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Apple Tells Siri To Stop Recommending Nokia

judgecorp writes "Apple has changed the answer Siri gives to the question 'What is the best smartphone ever?' to prevent the voice-driven assistant from promoting the Nokia Lumia 900. Originally Siri trawled online reviews on the web, using the Wolfram Alpha search engine, to come up with the Lumia, much to Apple's embarrassment. Now, Apple has intervened, replacing that answer with a joke: 'Wait there are other phones?'"

47 of 337 comments (clear)

  1. Not just Apple by crazyjj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do a search on Google for "What is the best web browser" and guess what, you'll get a nice list of reviews, every single one of which lists Google Chrome as the best web browser. Oddly enough, if you do the same search in Bing, you get a few results that don't seem to show up near the top of the Google search.

    Basically, never look for objective information from someone who has their own horse in the race. I would no more trust Apple with advice on computer or smartphone purchasing advice than I would trust Norton with advice on the best anti-virus software.

    --
    What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    1. Re:Not just Apple by smg5266 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I searched "best web browser" on Google and the second result was mozilla.org

    2. Re:Not just Apple by buchner.johannes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The term is "search engine Filter Bubble" -- see the nice introduction at http://dontbubble.us/ (admittedly focussed on avoiding personalisation).
      If you use a meta search engine that doesn't collect personal information, such as DuckDuckGo.com, you can escape that problem.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    3. Re:Not just Apple by DanTheStone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I get this one, which has Chrome and Firefox tied, on my first page of Google results. It doesn't look like Google is deliberately and directly biasing those search results like Apple.

    4. Re:Not just Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Interesting. Second result for me is Opera, and I'm a Chrome user.

    5. Re:Not just Apple by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why in the world would you google "What is the best web browser"?

      Stupid shit like that is what is breaking google today, and why it is so much less useful than it used to be. You can't even get the damn thing to include what it considers punctuation anymore.

      Googling "Web Browser Best", without quotes, gets you a first page of all review articles on that topic as you would expect, only the last link points to chrome.

    6. Re:Not just Apple by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just did the same, Mozilla is the second spot. Spot #5 says "You really can't go wrong with any Web browser choice these days. Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer, Opera, and Safari, all are fast, standards ..."

      The thing is, if Google gives you bogus results they're going to lose your eyeballs; that's one of many things that makes Google superior to Bing. Bad search results hurt their bottom line, while Siri's answers aren't going to stop anybody from buying another iPhone.

    7. Re:Not just Apple by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It does, this is why I tend to be able to find stuff others cannot.

      Use tools correctly and they work better.

    8. Re:Not just Apple by Sir_Sri · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not yet anyway. If someone else comes out with a better equivalent to Siri, or Siri starts producing terrible results that aren't for gimmicky questions people will drop it like a rock.

      Imagine if you could inject ads directly into Siri for example, queries would give preferential results based on the location you queried from and common terms were bid for (say optometrist, and the highest bidding optometrist within 10Km would get their result) that could, in the long run, seriously undermine the credibility of a project like Siri. Right now it's experimental, it can fail humourously and no one gets to fussed about it. But if there are competitors on the market, that could be a problem.

    9. Re:Not just Apple by cpu6502 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      (shrug). Google and Bing always come-up with different results.

      What concerns me more is that Apple deliberately made Siri less-useful to the owner. What happens if you ask, "What is the best computer?" Or "What is the best MP3 player?" Or "What is the best tablet for reading books?" Now I have to wonder if Apple will censor those answers too. I buy a computer, or laptop, or phone, to help ME out with attaining knowledge not to serve the corporate master who built the computer/laptop/phone.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    10. Re:Not just Apple by madhi19 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Plus if Google were to game the search this way they get into anti-trust and anti-competition territory while we all know Apple can do no wrong.

    11. Re:Not just Apple by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What concerns me more is that Apple deliberately made Siri less-useful to the owner.

      This is one of the situations where Apple really ought to be taking a page from Google. The problem in this case is that Siri is returning a nonsense answer as a result of Microsoft's astroturfing and marketing attempts to try to make Nokia not feel as lonely at the bottom of the market share charts.

      The "right" way to fix that is to make your search algorithm less susceptible to slashvertizements and spam reviews. The stupid way is to change the single result someone pointed out to you and let the device continue telling people that snake oil cures cancer and plants crave Brawndo.

    12. Re:Not just Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      laptop, or phone, to help ME out with attaining knowledge not to serve the corporate master who built the computer/laptop/phone.

      Then you shouldn't be buying Apple. It's well known their platform is all about lockdown and tying you into their ecosystem.

      If you want an open platform, buy an open platform. Apple is not that. Hasn't been for decades.

    13. Re:Not just Apple by Applekid · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not yet anyway. If someone else comes out with a better equivalent to Siri, or Siri starts producing terrible results that aren't for gimmicky questions people will drop it like a rock.

      Nope, because Apple would simply disallow any app from their market from competing with Siri (just like alternate web browsers, alternate stores, etc). iPhone users can't run what they want without talented hackers.

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    14. Re:Not just Apple by jythie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pity I am out of mod points.

      People seem obsessed with the idea that all products within a market should meet THEIR needs, and get rather pissy when something is both popular and not geared towards them. If Apple meets ones needs, by Apple. If Android does a better job, buy Android, rinse lather repeat.

    15. Re:Not just Apple by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I hate siri 1.0 because it removed the standard apple voice control that was in the 3GS and 4.0 that works when you dont have a internet connection. siri does not work when you have no net connection. so voice dialing or voice control of the music fails when out of service range.

      another epic failure of cloud crap.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    16. Re:Not just Apple by Kalriath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So it's not possible that there are reviewers that actually like the phone? It's just Microsoft astroturfing? Yeah, right. God you people are so narcissistic.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    17. Re:Not just Apple by AvitarX · · Score: 3, Informative

      Google isn't consistent. Their servers don't perfectly sync and are always crawling. They talked about it in an interview here years ago I think.

      Many large sites with non-critical data work this way (and the nitty gritty exact search order for any given second/minute/hour/day is non-critical).

      Facebook does something similar with post visibility (it's not necessarily instant everywhere), and I've had friends call in panic when a mutual friend's memorialized account dropped off the internet for up to a day as it transitioned (some could see it, some couldn't, and it would go back and forth for some people).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    18. Re:Not just Apple by tqk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Siri seems to do a good job of it. The article isn't about someone asking her ...

      WTF is with you people all anthromorphizing a web search engine?!? Are you hoping to ask it out for a date someday?

      Holy drank the koolaid, Batman!

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    19. Re:Not just Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      That is false. You can turn off Siri in the settings and go back to the old voice control from ios 4.x

  2. Headline should read by AshFan · · Score: 4, Funny

    Apple successfully changes womans opinion.

    1. Re:Headline should read by Barbara,+not+Barbie · · Score: 4, Funny

      Apple successfully changes womans opinion.

      Video or it never happened!

      FYI, Siri is not a woman, no matter how much you may want to imagine otherwise when you ask it "Who's the sexiest man in the world?" and it answers, "Wait, there are other men?"

      --
      Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
    2. Re:Headline should read by KlomDark · · Score: 4, Funny

      But if you ask it "Who's the sexiest man in the world ever?", it answers "Klom Dark"! :)

    3. Re:Headline should read by Nerdfest · · Score: 4, Funny

      Now if only they'd design a phone the same way.

    4. Re:Headline should read by MisterSquid · · Score: 5, Funny

      But if you ask it "Who's the sexiest man in the world ever?", it answers "Klom Dark"! :)

      I just finished Googling for a "Klom Dark" meme I hate you.

      --
      blog
  3. Wicked Witch by Opr33Opr33 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of all...

    1. Re:Wicked Witch by BackwardPawn · · Score: 5, Funny

      Remind me at what point in the story the poison Apple comes into play.

  4. Google "Best search engine" by toygeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Number 1 answer: dogpile.com

    Its funny, but its objective. They've avoided anti-trust by giving a genuine ranked answer. Apple, cowards that they are, just avoided the question altogether.

    If I googled "best search engine" and google came back with "Wait, there's other search engines?" I would laugh, and then think them idiots.

    1. Re:Google "Best search engine" by atrain728 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course, dogpile.com is supported by google ads. Win-win!

  5. It didn't do that for me... by _xeno_ · · Score: 5, Funny

    When I tried "What is the best cell phone ever?" SIRI came up with a cell phone store. Apparently the SIRI algorithm is essentially:

    1. Is this a built-in joke phrase?
    2. Does this contain keywords like "alarm" or "weather" for various command phrases?
    3. Is there something with that name nearby?
    4. Did a Wolfram-Alpha search come up with something?
    5. Bomb.

    Which kind of demos how useless the whole thing. Especially with the ridiculous lag times. The old 3GS voice commands were perfectly usable for controlling the iPod app and making phone calls. The new SIRI-fied version is entirely useless because instead of working, you just get to wait some 5-10 seconds for the SIRI servers to process whatever it was you said. Assuming it works at all.

    "Call mom."
    (15 seconds later) "I'm sorry, something went wrong."
    (sarcastically) "Most advanced cell phone ever."
    "I found a place matching 'cell phone' close to you."
    "You're useless, SIRI."

    --
    You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    1. Re:It didn't do that for me... by tool462 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Pretty much. We recently switched cell providers, and my wife opted to get an iPhone. Here is one of her conversations with Siri (details paraphrased/redacted):

      W: Find me a mexican restaurant in __city name__.
      S: I found 23 places near you
      W: (looking at list) Where is __first restaurant in list__.
      S: I can't help you with that.
      W: Habla Espanol?
      S: I don't want to argue with you.

      That was more or less the gist of every conversation she attempted w/ Siri. Never any really useful information. She frequently got "I can't help you with that" or something similar. The only value seems to be the entertainment when you stumble across one of the easter egg phrases. It's like playing around with the old Alice AI bots. It can be fun for a bit, but the novelty wears off quickly, at which point, it's useless.

  6. At least they didn't ... by MacTO · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At least Apple didn't replace the response with an endorsement for their own product, which is what I'd expect from any vendor (including Apple). Questions like this, after all, have a definite conflict of interest.

  7. Re:Seems more approprate to Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    No, the "ever" qualifier is what triggered the Wolfram Alpha results. "What is the best phone" without ever always returned the joke.

  8. Simple work-around by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Siri, what would the old Siri recommend as the best phone?"

  9. Odd. by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apple's perfected their time machine, then, because "wait, there are other phones?" is one of the (several) "joke" responses I got from asking "what's the best smartphone?" on the 4S launch day, amongst other responses like "the one you're holding."

    Two minutes on Google backs this up.

    C'mon, people. It isn't that hard.

    --

    Obliteracy: Words with explosions

  10. Siri = Voice of Apple Marketing by QuietLagoon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple has made a strategic mistake here, giving the Apple Marketing Department control over the validity and content of the results that Siri provides.

  11. Change? by wzinc · · Score: 5, Informative

    Depending on the way you asked the question, Siri already told that joke. Maybe they added a few more phrasings, but that joke has been in there for a while, possibly since day one.

    1. Re:Change? by _xeno_ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just to corroborate this, the original joke phrase was "What is the best cell phone?" and would get answers like "the one you're holding!"

      By adding "ever" to the end, you used to trick SIRI into going further into its algorithm and could get the Wolfram Alpha answer. Apple just added "ever" to the end of the joke phrase.

      I wonder if there are other words you can still add to get the query to go through again? Like "created" or "made" or things like that? I'd try, but I get very little cell reception where I am right now, which translates to SIRI failing more often than not.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
  12. Ranked by Best Buy customers... by gQuigs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wolfram Alpha, "Mobile phones ranked by Best Buy customer review average and customer review count:"

    Currently HTC Trophy is first followed by an iPhone.

    The winning phone has maybe 23 reviews (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_dynSessConf=-1144113708518003664&id=pcat17071&type=page&st=htc+trophy&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=15&sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960). Which must be highly significant .

    The most interesting thing to me here is, that BestBuy.com reviews can be exploited to influence Siri users....

  13. Reply was there originally by lymond01 · · Score: 4, Informative

    For all those of you who never asked Siri what the best phone was when you first got a 4S, the joking was there from the start. Some update must have removed it and had it actually try to answer the question using Wolfram Alpha. They simply put the joke back in.

  14. The old result was a glitch in WolframAlpha by Smurf · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you look at the current results for "what is the best smartphone ever" in Wolfram Alpha you will find that they also changed the answer. Now it just gives you a list of five smartphones tied at 5 points of average score by Best Buy customers: HTC Trophy, iPhone 4s, iPhone 4, Lumia 900, HTC Rhyme, in that order.

    That's because Wolfram Alpha was indeed being embarrassed because it seemed like they were endorsing a particular phone by providing a lot of details about the first entry in the list (at the time the Lumina 900), but if you looked deeper the whole thing was bogus.

    Expand the list (press the "More" button four times) and you will find that there are actually 28 smartphones with average scores of 5 in the list! A couple of days back when Siri's comical response was revealed there were 13 tied in first place.

      And let's not forget that these scores are averages of a very small number of reviews (at this time 9 for the iPhone 4s and 5 for the Lumia 900; yesterday it was 2 for the 4s, 4 for the Lumia 900) making the whole measure even more worthless.

    (Apparently when they are tied the order in the list is decided by the number of reviews, thus the descent of the Lumia).

    1. Re:The old result was a glitch in WolframAlpha by Smurf · · Score: 5, Informative

      OK, here's an article describing with some more detail what happened.

  15. Re:Here's How I Read It: by Anubis+IV · · Score: 3

    Except that they didn't. That joke has been in there for quite awhile. Hell, the article I first read reporting the Siri issue even had a screenshot of that joke in it.

  16. Streisand Effect by cervesaebraciator · · Score: 3, Funny

    I now want to know more about the Nokia Lumia 900.

  17. Re:Seems more approprate to Apple by Patch86 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I ask for smartphone reviews, I expect smartphone reviews. It does bill itself as your big internet helper. If I wanted jokes when I asked for smartphone reviews, I'd download an app called "smartass jokes".

    It's one thing to have jokes in there for when people ask blatantly daft things, like "will you marry me Siri", or "find me a restaurant on Mars". But when you ask a common question with a simple answer, you expect to get an answer.

  18. So Siri is now completely useless by SilverJets · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple just tipped their hand. They will change what Siri responds with if they don't like the answer.

    So now ALL answers Siri provides are in doubt. Was the answer what Siri actually came up with from search results or did Apple intervene?

  19. Dialing out of service range? by bhpratt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hate siri 1.0...so voice dialing or voice control of the music fails when out of service range.

    How often do you find yourself needing to dial a number when you have no service? I can't see voice dialing helping much in this situation :-)

    Of course, you can get the normal voice control back by turning off Siri in your iPhone's settings, but I admit that toggling this when you're in and out of service should probably be automatic.