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Ask Slashdot: Is Outsourcing Development a Good Idea?

New submitter penmanglewood writes "I am a developer at a small IT company, and we primarily make software and games for the education market. I used to work with a team of developers, but for reasons outside the scope of this question, my boss and I are the only ones left. My boss says that our new strategy is to use outsourced developers to do the 'monkey work' for us. To me, this sounds like a bad idea. Do we give the developers access to our internal libraries? How will they be able to work on parts of our product without having access to our repository. I could think of a hundred more objections, but maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way. Is there a smart way to outsource development, or is it just a bad idea?"

17 of 403 comments (clear)

  1. Just remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You get what you pay for. There's a reason those outsourced programmers are so cheap. They don't care about you, or your project, and they don't have to maintain it when it breaks.

    1. Re:Just remember by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, the problem is that you often don't get what you pay for. The most important think when considering outsourcing is to work out how you are going to evaluate their work. If you don't have a mechanism for rejecting bad work, you'll get bad work. If you're doing off-site code review with people several time zones away, you may find you're spending more time doing code review than it would take you to just rewrite it from scratch...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Just remember by multicoregeneral · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I started outsourcing awhile back when I needed to be in two or three places at once, and the work was too much for me to finish on my own. Initial experiences with it were awful. Just really bad. The work was terrible, and I had to shell out cash for things that never got done. Initially, I ended up doing a lot of rework. My first thought was that the language barrier and cultural differences were an issue.

      So I engaged with Google translate, broke projects up into smaller pieces, and communicated in shorter well thought out sentences. Also, for cultural reasons, they almost never tell you when they fail at something. So you have to actually instruct them to do so, or they will leave you hanging, or worse, spinning their wheels on the clock for days on the wrong thing.

      If you're doing something complex, you're going to want to stop, break it up, and explain it exceptionally well. Otherwise, you're virtually garaunteed to lose money.

      That said, I don't think outsourcing is so bad these days, once I've gotten the hang of it. Now that I'm accustomed to it, I don't offend people as often with bad jokes (never tell jokes), and the work gets done with close to an 80% satisfaction rate. I recommend it, but there will be a learning curve.

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      This signature intentionally left blank.
    3. Re:Just remember by elgeeko.com · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Further south, we're true hay seeds. Kansas City Mo. I think he got bent out of shape because we've outsourced some of our work to a couple guys in India when the deadlines have changed and exceeded our internal capacity. Some of the greatest developers I know are from India and if someone thinks taking advantage of their skills is "Un-American" then that's their loss. We developed those relationships, those friendships, because they share the same passion for development that we do. As a general rule we only re-outsource when the dynamics of a deadline changes in mid-project and we need some quick help. Yes, we're Americans, but most importantly we're humans beings, just like those guys in Bangalore.

  2. ...turn off the lights? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...as if your the last two left, there isn't a company left - it's time to pull the plug. If you can't perform the service / provide the product you were created for within the organization, or even get it started - then you are just conservators of a bunch of assets, waiting for the right time to call it quits; not a software development firm.

  3. Answer: by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No.

    Thank you. Next question?

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  4. It's Always Tricky by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You need to balance your workloads with the project timeline. If the two of you can do it on time and within your budget, then you should try to do it yourself. If not, you'll need to spend quite a bit of time managing the individual(s) or company that you outsource your project to.

    If your internal libraries are proprietary, you'll need to be smart. Don't give away the source code - just the compiled libraries. If you need to issue temporary licenses for the libraries to run (if your code requires licensing), make sure they are for 'dev versions' so they can't be used for release versions.

    There are lots of reasons to keep development in house, but if you can't do it all yourself you nee to pick your developers well. Make sure you get references and that you check all of them. Make sure they provide references for several years back so you can see if they tend to repeat the same mistakes.

  5. Sell the business by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Try IGDA, the Independent Game Developers Association, and find a team with a track record of a game roughly similar to, or better than, the one you want. Give them participation in the deal, so they get paid a basic price plus some fraction of sales. This will encourage them to make it good, not do a half-assed job.

    Rent-a-Coder and Freelance will not help. I've never been able to get good work from there for anything above the trivial level. (I once wanted screen scrapers written for state corporation registries. I'd written one for one state, and wanted someone to write the other 49, each state being different. No joy.)

  6. The Attitude Is Telling by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you are a developer, and your boss thinks programming is "monkey work", I'd be looking for a different job, right now.

    I know that's not the question you asked, but that's the answer I have.

    1. Re:The Attitude Is Telling by Barbara,+not+Barbie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you are a developer, and your boss thinks programming is "monkey work", I'd be looking for a different job, right now.

      I know that's not the question you asked, but that's the answer I have.

      Absolutely 100% the right answer.

      Because you're next no matter how it goes.

      It will go badly. And then there won't be the budget to fix the problem. Whose fault is that? Well, let's see ... the First Law of Business Physics is "Sh*t always rolls downhill." Since it's just you and your boss, guess who's at the bottom of the hill?

      So you will be blamed for the failure.

      Some problems are intractable - they cannot be solved under the given conditions and constraints. This is one of them. It's way past time to leave. Try to contact everyone else who's left, tell them you're ready to jump ship and would appreciate any assistance they can give.

      If the boss complains when you tell him that it can't be done, tell him you want a big raise. What's he going to do - fire you? Then he's out of a job as well. He's already looking around for another opportunity anyway ... the minute he finds one, you're dead in the water.

      --
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  7. Absolutely! by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 4, Insightful

    By all means, hire strangers who get paid in advance and have no personal stake in the outcome.

    Who fights harder, people whose country is being invaded, or the mercenaries doing the invading?

  8. The other side... by roninmagus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'll come from the other angle. I'm a consultant developer full-time. In order to be successful, don't keep the guys at arm's-length. Yes, they will need access to core libraries, and anything else that will make their project successful. You will need to put in place adequate agreements to protect your IP, however. Set milestones for them to reach, and have regular (but not overwhelming, once a week should do) contact with the developer to discuss their progress. Verify they will be using technologies that you are comfortable with. The consultant knows better their own work-pace than you do. Allow them some leeway to set their own development schedule, making sure that it fits in with your ultimate deadline. Often, you will not be their only client. It's tough as a consultant to make everyone feel special. I often have 3-5 projects I'm juggling at a time. Of course, you will need to get the warm and fuzzies that they are devoting adequate time to your project, but try to get a feel for their existing workload as well before moving forward with them. Just my two cents.

  9. so, what do you do? by DaveGod · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm curious, if you're outsourcing development what is it that the business actually does?

    I mean fundamentally. What is it your company offers your market? What value does it add, if someone else is doing the work? Why wouldn't customers cut out you, the middleman? How does it control everything that matters - supply lines, production, IP, quality, direction, and so on?

    An organisation is just that - an organisation. It doesn't fundamentally matter what's in-house and what's out, as long as it's organised i.e. controlled. However, it is dramatically more difficult when it's outsourced.

    Consider say Apple. It outsources production but retains everything else internally. What it has outsourced can be very heavily controlled because it's all extremely highly specified and those specifications are of a nature well suited to contracts.

  10. Re:Is it just a bad idea? by localman57 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Then again, the non-idiots are less cheap and sometimes that can be a turn-off for decision makers who are more focused on the bottom line than on the quality of the work.

    Exactly. There seems to be this myth around outsourcing that somehow there's a magic method by which an outsourcing company can provide you engineering or programming effort for less than what it would cost you to hire someone of equal quality, despite the fact that the outsource company has to provide facilities, licenses, computers etc for that person, and also make a profit. This just isn't going to happen. You go to outsource for business flexibility, or in order to gain access to expertise that you don't have internally, and don't want to pay to hire over the long term. If it seems too good to be true, it is.

  11. Run away ... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I used to work with a team of developers, but for reasons outside the scope of this question, my boss and I are the only ones left. My boss says that our new strategy is to use outsourced developers to do the 'monkey work' for us.

    You have no hope in hell of keeping a product going. You have no way of enforcing your deadlines. You're basically middle-men who may or may not be able to cajole your supplier into doing what you need when you need it.

    The projects I've been on that have used outsourcing usually required a fair amount of management to get them to do well-defined tasks to spec, and deliver that on time and working as expected. What you're describing sounds like it simply can't work.

    If what you do is primarily make software, and your boss calls that the "monkey work", then you're screwed. That's not really a strategy which is going to work, which means your small IT company will implode in a while

    Seriously, what is left for you guys to do? Collect the money and laugh all the way to the bank? What value do you guys add at this point?

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  12. Re:Going Through The Same Thing by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What developer would work for less?
    The reason the last 3 were so bad, is because you don't want to pay market wages.

    If you want to attract the right developers you will need to pay $70K+ and offer insurance and PTO and 401Ks. I don't see what is so hard to understand about this. If you cannot offer insurance and 401Ks you will have to pay more in wages to make up for that. Employees need to save money and have healthcare. Why should they suffer for you?

    You have already seen that paying crap wages gets crap workers. Why continue to try to do that?

  13. well, there's your problem, right there... by Thud457 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I used to work with a team of developers, but for reasons outside the scope of this question, my boss and I are the only ones left.

    I suspect this actually gets right to the heart of your problem.
    Just look at the other responses that basically say you boss has no respect for what you do, you should GTFO NOW.

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    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff