Aussie Parliamentary Inquiry Into Software Pricing Announced

New submitter elphie007 writes "Australian consumers may finally see the end of being overcharged for software simply because they live outside the U.S. Minister for Communications Senator Stephen Conroy (champion of Australia's National Broadband Network) is reported to be finalizing the terms of reference for a parliamentary inquiry into software pricing in Australia. Last week, Adobe announced Australians would be charged up to $1,600 more for Adobe CS6. With the ongoing strength of the Aussie dollar against the U.S. dollar, Australians should really be paying less, not more for software & music purchased online."

Comments

To be fair

[symbolset]

Translating text and manuals to Australian isn't free.

Re:To be fair

[Netshroud]

All you have to do is script 180 degree rotation on every page.

Re:To be fair

[fostware]

Just rename the UK English...

It's not like the US doesn't know Engli...

Nevermind....

Re:To be fair

[Zerth]

The US price is 1300. Even including GST, that is in nearly double the US price. Considering the Aus $ trade for $1.04 USD, that's outrageous even including currency exchange costs.

Re:To be fair

[the_B0fh]

jesus. no matter how stupid the topic is, you can find an apologist for it. Here're the rebuttal points:

1) USA is the most lawsuit happy country in the world. If the company can do business in USA, and the price covers the cost of lawsuits, then the same price will cover the price of lawsuits in Australia.

2) WTF are you smoking on development taxes? *NOBODY* pays fucking taxes on writing software, only on selling it. If you are talking about salaries of developers and so on, then shouldn't there be a *DISCOUNT* since it's so much cheaper to develop it elsewhere?!

3) I guarantee you Adobe has already figured out the taxing regulations previously, and it's fucking sunk cost. The cost of figuring out the tax regulations (as a delta against US tax regulations) do not recur yearly. If there are changes, it's the same kind of changes that happen in USA, and obviously Adobe USA can handle it, so why can't Adobe Australia?

You're full of shit.

Re:To be fair

[cheekyboy]

At least australia wont send you to gitmo or send some fake FBI to arrest you with false warrants.

Dude, all adobe is selling is a serial # for activation, it doesnt matter where one lives. I know you americans are poor and cant afford 20 tacos for lunch daily with their 4 gallon coke drinks.

Stop asserting MAYBEs.

My AU$ converted to US$ electronically is done automatically via Visa or Paypal, and at only 1-2% rates. NOT your imaginary 10%, high street 711 stand.

Buying a serial # from USA is not the same as importing products into AU. From adobes point of view, I an AU customer should be identical to an American.

Stop lying, american corporates are charging Au, Eu, Asia, everyone higher prices to subsidise the dismal crap economy in mainland USA. If you had zero foreign sales, your local ones will send you bankcrupt, but thats no reason to RIPOFF the planet, or all AU customers should just use a friend or proxy contact in usa to buy from usa.

Re:To be fair

[rgbrenner]

1300 is the price for the absolute cheapest version of Adobe CS6. The article says "UP TO" so we can assume that is for the most expensive version. The Adobe site says the Master Collection is $2600:
http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite.html?kw=p&sdid=JRSIM&skwcid=TC|22178|adobe%20CS6||S|e|10550251960

Second, the article says it is "up to 1400 more", not 1600.

So 4000/2600 = 54% markup in Australia.

Re:To be fair

[moss45]

Australia has a GST tax. Just figuring out if you are liable for this will cost you a bundle.

Figuring out whether you are liable for GST takes about 5 minutes. Registering for GST would take a few hours. Nearly every company in Australia registers for GST, so the government made it extremely simple. These things are such a marginal cost that it is ridiculous to use them as a reason for significant price differences.

Re:To be fair

[nedlohs]

As for the strength of the Australian dollar, that is purely a rubbish argument, because US companies typically price their software in US dollars, and let the exchange rate take care of itself.

They clearly don't. 10 years ago the AUD was worth US$0.50, now it's worth US$1. Software prices in Australia are not 50% less than they were (relative to US prices).

For example Office Professional Edition 2003 was announced at US$499 in 2003 in the US, but at AUD$899 in Australia. The AUD was worth USD$0.65 at the time. So the Australian version was USD$584 and USD$53 of that is GST giving a $32 or 6% premium over the US price which no one complained about since that's reasonable.

Now Microsoft Office Professional 2010 (2 PC/1 user version) is AUD$849 in Australia. It is USD$499.95 in the US. The AUD is currently worth USD$1.05. So the Australian version is USD$891 of which USD$81 is GST giving a USD$310 or 62% premium.

Notice even though the AUD has increased in value by about 60% in that time frame the relative USD/AUD prices have essentially remained unchanged (wooho a $50 reduction in Oz).

Australians wish they priced in USD, since then prices would have fallen by almost half over that time frame.

So how do you explain a 6% premium turning into a 60% premium? What massive changes product liability and taxation systems do you think happen in Australia?

Australia has a GST tax. Just figuring out if you are liable for this will cost you a bundle. Collecting it and dealing with it from Chicago will cost you more in terms of staff time, and hiring work done in Australia.

Oh sure. It's real hard. If you are you selling it in Australia then you add 10% to the price and send that in to the government. If you are selling it outside of Australia then you do nothing. Wow, that's so complicated! All software qualifies for the GST making it even simpler to work out.

Re:To be fair

[Mashiki]

Well I'll be honest. As a Canadian I know exactly what Aussies are going through, we've been dealing with it for decades and we're next to the US. It took a hell of a long time for it to change, the worst offenders were books. Seeing a list price on the back of $5.99USD and $11.99CDN with the dollar at parity broke the back of everyone on the issue. It was the same for software back about 15 years ago too. $49-59USD and $79-89CDN, until people said screw it and started ordering stuff from the US via backshop mailers who were willing to cut the price by $10.

Re:To be fair

[moss45]

US price= US$2599

Aus price= AUD$3949= US$4134

US/AUS= 2599/4134= 0.62

So not double but still a 60% increase (50% when you take into account GST)

Re:To be fair

[commlinx]

Why would it be expensive to translate the American texts to Australian English?

Well I'm pretty sure the OP intended it as a joke, but on a serious note most software sold in the Australian market isn't localised anyway. For example in Windows 7 installed with Australia as the locale I have "color management" not "colour management". Microsoft Word comes with an Australian spell-check dictionary but otherwise all menus and documentation are American English. Not that I think many locals would really give a shit either way, especially if it meant paying more.

I can't think of any software off-hand where selecting the locale makes much of a meaningful difference other than timezones and metric units / paper sizes. But considering pretty much all the rest of the world uses metric you need that to export pretty much anywhere.

Re:To be fair

[Sir_Sri]

except all of the point of sale costs are paid in Australian dollars, to Australians. The fact that the Australian dollar has doubled in nominal value compared to the USD is mostly irrelevant.

As was said, the legal arrangements are made by hiring Australians, the distributors are paid in Australian dollars. Even if you're talking minimum wage employees the minimum wage in Australia is 15.51 an hour, it's 7.25 in the US. That's your phone support, delivery, even local web hosting type stuff.

Need local phone support? Local servers? Local.. well, anything? You're starting from a different footing than in the US.

Have a look at http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=as&v=67 and http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=67&c=us&l=en. That's the per capita PPP for Australia and the US. In 2003: 30k to 37k. In 2011 41k to 47k. Notice the problem with the currency argument yet? It means nothing. Just because the Australian dollar has relatively doubled in 8 years doesn't mean it has doubled its relative buying power. With nominal GDP on a per capita exchange rate basis for both 2003 and 2011, but I can't find that data very well. The same articles I linked give australia a 2003 nominal GDP of 542 billion, 2011 1.24 trillion, and the US 10.x to 14.x, but without population numbers and it's too late for me to hunt for more data. So yes, while australias currency converted GDP has almost tripled compare to the us 40% increase), their per capita buying power hasn't done that. The price of any given item is both a symptom of that, and of the cause of it, at the same time. Software development isn't worth dramatically more in 2011 than it was in 2003 the way say.. mining has been.

When you talk about microsoft products specifically, they audit your compliance with their licences. If you're using a home and student product on a business machine that doesn't tend to go over well. Who do you think does the auditing? They're paying Australians. In fact, if you look at the microsoft australia jobs page (https://careers.microsoft.com/search.aspx#&&page=1) most of the positions are services of various sorts and sales, including a licencing executive position. I somehow doubt the average microsoft Australia employee has seen his (in aud) pay increase by a factor of 2.5 since 2003. Possible. But I doubt it.

In europe everything 'costs more' because taxation is loaded into purchases, and because local point of sale cost employees are paid a lot more than they are in the US. And on some things the tax rates are just different. With Australia you do have compliance costs for a small market, which have to be done locally. It sounds stupid, but I doubt microsoft can add in support for 'english, australian' for nothing, they probably have to have specialists who determine what goes in that version, and, again, small market. They have sales costs (because the box copy in store is the same price as the one you order online basically), if you want to download it they need to have the network infrastructure to support that. If you need support (i.e. phone support) they need someone working your timezone, which is either pay someone night shift in the US and hook up the call centre, or pay locals (and given how big australia is you may need two call centres for each time zone and so they can be connected reasonably well).

When it comes to paying corporate executives Australia, Canada and the EU are a bargain compared to the US. When it comes to paying everyone else the US is dirt cheap and only out competed by china and poorer economies.

lets put this another way. Since the AUD has doubled since 2003 has your pay been halved to compensate? Right.

Now adobe CS6 is a whole other problem. Since well, you're buying a lot more than a box of software usually. It's the same basic problem as office, support etc. but at a whole other level, since it's a much smaller market and much more specialized knowledge to provide support and licencing.

Re:To be fair

[AK Marc]

I can't get Amazon US to send me anything. I get better results from Amazon UK, even though it travels farther to get to me (US is usually cheaper, but if they won't send it, I have to get it from the UK who will or send it to someone in the US who will then resend it to me)..

Re:To be fair

[sg_oneill]

At least australia wont send you to gitmo or send some fake FBI to arrest you with false warrants.

You really haven't been following the anti-association law stuff recently havent you?

In numerous states now, if you so much as talk to an outlaw biker you can get done for serious time, and in most the cases what designates an outlaw organization is not decided by judicial review but the whims of the police minister. Theres nothing in the language of the laws that says they cant declare an unpoular political group, like socialists, or activist group, like the sea shephards (Ok granted sea shephard is very popular in australia, just not with the government) to be an illegal organization and thus imprison people simply because they want to organize around their beliefs.

Our political masters have been taking notes from abroad, and its not looking good.

Re:To be fair

[Anonymous Coward]

We don't want your soldiers. Take them home.

- Regards, The World.

Re:To be fair

[Anonymous Coward]

You're arguing that the costs for Adobe/Microsoft's Australian operations effctively double to price of the product they sell. Well, as an Australian business customer I fail to see any value-add from Adobe or Microsoft having an Australian presence -

Software distribution is handled by, shockingly, software distribution companies like Tech Pacific or Ingram Micro.
Distributors onsell products to retailers or resellers etc.
The resellers provide local sales support (eg sell the phyiscal media, preinstall it on PC's etc)
Any technical support is handled by the Asia Pacific regional callcentre for the relevant company - generally not in Australia.
Any licencing issues are handled by Microsoft / Adobe America directly, generally or automated systems.
Vey little of this distribution and support chain requires the interaction of Microsoft Australia employees.

Since I manage software for a reasonable sized company we get our licences via a reseller, and download the media, so we don't use their software distribution chain, anyway.

The only time Microsoft or Adobe have any direct interaction with their customers is at trade shows, or advertising etc; eg this is just the cost of doing business in any country. They're certainly not adding much value-add compared to purchasing the software dierctly from the US. I can't see how they could justify doubling the price on their products due to the cost of maintaining a local Australian presence.

If the cost of an Australian presence really was an issue, they could shut the australian offices and just run from singapore or something, Most customers wouldn't notice any difference.

Re:To be fair

[blind biker]

All you have to do is script 180 degree rotation on every page.

And insert "cunt" wherever appropriate^Wnecessary.

Re:To be fair

[Hognoxious]

there is a special book tax meant to protect Australian local publishers.

But there is an exemption if they've already been coloured in.

Re:To be fair

[Nursie]

It seems to be very variable by person. Maybe because I started my account in the UK I fall under different rules?

What they won't send me are computer games that have been banned here, so they must be applying some rules, but I can get electronics, books and most games.

Re:To be fair

[Antarius]

Some of the Australian made cars sell for less in the US than they do in Australia.

That's after shipping the fuckers across to the other side of the world. How the hell does that work?

Re:To be fair

[sonamchauhan]

> By your numbers, when the exchange rate recovers, Adobe CS6 should go from 2600 AUD today to 5200 AUD.
>
> Australians will appreciate the inflation.. yes?

Yes, because its based on reality, not profit mongering based on hiding information.

This behavior is why me and thousands of other internet-savvy Australians have setup virtual US postal addresses (me with myus.com)

Re:To be fair

[Runaway1956]

You and AC both have it wrong. They aren't subsidizing us, nor are we subsidizing them. We're both being anally raped by the corporations. Goods and services simply do not cost what we are being charged, even allowing for reasonable profits. Companies that have billions in liquid assets which they don't even have a use for are proof of that.

Oh - those drugs? Most of them are shit anyway. Where is the cure for cancer? Alzhiemers? Diabetes? I read an article just a few days ago, about the number of Americans who are on life-time regimens of various drugs. The pharmaceutical companies don't want to cure any thing - they just want consumers to become dependent on their drugs. Psychologically dependent, or physically dependent - it doesn't matter. It's the revenue that matters. Lives mean shit to them.

Re:To be fair

[hxnwix]

the AUD/USD exchange rate can fluctuate by 2% per day. On CS6, that would be a $50 change per day.

You can pretend that you wouldn't mind a 2% fluctuation, but people will care about a $50 change in the price per day.

Either Australians will be outraged it changed so rapidly (and Adobe's greed), or they will try to play the exchange rates to purchase at the lowest price, making demand very variable.

Probably both.

why do you calculate that rate change on an AUD$2600 base price rather than the actual USD base price, though?

Right now, 1 AUD is about 1 USD. Since CS6 is 2600 USD, it's also 2600 AUD (without the GST).

Excuse me, but I'd take a $1600 discount in exchange for $50 variability. I import a lot from the US, converting NOK to USD daily. It's really not that much of a problem. Milk, eggs, gasoline, fruit, fertilizer, salt, gold, wood, diamonds, the real value of the USD itself, interest rates, RAM, vinyl siding, hard drive, bunker C fuel oil, airfare, cigarette, broccoli, and liquid nitrogen prices vary daily. They don't cost the theoretical maximum expected value over the next 2 years. They cost what they are worth today.

Adobe charges a 1600 AUD premium because that is the very most they can possibly squeeze out of the "well, but, exchange rates and stuff" apologists like you.

Re:To be fair

[chrismcb]

All you have to do is script 180 degree rotation on every page.

And insert "cunt" wherever appropriate^Wnecessary.

The amount of extra paper, because of this change, is probably where the extra cost comes from.

Re:To be fair

[the eric conspiracy]

That's a problem between you and your politicians.

Better beaches

[rjames13]

If we lose the better beaches tax does that mean that New Zealand has better beaches than us?

Re:Better beaches

[Max Littlemore]

Australia != Northern Australia. The beach within walking distance of here has, like most Australian beaches, never had box jellies or crocs any where near it.

Devils Advocate

[Kawahee]

I went to purchase Diablo III from Blizzard's online store, and after signing in to my Australian (or SEA or whatever region) battle.net account the price went from US$Price to AU$(Price+20).

I tried to play devils advocate on this one, and what I came up with is that bandwidth and rackspace in Australia are much more expensive than other parts of the world.

But I get the feeling Blizzard don't have battle.net servers in Australia, and since most of their content delivery comes through Bittorrent (and who cares if they "seed" it themselves from the US with cheap bandwidth or AU), so I don't know why it costs so much more.

Re:Devils Advocate

[dbIII]

and what I came up with is that bandwidth and rackspace in Australia are much more expensive than other parts of the world

Which is unfortunately irrelevant because Blizzards "Oceanic" servers are all in racks in the USA.

But I get the feeling Blizzard don't have battle.net servers in Australia

There's been articles about the servers being in the USA, (can't remember where and the first page of google only shows complaints on forums), but either way a quick ping will show you that wherever they are there is half a world's length of wire and fibre between your net connection in Australia and where their servers are.

However Blizzard are just one of many that is price gouging by location. Apple used to be so bad at it that people could fly from Sydney to Hawaii to buy a laptop, spend a weeks holiday, fly back, and still have change left over from what they would have paid to buy it locally. That may be hardware with real shipping costs but the real shipping costs would be a tiny percentage of the markup.

Prices are what the market will bear

[23940823908235908]

We Australians pay high prices for a simple reason - our market can bear the prices. The strong Australian dollar coincides with higher wages and costs of living, and any professional who needs photoshop will buy it, albeit begrudgingly. Adobe provides discounts for students and other groups, but the prices are still quite high.

This is basic economics: charge as much as possible to each customer, also known as price discrimination.

The same goes for "luxury" cars. Let me give an example. Here in Australia a new BMW M3's recommended retail price is $154,000 AUD. In the US, it is around $60,000 USD. Government taxes, extras, shipping costs, etc only account for a very small percentage of this difference. How does BMW sell any cars in Australia? Enough people are willing and able to pay the price.

Re:Prices are what the market will bear

[LordLucless]

How does BMW sell any cars in Australia?

Because importing a BMW from the US is a pain in the butt; not to mention, the car would then have left-hand drive, which Australian customers are unsued to. On the other hand, routing a download from the US, or spoofing an online service into thinking you're buying from the US is trivial.

Also, you can't torrent a BMW.

Re:Prices are what the market will bear

[outsider007]

According to wikipedia US per capita income is well above AU, being topped only by Norway and a few city states.

Re:Prices are what the market will bear

[bertok]

It's not just the tariffs or the taxes. How do you explain that even cars made locally in Australia cost more than the same model in New Zealand? They have shipping costs, taxes, and tariffs too, yet a locally made car somehow costs more here!

I just found an informative page for importing a car into Australia. It has a worked example for importing a car worth $56K into Australia. The total payable tax plus tariffs is $11.5K. Doesn't exactly account for a BMW going from $60K to over $130K, does it? Where the hell did the other $60K increase in the price come from?

I once worked as an IT contractor for a car importer that had an exclusive deal with a manufacturer to import cars into Australia. I asked one of their senior staffers why cars were more expensive in Australia. He basically admitted that all of the importers jack up the price because they have an effective monopoly position (for their brands), and can get away with it. There's a sort of gentleman's agreement between them to maintain this status quo and not compete on price. This works because importers often import several brands, so there's only a few of them catering for the entire market. It's not the taxes, the shipping, the retailers, or the manufacturer. Nameless middle-men obtain exclusive rights to import, and then milk the market for everything that they can.

It's blatantly obvious if you know what to look for. For example, I wanted to get a nice sporty car, like the Nissan GT-R. Here in Australia, it's over double the cost of what it is in Japan or in the US. I worked out all the taxes, and it still didn't explain most of the difference. I looked into importing one direct from Japan -- I'd still have to pay all of the Australian taxes and tariffs and pay an additinal overhead for organising the whole thing, but the end result would still about 30-40% cheaper. However, it turns out that I wouldn't be be able to get my imported car serviced! The "official" importer also controls all of the parts and servicing, and they'll refuse to do business with you if you own a "grey" import. You can have it serviced elsewhere, but with a small-volume model like the GT-R, it's a risk. Compare that to, say, buying an iPad in America. Apple will repair it for you in Australia happily.

There's no way to do the equivalent in America because the market is too big, there's too many importers, and hence there's enough competition to prevent a successful collusion from forming.

This is why I don't buy anything except food and clothes from local retailers any more. I get all my gadgets and software online. Lots of other Australians shop online from overseas too. It's probably harming our local businesses, but fuck them and their greedy price gouging.

It's about time the ACCC started investigating this. First software, then I hope they look into cars next...

Re:Prices are what the market will bear

[Antonovich]

This is very similar to what was happening in France with mobile network charges. You LITERALLY had a spokesman from one of the three "historical operators" (incumbents, those who actually own physical networks as opposed to virtual operators) say when challenged by a journalist on the margins they were getting - "it's not how much it costs us to provide the service but what the consumer is prepared to pay". Needless to say, the three have been fined many hundreds of millions of euros for price collusion over the years. The result? They paid the fines - it was still far more profitable to pay the fines and continue to charge extortive prices. Then earlier this year the famous "fourth operator" arrived (mobile.free.fr). Overnight they revolutionised the market. People routinely have had their bills halved, or at least have a significant reduction in cost and significant increase in services provided/included (like free tethering, 3x data, unlimited voice, etc. thrown in,). The business model is different - you buy your phone outright (though they do offer rent-to-own which makes the difference pretty small) and there are no minimum contract lengths. There is basically no customer service but the difference here in France between "full customer service" and "no customer service" is pretty small anyway (don't get me started!). All the others have followed suit. The comment made by the CEO of the 4th operator "even at these prices we are still making a very healthy margin". The ONLY thing that matters is proper competition. Whether that happens naturally by a company being prepared to make only reasonable profits (as opposed to ridiculous) or by the government making sure it happens is probably pretty irrelevant. Software is a hard one though - most people are zombies and just use what is fashionable (Windows anyone?)...

Re:Prices are what the market will bear

[MoonBuggy]

If what you just said is accurate, what I just heard was "Start a luxury car importer, undercut the competition by 15%, profit!".

Re:Prices are what the market will bear

[rssc]

If only it were that simple. I know of a similar situation in Europe, where a car dealer in country A had the same idea, and started buying cars from car dealers from country B just across the border (where they were significantly cheaper) and sold them locally with a significant discount. What then happend was that the car manufacturers threatened to stop selling cars to any car dealer in country B who sold cars to the car dealer from country A. I am not even sure how you could go after car manufacturers legally, considering that this is happening in a different country.

Re:Prices are what the market will bear

[drsmithy]

Your BMW example isn't the best example as that BMW M3 will have both import tariffs and fees (designed to protect what is left of the local car manufacturing industry) and luxury car tax (introduced by the Howard government in order to ensure the difference in the tax rate between luxury cars and normal cars remained the same under the GST as it did under the old wholesale sales tax system)

No, the LCT doesn't even come close to explaining the price difference.

It's just flat-out gouging by BMW (Mercedes, Audi and the super-expensive brands like Ferrari, etc, do the same).

Some Euro brands do not do this - for example, Volkswagen. Their cars cost basically the same in Australia as they do in the UK. I believe Volvo are also quite competitively priced in Australia, but since they don't have any vehicles I'm interested in I don't know any specific examples.

You are mad to buy any of the luxury Euro brands in Australia - BMW, Audi, Mercedes, et al. They're just reaming you with 20-150%+ markups over other countries.

Good

[sapphire wyvern]

Excellent. I'm sick of the exploitation of software pricing in Australia. Price ratios haven't shifted at all since the 90s when the AUD was worth 0.6 USD. Now 1 AUD > 1 USD.

Re:Good

[complete loony]

The worst offender IMHO is steam pricing. Since on steam the prices are quoted in USD, but are still 30-60% higher. Heck I can buy some steam games over the counter for less than the online price.

Here's to hoping - Europe as well?

[QuasiSteve]

There used to be a great document at http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html that detailed the situation in 2007 for the UK. Thankfully, there's archive.org

http://web.archive.org/web/20100702205054/http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html

Adobe even replied to some inquiries, and you can see some of their excuses in:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100526120202/http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe_spin.html

The UK, just as Australia and Europe, were - and still are (at one point it was even cheaper to get the boxed version than to get the download version) - basically being screwed over (and good luck checking that - their various international websites make it a pain in the ass to compare pricing) and the only reason for this is that the market will pay anyway.
Why? Because 1. It's Adobe's products. If you have an interest in them, you're probably in an industry where you have little choice, so you'd probably pay twice the price and limit yourself to some grumbling on twitter, and 2. you probably earn the price of these products back on just a handful of jobs, after which you'd only have to worry about the upgrade pricing.

It's one market I wouldn't mind Apple upsetting, not one bit.

You americans are THEIVES!!!

[cheekyboy]

Comon now, you can sell stuff cheap in singapore, or to mexico, or to canada, but let it pass through one middle mad on its way to australia and that FAT asshole prick will bump up the prices 30%. Its like USA is so advanced , but asking it to ship products outside USA zones is like asking them to ship to mars or something. Yet UK/europe/asia, they can ship anywhere TWICE as quick. Why is it stuff from UK arrives in 1/3rd the time than USA stuff? Is it the DHS scanning 50 planes/hr ?

And adobe, screw your resellers, just sell your shit 100% online.

Resellers OFFER NOTHING in the internet world, sure in 1990 they did advertise and offer support, today none.

Re:You americans are THEIVES!!!

[thegarbz]

Wrong train of thought. Australian import duties are quite low for most goods (alcohol and tobacco are exceptions). For the most part all you really need to do is pay 10% tax on a container load of goods.

But the problem goes way beyond. I ordered a camera lens from B&H in the USA. I paid $70 shipping. It was over $1000 so I paid 10% tax ($180), it arrived on the weekend so I got a double whamy of a customs good holding fee $50, and for some reason UPS charged me again for the privilege of customs delays $30. I paid a total of $300 to get this over the listed USA price and the end result was it was still $250 cheaper than the cheapest price I could find anywhere in Australia.

ebay thing? For that the problem is Australia Post. I received a faulty product from America. USPS shipping was $7 to get this thing slightly larger then a letter over here. The company asked to ship it back and I went to the local post office. Our post office said it was slightly too thick to be a letter, no matter we'll send it to the USA for $55. !!!!!!! My father is CEO of a direct marketing company here. They have some 10000 subscribers in the USA and they have worked out it is cheaper to get the letters printed in Germany and bulk shipped to Hungary where they get inserted into envelopes and sent via Hungarian Post to the USA than it is to print them themselves and ship them direct to the USA. Can't do it internal to the USA unfortunately due to some rules about the contents of the mailings.

This is Australia. Everything is upside down here remember? We enjoy getting raped in the wallet here mate.

Re:You americans are THEIVES!!!

[deniable]

Middle of the night? That's the USA, not Australia. The Indian call center is only a few hours behind our west coast. While we're at it, what import duties?

I have a better idea...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Instead of this ad-hoc 'inquiry' nonsense, which is necessarily reactive and highly liable to regulatory capture, why don't we just adopt some of that 'free trade' stuff that assorted Respectable People tell us is so salubrious when the chaps who produce the products in question are shopping around for the cheapest inputs?

Absent legal barriers, arbitrage in software should cost next to nothing, especially now that much of it doesn't even come on shiny disks anymore. See to it that Australian customers can legally import goods from the location of their choice, and that middlemen can import goods from the location of their choice for domestic sale, and the price difference should collapse in a loud puff of nebulous whining about 'intellectual property'...

The whole notion behind the term 'grey market' is pernicious. It Should Not Matter whether the manufacturer/seller of a good is pleased by the ultimate destination of the goods they are selling. Yes, we would all like to enjoy perfect price discrimination. No, that isn't a good argument for letting us do so. In the absence of absurd restrictions on arbitrage, various pricing shenanigans, release-date bullshit, and other nonsense simply collapse.

Such restrictions would be one thing if they were applied evenhandedly, if the producers weren't already shopping all over the world for the lowest prices, laxest laws, and sweetest tax breaks; but they are not. You want cozy protectionism for your retail prices? Well, perhaps you shouldn't expect to enjoy worldwide free trade on your input prices... You want worldwide free trade for the things you buy? Well, that's nice, you deserve no less than worldwide free trade in the things you sell.

latency is high, why not sinapore

[cheekyboy]

Singapore has Amazon EC2 servers, is closer to AU for low latency, so why cant they have servers there?

Yeah telstra run by idiots who couldnt figure out how to reduce costs if they were even told how to. Outdated, and over paid managers.

Re:Prices are already insane there

[mjwx]

There seems to be a duty on "luxury" items or something. An inflatable camping mattress that would have been less than USD$30 was AUD$130, and other prices in the camping store were similarly crazy. If you're outfitting as a camper there, you can probably save by flying to the U.S. to buy your stuff.

No duties on most items, Almost everything that is not alcohol, tobacco or has a motor has GST only (Goods and Services Tax, a flat 10%). Camping gear is no exception, no special duties on it what so ever.

It's distributors profiteering. With tax, a $30 item in the US should cost $33, maybe you could stretch that to $40 with shipping. Yet Distributors price it at a 100% or greater mark up compared to the US prices.

BTW, smart Australians are already buying from overseas. Shoes, clothing, computers, electronics games and movies are cheaper to buy overseas (via the internet) and import. Items under A$1000 can be imported GST free. This is something the retail dinosaurs in Australia hate as it means people aren't paying 3-5x for the same products as much in their stores, they've gone as far as suggesting a special Internet tax to try to drive up prices online.

Ob

[Hognoxious]

Australian consumers may finally see the end of being overcharged for software simply because they live outside the U.S. Minister for Communications

So, how much do people who live inside him pay?