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Aussie Parliamentary Inquiry Into Software Pricing Announced

New submitter elphie007 writes "Australian consumers may finally see the end of being overcharged for software simply because they live outside the U.S. Minister for Communications Senator Stephen Conroy (champion of Australia's National Broadband Network) is reported to be finalizing the terms of reference for a parliamentary inquiry into software pricing in Australia. Last week, Adobe announced Australians would be charged up to $1,600 more for Adobe CS6. With the ongoing strength of the Aussie dollar against the U.S. dollar, Australians should really be paying less, not more for software & music purchased online."

22 of 259 comments (clear)

  1. To be fair by symbolset · · Score: 5, Funny

    Translating text and manuals to Australian isn't free.

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    1. Re:To be fair by Netshroud · · Score: 5, Funny

      All you have to do is script 180 degree rotation on every page.

    2. Re:To be fair by Zerth · · Score: 4, Informative

      The US price is 1300. Even including GST, that is in nearly double the US price. Considering the Aus $ trade for $1.04 USD, that's outrageous even including currency exchange costs.

    3. Re:To be fair by the_B0fh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      jesus. no matter how stupid the topic is, you can find an apologist for it. Here're the rebuttal points:

      1) USA is the most lawsuit happy country in the world. If the company can do business in USA, and the price covers the cost of lawsuits, then the same price will cover the price of lawsuits in Australia.

      2) WTF are you smoking on development taxes? *NOBODY* pays fucking taxes on writing software, only on selling it. If you are talking about salaries of developers and so on, then shouldn't there be a *DISCOUNT* since it's so much cheaper to develop it elsewhere?!

      3) I guarantee you Adobe has already figured out the taxing regulations previously, and it's fucking sunk cost. The cost of figuring out the tax regulations (as a delta against US tax regulations) do not recur yearly. If there are changes, it's the same kind of changes that happen in USA, and obviously Adobe USA can handle it, so why can't Adobe Australia?

      You're full of shit.

    4. Re:To be fair by rgbrenner · · Score: 3, Informative

      1300 is the price for the absolute cheapest version of Adobe CS6. The article says "UP TO" so we can assume that is for the most expensive version. The Adobe site says the Master Collection is $2600:
      http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite.html?kw=p&sdid=JRSIM&skwcid=TC|22178|adobe%20CS6||S|e|10550251960

      Second, the article says it is "up to 1400 more", not 1600.

      So 4000/2600 = 54% markup in Australia.

    5. Re:To be fair by moss45 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Australia has a GST tax. Just figuring out if you are liable for this will cost you a bundle.

      Figuring out whether you are liable for GST takes about 5 minutes. Registering for GST would take a few hours. Nearly every company in Australia registers for GST, so the government made it extremely simple. These things are such a marginal cost that it is ridiculous to use them as a reason for significant price differences.

    6. Re:To be fair by nedlohs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As for the strength of the Australian dollar, that is purely a rubbish argument, because US companies typically price their software in US dollars, and let the exchange rate take care of itself.

      They clearly don't. 10 years ago the AUD was worth US$0.50, now it's worth US$1. Software prices in Australia are not 50% less than they were (relative to US prices).

      For example Office Professional Edition 2003 was announced at US$499 in 2003 in the US, but at AUD$899 in Australia. The AUD was worth USD$0.65 at the time. So the Australian version was USD$584 and USD$53 of that is GST giving a $32 or 6% premium over the US price which no one complained about since that's reasonable.

      Now Microsoft Office Professional 2010 (2 PC/1 user version) is AUD$849 in Australia. It is USD$499.95 in the US. The AUD is currently worth USD$1.05. So the Australian version is USD$891 of which USD$81 is GST giving a USD$310 or 62% premium.

      Notice even though the AUD has increased in value by about 60% in that time frame the relative USD/AUD prices have essentially remained unchanged (wooho a $50 reduction in Oz).

      Australians wish they priced in USD, since then prices would have fallen by almost half over that time frame.

      So how do you explain a 6% premium turning into a 60% premium? What massive changes product liability and taxation systems do you think happen in Australia?

      Australia has a GST tax. Just figuring out if you are liable for this will cost you a bundle. Collecting it and dealing with it from Chicago will cost you more in terms of staff time, and hiring work done in Australia.

      Oh sure. It's real hard. If you are you selling it in Australia then you add 10% to the price and send that in to the government. If you are selling it outside of Australia then you do nothing. Wow, that's so complicated! All software qualifies for the GST making it even simpler to work out.

    7. Re:To be fair by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well I'll be honest. As a Canadian I know exactly what Aussies are going through, we've been dealing with it for decades and we're next to the US. It took a hell of a long time for it to change, the worst offenders were books. Seeing a list price on the back of $5.99USD and $11.99CDN with the dollar at parity broke the back of everyone on the issue. It was the same for software back about 15 years ago too. $49-59USD and $79-89CDN, until people said screw it and started ordering stuff from the US via backshop mailers who were willing to cut the price by $10.

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    8. Re:To be fair by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Informative

      I can't get Amazon US to send me anything. I get better results from Amazon UK, even though it travels farther to get to me (US is usually cheaper, but if they won't send it, I have to get it from the UK who will or send it to someone in the US who will then resend it to me)..

    9. Re:To be fair by sg_oneill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At least australia wont send you to gitmo or send some fake FBI to arrest you with false warrants.

      You really haven't been following the anti-association law stuff recently havent you?

      In numerous states now, if you so much as talk to an outlaw biker you can get done for serious time, and in most the cases what designates an outlaw organization is not decided by judicial review but the whims of the police minister. Theres nothing in the language of the laws that says they cant declare an unpoular political group, like socialists, or activist group, like the sea shephards (Ok granted sea shephard is very popular in australia, just not with the government) to be an illegal organization and thus imprison people simply because they want to organize around their beliefs.

      Our political masters have been taking notes from abroad, and its not looking good.

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    10. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We don't want your soldiers. Take them home.

      - Regards, The World.

    11. Re:To be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're arguing that the costs for Adobe/Microsoft's Australian operations effctively double to price of the product they sell. Well, as an Australian business customer I fail to see any value-add from Adobe or Microsoft having an Australian presence -

      Software distribution is handled by, shockingly, software distribution companies like Tech Pacific or Ingram Micro.
      Distributors onsell products to retailers or resellers etc.
      The resellers provide local sales support (eg sell the phyiscal media, preinstall it on PC's etc)
      Any technical support is handled by the Asia Pacific regional callcentre for the relevant company - generally not in Australia.
      Any licencing issues are handled by Microsoft / Adobe America directly, generally or automated systems.
      Vey little of this distribution and support chain requires the interaction of Microsoft Australia employees.

      Since I manage software for a reasonable sized company we get our licences via a reseller, and download the media, so we don't use their software distribution chain, anyway.

      The only time Microsoft or Adobe have any direct interaction with their customers is at trade shows, or advertising etc; eg this is just the cost of doing business in any country. They're certainly not adding much value-add compared to purchasing the software dierctly from the US. I can't see how they could justify doubling the price on their products due to the cost of maintaining a local Australian presence.

      If the cost of an Australian presence really was an issue, they could shut the australian offices and just run from singapore or something, Most customers wouldn't notice any difference.

    12. Re:To be fair by Antarius · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Some of the Australian made cars sell for less in the US than they do in Australia.

      That's after shipping the fuckers across to the other side of the world. How the hell does that work?

    13. Re:To be fair by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's a problem between you and your politicians.

  2. Better beaches by rjames13 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If we lose the better beaches tax does that mean that New Zealand has better beaches than us?

  3. Devils Advocate by Kawahee · · Score: 4, Informative

    I went to purchase Diablo III from Blizzard's online store, and after signing in to my Australian (or SEA or whatever region) battle.net account the price went from US$Price to AU$(Price+20).

    I tried to play devils advocate on this one, and what I came up with is that bandwidth and rackspace in Australia are much more expensive than other parts of the world.

    But I get the feeling Blizzard don't have battle.net servers in Australia, and since most of their content delivery comes through Bittorrent (and who cares if they "seed" it themselves from the US with cheap bandwidth or AU), so I don't know why it costs so much more.

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    1. Re:Devils Advocate by dbIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

      and what I came up with is that bandwidth and rackspace in Australia are much more expensive than other parts of the world

      Which is unfortunately irrelevant because Blizzards "Oceanic" servers are all in racks in the USA.

      But I get the feeling Blizzard don't have battle.net servers in Australia

      There's been articles about the servers being in the USA, (can't remember where and the first page of google only shows complaints on forums), but either way a quick ping will show you that wherever they are there is half a world's length of wire and fibre between your net connection in Australia and where their servers are.

      However Blizzard are just one of many that is price gouging by location. Apple used to be so bad at it that people could fly from Sydney to Hawaii to buy a laptop, spend a weeks holiday, fly back, and still have change left over from what they would have paid to buy it locally. That may be hardware with real shipping costs but the real shipping costs would be a tiny percentage of the markup.

  4. Prices are what the market will bear by 23940823908235908 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We Australians pay high prices for a simple reason - our market can bear the prices. The strong Australian dollar coincides with higher wages and costs of living, and any professional who needs photoshop will buy it, albeit begrudgingly. Adobe provides discounts for students and other groups, but the prices are still quite high.

    This is basic economics: charge as much as possible to each customer, also known as price discrimination.

    The same goes for "luxury" cars. Let me give an example. Here in Australia a new BMW M3's recommended retail price is $154,000 AUD. In the US, it is around $60,000 USD. Government taxes, extras, shipping costs, etc only account for a very small percentage of this difference. How does BMW sell any cars in Australia? Enough people are willing and able to pay the price.

    1. Re:Prices are what the market will bear by bertok · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not just the tariffs or the taxes. How do you explain that even cars made locally in Australia cost more than the same model in New Zealand? They have shipping costs, taxes, and tariffs too, yet a locally made car somehow costs more here!

      I just found an informative page for importing a car into Australia. It has a worked example for importing a car worth $56K into Australia. The total payable tax plus tariffs is $11.5K. Doesn't exactly account for a BMW going from $60K to over $130K, does it? Where the hell did the other $60K increase in the price come from?

      I once worked as an IT contractor for a car importer that had an exclusive deal with a manufacturer to import cars into Australia. I asked one of their senior staffers why cars were more expensive in Australia. He basically admitted that all of the importers jack up the price because they have an effective monopoly position (for their brands), and can get away with it. There's a sort of gentleman's agreement between them to maintain this status quo and not compete on price. This works because importers often import several brands, so there's only a few of them catering for the entire market. It's not the taxes, the shipping, the retailers, or the manufacturer. Nameless middle-men obtain exclusive rights to import, and then milk the market for everything that they can.

      It's blatantly obvious if you know what to look for. For example, I wanted to get a nice sporty car, like the Nissan GT-R. Here in Australia, it's over double the cost of what it is in Japan or in the US. I worked out all the taxes, and it still didn't explain most of the difference. I looked into importing one direct from Japan -- I'd still have to pay all of the Australian taxes and tariffs and pay an additinal overhead for organising the whole thing, but the end result would still about 30-40% cheaper. However, it turns out that I wouldn't be be able to get my imported car serviced! The "official" importer also controls all of the parts and servicing, and they'll refuse to do business with you if you own a "grey" import. You can have it serviced elsewhere, but with a small-volume model like the GT-R, it's a risk. Compare that to, say, buying an iPad in America. Apple will repair it for you in Australia happily.

      There's no way to do the equivalent in America because the market is too big, there's too many importers, and hence there's enough competition to prevent a successful collusion from forming.

      This is why I don't buy anything except food and clothes from local retailers any more. I get all my gadgets and software online. Lots of other Australians shop online from overseas too. It's probably harming our local businesses, but fuck them and their greedy price gouging.

      It's about time the ACCC started investigating this. First software, then I hope they look into cars next...

  5. Good by sapphire+wyvern · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Excellent. I'm sick of the exploitation of software pricing in Australia. Price ratios haven't shifted at all since the 90s when the AUD was worth 0.6 USD. Now 1 AUD > 1 USD.

  6. I have a better idea... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Instead of this ad-hoc 'inquiry' nonsense, which is necessarily reactive and highly liable to regulatory capture, why don't we just adopt some of that 'free trade' stuff that assorted Respectable People tell us is so salubrious when the chaps who produce the products in question are shopping around for the cheapest inputs?

    Absent legal barriers, arbitrage in software should cost next to nothing, especially now that much of it doesn't even come on shiny disks anymore. See to it that Australian customers can legally import goods from the location of their choice, and that middlemen can import goods from the location of their choice for domestic sale, and the price difference should collapse in a loud puff of nebulous whining about 'intellectual property'...

    The whole notion behind the term 'grey market' is pernicious. It Should Not Matter whether the manufacturer/seller of a good is pleased by the ultimate destination of the goods they are selling. Yes, we would all like to enjoy perfect price discrimination. No, that isn't a good argument for letting us do so. In the absence of absurd restrictions on arbitrage, various pricing shenanigans, release-date bullshit, and other nonsense simply collapse.

    Such restrictions would be one thing if they were applied evenhandedly, if the producers weren't already shopping all over the world for the lowest prices, laxest laws, and sweetest tax breaks; but they are not. You want cozy protectionism for your retail prices? Well, perhaps you shouldn't expect to enjoy worldwide free trade on your input prices... You want worldwide free trade for the things you buy? Well, that's nice, you deserve no less than worldwide free trade in the things you sell.

  7. Re:You americans are THEIVES!!! by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wrong train of thought. Australian import duties are quite low for most goods (alcohol and tobacco are exceptions). For the most part all you really need to do is pay 10% tax on a container load of goods.

    But the problem goes way beyond. I ordered a camera lens from B&H in the USA. I paid $70 shipping. It was over $1000 so I paid 10% tax ($180), it arrived on the weekend so I got a double whamy of a customs good holding fee $50, and for some reason UPS charged me again for the privilege of customs delays $30. I paid a total of $300 to get this over the listed USA price and the end result was it was still $250 cheaper than the cheapest price I could find anywhere in Australia.

    ebay thing? For that the problem is Australia Post. I received a faulty product from America. USPS shipping was $7 to get this thing slightly larger then a letter over here. The company asked to ship it back and I went to the local post office. Our post office said it was slightly too thick to be a letter, no matter we'll send it to the USA for $55. !!!!!!! My father is CEO of a direct marketing company here. They have some 10000 subscribers in the USA and they have worked out it is cheaper to get the letters printed in Germany and bulk shipped to Hungary where they get inserted into envelopes and sent via Hungarian Post to the USA than it is to print them themselves and ship them direct to the USA. Can't do it internal to the USA unfortunately due to some rules about the contents of the mailings.

    This is Australia. Everything is upside down here remember? We enjoy getting raped in the wallet here mate.