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Mozilla Ponders Major Firefox UI Refresh
CWmike writes "Mozilla is working on a revamp of Firefox to synchronize its various versions — desktop, tablet, phone and Windows 8 Metro — into a single visual style, according to documents posted by members of its user interface (UI) design team. The project, which does not have a name, and the earlier blending of Mozilla's mobile and desktop design groups, is meant to bring more coherence to the various versions of the open-source browser. 'One of our major goals for the year [is] getting Firefox to feel more like one product — more 'Firefoxy' — across all our platforms, desktop to tablet to phone,' Madhava Enro of the Mozilla UI design team, said in a post to his personal blog on Tuesday. Enro posted a slideshow he and others used the week before to present their proposals at a company get-together. According to the presentation, some UI elements will be shared across all Firefox editions, among them a lean toward 'softer texture' and smoother curves in the design."
Thank the gods for Iceweasel.
When it's finalized THEN post it.
Doing a story about "pondering" sounds like a MSN bullshit story. Even though it's more likely to happen, you might as well do a story title "moon may fall into Atlantic tomorrow."
see subject
Or maybe even if not fully open source, at least forks.
Cometbird. PaleMoon. Your choice of others. Someone's going to keep the classic UI.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Another day, another Firefox UI 'revamp'. And another major version number to go with it, no doubt.
Meanwhile, if a download times out Firefox still reports it as having completed successfully. This has been the case since at least Phoenix 0.4, and presumably since it's conception. Yet it remains unfixed. Apparently in 11 major versions and 9 years, not to mention countless UI revamps it seems the FF team still haven't realised that an HTTP connection can fail.
Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Please stop. Just stop. To re-purpose what I've written before: Stop turning my computer programs into children's toys.
Stop taking away all my menu bars, tables, text boxes, whites spaces, status bars. Stop replacing them giant coloured icons and disappearing peelback tabs and menus. Am I expected to just intuitively "feel" where all the controls and options are now? I don't understand why you are doing this.
This has to stop, as it's happening across the program spectrum. I blame the influence of smartphones and similar touch oriented devices.Speaking as someone who has never owed a smart phone I have always found them restrictive and confusing. Using one is like navigating a theme park without a map. Eventually you'll want to just find a place to sit down but you'll only get more lost among the theme rides and hot dog stands.
The encroaching presence of fatuous smartphone UIs onto my desktop annoys and increasingly frustrates me, and has to stop. I never liked Macs, and Ubuntu's unity is driving me off the distro. I don't want this and I have trouble believing that most FF users do, or will ever. Stop shoving this down the throats of your misfortune users.
Stop. Firefox does not need this. Its UI does not need to be "refreshed" or "toned down" or "streamlined" or even "supercharged". It is a good UI. Title bars and menubars are a desired and productive element of its interface. It's OK to have little icons, buttons, and text around the screen; I use a keyboard and mouse instead of fat fingers and caressing gestures. Stop assuming a smart-phone has been my primary computing device for the last five years.
Please stop this. Just stop. Someone, please tell them to stop.
May the Maths Be with you!
You realize you can change the Windows version to behaving like it used to, by turning on the menu bar in the view options? And that you can get the Linux version to behave like the Windows version by turning off the menu bar and enabling a sidebar?
I may get accused of being a cranky old man but seriously, what I want from a browser UI is to access the functions of the browser like back/forward, refresh, an address bar that actually displays the address including the protocol, maybe start page button and bookmarks. What I don't need (and this apparently includes, from the mock-ups) is a "twitter" button.
I'm starting to think the problem is that Mozilla is hiring a lot of people who then (naturally) feel obligated to "do something" and weird changes are the result. Also, why copy everyone else? Why not, ahem, think different for once? Not everyone wants a Chrome-style browser and those that do probably use Chrome (and they should, more power to them).
The menu bar rendering on Windows has been broken/fugly since FF4
Looks seriously unprofessional and quite obviously broken, but as the menubar is off by default, nobody's bothered to fix it.
I blame the influence of smartphones and similar touch oriented devices.
There's a pretty big reason why all these changes are being implemented; that's where a large portion of the users are at, and these devices are getting more popular. It only makes sense that people using your software across devices will at least want a consistent UI, and it should be accessible no matter what type of device you are using.
That being said, looking over the Firefox designs, I see nothing that looks substantially different (or difficult) about how the new UI will be used.
Stop turning my computer programs into children's toys.
Conversely, I could say the old style of fiddly menus and unnecessary buttons and icons everywhere is more toylike than what we are moving towards, because those are all a big distraction and just make the software more difficult to use 95% of the time than it needs to be.
doesn't mean it's better... just that they (google) spend more on marketing and distribution (tv commercials, streaming video spots, bundleware, pc makers, etc)
Dunno if it's just me, but there feels like a massive shift in computing coming through soon. It's this weird Tech version of the Mayan doomsday where everybody is going all "OMG Mobile!"
So desktop users will be sorta pushed to the sidelines, and then we're all supposed to live on our phones or something.
But once those UI switches are made, ... then what? It's creating a kind of "block in the prophetic visions of the future", so everyone scrambles for two years because Mobile Is Da Hotness, ... then what?
Are we just going to stare at each other in a kind of giant fishbowl meta-boredom having reached a point where there "isn't any innovation left"? Oh, they'll do small things, like add ons, and maybe "smart clothing" with GPS enhancements, etc etc, but after everyone finishes this big "Mobile or Die" push, it feels like it will be almost a letdown of "what do we do with ourselves now?"
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
As a Firefox user, I see literally dozens of google Ads suggesting I install Chrome, or upgrade to a faster browsing experience, or other similar messages, every day. Google put popups to that effect on their search homepage. I'll hazard a guess that this bears some responsibility for market share decline. Some is no doubt due to perceptions that FF is slow/a memory hog in comparison to Chrome.
Neither of these factors will be affected by changing UI to copy your competitor. Firefox needs to carve out their own niche, and the seemingly deliberate activities to remove all discernible difference, and hence possible competitive advantage they have over their more highly resourced competitor, seems stupidly short sited.
Why don't you like my hammer? Can't you see how shiny it is? Every working man is getting one, clearly it is the tool of the future! You're just preducided against hammers because you don't appreciate how flexible and intuitive it is. It's so ergonomic, it fits the human hand so perfectly! Feel the weight of it, the balance. Don't you want one too? I bet you secretly do.
Sure, some people might insist that those old-style hydraulic drop hammers gets more hammering done, but they're so... loud... and heavy. Not all portable, or shiny. Who would want to use something like that? You clearly don't understand the manifest benefits of a light-weight, hand-held, ergonomic implement that anyone can use! So pretty to look at too -- you can see that mine is chrome plated and comes with a doe-skin suede hip holster. It's the latest style. You'll love it, trust me.
The market has clearly spoken: more people are purchasing shiny hand-held hammers than heavy and dull hydraulic drop hammers. You're just slow to get with the times. It's time for you to join the rest of us in the future.
Why strive for a "one size fits all" anyway ?
Yes, mobile devices are on the rise. Often with small (touch)screens where it makes sense to minimize control elements, in order not to clutter that screen.
At the same time, big screens aren't disappearing either. Browsing the web on a 40" TV at home isn't unheard of, maybe those screens are wall-size in a decade or so. And the average laptop / PC on a desk with mouse beside it, is yet another way to go about it.
The intelligent thing would be to realize that those devices & user experiences are different, and applications + their user interfaces should adjust accordingly. Or if that's too difficult, have different applications & different user interfaces for different devices. Like what has always been the case, really.
I'm a Firefox user too, but if something like that happened to me I would switch to Chromium and do something else with my evening.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
Do I use finger to poke, swipe, and pinch when I am on my desktop? Do I use a mouse to point and click when I use my phone? Is my desktop screen 3" x 2"? Is my phone screen 24" x 12"? No. No. No. No. These are two totally different operating environments with totally different requirements and limitations. They each need different interfaces. Besides who uses Firefox on their phone? It's all about Dolphin baby.
Why are all the software producers abandoning 30 years of desktop user interface improvements to make it more like mobile interfaces which are new and still developing, and by needs totally different. Just when they get it right and are just in need of the slightest refinements, they think it's time to make radical changes. Is this about improving the product or is it about keeping programers employed?
MOZILLA LISTEN!!! A browser should be so easy to use that it almost becomes transparent. It becomes that way by maintaining a nice user interface for a long time so use of the features becomes deeply ingrained habit. STOP CHANGING THINGS AROUND! PLEEEAAASE!!!
-- QED
The Version number doubles every 18 months
We all know complaining on message boards never does anything, so tell them directly what you think of their ideas:
http://input.mozilla.org/en-US/feedback#idea
How's the view from the bike shed, guys? Figure out which color to paint it today? Screw the UI overhaul, some of the engine needs overhauling too, but that's no fun. We'd rather bicker endlessly over how curvy to make the soft curves, while the memory leaks and weird crashes go on, unabated.
The important stuff is hard to fix, and no one wants to do that stuff. Arguing over UI rehashes is more fun, and "feels" productive whether or not it actually is.
How about inventing mechanism so themes and plugins don't need constant updating and are so frequently uninstallable because of version issues? Wouldn't that be more useful - and thus attract more users - than a sexy new bit of graphics?
But don't mind me, I'll be over here using Opera, which I find more useful, and Chrome, which is way faster.
You know what color would be good for your bike shed? Fail-Red, with nice, soft curves...
If this were Usenet, I'd killfile the lot of you.
Yeah, there are many UI changes that they could make, like letting us put tabs sideways on the side of the window instead of across the top, allow toolbars to be vertical on the side of the window, and basically give us the vertical screen real estate back that we lost when the world decided it had to go 16:9...
I would rather have my forward/back/URL/search fields on the title bar with the window control buttons, and my tabs, capable of being sorted into more than one row, sideways up the left side of the window. Or, allow me to do the opposite. Also, allow the notifier that switches sides at the bottom be able to be vertical, as it's annoying when it blocks part of the text of a webpage.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Sounds like you want the "Tree style tab" addon.
Tree Style Tabs
Ive had it for years... (Google it)
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Chrome is eating into Mozilla's marketspace because Mozilla are trying to copy Chrome by producing an inferior clone of it rather than a browser which survives on it's own strengths.
If both are trying to be exactly the same thing, why use the cheap knock-off when both cost the same?
EXACTLY
I was a Firefox user until the day they abolished versions and started to do updates in the Chrome style.
My Net Banking goes nuts, the security plugin stopped working and I endup being forced, AGAIN, to use Internet Explorer (aaaaaaaaaaargh) to pay my bills.
And you can bet your sorry arse I'm pissed off. This stupid decision to go Chrome style forced me to use again that god cursed half baked browser made by Microsoft.
If they're going Chrome style and I HAVE to use IE again, what the heck I'm doing with Firefox anyway? I'm using IE and Chrome now. I'm not satisfied, but the thing works.
Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
Mozilla always has the wrong answer. That's why the most popular extensions are ones that revert their stupid UI decisions.
Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
Mobile will dominate. Your "desktop" will be just be a fancy docking station for your phone (wireless perhaps with induction for power too). Wherever you sit down, your mobile device and the desk in front of you can pair for extended functionality. 10 to 20 years later, it will have AI like HAL 9000. As it is, IBM Watson comes close today.
Welcome to your personalized "symbiant" where in the future the vast majority of users will rarely touch a GUI and may never even have heard of the CLI. Eventually this symbiant turns into a mind numbing crutch for the mind as idiocracy takes us all to the abyss.
Life is not for the lazy.
It's a shame, but the folks at Firefox have gone off the rails in just about every way. First Gnome goes off the rails, now Firefox. We are living in troubled times my friends.
I've been a hardcore Firefox user for years, spreading it to family and friends every chance I get. I finally left it about a month ago. The constant versions didn't bug me nearly as much as the performance, particularly on older/slower systems. I went to Comodo Dragon, a Chromium-based browser with the Google tracking stuff removed and a bit of security protections added. I love the snappier response but I do miss AdBlock (yes, there are two for Chrome and I run one but it is nowhere as effective as the version on Firefox). However, our old XP machine at home and the kids' netbooks love me for switching.
On a somewhat related note, moving from AVG to MSE made a huge impact on system performance on these less-than-stellar machines. I couldn't believe how much better MSE runs and that it actually does a decent job now.
Because they (cue George Carlin voice) "don't give a fuck about you", or me, or nerds.
They want a mass market. That means copying familiar shittiness, and too bad about that.
Appropriate Carlin voice here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Since you're running on Windows (if don't mind paying a couple of dollars), I highly recommend AdMuncher. It Just Works(tm).
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
Doubleplusungood! A smartphone / pad / whatever has a completely different input framework and completely different surface area to display stuff on; it's absolutely stupid to try to make stuff that works in that environment also work on a desktop where you have full keyboard and mouse input, and comparative miles of real estate for the display.
On the other hand, I'd be thrilled if they would at least synchronize the layouts of their various desktop versions. On Linux, preferences is under the Edit menu; on Windows, it's under Tools. Do they think there's no overlap between users of the two OSes so nobody will ever be troubled by the rearrangement?
As someone who has been using web browsers since before some of you were born, I'd like to make a few comments on this latest foray into copying either Chrome or that spawn-of-evil, Metro.
Alright, one comment. A very brief comment.
No.
Firefox does not need its UI endlessly tweaked by a circle jerk of self-congratulatory programmers who rejoice at every spline and every pixel-level change. Firefox needs the following:
1. Bug fixes. There are a lot of them pending. Have you noticed? I have. It's not nearly as much as fun as playing with the UI, but it needs to be done. (Yes, I've helped. But I'm getting damn tired of writing extremely detailed, carefully researched bug reports that sit in the queue indefinitely.)
2. Security and privacy improvements. A substantial subset of the functionality of NoScript, AdBlock Plus, Better Privacy, Beef TACO, Disconnect, BlockSite, BugMeNot, ShareMeNot and oh yes, HTTPS Everywhere, needs to be IN THE BROWSER. Not an add-on. IN THE BROWSER. Hell, you have a budget: buy the technology if you have to, but get it in. Security and privacy are NOT add-ons, they're core functions. Make it happen.
3. Resource usage. Not everyone on this planet is wealthy enough to afford a new laptop every two years just to run a web browser. And make it possible for users to clamp memory footprint, CPU utilization, and other resources so that they don't find their web browser eating their system alive.
4. Standards compliance. I don't care if you think some of the standards suck -- I think they do too. Do it anyway.
5. Stop dumbing it down. THAT function should be in an add-on, call it "Training Wheels for Firefox".
6. If anyone suggests adding "social network" functions, please give my earnest sympathies to their surviving friends and family.
7. Respect Mah Authoritah! No automatic updates, no automatic checking for updates, nothing. (Why? Think about browser fingerprinting techniques and add-ons, and why some people really, REALLY don't want their browser to provide any clues to those who are doing DPI on the network they're connected through at the moment.)
8. Every icon in every panel needs to be set up as (a) icon only (b) text only or (c) icon and text. All of them. Because i'm getting damn tired of squinting at my 7" netbook screen trying to figure out WTF some squiggle means.
9. Get off my lawn!
10. Stop trying to out-Opera Opera, out-Chrome Chrome, and REALLY stop trying to out-IE IE. You have...had...a vision of a pretty good piece of software and somewhere around Firefox 4, you lost it. Stop. Go find it. Pick it up, dust it off, and tack it on the wall. Then pay attention to it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion