      Do you have a reference where he says that? Because I highly doubt he would use that word, as there is ample evidence that sugar is the problem.

      If you mean not yet accepted in mainstream medicine as proven, then I would agree with you, but it's a rather sad state of affairs since there is now much more evidence than there ever was when the medical establishment went on the anti-fat crusade decades ago, back when Yudkin was saying no, it's not the fat, it's the sugar. Americans changed their diet and to low-fat high-sugar, and look what happened.

      He makes a compelling case for his theory and there's no reason why you shouldn't follow his advice, but you should not just assume him to be correct and above all you must not pass this on to other people as though it were fact.

      Everything I said was a fact regarding the way fructose is processed by the liver, the way it is found in nature, and the staggering amounts that Americans eat. The only thing that wasn't a fact was the link to diabetes and obesity, and there I said "almost certainly". I think it's a crime to underplay all the evidence given the scope of the problem, and I encourage anybody who cares about health to take this issue very seriously.

      This is exactly the danger in reporting unpublished papers and why Lustig is the only one making the television circuit, despite being in a pretty broad field.

      Lustig provides references to peer-reviewed papers that show correlation between sugar consumption and diabetes. If you have counter evidence to show that he's wrong on any of his evidence, please reference it.

  3. Tangential Jab by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The summary should be: "CCD Linked to Pesticide"

    I get the feeling including HFCS so prominently in the story is more about triggering an emotional response in readers.

    1. Re:Tangential Jab by bunratty · · Score: 4, Informative

      People have been claiming that HFCS is one of the root causes of the obestiy epidemic. Is fructose bad for you?

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    2. Re:Tangential Jab by nebosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, if you RTFA, you can see that the link to HFCS is prominently featured because it explains the lag between imidacloprid introduction (1990s) to widespread observance of CCD (2006) because feeding hives with HFCS was not a widespread practice until then. Because the corn from which it is produced is often sprayed with imidacloprid, the HFCS contains trace amounts of imidacloprid well below safe limits for humans, and even below LD50 for the bees, but apparently sufficient to incur CCD over time. A related study described in the second linked article suggests that the class of pesticides to which imidacloprid belongs (neonicotinoids) interfere with the bees' homing ability, which explains the characteristic lack of dead adults in a colony that has suffered CCD--the adults apparently get lost while foraging and can't find their way back to the hive.

      What I find most striking is that CCD did not seem to be much of a problem in the 90s when imidacloprid was introduced, which implies that bees are fine with it being sprayed on crops, but cannot tolerate even minute (measured in double digit parts per billion) traces when it is fed to them (in this case, via HFCS).

    3. Re:Tangential Jab by canajin56 · · Score: 2

      So you think the interesting part is that insecticide kills insects, and the fact that HFCS contains various insecticides in significant amounts is both obvious and beside the point?

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    4. Re:Tangential Jab by HiThere · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not misrepresenting, though it is highlighting indirectly significant information.

      The poison gets to the bees through High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS).
      The poison gets into the HFCS from corn that's resistant to pesticide.
      The corn that's resistant to pesticide is grown from seeds sold by Monsanto.
      Ordinary corn wouldn't lead to this, because that much pesticide would have killed it.
      Ordinary sugar wouldn't lead to this, because it's not from a crop that's drenched in the implicated pesticide.

      So HFCS is a critical link.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    5. Re:Tangential Jab by Whatsmynickname · · Score: 2

      The way the summary was written, I first thought the bees were getting too fat off the HFCS to get off the ground... Then I RTFA

    6. Re:Tangential Jab by dzfoo · · Score: 2

      No. It gets a bad rap because of the sheer amount of it included in processed foods.

      You can be sure that if the main ingredient in sugary drinks and processed foods were cane sugar, you'd hear how bad cane sugar is.

      Notice how ordinary table salt and sodium was targeted also some time ago by health food proponents as a bad thing. It was because processed foods were laden with it, not because anybody thought table salt was poison.

      It's a simplified argument, sure, but it is intended to drive the point home.

              dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
  4. Explained in Article! by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Informative

    While the pesticide stuff is pretty obvious, I'm more skeptical about the HFCS link

    I know this is Slashdot but if you read the article the explanation becomes very clear. Some bees are fed with HFCS and the syrup itself is derived from crops treated with the pesticide and so it is present in low levels in the syrup and apparently only very low levels are needed to generate CCD.

    1. Re:Explained in Article! by tomhath · · Score: 4, Informative

      And even more interesting, in all three studies the pesticide was intentionally fed to the bees in the sugar water; it wasn't collected by the bees. The Harvard study also points out the bee keepers feed their colonies HFCS, which apparently started containing trace amounts of the pesticide about the time they noticed colony collapse become a problem. Kind of sounds like they need to stop feeding HFCS.

    2. Re:Explained in Article! by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And stop using those two pesticides.

    3. Re:Explained in Article! by russotto · · Score: 4, Informative

      And even more interesting, in all three studies the pesticide was intentionally fed to the bees in the sugar water; it wasn't collected by the bees. The Harvard study also points out the bee keepers feed their colonies HFCS, which apparently started containing trace amounts of the pesticide about the time they noticed colony collapse become a problem. Kind of sounds like they need to stop feeding HFCS.

      Which would be a very neat conclusion... if it weren't for the fact that non-HFCS fed bees have also been hit by CCD. It doesn't let the insecticide or even tainted HFCS off the hook, but it does suggest that that it's not so simple as "stop feeding HFCS, bees survive".

    4. Re:Explained in Article! by Zibodiz · · Score: 5, Informative

      As a former beekeeper, I can tell you they don't. They're only fed HFCS during the late winter, once they've run out of honey. A month later, they were making honey again. It didn't used to hurt them at all.

    5. Re:Explained in Article! by icebike · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And even more interesting, in all three studies the pesticide was intentionally fed to the bees in the sugar water; it wasn't collected by the bees. The Harvard study also points out the bee keepers feed their colonies HFCS, which apparently started containing trace amounts of the pesticide about the time they noticed colony collapse become a problem. Kind of sounds like they need to stop feeding HFCS.

      But was this food grade HFCS?

      Is the FDA on board with pesticide being passed thru at detectable levels in a supposedly simple processed food product?

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    6. Re:Explained in Article! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My immediate questions are, what biochemical mechanism is in place that makes imidacloprid dangerous to bees, and if trace amounts are found in most if not all HFCS, is there any consumption concern for humans who eat food with HFCS in it? HFCS that has trace levels of imidacloprid in it.

    7. Re:Explained in Article! by IonOtter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      what biochemical mechanism is in place that makes imidacloprid dangerous to bees...

      It is an insecticide.

      That's usually dangerous to insects.

      --
      [End Of Line]
    8. Re:Explained in Article! by IonOtter · · Score: 4, Interesting

      According to the article, it took more than a month for the bees to show the CCD effects when they were fed trace amounts.

      Also, if the hives are running out of honey in late winter, then the keeper is taking too much honey.

      --
      [End Of Line]
    9. Re:Explained in Article! by Doubting+Sapien · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Could you provide some reference regarding non-HFCS fed bees being hit by CCD? I didn't see any mention of that particular detail in the linked article. Of all that *is* mentioned in the article, the description of the mortality profile of affected bees in the experiment suggests a stronger correlation than you suggest. From the article:

      The characteristics of the dead hives were consistent with CCD, said Lu; the hives were empty except for food stores, some pollen, and young bees, with few dead bees nearby. When other conditions cause hive collapse—such as disease or pests—many dead bees are typically found inside and outside the affected hives.

      --
      ========== "Hello World" in my programming language of choice: ATG - LET THERE BE LIFE - TAG ==========
    10. Re:Explained in Article! by Ihmhi · · Score: 5, Interesting

      But was this food grade HFCS?

      Is the FDA on board with pesticide being passed thru at detectable levels in a supposedly simple processed food product?

      Welp, farmers are definitely the sort of folks that try to make the best use of anything. "Ah hell, well this batch isn't any good for selling, but I guess I could feed it to the bees..."

    11. Re:Explained in Article! by Doubting+Sapien · · Score: 2
      From one of the links:

      Past research has shown that neonicotinoid pesticides, which target insects' central nervous system........

      I suppose you'll have to do some leg work on your own if that doesn't satisfy.

      --
      ========== "Hello World" in my programming language of choice: ATG - LET THERE BE LIFE - TAG ==========
    12. Re:Explained in Article! by emt377 · · Score: 4, Informative

      My immediate questions are, what biochemical mechanism is in place that makes imidacloprid dangerous to bees, and if trace amounts are found in most if not all HFCS, is there any consumption concern for humans who eat food with HFCS in it?

      It's a neurotoxin that causes paralysis by disrupting a neurotransmitter that's present in insects but not in warm-blooded animals. It acts on contact.

    13. Re:Explained in Article! by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 4, Informative

      My immediate questions are, what biochemical mechanism is in place that makes imidacloprid dangerous to bees

      The one that was engineered into imidacloprid on purpose: it blocks nicotinoid pathways that primarily exist only in the central nervous systems of insects.

      and if trace amounts are found in most if not all HFCS, is there any consumption concern for humans who eat food with HFCS in it?

      No. Most modern insecticides were designed not to target mechanisms that are present in the nervous systems of mammals.

    14. Re:Explained in Article! by Hartree · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So when did you become a beekeeper, Ion? ;)

      It's been long standing practice to supplement food in hives in late winter as it leads to a faster build up of bees before the spring honey flow. It doesn't mean they were stripping out too much.

      (Full, disclosure: Yes, I'm "that" Hartree. And I used to help my dad keep bees. Good to run into you on Slashdot!)

    15. Re:Explained in Article! by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2

      It's a neurotoxin that causes paralysis by disrupting a neurotransmitter that's present in insects but not in warm-blooded animals.

      However that does not mean that it is harmless for us. According to wikipedia it is rated as moderately toxic when ingested by mammals and affects the thyroid of rats and the livers of dogs in sufficiently high concentrations.

    16. Re:Explained in Article! by kimvette · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's a neurotoxin that causes paralysis by disrupting a neurotransmitter that's present in insects but not in warm-blooded animals. It acts on contact.

      Does it also affect reptiles and other cold-blooded animals, or just the insect world? I'm just curious because I wonder if we feed this to politicians and lawyers it might solve all the world's problems and result in world peace.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    17. Re:Explained in Article! by ktappe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But was this food grade HFCS?

      Is the FDA on board with pesticide being passed thru at detectable levels in a supposedly simple processed food product?

      Welp, farmers are definitely the sort of folks that try to make the best use of anything. "Ah hell, well this batch isn't any good for selling, but I guess I could feed it to the bees..."

      The much more likely scenario would be that the maker of the pesticide lobbied the FDA to make it "acceptable" for the pesticide to appear in non-zero amounts in HFCS. That's how things work in this country.

      --
      "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
    18. Re:Explained in Article! by ktappe · · Score: 4, Informative

      According to the article, it took more than a month for the bees to show the CCD effects when they were fed trace amounts.

      Also, if the hives are running out of honey in late winter, then the keeper is taking too much honey.

      Sorry, that's simply not the case. If a hive produces only enough honey to get itself through the winter, then under your plan, the beekeeper can harvest no honey. That's not viable business. It's quite normal to take most (no, not all) the honey from a hive and augment what the bees have left with sugar water or (more recently) HFCS.

      (Yes, I grew up performing these very duties.)

      --
      "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
    19. Re:Explained in Article! by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem is that bee keepers had been feeding bees HFCS for some years before the pesticides (and the increased occurrence of CCD) started showing up int the HFCS, so there was no reason to connect HFCS to the CCD. Looking at the information from this study, it looks like the correct answer is for beekeepers to find a source of HFCS (or some other sugar solution) that guarantees that it does not contain these pesticides. These studies seem to imply that the problem does not occur from the use of these pesticides in agriculture, but from the small amount of pesticide that finds its way into HFCS that beekeepers feed their bees at the end of the winter. If this is correct, it does not require outlawing these pesticides. It just requires beekeepers to be aware of the problem and avoid HFCS that is so contaminated.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    20. Re:Explained in Article! by Rei · · Score: 2

      Here's the problem. Neonicotinoids went into wide use starting in the 1990s to replace other pesticide families such as organophosphates, which are generally much more indiscriminate in what they hurt and more hazardous to human health. Organophosphates are the same family of chemicals that include VX and sarin. Neonicotinoids are in the same family as nicotine and are analogous to the old technique of spraying plants with tobacco juice to kill insects.

      And also, just to make clear, we're not talking about "two pesticides". We're talking about a whole family.

      And anyway, the study has all sorts of other problems that I've talked about elsewhere, and is like the 10th study to loudly proclaim, "we've solved it!" with a different solution.

      --
      Virgin birth, water into wine; it's like Harry Potter, but it causes genocide and bad folk music.
    21. Re:Explained in Article! by X0563511 · · Score: 2

      I think this tells it better: it's not that we are immune to it, we are just effected by it by a very large margin:

      Specifically, it causes a blockage in a type of neuronal pathway (nicotinergic) that is more abundant in insects than in warm-blooded animals (making the chemical selectively more toxic to insects than warm-blooded animals)

      I'm not sure why that is present in that article, and not in the article on the chemical itself?

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  5. But... by Hatta · · Score: 2

    I thought it was fungus.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:But... by bunratty · · Score: 4, Insightful
      That study shows correlation, not causation:

      "At this stage, the study is showing an association of death rates of the bees with the virus and fungus present," Bilimoria said. "Our contribution to this study confirms association. But even that doesn't prove cause and effect. Not just yet."

      The study in this article shows evidence of causation:

      "Researchers at the Harvard School of Public Health '...have re-created the mysterious Colony Collapse Disorder in several honeybee hives simply by giving them small doses of a popular pesticide, imidacloprid.'"

      It's easy to regurgitate that "correlation is not causation", but most people don't seem to quite understand what that sentence means.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    2. Re:But... by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

      I thought it was fungus.

      I think this is the third cause discovered in the past month.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  6. Monsanto-sponsored smear campaign by Dega704 · · Score: 2

    in 3, 2, 1

    1. Re:Monsanto-sponsored smear campaign by tomhath · · Score: 2
      You hurt your own cause by making claims like that. Hating on Monsanto and GMO crops is a separate issue; Roundup Ready crops are modified to be specifically resistant to a very low toxicity herbicide, has nothing to do with insecticides. I've never seen any study, even by the organic guys, that shows a problem with glyphosates.

      The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) considers glyphosate to be relatively low in toxicity, and without carcinogenic effects.[40] The EPA considered a "worst case" dietary risk model of an individual eating a lifetime of food entirely from glyphosate-sprayed fields, and with residue levels remaining at their maximum levels, and concluded no adverse effects would exist under these conditions

  7. Re:How soon before something is done about it thou by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Pretty soon once bee keepers start sourcing non-pesticide-laced feed for their bees.

    If I were a milk producer and fed my cows a concoction that caused 90% of them to drop dead at the same time every two years I'd sure as hell look for a new feed source -- it could be fairly expensive even and the fact that I don't want to risk fundamental failure in my ability to survive would mean it's still a good deal for me.

  8. Whether it's cane sugar or corn sugar by Culture20 · · Score: 2

    The bees can tell the difference!

  9. Re:Do bees like tobacco plants? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

    This would appear to indicate that the substance in question does not occur in tobacco nectar, nor anywhere else in nature:

    "The invention of imidacloprid, the most important neonicotinoid insecticide, was initiated by replacement of the framework of nithiazine with an imidazolidine ring."

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  10. Re:Do bees like tobacco plants? by reverseengineer · · Score: 5, Informative

    Imidacloprid is considered neonicotinoid, but its biochemical effects should not be compared to natural nicotine. Just as humans do, insects have a couple of different types of receptors for the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, including a nicotinic receptor. Insect physiology favors the nicotinic receptor pathway such that some insectides which are mildly toxic to humans are extremely poisonous to insects. Nicotine can activate these receptors temporarily, which is responsible for its physiological effects. However, imidacloprid irreversibly binds to the nicotinic receptor, which blocks acetylcholine transmission and leads to the insect's death. It appears that sublethal concentrations may still cause significant impairment, similar to myasthenia gravis.

    --
    "FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
  11. Also Linked To Parasites by sycodon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But parasites can't be pinned on Humans so it's no worth mentioning.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Also Linked To Parasites by Rei · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's been linked to about a dozen different things, with each study calling itself "conclusive". It actually starts to get annoying after a while.

      Here's the most balanced and detailed article I've seen on this most recent paper so far. In particular, I like Krupke's comments:

      “If the relationship was as easy as that, we’d have noticed it long ago. There are areas where neonicotinoids are used, but you don’t have colony loss,” Krupke said. “But what these studies are showing is that because neonicotinoids are absolutely ubiquitous, and we’re seeing sub-lethal effects, is that they’re stressors. They’ve softened up the bees for other parasites.”

      Pesticide risk analysis in the United States has focused too much on whether chemicals are immediately, obviously toxic, said Krupke. “Our way of thinking is fundamentally flawed,” he said. “We need to look at sub-lethal effects, and for a longer time period. These pesticides are everywhere, every year. We’ve never used pesticides in the way we’re using them now, where we charge up a plant and it expresses pesticides all year long.”

      I think that's a fair view on the subject, and ties in well with all of the other "conclusive" studies.

      It's also worth remembering -- not that it helps anything now -- that honeybees are not native to the US. We only need them because of our extreme use of pesticide-heavy monoculture. Pesticides obviously kill off native pollinators, but monoculture is just as bad -- when everything for dozens of miles around, for the most part, all blooms at once and then there's virtually nothing for the rest of the year, you can't support most types of pollinator populations.

      --
      Virgin birth, water into wine; it's like Harry Potter, but it causes genocide and bad folk music.
    2. Re:Also Linked To Parasites by omfgnosis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh I get it. This is like when people say that global warming is also linked to natural warming-cooling cycles, but that can't be linked to humans so it's not worth mentioning. Which all sounds great on its face, but the subtext is: pay no attention to what humans are doing (or can do differently) because gee whiz the world is a big complicated place and by golly we can't be responsible for such drastic changes.

      It reminds me of a rant I heard last night in an old exchange between Bill Maher and Bill O'reilly (yeah I like to dig through old videos sometimes when I'm bored), where Maher pointed out that the Republican party...

      can turn anything into a wash, like they're doing now with Kerry's military record. And Bush has a pretty indefensible military record, especially for someone who's running as a "war president". But they're able to muck up John Kerry's record, spin it, tarnish it to the point where people go, "hey, you know what, there's some crazy stuff about Bush in the war, and there's some crazy stuff about Kerry. It's a wash." (Source)

      It may not be your conscious motive, but it's really clear what the tactic is.

      From TFA (I know, I know):

      In the summer of 2010, the researchers conducted an in situ study in Worcester County, Mass. aimed at replicating how imidacloprid may have caused the CCD outbreak. Over a 23-week period, they monitored bees in four different bee yards; each yard had four hives treated with different levels of imidacloprid and one control hive. After 12 weeks of imidacloprid dosing, all the bees were alive. But after 23 weeks, 15 out of 16 of the imidacloprid-treated hives—94%—had died. Those exposed to the highest levels of the pesticide died first.

      The characteristics of the dead hives were consistent with CCD, said Lu; the hives were empty except for food stores, some pollen, and young bees, with few dead bees nearby. When other conditions cause hive collapse—such as disease or pests—many dead bees are typically found inside and outside the affected hives.

      That's science. You can't just brush it off with innuendo about whatever mysterious bias it is that apparently enjoins otherwise self-interested people to promote their own species' repression (even though all of the evidence suggests that those using this kind of innuendo and anti-science rhetoric are the ones threatening our species). But since it's science—and therefore falsifiable—if you really want to promote doubt of their findings, you can always research their work and find the errors in it. In the meantime, it may be that there are two contemporary causes of bee colony collapse, and it may be that one of them isn't human-driven. But the other one is. And we have the power to stop it.

    3. Re:Also Linked To Parasites by omfgnosis · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's also worth remembering -- not that it helps anything now -- that honeybees are not native to the US. We only need them because of our extreme use of pesticide-heavy monoculture. Pesticides obviously kill off native pollinators, but monoculture is just as bad -- when everything for dozens of miles around, for the most part, all blooms at once and then there's virtually nothing for the rest of the year, you can't support most types of pollinator populations.

      While true and (yes) worth remembering—and even with the caveat that you seem to be getting at that we still depend on them whether they're native or not—there's also the matter of the combined dangers of sidelining those other pollinators, so that we may not be able to rely on them even if we get our shit together in terms of food production; and the danger of other pollinators, also part of a complex ecosystem, being subject to the same kinds of stressors and industrial challenges the honeybees suffer. The honeybees serve also as a figurative canary in the coal mine. The quite obvious upshot is that intensive meddling in the name of efficiency or profit might have a profound impact on our survival.

  12. Re:What did they feed the bees before HFCS? by will_die · · Score: 3, Informative

    sugar syrup, cane or beet, was used

  13. Re:What did they feed the bees before HFCS? by canajin56 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The same pesticide IS in every food you eat. Not because of HFCS, which doesn't contain that much (except if you're an insect), but because they spray the same pesticide on everything. There is 50-1000 PPB in your fresh greens, 10-40 PPB in your mashed potatoes, 0.0004 in your tap water (averaged over the USA, as high as 0.01 BBP in farm lands, and 0.1 from well water in farm land). When you buy organic, the levels are still only lower, not gone. It persists in the ground for years upon years. But don't worry, they've tested the LD50 so they know how much it takes to kill a person instantly, and presumably anything not instantly fatal is harmless. Sure, it causes birth defects in rats, but rats aren't people.

    --
    ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
  14. Something Nobody Seems To Be Saying/Asking... by IonOtter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Okay, so we've learned that HFCS that is derived from corn treated with a pesticide is responsible for causing CCD. And from the articles, it appears that bees that aren't fed HFCS (laced or not) don't seem to be collecting enough of the pesticide via their natural habits.

    Great! Great news. Yay! Whoo-hoo, and all that jazz.

    So why are we feeding the bees HFCS or sugar water?

    A former beekeeper pointed out that they're fed HFCS and sugar water in late winter when the hives run out of honey. (In case you didn't know, bees don't make honey just for human benefit. It's supposed to be their food.)

    So the next logical question would be, "Why are they running out of honey in late winter?"

    Answer: Keepers are taking too much.

    So! CCD isn't necessarily caused by a pesticide, it's caused by HUMAN GREED when idiot bee keepers harvest too much honey for a quick profit, and then try to keep their bees limping along on garbage. If they weren't stealing the winter food supply, and restrained themselves to taking only the summer surplus, then CCD would most likely never have happened. (Using sugar water USED to be a last-gasp, keeper-has-shit-the-bed-and-has-to-fix-it method of helping your bees survive your lack of proper planning? But now it's become canon.)

    Once again, the cause of the problem is human greed and stupidity.

    --
    [End Of Line]
    1. Re:Something Nobody Seems To Be Saying/Asking... by dr2chase · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not just "human greed". If you want to keep bees someplace that it gets good-N-cold, feeding them can help them get through the winter. I had bees, a new batch. I took NO honey the first year. We had a nasty winter (not this one just past, but the previous year). Bees did not survive, partly because I did not feed them. Another way to feed them (not sure how much HFCS is in this, but I will check) that a beekeeper friend recommended was to get bulk fondant icing, smear it on wax paper, and just stick that in the top (?) of the hive.

      When I was a kid, we kept bees in Florida. That was pretty much dead easy, compared to beekeeping in the Northeast.

    2. Re:Something Nobody Seems To Be Saying/Asking... by IonOtter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ooooh, ouch. I'm sorry, losing a hive is terrible. A friend of my dad's used to cry for days if he lost a hive, but those were the "good old days".

      Putting in a new colony is an exceptional event, and supplemental feeding is most certainly understandable. It takes time to get a colony firmly and safely established.

      It is generally accepted that a healthy, well-established hive will require approximately 60lbs of honey to survive a typical "northern" winter. Some of the permaculture-minded documentation suggests that a keeper should go even further, and refrain from harvesting during the summer or fall, and wait until the spring when new flowers are coming out. That way, they can be absolutely certain that whatever honey is left over is truly "surplus".

      But that's not what we're doing.

      I would actually go so far as to suggest that "mobile hives", the ones that are freighted across the country from field to grove to field, shouldn't have *any* honey harvested from them at all. That way, they would have the very best food available to them when they arrive, as they work, and when they're in transport.

      Heh. You might have guessed, but I don't see bees as "workers", but partners.

      --
      [End Of Line]
  15. What a sick world... by idji · · Score: 2

    ...in which bees are fed glucose instead of going foraging. They are not going out and pollinating the environment and bringing back bio-rich foodstuffs. They are being fed an effectively sterile product from a monoculture, that enhances a monoculture world - bio-feedback with a bad outcome.

  16. This is only the most recent report by Yoik · · Score: 2

    I used to keep bees, but after the FDA approved this class of insecticides (~2004) none of my colonies made it over the winter. The law is that bee-lethal insecticides cannot be used where bees are present, but FDA made an exception for these "systemic insecticides" despite documented evidence of bee harm. I learned about this by 2006 and believe one of my neighbors was an early adopter of this bee poison. I am still waiting for FDA to reverse this approval.

    CCD started getting press soon after, as beekeeping started to dwindle. The cause was controversial, because it wasn't a simple poisoning; the affected bees just disappeared from the hive. The history, and FDA test documents, we're really pretty clear. Bayer and other manufacturers have fought long and hard to keep selling their poison. This study is just one more in a long series. Sometimes they get coverage, usually not.

    The /. comments are interesting, because HFCS has little to do with the story. Bees get the insecticide from nectar and pollen from dosed plants, including fruit trees, that circulate it throughout their system. The test added the insecticide to the HFCS that the bees were being fed, and the authors commented on the difficulty of measuring its concentration in the syrup and speculated on the amount in commercially available corn syrup. The GMO corn doesn't seem to actually have anything to do with the story. I am amused that an issue that is important to me is getting so much play for the worst of reasons.

  17. crap by ClioCJS · · Score: 2

    crap. I am a confused person, apparently. The role of arsenic is different than I thought it was.

    --
    -Clio
    Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
    Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    1. Re:crap by Rie+Beam · · Score: 2

      A more apt example would have been chlorine or sulfur, each of which has a biological role in human beings but not exactly something one would want to chug.

    2. Re:crap by unitron · · Score: 2

      You are confused.

      It's actually different from what you thought it was.

      But the central point of

        "Is it poison? Well, that depends on the size of the dose."

      remains valid.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  18. EU has non-zero limits by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2

    Is the FDA on board with pesticide being passed thru at detectable levels in a supposedly simple processed food product?

    Very likely yes. This article lays out the european limits for it in food as ranging from 0.02 mg/kg in eggs to 3.0 mg/kg in hops. While this is not proof that the US FDA has a non-zero limit usually Europe tends to be more conservative with food regulations (at least they are with things like growth hormones).

    1. Re:EU has non-zero limits by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sorry - got the source of the limits wrong - those limits are from the US EPA so there are acceptable, non-zero limits in the US for food.

  19. Re:Do bees like tobacco plants? by Hartree · · Score: 2

    Nicotine sulfate has been used for a long time as an insecticide (Black Leaf 40 was a well known trade name.). Tobacco plant parts contain nicotine, but not the honey and pollen.

    The neonicotinoids are a bit different. The arrangement of atoms in nicotine is used widely in living things for some of the chemicals that make them run. That's why putting something similar, like nicotine sulfate or the neonicotinoids into them messes them up. It takes the place of nicotinic chemicals and screws up the systems in the cell based on them.

    Insects tend to be more sensitive to some of these nicotinic poisons than mammals and such. This was one of the reasons for adopting neonicotinoids. They are much less toxic to humans and some other animals than many of the other things used as seed coating insecticides. (Remember dieldrin and aldrin?)

  20. Re:Isn't this the third or fourth reason for colla by LanMan04 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Nope, there was a correlation between those viruses and funguses and CCD, but no causal like.

    They researchers give the bees TINY amounts of this pesticide, and POOF, they can create CCD on demand.

    So we know this pesticide causes CCD, and the most likely vector is via HFCS. Bee keepers start feeding bees HFCS in 2005-2006, right when CCD started occurring.

    --
    With the first link, the chain is forged.
  21. Re:How soon before something is done about it thou by tomhath · · Score: 2

    I'd really love a citation for this. Herbicide passed through grass, through cows, through another generation of grass, through different cows, and still proved fatal to plants after it was composted? Not believable.

  22. Biochemical mechanism by tgibbs · · Score: 4, Informative

    It is an irreversible agonist that binds to nicotinic acetylcholine receptors and first activates then blocks them. At high doses it will paralyze muscles. At these low doses it would more likely act by interfering with cognition. Because it is irreversible, it likely has a cumulative effect.