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Falcon 9 Launch Aborted At Last Minute

ClockEndGooner writes "Sadly, SpaceX had to abort its launch of the Falcon 9 to the International Space Station this morning due to higher than expected pressure levels in one of its engine chambers. NASA and SpaceX have another launch window scheduled for early next week." Probably better than an engine failing during launch; hopefully everything is worked out for Tuesday.

49 of 149 comments (clear)

  1. Last minute pullout by arcite · · Score: 4, Funny

    I guess it's better than blowing up!

    1. Re:Last minute pullout by jhoegl · · Score: 3, Funny

      I dont know why they would do this.. I mean, certain groups are against aborting and require you jam a rod up the hole for an education on why abortion is bad.
      I, for one, thinking aborting to save a life is the right choice, but others think aborting should be left to "god".

      Wait... what are we talking about?

    2. Re:Last minute pullout by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      'Unforeseen Consequences'. Get it right or I'll beat you with this crowbar.

      --
      Good-bye
  2. fuck CBS. by StormyWeather · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "It's a setback for NASA's plan to have private companies take over much of what's been an exclusively government enterprise. "

    Not really, the thing intelligently averted a possible problem. Look at the reams of government rockets that blew up on the pad or feet off the ground. Are folks set back? Maybe a little, but if it had blown up it would have been more of a learning experience than a setback. Rocketry is almost nothing but constant failure. The fact that they didn't lose the hardware is an amazing success in my book. Typical CBS trying to paint private enterprises as being unable to compete with the government. Sure private companies can't force citizens to pay for their goods, so are forced to maintain costs to a greater degree, but an amazing set of engineers working anywhere can do amazing things, and are only limited by the bureaucracies they work inside of corporate or government.

    1. Re:fuck CBS. by Dyinobal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ya it seems to me CBS is being a putz, how many times has NASA delayed a launch? Launch delays are pretty par for the course when it comes to any sort of orbital ventures. These rockets are not simply devices and safety is taken very seriously because at the most basic level they are simply a controlled explosion, that runs the risk of becoming an uncontrolled explosion with the slightest problem.

    2. Re:fuck CBS. by The_Laughing_God · · Score: 3, Informative

      A Falcon 9 can lose not just one but two of its engines *after* launch and still complete its mission.

      It's just not going to take off when it spots a problem when it's still on the ground. The Saturn V couldn't spot such a problem, much less abort half-a-second before lift-off. It would have been past the point of no return

    3. Re:fuck CBS. by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

      Although the Saturn V's system design took place at the Mashall Space Flight Center in Alabama, lift systems design and production were done by Boeing, North American Aviation, and Douglas Aircraft Company. IBM was another primary contractor. In other words, a large part of Saturn V was private, purchased by the gov't. SpaceX is private from the bottom up.

      --
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    4. Re:fuck CBS. by Teancum · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the press conference after the launch abort, SpaceX said this was essentially a similar failure to one they had on the initial Falcon 9 flight.

      The #1 difference between this flight and the previous flight is that the launch window was so tight that they need to wait a couple of days to get the same launch opportunity again rather than doing a quick recycle and trying a minor fix like they did with the initial Falcon 9 launch. If all SpaceX had to do was to get this vehicle into orbit, it likely would already be there right now instead of being delayed by a couple more days.

      BTW, this same situation also happened several times with the Space Shuttle, and you are correct that this is pretty par for the course of any space launch. Rocket science is hard stuff and very unforgiving if you try to apply public relations and political correctness into the Rocket Equation. I guess the next launch opportunity is going to be Tuesday, as the engineers involved want to inspect the #5 rocket engine and find out what went wrong. They are going to be very busy over the next couple of days, likely pulling substantial overtime hours as well.

    5. Re:fuck CBS. by Kjella · · Score: 4, Informative

      Tell me, How much of the 1960's Saturn V payload of 256,000 LBS to orbit can this shining new example of "private" technology the Falcon lift? If and when it works?

      Well, the heaviest rocket the US can launch today after the shuttle program ended is the Delta IV-H, which at 29 kLBS is not that much bigger than a Falcon 9 at 23 kLBS. The Saturn Vs were an amazing piece of engineering, but they retired almost 40 years ago because they had no other market or purpose than to go to the moon. The Falcon 9 will stand shoulder to shoulder with the Delta IV, Atlas V etc. in their most common medium configuration and the planned Falcon Heavy would exceed any rocket operational today but it'll still only be half a Saturn V. I'm sure SpaceX would love to build a rocket bigger and more badass than the Saturn V, but unless the endless budgets of the Apollo era come back I don't think that's going to happen. Not for NASA, not for SpaceX.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    6. Re:fuck CBS. by tsotha · · Score: 2

      You forget these "private rockets" are almost fully funded with government grants at this point.

      No, actually this isn't true in the SpaceX case. The design was fully funded by SpaceX. Now, much of the business they hope to capture is government business, so it's not like SpaceX would exist without the government. But they didn't get grants to build the rockets they've built.

    7. Re:fuck CBS. by Teancum · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Saturn V needed all five of its engines running at lift off. I don't know how often a Saturn V launch was aborted just prior to launch, but it did use a similar kind of detection system like the Falcon 9 used today and there were abort parameters for the launch. It wasn't until after the Saturn V was part way into its flight that it could lose one of the engines and maintain its mission profile. The 1st stage in that case did need to burn a little bit longer when that happened though.

      In fact the main job of the mission commander during launch was to grab onto an "abort" handle where at any point he didn't like any of the numbers he was seeing that he could twist the handle and stop the flight or send the crew module into abort mode and activate the launch escape system. There were other people who did something similar up until launch and even for a couple minutes afterward at KSC and in Houston at the Johnson Space Center.

      The real question that should be asked is why did the Nixon administration junk the Saturn V with all of those capabilities like you are suggesting and replace that with the Space Shuttle, which flew smaller amounts of cargo for a much higher price per launch? Yes, I know the Shuttle wasn't supposed to be more expensive than Saturn V launches, but in the end it turned out to be much more expensive, with a reduced payload capacity and completely abandoning the ability to travel back to the Moon.

      BTW, SpaceX is working on an engine called the "Merlin 2" that Elon Musk claims will have the same thrust capacity as the F1 engines used on the Saturn V. As envisioned in a future version of the Falcon 9, it will replace the entire 9-engine cluster currently being used with just one engine instead, or a heavy lift class vehicle that will completely replace for the first time in 40 years the capabilities America had once upon a time with the Saturn V. At the moment, no other country or organization on Earth has that capability or is even planning on that ability (even the SLS won't match the Saturn V performance envelope) so what is your point again?

    8. Re:fuck CBS. by Teancum · · Score: 3, Informative

      SpaceX has been receiving money for the development of the Falcon series of rockets from the U.S. government over the life of the whole program. DARPA helped to pay for some of the initial Falcon 1 flights viewing the prospect of another launch company as something beneficial for the American military. DARPA payloads were on board those flights, including a satellite put together by the cadets at the Air Force Academy which flew on flight 3 of the Falcon 1.

      This said, Elon Musk and the investors in SpaceX did pay for the bulk of the Falcon 1 development program, and the first two flights of the Falcon 9 were paid completely by SpaceX.

      SpaceX has received money under the "Space Act Agreements" program operated through NASA to help with the development of the Falcon 9 as well, including helping to pay for the conformance testing of the docking system that the Dragon capsule will be using to attach itself to the International Space Station. This current flight will also be paid for by NASA through the COTS program, although it should be viewed differently than the cost-plus contractor model that was used to develop all of the previous NASA rocket systems including the Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, and Space Shuttle vehicles as well as most of the other rockets that NASA has used in the past including stuff like the Scout rocket and other "unmanned" vehicles.

      There is a difference here, even though I will be the first to admit that some government money is being involved. The largest difference that should be noticed is that SpaceX owns the vehicle and does not need NASA permission in order to sell these vehicles to private individuals.... which was not the case for the Space Shuttle or any of the other vehicles operated by NASA. In the 1970's, a wealthy person could not have gone to Boeing and the other NASA contractors to simply buy a Saturn V regardless of how much money they had, and I know for a fact that in the 1980's and 1990's there were several private investors who wanted to buy a Space Shuttle....and couldn't get congressional authorization for the purchase. There are several private companies who already have purchased the Falcon 9 and will be on future flights of the spacecraft (assuming all goes well in the next few days). Those vehicle being purchased by private companies certainly are not being purchased with public funds.

    9. Re:fuck CBS. by AJWM · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The SpaceX spokeswoman compared it to a pilot doing an engine run-up and checking the gauges before take-off. They ran up the engines, didn't like what they saw on one of them, and shut it down.

      Shuttle did something similar at least once, possibly twice: ignited the main engines, saw something out of spec, and shut them down before lighting the solids. (Once you light solids, you're going somewhere whether you like it or not.)

      For that matter Gemini 6 (manned) did something similar with the engines lighting and the launch aborting before actual lift-off. In that case an electrical plug which was supposed to disconnect as the vehicle lifted off fell out when engines started. The computer saw that the plug was out but the vehicle hadn't moved and killed the engines. The astronauts should have ejected (if the Titan booster had lifted even a little it could have exploded when it fell back) but decided not to since they'd felt no motion (Schirra had experienced a Mercury launch). It launched successfully three days later.

      --
      -- Alastair
    10. Re:fuck CBS. by Hadlock · · Score: 2

      I wonder if the computer was waiting to see if the pressure subsided before the launch window closed.
       
      In the Apollo era, I'm sure there were some automatic shutoffs, but I imagine a lot of data had to be monitored by humans, making these sorts of last half second aborts a lot less common.
       
      It's also worth pointing out that SpaceX is developing a human rated rocket based on the same basic technology. It would be really hard to sell NASA, congress, and perhaps most importantly, the astronauts riding on top of the thing, if it blew up on the pad. An abort costs millions of dollars, but three days worth of delays is nothing compared to flushing six years worth of hard work down the drain just because they weren't overly cautious. Expect to see more delays more often in the future to avoid catastrophic failures during launch.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    11. Re:fuck CBS. by AJWM · · Score: 2

      The Saturn V could (and did) shut down 1 of it's 5 first stage engines and still go to the moon

      Not at launch, it couldn't (and never did). An engine failure up to T+7.5 seconds would likely cause the vehicle to collide with the tower (it took a long time to clear the tower, launch thrust-to-weight ratio was low, and it's a tall tower) and would be problematic even after that.

      Apollo 13 lost the center engine on the second stage two minutes early due to a faulty pressure sensor, the other four burned longer to compensate.

      Also, a Saturn V launch cost about a billion dollars a shot. That's quite a bit more than Falcon.

      --
      -- Alastair
    12. Re:fuck CBS. by AJWM · · Score: 2

      When the Shuttle was first in design mode, it was supposed to replace everything except Saturn V on the high end and Delta (much smaller then than today's version) on the low end.

      However, after the last few Apollo moon landings were scrapped (the plans went to Apollo 20) and some of the hardware repurposed to Skylab (or in the case of two perfectly good Saturn Vs, lawn ornaments), the VAB and launch complexes 39 A and B (C was planned but never built) were reconfigured for Shuttle and thus rendered useless for stacking and launching an S-V. It was a cost-saving measure but meant the decision to never fly another S-V had been made.

      And the scrapping was as much due to Congressional pressure as anything that Nixon decided -- some of those decisions had been taken toward the end of the Johnson administration.

      --
      -- Alastair
    13. Re:fuck CBS. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Not really, the thing intelligently averted a possible problem.

      So, it's failure is really proof of it's success! Cancellation of take-off, FTW!

      Maybe they just didn't use enough Reardon Metal when they built this thing.

      I guess we just have to lower the bar when private industry does something, you know? I'm sure they'll get it right, sooner or later, and maybe someday they'll do it without government money.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  3. Caution is good by gagol · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am glad to see this private enterprise is going with caution as opposed to rushing their launch no matter what. Microsoft and many other software companies can start to take notes. Looking forward to see a Falcon 9 servicing the ISS safely when ready.

    --
    Tomorrow is another day...
  4. technical problems != technicalities by excelsior_gr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Kudos to the engineers and their managers that realized that technical problems are not technicalities. It took two Space Shuttles and a few unmanned missions to figure it out, but I guess we are learning, and that is a good thing.

    1. Re:technical problems != technicalities by cryptolemur · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I understood from the live footage that it was actually the computer on the Falcon that cut off the engines right after ignition, not any engineer or manager. I may be wrong, though.

      I also noticed that if SpaceX had to build the launch pad, the infrastructure, the launch control and the flight control centers, they might come up with bigger bill. But then again, NASA wasn't building the earlier rockets either, was it? So what exactly is new in this endeavour?

    2. Re:technical problems != technicalities by kestasjk · · Score: 2

      But then again, NASA wasn't building the earlier rockets either, was it? So what exactly is new in this endeavour?

      Good points. I think the difference is that before NASA was saying "we want a bid for building a rocket with these exact properties / a moon lander to these specifications etc, and we will manage it and we will purchase it" it's now saying "we want a bid for a service to take these items from earth to the ISS"

      I always half thought it was just a way of decreasing funds to NASA without acting like you're scaling it back ("oh we'll be more efficient now" / "oh it's private enterprise that isn't getting its act together"), but this mission is an impressive sign that it might work out.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    3. Re:technical problems != technicalities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Liquid rockets can usually be shut down. Many can be throttled and even be restarted too.

    4. Re:technical problems != technicalities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Don't think you can turn off the engines once they are lit up

      Of course you can. You stop the turbopumps and close the valves. No fuel means no fire.

    5. Re:technical problems != technicalities by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Informative

      But then again, NASA wasn't building the earlier rockets either, was it? So what exactly is new in this endeavour?

      NASA more or less spec'd what the rocket had to do, rather than designing the rocket and hiring subcontractors to build it.

      But the main difference is that SpaceX can make this rocket in a way they deem efficient, rather than building some parts in one congressman's district, shipping them along a special rail line to another location, etc.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    6. Re:technical problems != technicalities by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      I think that is true with the solid rocket boosters on the shuttle, but I'm pretty sure with a liquid rocket you can just turn off the valves and pumps supplying the liquid fuel.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  5. good call by tverbeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    An aborted launch may not be a successful launch, but it also isn't a failed launch. Good call.

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  6. In MY space program, we don't do aborts! by ShooterNeo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When I'm launching my rockets full of explorers from the planet Kerth, we don't do aborts! If the engines are still attached to the ship, I'm punching the throttle and hitting the stage selection control! We're going to the Mun (or at least leaving the ground) no matter what!

    Also, I don't do any pansy ass "test flights" guided by computer to some orbiting tin can! Every one of my flights is crewed by red blooded, beer chugging, motorcycle riding Kerbals who LOVE it even when it all goes wrong.

    SpaceX and NASA could learn a lot from my experiences...

    1. Re:In MY space program, we don't do aborts! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I guess you didn't get the reference

      http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/

  7. Re:Pussies by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Informative

    When you have a $3.6 billion contract and a rocket that cost $300 million to develop and $200,000 just to fuel up, you are going to be very conservative when it comes to safety. The last thing you want is for your investment to literally blow up on you.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  8. traditional NASA by optimism · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From TFA:

    Even NASA's most seasoned launch commentator was taken off-guard.
    "Three, two, one, zero and liftoff," announced commentator George Diller, his voice trailing as the rocket failed to budge.

    They just keep following the old script, even when things change. Fresh blood, in the form of the private space industry, is great.

    Aborting a launch automatically based on sensor data is not a failure; it is a success.

    I'm sure the folks on the ISS have enough toilet paper and freeze-dried icecream to make it through the weekend, until the next launch window.

    1. Re:traditional NASA by damburger · · Score: 2

      Seriously? An announcer being surprised by the abort and not being able to follow what was happening for a second is the evidence you present for your idiotic, triumphalist neoliberal beliefs? Fuck right off.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
  9. "Commentator was taken off-guard" by quacking+duck · · Score: 3, Informative

    Even NASA's most seasoned launch commentator was taken off-guard.

    "Three, two, one, zero and liftoff," announced commentator George Diller, his voice trailing as the rocket failed to budge. "We've had a cutoff. Liftoff did not occur."

    Commentators do not have realtime views of the raw data that would indicate a cutoff.

    Space shuttle mission STS-68 had a similar last-second abort; at 1:00 in the video it even shows the countdown clock at T-0 seconds, even though the main engines actually started the abort sequence a couple seconds earlier. But with the shuttles, it was very obvious to the commentator when liftoff didn't happen because there were solid rocket boosters that didn't fire.

  10. Agreed...mostly... by neoshroom · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd have to agree with you entirely, minus the misdirected political assumptions.

    The journalist is looking at it from the standpoint that SpaceX was supposed to launch today and something went wrong, so it's a setback. In reality, what happened today was somewhat impressive in-and-of itself. The Falcon rocket auto-detected a problem with software and half a second before liftoff shut itself down without any damage.

    Would NASA have ever been able to do that? No. NASA would have sent the rocket into space with the problem because it had no such software. This already seems way better and safer.

    However, the journalist probably just didn't think about it that in-depth and so sees the failure to launch as a small failure (which it is, albiet not a serious one and a strong success at the same time). His talk of government is just boilerplate background not a biased pro-government agenda.

    --
    Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
    1. Re:Agreed...mostly... by Gripp · · Score: 5, Informative

      you honestly think NASA used zero fault detection?? they had triple redundancy of nearly every system for god's sake! I for one see a pressure sensor/valve as nothing impressive. I can't imagine that such technology hasn't been employed in the space program since day one.

      As for TFA - the media makes me bitter. Something that was intended for the good of the public has become vastly more of a harm. While I am of the opinion that the transition from public to private space programs should have been accomplished more organically, privatizing it overall is a good thing. And smear campaigns by the media is only helping to setback our nation - as funding and public opinion are often closely related.

    2. Re:Agreed...mostly... by dpilot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For onething, at least one launch was aborted after the SSMEs fired, 6 seconds before the SRBs were set to fire. Did you never listen to the radio control patter, especially during the early shuttle launches. They were careful to say what "window options" were open during each phase of the flight. There was "abort to launch site", "abort tranatlantic", (to Spain, I believe.) and "abort to orbit:". Beyond that, there were points where various abort or even mission completion options could be accomplished with a one-engine fail, or later on even with a two-engine fail.

      Much as it may be fun to bash NASA, they've probably forgotten more about such mission control aspects than private industry has had the chance to learn yet. While we're still bashing NASA, they've probably forgotten many of their own lessons.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    3. Re:Agreed...mostly... by DarrylM · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As someone else posted, an engine cut-off just before launch happened several times during the Shuttle program. There was even a case where a main engine shut down during flight, forcing an abort to orbit (ATO) - do a Youtube search for the launch of Challenger mission STS-51F.

      One of my favourite space-related quotes came from STS-41D (Discovery), which had a main engine cut off at T-6s. Apparently the situation was rather...tense, with a fire starting after the engines shut down. One of the crewmen broke the tension: "Gee, I thought we'd be a lot higher at MECO!" (Main Engine Cut-Off).

    4. Re:Agreed...mostly... by spitzak · · Score: 2

      It's really cute how you changed the story once you learned that tests showed the newer foam had better adhesion than the old one. Used to be that you claimed the foam fell off because of the new non-CFC formula. Now you say "the original foam being used would have broken up" which I guess is about the best you can do to somehow claim foam that falls off less is more harmful.

    5. Re:Agreed...mostly... by quacking+duck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Adding insult to injury, the reason why the Columbia was destroyed upon re-entry is in part because the Environmental Protection Agency got into a feud with NASA over the foam being used for the cryogenic tank connectors. The original foam being used would have broken up and was much, much lighter where it wouldn't have caused any problem like what caused damage to the leading edge tiles that ultimately caused the problems for the Columbia. The problem was that the original foam had chlorofluorocarbon compounds that were perceived as "hazardous to the environment". I don't know how many lives were spared by the switch to the new foam due to slightly reduced skin cancer rates worldwide, but I know of at least seven astronauts who are dead because of that change. I sure hope that EPA bureaucrat feels nice warm fuzzies over all of the lives he saved because of that move.

      The EPA bureaucrat has nothing on his conscience over the Columbia tragedy. The "EPA killed the Columbia astronauts!" hysteria that you wasted half your comment on, was Rush Limbaugh bullshit.

      As noted in this comment, the Columbia Accident Investigation Report states that the external tank used on that mission, and therefore the foam that broke off and doomed the shuttle, was an older tank and therefore still used the old CFC foam.

      (Link in that comment that refutes the Linbaugh bullshit: http://mediamatters.org/research/200508090007)

    6. Re:Agreed...mostly... by the+gnat · · Score: 2

      If "private industry" did the same, they would face manslaughter charges. Only government can get away with that level of incompetence and disregard for human life, and survive.

      Private industry did in fact do the same, and no, they did not face manslaughter charges. Contrary to common assumption, much of the launch infrastructure was already privatized, under "cost-plus" contracts which guaranteed a profit to the contractor no matter how expensive the final product was. In the case of Challenger, the contractor (Morton Thiokol) responsible for the SRBs ignored the warnings of its own engineers and told NASA to go ahead with the launch. (Doubtless NASA fucked up too, but it wasn't NASA's product that exploded.) They were ultimately fined for the disaster, but never had to admit legal liability.

      The end result? The same company (after some corporate restructuring and a later merger - it's currently called ATK) continued manufacturing SRBs, and Congress recently tried to force NASA to continue using the same SRBs. So, the moral is that when your biggest customer by far is the US government, incompetence and failure is no barrier to success in the private sector.

    7. Re:Agreed...mostly... by spitzak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You changed the "EEEEVILILL EPA CRASHED THE SHUTTLE!!!!" rant. There was plenty of articles saying "oh because they could not use Freon the foam was weaker!". Actually NASA was well aware of foam breaking off and ran tests on the new formula (by flying samples on the wings of jets) and it appeared to flake off less. So I thought it pretty hilarious that you changed it to "the old foam was safer because it broke up better". It also does not help the rant that the piece that fell off was not sprayed on, but instead a glued-on "bipod ramp" that was cast out of the *old* foam! It was glued to the metal structure.This same piece had been observed to fall off before.

      NASA did screw up in lots of ways, but you damage your credibility by stating urban legends as facts.

  11. Re:Don't count your chickens before they hatch by Cold+hard+reality · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They could have achieved this without lighting the engines.

  12. argh, you dumb fucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    NASA has been outsourcing more routine builds for decades now. The difference is in the method of tendering for contract.

    The development money and the greater part of the designs and all the launch centres have come from the US government (with a good bit of guidance from old Soviet designs). Whether the engineers' paycheques are from NASA or from Musk with him taking a cut is pretty much irrelevant.

    To re-cap:
    1) Public money;
    2) Most of the work thanks to public employees;
    3) Final implementation responsibility partly private.

    Whether Falcon9 succeeds or fails says really nothing much about the public or the private sector. The only thing we can say for certain is Boeing&co. were making a fucking killing from the US government before now - and they still will, but not so much from NASA.

    1. Re:argh, you dumb fucks by Nyeerrmm · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not quite though. The difference between traditional government contracting and the current COTS/CCDev approach is subtle but important.

      Development of all NASA vehicles (past the initial architecture studies) are done largely by private companies such as Lockheed Martin. However, the contracts for doing so are basically that the contractor is building exactly what the government asked of them, and they will be paid whatever the development costs with an additional guaranteed profit on top of it -- thus the name 'cost-plus contracting.' While this is necessary for high-risk, low-reward development, its something to avoid whenever possible since it combines the lack of competition of monopolistic or governmental development with the desire of corporations to increase their profits -- this is clearly a recipe for rising costs.

      COTS and CCDev operate on a model more like how you and I buy things. The companies contracted this way are being paid a fixed amount and expected to produce. Because this is an expensive field, some of the money is being provided up front (and at certain milestones) in order to speed up development, but even if the final product ends up costing more than NASA pays, we the taxpayer don't pay any extra -- the companies involved will still finish it though because otherwise they don't get paid (assuming they're far enough along at the time of realizing they're going to be over-budget that its still cheaper to finish). After development, it will be a purely pay for service contract, different from getting a Super Shuttle from the airport only in scale. By having multiple competitors and fixed-price contracts, costs and quality will be controlled.

      So yes, all previously development was 'commercial' as well. As someone involved in pushing for these "New Space" approaches, I really wish we had picked a better name for it, because the difference is subtle but importantly. Personally, I really like the name COTS because it implies the true goal: to make purchasing flights to orbit as simple as pulling the best competitor for the particular mission 'off the shelf' rather than requesting cost-plus custom solutions.

  13. Delta II blew up in 1997 by C0L0PH0N · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The technology to abort a takeoff in the last 1/2 second is truly amazing, and because of high combustion pressure in an engine is a perfect catch. If the Boeing Delta II in 1997 had had the same type of status checking, it might have discovered the 17 foot crack in the booster, and aborted also, instead of blowing up on launch: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9701/17/rocket.explosion/index.html. And a Delta III had a rocket engine failure in 1999, which ruined the mission: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19990626&slug=2968601. So the ability to detect an engine problem and shutdown before liftoff is again an amazing feat, and shows advancing technology. SpaceX is doing this right!

  14. What's with engine no. 5? by wisebabo · · Score: 2

    I read somewhere that the problem was with (slightly?) high pressure in engine number 5 (out of nine). The commentator mentioned that on the first Falcon launch, the engine at the same position failed/had problems.

    Does anyone know if it was the same (high pressure) problem? Is engine number 5 in an unusual spot (in the center?) that could cause it additional problems? (I don't know how the clustering of the engines are.). This is pretty wonky I know but I'm just curious if there is some correlation.

    I also read somewhere that one of the reasons for the failure of the Russian mega-rocket, the N-1, which was to put their man on the moon first, was because the first stage had 30(!) engines and it was impossible (at that time) to control them all. By comparison, of course the Saturn V had 5 engines in its first stage (each generating a million and half pounds of thrust!). I would assume that modern digital systems have made these control problems a thing of the past and that the Falcon 9 is not vulnerable to that problem. So more is better right? Could the Falcon 9 have made it to orbit even losing one?

    1. Re:What's with engine no. 5? by mattr · · Score: 2

      In the post-scrub press conference SpaceX President Gwynn Shotwell said that on flight 1 there was a high pressure problem on engine 5 IIRC but that it was trending differently from the way it did this time [so possibly a different cause]. They are going to open it up and check it out.
      This has 9 engines and all are needed at liftoff, though after liftoff is achieved it can do without 1 or 2 engines she said. Either they will determine that the engine can be used as-is, or they might take an engine off a rocket they have in the garage and use it instead.

  15. Re:where's the private sector magic pixie dust? by gatkinso · · Score: 2

    Show me the rocket that NASA built... and I'll show you the rocket built by a contractor.... which incidentally is private enterprise.

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    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  16. Re:Don't count your chickens before they hatch by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 3, Informative

    They could have achieved this without lighting the engines.

    The issue was high pressure in engine number 5. They would NOT be able to achieve this until combustion began, at which point the pressure they are measuring is generated. The guy hosting the webcast said something to the effect of "The computer analyzes everything after we light the engine, but before we release the rocket for flight, and will shut down if it detects a problem before we actually launch."

    A safety system worked as intended. All-in-all, a good safety system to have in place.

    --
    If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
  17. Re:Don't count your chickens before they hatch by Guspaz · · Score: 2, Informative

    The hold-and-release launch system they use (which many rockets don't) is what allows them to do this. They light up the engines, do their checks, and then if they're satisfied they release the clamps and launch the rocket. If they don't like what they see, they abort.

    From a technical standpoint, a Falcon 9 can operate normally with one engine failure, so they could probably have just shut off the affected engine and launched anyhow. Of course, they'd have no margin for error at that point... And they had no pressing need to launch now, since this wasn't a critical launch (it's not like the astronauts on the ISS are running out of food and will die if the delivery is late)

    That said, while Space X touts the reliability of the Falcon 9 due to being able to continue with one engine failure, that only applies to the first stage... The second stage only has one engine. Wouldn't this be a single point of failure? They can suffer an engine failure so long as the engine that fails isn't the one critical out of ten total engines?