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Wikipedia Mobile Apps Switch To OpenStreetMap

Techdirt reports that the latest versions of Wikipedia's mobile apps have switched to OpenStreetMap from Google Maps. Says Techdirt's commentary: "One wonders how Google didn't see this coming — or if they did, what exactly their strategy is here. OpenStreetMap is gaining a lot of momentum, and in some areas even features much better data. The real lesson here is that there's never an incumbent that isn't at risk of being unseated, no matter how widespread the adoption of their product or service—especially if they make an anti-customer decision like Google when it put a price tag on Maps. The situation also points to the long-term strength of open solutions: while a crowdsourced system like OpenStreetMap never could have put together a global mapping product as quickly as Google did, over time it has become a serious competitor in terms of both quality and convenience."

29 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. Danger Google by GeneralTurgidson · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If this and DuckDuckGo start gaining momentum google may find itself in Altavista's shoes.

    1. Re:Danger Google by lastx33 · · Score: 4, Informative

      If this and DuckDuckGo start gaining momentum google may find itself in Altavista's shoes.

      I agree. Have already switched to DuckDuckGo and it's a breath of fresh air to miss out on the ads and not worry about being tracked. I have contributed to OpenStreetMap and have seen the content on it it grow over the last couple of years at a terrific rate. It has the potential to be an absolute goldmine of information as more people contribute gps tracks and local points of interest.

      --
      "You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead!" - Stan Laurel
    2. Re:Danger Google by TeXMaster · · Score: 5, Informative

      I would like to use DDG too, but the only thing it has which is useful (at least as of now) is the zero-click info-box. The actual search results are quite horrible compared to what Google provides (probably because DDG relies essentially on Bing, which is having huge problems keeping their database in good shape).

      --
      "I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
    3. Re:Danger Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Have already switched to DuckDuckGo and it's a breath of fresh air to miss out on the ads

      Err, apart from the ads that DDG serves?

    4. Re:Danger Google by Sique · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With rare exception, software projects end up half assed, 90% feature complete, and skip implementation of anything difficult. The "it's good enough" approach.

      There. Fixed thad for you.

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      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    5. Re:Danger Google by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Please, show me an open source project that truly rivals Gmail. Do it. One that implements ALL of the features. Including collaborative antispam, Ajax, contacts, archiving. Come on.

      Do one thing, do it well. If you do things the UNIX way, you can easily beat the features and convenience of Gmail.

      And show me how DuckDuckGo's algorithms match Google's. Oh and where's the autocomplete?

      Google's results are crappy these days. And I don't need help typing, thanks.

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    6. Re:Danger Google by selven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With rare exception, projects end up half assed, 90% feature complete, and skip implementation of anything difficult. The "it's good enough" approach.

      Fixed again. cf. Sturgeon's law.

    7. Re:Danger Google by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which will last until duckduckgo starts getting more traffic than is being paid for by the ad's, and suddenly, duckduckgo becomes the next google, where the ads are compulsory. As much as we hate it, we have to realize, the ads pay for these fantastic magical services, so that you don't have to fork over 5$ or 10$ or 15$ a month to use them. Nothing is free. Ever.

      --
      I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
    8. Re:Danger Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Stop fixing it... it's already good enough.

    9. Re:Danger Google by Pathwalker · · Score: 3, Informative

      They've been there for years; haven't you noticed how some drivers mention the organization that sponsored writing them?

  2. Who pays for the tile servers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Acquiring the data isn't the only cost. Serving tiles to millions of clients each day can't be cheap. Who pays for that, if there aren't any ads and the service is free to use?

    1. Re:Who pays for the tile servers? by gl4ss · · Score: 5, Informative

      http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy

      (if you make an app you should mirror the stuff to your own servers.. there's couple of links to services providing tiles based on osm data there)

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Who pays for the tile servers? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, one of the main reasons that I use an OSM app on my phone instead of the Google Maps one (aside from the fact I don't need a corporate stalker) is that it isn't serving tiles to me. I just grab the data once and store it on my phone. That means I can use the maps with my phone's GPS when I'm out of signal range (or somewhere with only GPRS signals, where using Google Maps is a bit painful) or when I'm in a different country and the data roaming charges would make it stupidly expensive.

      The OSM data is licensed in a way that allows redistribution and the project actively encourages people to do this. Clients are allowed to aggressively cache or mirror the data, something which Google or Bing maps do not allow.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Who pays for the tile servers? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What app do you use and what is your work flow? It's been about a year since I've looked into it but it just wasn't a simple. "Do This This and This". I'm going to be traveling to Germany in a few weeks and although my droid will be a useless phone (CDMA) I'd love to take it as a GPS/portable computing device.

      Thanks.

    4. Re:Who pays for the tile servers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can cache maps using Google Maps on Android devices. I've cached the whole area around where I live and can use GPS with it without any Internet connection.

      To cache a map area click somewhere on the map, then click the little arrow on the right that shows more detail, then at the bottom you should see a button labelled "pre-cache map data".

      However, the OSM maps are far far better in my area though, which is reason enough to use them over Google Maps.

    5. Re:Who pays for the tile servers? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I use OSMAnd. With the free version I need to grab the map files manually, although the paid one will download them from in-app. I currently have maps for northern France, Belgium, and the UK on my SD card, taking up a bit over 1GB.

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      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  3. it's not just maps by azery · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The openstreetmap project does provide a fantastic result, but for me it is lacking satellite imaging (as google does) or satellite imaging and aerial pictures (as bing/microsoft does) Having the images can be very handy... I see very often people who need to determine the distance between two points and for that, the images are easier than the maps.

  4. Google didn't see it coming? by iampiti · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well I guess Google carefully considered pros and cons before charging for maps and if they didn't is their problem.
    The summary (yes, I didn't RTFA) seems to imply that the right or normal thing would be that google dominated the maps landscape. Well, obviously they have to compete with everyone else and if a decision makes them lose clients it's their problem. Maybe that loss was calculated and they calculated they'd get more benefits in the long run if they get rid of non-paying customers.

  5. Superior for trails by dargaud · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In my country there are very good 1:25000 maps, but the trails in the wooded areas can be off by hundreds of meters because they we mapped before the time of the GPSs and there's no way to use a theodolite acurately on a forest trail. Come the GPS: I take a track, clean it up a bit, upload it to OSM and the trail is now a lot more accurate than the best maps available...

    --
    Non-Linux Penguins ?
    1. Re:Superior for trails by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Superior for a lot of things. I'm moving to Cambridge soon, and the university accommodation office uses both Bing and Google maps for their web site (no idea why - it seems quite random which one you get). Neither of them even labels all of the colleges, let along the university buildings. In contrast, OSM labels all of the colleges, most of the university buildings, and even a lot of shops, pubs, and restaurants are there by name.

      When I visited a friend in Paris, Google Maps had the street he lived on labelled, but OSM had the building numbers marked as well.

      That said, there are a few places where it is less good. For example, it doesn't have integrated route finding, but there are third-party route finders using the same data. If you want to create a map with one marker on it and send it as a link to someone, you can do it via the OSM web interface, but the UI is pretty horrible. If you want multiple tags, then you need to host your own OpenLayers thing and write some JavaScript. The search feature in OSM is pretty poor as well. It doesn't factor distance into account (although the one on the OSM client on my phone does), so if I search for a street name while looking at a city in the UK, I often have to scroll past a dozen streets in random US cities with the same name before I find the right one.

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      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  6. anti-customer decision? by AngryDeuce · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Last time I checked, maps is still free for people to use, they're just charging for commercial use, but that makes perfect sense. If you're a business, I can't see why you'd be complaining about having to pay a little something that makes it easier for your customers to find you. Nobody is forcing you to use Maps. Go ahead and switch if the expense is too much for you. As TFS states, there are other alternatives.

    Hooray for the free market!

    1. Re:anti-customer decision? by AngryDeuce · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, I suppose that small business will move on to one of those cheap or free alternatives, won't they?

      Google Maps is obviously more than just a map, and the fact that commercial users are so pissed off about the fact that it costs money now proves that there is substantial value in integrating Google Maps, value that they were getting gratis, otherwise they would just say "fuck it" and move on to something else without all the bitching.

      It's not like this is the first time that a commercial user has had to pay for something a private user got for free. Google's a business, too, and I'm sure that it costs them a fortune to maintain and update Maps. Maybe not $10,000 per year, per commercial license, but then again, there's a story right here on Slashdot about how Apple makes $575 per handset sold to Google's $2, and there are plenty of people that see no issue with that, so I don't understand the complaining here.

      Well, unless it's another one of those "Apple deserves to make money hand over fist, but no one else!!" opinions, but I don't bother arguing with those people because they're retarded.

    2. Re:anti-customer decision? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Google Maps is obviously more than just a map, and the fact that commercial users are so pissed off about the fact that it costs money now proves that there is substantial value in integrating Google Maps, value that they were getting gratis, otherwise they would just say "fuck it" and move on to something else without all the bitching.

      The reason businesses are complaining is sunk cost. They spend money developing things using the Google Maps APIs, believing that they were free, and now they're not. Developing with OpenLayers is about as easy and confers the same advantages without needing a licensing cost, although if you're serving a lot of clients then you're expected to serve the tiles yourself, but the software is all free, it's just hardware and bandwidth costs. If Google Maps had been this expensive from the start, then it would not have been a problem - companies would have just not developed things based on it in the first place.

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      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  7. Re:How can a monopoly be broken? by Rich0 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Google doesn't really own any natural monopolies. Android has a big network-effect advantage, as does Google+ (though the latter has very low market share).

    The areas where government really has to step in are things like telecoms (especially when monopoly status is codified in law), and situations where somebody has gotten a huge majority where a network effect matters.

  8. Project Glass by MLCT · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This might be a little "tinfoil hat", and I doubt very much if it is the main reason why google started charging - but I just wonder if longer term thoughts like project glass might factor into their decision.

    Products like Glass are basically just one big world of maps - mapping, satellite, traffic, public transport. Giving that away completely free no-strings-attached forever would just allow others to make products without the overhead that google have to shoulder alone. Something like glass is a long way off, but perhaps there may be a small degree of laying down the norms early on.

    For basic mapping openstreetmap is completely fine, but if all of the finer granularity (streetview, satellite, traffic data) is required then that costs a lot of money to acquire/maintain - and fair enough if google want to start asking those that use it to contribute.

  9. Try open.mapquest.com by gQuigs · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Give http://open.mapquest.com/ a try. It uses OpenStreetMap data while including many mapquest features, including satellite imagery.

  10. Personally by LiroXIV · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think this is more of an ideological move. Google Maps is not free content like Wikipedia itself. OpenStreetMap however, shares many of the same values as Wikipedia itself; such as its use of an environment that encourages contribution by others, the use of licensing that encourages the sharing and rebuilding of content instead of forbidding it, and so on.

  11. Google can't win today... by CaptainLard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not 3 stories ago we get a post about how android is not a good buisiness model because apple is making 250x as much on every i-device sold as google does on every android device (http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/04/08/0546247/google-earns-2-per-handset-apple-575). Perhaps suggesting that its better for business to have the walled garden approach. Now there's this story about how google is losing out because a competitor is more open. Based on that it seems google is toast because they are too open while also not open enough. Seems rough to be getting attacked from all sides but then again, consistent $billions in profit probably soften the blow.

  12. Re:Open Street Maps is like most open projects by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually, I've been pretty impressed with OpenStreetMap and the places I've been. That said, I've also occasionally run into missing and incorrectly labeled things.

    One of the cool things with OSM, though, is that you can fix the issues. Go buy an inexpensive bike GPS (I use a Garmin Edge 205), ride around your neighborhood and map the streets. It's a pretty entertaining way to spend a lazy Sunday afternoon. Getting the data into it can be a little tricky if you're not good with the various file formats, but it's pretty well documented. I would imagine that there are smartphone apps for doing this as well (the person above mentioned Waze)

    If you're more of a couch potato, you can actually go through satellite images and add mapping information from those. Or you can just go through existing maps and enhance them with some local intelligence--I went through and added bike lanes to the streets that I knew had them and added appropriate connections from bike paths to streets. About the only issue you need to be concerned with (from a legal standpoint) is that you should avoid copying information from other maps (eg, Google) until you actually read the terms of service.

    Unlike a lot of open projects, you don't need to be a computer science major to contribute. In this case, you don't even need to be an expert cartographer. So rather than complaining that nobody has updated your area since 2003, go ahead and do it!