MS Will Remove OEM 'Crapware' For $99

walterbyrd writes about a program from Microsoft to clean up bloated base installs, for a price. From the article: "Microsoft even offers up numbers to show how detrimental this OEM-installed crapware is to your system. Microsoft claims that Signature systems start up 39 percent faster, go into sleep mode 23 percent faster, and resume from sleep a whopping 51 percent faster compared to their crapware-ladened counterparts. (A 'Signature' system is one without crapware). But now, Microsoft will offer customers the opportunity to give their Windows 7 PC the Signature treatment by bringing it to a Microsoft Store and paying $99, according to the Wall Street Journal."

Comments

We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[vwpau227]

I'm sure we are not alone, along with other computer stores in the area, we do a "wipe and reload" of the OEM Windows (XP, Vista, or 7) for $65 plus the applicable taxes, and we'll even load the latest service pack for Windows on the computer. It can make the computer run faster, but frankly I don't think it is really necessary for most new computer systems. The Acer TravelMate and Acer Veriton (business class) systems that we sell comes with very little in terms of additional OEM bundled software.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[__aaltlg1547]

I did it to my Dell at home for free.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[erroneus]

Steep? Not so sure about that. We're talking about a process which takes a considerable amount of time. Of course, when I do it, I pay particular attention to verious details such as reloading the applications software as well as device drivers. I'm not saying it's "hard" but it is time consuming.

My first reaction was "Do they uninstall HP printer drivers?" I swear, I used to love HP printers. But lately I haven't seen a "driver only' install in place. It's always dozens of programs monitoring and reporting on printer things... paper, ink/toner and all that. Still not as bad as a Xerox program which consistently prevented a machine from shutting down normally, but it's kind of ridiculous.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[__aaltlg1547]

I could do that, but then it wouldn't be as compatible with some of the crapware I do want to run.

No, and I don't bother to reinstall Windows either. I just uninstall the Dell junk I don't want to use. There are also couple of items that are somewhat useful and already included in the (cheap) price I paid so I left those alone.

IMO, uninstalling Windows and installing Linux is just trading one set of headaches for another. Not worth the trouble in my case, though it is for some.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[__aaltlg1547]

Ah, but what they're selling is that it's done by "trusted" Microsoft people and what you get is a Certified Microsoft Windows Enter-Buzzword-Here. You always pay more for a name brand, even if you're getting the same thing. Or in this case, the same name brand.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[Solandri]

For all the crap Sony does, they get some things right. When I bought a Sony laptop for a client, I had to make system restore DVDs (it had a SSD and the restore partition was eating up too much space). During the process, I noticed a "minimal" restore option in addition to the complete restore. I did some reading and found that it's just the OS and necessary drivers. None of the crapware that normally comes preinstalled.

So I wiped the drive, did the minimal restore, and it was exactly as advertised. Clean system, all drivers preinstalled, no crapware. Hats off to the Sony engineer or manager who insisted on that feature.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[KDR_11k]

I got the driver package labeled "IT professionals only", that didn't include the crapware and was 1/10th the size to download.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[DAldredge]

None of the systems I manage nor any of my systems at home exhibit the behavior you describe. Perhaps you are embellishing just a bit?

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[mister_playboy]

since your DRM'd computer is still going to ask you to prove that your copy of Windows is genuine every couple of weeks (with yet another newer version of its genuine validation tool every time).

You're doing it wrong. WGA is trivial to work around.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[NiceGeek]

Ah, hyperbole. "Every couple of weeks"? Since I installed Win 7 on my PC, I've been asked to authorize it exactly *once* and I've even swapped out the motherboard since the initial install.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[stephanruby]

None of the systems I manage nor any of my systems at home exhibit the behavior you describe. Perhaps you are embellishing just a bit?

Yes, I embellished a bit, but not much.

Apparently, some people had it worse than I had.

In my case, I can't ever say that my copy was ever found not to be genuine, or at least it never told me that's what it found, but it just seemed that every time I received a critical update, Microsoft seemed to have forgotten that my copy had previously passed the WGA validation test successfully.

And yes as someone else said already, there are ways to get around WGA, but as a paying customer, I wasn't about to get around WGA. The people that get around WGA are the ones that are using pirated copy of the software. And I wasn't about to replace a perfectly valid purchased copy of a software with an illegal copy of the same.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[mysidia]

There are plenty of Microsoft Certified Professionals out there that work in a computer store

Those certifications are skills accreditations based on passing a test. Just because the professionals doing the work carry a personal Microsoft certification, does not mean that Microsoft certifies or stands behind their work product or controls the results in any way whatsoever.

Just because the work is done by a MCP does not mean the actual work is certified by MS; the MCP is not employed by Microsoft, so Microsoft does not certify all their work, they only accredit their ability to pass certain tests.

Now presumably, they are certifying the work done by their stores in some way, like most businesses do.

There are plenty of professionals who have paper Microsoft creds that are not really qualified, and could not get (or keep) a job at a M$ store doing the work.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[mysidia]

Since your DRM'd computer is still going to ask you to prove that your copy of Windows is genuine every couple of weeks

OEM systems are often pre-activated with some BIOS code and a special OEM customization.

Legitimate installs of windows won't ask you to prove it's genuine every couple of weeks if you don't make changes to the hardware every couple of weeks.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[EdIII]

1/10th?

My jaw dropped when I saw Dell pushing a 700+ MB printer driver. You have to look for it but you can find a 6MB driver only install instead.

How on earth you need 700MB for a printer driver and software is beyond me..

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[Tanktalus]

Just a wild guess, but I'm thinking you're not their target market.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[hairyfeet]

Actually friend its really not, you just haven't had anyone show you the correct way to do so. before you do a wipe and reinstall you need to go to WSUS Offline and have it download any patches and service packs you need for later. In mine I have every patch and service pack from Win2K through Win 7 X64 so no problems there, just launch once a month to have it update the latest patches. If you use MS Office you can have the service packs and patches included with WSUS, same with MSE antivirus. At this point you can download the latest drivers if you wish, but I only go for the graphics and wireless usually as I've found some of the OEM drivers for sound and NICs to be more buggy than the Windows defaults.

Next once the OS is installed you run WSUS, depending on how far behind your OS disc is from current this could take anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour but since its all automated who cares. My discs have the last service packs already so only the patches after the last release are needed, about 30 minutes or so depending on the system. after that has finished and you see all the drivers are checked out you simply go to Ninite and pick any of the third party stuff you need,browser, Libre office, codecs, flash, whatever. the only third party I use that I don't get from Ninite is either Pale moon (a Firefox fork compiled for newer CPUs) or Comodo Dragon (Chromium based with some nice security features) but since I have both of those on my network drive along with WSUS no time there. Once that is installed i go to Ninite and pick Klite, flash, Hulu TV (my customers enjoy having Internet TV) LO, Foxit, and PDF Creator. I usually give them Comodo Internet Security but if you use MSE or Avast you can just skip that step or grab Avast at Ninite.

Voila! You are talking about maybe an hour, hour and a half tops and since the majority of it is fully automated you only have to look in once in a while and see if you are ready for the next step. Since I usually have the systems on my KVM all I have to do is click over once in a while, couldn't be simpler friend. That is why I only charge $50 plus tax for the same service MSFT is wanting $100 for so I don't see why MSFT couldn't do it even quicker and cheaper than me.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[Pentium100]

One fun thing with HP driver I experienced is this:

I have a HP Professional Series Color 2500CM printer (quite old, but can print on A3 pages and the cartridges are very easy to refill, making the printing very cheap). The printer is old enough that Windows XP has a built-in driver for it, and it works quite well. Once I decided to download a driver from HP and try that out. It showed error messages saying that the ink cartridges and print heads have expired. As it turns out, HP has burned expiry dates to the printheads and cartridges, but the Windows XP driver does not check, which allows me to use the parts until they wear out (the yellow ink cartridge was supposed to expire in 2002 and I'm still using it).

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[jones_supa]

How on earth you need 700MB for a printer driver and software is beyond me..

Well, let's try to crack this. Has anyone here dissected those monstrous driver packages and looked at what there takes so much space? Or, can make an insightful guess?

In that capacity you could create a complete operating system with all applications. Even I am not stupid enough to roll a driver package of that size. Let me just jump out of the window.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[Iamthecheese]

I looked into it once. Drivers for every nearly related printer in every language, an extra bloated install program to choose which the user probably needs, spyware, more spyware, drivers for related all-in-ones, extra bloated "user friendly" crap, useless programs supposed to be usable for things like screen capture, photo editing, scanning, photo archiving, thumbnails, and sample data.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[jtownatpunk.net]

You're undervaluing your service, friend. If I was going to pay someone to deliver a clean and/or custom build, I would pick you over whatever random pimply-faced kid is working at the Microsoft Store over summer break. If M$ can get away with charging $100 for this service (probably just running uninstalls rather than doing a clean install), someone who actually knows what the heck they're doing and is building a clean install from scratch with optimal driver selection should be able to charge more.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[_Shad0w_]

Because it lets you prepare all the updates you need before you start, so you can run them in straight away after you're done, without needing to connect it to a network. It's also useful if you're doing more than one machine, because you only download it all once.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[catmistake]

Just a wild guess, but I'm thinking you're not their target market.

Not quite. Microsoft isn't using surgical precision to target scattered customers hiding in the wilderness. If nothing else, Microsoft's flagship product —which is merely the latest rehash of the operating system developed by and unwittingly freely donated by Digital Equipment Corporation, i.e. NT— is a swiss army knife of desktop operating systems (and fully recognizing this is a tremendously generous characterization of it, boy do I wish that's all it were). Microsoft wants it to be everything to everyone. They want everyone to pay and repay for many many licenses of Windows.

Now... I must digress. I had an emotional reaction to this summary that is epitomized in either some Jackie Chan meme I can't quite articulate, or an as yet unknown Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. meme. I had a similar reaction when Defender was announced. I realize that many of us work with Windows intimately, and need the hostile environment Windows creates in the sense that the unacceptable state a Windows installation inevitably degrades to puts food on the table: Windows is our work, and if it were perfect, we wouldn't have jobs.

But it just seems anathema to me that instead of fixing the product before they sell it to us and our clients, i.e. adjusting Windows such that crapware becomes extinct, Microsoft instead turns around and recognizes that there is this new market here created by a deficit in their flawed product, and now that this market is being exploited by the enterprising individuals that support their flawed product, Microsoft can now step in and directly compete with them. If I didn't know better, and I certainly do, I'd say Microsoft's target market was moronic lemmings.

It just occurred to me that what you meant was GP couldn't be the target market for this "product," the un-OEMing cleansing, because GP no longer uses Windows. And so I apologize to you because ... you are seriously hilarious and I missed it because I am mildly emotional about the announcement of this new "product," and well, look again at those pictures I linked to and try to figure out just what meme belongs.

Car analogy time! Lets imagine that the vehicles coming off Ford's assembly line are immaculate, and pass any white glove test. But (allow me to invent hypothetical) evil Ford OEM distributors for some reason feel it's necessary to cover the cars in a fine dusting of filth that is quite tricky to completely get rid of... the yuk seems to multiply. Oddly, it slows the car down and kills its gas miliage while doing it. And now Ford customers have been complaining that by the time they get their new vehicle, its covered in filth and grime. Enterprising Ford dealers build car washes next to their dealerships to not only satisfy the customer as best they can, but also to make an extra buck. So... when is Ford going to start building signature car washes to compete with the Ford dealers and get into this newly recognized car washing market? While the GP is saying "screw cars! I can't take the filth they attract," I'm (please find the meme for me, I'm tired) saying "Dammit, Ford... you've been selling these filth magnets for ages... when are you going to fix your cars so they can't get dirty??!"

Well... although my metaphor seems to weaken my own argument, because we all know that in reality, cars really do attract dirt and there's nothing anyone can do about it, operating systems are not cars and absolutely can be engineered to not allow OEM CrapWare® (and to a large extent, can be engineered to be self-secure against malware, viruses and the like).

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[PsychoSlashDot]

The only thing you should know (which you may already) is that toner cartridges have parts that will wear out. The seals tend to do so suddenly, and when they do the result is usually a very large leak inside the printer. Once that happens you need a very fine filter rated for toner in order to clean it up. I'm not discouraging toner refills, but you need to know that there's a limited number of rotations before they basically explode.

Quick related story. I had a customer who used a large scale laser printer for printing mail labels. Very, very low coverage per page and using very, very large cartridges. They were rated for something like 6,000 pages. Well, after 6,000 pages they'd still have a good 90% toner left. So they'd keep running it. And running it. Until it detonated inside the printer. They did this a few times then bought themselves a toner-rated vacuum because it was cheaper than tossing half-filled cartridges.

Just know there's a big mess in your future and you'll be fine.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[Anonymous Coward]

As IT people it is not our time we get paid for... it is our knowledge.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[catmistake]

If you want consumers to be able to install software, then OEMs can too. It's that simple.

It's a bit more complex than that, but fundamentally you're right. The big problem right now is that the Windows 7 license agreement allows OEMs to get away with this. Windows 8 is going to significantly change that landscape by restricting what OEMs can do on both a technical and legal basis. But that won't stop them from installing some kinds of crapware, which ultimately as you note is impossible to block so long as the consumer can install software.

The only real technical solution is a walled garden (where the OEMs are serfs in the garden alongside the user) which is a bad idea for other innumerable reasons.

I disagree. The issue is not a few app bundles sitting on the HD. The issue is with Wndows itself. There are plenty of developers for the platform that make well behaved applications. The problem is Windows allows any and all installers to install softwares that become part of the boot process, and/or sit in volitile memory all the time whether they are being used or not. Simply doing away with inits and system tray apps would go a long way towards preventing rot. Why must every app have crap installed all over the place? Why does every app need to have a system tray icon, and be available at the ready? Why can't we just LOAD an application when its needed, and why can't it be eliminated from volitile memory when it's not? Because Windows userland is broken, and Windows developers are assholes and exploit every bell and whistle simultaneosly if they can. It doesn't have to be this way.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[Lonewolf666]

Not the drivers, the security patches. If you go online without installing them first, it may become a race between malware infections and Autoupdate. A firewall might help, but installing the patches before you connect to the internet is even better.

This said, reinstalling the drivers and applications is something that WSUS Offline Update will not do for you. Using a recovery DVD from the OEM might just put the crapware back. So I think that part is the time-consuming part that justifies the $65 plus tax.

Re:We do it at our store for $65 plus tax.

[oyenamit]

Go to hp.com and navigate to the Support and Drivers section and then to Drivers and Software section. Search for your printer product number. You would be presented with a page that lists all the available downloads for your printer. Look for the section Driver. If you are lucky (like this page), the download under this section should be in 10-30 MB range. If so, it includes just the driver and nothing else (no installer etc). You will have to manually initiate installation of your printer and point to this package when prompted for the driver files.

In case you are not so lucky (like this page), there will be no option to download a driver only package. Instead, you will have to download the full software. Nevertheless, it should not be difficult to locate the actual driver in this package by searching for .INF files. After that, just manually initiate installation of the printer.

I don't know how much the concept of universal drivers has caught on, but HP provides drivers which can print to a variety of different physical printer devices. So, instead of downloading a different driver each for your different printers, you just install one HP Universal Printer Driver. This driver can print to all of your printers. It reduces maintenance effort since you need to update only 1 driver. Universal drivers are especially useful in office environments.

I am not sure where the drivers marked "IT professionals only" come from.

PC Decrapifier: Free

[Sarusa]

http://pcdecrapifier.com/

I tell everyone who gets a pre-installed PC to run this.

Re:PC Decrapifier: Free

[Sarusa]

I guess I need to tediously make the point that the one I mention is usable for people who I don't want to play tech support for, don't care about free/oss, and have no interest in leaving Windows (and if they did would go to OS X).

It's the guy who went to CostCo (or gawd forbid Best Buy) and 'bought a new laptop' and can't tell me exactly which one. I tell him 'go here, run this', and he's happy.

Anyone who would wipe it and install Linux already knows what to do (as I did with my last server).

Re:PC Decrapifier: Free

[Jafafa Hots]

I tell everyone "leave me alone, what do I look like, a tech support volunteer?"

Re:PC Decrapifier: Free

[bhcompy]

Not that it makes a difference. The people that have crapware can't read code.

Re:PC Decrapifier: Free

[mozumder]

I looked through that site. Didn't see anything useful there, just a bunch of linux distributions.

Re:PC Decrapifier: Free

[Zero__Kelvin]

I openly concede to being completely anti-Microsoft, and proud of it, but even I wouldn't claim that people who buy computers loaded with additional crapware can't read and understand code.

Re:PC Decrapifier: Free

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is just what I expected you to do, try to qualify it by excluding those people who didn't listen to you.

If they had, well, then they'd be enlightened and thank you. If they don't, obviously it's their fault.

Typical. Anybody that doesn't swoon over it, they're the ones with the problem.

And yes, as the other person said below, your advocacy is your own worst enemy.

Re:PC Decrapifier: Free

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I tell everyone to simply install Ubuntu...

Is that how you freed up your Saturday nights to catch various sci-fi marathons?

Re:PC Decrapifier: Free

[Billly Gates]

Because these users can't find the blue E and think the internets are missing.

The same users who freak out if the start menu is not there. The same users who look at Unity and go WTF ... same as Metro I may add etc.

My exwife was one of these users and made me go back to Windows. Why? Because Ubuntu kind of closed too worked on this laptop. There was always an issue. Always a config file to try something out with a cool Compiz graphical effect. Meanwhile her slooow Vista laptop just worked when she turned it on. She viewed Windows as having supperior quality because of that.

You can get angry at me all you want but it is her opinion. She also uses macs at work and dislikes them but tolerates them. She likes Windows. These same people who stick with XP because WIndows 7 is so radically start menu wise hate change.

THey will freak out when they put a blu-ray disk in and it can't play, clicking on MP3s wont work, their Ipod can't sync etc. Sure you can use medibuntu repositories to add them to you and I. Does the user even know what a codec is or care that the DMCA forbids mp3 and h.264 support out of the box? No. THey will get angry and blame Ubuntu and you for installing such a piece of crap etc.

Not to mention people do not give a damn about computers but us. Its like an appliance for them. It is illogical to buy a fridge or LCD TV and replace the LED for fun or the compressor in the fridge for tinkering. Just leave it alone and use it as a tool etc.

If you hate MS convincing them to use a Mac is a better bet. They just work, have great fonts, aesthetically pleasing, and reliable. That is what a user wants right? Even geeks prefer Windows for desktop use. Not everyone wants an ubuntu upgrade to hose their X settings, because the Linux kernel lacks an ABI ... in 2012!!

$99 !!!!!!

[Pieroxy]

Oh my... Is this just like going to an MS store and buying an brand new Windows 7?

Looks like MS wants to double dip here. They force feed Windows licenses to constructors that don't know any better than to crappify it, and then you have to go to MS again to de-crappify it?

Thieves.

Re:$99 !!!!!!

[HornWumpus]

They get paid to crappify it (by the crapwear vendors, Norton, McAfee etc).

Re:$99 !!!!!!

[firex726]

MS does not force anything on OEMs.

OEMs are the ones making deals with other crapware supplies to put their SW on the computers for money.

Dell or whoever buys the bulk license from MS, Dell then goes and gets paid to put the crapware on their computers when they are sold. I fail to see how you can fault MS for any of that.

Don't want crapware, well MS sells a clean version of their OS, and now they are also offering a removal service.

Re:$99 !!!!!!

[englishknnigits]

MS doesn't do the crappifying, the OEMs do. Microsoft is offering a service to remove the crap that OEMs install on OEM systems. If you want the service, pay for it. If you don't want it, don't pay for it. This isn't a good/evil issue, it is a "is it worth it" issue. If you want to be mad at anyone, be mad at the OEMs for not offering a crapware free option (that would cost more).

Re:$99 !!!!!!

[Undead Waffle]

Well, MS is somewhat to blame for providing the OEMs with keys that only let you activate copies of Windows installed by their crapware-loaded discs. At least this was the case last time I tried to use a normal disc on a new HP computer (admittedly it was Win XP).

I do it for free...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a CD labelled "Ubuntu"

Re:I do it for free...

[binarylarry]

What 3rd party software did you find preinstalled?

I'm curious, I'm running 12.04 and haven't noticed anything like that.

Re:I do it for free...

[Em Adespoton]

Likely video drivers and other "non-free" stuff.

However, it can be argued that almost ALL Linux software is 3rd party.... as well as being first party. That's the whole point.

Re:I do it for free...

[SuricouRaven]

I used to. Pre-Unity. Now I use Xubuntu.

Re:I do it for free...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I tried that, but it broke all my games.

Re:I do it for free...

[Cito]

PFFFT! I'm much more cooler than all of you windows/linux/mac fanbois!

I have no operating system on my computer! only idiots would install that bloated mess.. I have no bloat! I stare at my bios screen and it RAWKS!

black screen or bios screen... it's all ya need

Re:I do it for free...

[tftp]

He isn't talking about 3rd party software. He talks about unwanted software that is automatically installed for you. In Ubuntu it's Unity :-)

Re:I do it for free...

[dakohli]

I got an HP workstation, it seemed to take forever to get to a usable desktop, then it still persisted in going out to HP to see if there were any new drivers to download. In the end I wiped it, installed a full version of windows 7 and never looked back.

The article does mention that MS seems to install a lot of Windows Live applications, so, what's the point here? I would rather take the time to download and install just what I need/want rather than someone else dump a bunch of stuff on my computer for me.

This seems to me it is just a gimmick that MS is pushing. If you are going to remove the "bloat", then you should not replace it with other stuff of dubious value. Of course I do not do much with Windows Live, and perhaps other folks would welcome the installation.

Re:I do it for free...

[couchslug]

Works for me. I keep Windows contained in a VM, but don't use it much.

It's really MORE convenient to run Windows in a VM. No malware problems and Snapshots anytime you want them.

Re:I do it for free...

[Mister Transistor]

What, your hardware has a speaker?

Such Puffery.

I toggle in my programs via front panel switches and get my results from LED registers - the way GOD intended!

-- Sent from my PDP-8 --

Re:I do it for free...

[spd_rcr]

I tried that too, it also broke all my games and all my productivity.

Linux is a great idea and has many powerful tools, but for everyone who's not a comp-sci major, the OS is just supposed to launch the programs you want, and preferably do it fast.

A $99 'lazy tax' for everyone who doesn't want to format their hd, perform a clean install, setup their drivers, and download a ton of patches, etc...
meh, sounds pretty fair to me.
Those same people could have avoided all that junk installed on their pc if they'd just bought a computer assembled by an enthusiast company or a local computer shop in the first place. Those low prices at Best Buy or many online retailers are subsidized by all the crap they pre-load the systems with. Complaining about the crapware on an HP is like complaining about the ads on a "Kindle with special offers".

Re:I do it for free...

[msobkow]

Last week I did an XP re-install to do the last testing on some mouse/trackball issues I've been having (after the system got nuked by another problem, making it "safe" to do an XP reinstall -- I'd already lost the system.)

It took over 12 hours to install all the updates and service packs, core software, and I was nowhere near done with getting it ready to use.

Having diagnosed and corrected the hardware issue (an infected "smart" device that was using USB protocols to autoload an infection), I gave Ubuntu 12.04 another shot. (I'd previously written it off due to problems that were caused by the infected hardware.)

It took under 4 hours to install and configure everything I need except the database servers.

Now granted, XP is old and there were a lot of patches it had to install, but that's not really what caused the delays. What caused the delays was the endless cycle of reboots during the install process. WIth Ubuntu, I rebooted once -- when the kernel update was installed. I lost count of the XP reboots after 10.

I found Vista to be no better the last time I installed it.

The Windows 7 Ultimate install I did for a customer a few months ago also took a day and a half to go from raw system to fully functional.

Let's face it -- either Windows is horrendously designed and really requires all these reboots, or the third-party product vendors are hell bent on making people HATE windows just for giggles.

Personally, I can't imagine why anything other than a driver update or an anti-virus install should need a reboot. WTF can Adobe Reader POSSIBLY be doing to the system to require a reboot, for example? There is absolutely NO functionality for a PDF viewer that should require kernel-level integration.

By the way, beware the "restore" drive images on machines. As I've learned (the painful way), doing a restore with such an image also restores all the crapware you spent a day removing...

remove all the crapware?

[Ralph Spoilsport]

Then you won't have a Windows OS. Is it worth $99 to have your OS removed? I dunno. But inquiring minds want to know!

Re:remove all the crapware?

[aklinux]

The last Dell laptop I got, by the time I removed all the crapware, it wouldn't boot. Kept complaining about "no operating system found" or some-such. I installed Linux, and all was well :)

Re:remove all the crapware?

[rrohbeck]

So how much would MS charge for installing Linux? $199? Inquiring minds want to know.

Re:remove all the crapware?

[im_thatoneguy]

I bought a linux device (android phone) and it came chock full of crapware: telenav, T-Mobile TV etc...

I wonder..

[Duncan J Murray]

I wonder if this will be a problem for linux, if linux on the desktop really takes off. Looking at android, I guess so.

Latest from your local dealer!

[Anonymous Coward]

Bring your brand-new car back to the dealer, and for only $1000 we'll put air in your tires so you can accelerate to highway speeds!

Re:Latest from your local dealer!

[LordLimecat]

Microsoft isnt the dealer, theyre the parts manufacturer.

Wow

[gman003]

And I thought it was a rip-off when an OEM offered to not install crapware for $15.

Re:try $30 no tax cash

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess their new motto is "We kick the crap outta crapware!"

Discussed on Windows Weekly

[Amadablam]

Paul Thurrott discussed this on Thursday on Windows Weekly:
http://twit.tv/show/windows-weekly/261 (jump to 21:20 and watch for about 5 minutes)
Paul thinks there was some pretty shoddy journalism with this story.

Oh, so you want the meal without piss in it?

[Eightbitgnosis]

That's gonna cost extra, sir

In related news

[wbr1]

GM announced that all new cars would be sold with holes in the tires and a low fuel mileage ECM program until you purchase GM select service.

Just do a fresh install

[SirBitBucket]

First off, I build my own machines. So they are crap free. But all you gotta do is get a real windows install disc, not the one from the OEM which usually just reinstalls all the crapware, and reinstall windows from scratch. Sure you may need a few drivers, but Windows 7 usually handles that mainly automatically. It should take our windows key from the bottom of the machine... That and never runs 32 bit OS...

Re:Just do a fresh install

[Billly Gates]

You are talking over $99 anyway. Losing battle as many places wont sell you the OEM and only the expensive $299 one which is half the cost of an OEM machine.

If you build your own you spend hundreds more without a bulk discount that the OEM can get you. Many people struggling to pay the bills wont go this route if they need something to write documents and browse the web on. My Asus desktop also has custom software for lower fan speeds and a quiter experience with several EPU chips on the board. This wont work with a default disk and only the one from Asus has it ... complete with the BestBuy installer nagware app.

Surreal

[dmbasso]

[I know I'm gonna be modded troll, but whatever...]

People pay for a computer with an OS, then pay again to remove all the crap that come bundled. Yet it will still interrupt them in the middle of their presentations with annoying antivirus/upgrade/whatever messages, or keep them from using their computer for more than ten minutes when they had to restart, and the system becomes non-interactive updating itself*.

Then these same people come and ask me: why do you use a free OS? It must be crap! [insert facepalm image here]

[*true story, happened to my teacher during class. I guess it was deserved, for he had installed Windows in his MacBook.]

Re:Surreal

[Duncan J Murray]

True story that many have seen.

I saw a world-expert who was invited to a plenary lecture at an international conference giving his talk (which was meant to be the highlight of the conference) - when he was rudely interrupted by a pop-up which caused the fullscreen presentation to lose focus. The pop-up was indicating that it was about to shut down to complete the updates, and had a timer from 15s. An embarrassed projectionist quickly clicked on the 'delay' 15min button in a panic. He would have had to have selected another option from the dropdown menu to have chosen a longer time. But of course 15min later, the same thing happened again. This time the projectionist was prepared and quickly selected an option to bother it an hour later.

What a f***ing joke piece of s*** software!

Order without crapware

[Animats]

The last time I ordered a desktop PC, it was from Central Computers, a computer chain with a clue. I ordered it without crapware, and the invoice actually said "no crapware". Very nice.

Central Computers, though, is a local SF bay area chain, based in Silicon Valley. They do mail order, but they assume you know what you want. The order menu starts with "select AMD or Intel", and the operating system menu has "No operating system" as an option, which reduces the price by $109.95,

Preaching To The Choir

[westlake]

I tell everyone to use a far better decrapifier. Those who have listened always thank me profusely every time the subject comes up.

The probability that a geek will post a oh-so-cleverly disguised link to a Linux distribution as the all-purpose solution to any problem with Windows approaches 100% on any online forum ---

but the trend line for Linux adoption remains as flat as the Kansas prairies.

Top 5 Operating Systems From Apr 2011 to Apr 2012
OS Platform Stats 2003-2012

The good folks who post to Ars Technica have grown rather weary of the business --- and quite sharp with those who continue to waste their time.

arms dealer

[Surt]

The best way to make money is to sell to both sides. MS sells info on how to make your crapware difficult to remove to the crapware authors, then sells removal service. Next up will be selling removal exemptions to the crapware authors.

Makes ultraportables even more overpriced...

[Kergan]

At this rate, people will soon go buy MacBook Airs at Apple stores because they're cheaper than their Windows counterparts.

Microsoft Gets You Coming And Going

[swaha]

The "Microsoft Tax" or tribute to MS that every major PC OEM pays is largely responsible to why there is so much crapware in the first place.
Now you have to pay to have it removed.
Looks like a racket to me.

Crapware that overrides decent features

[dpbsmith]

Microsoft exerts control on their OEMs and dictates many aspect of the user experience, particularly allowing them to put various Windows logo stickers on their goods ("Vista-Ready" being a case in point). If Microsoft believes users will have a better experience without the crapware--$99 better--if they actually cared about their users, they would make crapware-free systems a requirement for using the Windows logo.

Or, at least, require OEMs to submit crapware to Microsoft for approval to make sure it is a genuine option that doesn't degrade the user experience simply by its presence.

Microsoft should definitely prohibit crapware that overrides decent Windows features that work fairly well. The biggest problem I have helping friends with their Windows systems is that when they want to know how to do something simple like burn a CD, I never know what to tell them--because their system has invariably had third-party crapware installed that takes over the Windows way of doing it, and does it in some entirely different way.

Another option.

[couchslug]

You paid for a Windows OEM license.

There are clean Windows .isos available for free download from certain MSFT VARs.

There are well-known loaders and OEM keylists to go with them.

Do what you think ethical.

How to get your life back

[SurfsUp]

Hey guys, there is no longer any need to put up with this. Just wipe Windows, put in Linux, reinstall Windows to a VM under Linux, and go play. You will get your life back. Take your pick of at least three great open source VM solutions for free or pay a modest amount for classic VMware, an amazing product that is one of the handful of proprietary binaries I allow on my system.

The problem with stereotypes...

[WebCowboy]

...is that they are even harder to kill than cockroaches. When the big nuke goes off in the sky and wipes out humanity, all that will be left are cockraoches and they will be using Windows because they think Linux is "only for comp-sci majors".

Linux is a great idea and has many powerful tools, but for everyone who's not a comp-sci major, the OS is just supposed to launch the programs you want, and preferably do it fast.

Using the "powerful tools" in Linux is not a requirement. My parents use a web browser, and email client and Libre Office 90 percent of the time. Ten percent of the time they play solitaire. and copy the pictures off their digital camera because they've filled their SD card with pictures of the grandchildren and great-grandchildren. They can do that on a Linux OS without "powerful tools" just as well as they can on Windows, maybe better.

It was those pictures that made my dad in particular interested in migrating away from Windows. They caught a virus that rendered their old Windows system unbootable and they had hundreds of pictures that had not yet been printed or backed up to CDs or DVDs on there and were quite upset that they may have lost all those pictures. I used Trinity Rescue Kit bootable Linux CD to recover their files, then reformatted their drive and installed Ubuntu. They still keep their Linux machine because "Windows is easy but I don't trust it with important files anymore", and they also hanve found F-Spot and Shotwell to be faster and easier to use than the crapware supplied with their digital camera for Windows.

Those same people could have avoided all that junk installed on their pc if they'd just bought a computer assembled by an enthusiast company or a local computer shop in the first place. Those low prices at Best Buy or many online retailers are subsidized by all the crap they pre-load the systems with. Complaining about the crapware on an HP is like complaining about the ads on a "Kindle with special offers".

OK, first you suggest that Linux is for "comp-sci majors", then you suggest the solution is to buy a PC from a system builder? I do agree with you, and it is why I bought a "no name" Clevo notebook online from a build-to-order vendor (finding a notebook with interchangeable discrete graphics cards and CPUs and is not pre-loaded with crapware-laden Windows that has no proper re-install media is impossible from a big box store). However, The kind of people who could not adapt to a change of an OS from Windows to Mac or Linux wouldn't have the first idea of where to go anymore. It seems that local system build shops are trending in the direction of video rental stores--sure some may be around forever, but they are the domain of the computer enthusiast, and that is a very narrow market. Also, the general public has a certain "comfort level" with the big chain stores--they know what they are getting (even if they don't always like it, at least they have expectiations). It is probably just as easy for average users to have someone format and resinstall an OS (Windows again, OR a Linux OS or whatever) than to spend time to seek out a local computer shop and worry if they are trustworthy.

In my area we are lucky--there is a regional chain called Memory Express that builds their own line of "Velocity" desktops and servers, both pre-configured and build-to-order. That is the closest you can come in my area to a "local system builder" that can offer you crapware-free computers. However they do NOT offer build-to-order notebooks--you can choose from Lenovo, Acer, ASUS, MSI and so forth--the one consolation is that their brand selection is very diverse so you can fild one that is relatively crapware-free. However you are still spending extra time shopping, or extra money booking with their service dept. to give it the MemEx version of the "signature treatment".