SpaceX's Falcon 9 Successfully Reaches Orbit

Congratulations by AikonMGB · 2012-05-22 00:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

Congratulations, SpaceX; this is a turning point in our space age =)

Re:Congratulations by localman57 · 2012-05-22 01:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

Congrads indeed... finally we are at the point where NASA was in the 1960's!
And leaps and bounds above where we were yesterday. You fail to factor cost into your evaluation. In the 1960's low earth orbit was about developing the science to make it possible. Today, it's about developing the engineering to make it practical.
Re:Congratulations by h4rr4r · 2012-05-22 01:23 · Score: 4, Insightful

NASA launches are already done by Boeing. Why would a different vendor change anything?
This means NASA will get more launches for their budget, if they get anymore cuts they have to have SpaceX just to survive.
Re:Congratulations by Baloroth · 2012-05-22 02:00 · Score: 5, Insightful

Am I the only one who doesn't see this as a positive thing? Privatization will only provide an excuse to cut the NASA budget even more. And NASA is already outsourced to the gills as it is. And it could set the stage for the government bailing on space research and exploration altogether (and no private company is going to pick up the slack on projects with no profit behind them).
How is the ability to get to space cheaper and more efficiently a bad thing? For NASA or anyone else. There is zero reason to "slash" NASA's budget because of this: they are already working closely with SpaceX anyways, and will be commissioning them to launch flights. NASA runs the experiments and bigger scientific projects, like Mars rover missions and whatnot. The ability for them to get their projects into space cheaper can only be a good thing.
Really, if the government wanted to bail on space research they already could have. The DoD already has its rockets, the EU and Russia have theirs, really research is the only reason NASA exists anyways and is why they have existed for 20 years or so. This only helps that, by making the cost-to-orbit cheaper.

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Re:Congratulations by caseih · 2012-05-22 02:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

You're right. A whole bunch of pork-barrel Republicans also see this as negative. I remember the sarcastic comments Republican congressmen made last test flight when they said, "congratulations to Space-X for doing what NASA did 50 years ago." Such ironic comments given Republicans' supposed private enterprise leanings, but easy to understand when you realize that NASA funding traditionally hasn't been about exciting science so much as a means of funneling large amounts of corporate welfare back into the home states of congressmen.
And really if you look back on the last 30 years of the space age, a lot has been accomplished by NASA. But almost all of the exciting science did not involve NASA's crown jewel space flight vehicles such as the Shuttle or Saturn 5 at all, but rather remote probes to the outer solar system, Mercury, Mars, Venus, and of course Earth, almost all launched on privately-made (though some designed with NASA's help) rockets like the Atlas, Delta, and so forth. Hubble is the one example I can I think of a scientific triumph that involved the Space Shuttle. Though with the money spent on the shuttle flights to fix and upgrade Hubble, I think they could have built and launched a couple of hubbles. I also think the Space Station is a success, and really was the purpose for which the Shuttle was built. However design by committee to do too many other things poorly means the Shuttle and the Space Station have cost orders of magnitude more than they should have. Had NASA developed a heavy lift rocket along the lines of the Saturn 5 I think the space station could have been lifted and built much more cheaply, and we probably would not have had a gap in manned flight that we now have.
The Space Shuttle was a fantastic vehicle, and a historic one, but it didn't do any of what it was designed to do that well, at least as far as economics go. Now that the program has ended and we can look back on it, we can safely say that from a program goals and outcomes point of view, the Shuttle was a costly lesson.
As for private rockets, as the other poster said, all rockets have always been developed under contract with NASA by private companies. As was said, Boeing has built a lot of rockets used to launch satellites over the years. The difference here is that NASA is only contracting the end result with Space-X (rocket launches). They did not have a hand in the rocket's design. This is a good thing I think. Space-X is still being held to NASA's strict standards for testing and reliability, but they aren't influenced by pork-barrel spending requirements, or being forced to design it a certain way (say with a solid rocket first stage). This is a very good thing and I hope it starts to spell the end of using NASA by Congress as simply a means of funneling tax dollars to specific subcontractors in specific states. Another real difference here is that Space-X is among the first companies thinking to build man-rated rockets, and feeling like they can do it economically and for less cost than the Russians, and certainly several orders of magnitude cheaper and more efficiently than NASA's own post-shuttle designs.
Re:Congratulations by Brannoncyll · 2012-05-22 03:22 · Score: 4, Informative

As for private rockets, as the other poster said, all rockets have always been developed under contract with NASA by private companies.
Just as a clarification, the Ariane rockets in Europe are arguably the most successful rockets, launching almost half of all the commercial satellites. These have been developed by a private company, EADS Astrium (a subsidiary of EADS, a big aerospace and defence contractor) since the 1980s and produced/operated by another private company, Arianespace. The latter appears to be jointly controlled (in terms of shares) by EADS and the French space agency, CNES, so it might be considered as semi-private, but EADS is certainly a public company.
Re:Congratulations by sneakyimp · 2012-05-22 03:33 · Score: 4, Informative

Read this page on the SpaceX site, especially this part:

As noted last month by a Chinese government official, SpaceX currently has the best launch prices in the world and they don’t believe they can beat them. This is a clear case of American innovation trumping lower overseas labor rates.
and this part:

If there are cost overruns, SpaceX will cover the difference. (This concept may be foreign to some traditional government space contractors that seem to believe that cost overruns should be the responsibility of the taxpayer.)
The business-as-usual approach where the government hands NASA gobs of money so that NASA can in turn pay Boeing all the money they ask for is affected by SpaceX. It is my hope (and Musk's stated goal) to maintain low fixed costs for launches. If SpaceX delivers on this promise, that will mean that we can still maintain a presence in space for less money. Another thing to note: SpaceX is in California. I'd be willing to bet that Florida and Texas republicans will still want their pork projects for all the aerospace companies working out of Texas and Florida. Also, there's always the sacred cow of defense spending. Remember the X37-B? I'd be willing to bet more money gets spent on that in the future.
Re:Congratulations by DesScorp · 2012-05-22 04:58 · Score: 4, Insightful

As for private rockets, as the other poster said, all rockets have always been developed under contract with NASA by private companies.
Just as a clarification, the Ariane rockets in Europe are arguably the most successful rockets, launching almost half of all the commercial satellites. These have been developed by a private company, EADS Astrium (a subsidiary of EADS, a big aerospace and defence contractor) since the 1980s and produced/operated by another private company, Arianespace. The latter appears to be jointly controlled (in terms of shares) by EADS and the French space agency, CNES, so it might be considered as semi-private, but EADS is certainly a public company.
Not the same thing as Space X. These companies were created directly by European governments, often out of the remains of European government owned defense companies, many of them nationalized. Saying these companies are corporations is like saying that the US Postal Service is a corporation; technically true, but missing the forest for the trees. They were created specifically to serve their governments. Any private sector business is the cherry on top of the ice cream. Space X, on the other hand, was a private company from the ground up, specifically created for a perceived private space transportation market, the aim being to make a profit off of it for private investors. Government contracts will be part of that, but the aim of this company is to be the premier provider of space launch to private companies. NASA, for all the good it has done over the years, has been suppressing that private market. A company like Space X is long overdue.

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Re:Congratulations by quacking+duck · 2012-05-22 05:14 · Score: 4, Informative

Another thing to note: SpaceX is in California. I'd be willing to bet that Florida and Texas republicans will still want their pork projects for all the aerospace companies working out of Texas and Florida.
Not to defend pork spending, but Florida does have one huge advantage over California: it's the most south-eastern point in the US, and launching eastward from there gives any craft a free speed boost going into orbit. Any eastern state could do the same, but the further south you are, the more orbit options you have. I don't know where SpaceX's rocket parts are made (is it actually California, or is that just their HQ?), but obviously the further away this is from the launch site, the more costly the transportation.
There's no technical reason you couldn't launch eastward from California, except you'd be launching over land, and populated areas. For jettisoning booster stages (or falling debris from a failed launch), this is a bad idea.
Re:Congratulations by sneakyimp · 2012-05-22 05:55 · Score: 4, Informative

You make good points. Yes 28.5 degrees North and launching eastward gives a substantial boost to any rockets launched and so Florida and/or Texas will likely stay in the picture as launching point. I'd be willing to bet that NASA gave SpaceX the equivalent of free rent at the launch facilities (which are probably maintained by other contractors on NASA's behalf). The SpaceX information on the Falcon Heavy all list an 'inclination' of 28.5 degrees so I am guessing the assumption is all launches will happen from Kennedy in FL.
I watched a video on Elon Musk which stated that raw materials come in to the factory in Hawthorne, CA and rocket parts come out the other side. I believe most of their 1500+ employees are in CA (awesome vid of them cheering the launch here). Hawthorne is about a mile from LAX and they can probably just take the parts over to LAX and put them on a big transport and fly them. I'd be willing to bet that transport costs are but a tiny tiny fraction of the human resource cost of the project. Los Angeles has tremendous assets for this sort of work -- there's a hi-tech corridor around Glendale/Burbank with all kinds of operations. There's an enormous talent pool of skilled workers, access to sea, air, and land shipping, etc. Boeing's a little different but most of their employees are on the West Coast. Lockheed also has a lot of facilities in Cailfornia. As does Raytheon. If you want to hire talented and experienced engineers and rocket scientists (and support staff), there are a ton of them around Los Angeles.

Welcome back to Space, America! by localman57 · 2012-05-22 00:38 · Score: 4, Insightful

Yeah, it's still a little while until we get people up there in one of those things, but it's gonna happen. We're back, baby! Congrats to the Space X team!

Re:Welcome back to Space, America! by localman57 · 2012-05-22 01:31 · Score: 4, Insightful

Bullshit. In the 20th century, the American Government put rockets into space. In the 21st century, Americans will put rocket into space. Granted, SpaceX's first client happens to to be the government. But there will be other clients as well. Then, eventually, we'll have companies show up who's first client isn't the government. That's a whole new world.
Re:Welcome back to Space, America! by Alioth · 2012-05-22 03:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

We're back, baby!
No offense, but we're not even back to 1969.
No, we're further along.
Saying "we're not even back to 1969" is like saying "We're still only at 1959" at news about the Boeing 787 Dreamliner. Sure, the 787 does pretty much the same thing as the original Boeing 707, but it moves more stuff for less money, and is a lot less expensive to maintain and a lot more refined. SpaceX's launcher is less expensive to maintain, moves stuff for less money and is more refined than what we had prior to 1969.
And SpaceX also cuts out the pork barrel spending, since SpaceX did all the specifications to make a space vehicle, not specifications to distribute work to various contractors in various politically favorable states, making things still more efficient.

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Re:Welcome back to Space, America! by tp1024 · 2012-05-22 04:28 · Score: 4, Informative

Apollo, at its very peak (in terms of cost) in 1968, cost 4.8% of the US government budget. Which itself is only a fraction of the US GDP.

More info and video by daveschroeder · 2012-05-22 00:41 · Score: 4, Informative

SpaceX Launches Private Capsule on Historic Trip to Space Station

And don't forget the Space Launch System (SLS), which is the next iteration of (government operated) US human spaceflight.

Re:More info and video by h4rr4r · 2012-05-22 00:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

By next iteration you mean next pork barrel spending project?
That thing is designed for only one purpose, to keep the shuttle parts suppliers in business.
Humans will be flown on Falcon 9s and possibly Falcon XXs before the SLS even manages to go over budget.
Re:More info and video by Nebulious · 2012-05-22 00:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

SLS is joke. It's a rocket designed by congress. The design is intended to keep as many existing Space Shuttle Factories open as possible. The new components it does need get their contracts delivered right to the usual industry giants on a silver platter.
Re:More info and video by localman57 · 2012-05-22 01:14 · Score: 4, Insightful

The space shuttle was a flying dump truck. The most awesomest dump truck ever, but still a dump truck. Falcon 9 is a flying dump truck. Just as there's no reason in the current age for the government to produce dump trucks, we're reaching the point where there's no reason for the government to produce a low-earth orbit vehicle.

Going to Mars, exploring asteroids, and other new ventures should now get NASA's focus. Those require the development of new ideas and science, and don't have a clear viable business plan to support private development of a turnkey solution.
Re:More info and video by daveschroeder · 2012-05-22 01:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

So do you think the United States should divest itself of government-operated space launch capability? Should the lessons learned, capabilities gained, infrastructure created, and accomplishments of the last over-30 years be abandoned because the legislative, acquisition, and contracting landscape for government space operations isn't perfect? The "industry giants" in government space operations became "giants" for a reason.
SpaceX has shown that private enterprise has a place alongside government, but SpaceX isn't doesn't operate in a vacuum (pun intended!). Every launch on the SpaceX manifest through 2017 is happening via a US government launch complex, and for good reason. Just because existing space contractors benefit from SLS, it doesn't automatically follow that it's the "wrong way" to do things.
Space exploration is a key asset which serves to invigorate the national spirit, and government and private enterprise both have a significant place in the future of US space operations.
Re:More info and video by taiwanjohn · 2012-05-22 02:53 · Score: 4, Informative

Funny Elon Musk quote: "I think it'd be cool to be born on Earth and die on Mars. Just, hopefully, not at the point of impact."
It's near the end of this video.

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Re:More info and video by tibit · 2012-05-22 02:56 · Score: 4, Informative

Dave, honey, the would-be SLS service tower cost about as much as the entire Falcon 1 and most of Falcon 9 development program. $500M. The government is absolutely, completely over-the-top with their spending. You have no sense of scale whatsoever.

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Re:More info and video by Guspaz · 2012-05-22 03:42 · Score: 4, Interesting

The SLS is estimated to cost $41 billion for R&D and four launches, and is expected to have a cost-to-leo of $8500 per pound. SpaceX is claiming that the R&D on their Falcon Heavy will be ~$2.5 billion, and they'll have a cost-to-leo of $500-1000 (with the lower figure depending on them getting stage recovery working).
Why does the SLS need to exist? It won't be able to do anything that projected private sector products won't be able to do for a fraction of the cost.
Let me put it in perspective: the Falcon Heavy is projected to put cargo into orbit for 3% of the cost of the shuttle (~1/30th the cost).
Re:More info and video by jnaujok · 2012-05-22 04:19 · Score: 4, Interesting

Just to be pedantic -- Elon Musk has said he could design the Falcon XX for $2.5B. Bigelow Aerospace can put up a "Mars Mission" space station using BA-300's for less than a Billion dollars more. Assuming six launches of the Falcon XX to put those six BA-300 segments into an interplanetary transfer orbit at $150M each (SpaceX's estimated cost per flight of the XX) and you have a total of right around $4.5B. Now, Apple has a warchest of $80B in cash, so Apple could launch not one, but about 30 missions to Mars and remain solvent.

Whether they'd get a return on their investment is a tough question, since I'm not sure whether FoxConn will set up slave labor camps on Mars to make iPads or not.

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Note to North Korea... by biometrizilla · 2012-05-22 00:43 · Score: 5, Funny

"Now THAT's how you put a satellite into orbit!", signed Elon Musk.

Ref: "giant load off his back" by Cragen · 2012-05-22 00:50 · Score: 4, Funny

Oh, NO! That "giant load off his back" means he's experiencing weightlessness which means he stowed away on the capssule! Abort! Abort! (Grats!)

Re:Ref: "giant load off his back" by Vulch · 2012-05-22 01:48 · Score: 5, Funny

It's rumoured that several items on the countdown checklist involve confirming the actual whereabouts of Elon Musk...

Video of the launch by Solozerk · 2012-05-22 00:52 · Score: 5, Informative

A HD video of the launch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQNJG8MPcIc
SpaceX always releases amazing videos of their launch :-) in this one there's even a camera to watch the solar array deploying in orbit.

Re:Video of the launch by hey · 2012-05-22 01:54 · Score: 4, Interesting

Nice to hear they are all metric.

Man rating of Dragon and Falcon by scharkalvin · 2012-05-22 01:05 · Score: 4, Interesting

It may be possible to certify the man rating of the Dragon spacecraft before the Falcon launch rocket. So the Dragon may be able to return astronaughts to earth FROM the ISS before it is used to bring them up there (since no ride on the rocket would be required if the Dragon is sent up empty).

Re:Man rating of Dragon and Falcon by Megane · 2012-05-22 01:52 · Score: 4, Informative

That's an interesting idea, but there is no need for it. Once a Soyuz is up, it doesn't cost any more to get down. Even the custom-fitted Soyuz seat is needed for the ride up. One of the rules on ISS is that every crew member has to have a seat on an escape vehicle, so the Soyuz that they rode up on stays docked. Even crew that was brought up on Shuttle and left behind on ISS had a Soyuz seat ready, because the shuttle took someone else back to free up that seat. And there's no other way up right now, so everybody has a Soyuz seat ready.
On the other hand, this will mean that we will now have a decent downmass capability. Soyuz had very limited downmass, and theoretically you could put cargo return capability on a Progress, but nobody did it, because it was cheaper to just let the "trash" burn up. Now they can afford to return stuff that wasn't worth returning before, allowing more reuse and analysis of what had to be classified as "trash" before.
In the end, the one thing the Shuttle could do that Crew Dragon or Falcon Heavy won't ever be able to do is return full-size modules. It will only be able to return what you can stuff through the hatch, but that's not too bad of a limitation.

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Re:USA rocks by localman57 · 2012-05-22 01:05 · Score: 5, Interesting

Well, come on over, then. We need more people with a can-do attitude. Visa applications are avaialble at your local embassy...

For those who don't know, Elon Musk was born in South Africa, and left to avoid Military Service in the 80's (which propped up the Apartheid government). He came over here, built paypal into a powerhouse (thorugh a merger, he didn't found it), founded Tesla motors, and he built a rocketship. Hell yeah.

IPO by vlm · 2012-05-22 01:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

1) screw the FB IPO thats a pump and dump scheme of the largest scale. I want to buy shares in spacex, they're actually doing something interesting, valuable, and apparently profitable. Which is probably why they're staying out of the stock market (the old saying, bad money always drives out good money...)

2) I wanted to ask for a spacex tee shirt for fathers day, but all I can find is a couple IP violators, people ripping off newswire photographers, that kind of product. Their might be "real" shirts out there... where? I would think a tastefully done black tee shirt sold directly by spacex to wealthy /.ers could be a significant funding source for their operation. Well, honestly all it would probably pay for is free donuts and coffee on Friday, but I'd feel cool contributing to that too.

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"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger

Re:RSA rocks by Infiniti2000 · 2012-05-22 01:19 · Score: 5, Insightful

Thanks to a South African entrepreneur.

Which is just fine by us. We're supposed to be a melting pot. It only makes the case stronger with immigrants succeed so well in the U.S.

Re:USA rocks by Ihmhi · 2012-05-22 01:43 · Score: 4, Funny

For those who don't know, Elon Musk was born in South Africa, and left to avoid Military Service in the 80's (which propped up the Apartheid government). He came over here, built paypal into a powerhouse (thorugh a merger, he didn't found it), founded Tesla motors, and he built a rocketship. Hell yeah.

Oh yeah? Well this morning, I played the Torchlight 2 beta and got an Engineer all the way to Level 12! And then I'm going to the dentist in an hour!

Man, fuck those guys that put my life into perspective. ):

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Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)

Re:RSA rocks by smpoole7 · 2012-05-22 01:59 · Score: 5, Interesting

> Thanks to a South African entrepreneur

No, thanks to an AMERICAN. He immigrated here, accepted citizenship and is now an American. I welcome people like him. If he ever shows up at my doorstep, I'm grilling burgers for him -- anyway he likes. :)

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Cogito, igitur comedam pizza.

Re:Welcome back to space? by h4rr4r · 2012-05-22 02:15 · Score: 4, Funny

It might meet their safety rating, but it does not even make it to LEO. If you want to launch people into the Sea of Japan, it would be cheaper to use a catapult.

That's one way to look at it by brokeninside · 2012-05-22 02:31 · Score: 5, Interesting

Another way to look at it is that once manned space flight is a reality for private firms, the resulting complications that arise from conflicting interests will result in NASA being re-engineered at least in part as a law enforcement agency. And, once that happens, they will be in a veritable arms race with private concerns. That will drive all sorts of new research and development.

Re:Awesome but... by CrimsonAvenger · 2012-05-22 02:55 · Score: 4, Informative

Why does it take three friggin' days to dock with the ISS? I never quite understood why it takes so long to do that sort of thing? Seems to me that orbital mechanics is well understood and computer processing speeds are fast enough to handle navigation with maneuvering thrusters.

Well, one reason is that matcing orbit quickly requires more deltaV than they're willing or able to spend.

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"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

A Moment of Silence and Respect please... by JSC · 2012-05-22 03:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

According the The Reg, James Doohan's ashes are aboard. Boldly go, Scotty. We miss you

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Time's fun when you're having flies. - Kermit the Frog

Re:RSA rocks by taiwanjohn · 2012-05-22 03:01 · Score: 4, Informative

Ironically, his family came from America. He's named after his grandfather Elon, who lived in Minnesota.

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Immigration rocks by INowRegretThesePosts · 2012-05-22 03:10 · Score: 4, Interesting

Which is just fine by us. We're supposed to be a melting pot. It only makes the case stronger with immigrants succeed so well in the U.S.

The US should vastly increase legal immigration. The anti-immigrant attitude is based largely on the idea that "immigrants take our jobs" which, in my arrogant opinion, is outrageously idiotic. Each immigrant does take a job, but he also creates wealth and spends money on the American economy, thus creating additional jobs. And if immigrants did increase unemployment, then additional Americans (USA-born) would increase unemployment by the same logic. Therefore the greater the population the bigger would be unemployment. Therefore tiny island countries would be unemployment-free worker paradises, which AFAIK does not happen.

And even if the immigrant sends money to his family overseas, those dollars will eventually be used to buy American goods, thus increasing exports.

Increasing legal immigration, would reduce ethic tension, illegal immigration, crime and tax evasion, thus benefiting the USA. It would also benefit immigrants, who just want a nice honest job.

Can anyone explain to me how immigration harms America?

This Is Awesome by jdev · 2012-05-22 03:25 · Score: 4, Insightful

This is a fantastic thing. Take a look at NASA's goal.

To reach for new heights and reveal the unknown so that what we do and learn will benefit all humankind.

Being the tow trucks to space has very little to do with that. NASA has done that for more than half a century now and I'm personally very happy to offload that responsibility to private entities.

So what does this mean for NASA now? I'd say it clears up their responsibilities for space exploration. More rovers. More probes. And if we can justify it, more manned space flights. If private entities can handle sending things up to orbit, then I see that as a good thing.

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SpaceX's Falcon 9 Successfully Reaches Orbit

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