Google's Grand Android Plan

CWmike writes with news of a significant change in Google's strategy for Android. According to a Wall Street Journal report, "Google plans to give multiple mobile-device makers early access to new releases of Android and to sell those devices directly to consumers, said people familiar with the matter. That is a shift from Google's previous practice, when it joined with only one hardware maker at a time to produce 'lead devices,' before releasing the software to other device makers. Those lead devices were then sold to consumers through wireless carriers or retailers." JR Raphael adds, "Signs of something big have been brewing in AndroidLand for some time now: First, we've had the increasingly loud buzz about Google's top-secret mission to build an inexpensive Nexus-like tablet. Then, last month, Google opened the door to selling unlocked Nexus devices directly to consumers, eliminating the need for carrier meddling and contract commitments. Now, at long last, we're getting a glimpse at what's likely the final piece of the puzzle."

Comments

1st post

[Anonymous Coward]

this was my grand plan

Re:1st post

[Anonymous Coward]

You surely have great ambitions, uh.

Re:1st post

[Anonymous Coward]

Boy, I tell you: you ain't lived until you've had a mule cock in your ass. Whoo, doggy! Yee haw!!!!

"just think if you could"

[gl4ss]

"just think if you could switch carriers because you have an unlocked phone"

well, eh. I do have.

not much of a grand plan really. I'd reckon most galaxies worldwide were sold unlocked too. US is a bunch of partial payment pussies and changing that is a grand plan I suppose. they should just lobby the government in USA to force network operators to not lock and to use compatible tech and to disclose handset subsidies and real pricing.

Re:"just think if you could"

[upside]

This. How about mandating that the customer get to keep his/her number when switching networks? *Boggle*

Competition. The US has heard of it.

Re:"just think if you could"

[neokushan]

Wait, you can't keep your number when you move networks? Is that like a US thing?
In the UK, there's loads of legally binding things to make sure you can keep your number. In fact, it has to be transferred to your new provider within 48hours and I think that time frame is getting shorter.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Anonymous Coward]

You can port your number between any major US carrier... Not sure what you are going on about...

Two things stop any meaningful "freedom" for cell phone users in the US.

1. Network technology and frequency, every carrier as the their own freq. bands and versions of tech. So switching isn't possible in a lot of cases.

2. Carrier, 2 year contracts to lock you in. Part of the issue is the "discounted" phones but the MAIN issue is the Carrier's WON'T give a discount on service if you buy your phone outright so you gain nothing by doing it.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but you get the number the government decides you should have.

Freedom comes with a price.

Re:"just think if you could"

[ozmanjusri]

You can borrow this one, if you like.

The Telecommunications Consumer Protections Code C628:2007 establishes processes that will enable you to transfer between telephone companies, by stipulating the maximum length of time a transfer can take, notification and validation processes, and mechanisms for avoiding invalid transfers.

How will a transfer affect my telephone services?
The telephone company that currently provides you with a telephone service must continue to provide you with a service during the transfer. Your ability to make a telephone call should not be affected. Once the transfer process is complete, you will retain your current telephone number and any call barring or unlisted number status.

http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_1726

Re:"just think if you could"

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

This. How about mandating that the customer get to keep his/her number when switching networks? *Boggle*

Actually, you can. Since ~2004 or so.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Sancho]

You can. It's called number porting, and we've had it for a while. I don't know what the GP was talking about--maybe he was going to sarcasm, but it didn't come across.

Re:"just think if you could"

[ChristW]

I've had my current phone number since... 1995 or something like that. Probably before that.

Note that I live in The Netherlands.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell are you talking about. Its been law for years in the US. You can port your number to any carrier. If a carrier is telling you otherwise, they are lying.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Anonymous Coward]

2. Carrier, 2 year contracts to lock you in. Part of the issue is the "discounted" phones but the MAIN issue is the Carrier's WON'T give a discount on service if you buy your phone outright so you gain nothing by doing it.

T-Mobile gives service discounts for non-subsidized devices. And as more people discover they can purchase a phone and save money, plus get a service discount, I imagine it will slowly become more popular. On an average smart phone, buying your phone outright, even without service discounts, most people can save $250-$500 per year. So sorry, you've missed just about every correct answer on that one.

This is, of course, why the carriers don't want to encourage their customers to migrate to that model, because it would cost them many millions of dollars per year.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm fairly sure you get a random number. My number started as a random unregistered PAYG using pre-paid cards paid with cash, until the point I decided a contract would probably work out cheaper. So sure if you choose to pay for it using anything than pre-pay, you register your phone/sim, or port your number then you'll instantly lose anonymity, but that's not the same thing. :)

Re:"just think if you could"

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Sure; but my point is that the FCC introduced regulations requiring US carriers to support retaining the number in 2004.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Anonymous Coward]

No it won't. Americans are starting to take out five-year loans on used cars. "Spend more now to save money in the long run" is not part of our national mindset. I say this as someone who bought an unlocked Nexus One and got that discounted T-Mo plan. I know damn well that most people won't do that.

Re:"just think if you could"

[gandhi_2]

The weirdest thing is trying to get a pager number ported to a cell.

Very small carriers and pager carriers were exempt from the portability law.

And it looks like if a company says they "can't" port a pager number, nothing in the world can get them to change their minds.

It is as if the pager number is burned into the bios of their routing equipment, and changing that is a complete impossibility.

Re:"just think if you could"

[BStroms]

You can port your number between any major US carrier... Not sure what you are going on about...

Actually, this is only partly true. The ability to keep your number is regulated by the government in the Wireless Local Number Portability. However, as the name might suggest, it's only applies if you're living in the right area code for your cell phone. I don't have that option because I moved across state lines but didn't want to change my number. If I switch carriers, I lose my number.

Re:"just think if you could"

[realityimpaired]

In the UK, there's loads of legally binding things to make sure you can keep your number. In fact, it has to be transferred to your new provider within 48hours and I think that time frame is getting shorter.

Same in Canada... As long as you're not moving to a different LD calling area, you can take your number with you (and even if you are, you can, you'll just be paying LD rates with most carriers). The rules say within 48h, but personal experience switching providers says it's closer to about 5 minutes... I have had the same phone number with 4 different providers in the last 10 years, and the longest it has actually taken to port the number was about 20 minutes. And they warned me it might take longer than usual that time, because they were having a system outage at the time.

It boggles the mind that the US hasn't heard of LNP.

Re:"just think if you could"

[42sd]

I have a St Louis number and I'm currently 400 some odd miles away and was able to port mine last month with Virgin Mobile. You might want to double check that.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Anonymous Coward]

2. Carrier, 2 year contracts to lock you in. Part of the issue is the "discounted" phones but the MAIN issue is the Carrier's WON'T give a discount on service if you buy your phone outright so you gain nothing by doing it.

T-Mobile gives service discounts for non-subsidized devices. And as more people discover they can purchase a phone and save money, plus get a service discount, I imagine it will slowly become more popular. On an average smart phone, buying your phone outright, even without service discounts, most people can save $250-$500 per year. So sorry, you've missed just about every correct answer on that one.

This is, of course, why the carriers don't want to encourage their customers to migrate to that model, because it would cost them many millions of dollars per year.

LOL what? where does this savings come from? the money fairy?

Re:"just think if you could"

[medcalf]

Yes, you can keep your number in the US when you switch. I've had the same number for twelve years across three carriers.

Re:"just think if you could"

[vlm]

2. Carrier, 2 year contracts to lock you in. Part of the issue is the "discounted" phones but the MAIN issue is the Carrier's WON'T give a discount on service if you buy your phone outright so you gain nothing by doing it.

Also no service discount after the 2 years are up. At least as of last time I had a contract phone, probably nearly a decade ago now.

Re:"just think if you could"

[vlm]

If I switch carriers, I lose my number.

My solution to a similar problem with a different cause was GOOG voice. Port it to GOOG and point GOOG to the new number.

After doing this I noticed how rarely "other people" call my cellphone for voice. Communication seems to have moved to email and social networks.

Re:"just think if you could"

[hobarrera]

Argentina sell phones carrier-less in general, and I belive that it's not the only country where this is common. Granted, mobile phone cost quite a bit more, but a mobile phone is yours once you have it, not two years later.

Re:"just think if you could"

[hobarrera]

There's plenty of other countries where the number is legally yours forever. Argentina is an example. US has far more carrier-friendly laws, clearly.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Vetala]

The US absolutely has heard of number portability. In fact they had it before Canada did. I used to work in a call center for a US mobile provider, and I was hired in a ramp up they were doing *because* almost all of their existing agents in that center had moved in to dealing with number portability. They started actually doing it just months after I was hired (which would have been late 2003 if I remember).

Now, I escaped from there, so I don't know if anything has changed - but I seriously doubt they've stopped offering it (I live in Canada, and basically ignore everything the US decides to do, unless forced to deal with it).

Re:"just think if you could"

[hobarrera]

Yeah, but you're in the same situation again; you can't get rid of Google Voice, just as you couldn't get of a bad carrier in the past. Not really a very good solution in the long run.

Re:"just think if you could"

[BStroms]

There's no rule that they can't let you keep the number. It's just not required. That said, I believe it's up to you current carrier to agree to release your number to the new carrier, and we all know how accommodating companies can be about helping you switch to their competitor. Maybe your old carrier gets high marks for customer service, or someone didn't notice it wasn't a local port and gave the green light anyway. Not everyone will be so fortunate.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Anonymous Coward]

2. Carrier, 2 year contracts to lock you in. Part of the issue is the "discounted" phones but the MAIN issue is the Carrier's WON'T give a discount on service if you buy your phone outright so you gain nothing by doing it.

T-Mobile gives discounts for not having a subsidized plan. They cut $20 per month per line.

  T-Mobile being the one is fine by me, as I'd have to hold my nose to use Verizon and if AT&T will never get my business (I'd have jumped ship to Verizon in an instant if the buyout had gone through).

Re:"just think if you could"

[vlm]

Ah but GOOG voice forwarding is free and always works, so I have no reason to get rid of them.
There are other providers who can be ported away from GOOG if it ever becomes necessary.
I'm using less voice every year so I could just get rid of "my" number.

The point is phone number termination and forwarding to a handset is, or can be, decoupled from handset access to the network.

I remember back in 93 when I had a home SLIP account to the internet with my own personal static ip address, and I was kinda pissed when it went away in '95 or '96 or whatever and I had a crappy dynamic address via PPP. But I got over it eventually and its not so big of a deal after awhile.

Re:"just think if you could"

[surd1618]

I would like it if you could elaborate, maybe you have an anecdote even?

Re:"just think if you could"

[amRadioHed]

They come from the discounted monthly fee. Save $20-$30 a month, over 2 years amounts to a savings of $480-$720. If I pay $500 for a phone off contract instead of $50 for a phone on contract, clearly I'm saving money in the long run. He's exaggerating the extent of the savings, but they are savings regardless.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Githaron]

I know I definitely would buy my own phone if Verizon would offer a service discount.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Coren22]

Unfortunately, that one is a double wammy, you can't buy unlocked Verizon phones, and they don't give a discount :(

Re:"just think if you could"

[Githaron]

The only reason I say Verizon is because I got on their unlimited 4G data plan before quit offering it to new customers. If they force me to go to a limited data plan, there wouldn't be much holding me to them anymore.

Re:"just think if you could"

[Anonymous Coward]

T-Mobile does offer discounted "Value" plans if you buy buy your phone upfront or BYOP, in which case they give you the SIM card for no charge. I can't speak to what any other carrier offers.

Re:"just think if you could"

[mjwx]

"just think if you could switch carriers because you have an unlocked phone"

Yep, that's pretty much how it works in the parts of the world not called USA.

I have an unlocked phone (HTC Desire) and can go to any carrier in Australia at the moment. The only thing I'd miss is Telstra's LTE but seeing as there wont be enough coverage to make that remotely missable until 2014 at least (the network only just left testing) it's no skin off my nose.

Re:"just think if you could"

[fredthomsen]

T-Mobile is refarming their HSPA+ spectrum to the 1900mhz band will help a lot for the first point. At least t-mobile and at&t will be on the same page when it comes to 3g frequency bands.

1. Network technology and frequency, every carrier as the their own freq. bands and versions of tech. So switching isn't possible in a lot of cases.

T-Mobile has great pre-paid plans if you live in an urban area.

2. Carrier, 2 year contracts to lock you in. Part of the issue is the "discounted" phones but the MAIN issue is the Carrier's WON'T give a discount on service if you buy your phone outright so you gain nothing by doing it.

Tried before and failed; see previous /. stories

[tepples]

I thought Google tried selling Nexus devices directly to U.S. end users before and declared it a failure after complaints.

Wow Google is missing the problem...

[SerpentMage]

The main problem with Android is not that the network carriers are the problem. Sure there are issues with it. BUT please tell me how my Acer Iconia tablet and its lack of updates is somehow a problem of the network carrier?

The problem with Android is that it is becoming a clustereff! I have an Android phone and Android tablet. I also have an iPhone, and iPad. I prefer the iPhone and iPad.

Here are some issues:

1) lack of updates! We have two android tablets and one android phone and the updates just SUCK!
2) apps will not work across devices. I can understand that tablet apps will not work on a phone. But I have phone games where if they run on the tablet the graphics do really funky things and are completely unusable.
3) Why on earth is the chrome browser only on ICS, and not honey comb? There is no excuse.
4) Battery life truly does suck in comparison to my iOS devices.
5) Performance and usability is lackluster. Windows Phone, and iOS devices have superior UI response. This goes back to the architectural design of Android vs iOS/Windows Phone.

I gave Android a chance, truly tried to like it, but I wish Google would focus on the Android operating system and cleaning that up instead of trying to push the blame to the others. Instead Google thinks the best use of its money is to develop augmented reality glasses...

BTW just for kicks, nowhere in any of the Star Trek series have there been augmented reality glasses! It is a dumb idea! Oh wait there was this one episode... BAD GOOGLE, BAD! ;)

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[alen]

unlike AMD and Intel where x86 CPU's work with all apps, ARM CPU's are different. the early Tegra CPU's were notorious for missing features that other ARM CPU's had. they might all run the same instruction set but there are other features that some CPU's don't support.

Tegra didn't support something called NEON which is why Skype video calling didn't work on nvidia SoC's for months

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I have an Adroid tablet and an Android phone (SGII) and outside of a few things that were created for phones (pre-ICS) that didn't format properly on the tablet, I've had no issues with differing platforms. In fact the Play Store shows you which android devices you can install a given app on from your browser. And UI response on my devices is great. The updates from the phone manufacturers can be slow (not Google's fault) but there is a thriving community to get whatever you need for your phones/tbalets. Chrome is only in beta, so I assume it's only on ICS because they wanted to launch it on the current flagship phone (Nexus S). I don't have an iOS device but my Samsung phone is comparable or better in battery life to what my friends get with their iPhone (anecdotal, but not sure you can blame the OS either way unless you compare iOS to Android on the same HW).

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[CastrTroy]

This has always been my problem with Android (although I'm a relatively happy Android phone user). If Android is really an open operating system. we shouldn't have to rely on the device manufacturers and network carriers to get software updates for it. If Google wants to compete with iPhone/iPad on customer satisfaction, they should make it so that companies selling Android devices sell them unlocked, and that users can easily install other firmware on them. There should also be an "official" Android release from Google that people are free to download and (using the mandated easy to install new firmware support) install on their phone/tablet. Carriers/manufacturers should be free to put whatever crap they want to on the device at the time of sale, but the consumer should have the ability to easily upgrade the software, and uninstall stuff that the carrier puts on there. Apple has been pretty fair about support older phones with new software updates even when they release newer phones. Android should be the same, if not better. Looking at Android right now, it seems the best bet is to get a device "supported" by Cyanogen, as they seem to be the ones churning out the most updates, and trying to get newer releeases of Android on older phones. However, that's still not a great solution since there's many pleas from people bricking/boot-looping their phones on the forums that it's not something I would recommend to the lay-user.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[Richard_at_work]

Updates are a worry to me as well - although I eventually decided my Android adventure wasn't working with my HTC Desire, I've been looking heavily at the Galaxy Note in the past week or two. Having played with one a lot, I think Samsung have a good grip on the issues I had before, but my main issue is that the device is 6 months old, and yet is only just getting ICS this week. So I have to start my comparisons from catch again when I get one with ICS on to play with - is it still responsive, do the apps still work, does the update overbear the hardware etc etc etc.

The Note should have had ICS 4 or more months ago. Right now, the slow update is a huge negative.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[chowdahhead]

You've touched on the whole point of this without realizing it. Expanding the nexus program will give people more options for unlocked stock Android devices that are updated frequently. I'm not predicting success, but it holds potential.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

BUT please tell me how my Acer Iconia tablet and its lack of updates is somehow a problem of the network carrier?

Pebsac, by the looks of it:

"Whenever there is the new Android version or the fix is available, Acer never misses it and it quickly pushes to the users. "

http://androidadvices.com/acer-iconia-tab-a100-a500-official-android-40-ics-firmware-update/

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[Savage-Rabbit]

The problem with Android is that it is becoming a clustereff! I have an Android phone and Android tablet. I also have an iPhone, and iPad. I prefer the iPhone and iPad.

Here are some issues:

1) lack of updates! We have two android tablets and one android phone and the updates just SUCK!
2) apps will not work across devices. I can understand that tablet apps will not work on a phone. But I have phone games where if they run on the tablet the graphics do really funky things and are completely unusable.
3) Why on earth is the chrome browser only on ICS, and not honey comb? There is no excuse.
4) Battery life truly does suck in comparison to my iOS devices.
5) Performance and usability is lackluster. Windows Phone, and iOS devices have superior UI response. This goes back to the architectural design of Android vs iOS/Windows Phone.

Every Android device vendor seems to have their own custom ROM and you can't rely on the fact that they will update it. Basically, as a user, you can be lucky with an Android device or you can be SOL. When people ask me which Android device to buy I usually recommend the device vendor that seems to have the best track record on updates. Check out the following link, it's one of the best visualizations of the state of Android fragmentation I have yet seen:
http://opensignalmaps.com/reports/fragmentation.php Developing for Android looks like a bit of a nightmare but this guy is still surprisingly optimistic considering the legions of exotic devices he has to deal with.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

The best thing that could happen to Android is an unlocked, pre-rooted phone. Either that or just an easier process to update firmware. The problem we have is too many people trying to protect us from ourselves. Compare all the stuff you have to do to upgrade your phone with an "unofficial" release to what you have to do to install Linux on your PC and tell me that the updates from the "thriving community" are a viable option.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[drinkypoo]

If Google wants to compete with iPhone/iPad on customer satisfaction, they should make it so that companies selling Android devices sell them unlocked, and that users can easily install other firmware on them. There should also be an "official" Android release from Google that people are free to download and (using the mandated easy to install new firmware support) install on their phone/tablet.

This is neither possible nor desirable. in order for this to happen Google would have to know everything about every Android device, which is not what we want. We want anyone to be able to make a device. And as iWhatevers never come unlocked and WindozePhonezzz don't always come unlocked either, you're asking for something that nobody gives you. Why should Android be held to a higher standard than everyone else?

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

Some dick keeps modding you flame bait, I tried modding you up, but the same dick modded you back down again. I even checked your post history before I modded up to interesting. I reckon you're on the level. Seems like a Fandroid has got you...

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[CastrTroy]

Nonsense. Ubuntu doesn't have to know the hardware of every single computer sold to work on all types of software. MS doesn't have to know the hardware of every Windows PC to be able to make an OS that runs on them. A phone/tablet in the end is just a small computer. The hardware on the devices does not vary that much from manufacturer to manufacturer. I think Google should do something like MS does with it's "Designed for Windows" program, so that consumers know they are getting a device that can be upgraded easily. Since Android is open, manufacturers would still be able to go against Google's wishes and load Android on the device, but I think that Google should be pushing them the device makers to make it easier for people to keep the software is up-to-date, and they should be working with consumers to make them look for devices that carry the "seal of approval" so that they can be assured proper updates.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[drinkypoo]

Nonsense. Ubuntu doesn't have to know the hardware of every single computer sold to work on all types of software.

Uh, do you mean, work on all types of hardware? Because it clearly doesn't.

MS doesn't have to know the hardware of every Windows PC to be able to make an OS that runs on them.

That's because the tools that the manufacturers use to make the Windows PC report itself to Windows (like the EDID and so on) are written by microsoft and designed to tell Windows the truth and lie to other operating systems, and because Windows DOES know the hardware of these PCs; the manufacturers develop drivers specifically for Windows which are then in many cases sent to Microsoft. And when they don't pay for this service, or don't send it in, then you need to supply a driver disc or in some cases actually need to slipstream the driver before the hardware can be used with your OS. But this is an infeasible solution in Linux-land because the driver ABI is a moving target. I heard some mumbles about there being movement along those lines, though, with some targets some people might be able to hit, but you're still left hoping that the manufacturer develops new drivers. The drivers may well be closed-source, especially for mobile devices.

A phone/tablet in the end is just a small computer. The hardware on the devices does not vary that much from manufacturer to manufacturer.

But actually, it does. It varies a hell of a lot.

Since Android is open, manufacturers would still be able to go against Google's wishes and load Android on the device, but I think that Google should be pushing them the device makers to make it easier for people to keep the software is up-to-date, and they should be working with consumers to make them look for devices that carry the "seal of approval" so that they can be assured proper updates.

You're asking for a lot of things which don't exist in any other software ecosystem.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[I_am_Jack]

The best thing that could happen to Android is an unlocked, pre-rooted phone. Either that or just an easier process to update firmware.

Rooting an Android phone is almost a no-brainer. There are several forums where even the noobiest of noobs can follow an instruction list and do it themselves. Updating firmware once a custom recovery app like Clockwork Mod is installed is also very easy (relatively; if you can install CWM, you can do just about everything else). I'm running ICS on my Galaxy S handset now. Seven months ago this phone had T-Mobile's bloatware version of 2.1. I wouldn't hesitate to root, unlock and install a new ROM on any new handset I buy in the future.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[kidgenius]

Nonsense. Ubuntu doesn't have to know the hardware of every single computer sold to work on all types of software.

I can guarantee that Ubuntu will NOT work 100% on every hardware configuration. Good luck getting certain graphics cards to work, fully accelerated. That is the issue with phones. Yes, Android will run on the phones. The trick is that there are proprietary HW drivers that are needed to make the phone work properly. Guess who has the drivers? The manufacturers. Guess who doesn't want to release the drivers? The manufacturers.

but I think that Google should be pushing them the device makers to make it easier for people to keep the software is up-to-date, and they should be working with consumers to make them look for devices that carry the "seal of approval" so that they can be assured proper updates.

Umm....you just outlined the Nexus program in a nutshell. By providing stock systems, it allows for phones to be more easily updated by El Goog themselves....but you still need the manufacturers to provide the drivers for the phones.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[deepthoughtless]

From TFA: "In this model, everyone can still customize and modify the platform all they want, but Google will have its own inner circle of premium devices with pure and premium experiences." A lot of the problems you're talking about aren't about Google's core OS, but rather specific manufacturer's iterations of the OS. The bloat, the arbitrary limitations imposed by hardware/software choices. Sounds to me like detaching from network carriers is really only a small part of the equation, and it's more about guaranteeing a series of devices that are in line with Google's vision of what Android is supposed to be.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[chrb]

Developing for Android looks like a bit of a nightmare

It isn't as bad as it seems. For most app developers, you just set the minimum SDK level that you want to support in Eclipse, and then it won't allow you to use any earlier APIs. As for fragmentation, it is no worse than Windows - where you need to support various combinations of: 32-bit / 64-bit, XP (release+SP1,SP2,SP3) / Windows 7 (release+SP1), various hardware manufacturers Dell/Lenovo/HP/Acer/Toshiba ... the testing departments of large companies doing Windows development test and certify across many platform combinations. Undoubtedly, this is harder than having a single hardware/software platform, but it is not impossible or unmanageable.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[Savage-Rabbit]

It isn't as bad as it seems. For most app developers, you just set the minimum SDK level that you want to support in Eclipse, and then it won't allow you to use any earlier APIs. As for fragmentation, it is no worse than Windows - where you need to support various combinations of: 32-bit / 64-bit, XP (release+SP1,SP2,SP3) / Windows 7 (release+SP1), various hardware manufacturers Dell/Lenovo/HP/Acer/Toshiba ... the testing departments of large companies doing Windows development test and certify across many platform combinations. Undoubtedly, this is harder than having a single hardware/software platform, but it is not impossible or unmanageable.

I didn't mean to suggest it's unmanageable let alone impossible, just time and effort consuming. According to that article his gripe seems to be mainly with API fragmentation, and the enormous variety of display resolutions. Making his app look good on gawd knows how many display sizes and resolutions must be a time consuming task.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

The linux kernel has evolved to support countless thousands of hardware components. I'm not sure what the current status is, but I remember back in the day there was almost no hardware acceleration for video cards. There was a 2 year lag between when a new video card would come out and official support was available (luckily most of the devices could "work" via older drivers, but they didn't take full advantage of the device).

Where are you going to get the "driver" for motorola's latest 5G modem if motorola doesn't release it? ( I use the word modem loosely). Are you going to wait 2 years after 5G comes out before you can use it?

In order to "root" and upgrade your phone, you have to have to get the version that was built for YOUR phone, and generally that is made by reverse engineering/ripping out the drivers from the existing version provided by the manufacturer.

Android phones use arm based chips yes, but full capabilities of the specific chip are greatly varied, and the hardware each phone uses is specific to the manufacturer (and potentially model).

Its not like people go out and buy a new 4G radio and plug it into their phones PCI slot and install a driver from a cd.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Right now, the slow update is a huge negative." My android phone got 2.3.1 about the time 4.0 was being talked about, and was recently given the good graces to upgrade to 2.3.4 (not even 2.3.5!). Did I mention the update broke multi-touch support? And there are about 1000 other confirmed bugs that were introduced in the 2.3.x updates.

I carry an iPhone4S now (still use the android device for dev). After that the iPhone i realized that the lag in connecting my bluetooth head set as well as long delay when placing phone calls were due to the android phone and not headset and carrier respectively. (my head set used to take 10 seconds to connect, I had long random delays before my phone would start connecting, etc).

Also, not once has my iPhone4s randomly decided to reboot in the middle of playing music or a phone call (my android phone loved to reboot after my phone calls rang one time on the other end, which confused the hell out of people I called).

For the record, this was not an "ancient" android device. My contract wasn't even ready to renew from its purchase (at the time it was the most expensive in the store) when I switched to iPhone.

I love the fact that we have a linux based mobile os. But lets be honest, its a piece of crap.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[SteveX]

The typical routine for a new PC is to install the OS, and then find and install drivers for the hardware you have.

With a phone, the hardware is often proprietary and different from device to device. In the PC world, you get your video card driver from the guys who sold the video card, but with the phone, all the hardware comes from the device manufacturer, so they'd need to be the ones supplying updated drivers.

And the incentive just isn't there for Samsung or HTC to spend money working on software that enables an older device to run a newer OS. Samsung makes money when you buy the hardware, and that's it, unlike in Apple's world, where they also make money when you buy software, so it's in their interest to keep your phone current.

One solution would be for Google to declare a reference platform and if your phone is based on the reference platform, then you can get Google's OS and install it directly. Problem there is the carriers don't want that.

So if Google is going to succeed here, they're going to need to sell a cheap phone ($199 range - you've got to compete with carrier subsidized phones) that's good enough quality that people actually want it, sell it direct, and support it themselves. Problem is, I'm not sure there's any profit in doing that.

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[DinDaddy]

And as iWhatevers never come unlocked

Except sometimes. http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/09/business/la-fi-tn-unlock-iphone-20120409

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[SerpentMage]

I am sorry, but this is crap... I have an Acer Iconia in SWITZERLAND... We get updates whenever...

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[SerpentMage]

Yeah thanks I was wondering about this... I was actually surprised that I was modded as a troll... Na ja there goes Slashdot...

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

>Every Android device vendor seems to have their own custom ROM and you can't rely on the fact that they will update it

Exact same problem that Windows Mobile had. I wondered how the hell Google was going to avoid that; looks like the answer was that they couldn't. LOL

Re:Wow Google is missing the problem...

[otterpop81]

If Android is really an open operating system. we shouldn't have to rely on the device manufacturers and network carriers to get software updates for it.

If Android was GPL, that's _exactly_ what you'd have. Instead, Android, with it's "permissive" license is Open Source to the handset manufacturer, and then, most of the time, closed source from the handset manufacturer to you the end consumer, because the handset maker is not _required_ to give you the source. The end result is a phone with software that you can't modify and that you can't update.

The only way around it is to buy a Google-branded phone like one in the Nexus line which is supported by the stock Android source code from Google. Even then, you don't get updates forever. The Nexus One for example is not supported by Android 4.0.

Selling Nexus Devices Directly

[Anonymous Coward]

Google actually tried this about two years ago and failed with the Nexus One. Do they actually have plans to support these devices this time around?

When will Android actually be open?

[kthreadd]

Looks like Android could potentially become open in the more traditional way, not just "Look it runs Linux and you can customize the home screen"; but from TFA it unfortunately sounds more like non-disclosure for a certain few.

Maybe it's time to fork Android into LibreAndroid.

Re:When will Android actually be open?

[monkeyhybrid]

Looks like Android could potentially become open in the more traditional way, not just "Look it runs Linux and you can customize the home screen"; but from TFA it unfortunately sounds more like non-disclosure for a certain few.

Android as an OS is open. Android as a consumer product is unfortunately usually restricted due to carriers and device manufacturers customising the OS and then dropping support for the device as soon as the next model comes along. This does suck, and as you say, hopefully this move by Google will help solve this issue.

Until that day...

Maybe it's time to fork Android into LibreAndroid.

You're free to do so but maybe it's just easier to install the massively popular CyanogenMod.

Not convinced

[Theophany]

I'm not convinced of the likely success of this 'grand plan.' Consumers are used to paying next to no initial outlay for a handset on the understanding that it will be paid for through their carrier agreement and this has been the way for so long now that changing the way consumers view mobile devices and service plans is going to be a mammoth task. Not least for those who cannot justify dropping £400 on a device on the promise of future savings made from not having a fixed-term price plan of 18-24 months.

Besides which, Google have been selling Nexus phones unlocked, direct to the consumer for ages now. I nearly bought an HTC Nexus direct from Google back when they started the project years ago. All this pomp and ceremony because there will be no more Nexus exclusivity? Big whoop. Part of Android's beauty is that OEM customisations allow consumers to vote with their feet.

Re:Not convinced

[Threni]

None of that's going to change. This is another channel. OEM's can do what they like, but I can get:

a new phone (supported properly by the retailer, and not have the network only give me a 6 month warranty)

with proper Android (no trial version of crap games, or no future updates because this network, using that manufacturers phone, can't be bothered to do so even though other networks/manufacturers can),

updates as soon as they come out

unlocked bootloaders so I can put Cyanogenmod (and other ) roms on

more transparent pricing (I can pay £10 per month in the UK for unlimited data/texts and more minutes than I use - why the hell would I want to be locked into a 2 year contract and pay way over the odds for it?)

Re:Not convinced

[Anonymous Coward]

http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2853079&cid=40015663

I made a more fleshed out comment earlier, and won't repeat it all here, but I will say this. After 5 months of prepaid service, I will have saved enough to make up the difference in cost of the subsidized phone. In eight months, I will have paid for the phone. In two years, I will have saved $600 and feel great about buying another unlocked phone. People don't like the idea because of marketing, not math. Tell your family, tell your friends, and maybe you can save them some money too.

Re:Not convinced

[thegarbz]

Not only that, but at least where I live carriers seem to apply penalties if you bring in your own phone and pre-pay. They bundle all sorts of deals such as free SMS, free social network traffic, excessive usage caps on voice, free voicemail, and other such things for what amounts to essentially paying the same amount as if I brought my own phone with me.

I remember going from pre-paid to a plan. I used to pay $40 / month, now I pay $43 / month. I went from a dumb phone to a smart phone which will be replaced every 18 months as long as I keep renewing the contract. I also now have all the benefits mentioned above.

Why would I pay for a phone outright?

Re:Not convinced

[Theophany]

Depends on how you define "paying over the odds."

Samsung Galaxy S3 is around £520 SIM Free for the 16Gb model. I got mine for free on a 24 month £36 per month contract. Sub out the cost I would face for the handset (36*24 = 864-520 = 344) then work out the monthly cost (344/24 = 14.3) and I'm paying less than £15 for unlimited calls, texts and data as well as not having to make a painful £520 purchase. I'll even admit that there are better deals out there right now, I just wanted to stay with my current network.

So that belief that you're saving a fortune by paying upfront whilst simultaneously accruing zero goodwill from your network by opting for their cheapest price plan is not the 'eureka moment' you seem to think it is.

Re:Not convinced

[Anonymous Coward]

goodwill from your network

Wait, you think this exists? I can "accrue goodwill" from that guy at the farmer's market that I buy from every week, or my independent motorcycle mechanic that knows me by name. The idea that you, as a single consumer, can "accrue goodwill" with a major cellphone carrier is delusional. You're a record in a database to them, and a millionth of a percent of their income.

Re:Not convinced

[blackest_k]

I pay 20 euro a month with loads of freebies. But you don't have that option .
Your mission if you chose to accept I it is to get the best deal you can . Hopefully you have at least two carriers to choose from.

Currently most. American cell companies suck because they don't have to compete much only by going with the best deals will you gain better deals further down the line.

If you don't make them fight for your money they will milk you all they can.

Re:Not convinced

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that even Amazon sells the S3 for 500 GBP. If you could do with a 10 GBP/month contract just as well, over 2 years you pay 124 GBP or over 16 % for the priviledge of avoiding the one-time cost.
There are also other issues (which I don't know if they exist in the UK), for example that after those two years you have to either continue with that contract or pay another 100 pound to get the phone unlocked.
Even if you don't, how many people will switch contracts after 2 years?
It's not the world really, but I for me personally those plans mean paying extra to get extra inconvenience (no switching to a local SIM so you can actually use the internet while on holiday for example - even within the EU data roaming is something you can only afford if you won the lottery).

Re:Not convinced

[Anonymous Coward]

Your cynicism is cute, but it's also nonsensical. By your logic a customer of 3 months would get the same renewal deal than a customer of two years.

In fact, a friend of mine got a stellar deal from his network when his contract expired because he had regularly breached his voice and data allowances, far better than I got for staying within my allowances.

But I'm guessing you live in the states ("cellphone carrier") and thus have no idea how a successful mobile telecommunication company operates (AT&T, epitomising customer disservice).

Re:Not convinced

[Anonymous Coward]

over 2 years you pay 124 GBP or over 16 % for the priviledge of avoiding the one-time cost

Mother of God... you mean there are people willing to pay more over the long-term to avoid stumping up a significant chunk of change in one go?

If only we could monetise this further, like with houses, cars, electrical appliances, chain store purchases, etc etc...

Re:Not convinced

[Hognoxious]

Consumers are used to paying next to no initial outlay for a handset on the understanding that it will be paid for through their carrier agreement

Understanding? Don't think so. Plenty of them think that phone really is free.

Re:Not convinced

[Monoman]

"Part of Android's beauty is that OEM customisations allow consumers to vote with their feet."

It isn't that easy in the US. Most people get locked into two year contracts. Changing hardware or carriers before the contract ends comes at a price.

Re:Not convinced

[TemporalBeing]

Consumers are used to paying next to no initial outlay for a handset

Perhaps the majority would stay there, but I'd be there is a big market for people like me (and my parents, my wife, etc) that would rather buy the phone ourselves and not be beholden to the contract of the provider.

how does the warranty work?

[alen]

with apple i can go into one of the 10 Apple stores in the NYC area and have a real life english speaking person look at my device and possibly exchange it on the spot.

google better not do it's regular retail FAIL where warranty/support is some internet forum where you get an answer in 3 days and have to send your phone somewhere hoping it won't get crapped on

Re:how does the warranty work?

[ceoyoyo]

I don't see any Google stores. So no, it's not going to be the same.

Re:how does the warranty work?

[fermion]

This is one of the things I was thinking about. Originally with Android, Google said they were going to just have OEMs build a phone, and they were not going to do it. This evidently did not work, so Google built the phone they said they never would. But Google does not have any customer service, and we have reports of people who have had a problem with their Google account, even one they paid for, getting very bad customer service, so why would I buy a product that no one is going to support. The mobile phone companies aren't going to support a contract free phone bought from someone else. So then they came up with idea of the special child, a OEM would would get special advanced Android code, while all the peasants had to wait. If you were a good peasant, you could get the code next time, but only if you were really good and did what Google wanted.

So know they are back the original strategy. The phone part might work, because Android does have market share, and probably less support is needed so they can handle many firms putting out a new phone at once, but what about the tablet? As the parent said, Google still has no support structure. The tablet model is a month to month data package, but carriers are in with Apple because the tablet is tied to a carrier. I would think that Google is not going to be intimate with carriers, and is going to put out either a WiFi only tablet, or one that can operate with a number of carriers. How this will end is probably how the original Nexus ended.

Re:how does the warranty work?

[Lisias]

The sad thing is that.... I'm an original Nexus user for years now.

I'm very satisfied. Yet. =)

(the thing has annoying glitches, but it does the job right!)

My main concern now is how in the hell I'll get another, if my one gets broke or stolen. I didn't liked *any* of the current alternatives. All of them are too much expensive, and doesn't give back anything that I already don't have (granted - my needs are not so sophisticated, I don't watch 1080i videos on demand on my phone!).

Re:how does the warranty work?

[Anonymous Coward]

I assume it works like it does now: If I have an issue with my Nexus S, I contact the local Samsung maintenance. They honor the warranty as long as the device was bought in the EU.

Sure, my example is local and does not mean it will be the same all over the world -- but so was your example: not everyone lives in a city (or country) with an Apple store.

Re:how does the warranty work?

[Anonymous Coward]

They have phone support for the Play Store now. I had to call because I cocked my order up. The phone was answered by what sounded to me like a native English speaker. The experience was pleasant.

Re:how does the warranty work?

[Coren22]

I can't imagine where you would get a new one:

http://www.google.com/nexus/#/buy

Re:how does the warranty work?

[Lisias]

They will sell the Nexus One again? Sweet! :-)

(common, what word of "original Nexus" didn't you understand?)

https://www.google.com.br/search?q=original+nexus+google

what is the point if my bill is the same?

[alen]

Europe is different but here in the US most carriers won't give you a break on the bill. i'm on a family plan and its A LOT cheaper than being on a single line plan so buying contract-free doesn't make sense for me.

Re:what is the point if my bill is the same?

[Anonymous Coward]

T-Mobile or Cincinatti Bell

Re:what is the point if my bill is the same?

[Rytr23]

This. I think T-Mobile did offer a break on a bring your own plan at one point, but none of the other carriers offer any discount for not using the subsidy. Also, are these "nexus" devices going to be cdma/gsm/evdo/hsdpa+/LTE + 8 Band units? No? What is the benefit of buying one exactly? I still can't switch carriers at will, I would only be able to switch between gsm carriers (Att/tmob) OR cdma carriers(vzw/sprint), and either VZW or Sprint could easily say no to them. It doesn't make much sense to do this unless you can buy a device with the right combo of tech/bands that will allow you to go to some shitty carrier like metro/cricket or a terrible prepaid plan on a big carrier, where the plans are cheap. If you want/need better service, ATT/VZW are your only two "real" options( Tmob/Sprint to a lesser extent), and you'd be losing money buying this type of device and not taking the subsidy.

Re:what is the point if my bill is the same?

[alen]

yep

the AT&T and VZW family plan prices are cheap enough that i don't have any inclination to mess with the prepaid MVNO carriers in the US. and even with those some like to limit which phones they will allow on their network

and with family data bundle pricing coming this summer i don't see the point of this so called freedom of not having a contract

Re:what is the point if my bill is the same?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are correct, the only carrier I know of that gives you a break for buying phones outright is T-Mobile under the "value plan". This shows how badly we need consumer protection laws that make phone contracts transparent, require the cost to drop off once the device is paid in full. Our 3 iPhones and 1 texting phone on T-Mo cost $122 a month for all 4 phones combined, taxes and fees included, but we did have to purchase each phone outright.

Re:what is the point if my bill is the same?

[Githaron]

Also, are these "nexus" devices going to be cdma/gsm/evdo/hsdpa+/LTE + 8 Band units? No? What is the benefit of buying one exactly? I still can't switch carriers at will, I would only be able to switch between gsm carriers (Att/tmob) OR cdma carriers(vzw/sprint), and either VZW or Sprint could easily say no to them.

Since I doubt we are going to get carriers to standardize on frequencies, has anyone thought about manufacturing the antenna and corresponding chipset into a compact module? The size, shape, bus, and chip to bus communication protocol could all be standardized. We could buy phones without being stuck to a specific wireless technology and carrier. If you want to move your phones to a carrier that does not support your phone's technology, you buy a new module, pop off the back over, pop out the old module, and pop in the new one just like a battery. Another advantage is that if carriers change their wireless technology (3G to 4G, 4G to 5G, etc.) you only need a new module instead of a whole new phone. Also, the modules could be put into other devices such as tablets, laptops, and any future tech.

Re:what is the point if my bill is the same?

[Coren22]

http://www.google.com/nexus/#/buy

Also, are these "nexus" devices going to be cdma/gsm/evdo/hsdpa+/LTE + 8 Band units?

Sort of, they sell two models, one designed for GSM (AT&T and Tmobile) and one designed for Sprint/Verizon. The Verizon one is $199 on contract, the GSM unlocked one is $399 without contract.

Re:Tried before and failed; see previous /. storie

[h4rr4r]

Now they have live support humans.

NEON, 3DNow, and SSE

[tepples]

As I understand it, missing NEON is the rough counterpart of missing SSE. AMD's Athlon CPUs support x86, but after Intel introduced SSE instructions in the Pentium III, the next couple versions of Athlon supported AMD's own competing 3DNow instructions instead of SSE.

Re:NEON, 3DNow, and SSE

[ArcherB]

As I understand it, missing NEON is the rough counterpart of missing SSE. AMD's Athlon CPUs support x86, but after Intel introduced SSE instructions in the Pentium III, the next couple versions of Athlon supported AMD's own competing 3DNow instructions instead of SSE.

True, but if I recall, applications still ran fine if SSE and/or 3DNow were not detected.

Re:NEON, 3DNow, and SSE

[Anonymous Coward]

If they were programmed to do CPU feature detection and had compatibility fallbacks, otherwise you got a crash when CPU met an unknown instruction or "Sorry, this application requires Pentium-III or newer".

I thought their plan was:

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

Rush mobile OS to market full of flaws in V1.
Marginalize their OS on thousands of cheap and crappy hardware models to gain market share
Confuse developers by releasing new versions several times a year, changing SDK dramatically between each version so apps are hard to develop and rarely work between updates.
Allow cellular carriers and manufactures to control updates so that no two people on the planet have the same OS version or update.
Sit back and reap in the money generated knowing there is a large market of people that hate Apple who will buy whatever else...

Yup, Google pretty much ripped this plan straight from Microsoft.

There was never any fragmentation on Android...

[Threni]

...and now, at last, it's going to be addressed!

Good move, if true

[neokushan]

I think the real reasoning behind this is that Manufacturers were probably getting somewhat disillusioned with Google's favouritism for the big Nexus device. It's not hard to see why, either - when HTC did the Nexus One, even though the N1 wasn't a huge success, HTC's other phones (particularly the HTC Desire, which is practically the same phone in a different design) garnered them record profits. When Samsung did the Nexus S, their next phone was the Galaxy S II - another runaway success.
No doubt getting a sneak peek at what's coming allows you to really plan ahead and hit the market with some leading devices. I'm sure LG, Motorola, ZTE and anyone else worth their salt would love a piece of that. Or at the very least, they'd love for Google to stop giving a major competitive advantage to one of their competitors.

Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[tepples]

the MAIN issue is the Carrier's WON'T give a discount on service if you buy your phone outright

They'll have to give such discounts if they want to compete with the $35 per month plan that Sprint's Virgin Mobile brand offers.

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[alen]

virgin has crappy phones and the current Nexus only supports GSM. CDMA versions are sold by the carriers

the MVNO carriers operate on the cheap. everyone knows how much data any given phone will eat up in a month which is why the MVNO carriers like to limit which phones they support. no one will allow an iphone/galaxy or any other high res screen phone on their MVNO network for $35 a month

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[Charliemopps]

The government should treat it like what it really is: A LOAN
The Cellular company is giving you the phone for free... but then making you pay for it via a service contract that is ridiculously expensive. It IS a loan, the government needs to treat it like one. The "Interest rate" should be regulated just like all other loans.

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[Bad Ad]

Sounds like an American problem. In the UK, you can get unlimited data and text with 250 minutes for £10

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[realityimpaired]

There's a difference between an MVNO and a Fight Brand... While I don't really have any experience with Virgin in the US, they are considered a fight brand here in Canada, because they're wholly owned/operated by Bell.

And honestly... you may call it a "crappy phone", because it's not a quad core 2GHz processor with 4GB of RAM, but the Samsung Galaxy Ace which I have from my carrier has no problem with anything I've thrown at it, despite only having 512MB of RAM and an 800MHz processor. Unless you're doing heavy gaming, you really don't need the latest and greatest, and if you *are* gaming, why not buy a DS or a PSP?

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[Dishevel]

It is a US problem and it sucks.
But....In the US I have my overpriced under performing phone that still works while walking down a street NOT blanketed in cameras.
Not sure which is worse.

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[scot4875]

But....In the US I have my overpriced under performing phone that still works while walking down a street NOT blanketed in cameras.

Something nags at me me about this statement. Can't quite put my finger on it, but ...it's almost as if those two issues are ... completely unrelated!

--Jeremy

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[Dishevel]

The point is everywhere sucks in some way.
In the US it is cell phones, individuals who claim to speak for entire races and the war on drugs.

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[Coren22]

Except, if you bring your own phone, the plan costs the same.

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[SolitaryMan]

Except you can't really bring your own phone.

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[Bitmanhome]

Virgin is Sprint's pay-as-you-go arm. Sprint doesn't need to discount; that what Virgin is for.

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[tepples]

Sprint's Virgin Mobile brand

Virgin is Sprint's pay-as-you-go arm

That's what I said. Let me clarify: Verizon and AT&T will have to give such discounts if they want to compete with Virgin.

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[Anonymous Coward]

Well that's what's wrong with the US. I can get 800 minutes, unlimited text and unlimited data for £20 a month ($30) with an unlocked phone in the UK.

Re:Smartphone service for $35/mo from Virgin

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when are interest rates regulated? Last I checked PayDay loans can have anual interest rates above a hundred percent.

Re:Tried before and failed; see previous /. storie

[Anonymous Coward]

I purchased the GSM Galaxy Nexus direct from Google Play last week Monday. It arrived on Wednesday. Due to a small contract dispute with Sprint, which they resolved with admirable customer service skills, I had to wait until Sunday to have it activated. I'm loving it so far, but admittedly am still in the honeymoon phase.

I went with T-Mobile's web special: 100 minutes talk, unlimited text/data (5gigs 4g speed) for $30/month. For comparison, Sprint wanted to charge me $200 less for the phone, but would not let me keep my plan and the cheapest available was $80/month. Two year contract. So in just five months it will have paid for itself, and I'm off contract and can take this phone anywhere I want on the AT&T and T-Mobile bands to whichever prepaid plan is best for me. Regardless if the phone holds up as well as my last one (Original HTC Touch 4+ years), it was a sound investment and I look forward to continued use.

TL;DR- Thank you Google for providing me with a great phone, at a reasonable price, that made it possible for me to avoid the butthurt that is "subsudized phones".

Android Updates are Broken

[MogNuts]

Let's hope that this fixes or mitigates the one flaw of android: no updates.

Let me precede with this: Android is the superior OS. iOS fanboys and others alike (i'll probably get modded down for this) will argue. But iOS is completely inferior to Android. But this is not to start a flamewar. The one thing where iOS kicks android's ass is updates and compatibility. And notice I said updates: iOS updates and security do not go hand in hand (withness the MYRIAD of exploits for iOS). But again not starting a flamewar here.

But Android gets no updates! Jesus christ. Just now, like 6 months later, are flagship models just a few months ago getting ICS. Make no mistake, if it was a dumbphone, who cares. But these are minuture computers. They need updates for security sake, if anything. Even though iOS isn't secure and has lots of exploits, at least they're patched in the next version. Android? Good luck. And the problem is that we keep more sensative data on our smartphone than our desktop.

Also is the compatibility. Close friend just got the official android phone, the galaxy nexus. And know what? Tetris, made by EA, didn't work a few times. And another app too, dropbox I believe. Not apps by little shit devs who don't have the resources to provide bugfixes. The fact that apps aren't compatible with the so-called official android flagship is pathetic.

I'm ranting because I want Android to fix this. It's a HUGE issue. And I can't vote with my feet because I'll never go back to the iPhone (had a 3GS). It's really like using a toy vs. a real OS*.

* example: iOS doesn't allow Firefox Mobile. Which is a godsend with its ability for add-ons like Adblock on a mobile phone. Or iOS doesn't have the ability to place files in a filesystem so that another application can use a file, like a movie or PDF I put on the phone.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[kthreadd]

I agree with you. That three year old 3GS you had, it still receives the latest iOS updates. Very few Android phones even gets half of that, if at all.

I think it's fair to say that iOS does less, but the things it do it tend to do better.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[stewbee]

I really think that your ire should be directed to who your cell phone manufacturer is and not with Google, per se.
http://theunderstatement.com/post/11982112928/android-orphans-visualizing-a-sad-history-of-support

And in a way, this makes sense. Companies don't make money on support. Once the product has shipped, they don't want to deal with it since they want to move on to the next "big" thing. This certainly makes Apple the odd ball here. Certainly, Motorola has a history of not providing too much support, but it appears that HTC at least makes a token effort to keep their stuff up to date.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[AmiMoJo]

That just isn't true in the terms you describe. My old Galaxy S still gets regular updates with feature improvements and any security fixes. Google actively maintains Gingerbread and Samsung actively supplies updates for what is a fairly old model now (Galaxy S 3 hits the shops later this month).

You are right about it taking a while for ICS to reach the GS2 and other high end phones from last year. That's the price you pay for the freedom to choose a handset and have a fairly open OS... You pays for money and takes your choice. If you must always be up to date then, like Apple phones for iOS, Google phones for Android are your only option.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[MrMickS]

I think you're mistaking use requirements with superiority. I don't want to start a flame war, or fan the flames, but technically both iOS and Android have similar capabilties. The examples you give are design choices to make things easier for ordinary people rather than measures of inferiority. This isn't an apology just an observation.

Consider the placing of files on a filesystem. The number of times I've had to help people find images, movies, other files, on their phone because they didn't know where it was. Was it on the internal memory, was it on a memory card. It shouldn't matter. They just want to look at the picture, not learn how the filesystem on their phone is organised. Its unnecessary detail. Its a design choice to make things easier to understand.

As a counter example; Text messaging on an HTC Android phone. The more messages you have on the phone the worse performance gets. You get a nice helpful display of the count of messages you have exchanged with a person but the way that these are managed and presented causes the phone to lock up once the message count gets high as it loads all the messages. On iOS this performance hit doesn't happen. You are only presented with a manageable number of the most recent messages. If you want to go further back you hit a button to load more messages. This is a design choice by both and in this case iOS is superior.

Superiority is a judgement call based on requirements. For your specific requirements Android is obviously a better fit, for others iOS is a better fit.

Consider why Google is so keen on making Android a success. Its nothing to do with battling the evil of Apple. Its nothing to do with fighting the OSS fight. Its nothing to do with making the data free. Its all about keeping Google relevant in the post-PC world and ensuring they are able to deliver GoogleAds to as many people as possible and thus maintain an income. This move by Google is to make sure that their partners stick with Android and don't go off and do their own thing.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[MogNuts]

I don't disagree with you on that one. The official google phone is the ONLY one to buy IMHO. Although even that isn't a panacea. My buddy has the Galaxy Nexus on verizon and it's only on 4.0.2, STILL. Wasn't that released aaaalll the way back in January? And that's the standard dev phone that is supposed to always give the current updates. There has been two updates since then!

Also, it would be nice for other handset makers to deliver updates. While I wouldn't touch it with a 10 ft pole because I hate Sense and HTC is atrocious with updates, the One X has great GPU and battery life. What if I wanted that? Can't have it because I know with any other manuf that I won't get 4.0.4 for another 6 months!

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[MogNuts]

Perfect solution for Google: be like MS.

Sell a vanilla OEM version for like $50 that be completely up to date and fresh with no bloatware. Distribute that money to carriers and manufacturers so they still get a cut so as not have them block/whine. Make it hidden so it doesn't affect all the so-called BS value added the carrier and manuf make. This way only those who really need it will get it.

MS does this. You can get Windows preinstalled with all the BS and bloatware. Or you can buy the official retail copy for $X.

Problem solved.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[AmiMoJo]

I'm amazed how people in the US seem to get screwed by carriers. In the UK you could get the Galaxy Nexus unlocked and unmolested free with a contract just by going via one of the many high street retailers who resell carrier plans. They are usually a bit cheaper than going direct to the carrier, as long as you say "no" to all the insurance offers.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[erroneus]

True. Google is more than aware of this problem. And you can point to the Carriers as the cause of this problem. The problem is the carriers insist on bloatware and in order to ensure that bloatware is installed, they control the releases of the updates. This bloatware, of course, takes a higher level of importance to all other things.

Another factor influencing the carriers' reluctance to issue updates is the leverage they exert against their customers to influence them to "upgrade" by buying new devices and extending their contract commitments.

That's why Google's plan is such a game-changer. And they can get away with it because users have grown to love their Android devices and will not settle for less any longer.

So once the Android devices are freed from the carriers' influence, the software updates will come as frequently as they have with the international/unlocked versions of devices.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[MogNuts]

Consider the placing of files on a filesystem. The number of times I've had to help people find images, movies, other files, on their phone because they didn't know where it was. Was it on the internal memory, was it on a memory card. It shouldn't matter. They just want to look at the picture, not learn how the filesystem on their phone is organised. Its unnecessary detail. Its a design choice to make things easier to understand.

You know I've thought about that. I guess you're right about not needed to know where a file was. But the problem is big when you need a .docx file and download it from your email and view it in say Dataviz office or whatever it's called. You can't. You have to set up a convoluted cloud sync or worse transfer it via iTunes (there was an article back on OSNews describing this. It was like 7 steps and using menus buried so deep I wouldn't even find it). Or media. You have a MP3 to play. Why can't I just put a MP3 on it? Ok, so I manage to get it on via dropbox. Why can't I just click on the mp3 and have itunes play it? No, dropbox actually had to develop its own media player to play it.

This whole thing was figured out decades ago. It was called a filesystem. It's the best and most efficient solution out there. Everything has its negatives. And also to your other good point, yes users don't care about learning. But I grow tired of that. Users should be forced to learn a few things. This isn't 1992. This is 2012. If you can't be bothered to learn how to save a file properly, get off the computer. That's like saying you're not responsible for learning how to put a car in gear or how to put gas in your car (NJ has an excuse because we've always had our gas pumped for us). Yes, some things really are required to learn how to operate. Not only that, but MS dumps everything into "My Documents" anyway. If a user can't find it there, don't help them. They're a lost cause--and worse, they don't want to learn and want you to do everything for them. They want you to be their computer servant.

Consider why Google is so keen on making Android a success. Its nothing to do with battling the evil of Apple. Its nothing to do with fighting the OSS fight. Its nothing to do with making the data free. Its all about keeping Google relevant in the post-PC world and ensuring they are able to deliver GoogleAds to as many people as possible and thus maintain an income. This move by Google is to make sure that their partners stick with Android and don't go off and do their own thing.

Again, you are right. However, Google has a responsibility to make sure security is at least up to date. Millions of phones vulnerable to malware is their responsibility. People put more personal stuff on their phones than anything. Even MS with Windows has taken this cause to heart over the course of the decade. And it should be their responsibility anything because once the mainstream gets wind that "Android gets viruses" they will happily flock to Apple (who no doubt will brag that they don't even though its not true).

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[MogNuts]

We get so screwed. Thing is, they offer it so low that for the price of an un-subbed phone, you can buy one now, and buy another in two years. But then we don't get the updates or support. And they don't give a discount (short of t-mobile IIRC) if you buy your own phone outright, so why shell out the full price?

Now google gave you the option recently (it was done a while back but they pulled it) to buy it directly from them. However, I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) it will only work for t-mo or att. Not verizon or sprint. So if we like a carrier, we may not even have the option.

How do updates work for you? Is it as simple as going to system and checking for updates? And do they download directly from Google and stay reasonably up to date? Or do you actually have download a ROM from google and actually connect it to your PC and transfer it?

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[wfolta]

Users should be forced to learn a few things. This isn't 1992. This is 2012. If you can't be bothered to learn how to save a file properly, get off the computer.

I think you have your dates backwards. The whole point is that in 1992, you HAD to learn how to save files and all of the quirky differences between a hard drive and a floppy disk, and the characters you are and are not allowed to use in a filename, and so on. In 2012, people want to just use their device without worrying that there is a filesystem underneath. (Make no mistake, iOS has a full-blown filesystem under the hood.) Not to mention the security concerns involved in letting any app access any file it wants. That was DOS in 1992, not a modern, secure OS.

You might also note that iOS has an Open With... system that lets you open files with other apps. I just tapped on a PDF in Dropbox and got offered to open it in iBooks, GoodReader, Kindle, SUndry Notes, and Box. I tapped on a movie in GoodReader and it offered to open it in VLC, Dropbox, and Box, too.

Your phone is a phone, not a desktop computer, and that's the way the vast majority of phone users want it.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[MogNuts]

I think you have your dates backwards. The whole point is that in 1992, you HAD to learn how to save files and all of the quirky differences between a hard drive and a floppy disk, and the characters you are and are not allowed to use in a filename, and so on. In 2012, people want to just use their device without worrying that there is a filesystem underneath. (Make no mistake, iOS has a full-blown filesystem under the hood.) Not to mention the security concerns involved in letting any app access any file it wants. That was DOS in 1992, not a modern, secure OS.

A few rebuttals. It doesn't matter what year it is, 2012 or not, people always want to not learn something or not do something. People are lazy most of the time. Do you honestly think this statement is sane: "in 2012, people don't want to deal with password protecting their router. they just want to leave it open for anyone to use." Yea, they're lazy, don't want to learn (notice this common theme I'm getting at) and take 1 basic safety precaution (again, common theme: learn a few simple things that they refuse to do). As a result, lots of dangerous things happen.

As for the rest, yes iOS has a full blown filesystem. But they're actively *preventing* us from using it. So does iOS have a FS? No. Next as for not letting any app have access. That I agree with you in theory. I forgot about that. But in reality, it just hampers us and gets in the way with no benefit. And did you forget the fact that (and yet again it comes to light) there was a simple solution in the desktop world? It's called "not blindly clicking on an application unless you know its safe." And didn't /. just post a few articles about iOS so called sandboxing permissions appl must use now, and how they're effectively worthless security-wise? Let's put this succintly: security is a process, not a one-off solution. Malicious people will always find a circumvention. Malicious people probably are finding it too easy using the same browser method that jailbreaks a device to get root on your iDevice and it's so easy they're not bothering to rely on email phishing because all it takes is a simple malicious ad injection on web page. Also, see 5.1.1 bugfixes regarding the ability to spoof the URL and say it's the actual web page.

You might also note that iOS has an Open With... system that lets you open files with other apps. I just tapped on a PDF in Dropbox and got offered to open it in iBooks, GoodReader, Kindle, SUndry Notes, and Box. I tapped on a movie in GoodReader and it offered to open it in VLC, Dropbox, and Box, too.

No "Open With" is not available, period.
PDF's are the exception because iOS has that built-in for programs to use. For anything else, doesn't exist. Maybe IIRC the only other exception is for H264 files, and ONLY H264 files from DropBox.

Your phone is a phone, not a desktop computer, and that's the way the vast majority of phone users want it.

No, it's a smartphone, a portable computer. And this is common knowledge now: calling is one of the last features people use on a smartphone.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[thegarbz]

Wow Google releases an update and you're upset at them because a third party vendor was too retarded to write portable code? And you seem to be somewhat defending EA too, man your karma dodged a bullet today.

Guess what, it's entirely EA's fault. There's no reason a game should not work on ICS if it worked on Gingerbread. Although I did have one game that didn't work when I updated my phone to an early Beta of a hack of ICS that some dude patched together a week after ICS was released. Do you also blame Microsoft when they dropped 16bit support in Windows Vista (THOSE BASTARDS HOW DARE THEY!!!) and your *insert shitty game which vendor didn't update despite advanced warning and early access to the API* stopped working?

I mean some of the apps on my phone rely on some really nasty hacks to access the hardware, require root also, yet none of them stopped working when I upgraded my phone to ICS.

The other classic one I see is some deadbeat programmer specifically excluding apps which work perfectly fine from a version of android for no reason. ICS came out and one of the apps I use to manage shopping lists and search for items at the store wasn't listed in the market. It was supposedly "incompatible". It took them 6 months to change this. During those 6 months I used it just fine after copying it from a phone that still had Gingerbread on it. This isn't Android's fault either.

Oh by the way, what security updates? You're need to find some security holes before you'll find security updates.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[AmiMoJo]

Consider the placing of files on a filesystem. The number of times I've had to help people find images, movies, other files, on their phone because they didn't know where it was. Was it on the internal memory, was it on a memory card. It shouldn't matter. They just want to look at the picture, not learn how the filesystem on their phone is organised. Its unnecessary detail. Its a design choice to make things easier to understand.

Which is why Android offers you both raw filesystem access and MTP for ease of use, and additionally many manufacturers supply their own easy sync apps for people who like that kind of thing.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[MogNuts]

Haha. The irony after I posted that is not lost on me. Tetris is made by Ea. Your post made me chuckle. But you're right, it is EA's fault. And dropbox's.

Though to be pedantic and address your other point, MS depracating 16 bit support is a little harsh. 16-bit binaries weren't in use for 10 years, 8 if you want to be conservative. I can't stand how people knock MS for not supporting shit when Apple drops their shit they made last year or two. But anyway.

I agree with you on shitty app makers. I posed on this last week I think. Everything except for certain things that absolutely require it should be platform agnostic HTML5 apps. It's the future.

And as much as I hate to admit it, Android does have holes. Example, once just came out then hijacks the browser and installs malicious software that also runs in the browser, even when the web browser isn't in the foreground and you're viewing it. So we do need security updates. This shit was stopped in ICS, but short of 2 phones on the major 4 networks are still on like 2.3.0! :-( Now this is not to say that iOS doesnt have exploits. They actually have a lot lately and that's pretty pathetic considering they control both the software AND hardware, AND they only have 3 phones to support. So they get no pass from me. In fact, they're terrible considering how easy it should be. Then again, Apple computers were never secure. It's just that stupid fanboys stuck their fingers in their ears and went "la-la-la can't hear u" so much that the meme actually stuck.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[Rich0]

The official google phone is the ONLY one to buy IMHO.

You sure about that?

The 3.5 year old old official phone (ADP) only received major OS updates for about a year (Donut).

The two year old official phone (Nexus One) only received major OS updates for about a year (Gingerbread came out less than a year after its release, and that is all it runs).

The 1.5 year old official phone (Nexus S) is just only getting Ice Cream Sandwich now - so you could say that it had updates for 1.5 years after its release date, though only to a version that was released less than a year after it came out (so you could argue it is a 1 year update six months late).

Google has yet to roll out any update to one of its phones that was developed more than a year after the phone was FIRST sold. Anybody who bought the phone just before it was discontinued might have gotten an update at most a month or two later, if they got any updates at all.

So, if you buy a non-Nexus phone you'll be lucky to get any updates at all (it is hit and miss), and if you buy a Nexus phone you may get a single update, if you buy it pretty early. I love Android, but none of their devices really support upgrades much at all.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[MogNuts]

Didn't know that. Makes my original point even more valid. Yet, I'm not happy about it. Just makes it more depressing. :-(

Are jailbroken community builds putting on (and being successful) ICS on the Nexus One or S? Not that I'd use one anyway--even though it's not a panacea, not running as root is still good protection.

It just dawned on me. It's funny, but even Linux with massive fragmentation like Android, manages to get updates and decent compatibility. Then again, the myriad of flavors of ARM don't help. Linux, for the most part, is either x86 32 or 64-bit and that's it (for mainstream purposes anyway).

I really hope that Ubuntu manages to get itself on smartphones. That would be heaven. Upgrades and the freedom to run anything. That's what I've wanted since the beginning anyway, before all this walled garden scaled down App shit. I think that's what most /.'ers wanted too--just I think they forgot.

Re:Android Updates are Broken

[Rich0]

Haven't really followed the One or S, since I don't own them. The issue is that not many of the modders actually use them now - they tend to get so many donations that they run the latest and greatest, and so they don't support the older phones the way they used to.

Back when everybody running Android had an ADP or G1 (identical hardware) 3rd-party updates were very well supported, since that's what EVERYBODY used. However, once the newer phones started coming out, and once donations to the bigger mods ramped up, the leading devs tended to move on and buy new phones all the time.

Don't get me wrong - I'm grateful for their efforts and I get a lot more than I pay for (nothing). However, fragmentation has not really helped the driver hacking scene much - to few devs working on too many phones to really keep most of them up-to-date.

CyanogenMod

[tepples]

Maybe it's time to fork Android into LibreAndroid.

That time was years ago, and the fork is called CyanogenMod.

Apple, meet PC Clone...

[retroworks]

Oh, you've already met? This is how Microsoft and PCs beat Apple in the 90s... Taipei was Jobs' Waterloo

Re:Apple, meet PC Clone...

[Anonymous Coward]

And of all the PC manufacturers in the world at the time in the 90's, only Dell and HP are still in business while Apple is the valuable tech company in the world.

This whole move by google is an attemp to stop Samsung from running every android manufacturer out of business.

Re:Apple, meet PC Clone...

[erroneus]

Apple is no longer a "computer company" and they certainly do not compete with Dell or HP. They do NOT operate in the same market. If you think they do then you're not paying attention.

Apple does not sell to or support "the enterprise" (or any of the other star trek ships for that matter). They sell gadgets for consumers and support them in a way which is appropriate for consumers. The most you can buy is "front of the line privileges" at an apple store to talk to a "genius." There is no next day on-site service let alone 4-hour service. Countless businesses have tried and failed to use Apple in the enterprise and it always seems to fail on the service and support side.

And what has made Apple so big and powerful? IPhone, IPod and IPad. There has been no "explosive growth" or interest in Apple computers. So, don't try to consider Dell and Apple to be competitors. Ford and Ferrari are closer competitors than Apple and Dell.

Trying to keep Samsung from destroying the other Android makers? Interesting... perhaps more likely. But now that you mention, I think I better understand your HP/Dell reference. It's not so much that Dell and HP trounced Apple in the PC market, it's that Apple, with its own little market was left alone while the commodity PC competition killed each other off. In that sense, you're probably on the mark. But, Android devices and Apple devices *are* competitors and it will be extremely difficult for Apple to section itself a corner of the mobile device market the way it did for PCs.

Re:Apple, meet PC Clone...

[retroworks]

The PC manufacturers not in business??? PC Clone makers Wistron (which spun off Acer), Foxconn (which makes .. for just everybody), BenQ etc. were grew based on the open source contracting model offered by Microsoft and IBM. Like Apple, Foxconn is no longer a PC company, if that's what you mean by out of the PC business. By opening the Android OS to tinkering, Google is doing what the PC market did - unleash Foxconn etc. Anonymous is right on one thing - Samsung is the giant in the ring, and the same move frees Wistron, BenQ, Foxconn to compete better against Samsung.

Initial outlay for a home PC

[tepples]

Consumers are used to paying next to no initial outlay for a handset on the understanding that it will be paid for through their carrier agreement

Why aren't home users used to paying next to no initial outlay for a home PC on the understanding that it will be paid for through their ISP agreement?

Re:Initial outlay for a home PC

[thegarbz]

The tablet market is alluding to exactly what you describe. Here at least they are sold in the same way as phone contracts, with the phone company effectively being your ISP.

Re:Initial outlay for a home PC

[Theophany]

Uh, have you been to PC World lately? They've been flogging craptops with that model for fucking years, dude. That was why demand in the market for 3G in the UK exploded.

End users not living in a Major City

[tepples]

Nor do I see any Apple Retail Stores in Fort Wayne, Indiana. The closest thing in town is an independent Apple Authorized Retailer that sells Macs, and the closest Apple Retail Store is a hundred miles away. So to reach end users not living in a Major City(tm), Google and Apple are on the same playing field, having to sell their wares through electronics chains and independent mobile phone retailers.

Re:End users not living in a Major City

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, your closest store is 70 miles away in Mishawaka, IN. Apple's store does have online chat and phone support, though, so it's more than just a random forum.

Re:End users not living in a Major City

[tepples]

Google Maps told me Mishawaka was 90 miles away. But it's still the difference between a cheap city bus and a far more expensive, far less often running Greyhound (or similar) bus.

Re:End users not living in a Major City

[Anonymous Coward]

You might be over estimating how many people live outside of cities (hint, percentage wise most customers of just about anything live in or near cities)

Re:End users not living in a Major City

[ceoyoyo]

So what you're saying is, if you want to get your iPhone fixed you can go to an authorized repair shop right in your own small city? And if you want to get your Google phone fixed? Oh right, Google doesn't have any stores of their own OR authorized shops.

I used to have to go 100 miles to get a doughnut.

Competing with Never Been Laid Mobile

[tepples]

I think T-Mobile did offer a break on a bring your own plan at one point, but none of the other carriers offer any discount for not using the subsidy.

To compete with Virgin Mobile's $35/mo Beyond Talk plan, more carriers have been offering discounts on month-to-month service where the phone is purchased up front.

What about GPL?

[aaaaaaargh!]

I thought much of the Android code is GPL'ed. If they distribute early versions of Android to selected developers, wouldn't they also need to give away the Android source code to anyone else who demands it at that time?

Re:What about GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

No. My understanding of the GPL is that you have to provide the code to end users/customers only. If they are only giving the binaries to the handset manufacturers, then they only have to give the code to the handset manufacturers. Once a handset using this code is actually released to the public, only then do they have to provide said code to the public. Just like if I download some GPL code, make changes, and then only use it on my machine. I never have to give anyone else the code, since I'm the only one using it. If I then put binaries of that up for others to take, THEN I would have to share the code.

Re:What about GPL?

[renrutal]

Android does distribute the GPL portion early, they don't do that for the non-GPL real Android stuff.

Re:What about GPL?

[limaxray]

It's not, it's Apache. Plus, even if you release your code under a GPL, you are under no obligation to only release future version under the same license. Heck, you can release the same version under different licenses if you wanted, ala Qt. If you own the code, you dictate the license, not the other way around.

Now, they would need to release some GPL'd code that's not theirs, namely the Linux kernel and some utilities, but the bulk of it can be closed forever.

Re:What about GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

Kernel is GPL'd, much of the rest of Android is Apache licensed.

Re:What about GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

Google's modifications to the GPL'd part of the Android code are often available far before any devices, anyway (http://source.android.com/).

I don't know the exact wording of the GPL, but most device makers don't put out source until several weeks after they release the device anyway.

Re:What about GPL?

[Dr.Dubious DDQ]

Sadly, no - the only thing that's really GPL is the kernel itself. Google has stripped out all of the other "copyleft" (i.e. "share-alike") licensed components that you'd get with a more standard Linux environment and replaced them with stripped-down BSD/Apache dismissively-licensed ("Hey, I'm taking your work and messing with it and squeezing money out of people with it, but not sharing the changes or letting people interoperate, okay?" "Meh, whatever.")* components.

I've noticed that rooted phones often end up swapping GPL components back in, most notably busybox.

* Google doesn't actually approach things this way - they do eventually share their changes for people to experiment freely. They don't HAVE to, though, nor does any third-party corporation who might want to take and use the code. Fortunately an incompatible fork like that which would result is prevented from calling itself "Android" due to trademark restrictions, at least.

Re:What about GPL?

[Rich0]

I thought much of the Android code is GPL'ed. If they distribute early versions of Android to selected developers, wouldn't they also need to give away the Android source code to anyone else who demands it at that time?

No, you only have to offer the source to the GPL components, and only to those you offer the binaries to. You can't stop them from redistributing it, but they likely have various incentives not to anyway (if they got in on some special deal that gives them a leg up, why would they go and give away their advantage?). For non-GPL components there is no obligation to give anything away.

Catching up

[BerneAI]

and this is the way it has worked in Asia for quite some time. With devices sold from the start as unlocked the carriers are forced to compete for the business without the incentive of selling the devices...they actually have to provide/compete with each other and become price competitive...it's funny because all the money ATT and Verizon dump into the Tea Party, they may actually be forced to compete in an open market. Something that in the end scares them s less. they could be forced to act like real businesses. Wow what a concept.

PeoplePC

[tepples]

I know next to nothing about the wired home Internet market in Great Britain, but I haven't heard about that model lately in the USA. The last time I heard about ISP-subsidized PCs, it was over a decade ago and called PeoplePC.

Re:PeoplePC

[Theophany]

The Atlantic would explain that then! Yeah, the ISP subsidised PC market has been around in the UK for quite a while now (I remember it really coming to prominence ~2007) and has remained since then. As thegarbz mentioned, this is now shifting from the low-end laptop market to the tablet market (although they seem to coexist at present), so you can walk into most wireless stores and walk out with a carrier-subsidised tablet now and a 24-month plan in your name.

That's our Google

[Swampash]

Always fighting the last war.

Google to sell direct? That's a fail

[Snaller]

They've tried that before. And for most of us who access their shop we are told we can't buy, because we don't live in the right place. They don't have the money, or the brains, to do it all over - and then they fail

Like Apple?

[MrJones]

Wait! Google doing another "Apple move"? Unbelievable!
P.D.: sorry to start a fan war post :)

World Domination

[awweaver]

Their grand plan? You mean World Domination /meniacallaugh?

Jobs turning in his grave

[erroneus]

Yeah, if Jobs was upset by Google Android and all the Samsung devices, now that Google is unleashing "too many manufacturers to sue" upon the world, I can only imagine how this will pan out.

But more than that, Google is helping the consumer by releasing us from the carriers! It's my wildest dream come true. When the Galaxy S3 comes out, I was planning to buy the international version outright and not get locked into any contracts and expensive data plans which "pay for my subsidized phone" like 3 or 4 times over.

I'm tired of the carrier games in the US and I crave the kind of freedom they apparently enjoy in Europe. Google is changing the game and I can't imagine the carriers will be very accepting of it... but they have to in a way... they just don't have to give people 4G. But frankly, I don't need it most of the time... I have WiFi in most places I need. So "screw you!" carriers! I don't need a "$600 phone discounted to $300." I'll get a $400 device outright.

Also, anyone else notice the carriers offering insurance for these expensive hand-helds which only offer "refurbs"? Yeah... go with a home-owners or renters insurance policy and get your phone added onto that... they'll PAY the claim and you can get whatever you want... NEW. Also, insurers don't care if I root my phone! So once again, screw you carriers.

With ALL this happiness I am expressing, I have to say I still don't trust Google any further than I would trust any advertising/marketing company. My devices will be rooted and cleansed. So Google is enabling great things for me and "the consumer" and I celebrate it... but Google is still Google.

Re:Tried before and failed; see previous /. storie

[kidgenius]

True, but they were also selling the phone for $599. IF (BIG IF), they can sell the device for $399, then they probably can get more takers.

Own vs Loan

[rsmith84]

Someone made a good point up above that the agreement between you and the cellular provider is like a loan, considering that MOST cell phone users will sign a 2 year contract to get their grubby little hands on the latest iPhone or Android device strictly to avoid shelling out hundreds of dollars. But... and this may be stupid, radical, or just not feasible... Providers offer a full unlock of the phone if you buy the device out right thus exempting you from overpriced contracts and giving you the freedom to take your phone wherever you want. This is probably in the same wishful thinking vein of me believing that all devices, whether they be targeted for a CDMA or GSM network, be equipped with a SIM card to allow for this inter-network mobility.

"My old phone is just fine"

[Picass0]

Downside: Once you sell people a phone and they see the whole price they might be more inclined to own it longer. With cell providers currently offering upgrades and freebees to customers most people have a new phone in their hands ever two or three years. If people outright buy an Android they might decide to keep that phone for five or six years. That could lead to a level of stagnation.

Upside: Thrifty consumers will pick up on this if Google really commits. It could be a game changer for the US cell market and bring about a much needed round of competitive (hopefully somewhat fair) plan pricing.

Re:"My old phone is just fine"

[Githaron]

That could lead to a level of stagnation.

Probably not. There is a market for both low-end and high-end devices. Look at normal computers. There are those that rarely buy a new computer. There are also those that will not go more than a year or two without buying a new one. Within those groups, there are those that buy both high-end and low-end computers. As the manufacturing processes get more refined, the technologies originally created for high-end computers will eventually make it into the low-end computers and new technologies will be created for the high-end market. What it would lead to is a wider price gap between high and low end devices and less consistency on the hardware used in new devices since they will be catering to the various markets. You will just have to start paying attention to system requirements on resource hungry software if you buy a low-end device.

You mean I can get my hands on even MORE...

[Anonymous Coward]

... buggy, spastic versions of Android! Huzzah!

City != major city

[tepples]

You might be over estimating how many people live outside of cities

And you might be missing a distinction that I implied. Fort Wayne is a city (population 200,000) but not a major city (for example: no major league sports teams).

Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine if everyone bought their phone outright. Updating the OS is suddenly a much simpler task, and hopefully every phone would run the latest OS for at least a couple years. The fact that only a tiny percentage of Android phones run the latest OS is a travesty, brought on by the carriers greed in controlling the handsets.

The hard part is convincing everyone to not walk into their carrier to get a new phone. I don't think they could solve this problem quickly, but perhaps spending millions educating consumers on what a terrible idea it is would cause a slow change.

IOS vs Android.. Does it Matter?

[nanogarden]

I find it fascinating that with all the money and "smart" people who work on making products for consumers, that we all, consumers and manufacturers miss the point. Google states clearly that ALL of its creations are in BETA.... That is something that APPLE has vowed never to do. All of the works, programs, tools, websites, etc are all works in progress. I like Apple products, they work, look good and have a great track record. However I bought an Android phone from Boost mobile. Why? For one simple reason... I like not paying too much for anything. I'm frugal when it comes to buying technology or services that work with technology. Again Why? Simple put I work with Technology and I have many business's that rely on me to make sure that where they spend their hard earned dollars doesn't go up in smoke, or leave them wondering why I'm wasting my time with this gadget thingy that cost so god damn much. I like the android platform, I like that I as a regular person can write apps for it without special hardware {Macs} and that there is more platforms than colors in the rainbow to choose from, unlike apple you get one flavor, IOS. If you don't like it, or have issue with lack of updates, then quit your crying and get an IOS device, otherwise do something about it yourself. Get a device that has a community to update the damn thing, Hack it yourself, campaign the vendor, I don't give a crap. Its yours to do with as you please, unless you want someone else to "fix" it and give you more reason to complain that someone else isn't doing their job. I am gonna use till its working or not. And all the while I am gonna find out how to make this puppy do tricks even the makers had no idea it could do that.

This would not be necessary...

[Anonymous Coward]

...if the Android team had an open development model like every other OSS project out there. Not gonna happen as long as Andy "Hypocrite" Rubin runs the show, though.

--

Sundar Pichai is the utter asshole whose incompetence has resulted in the shutdown of Google's Atlanta office. Great work you moron!

mod parent down, BS prices

[Anonymous Coward]

tmobile charges $49.99 for the 5GB plan (please, stop saying unlimited)

and that's for hotspot devices (they will block voice on that connection).

for voice+data, which most phones will need,
the cheaper one is 500 minutes for $39.99

and then an extra $35 for the 5Gb plan.

for a grand total of $74.00 per month.

android plan

[Anonymous Coward]

Converge chomeos and android
Converge google TV's OS to pure android
Run Android Apps in Chrome
Port to x86
Make it WORA : Any non-NDK Android App can run across GTV, chrome, chromebooks, phones, and tablets -- x86 or arm.

Re:Tried before and failed; see previous /. storie

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine that, learning from your mistakes and trying again. What a concept!

Re:Tried before and failed; see previous /. storie

[Archangel Michael]

Here's the problem with buying your phone outright ... you don't get the discount from the big Carriers for having brought your own phone. So you end up paying subsidized rates for unsubsidized phones. Sure you're locked into a two year contract, but since I've been with my carrier for 6 years, and I'm not switching unless someone else is paying the bills, two year contract is no big deal.

So, my choices are let my contract expire and go month to month paying $65-$70 month (grandfathered plan) for unlimited data and 480 Talk Minutes ... and keep my phone ... until it breaks. OR Renew my contract, pay $100-$200 for a phone that is $500-$600 retail, and pay the same amount every month. OR buy a new phone for $500-$600 and go to month to month (still paying the $65-70/mo) .... with a phone I can't use on another carrier.

It isn't rocket science to realize that if I'm paying the $65-$70/mo no matter what I do, I might as well get the new phone when it comes out. AND I usually end up selling my old phone on Craigslist to someone that can't afford or doesn't qualify for contract cell service.

What the rest of the world doesn't know about the US, is that the big three don't have compatible frequencies so ... your phone is locked to them anyway. The smaller services are just using the towers of the other three.

Re:Tried before and failed; see previous /. storie

[tepples]

Imagine that, learning from your mistakes and trying again. What a concept!

Which would ideally lead to discussion of answers to the question "what has El Goog learned?"

Re:Tried before and failed; see previous /. storie

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that the neither TMobile nor the Galaxy Nexus do 4G. They do 3.5G (HSPA+).

mod parent down, BS complaint

[shutdown -p now]

GP is describing the so-called "Walmart prepaid plan", which is indeed the T-Mobile plan that costs $30 and offers 100 minutes talk and unlimited text/data. You'd find out if you bothered to Google before crying "mod parent down".

And yes, it is really unlimited. They throttle you down to 2G speeds after 5Gb, but you can still download stuff 24/7 at that reduced speed.

Re:Tried before and failed; see previous /. storie

[shutdown -p now]

No network in US offers true 4G. Nonetheless, that's what the operators call their fancy stuff, and that's what most users call it as well.

From MVNO to fighter brand

[tepples]

While I don't really have any experience with Virgin in the US, they are considered a fight brand here in Canada, because they're wholly owned/operated by Bell.

Likewise in the United States. Sprint bought Virgin Mobile USA, which had been an MVNO on Sprint's CDMA2000 network, and began to operate it as a fighter brand.

Sturgeon's revelation

[tepples]

and if you *are* gaming, why not buy a DS or a PSP?

Because of Nintendo's and Sony's stances against indie development that date back to paranoia about having another crash like that of 1983 on their platforms. In order to get a game onto a Nintendo or Sony platform, developers first have to move to Austin, Boston, or Seattle* to work and "pay their dues" to the established video game industry before starting their own company. I see where Nintendo and Sony are coming from, given Theodore Sturgeon's revelation about 90 percent of everything being crud, but it's still a genetic fallacy and a bootstrap problem.

* Or a city in another country that plays a similar role in that country's video game industry.

LTE == 4G Lite

[tepples]

No network in US offers true 4G. Nonetheless, that's what the operators call their fancy stuff

Verizon and AT&T are almost truthful in that they advertise their pre-4G service as "4G Lite", even though they leave out the 'i' for some inexplicable reason. Do they leave out the 'i' because of an Apple trademark?

Finding on whom to put the blame

[tepples]

Android as a consumer product is unfortunately usually restricted due to carriers and device manufacturers customising the OS

In the United States market, PeoplePC tried subsidizing PCs about a decade ago until the dot-com crash. But since then, wired carriers (cable, DSL, and fiber) don't subsidize PCs or Wi-Fi-only tablets. So what carrier baggage do Wi-Fi-only tablets carry? This leaves only device manufacturers and Google. Until the Honeycomb era, Google was entirely unsupportive of Wi-Fi-only Android devices, and it took three years after Apple's introduction of the second-generation iPod touch for a Google-blessed comparable pocket tablet (Samsung Galaxy Player) to come out.