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Artificial DNA Replicates and 'Evolves'
ananyo writes "Scientists have demonstrated that several lab-made variants of DNA can store and transmit information much like the genuine article. DNA is made up of nucleic acid bases — labelled A, C, G and T — on a backbone made of phosphates and the sugar deoxyribose. The artificial polymers, dubbed XNAs, carry the normal genetic 'alphabet' on a backbone made using different sugars. The researchers engineered enzymes that transcribed DNA into the various XNAs, then back into new DNA strands. Faithful genetic transmission over successive DNA-to-XNA cycles allowed researchers to select for only those XNAs that attached to certain target proteins from a pool of random samples — a process akin to evolution over multiple generations (abstract). The research confirms for the first time that replication, heredity and evolution can take place in artificial DNA-like molecules."
Possible to store all written knowledge in a cat?
Take it one step further, if we start breeding some computers, they could evolve to become more and more powerful while we all just relax and play video games. As we all get lazier and lazier, this is the eventual outcome; we will become obsolete when we stop adapting and the key limitation for any computer system is that the system is not able to improve itself. With this kind of DNA replication theory tested and proved, we now can use this to facilitate a computer chip that improves itself.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
The research confirms for the first time that replication, heredity and evolution can take place in artificial DNA-like molecules.
That is pretty impressive. Up til now I was firmly of the opinion that chemistry only worked properly in natural molecules.
Is it that hard to type out adenine guanine cytosine and thymine? Even my cereal box has thymine written on the side!
The ability to "breed" chemicals that bond to specific proteins sounds like it could cure a boatload of previously incurable diseases. I'm not sure that is what the researchers are going for, but to me, this sounds like "miracle cure" type stuff.
Bacteria/virus/tumor cells/prions go in, perfectly tailored antibody components come out. Attach some highly reactive oxides/chlorides and you have a targeted antibiotic. At least that's how the science fiction version of this would go.
welcome our new Descoladores overlords.
FTFS: "...allowed researchers to select for only those XNAs that attached to certain target proteins from a pool of random samples — a process akin to evolution over multiple generations."
It sounds overreaching to call this "evolution" if the researchers are selecting the better-performing samples. Incredibly cool, amazing breakthrough, but not evolution...
No, faithful genetic transmission is the exact opposite of the mutation necessary for a process akin to evolution.
Only if we combine it with toasters.
With this kind of DNA replication theory tested and proved, we now can use this to facilitate a computer chip that improves itself.
What is the learning environment that defines what "improves" means?
I've studied artificial intelligence extensively and there's a whole lot of effort going into reinforcement learning, genetic annealing, etc. But the key thing to remember with DNA is that the Earth provided this environment for it to be tested in and be given feedback. The feedback was and still is exceptionally harsh in that you either died or adapted. On top of that, the DNA lead to things that eventually competed with each other.
The problem with computer chips is that there is no fundamental death/life reward system unless we as humans implement it. And there will always be a need for us to do this because nature doesn't care about logic gates, we do. If you make a set of chips to provide an environment for incubating and reward or punishing the first set of chips, you merely have another layer where humans must evaluate and instruct the chips as to what it is that we want.
Faithful genetic transmission over successive DNA-to-XNA cycles allowed researchers to select for only those XNAs that ...
Unfortunately, in order to impose your will (no matter how lazy you wish to be) you still must define your will. And I think you'll see that it becomes a major effort when trying to set up automated systems like you propose.
Simply said: define "improves." Putting the chips outside and pitting them against each other in nature isn't gonna do it. The ability to direct harmful radiation will probably win out over gigahertz or logic gates per area.
My work here is dung.
So if we can engineer different forms of XNA that are compatible with DNA replication, we can build some additional functions into them. Like the ability to pattern match strings of XNA based on magnetic or electrical properties. Think about genetic RFID tags.
Since it might be possible to introduce these tagged sugar molecules through the food supply, the day will come when the TSA contracts to supply all your kids their school lunches.
Have gnu, will travel.
I've dabbled with XNAs before. They start out cornflower blue, and eventually evolve into video games.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
I'm far more worried what companies like Monsanto could do with this.
However, if they can be easily engineered, and not just replicate existing DNA through a selection process, which seems to be the first step, I see some pretty radical possibilities for medicinal use, replacing or augmenting faulty or damaged DNA.
Until the religious get their panties in a knot about messing with creation, that is.
Replicants are like any other machine - they're either a benefit or a hazard. If they're a benefit, it's not my problem.
Man has become God.
God want his share of the profits now....
Completely ignoring the elephant in the room: the assiduous intelligence needed to assemble the stuff.
Cranky educator.
The researchers just created a very simple life form (if it evolves, it is alive for any usefull pourpose here) from molecules that are expected to be created at random at the earlier times of our planet. Now somebody just needs to calculate the probability of those molecules appearing and interacting anywhere on the planet, and we have a lower value for the probability of life appearing on Earth.
Of course, that's different life from we, as we likely come from the evolution of RNA molecules.
Rethinking email
Well, at least we were forewarned.
Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you are pleased. But when you see your images which came into being before you, and which neither die nor become manifest, how much you will have to bear!
--Thomas
~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
"Faithful genetic transmission over successive DNA-to-XNA cycles allowed researchers to select for only those XNAs that attached to certain target proteins from a pool of random samples — a process akin to evolution over multiple generations."
A material's just being "sticky" is no kind of confirmation of the sequence uniformity. They would have to be sequenced to confirm this.
The article only provides the most superficial description, and this is Science and Nature, though it also smacks of some (by no means atypical these days) grand-standing.
Bukowski said it. I believe it. That settles it.
Current theory holds that it took about 3 billion years to go from nucleic acids to complex multicellular organisms. So I'm not going to worry about it until at least after they gain a plasma membrane.
A higher order being created with 100% XNA would be stark proof to the doubters that man can create life or better said they would be forced to confront "unreal" life forms.
Beware of Shoggoths.
Geez Louise! Just wait until M$'s litigation division hears someone using their "XNA" brand --- holy shyster hell is about to break loose, with Nathan Myrvold's Intellectual Ventures' scam not far behind.........
:p
Never antropomorphize computers, they do not like that
The resulting debate should be VERY entertaining.
I'm leaning more towards 'stupid' than entertaining.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Since when science says that intelligence cannot induce evolution? I don't think any scientist would be surprised as you suggested. God-like intelligence will certainly be aware of the laws of nature and be able to create whatever....the issues with the God hypothesis lie elsewhere. Who is the evolutionist who says that "intelligence did it" is not a hypothesis to be considered? Of course it is - this is where Darwin (and the ones before him) started. "Argument of design" rings a bell? It used to be called proof, not argument, that should tell you a great deal. The important thing is that evolution offers simpler explanation, supported by facts and does not require meddling intelligence, thus avoiding the other issues of introducing creator with a capital "c". Besides, the whole history of the universe is a story of complexity bred from simplicity (few forces, matter/energy) and time. Life is no exception. No surprises, really..
Anyway, soon we will see Ridley Scott's view on this issue. As far as I understood Prometheus is exactly about intelligence meddling with biology/evolution.
"The problem with computer chips is that there is no fundamental death/life reward system unless we as humans implement it. And there will always be a need for us to do this because nature doesn't care about logic gates, we do. If you make a set of chips to provide an environment for incubating and reward or punishing the first set of chips, you merely have another layer where humans must evaluate and instruct the chips as to what it is that we want."
Don't despair, this is how humans have hade breeding programs for the domestic animals like cattle, goats, sheep, horses, cats, and dogs for millennia.
So, of course we will have evaluate them at some points before we can hope to use them.
MAFIA shill:
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Anti-MAFIA dude:
- G.O.D. should do well to promote his products without the help of the corporations! That is why He is starving - have you seen the contracts? Go indie, G.O.D. !
Anonymous coward (agent from the North Korean propaganda center):
- G.O.D. does not exists! This is a plot of the imperialists to destroy our perfect society!
Anonymous coward (die-hard right-wing):
- The case with G.O.D. is going to be used by the government to enact more control and further slide us into Communism!
(former) Atheists:
- I did not believe in G.O.D. But now that He has manifested Himself through His lawyers I find the situation outrageous! We find Him destitute; His work stolen by pirates! I ask: where are all those "religious" leaders now! They claimed for thousands of years that they they were doing His work and they could not protect the dearest possessions of every intelligent being - His Intellectual Property?! Ridiculous! I demand that all due compensations as defined by the lawyers be paid by all religious organizations in the world!
Religious organizations:
- Holy shit!
Current theory holds that it took about 3 billion years to go from nucleic acids to complex multicellular organisms.
Yeah, but current theory also holds that nobody was trying to do that on purpose.
[cue Tennessee jokes]
Membranes aren't plasma they're fatty acids. Pretty easy to do this part too, they're self organizing. That is of you introduce individual fatty acid molecules into water they clump together and form sheets, they keep on going and because of the geometry of the molecule they end up forming, wait for it, perfect spheres.
Our celllar membanes have two layers of these, the "bilayer phospholipid membrane". Actually all animals too, plants have cell walls.
Need Mercedes parts ?
... uh, dude, the lipid bilayer is also called the plasma membrane. They're synonyms.
And for the record, fatty acid is NOT a synonym for phospholipid. Fatty acids by themselves are nonpolar and hydrophobic. Introduce them to water and they'll clump up together. In order to create micelles, liposomes, or a plasma membrane/cell membrane spontaneously in water, they need to be amphipathic. They need to have a polar, hydrophillic region. The fatty acid chains are attached to polar head groups. The polar head groups stick to the water side, and the fatty acid chains clump up together, excluded by the water. The result of that is the sheets and bubbles you mentioned.
When your self-replication is imperfect, just claim that it also has 'evolution' included.