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Mars Rover Turns Up Evidence Of Water
New submitter horselight writes "Recent data obtained from Mars indicates the environment is not as hostile to life as once thought. 'An examination of data gathered by NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity reveals deposits that, on Earth, are only created by water moving through the rock.' The study's lead author, Steve Squyres, said, 'From landing until just before reaching the Endeavour rim, Opportunity was driving over sandstone made of sulfate grains that had been deposited by water and later blown around by the wind. These gypsum veins tell us about water that flowed through the rocks at this exact spot. It's the strongest evidence for water that we've ever seen with Opportunity.' Gypsum veins and other features indicating water movement on the surface of Mars have been observed to be much more common than previously thought."
Howard managed to get if off the ditch?
Mars probes typically return this kind of water on Mars data every few years or so. The problem is, it's nowhere close to the water level found on Earth and therefore it's ability to support any form of life is quite low. I'm not sure how newsworthy this is. It doesn't make much sense to me.
We're so determined to find water on Mars... but it's entirely possible it could be some other liquid like ammonia, isn't it? (And no, I don't mean cleaning fluid ammonia I mean at the temps present on Mars it could have been in liquified state instead of gaseous.)
I wonder if this discovery (major or minor...) was made due to the extensions in the mission plan? How much discovery has been made because of both the mission extensions and the skills of the team operating it?
... as it remaining there for any length of time.
With mars's current enviroment water on the surface in the summer at the equator would explosively boil away in seconds and even highly concetrated brine wouldn't last much longer. In the winter or at the poles its a toss up as to whether it would boil or freeze first. Either way liquid water cannot currently exist on the surface of mars.
We need to find water on Mars in order to support manned missions, bringing it from Earth makes the cargo weight that much heavier.
Could this have any bearing on the position and location of lava tubes on Mars?
http://www.space.com/14086-mars-alien-life-lava-tubes.html
Simple life lives here on Earth in the driest of dry places. Now Mars is dryer still, but that does not preclude the possibility of life still existing there.
Furthermore, this is valuable information for any future manned Mars mission. Any such mission will need a native supply of water. And if there was water on Mars at one point, then there must still be at least a small amount left, though it's probably locked up in hydrates and under the surface.
Finally, information like this is valuable as it shows that water on planets is very common (we've found it on Earth, Venus, Mars, and the moons of Jupiter and Saturn). This lends credence to the idea that water is common on extrasolar planets.
Great warrior...hrmph! Wars not make one great.
There is plenty of evidence of water in space, problem is whether it harbors life or can support life. As soon as we find life elsewhere, it will change everything we believe about life on earth. I can't wait for that day to come.
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
Was listening to this in the audio book just yesterday. Yeah, the book published seven years ago that already has a Disney cartoon made of it...With the recent awakening of the rover 'Opportunity' from it's winter slumber I am looking forward to new reports containing new info.
Now if we can only get a squeegee to mars to clean them panels.
Roving Mars A good read.
Imagination drew in bold strokes, instantly serving hopes and fears, while knowledge advanced by slow increments...
The mineral deposits described are formed in water here on Earth. They would have a different chemical composition if they were deposited in something other than water.
What would be interesting to know would be the age of the rocks.
We need to find water on Mars in order to support manned missions, bringing it from Earth makes the cargo weight that much heavier.
Um...there's plenty of it...at the poles.
NASA, you know I love you, but it's time for an intervention.
It's time to stop pretending to be surprised every time you find evidence for water on Mars. The evidence for a persistently wet -- or at least damp -- ancient Mars has been indisputable for a decade. Move your press releases beyond that, to the same questions you're asking in the scientific literature: just how much water, when, and for how long?
They'll have all the budget they'll ever need.
I know. Just look at all that money we waste on science.
Exactly! Unless you're already there, it's totally pointless to go somewhere. Better off to just stay in your cave near the savannah. The rains are certain to return this year and no doubt the fruit trees and vegetables will return as well. Those others that moved off and started hunting animals? FOOLS!
I drank what? -- Socrates
... as it remaining there for any length of time.
With mars's current enviroment water on the surface in the summer at the equator would explosively boil away in seconds and even highly concetrated brine wouldn't last much longer. In the winter or at the poles its a toss up as to whether it would boil or freeze first. Either way liquid water cannot currently exist on the surface of mars.
At the poles it is not much of a toss. It is pretty safe to say that if there is water at the poles it is frozen and not very likely to turn liquid at any given time.
Rover, start the reactor.
make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
So there might be water there...we can't even get back to the moon let alone establish a base there yet we waste tones of money on 'pie in the sky' dreaming. It's so sad the Chinese will probably beat us to the moon and if there is a chance to turn it into a commercial venture do you really think they will use it for the benefit of earth-kind?
All the money spent designing and testing mars habitats and human rovers would probably have paid for us to be back on the moon. And I somehow think that if we accomplish that it makes the next step...Mars, that much easier and cheaper.
What happened to you, that you're so warped as to call what would be man's greatest achievement pathetic. You seem to be a terribly small-minded person.
The previous 500 articles about evidence of water on Mars just weren't sufficient to drive the point home. Anyone could have missed these articles that are posted. Every. Bloody. Month.
Mounting Evidence for Water on Mars
Surprising Further Evidence for a Wet Mars
Mars Images Reveal Evidence of Ancient Lakes
Strange Globs Could Signal Water On Mars
New Images Reveal Pure Water Ice On Mars
"Puddles" of Water Sighted on Mars
Positive Proof of Water on Mars
A Third of Mars Could Have Been Underwater
NASA Says Mars Once "Drenched With Water"
Recent Evidence Of Water On Mars Near Equator
NASA Announces Water Found On Mars
I suspect NASA has a PR department dedicated to nothing else other than churning out press releases about discoveries of water on Mars, and for some strange reason, every one of them must be reposted on Slashdot by some OCD person.
You think I'm exaggerating? Check this out! A search for "water" and "mars" restricted to the "nasa.gov" site yields over 842,000 hits. That PR department has been busy!
I can't wait for the MSL rover to arrive this August so that we can read even more fascinating press releases about hints of water on Mars.
Why don't we just take some water there, deposit it, and watch what happens?
In Mars' low-pressure atmosphere, water will behave much like dry ice does on Earth - it converts straight between a solid and a gas without entering a liquid phase.
Phase Diagram of Water
Note that the air pressure averages around 600 pascals. That's below the solid-liquid-gas triple-point in the diagram. And temperatures on Mars tend to be well below the freezing point as well.
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
I wonder how you would go about dating the rocks on Mars. On Earth we have good estimates of initial U-235/U-238 ratios (and other radioactive materials) and the carbon cycle allows us to C-14 date things. But on another planet with so many differences from Earth what good assumptions do we have to key off of?
There is a push by JPL to find evidence of water and life on mars for propogandisitic purposes tied to obtaining taxpayer funding and this drives public interest, and hence funding.
There are great excercises in semantics practiced by disingenuous scientists as in science a water may simply be a fluid state of, say, 02 and not HO2.
What happened to you, that you're so warped as to call what would be man's greatest achievement pathetic. You seem to be a terribly small-minded person.
Robbing the mass of people scrambling to make a living in a declining economy to plant a flag on a desert orb borders on psychopathy. We had a like "achievement" planting a flag on the moon. Have we followed up with anything? No. Because it was an expensive, useless endeavor justified only by the cold war and nothing else.
E Proelio Veritas.
Because they always give a big news stating the found evidence of water in Mars by that time. It's what, 10th year in a row we ear the same news? Those congressman should be a bit senile if they have to be remembered the same fantastically awesomely legendary big news about water in Mars every year.
I wonder how you would go about dating the rocks on Mars.
Oh, same as here. Treat it with respect, bring some flowers, take it to see a movie, compliment it on its geological features, and dont try to bang two rocks together right away.
If we believe that the water and atmosphere were lost because Mars lacks a magnetosphere, the question comes to mind: could we create a magnetosphere? Put rings of electrically charged satellites in orbits, using solar panels or small nuclear reactors maintain their charge. If that's not enough fast motion, make the satellites into electron guns, each satellite aimed at where the next satellite will be able to collect the particles???
Boy, how awesome would society be if we limited scientific research to what was deemed "useful"?
As we're projected to top 9 billion people by 2050, I think finding new places to live and new sources of resources is incredibly useful, especially now, before the mass starvation and death. Perhaps you think it would be best to wait until after the fact? Or do you just not give a shit because you'll probably be dead by then?
No. The analogy is perfect. It is about adapting to live in another environment. In the grand scheme of things, the earth will be a dead end eventually...just like the first of our ancestors who wouldn't follow their family members out of the trees and into the savannahs to scavenge. Colonizing the universe is inevitable. You're just one of the animals that won't leave the trees because wandering across the savannah is risky and uses too much energy.
But nobody likes poles.
I forget.... are 'yo mama' jokes modded up or down around here?
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
That's the average pressure, in the canyons and other deep places, this pressure gets much higher, up to 1150 pascal in Hellas Planitia. So at this pressure, water is liquid from about 0 to 7 degrees celsius. Not a big range, but definitly not impossible.
Huygens probe found almost every basic hydrocarbon there. Liquid methane flows shape Titan's continents and oceans. Super cold ice behaves like bedrock there.
And any new probe to Titan before 2030 has been shelved.
You are very clever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming
And thats even before the Tea Party wields its knife in a possible Romney victory later this year.
These researchers are fighting for their careers!
Not to be a bummer, but there have been other similar stories regarding evidence of water on the surface of mars. Nothing new here, we still can not prove it and there is no water there now.
Don't take my word for it. Water on Mars Wiki
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Mars is not the Earth. You just don't understand that what you just wrote does not apply to Mars. This is the response I get constantly. Apparently, people just do not yet get that Mars is not an extension of the Earth and the ways we are used to expressing ourselves about the Earth do not apply to Mars. What savannahs? What animals? What anything?
It's about learning to live in environments that we're not already biologically suited to. Wearing animal skins enabled us to live in colder climates. Agriculture and hunting animals with spears allowed us to live in environments that didn't have enough gatherable food to sustain us. Mars is no different. Off planet, we will have to figure out new ways to survive. It's the endeavor of moving into new territory and figuring our how to survive that keeps us learning and figuring out new ways to survive. Moving into the savannahs forced us to walk on two legs. It forced us to develop tools to cutting up dead animals and transporting the food we found. It forced us to develop fire. It forced us to develop all of the knowledge that we have today. It's that knowledge which makes us what we are. The most adaptable animal on the planet. It's what makes us the ultimate winners in the game of evolution and there's absolutely no reason we should limit it to our own planet.
What's pathetic is your anti-science, anti-curiosity, money-worshiping comment. Going to Mars is far from useless. In fact, there is no such thing as useless science. As far as anyone knows (no matter how unlikely) we could find unobtainium or some other incredibly useful substance on Mars that simply doesn't exist on Earth. And whether or not evidence of Martian life is found, it has answered a question and if you don't think knowledge is worth paying for, you're on the wrong website. Why did you even bother registering an ID? To troll?
Free Martian Whores!
Opportunity did find water and waited to keep glory for itself.
I wonder how you would go about dating the rocks on Mars. On Earth we have good estimates of initial U-235/U-238 ratios (and other radioactive materials) and the carbon cycle allows us to C-14 date things. But on another planet with so many differences from Earth what good assumptions do we have to key off of?
Isochron dating would probably be a good approach. You don't need to know the initial ratio.
If a Martian TV camera is ever found, I'm sure it will be found by Steven Squyres.
Also, don't stare at the cleavage, it makes them uncomfortable.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
Probably just needs a cup of hot cocoa and a blanket.
I drank what? -- Socrates
Before we get to the point of colonizing Mars we would do well to learn to live in all environments on Earth first. It will give us necessary experience.
There is a not a section of land on Earth that would be harder to colonize than the easiest section of Mars.
The Atacama desert is a rather Mars like, try perfecting living there first, then decide if you want to go someplace even more inhospitable as that.
Space exploration in general may give us more places to live, but it won't give us better places to live.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
You are so missing the point.
Quiet. We're not even to the asteroid belt yet!
They can take my LifeAlert pendant when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
I think he got your point.
Just because he called bullshit on your point in a well formulated and polite way you decided to shift the argument and accuse him of being too dim-witted to understand what you meant.
Upon carefully considering both posts, I conclude his reasoning is more sound.
Philosophers and dreamers truly have good ideas that should be explored. - Mostly by engineers that have a clue about how to do it.
Nothing we have learned since becoming space-faring has taught us how to live in space. Only how to barely keep from dying every time. Let's walk before we run. At the very least it'll save several trillion dollars and a few hundred of our best lives.
All these worlds are yours - except Europa.
Attempt no landings there.
Those large companies are the ones pushing for expensive trips to Mars. NASA is just a front organization. Wake up.