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SCOTUS Refuses To Hear Tenenbaum Appeal
quantr writes "The Supreme Court has declined to hear Joel Tenenbaum's appeal. A jury in 2009 ordered Tenenbaum, of Providence, R.I., to pay $675,000 for illegally downloading and sharing 30 songs. A federal judge called the penalty constitutionally excessive, but the 1st U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reinstated it at the request of the Recording Industry Association of America. Tenenbaum's attorney, Harvard law professor Charles Nesson, said he's disappointed the high court won't hear the case. But he said the 1st Circuit instructed a judge to consider reducing the award without deciding any constitutional challenge. Nesson said 'Tenenbaum is just entering the job market and can't pay the penalty.'"
They have failed us more so than the other branches of government. They should protect us from unreasonable laws, judgements and crimes. But they are now a rubber stamp for abuse. Sure, they throw us a bone every now an then (cops can't throw a GPS on your car anytime the feel like it), but for the most part, they confirm the abuse of the constitution and the ongoing pillaging of this country by the special interests with deep pockets.
Owing ~$700,000 is like a life sentence of servitude towards RIAA and its CEO/managers.
It will take the rest of this man's life to earn the money & pay it off. And slaves have a right to terminate their masters in order to regain their natural right to freedom. IMHO. "From time to time the Tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is freedom's natural fertilizer." - Thomas Jefferson
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Umm, that's not how lobbying (or kickbacks) works. Lobbyists work *for* the RIAA, so they are the ones who will now give the kickbacks to the judges deciding in their favor ;)
'Tenenbaum is just entering the job market and can't pay the penalty.'
That's what garnishments-for-life are for. Talk to some divorced fathers.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Looking for facts on the original infractions, I googled and found this. An excerpt:
Suing Tenenbaum were Sony Corp. (6758) and its Arista Records, Warner Music Group’s Warner Bros. and Atlantic labels and Vivendi SA’s (VIV) Universal Music Group. They said he made songs available on various sites including Napster, Morpheus, Kazaa and LimeWire, distributing songs to millions of other people. He continued after being sent a letter from the record companies, and blamed sisters, houseguests and even burglars, the companies said.
“Tenenbaum undertook these actions even though he was fully aware that they were illegal,” the record companies said. “In fact, his own father warned him that individuals were being sued for such conduct but he did not stop.”
Yes, lots of other G7 countries where the same RIAA/MPAA companies and their subsidiaries also exist.
There, fixed that for y- wait, nevermind....
The Congress shall have Power ... To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries. ------Article I, Section 8, Clause 8
What is exactly is there to listen to when the Constitution makes it clear Congress has the power to enforce copyright?
That fine is way out of line from what a person could ever pay back. I can't even save enough for my 3 kids to go to college let alone 675,000. I can understand they would want some amount of penalty but that is way out of line. Hmmm.... I wonder how much the judges get every year salary. Maybe that is the disconnect. They think the person can just save for 5 years and pay it back. We need a part of the government that is working for the people to look for punishments that are way out of line for the crime. Why don't we have a part of government that does this? They would have to not be allowed to accept third party donations of any kind. Congress is supposed to be doing this job but based on verdicts like this it is obvious they are failing us.
In what way is distributing unauthorized copies the same as stealing a CD? In no way.
*(Barclay Brothers, Murdochs, Rothermeres.)
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
That's what there is to listen to. Unless you're arguing that the Copyright Clause supercedes the Bill of Rights. In that case, why should the 5th and 6th amendments apply either? Are you sure you want to go down this road?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Tenenbaum is just entering the job market and can't pay the penalty
Surely he has organs he could sell.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
At least in Arizona, a divorced woman over 50 can get "spousal maintenance" for the rest of her life, not revisable due to circumstances (e.g. unemployment of the ex-husband, including retirement or disability.) Which might explain some of the 70-something greeters at Wal-Mart.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
As a matter of good policy, copyright shouldn't necessarily be abolished, as that is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Rather, copyright should be retooled to define it as a protection against plagiarism, rather than a guarantee of profits. If I came up with something unique and original, and you went around presenting it as your own work regardless of whether you were charging for it or not, that would be dishonest and fraudulent and without copyright laws, perfectly legal.
But yes, the constitutional issue at hand is the excessive fine, not the sharing itself. And it is unfortunate the supreme court declined to hear the appeal.
Let's ask for damages SO HIGH that he won't EVER be able to legitimately purchase from us for AS LONG AS HE LIVES!
Shit, Mom was right! I'm the smartest muthafocka in all of Los Angeles!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Seeing as how the value was placed on the content that was distributed, all he has to do is make a material trade of something of similar value. Create 30 original recordings that have not been distributed to anyone at all and hand them over as fair trade value. As these are original and have not been distributed at all they would actually have higher value thant he songs he was found to have distributed as those songs were already available to many people.
Which is an idiotic procedure. We know this guy is factually guilty. A new trial will find him guilty. Since damages are prescribed by statute, he'll get the exact same unconstitutional verdict as before.
The remitteur process accomplishes exactly nothing in this situation. All the justices are doing here is looking for an excuse not to enforce the constitution.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Legal judgements *cannot* be discharged in bankruptcy, not even if the judge wanted to. You are legally obligated to pay the judgement, or face contempt charges if you do not. So, yes - it's slavery; this young man's life is over.
you can't argue that the award was excessive.
Sure you can: if Tenenbaum is unable to escape this through bankruptcy, he will basically become an indentured servant, forced to work for decades to repay this debt. That is excessive -- it is decades of his life where his ability to be self directed will be negatively impacted, where he may have trouble affording food because he must make payments, where he may be forced to choose between feeding his children and paying the RIAA (and perhaps even forced to choose between having children or paying the RIAA), etc.
Palm trees and 8
Why can't you afford college? It's about $60,000 per kid at a state school, or $180,000 for all three. I was able to save $180,000 in just 4 years. No reason you can't do the same over 20.
In terms of cars $180,000 == 9 cars. So stop buying cars every 3-4 years and stash that money away in the bank. Then cancel your cable TV (it's trash) and your unlimited cellphone calling (luxury not necessity). That's $2000 saved per year, or $40,000 from baby kid to college-aged kid.
Cut corners other places like buying the smaller home for $150,000 instead of $250,000. Buy a $350 refrigerator instead of the $1500 stainless steel beauty, and same with washers and dryers and other appliances. And on and on.
As someone earning $60k a year before taxes (which I understand to be an above median amount), I've never owned a new car, I don't have cable TV, I'm still using the first cell phone I ever purchased, and my home was $120k. You are suggesting saving (assuming a biweekly paycheck) $1730 a paycheck, I think after taxes and everything I'm clearing just a few more dollars than that. I just had my first kid and the amount I can save has gone down to $50 a paycheck now. I cannot imagine how much extra 2 more kids would cost me. I think you may have a bit of a disconnect on the average persons earning power.
...you expect us to feel bad for Sony, the company that knowingly sent malware to its customers? You expect us to feel bad for any of the recording industry companies, who do everything they can to deny payment to the artists whose music they distribute?
Maybe you have not noticed, but he was a college student who downloaded some music. You expect us not to have sympathy for him? He is starting out in life with as much debt as someone who bought three houses, and that is for sharing just a few hours of music. He is an indentured servant, he will be forced to work for decades to pay the RIAA, even though the RIAA has since come to admit that these tactics do absolutely nothing to help their business or to stop people from downloading music.
Then again, you are posting anonymously and in support of the attack on Tenanbaum's life. The RIAA is not above hiring shills...
Palm trees and 8
"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
No kidding.
Lets do a little math. According to Florida statues (random state for the purposes of argument), fines are roughly equivalent at a rate of 1 year/$10,000 (averaged various penalties). That is to say that in the state of Florida, you can be sentenced to either a year in jail, or a $10,000 dollar fine on average, based on the crime. The other common sentencing standard is $500, or two months, but lets stick to years.
http://www.crimeandpunishment.net/FL/chart.html
Tenenbaum was fined $675,000. Using the standards that Florida uses, he was just given the fine equivalent of 67.5 YEARS IN JAIL........for copyright infringement.
I most certainly agree that the fine is in violation of Tenenbaum's rights as set forth in the Bill of Rights. His lawyers shouldn't be arguing anything else.
No, its called bribery. I know you were joking but these people are screwing all of us over money & power.
Geez, you make it sound as if there's something wrong about using vast amounts of wealth to rule a nation by proxy...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Exactly. More proof that juries composed of random morons off the street (after the lawyers have kicked out everyone with half a brain) are bullshit and don't work. We'd be better off without them, and moving to the semi-professional jurors like they have in Europe.
Music is neither Science, nor is it useful. Are you sure you weren't looking for a different passage?
On the contrary, music is science. Or, was, under the definition of the term "science" in use when the Constitution was drafted. From the Latin "scientia" or "knowledge, "science" included any literary or artistic works by authors, in contrast to the "useful arts" which included utilitarian constructions by inventors.
Even when they are properly impartial, they are manipulated into not considering circumstances, only "The Law". It says the proposed damages/conviction/sentence or whatever the case may be, are valid.
I sure wouldn't want a panel of righteous prigs deciding my fate, either. (There's of course that involved too in reality)
> I don't think you understant what the word useful can mean. Music has a use. It can be used to provide enjoyment.
So why would the founders say "useful Arts" rather than just "Arts"? Because, of course, they never had any intention allowing the government to do anything more than promote innovation of things useful to the nation as a whole, like the cotton gin and motor car.
"Science", as it was used at the time of the Constitution, meant any literary, scientific, or artistic work. It was in contradistinction to the "useful arts," which were practical inventions. And if you think the founders "never had any intention of allowing the government" to protect copyright, then why was one of the first acts they passed the Copyright Act of 1789, only two years after the Constitution was signed?
We're talking about proportions here. The court has traditionally held that over 10x actual damages is unconstitutional. The Tenenbaum verdict is more like 10,000x actual damages.
Not really. We're not talking about damages because he didn't purchase those songs on iTunes for a dollar each... We're talking about damages because he uploaded those songs. Apple pays a lot more than a dollar for the rights to distribute. In fact, some years back, Michael Jackson bought the rights to distribute 4,000 Beatles songs. Did he pay $4,000? No, try $47.5 million. The $22,500 per song for Tenenbaum's infringement of the distribution right is pretty reasonable in view of that.
Maybe at the point that people actually start leaving over stuff like this, or even bother to do something less drastic, such as vote against it. We are not at that point, yet. In 2012 we will probably vote for the same people to stay in Congress, who created the silly statutory penalties. America is approximately 100% in favor of the judgement amount, and we will prove it in November when we re-elect those people.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
I know, I'm midway between Funny and Troll but play with this one.
(Daydreaming)
"Dear Jury. When you render this verdict, you place yourselves and your own computers on automatic trial as a re-suit for copyright infringement. So decide what penalty YOU would pay should you happen to have ANY copyrighted work on your computers."
What a fun legal principle. All this BS "It's Not Me" crap would go away. Because the jurors have 52 of their own songs each on their computers.
(/Daydreaming)
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I'm sorry but this is NOT insightful, because to "vote against it" one has to actually have someone to vote for that IS against it. As we have seen again and again BOTH the Ds and Rs are as corrupt as they come and our system is designed to make sure third parties have less of a chance on the national stage than a snowball in hell.
In my own state we had a choice in the general election of a DINO that kissed corporate ass or a RINO that kissed corporate ass, and the primaries were the same, a handful of asskissers in training. tell me friend how EXACTLY can one "vote against it" when your choices are "Check this box to vote for el presidente" and "Show the world how mad you are by...voting for el presidente!". Because if you think either the Ds or Rs give a rat's ass about anyone who can't write 6 figure checks I have a bridge you might be interested in.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.