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Amazon Poised To Get Cut of CA Sales Taxes

theodp writes "Eager to host Amazon warehouses and receive a cut of the tax on sales to customers statewide, the LA Times reports that two California cities are offering Amazon most of the tax money they stand to gain. After agreeing to collect California sales taxes beginning in the fall, Amazon is setting up two fulfillment centers in San Bernadino and Patterson, which will gain not only jobs but also a tax bonanza: Sales to Amazon customers throughout California will be deemed to take place there, so all the sales tax earmarked for local government operations will go to those two cities. The windfall is so lucrative that local officials are preparing to give Amazon the lion's share of their take as a reward for setting up shop there. 'The tax is supposed to be supporting government,' said Lenny Goldberg, executive director of the California Tax Reform Assn., of the proposed sales-tax rebate. 'Instead, it's going back into Amazon's pocket.' Sen. Mark DeSaulnier added: 'It seems like the private sector finds a way to pit one city against the other. You can't give away sales tax in this manner.'"

12 of 295 comments (clear)

  1. recipe for corruption by bigdavex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Special tax deals for individual companies is a recipe for corruption.

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    -Dave
    1. Re:recipe for corruption by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not like a small start-up competitor for Amazon wouldn't get these same tax cuts in these same cities, right? Right? Please tell me I'm right.

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    2. Re:recipe for corruption by N1AK · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A company comes to you and says you can have 5,000 jobs and $20,000,000 as long as you give them $15,000,000 back. That's a tempting offer and you can hardly blame the towns for considering it. Someone comes to you offering 10 jobs and a worn out $5 it's not worth the effort. It's not corruption it's the cost of allowing internal variation in tax and rebates.

  2. If you want to know why your taxes are so high by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you want to know why your taxes are so high you only need to look at the deals which are given to major corporations to attract and retain their business. It's getting to be a bit like CEO compensation packages. Will the best ones make you money - sure. But that money is collected from everyone else - essentially a tax increase on the everyman.

    The fact that governments are pitted against one another just means that the downward spiral will continue, as each locality offers to unlevel the playing field to favor their locality.

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  3. Don't blame Amazon by gstrickler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Blame the design of the tax laws, and the city officials who are willing to give huge tax breaks to major businesses. We see this type of thing all the time in the building of major sports facilities. It's welfare for billionaires.

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    1. Re:Don't blame Amazon by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Its not really though. They will tax the employees. This is how the city makes additional tax revenue. That's what it really all about. Plus all the residual services that new job bring.

      People only bring up the issue at hand, they aren't considering what is really happening.

      It's much the same with the whole X amount of billionaires don't pay any taxes on their income. The news media doesn't report that's because they give 90% of the money to charitable causes, or what not. It's the residual effects of their money that makes the biggest difference, not the fact that they don't pay X amount of taxes.

  4. Re:Yes, you can... by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As far as I can tell, empirically this doesn't really happen: when FAA taxes were suspended for a bit recently, due to a Congressional screw-up when it came to reauthorizing the agency to collect the fees, airlines didn't lower their fares, they just pocketed the savings as higher profit margins.

    Another way of putting it is that profit margins, like almost everything else, aren't completely fixed, so tax hikes and tax cuts don't necessarily get passed through to retail prices, but instead may modulate profit margins (or other things, such as employee pay).

  5. The hidden costs of these deals by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, it sounds like a good deal except that a lot of towns are ignoring the hidden costs of these deals. That huge company is going to require a lot of extra government services in the forms of things like electricity, water and sewer, roads, etc. Plus with the extra people, it's going to require more of things like fire nad police services, welfare benefits, unemployment benefits, public parks, postal services, yadda yadda yadda. What looks like a $5,000,000 bonanza, when all is said and done, ends up costing the taxpayers a crapton of money.

    These deals ought to be illegal, period. Government at all levels, from federal all the way down to local, should be prohibited from making sweetheart deals to one company without making them for all companies. It would have to be a federal law, since there's no way in hell that cities or states would make such laws on their own. That's the only way that the playing field could be leveled for everyone. Maybe now that corporations are "people," some small companies should get together and sue using the Equal Protection Clause, under the theory that government is prohibited from offering Company X a sweetheart deal that Company Y, Company Z, and every other company doesn't have access to. It's a little like selling bus tickets to the Smiths for $2 each and selling the same bus tickets to the Johnsons for $8.

    There is no telling how many trillions of dollars aren't being collected from companies because of deals like this, how much money is being sucked out of local municipalities' and states' coffers and being paid by people who live nowhere near where the money eventually ends up.

    1. Re:The hidden costs of these deals by characterZer0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is a simpler solution. Get rid of property taxes and corporate taxes and tax capital gains as income. This will break the argument that corporations are citizens and make governments pay attention to where the money is coming from - the people.

      --
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    2. Re:The hidden costs of these deals by KingSkippus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's not a cost on the cities/towns that take the deal. They got to negotiate (with the entire state's tax revenue) how much they'll need to make it worth their while. Plus the jobs are always a big plus these days. I highly doubt the little costs you mentioned are going to cause it to be a loss for them.

      I don't agree. Most towns these days are pretty strapped for cash and are cutting WAY back on basic infrastructure services. In my city, we've had budget shortfalls in the millions for years, and debacle after debacle of basic infrastructure failures because there's just not enough money to go around. Yet when I turn on the news, I'm hearing about yet another sweetheart deal that the city officials have made with some business to get them to come here. I can't help but think that we're just a few more sweetheart deals away from being completely bankrupt. (And indeed, many cities and counties around the country really are literally bankrupt.)

      This also neglects an issue that the OP mentioned above: corruption. I also can't help but think--and this has been proven in a court of law in a few cases--that the city officials who are making these sweetheart deals are getting kickbacks for them. In those cases, it's not just entirely possible, but I'd argue that it's probable that they're not negotiating in good faith for the city's best interest, that the costs I mentioned really will result in a net loss for the city.

  6. nothing new by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Informative

    They report on this like it was a new thing, just invented for amazon. It's not. Whenever a large employer has plans to move into a region they negotiate with several potential local governments to find themselves the best deal. In some cases one city might have an advantage like a rail line or a port, and can offer less of a deal, while another may have negatives... poor roads, bad zoning, etc... and they need to offer a lot more.

    My father was VP of a company for years and they set up several factories. The local governments would give them free water, electricity, sewage, etc... You may think that's just a give-away by the city, but what the city would get in return is 1000-2000 employees all paying income taxes... Those same employees would then spend the money they earned, usually in town, and generate sales taxes. The money they spent would bring in other smaller businesses that wouldn't get the same breaks as the larger employer. By far the city profited more from the deal than they lost. That was the point of the deal.

  7. Corporatism at its finest by J'raxis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hope all you people who were whining about Internet retails back when they were untaxed, not "paying their fair share" and having an "unfair advantage" over brick and mortar stores, are happy with the results. Now one of the retailers turns around and buys privilege from the government, actually benefiting from these taxes.

    I'd write more, but I'm laughing too hard. :)