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The Space Shuttle Discovery's Last Mile (Video)
Timothy Lord was in the closest civilian parking lot to where the Space Shuttle Discovery touched down from her last flight -- as a passenger on top of a 747, but it was still a space shuttle flying... a flight that was the sad epitaph for an American era. Timothy's shots of the landing approach are much like all the others you've seen. What's interesting is the variety of people he talked with. One came all the way from Tokyo. And there was the young man who got a Master's in Aeronautical Engineering to work on the space program, which sadly shut down, and who is now looking for a job with SpaceX or one of the other private space-bound companies. We hope there are lots of opportunities in the near future for him, and for thousands if not millions of others who want to go into space or, ground-bound, help our efforts to go where only science fiction writers' imaginations have gone before.
After landing at Dulles International Airport in northern Virginia, the shuttle will undergo final preparations to go on display Thursday at the Smithsonian’s National Air and Space Museum annex near the airport.
Which means we'll see yet another last-mile-discovery-travels-story.
“We pledge to take care of her forever,” said retired Gen. John R. “Jack” Dailey, the museum’s director. The shuttle will show young visitors “what America is capable of.”
Not anymore!
Come On! Stop with the dramatics. The space shuttle wasn't flying; a 747 was. Been there, seen that.
The real issue is that the commericalism of space has commenced and the US has no alternative except the Russians for manned spaceflight. SpaceX will require the help of the ISS's robot arm to properly dock with the station. Virgin Galactic won't be viable for LEO any time soon.
Way to give away our lead in space.
To Copy from One is Plagiarism; To Copy from Many is Research.
Extremists may shout "death to america," but they should realize as I do that with this and a million other things we are witnessing the death OF America. Sad
Silence is a state of mime.
I know the space shuttle was flawed, expensive, probably too dangerous, etc etc. But the lesson here is that it will be replaced by... not much.
The shuttle is the most visible sign of humanity in regression: mankind is slowing down - literally, it is more or less abandoning manned space exploration, science is giving way to obscurantism, governments are slowly tightening their grip on their populations, ...
I remember when I was a kid in the 70s, I used to think I might go into space myself, with any luck, before I'm old. I used to think people would be more and more educated, and we were seeing the last vestiges of religiosity clinging on. Technology and education would be victorious, and mankind was on its way to the stars. Bright days ahead I thought...
The exact opposite is happening today. I think it's the sign of the cost of energy: mankind is regressing as cheap energy is disappearing. The shuttle is just one of the things mankind is giving up on.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
It is sad to see the era end. I've been enamored by the space shuttle from the day I first built a model of the shuttle Columbia. I had that model on my desk for years, and it went to school multiple times for show-and-tell. The shuttle program changed many lives, and will continue to do so. The same dreamer that first envisioned a reusable space plane, will be the same ones who re-invent the process and space flight will still be a dream of youngsters in school. I remember both the Challenger & Columbia disasters, and despite the tragedy, the program continued. This end of an era is the beginning of a new one. I never made it to space, but one day my kids might, who knows. I know for myself, a visit to one of these shuttles is in the nearest future possible!
Its a tad sad to see Discovery gutted and turned into a (oversized) museum piece. The Space Shuttles were an inspiring symbol of successful manned spaceflight when I was growing up. Lots of little boys around me wanted to be "Astronauts" or "Pilots" when they grew up, and wanted to visit Cape Canaveral some day, because the Space Shuttle launces were a beautiful and exciting spectacle. RIP Discovery. Symbol of science beating the odds. At least museum visitors will get to take up-close pictures of her now.
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
It really is hard to believe it's all over. I grew up as a schoolboy with the Space Shuttle "coming sometime in the next decade", and then watched the first launch avidly in 1981 - I still remember the exact details of that particular afternoon because it was one of those historic "remembered where you were" moments. I also queued for hours on the M11 to get to see the Shuttle on her UK visit (on the 747 carrier) to Stansted in 1983. Another historic moment was the '86 disaster but that seems strangely more remote in time than the first launch, somehow. I don't know where all those years went, but they did - I'm going to turn 50 this year. From a Brit, it's sad to see this era of early space travel come to an end with nothing much on its way to replace it. Truly historic.
"...to work on the space program, which sadly shut down"
what????? man, why do people keep saying this? The notion that the space program has shut down, or that even human spaceflight has shut down, seems to perpetuate in the same way that Saddam Hussein caused 9/11. Cmon man!!! We've got astronauts on the ISS 24x7 folks and quite a few other programs that NASA is working on!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System
http://www.youtube.com/user/UnitedLaunchAlliance
This is the future:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/04/smaller-quicker-secret-space/all/1
And by the way — if you believe the principles and ideals the US and the West stand for have any value whatsoever, then those principles are still worth defending against those who don't share them, and would desire to project their own...
We are not perfect, but before there is a chorus of responses decrying how the US is somehow "oppressing" its people, I genuinely hope those who believe that never see actual oppression...
Now that is what Slashdot TV should be. Very well done Mr. Lord.
I used to like watching Space Shuttles like you, until I took an arrow in the Space Program
Wait... no time for that - my smartphone is telling me about an update on facebook that someone's kid's poop is purple!
There's nothing bittersweet about this - its just depressing if the obvious things to blame are at work.
Manned space flight is pork while robotic missions (i.e. from JPL) do the real science. And Houston just cannot let go of the pork firehose; just look at the hundreds of millions it took to decommision the shuttles. Ugh. Here we are on the verge of great discoveries on Mars, Europa, and Enceladus, but the robotic missions are being scuttled for the NASA next big manned Rocket to Nowhere....
... should be used here, as pointed out by one guy in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SarfTyngMCE
It flew past my office at about 200 meters on its first pass. I am on an upper floor with beautiful views of DC. I really wish we were allowed cameras because I think I had the best vantage point of anyone.
A coworker slipped out on the roof and got some good pics, If I can get the copies Ill post them here.
The chase plane was literally overhead from our position on the pass.
Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
For the vast majority of people, it's "sad" only because they weren't even aware of the $1b/launch cost, let alone having it be automatically debited from their bank account.
Actually, according to this nutjob it's because we stopped oppressing women and overpopulating the planet that the space shuttle program has ended:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_the_space_shuttle_program_ending
5 Horrifying Facts You Didn't Know About the Space Shuttle and this one, which is linked in the above story.... For Parts, NASA Boldly Goes . . . on eBay
The way the article puts things you'd think we were all crawling back into caves now.
In fact the opposite is true. We are casting off an albatross around our necks and are at the dawn of a real golden age of space travel - one that does require whole governments bent to the singular task of getting a ship up a few times year.
No, instead we get multiple companies giving us more frequent space travel, for humans and cargo alike.
We humans land on Mars, it will not be a government that sends them there.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Our modern world is very inward-focused. If it's not on the ego, it's on those social problems that never go away. These may be important, but I think space exploration is more important. Humanity does its best when it has a frontier, and some goal to shoot for. That fills us with a sense of hope and power. That in turn pushes us to be better than we were. When we stop exploring the stars and look inward, there's really nothing of interest left, just some intractable problems. The Romans couldn't fix them, the Greeks couldn't fix them, and we can't either. That kind of mentality could make people depressed and stubbornly selfish.
mankind is slowing down - literally, it is more or less abandoning manned space exploration, science is giving way to obscurantism, governments are slowly tightening their grip on their populations, ...
You seem to be confusing the USA with "mankind". Europe and Russia's space programs are still strong, China, India and Brazil are recent newcomers expanding their space programs, science is still strong in the civilized world and people in Europe are no less free than they were before 9/11.
A fix to the embedded video player, please!! (Or a link to the full-width youtube version. Please!)
Searched for "come out of the closet" comments. Disappointed to find out that it was "closest".
One of the most amazing things that I have seen was a shuttle launch. I was close enough to watch it from lift-off all the way until it wasn't visible in the sky anymore; basically as close as you can get without being invited to sit in the bleachers inside the Space Center. More than anything, I remember the sound and the profound feeling of national pride. I felt a connection to my father, whose face still involuntarily conveys a feeling of wonder and awe when he talks about the moon landing. Experiences like that lead me to become a scientist. I have mixed feelings now, knowing that my son will never have a chance to see it for himself, but that he may some day be able to buy a ticket to go to space himself. Let's hope he can afford business class.
Actually, I wrote my thesis on life experience.
We are not perfect, but before there is a chorus of responses decrying how the US is somehow "oppressing" its people, I genuinely hope those who believe that never see actual oppression...
I do not understand this stance. Waiting to decry oppression until the oppression is among the worst available does not seem like an optimal solution to me. Would you allow just a little bit of poisoning in your food? I mean, other people are dying from it while it will merely make you sick, so that's surely not something to complain about, right? Vigilance is necessary to defend freedom. It doesn't take vigilance to see that Somalia isn't free; complaining about seemingly small abrogations of our rights is exactly what is required to keep them. Real-world examples abound. How do you reconcile this with your condescending relativism?
Killing off the Manned Space program was a huge error and a real tragedy for the USA.
The whole world has watched the US Space program in awe, and the technological benefits that have trickled down into everyday life for Billions are immense and a huge payback on the investment that it took to put a Man on the Moon.
The fact that today, the USA has no way to put a Man into LEO is truly depressing.
Newt is a dork, but at least he had one good idea, revitalize the USA's Space program. And do it big. Like everything else that the USA has done that was worthwhile.
O'bama (that fine Irish lad) just doesn't get it.
The space station is like some antarctic outpost, only less interesting. I don't expect any new science out of it. It isn't acting as a launching off point to higher orbit or long range exploration. Its an international flag pole. Maybe if we ran a national lottery to send someone new up every month.
Dictatorships are always more effective for getting specific things done in a long-term sense. Democracies are better at producing wealth, because people prefer to live in them. I don't know where this leaves us, but you're right that their more powerful central command structure helps the Chinese be fierce competitors and eventually, a fierce military threat.
It's rare to see so much hyperbolic balderdash on slashdot. The shuttle was practically designed with slide rules and is at this point a technological embarrassment. It's impressive for when it was made, but so was the Commodore 64. That's the best humanity has to offer? I sincerely say hello no. Who in their right minds thinks the US government and a politically controlled agency can do anything right? Do you really want the government in charge of something as important as space travel? The government is incapable of doing ANYTHING efficiently, on time, or on budget. All this romanticism about "ohh I love seeing burning fuel shooting up into the sky" and the sentiment that things are going to hell and there will never be anything as good... is the sentiment of old people who are on their way out. Get off of my fucking lawn and make room for the future - what a bunch of whining has-beens. Today is here, you can do absolutely anything. Quit living in the past and get out and do something that makes the past look as pathetic as it is. Or cry over your chamomile tea about how kids today don't appreciate how awesome buggies used to be.
Although I don't disagree with the point, I do think that a better example of our regression is that we have stopped living in the supersonic era. Deliberately ignoring the Russian input into this, Concorde really was the first and last supersonic airliner. Although I accept that there were several factors in it's downfall, it cannot be ignored that there are no major aircraft companies with an interest in producing a replacement. Surely it must be easier to produce an efficient supersonic aircraft than it was 40 odd years ago. So much of today's businesses are focused only on the bottom line. In fact, ironically, space is the exception. I can't honestly believe that the likes of SpaceX, Virgin etc feel sure of success. Are they not showing the kind of imagination that seems to have been lost by organizations such as NASA?
Actually, Discovery serves as the "Vehicle of Record" among the retired shuttles. Atlantic & Endevour have donated a lot more parts to the SLS program.
“If using components off of the orbiters can help that happen, then we’re all for that, so I think we came to a good compromise in the sense of pretty much leaving Discovery as the vehicle of record. We didn’t take as much out of Discovery, but then we are taking out of Endeavour and Atlantis those components so that we can help SLS, so I think it was a good compromise between the programs.”
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/03/vehicle-record-sls-discovery-mps/
--- rapper/producer/bachelorette party stripper
We humans land on Mars, it will not be a government that sends them there.
Correct. It will be the Union Aerospace Corporation instead.
Two points:
1) At the risk of starting a flame war, the world's manned (crewed..., whatever) space program began its slow down when the last crewed Apollo-Saturn V launched in 1972. Neither the US nor any other country has produced a crewed vehicle which could reach earth escape velocity since then. The shuttle turned out to be a very expensive and long delaying regression to earth orbit only. Perhaps we can get back to going forward and outward now.
2) You are correct that the maximum speed that a few select humans can go has been higher in the past -- retirement of SR-71 and Concorde apply here, too, but with the general expansion of air and automobile travel worldwide the "average" (whatever that is) person has access to more mobility and speed of mobility than ever.
It doesn't take vigilance to see that Somalia isn't free
Right, which is why it's really important to use words like "oppression" to identify actually oppressive situations, not circumstances in which people tweeting about their ennui on their smartphones call themselves oppressed when they have to actually pay the bills they agreed to pay when they decided to spend four years in an expensive liberal arts college getting a degree in something for which there is no market.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
There is no need for a replacement. Nobody wanted to pay that much money to fly on that thing. That's the economic reality. Just because you can do something does not mean people will pay for it.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Although I accept that there were several factors in it's downfall, it cannot be ignored that there are no major aircraft companies with an interest in producing a replacement. Surely it must be easier to produce an efficient supersonic aircraft than it was 40 odd years ago.
The main factor was that it cost a colossal amount of money to make a journey only about twice as fast. Twice as fast is amazing, but when you're talking "most of the day on a plane" versus "half a day on a plane", there's not a huge fundamental advantage for most average Joe's. Millionaires and rich businessmen loved it, but there just aren't enough of those to make a business case for it.
Until someone can come up with supersonic aircraft for less money, there's no point trying it again. And you can bet your rear end that the likes of Boeing and Airbus (who are constantly competing to make bigger, fast, more luxurious planes than each other) will do it as soon as they figure out how.
You seem to be confusing the "USA" with something else. The US space program isn't suddenly "weak" because we don't have an active manned spaceflight capability. Have you kept track of recent US space exploration and satellite programs, none of which require a human to be aboard? We — the "USA" and the free world at large — are adding to the body of knowledge faster than at any time in human history. The achievements of the USA, Europe, and to an extent the former USSR, are what much of the rest of the world has relied upon for scientific advancement in recent history.
"9/11" has zero to do with this argument. People like to talk about how freedoms have been lost, but aside from isolated anecdotes or complaints about airport security, no one is typically able to identify a freedom that they have ACTUALLY LOST. That is, something they could do before, but can't now. Freedom is not black or white, and the US — and Europe — has never had absolute freedom. Meanwhile, there are plenty of nations, including China, which demonstrate a significant and severe curtailing of citizens' freedoms, to say nothing about Syria, Iran, the Taliban, etc.
In the US, Europe, and the rest of the free world we learn more about the world and the workings of our government, faster, and in more detail, than at any previous point in history. A large part of this is due to the internet and the commitment that the US, Europe, and our allies demonstrate to internet freedom — but would the internet as we know it today have existed without the US, and its academic, military, and space programs? This is not to denigrate Europe in the least, but the answer is almost certainly: not likely.
So bash the US all you want...but if you believe Europe will continue along happily without a significant counterbalance to ideals that run counter to freedom and democracy I doubt you would like the way the world would look. China and Russia are not standing still in their hopes to displace the US at every turn — both are waiting in the wings to expand their presence in Afghanistan as the US draws down; China is displacing the US in South America; and regimes in the mideast are not going to suddenly become peaceful and free.
When we stop exploring the stars and look inward, there's really nothing of interest left, just some intractable problems. The Romans couldn't fix them, the Greeks couldn't fix them, and we can't either. That kind of mentality could make people depressed and stubbornly selfish.
When the fuck did Slashdot become so disgustingly ignorant? Take your bootstraps and self serving propagandist bullshit elsewhere.
Title: The Space Shuttle Discovery's Last Mile
Description: An amazing variety of people turned out to watch the Space Shuttle Discovery's last landing ever. Slashdot's Timothy Lord talked with some of them.
[00:00] <TITLE>
The SlashdotTV logo bar reading "Thousands of people watched space shuttle Discovery's last flight. Timothy Lord talked with a few of them" over a view of the space shuttle Discovery on the back of the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft (an extensively modified Boeing 747) as it descends with people whooping and applauding.
[00:16] <TITLE>
Throughout the interview various interviewees appear, some with name indicated in a SlashdotTV logo bar, some without.
Those without will be indicated by descriptive title.
[00:16] Patsy and Robert Davis, brother and Sister>
Robert> We're from Fairfax, Virginia.
Patsy> And where'd you get your shirt?
Robert> I got my shirt [at] Kennedy Space Center years ago when the Discovery took off.
Patsy> And my shirt is.. now; the Discovery arriving here in D.C.
[00:35] Young girl in front of van>
It was really cool.
[00:37] Young boy in front of van>
It was really big.
[00:38] Man interviewing a dog, pictured>
Are you gonna bark at that airplane?
[00:40] Timothy>
Had you seen other launches before?
[00:41] Man with beard and older man in hat in front of a red van>
Man> Never been to a launch.
Man> This is history *laughs*
Older man> I've been to ones at Cape Kennedy, a couple of 'm.
Older man> Saw the space shuttle blow up.
Older man> You know, I was in West Palm Beach, Florida, at the time and, about, I guess about a minute it took off - it was over the horizon for most - took about a minute before we saw it comin' up.
[01:03] Francis and Nathan Dorsey>
Nathan> We're here to see - what I was amazingly enough just explaining to him when you came up - shuttle history.
Nathan> This is, for me, the last time we're gonna see the shuttle fly - so to speak - so I wanted him to be a part of that.
Nathan> I've been a space buff since I was.. before his age, actually.. and I've seen several launches - no landings, unfortunately.
Nathan> I followed the space program since the Mercury days.
[01:32] <TITLE>
The SlashdotTV logo bar appears, reading "All the way from Tokyo, just to see the last space shuttle landing".
[01:32] Timothy>
Could you tell us your name, and how to spell it?
[01:35] Chie>
Chie
[01:38] Timothy>
And where did you come from today?
[01:40] Chie>
From Japan, Tokyo.
[01:43] Man in cap with family>
Best birthday ever!
[01:45] Man in sunglasses>
Well, it flew right over us, had my daughters on my shoulders, and we couldn't really get a picture - but it was pretty cool, I would say!
[01:55] Woman with glasses>
It went right over our heads as we were stuck on the highway in traffic.
[01:58] Young man in sunglasses>
We're from Tucson, Arizona, coming here to see the museum and then we saw it fly right over our heads as we were sitting on the freeway there.
[02:05] Boy in white shirt>
Awesome, but like the true definition of 'awesome', and not the overused version, I guess.
You know, it flew directly over our heads and it's pretty awe-inspiring to see a space shuttle on a 747 flying right above you.
[02:19] Woman with family in a car>
I pulled my kids out of school today, because I believe this is history in the making, and it's science.
When Discovery was supposed to be launched back in January I was going to pull my kids out of school, make a nice road trip to Florida, but it was cancelled because of weather.
then they rescheduled it for February, so I was gonna drive 'm again, but it was cancelled.
Then it went off in March, but I couldn't pull my kids out of school 3 times to road trip to Florida, so this was the next best thing -
Great example! Many people won't understand your use of theatrics to help me make a point, but some will, so thanks. The implication (that by looking first to their own interests, rather than forcing someone else to given them stuff, people are actually oppressing the people to whom they're not gladly being forced to give free stuff) is perfectly toned. You couldn't have simulated the entitlement-minded, Nanny-state-loving, born-being-owed-someone-else's-labors mentality any better. Your use of deliberately insulting, angry words is pitch-perfect as you paint your portrait of such people, who inevitably resent the very people they insist on having as their forced patrons. Well done, sir.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Different view of the landing - shaky cam, and bad audio to boot : http://youtu.be/p3Xyj-KIuUg
--WooooHoooo--
The shuttle is the most visible sign of humanity in regression: mankind is slowing down - literally, it is more or less abandoning manned space exploration, science is giving way to obscurantism, governments are slowly tightening their grip on their populations, ...
I remember when I was a kid in the 70s, I used to think I might go into space myself, with any luck, before I'm old. I used to think people would be more and more educated, and we were seeing the last vestiges of religiosity clinging on. Technology and education would be victorious, and mankind was on its way to the stars. Bright days ahead I thought...
The exact opposite is happening today. I think it's the sign of the cost of energy: mankind is regressing as cheap energy is disappearing. The shuttle is just one of the things mankind is giving up on.
You are being overly dramatic and entirely wrong.
While in your glory days of yore mankind shot up a few monkeys (and the occasional chimp or dog) in a tin can once in a while, we now have a complement of 6 scientists (by any 70s standard) living in space all year round.
While in the 80s I could spend a trimester in high school trying to get a computer to draw a mandelbrot apple in 4 colours in the space of 1 hour, and get an A for it, kids these days load up a fractal program and explore whichever set they want in detail with limitless real-time zooming capabilities.
While I could write a school paper about any old subjects based on what I could find out about it from the 2 books and 3 encyclopedias in the school library back in the 70s, these days you type something in google and find more literature about it than you can read in a lifetime.
Mankind is not regressing, your body is. It's called getting old. The danger is to let your mind regress with it by making up entirely false doom scenarios like this. Kids these days still dream of going into space. And when they are 30 or 40 years older, like you they will wake up one day and find out that they will never get there in their lifetime.
Explain to me what LA had to do with the space program? How could Houston, the center of mission control, NOT get a retired shuttle?
Have you kept track of recent US space exploration and satellite programs, none of which require a human to be aboard?
I have, have you? The number of launches in the USA has steadily declined from mid-30s in the late 90s to 15-20 in the last few years.
People like to talk about how freedoms have been lost, but aside from isolated anecdotes or complaints about airport security,
"Isolated anecdotes or complaints"?? The entire USA population is subject to be groped or looked at in the nude at the airport. These are not isolated anecdotes, this is every day life.
no one is typically able to identify a freedom that they have ACTUALLY LOST.
Either they exist only in your imagination or they are not very bright. All they need to do is point to the Patriot Act for a list.
Among freedoms and rights lost are the freedom to fly without government issued ID, the freedom to take pictures of airports, the freedom not to have your computer communications intercepted without a warrant. You don't have to trust me on this one, as parts of the Patriot Act have already been found unconstitutional by the courts.
"9/11" has zero to do with this argument.
Right, the Patriot Act has zero to do with 9/11.
You are a troll.
I have, have you? The number of launches in the USA has steadily declined from mid-30s in the late 90s to 15-20 in the last few years.
Yes. I have. And the effectiveness and reliability of our space launches, missions, and systems is the best in the world. Not to sound trite, but quantity doesn't equal quality.
"Isolated anecdotes or complaints"?? The entire USA population is subject to be groped or looked at in the nude at the airport. These are not isolated anecdotes, this is every day life.
Yes, "isolated anecdotes or complaints". "Being looked at nude at the airport"? Really? The millimeter wave advanced imaging systems show a generic outline of a person with a box identifying a suspicious area. The backscatter X-ray systems have controls designed to enforce privacy.
And you can opt out of ALL advanced imaging. How do I know? Because I fly routinely, and opt out routinely — and no, I'm not "punished" or "targeted" because of it.
Either they exist only in your imagination or they are not very bright. All they need to do is point to the Patriot Act for a list.
Okay, please show me the "list". And yes, this is a rhetorical question. Most of the "Patriot Act" was simply updates to woefully outdated legislation. It is a very large act that impacted a large body of law, and very few of its provisions caused a large amount of controversy — and that's what happens in our legislative and judicial systems: panic and a rush when "something happens", give and take, controversy, and compromise until equilibrium is reached.
Among freedoms and rights lost are the freedom to fly without government issued ID
I flew without ID as a selectee numerous times until the TSA implemented a measure that disallows persons from refusing to show ID associated with a boarding pass simply because they feel like it. The TSA officer at the podium couldn't care less who you are. All they're looking at is to see that your ID matches a boarding pass. Yes, it's been demonstrated how this can be easily circumvented, but it's just one layer of security, and one of the ways that can help a No-Fly list be effective. Can it be defeated, and can you book a flight with a name not on the No-Fly list and use a fake ID? Or book a flight with a name belonging to a "real" ID with the wrong picture, and then create a fake boarding pass? Absolutely. Security experts have demonstrated this, and no doubt TSA's own red team activities has repeatedly documented such vulnerabilities. Is the concept of a No-Fly list, or ID/boarding pass matching perfect? Nope. But nothing is. And I'm perfectly open to arguments about effectiveness of the TSA in general. But is matching an ID to a boarding pass when the agent to whom you show it literally doesn't care who you are "taking away your rights"?
the freedom to take pictures of airports
False.
False.
The content of the communications of US Persons is OFF LIMITS without a warrant. Interpreting the METADATA of communications has always been allowable without a warrant, which is REQUIRED to identify and discern the communications of non-US Persons, some of which travels via equipment and networks within the US, and does NOT require a warrant (and never has).
You don't have to trust me on this one, as parts of the Patriot Act have already been found unconstitutional by the courts.
The fact that a part(s) of ANY duly-passed legislation can be later found to be unconstitutional by a court of competent jurisdiction is exactly how our system of law works.
Right, the Patriot Act has zer
And yet what would a private company ever get out of a Mars mission?
You really cannot see the value of the land the first people there will acquire and keep?
You seem to understand nothing of history, nor the obvious future.
You also seem to think that companies ONLY do things for money, which is at this point a frankly insane view giving the crap companies pull all the time.
There is so much cache to be first to set foot there, and as I stated the long term vast economic interest, I just cannot understand anyone who does not see this as inevitable. The only reason I say it will be a private company rather than a government is private companies can always move faster and cheaper, not even China could beat private companies at this point even un-encumbered with pesky things like need for approval from the populace.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I remember when I was a kid in the 70s, I used to think I might go into space myself
Elon Musk is going to retire on Mars. He'll sell you a ticket too.
By all indications he's going to do it. His cargo ship docks with the ISS in a couple weeks.
I seem to recall a recent story that he'll be selling lunar orbits for $500K in the coming decade. That might be too much for a refrigerator salesman, but for over two million Americans that's just one year's income. If just one half of one percent of those people take him up on it, that's ten thousand new astronauts, and a new launch to the moon every day for five years (assuming 5 passengers, two crew).
By contrast, government spaceflight programs get in a big huff when one rich businessman buys a seat on a trip to the ISS from the Russians.
In short, we've never been closer to realizing your dream.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)