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Senators To Unveil the 'Ex-Patriot Act' To Respond To Facebook's Saverin
An anonymous reader writes "Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., has a status update for Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin: Stop attempting to dodge your taxes by renouncing your U.S. citizenship or never come to back to the U.S. again." See this earlier story on Saverin's plan to make the leap out of the U.S. tax system.
Like the Soviet Union where you can't leave?
Or like Nazi Germany, where you can leave, but not bring any of your valuables?
Senators to drastically simplify the tax system and eliminate loopholes?
Instead, these two people are going to overreact to the publicity received by this particular individual and create a bill to address him and the people like him (I believe under a couple thousand people over the last few years). It will do little to impact the nation as a whole.
Imagine if they were to put their effort into fixing the root of the problem...
Most of them are lawyers. There's an entire field of law dedicated to tax avoidance. Gaming the rules is what they do. Whining that someone else is doing the same is remarkably disengenuous.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Expatriates from every country have family, friends, and historical ties to the country they came from. Denying visitation for that reason is morally wrong. Moreover I'm universally opposed to bills of attainder and ex-post-facto laws. They were stupid and contemptible back during the ACORN stupidity, and they're still an unreasonable abuse of legislative power now. If this act applies in any way to Saverin, it would be an undermining of the rule of law.
And extend this to the "other" people, AKA corporations that do this. Apple, Coke, Microsoft...the list goes on. If you don't like the loopholes, then close them. But start from a position of honesty and integrity before criticizing others.
Doing it as an individual is novel. However, it is a very common case for companies to do this - take all the benefits of incorporating in one place, then set up shell corporations to book all your profits elsewhere wherever taxes (and services, but it doesn't matter) are minimal. But then when somebody infringes their rights, they come crying to the powerful government where they incorporated (which actually has expensive stuff like courts and diplomats and armies to impose a global Intellectual Property regime... It's especially common among high-tech companies.) So if you include that, it is actually a large issue.
I'm not too comfortable with this particular law for some reason. I think I'd rather see nations work together to close the inter-government loopholes in corporate taxes instead.
Here is a quick one
John Kerry
http://bostonherald.com/track/inside_track/view/20100723senator_skipper_skips_town_on_sails_tax
I'm not familiar with all the details of this particular case, but there is a difference between paying as little tax as possible (everyone should be attempting to do this...) and committing tax fraud.
I definitely agree our tax system is junk and should not have so many loopholes that are exploitable by huge corporations and the wealthy but I really can't fault anyone for doing whatever they can as long as they are acting within the rules.
Investment income is the reward you get by risking your money by investing in a business. Investing in a business gives them capital to buy assets and hire employees.
It is not something that should be discouraged, unless your myopia extends to economics.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
That someone is successfully abusing the system better than they are.
Wake up America, the Democrats are NOT the Dems of yesteryear.
Sure they are!
Seems to me, the problem is that at some point people got this crazy notion that certain groups of politicians aren't selfish dicks...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
>>Who puts Saverin's house out when it is burning out of control?
Singapore.
>>Who paves the roads and repairs the bridges that Saverin's luxury cars utilize every day?
Singapore.
>>Who delivers the mail that Saverin relies on for his business and home operations?
Singapore.
>>Who manages the pipes and treatment of the shit that Saverin dumps down his toilets every day?
Singapore.
>>Who patrols the streets that Saverin lives and works on, protecting him from crime?
Singapore.
>>Who watches and protects the nation of America when terrorists and other countries seek to destroy Saverin's way of life, property, and business interests?
America, but he lives in Singapore and has for three years so he couldn't care less.
Because he didn't make any of that money based on Government-subsidized infrastructure, did he? Like, for example, the protocols and research necessary to create the Internet?
All valid points. However, I am a little bewildered as to why you have stood idly by whilst China conducts massive commerce over the same infrastructure with money actually leaving the USA and no sales tax being paid on those transactions to the American government. Where is your outrage there? Not only is that like a truck drive avoiding paying for roads, it's like a truck driver driving your money away on those same roads. Why is this not outrageous?
This is like someone making shedloads of money with a trucking company, and then doing everything possible to not pay for roads.
Look, my initial reaction to this story is identical to yours. I see this guy go to Harvard, reap the benefits of being in a safe country with tax dollars that create the ecosystem for something like Facebook to flourish and then when it comes to his turn to put back into the system, he kites off. Well, the story isn't that simple, he was born in Sao Paulo and probably is one of the people the US has brain drained from India, Brazil, etc in order to bolster our own economy. On top of that, Facebook is a global phenomena by now with serious activity world-wide. So, you know, I don't feel so bad that now Singapore or where ever he takes up residence has "reverse brain drained" the US in this instance due to "steep" taxes. I'd be more upset if Zuckerberg did it but in the end, this single IPO is probably trivial compared to every company maneuvering "sales" to Ireland and the Netherlands to avoid paying billions of dollars to the United States each year. This is a one time thing and I think the "Ex-Patriot Act" is garbage when they should be targeting the systematic avoidance done by almost every company that can claim international sales. Poor poor Eduardo, he was just being an efficient little Capitalist.
With corporate person-hood becoming a major problem, will the "Ex-Patriot Act" apply to these tax evasion strategies of which everyone is guilty?
My work here is dung.
From 8 USC 1182 - INADMISSIBLE ALIENS:
(E) Former citizens who renounced citizenship to avoid taxation
Any alien who is a former citizen of the United States who officially renounces United States citizenship and who is determined by the Attorney General to have renounced United States citizenship for the purpose of avoiding taxation by the United States is inadmissible.
So, what's the point of the "new" proposed law besides political grandstanding?
Texas' structure seems to be working well for all those people who are *voluntarily* living in (and moving to) Texas. Why does that bother you so much?
I find it quite bad if the Senate is actually doing this in response to one guy leaving. The constitution offers us 2 key protections that I wouldn't want to live without:
* No ex post facto laws.
* No bills of attainder
In other words, the congress is forbidden from using their power to make laws to punish people they don't like especially after the fact. That leads to the worst sort of tyranny. Any law crafted to target one individual (or a very smal group) is effectively a bill of attainder, even if it doesn't mention them by name.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Seriously. Try living in Illinois. Everything is illegal, our taxes are horrible and the state is still broke.
The other guys?
It wasn't Bush was asked Congress to add 2 sentences to the NDAA giving the executive branch power to arrest and detain Americans w/o a right to trial. That was Obama. And with 60% (house) and 90% (Senate) of democrats voting for it (House).
Let's face it..... both parties are pricks. It's about time the Republicans and Democrats merge into one party (since they act basically alike), and a new 2nd party arise so we can have some real choice.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Back in 2007, Halliburton was making so much money off no-bid war-related contracts, it moved headquarters out of America in order to avoid paying taxes on all the money it was making from the US government.
Very clever Mr. Schumer!
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I didn't ask for the government's help.
I dunno. I could believe that if you don't use government-provided roads, depend on government-provided police to keep the burglars away while you sleep, depend on the government to keep the [insert latest boogieman country here] from invading, depend on corporations that only exist because of government charters, use government to protect you from the most egregious abuses and thefts of those corporations, provide a money supply so you don't have to pay your ISP with cabbages and eggs, keep the mining company just uphill from you from building crappy earthen dams that will maybe collapse and wipe you off of your land, and depend on the government to keep melamine out of the milk you buy. And don't depend on government to allow you to "own" the patch of gawdforsaken land on the mountaintop that you live on and never leave.
Taxes are for the poor and the ignorant. The tax laws are written by wealthy law-degree wielding politicians and their corporate campaign contributors. There are no "accidental" loopholes. If you are middle class, live frugally all your life, you are sooner or later going to be in for a rude awakening. If you are an emerging rap star, athlete, lottery winner, or you inherit your great uncle's farm, you are going to get nailed. But if you come from wealth, or if you come into wealth through scheming, nepotism, and bribery, then you likely know how important it is to have a good wealth management company, tax advisor, and asset protection attorney. This is why you read about rich people declaring bankruptcy and then buying out some multi-million dollar company in just the next year. At some point your wealth grows to such an extreme point that you must protect it from the greedy masses of democratic societies. This is the world where you
incorporate in the Cook Islands
bank in the Cayman Islands
maintain residence in Monaco
maintain citizenship in Switzerland
register your yacht in the Bahamas
spend most of your time traveling the Caribbean and Pacific Islands
It doesn't hurt to befriend a lonely and isolated dictator or two.
Small government? Small government gave us Love Canal, the Housing Crisis that only took down the entire U.S. economy and gave the world's economy the flu, Enron, the toxic sludge flood in West Virginia from the Martin County Coal Corp., L.A.'s air quality before the EPA forced them to clean it up, etc...the list is quite long.
Small government means no FDA to make sure your prescription isn't ground up beetles. It means no high fund to fix the interstate network's bridges (yep, those states are going to get right on top of that one). No NTSA to do post mortems on plane crashes because you can always trust the airlines with your safety. No SEC to make sure you aren't buying that swamp land masquerading as a gold fund.
Grandma doesn't get her SS check, you know the one, the one that prevents her from having to move in with you. Grandma also won't get her medicare, you'd pick up her medical expenses for her, right? While we're at it, lets turn the mentally ill out of their group homes, you have some extra room in yours, right?
The list goes on. Fucking grow up already.
The words "liberal" and "conservative" represent a false dichotomy, promoted by your masters in the news media, and parroted by clueless morons such as yourself who are baffled by the idea that the world does not exist in black and white, but only shades of gray.
In other words, you're a tool.