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Ask Slashdot: How To Shop For a Laptop?

Posted by Soulskill on from the compare-and-contrast dept.

jakooistra writes "My sister recently asked me for a laptop recommendation. I said, 'Sure, what are techie brothers for,' and diligently started my search for her perfect laptop. Two days later, I feel like I've aged two years. Every laptop vendor seems to want to sell a dozen different, poorly-differentiated models, with no real way of finding out what is customizable without following each model to its own customization page. And there are so many vendors! How am I, as a consumer, supposed to find what I need? Is there a website, hiding somewhere I just can't find, that tracks all the multivariate versions and upgrade choices in an easily searchable database?" jakooistra adds a few criteria, in case you have specific laptop suggestions: "It needs a good CPU, but we almost don't care about the GPU (HD 3000 graphics are acceptable). A model that doesn't get very hot would be nice. We'd like an SSD and an internal optical drive. A 15"-17" screen at 1366x768 or higher would be ideal. Budget is around $1,500, but could go up to $2,000 if it's really worth it."

56 of 732 comments (clear)

  1. Business only! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Do not buy a consumer laptop, make sure you shop around in the Business/Small Business areas of leading manufacturers (HP, Lenovo, Dell).

    1. Re:Business only! by Dan+East · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do not buy a consumer laptop, make sure you shop around in the Business/Small Business areas of leading manufacturers (HP, Lenovo, Dell).

      That's funny, because in a recent Slashdot discussion about laptops the exact opposite was recommended - business grade laptops are typically priced higher for essentially the same hardware you get in the "consumer" grade.

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    2. Re:Business only! by Dan+East · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm actually referencing a slashdot comment from another story. I've gone mad. Oh well.

      http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2861513&cid=40052379

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    3. Re:Business only! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because you are paying for a longer warranty, the manufacturers aren't stupid, they put better parts and have higher QC in the machines with longer warranties.

    4. Re:Business only! by bhtooefr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And the comment you linked to runs contrary to my experience.

      The real business grade laptops - not just from a manufacturer's business line, but the ones that are considered high-end - tend to be built from more durable materials, tend to be designed for easier service, tend to be documented better, and tend to have better support.

      Workstation-class, and one step down as far as position in the model range (which often shares hardware with the workstation class, but often with a dual-core and either integrated graphics or a low-end GPU), tend to count as those.

    5. Re:Business only! by martin-boundary · · Score: 3, Funny

      I only buy Lenovo laptops. Nobody was ever fired for buying Chinese!

    6. Re:Business only! by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I tell people to buy the least expensive acceptable model. Save the $ for the next purchase or else something worthwhile. My reason? Laptops, cheap ones, usually will do everything people want. AND when the crap goes south in a year, after the warranty is gone, you won't be as heart broken as if you spent upwards of $2000 for a really really nice laptop with all the bells and whistles.

      Right now, you can get a Core i3 2.3 Ghz with 4-6 GB ram for about $500-600. Really, what more is a non-techie gonna need? I get people dropbox or box or some other cloud storage for their "stuff", and quite frankly, most people will be just fine with something like that. There are exceptions, but really, most people would be fine with that.

      At that price range, you can buy 3 laptops for the price of the Macs people are recommending above.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    7. Re:Business only! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is a lot to say about this approach. The only extra thing you tend to have to do is to wipe the drive and install a clean OS image (Windows of your particular flavor or Linux). Get rid of the shovelware and weirdo 'utilities' manufacturers still foist on the unsuspecting.

      Most people doing word processing, Internet, an occasional picture or movie don't need anything built in the last half decade. That's why tablets work for a lot of people, horsepower wise.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  2. Just go to store.apple.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Pick MacBook Pro or MacBook Air, then pick a size. Done.

    1. Re:Just go to store.apple.com by jo42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's one thing that all of the other 'tarded manufacturers just cannot get right. Low profit margins? Make more models! Model not selling well? Make more permutations and combinations of the model! Still not selling? Slap on (even) more stickers, make the keyboard glow, add all sorts of other shinny eye candy and faggy arsed shite stuff to it.

    2. Re:Just go to store.apple.com by nine-times · · Score: 3, Informative

      You should also understand that manufacturers *want* to confuse you. They want it to be unclear what the difference is between different models. they want it to be difficult to comparison shop. They want to offer a super-cheap model so that the people who will simply buy the cheapest thing they can will have something to buy, but they don't want you to know what's wrong with their cheapo laptop. They want to offer a super expensive laptop, but they don't want you to know that there's a cheaper laptop available that will still do everything that you want. Instead they want you to buy something more expensive than what you need for fear that you're missing something.

      Essentially, they don't want you to be too informed, because an informed consumer doesn't buy crap that they don't want or need.

    3. Re:Just go to store.apple.com by nine-times · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's marketing.

      You have a bunch of different people buying computers. There's one guy who is just going to buy the cheapest laptop he can, and he's just looking at price. Dell wants him to buy a Dell computer, so they offer a total POS computer at the cheapest price they can muster. Meanwhile, there's a guy who's basically going to buy the most powerful and expensive thing he can find, so Dell is going to offer the highest-end overclocked liquid-cooled tech with a fancy carbon fiber case with lots of blinking lights,all shaped to look like an alien. Right?

      And then you have a whole mess of people in between. You have a lot of people who aren't really sure what they want and need. You have a guy who wants a fairly low-end system, but he wants it to be really lightweight. There's a guy who wants a mid-grade system, but it needs a webcam built in. There's a guy who wants the best thing he can get for $2000k. Then there's a bunch more.

      So what Dell wants to say is, "Whatever it is you want, we have it. Look, we have 30 different laptops, each a little different, and so surely one of them will fit your needs!" But then you go to comparison shop, and it's not even clear what the differences are. They offer helpful little summaries like, "Good for working on the road, telecommuting," on one and "Good to tote back and forth from work, working from remote locations," on another, as though it's helpful. Sometimes the differences are just the cases, which are comparable in size and weight anyway, but Dell will let you upgrade to an SSD in one and not the other.

      So you spot two computers with identical specs in your price range. You can upgrade to 8GB or RAM in this one, but you can't get a webcam. This other one only lets you have a maximum of 4GB of RAM, but you can get a webcam. You need 8GB of RAM and a webcam. Whoops, you have to upgrade to yet another model that supports it all. That'll be $300 more than the others would be with the upgrade. Now could you buy the laptop that Dell is only letting you buy with 4GB of RAM and do an aftermarket upgrade? Maybe. If you can do that, you'll save yourself $300, you'll have to do a lot of research, and if you're wrong you just bought a laptop that doesn't meet your needs.

      Now if Dell didn't want this kind of confusing shopping, they'd seriously simplify their product lineup. But they want it. They don't want you to be very clear about what the differences is between the business laptop and the consumer laptop. The business laptop costs more, and they want to be able to tell businesses, "You need this, for lots of reasons I wont' tell you. But the consumer laptop will be no good for you." It might be because the consumer laptop is completely crappy, but when a consumer shows up to buy that consumer laptop, they still want to be able to say, "Oh, yes, that's a very good choice."

  3. Pink one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Get a pink one. She'll be happy.

    1. Re:Pink one. by kyrio · · Score: 3, Funny

      Now, I want you to imagine that you are a programmer born with lady bits who is reading this thread. How exactly do you feel right now?

      Very happy about my pink laptop.

    2. Re:Pink one. by RedBear · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Get a pink one. She'll be happy.

      You say that to be funny, but in fact that is another of the many reasons that I always just tell people these days to buy a Mac. Since they only make a few different models of laptops and they don't change the form factor sometimes for years, there is an EXTENSIVE amount of really nice after market accessories available for Macs, including hard cases in various colors, tons of different "skins" and some very nice keyboard protector options. Great for protecting the laptop inside and out, and great for those who like to customize what their computer looks like. A few PC manufacturers sell colored laptops, mainly their cheap consumer models, but guess what? It will always be that color. With the cases and skins widely available for Macs, you can change your laptop's looks as often as you want, and keep the thing looking like new for years even in harsh environments like school/college.

      Plus there's the fact that if we can learn to get our damn techie egos out of the way we might realize a couple of things. Firstly, the specs really don't matter much anymore unless you're doing something like hardcore gaming or video processing. Normal people never hit the limits of even low end processors and GPUs these days. Secondly, most non-techie people will actually prefer using Mac OS X, which is yet another reason to get her a Mac.

      I'm glad I'm not the only one anymore who just plain got tired of trying to find a decent PC laptop out of the hundreds being marketed. You go to the Apple store and you just decide how big a screen you want, and whether you want an optical drive. That's pretty much it. No matter how anti-Apple you may be, you do have to wonder why there are so many people besides me who are answering this question with "Just buy a Mac."

      They're damn good computers. Period.

  4. Re:mac by MankyD · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I will say, the one thing Mac has done well is avoiding the exact problem the OP describes. They basically have 2 laptops, with a few different monitor sizes. The specs can vary slightly, but not so much as to make a real difference.

    --
    -dave
    http://millionnumbers.com/ - own the number of your dreams
  5. Step 2: Walk into a store by QuasiSteve · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Step 1 is to figure out what your absolute demands are so as to narrow your choice already. This includes budgeting, what you'll be using the thing for, etc. Sounds like you've already done this.

    Step 2: Walk into a store.
    No, seriously. It's all good and well to spec out a machine on the web and then say "this one's perfect!". But then you get it and... the casing feels weird, the way the keyboard types makes you cringe, the glossy screen you thought would be nice and sharp is really just reflecting the bright windows behind you when you sit at your desk, the backslash is situated next to the shift key, the audio quality can be called poor at best and while you intend to use headphones most of the time it's really just not acceptable, and whenever you glance at something else, you can't help but notice some weird fuzzy...moving..jittery.. things on the screen that you can't quite see when you look straight at it but you swear they're there (and they are - hello, temporal dithering - load up the LCD test webpage if possible if you care about the screen).

    So go to a store and test the machines in person. THEN go back to the internet to find the best deal / customization options if you really want.. or, if you've pretty much found the one you want, get it at the store (yeah, you could save some bucks - but the store did provide you the service of allowing a hands-on.. might as well reward them, within reason).

    Your budget is pretty high for a computer that doesn't need to have much graphical prowess, by the way.

    1. Re:Step 2: Walk into a store by MrQuacker · · Score: 4, Informative

      Fuckery like that is so few stores sell laptops/electronics anymore.

  6. $299.00 by F34nor · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Lenvo B575 with a AMD APU. Does everything I want, cheap enough to throw it out the window if it doesn't.

  7. 768p screen is usually bad by a_ghostwheel · · Score: 4, Informative

    1) If Apple is OK - do consider them. Quality wise not many other notebooks will come close. 2) I suggest looking at screen first and foremost. Vast majority of notebooks have rather bad 768p TN panels. If you will limit your choice to at least 1600x900 or above (assuming 15") choice will become easier since you will look only at few models. And it is still doable within your price range if you stay away from Sony.

  8. For Linux users ZaReason and System76 by gQuigs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    both have nice websites with the obvious base choices for you being:
    https://zareason.com/shop/Strata-6770.html
    Stock at $849
    with a 160GB SSD comes to $1,148

    and for me the winner would be:

    https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/gazp7
    3rd Generation Intel Core i7-3610QM Processor
    Stock at $899
    With 180 GB SSD comes $1178

    Btw, for what you are asking for, your budget seems high actually :).

  9. It's a Lenovo Thinkpad/Apple decision. by sethstorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Select between Lenovo(Thinkpad) and Apple refurbished, then drill down to whatever models fit the criteria. Then do a favor for them and get them to have the longest warranty obtainable. For Lenovo, this would be 5-year(?, maximum may be 4) onsite service. For Apple, whatever Applecare does is going to have to do.

    Either company has some thin and stylish laptops in that price range. Lenovo just happens to make them more maintenance friendly.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  10. Buy a Macbook Pro, even for Windows/Linux by jo_ham · · Score: 4, Informative

    Honestly, for $1500 the Macbook Pro or MBA will suit you very well, even if you don't intend to run OS X. The machines are well built and come with a decent warranty and will last for a long time. They also have pretty high resale value.

    If you want to run Windows or Linux then dual booting is a snap (you can blow away the OS X partition completely if you like).

    If you do go this route though, I advise that you wait until after Apple's WWDC keynote on June 11th - the strong likelihood is that the 2012 versions of the Macbook Pro and Macbook Air will be announced, so even if you want a current 2011 one, if you wait you can either get a new one for the same price, or a 2011 for a discount.

    1. Re:Buy a Macbook Pro, even for Windows/Linux by jo_ham · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Does that "same" hardware also include the case and screen? That's one (not the only) reason they cost more.

      How much for a Windows laptop with an all-metal case? Or at the very least, one that equally as rugged as the Macbook Pro (although I guess if it's plastic it's going to be bigger and bulkier to get the same ruggedness, but we can let that pass).

      I never understood why buying a computer had to be a race for the bottom. Then people end up complaining about how crappy their computer is.

    2. Re:Buy a Macbook Pro, even for Windows/Linux by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Huh. My father was a big Dell fan. He bought himself one, then my mother one, then my sister one. All the batteries died, and the replacements too. He has a macbook pro now. My sister is currently using a Toshiba. And my mother has an iPad.

    3. Re:Buy a Macbook Pro, even for Windows/Linux by subreality · · Score: 5, Informative

      Counterpoint: Don't buy a MacBook Pro except if you want OS X. The EFI BIOS is a pain. I spent unreasonable amounts of time holding down magic "alt-apple-whatever" key combinations and rebooting trying to figure out WTF was wrong with the thing. It's MUCH nicer to have a computer that has a BIOS setup screen where you can just go tell it which drive to boot from and which simply gives you an error message when something is wrong. And the whole mess of conflicting partition tables... don't get me started.

      I've also found the hardware to be not-so-good. All the components are great, of course, but Apple very much prefers to make the case pretty at the expense of repair. For example: on a thinkpad you open it up by removing five screws from the bottom and pulling off the palm rest and keyboard. Easy. On a MBP, I had to take out no fewer than two dozen screws and pry up a dozen little plastic clips around the edges where the metal top meets the metal side... And they never quite go back together again just right. And for documentation of the procedure? Thinkpads have a detailed service manual; the Mac has ZERO documentation and you're stuck reading online howtos which never seem to cover exactly your model. You're supposed to take it to the store if you want something fixed.

      I'm also not happy with the all aluminum design. It looks good, but I'm pretty rough on laptops - I'm in a fabrication shop a lot and shit happens. My MacBook Pro was turning into a scraped and dented beater. My Thinkpad (metal frame, plastic skin) has taken just as many drops to the concrete floor and bangs into equipment, and it's in much better shape (almost like new) even after several years of abuse.

      As implied above, I'm now very fond of Thinkpads. For the OP, here's the quick summary of Thinkpad models:

      First character:
      X - Ultralight
      T - Standard size
      W - Workstation

      Second:
      2 - 12"
      4 - 14"
      5 - 15"
      7 - 17"

      So a T5xx is a standard-frame 15" laptop.

      Real Thinkpads ALWAYS have this keyboard: http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/mobile/lenovo-thinkpad-t61/keyboard.jpg . Note, seven rows counting up the left side; three volume buttons; round power button; pgup/pgdn above and below each other. Here's a fake Thinkpad: http://www.unitedgadget.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ThinkPad-X100e-Keyboard.jpg - chiclet keys, six rows, no dedicated volume buttons, etc.

      There are two reasons you care: 1, this keyboard is great; 2, what's underneath is built like a Thinkpad, not an Ideapad dressed up in black and sold through business channels. Lenovo has done themselves a huge disservice by diluting the Thinkpad brand this way, but fortunately the real ones are very easy to spot once you recognize the keyboard. There are a bunch of other things that change too, but this one's the easiest to spot.

  11. Re:mac by bughunter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    get a mac

    It sounds trite, but there is a kernel of wisdom there. Buy a Macbook Pro if you can afford it.

    If you have the budget, you'll get what you pay for. It has the only extended warranty for any electronic gadget that Consumer Reports recommends. It will run any OS you like. It will last for 5 to 10 years depending on your needs (games vs web/email, respectively). You can spend a similar amount and get a comparable or slightly better hardware package from Dell/Alienware, but it won't come with the warranty, OS options, elegance or robustness that Macbook Pros are famous for.

    This suggestion will start a flame war. You're going to hear from fanatics from both sides. However, I manage a mix of computers for both a small business and a household with several power users, and I have learned firsthand the strengths and weakness of both camps.

    Windows' strengths are in gaming and technical/engineering applications. If you want access to the most games, or need to run CAD/FEA applications, then you should buy a Windows desktop machine. Not a laptop, but one that you can upgrade piecemeal as your needs evolve. Build your own, or arrange to have one built for you, and you can get a spectacular set of hardware specs for a very low price.

    However, if you want a casual use or business laptop, then Apple's MBPs are the best available, even if you intend to run Windows exclusively. The extra money you spend will eventually pay off in 1) time saved in building it, and 2) the time saved in maintaining it. The 2.2 GHz 15-inch models offer the best price/performance ratio if your budget is constrained. Otherwise, I recommend buying the 17-inch 2.5GHz quad-core i7 - it will last the longest before you need to purchase a replacement.

    --
    I can see the fnords!
  12. Re:13" MacBook Air by Xel · · Score: 3, Informative

    Doesn't have the internal optical drive, but its coming in under budget so they probably wouldn't mind buying an external. Don't know about the screen, though. It's the resolution of a 15", but its physically 13". It is cool, it has an SSD, the performance is great, and its a fabulous machine. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.

    --
    "Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines."
  13. Re:Get a Mac by peragrin · · Score: 4, Informative

    No matter what you get max out the RAM to whatever the system Max is everytging else willlast her five years. But software always chews up more ram than it should

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  14. 1366x768 on a 15" $1500 laptop? by gman003 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Holy crap, that's a horrible idea.

    I almost bought an Asus G55. Fifteen inch screen, full 1920x1080 resolution, and just around $1500. Only reason I didn't end up buying it was because I was mislead by the pre-order page to believe that it had two hard drive bays as well as the optical drive bay. Apparently Asus removed that feature without notifying resellers, because I got an email weeks later telling me the machine I'd configured was impossible - I got upgraded to the larger G75 instead.

    Now, that particular machine would be terrible for light office/home use. But I've used 1366x768 screens - they are *terrible*, and when you're spending a grand and a half on a laptop, they're completely underspec.

    Try to get at least a 1600x900 screen. Seriously. That's just about the most important advice I can give you.

  15. Re:mac by DWMorse · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Her price range ($1,500 - $2,000) and level of technical aptitude (or lack thereof) makes her a perfect Apple candidate. This is my recommendation too.

    If she ever just -has- to run Windows, make sure to get the 256GB SSD in it, so you've got room for two healthy sized partitions.

    --
    There's a spot in User Info for World of Warcraft account names? Really?
  16. Re:mac by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Mac has done well is avoiding the exact problem the OP describes

    That's a typical misconception. Apple puts together a very pretty package and basically dictates what you will run, how you will run it, what you can do with it, and where you can do it. There are a whole new set of problems with mac, and if you are quite limited as to what you can do software-wise. You will still have software problems. You still have viruses. You still have software problems with upgrades. People still need to search some forum from time-to-time to figure out how to fix some strange new issue. Ever try and build something from Ports only to have it *not* friggin work when you upgrade? Yeah, same issues. It's not a perfect world that everyone seems to imply. Don't get me wrong, Apple has gone to great lengths to make the use experienced top-notch, but it still has it's problems just like Windows, Linux and FreeBSD. I get really tired of people making it out to be some trouble-free system when it's not.

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
  17. Re:mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Considering that the Mac will run all of your Windows and Linux software alongside Mac stuff, I fail to see how you can say it's limited software-wise.

  18. Re:mac by Dr+Max · · Score: 4, Informative

    Your comment sure makes it sound like you wont get a good computer unless you put down 2 grand on an apple. Personally I would recommend lenovo, the thinkpad series is tough, customisable, good support, good warranty, good specs, and a much more tolerable price. For example the new thinkpad edge e530 with the new 3rd generation intel ivybrdige cpu i7-3612QM (22 freaking nm), 2gb nvidia graphics card, up to 16gb of ram, 15.6 inch screen at 1600x900, optical drive, win 7 64 bit, all for only $899 of the australian lenovo site (strangely i couldn't see a ssd option which they almost always do, but the op could set that up himself for $250). It's more than capable of whatever gets thrown at it and you have 1100 dollars left.

    --
    Rocket Surgeon.
  19. Re:mac by rockout · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Keep in mind this isn't a recommendation for the techie brother, but for aforementioned non-techie sister of the techie brother. All of the problems you list are really nerd problems (with a healthy dose of anti-Apple mania thrown in, I might add) and not problems for a casual user. If she has the money for a high-end laptop (and does - budget is "up to $2000"), might as well spend it on a Mac. She'll be happier in the long run and the techie brother can stop shopping for countless hours trying to figure out what's customizable and what isn't.

    Your statement that it's not trouble-free is correct, but you imply that it's no more trouble-free than the laptops running Windows. It is, actually. By quite a bit.

    --
    I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
  20. WAIT!! new Macbook is due out soon! by Savantissimo · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you decide on Mac, it's probably worth waiting a few weeks - there will be a new MacBook Pro out soon. (The old model is already getting discounted; mid-June to early July expected ship date). It should be lighter and will have the new version of the OS (Mountain Lion) is expected to be released at the same time. OTOH the new model is rumored to not have an optical drive. (Which isn't really a practical drawback in my opinion. The extra battery space will be more useful. Get an external backup drive for extra storage instead.)

    --
    "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    1. Re:WAIT!! new Macbook is due out soon! by Savantissimo · · Score: 4, Informative

      More specifics: 15-inch to be top model, with a 2560 x 1600 retina display. (old model was 1440 by 900) Performance will be nearly 20% higher than the old model, with a 2.7GHz 4-core Ivy Bridge processor. See the Geekbench entry for benchmarks and components. No Ethernet jack, the new model is too thin but it will have USB 3.0, and a converter dongle to Ethernet is available. Nvidia graphics chip is likely. The higher-res screen has an extra $92 parts cost which will likely be passed on, plus profit.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
  21. Re:Everybody is somewhat right. by IKnwThePiecesFt · · Score: 3, Informative

    The only problem I have with this is the statement that "Intel graphics downright stink." For gaming? Mostly. For everything else in the world? Intel graphics are more than enough. The HD3000 that came with SandyBridge (and the new IvyBridge GPU... HD4000?) is good enough to play Diablo 3 pretty well, and definitely good enough for any general desktop work.

  22. Re:mac by irving47 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yeah, pretty much this. I'm pleased to see how few of the Mac postings are being trolled or trolling themselves.

    Steve Jobs nixed a metric butt-load of models across all lines when he came back for this reason. The performas and quadras and centris models were all so close to each other. Then you had the same problem with the laptops.

    13" macbook pro unless she's going to be doing video editing or heavy-duty rendering/number-crunching.
    Reports? word processing, web browsing, email?
    You're done.
    Yeah it costs more, but I'll put money down that it will last longer (ie-she will be happier keeping it) than any "windows" laptop.
    And yes, as stated here, there's no problem running windows * on it. Just put an external mouse on it or learn to right click from a particular corner of the trackpad.

    --
    I had a sucky sig.
  23. Re:mac by Fnord666 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Configuration Price $1,999 * 2.2GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7 * 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM â" 2x2GB * 128GB Solid State Drive * SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW) * MacBook Pro 15-inch Glossy Widescreen Display * Backlit Keyboard (English) & User's Guide * Accessory Kit

    Try to leave range in the budget so that you can add AppleCare. The extended warranty and support is very nice to have.

    --
    'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
  24. Re:mac by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 4, Informative

    A couple of years ago I got my mom a Macbook with an AppleCare warranty. (Total cost about $1,000) She is extremely computer illiterate, i.e. copying and pasting links via IM is an advanced topic for her. The machine has behaved well, it hasn't 'rotted' like Windows likes to. The DVD rom failed at some point. She took it to the Apple store and they fixed it right up.

    I paid more than I would have for a Windows laptop and I really do not regret it. I've had to do very little tech support for her and Apple has taken care of the rest.

    All in all, I'm satisfied, my mother is too.

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  25. Re:mac by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 5, Funny

    All in all, I'm satisfied, my mother is too.

    *Sigh* I really should hit preview before I post.

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  26. Re:mac by bds1986 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It sounds trite, but there is a kernel of wisdom there. Buy a Macbook Pro if you can afford it.

    If you have the budget, you'll get what you pay for. It has the only extended warranty for any electronic gadget that Consumer Reports recommends. It will run any OS you like. It will last for 5 to 10 years depending on your needs (games vs web/email, respectively). You can spend a similar amount and get a comparable or slightly better hardware package from Dell/Alienware, but it won't come with the warranty, OS options, elegance or robustness that Macbook Pros are famous for.

    Agreed. I have a late-2007 MBP that is still my primary computer today. It looks feels brand new. My model suffered from a known issue with the Nvidia graphics chip (thanks to shoddy manufacturing on Nvidia's part, it was the subject of a widely-publicised class action lawsuit that also involved Dell and HP), and when it died on me late last year it was repaired for free (although I probably have Nvidia to thank for that more than Apple). It originally came with OSX 10.4 with a 10.5 upgrade disk but now runs 10.7 no hassles, although I did upgrade the RAM to 4GB myself. My MBP is pre-unibody so I imagine the newer models are even more durable.

    Before the MBP I had a mid-2006 Macbook (the very first Macbook model). When I decided to upgrade to the MBP I gave the Macbook to my not very computer literate mother (who isn't always the most gentle with electronic devices) who continues to use it this day. The only issue she experiences is that the power button is finally starting to wear to the point where it sometimes takes two presses to start the computer.

    In contrast I have my work provided HP Elitebook from 2009 (a fairly high-end business model) that creaks, groans, has plastic panels that don't seamlessly match up, a lower quality LCD, weighs more than the MBP, has fan exhausts in truly bizarre places and trackpad buttons that fire randomly sometimes. In it's favour it has slightly superior specs to the MBP, more ports and slots for various things, and it's relatively easier to disassemble (removable keyboards are great). However despite being 2 years younger in age I fully expect the MBP to be chugging along long after this thing is dead.

    I appreciate that this is only an anecdote, and plenty of good reasons exist to hate on Apple, but in my experience the build quality of their gear is not one of them. An MBP is definitely worth a look IMHO.

  27. Re:mac by Aliotroph · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Single-button, multi-touch trackpad. Two two fingers to right-click or scroll. It works better in Windows than any trackpad I've ever used.

    The strongest argument I can see against getting a Mac is they're expensive compared to PCs. I got mine second because of that.

  28. Microcenter is a good place to compare and buy. by bdwoolman · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you are lucky enough to have one of thesevery cool stores near you they are a great place to shop and buy tech. The prices are good, and for a brick and mortar operation they are sometimes awesome -- and the staff is usually informed. They also sell online. But a lot of stuff is in-store only. I have to drive for an hour to get to mine, but it is worth it. You could take your sister with you.

    I go into consumer coma in the store near me (Rockville MD). I imagine it is like being in an online operation's warehouse. I just bought components for an Ivy Bridge desktop build. They beat Newegg on the prices of the main components, MoBo and CPU, but Newegg was cheaper for the smaller boards. Cables etc were also reasonable at Microcenter (Unlike Best Buy where the prices of cables and cords are usurious). Laptop selection was also good, but I wasn't buying.

    As for comparison tips. I look at likely products with lots of reviews to take advantage of the hive mind. Then the percentage of good to bad reviews for a given product. Then I read a few good and a few bad. Sometimes a bad review of an otherwise good product will expose a deal killer for me. This is not the end all be all of a buying decision, but not all reviews are astroturfed.

    Last thing about a laptop buy. Teach your sis to take care of it. Don't run it on a pillow. Don't flop it on a table like a text book. Or slam it shut like a car door. Put it in its case to travel. And follow good practice with the battery (even Lions need some thought.) And wipe it down from time to time. Silicon has a soul and likes to be kept clean.

    --
    "No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
  29. Re:mac by patchmaster · · Score: 4, Informative

    I would have to second the recommendation for Lenovo. The place I'm working used to be exclusively a Lenovo shop and I was very impressed with the engineering of the boxes. They originally gave me a very old Lenovo desktop that had been around the block a few too many times and was under-configured. The optical drive no longer worked. When the IT guy came to replace the CD and add more memory I couldn't believe how quickly he finished. Seriously, it couldn't have taken him more than 60 seconds to open the box, add the memory, pop out the old CD and pop in the new one.

    That got me looking seriously at Lenovo. Shortly afterward I bought a Thinkpad W700 laptop that has seen near continual use for almost three years now. Last year I bought a Thinkpad X-series laptop so I had something a little easier to travel with than the behemoth W700. The W700 will soon be replaced with a W530. Nothing really wrong with it, but it's three years old and I'm dying to get one of those new Ivy Bridge i7 machines.

    The Thinkpads aren't sexy. They're no-nonsense, well-engineered tools to get a job done. And equivalently equipped they cost a helluva lot less than a Mac.

  30. You are the one sporting misconceptions by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apple puts together a very pretty package and basically dictates what you will run, how you will run it, what you can do with it, and where you can do it.

    You can run anything you like on any Macbook. And as other responders have noted it DOES solve the "too many models" problem, there is a limited selection of base models. It's basically, do you want an air or not and how much memory (RAM and storage) with reasonable defaults so you cannot go wrong simply ordering default configurations.

    You will still have software problems.

    Here's the key thing. Yes, you will have software problems. But who will solve them? If you are helping a friend buy a PC it's YOU who are solving them, that's who.

    If you help someone buy a Mac you can simply say "try the Apple store Genius Bar first". Chances are they can help, they generally are pretty competent and pretty technical.

    You still have viruses.

    Actually no. There's one virus, one, that was from a Java installation, and an OS update already closed the hole. And you would have had to go through a chain of trouble to activate it... not a virus at all in fact.

    But even ignoring the technical definition the truth is that unlike a PC, generally you can let a non-technical user go for years with a Mac and be pretty sure they will not have a virus.

    You still have software problems with upgrades.

    Actually that is REALLY rare, and again - Apple Store, not you. I have not had upgrade problems in years with any Mac software updates.

    People still need to search some forum from time-to-time to figure out how to fix some strange new issue.

    Or have someone help them for free, at an Apple Store. Are you starting to get what makes a Mac such a great idea for non-technical users? How is a non-technical person supposed to search forums for "odd problems" anyway? They cannot.

    Ever try and build something from Ports only to have it *not* friggin work when you upgrade?

    Come on man, that's not something the original poster is going to find a problem. If you are compiling UNIX utilities yes you may have some hiccups, but even then you can usually just recompile!

    Apple has gone to great lengths to make the use experienced top-notch, but it still has it's problems just like Windows

    That is the biggest misconception. I still have to help people with modern (Windows 7) pc's from time to time. Macs do NOT have problems anywhere close to what non-technical windows users have every day.

    To even think about buying a non-technical user a Windows box and all the inherent baggage that comes with it is simply cruel to my mind - and it's a cruelty that as I said will be punishing you as well as the recipient.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  31. Lenovos don't get stolen by yanom · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The hidden advantage of Lenovo is that all their stuff looks 10 years old, so no one bothers stealing it.

    --
    "That's either incredibly asinine or the most brilliant troll I've ever read. Not sure which." -Anonymous Coward
  32. Re:mac by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you go to Dell's website, for example, you might find 10 different models of 15" laptops, and it won't be very clear what the difference is between models

    And anything a geek cares about (max ram, HD slots - some come with one drive but hold more, and videocard range, as they show "common" config, usually base to go with the base price shown) is hidden from the comparison. But some details are in there most don't care about (i5 vs i5 where you have to look up processor codes to see what the differences are). And damn if half can be upgraded to "HD+" and a few to "Full HD" and you can't know until you try to configure every single one of them, though some comparison screens do show the difference, but not always, and not easily.

    I hate Dell for that. I want to be able to put in some options, get some pull downs for other options, then given a choice of "this one has a numeric keypad, and the others don't" or "this one has 2xUSB 3.0 and the other has 4x USB 2.0" or whatever the difference is between the inspiron and latitude versions is when essentially identical configuration.

    --
    Learn to love Alaska
  33. Re:mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems to me that the techie brother isn't much of a techie if he can't find or interpret specifications. He might know how to set the clock on his microwave, but he is not a techie.

    Real techies never read marketing materials when buying a computer, because spec sheets explain CPU, GPU, memory and storage options.

  34. Re:mac by johnsnails · · Score: 3

    And the strongest most compelling reason to fork out the exta $$ for a macbook is pretty much the trackpad. And I tripple boot, mac, windows and linux.

  35. Re:mac by waferthinmint · · Score: 5, Funny

    the HS down the street from us was throwing away perfectly good TRS80s so i picked up 5 and configured them to run as a Beowulf cluster and i soldered a nice case to carry the boards around. the punch card input via telex works fine now that I have written my own version of DOS and drivers. why would you need a mac?

  36. 5 basic steps. by cgenman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Step 1: The biggest problem with laptops are generally reliability. Figure out the reliable brands. Apple, Dell, Toshiba, and oddly Asus generally do well there, and Sony & HP are usually close to last. Start at those manufacturer sites.

    Step 2: The major differentiation is in CPU type & Speed. Is it a quad-core i7? an i3? If you're doing video editing or realtime code debugging, you need a top level i7. For gaming, an i5 is fine, and for everyone else an i3 is AOK. Note: Everyone offers laptops in whatever screen size you want. So pick your screen size and ignore the rest. Also, ignore anything over 8 lbs. The weight is never worth it.

    Step 3: GPU. If you need a gaming processor, configure the biggest the manufacturer offers. This can never be upgraded, there are no real options, and you can't get it later. So get it. If you don't need gaming, then Great! Nothing else uses the bloody thing, so don't bother.

    Step 4: Battery length. It's usually worth splurging on the biggest battery you can find, so configure that into the build. Everyone has a "long" one that lasts about the same length. Look for manufacturers who have battery settings that keep the charge withing 20% min and 80% max... This will greatly extend the lifespan of that extra 100 bucks.

    Step 5: Now figure out which setup is the closest to what you want, and go for it! Why haven't I mentioned RAM, Hard drive, software, or other optional extras? Because buying this from the manufacturer is flushing money down the toilet. Buy these after-market.

    --
    The ______ Agenda
  37. Re:mac by toruonu · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is the standard claim that is thrown against Apple. It's not the glowing bitten Apple you're buying with that extra dough. What you are getting is a lot more things:

    * Robust case that works the exact same way also 3 years after active use and possible multiple falls. The screen still closes tightly and soundlessly. I've had my MacBook Pro fall somehow and dent one edge near the CD drive and I've never noticed it. A comparable blow to cause aluminum to dent like this would have shattered a plastic laptop.

    * Ease of use. And that's something most people forget to price really. If your life turns around Linux kernels and command line and you don't have lawn to mow or family to spend quality time with, then you might not understand how much that is worth. Software management is hassle free (drag and drop for 90% of stuff, App Store for the rest that keeps and does all the updates for you).

    * Easy support from Apple as already outlined in many posts that makes sure any issue that pops up for the ordinary user is solved and their experience is a great one. Forget here the geeks that squeak when the latest nightly doesn't build from ports or what not. Noone cares about that really as it affects a negligible amount of people in the real world (albeit quite a lot of people on slashdot).

    * The speed... Forget the need to compare drive spin speeds and CPU MHz and what not. What really matters is the speed at which your computer operates when you do stuff. And while Mac's are usually "underpowered" in comparison to many PC's it's due to perfectly clear reasons and lack of need for anything higher. You don't gain much by slamming the highest end CPU in there and then being unable to sustain it for 8h as well as the heating that you have to take care of. What really matters is that the macs with OS X combination is really snappy in most situations. If you go for an Air that is all SSD with passive cooling you get nice speed with no noise what so ever.

    * The trackpad. I mean seriously that's one major thing that either has to be seriously patented out or I cannot fathom why others don't use it yet. The huge trackpad is very nice to the feel under the finger and the multi touch gestures are something you grow into so tightly that when you have to use a non-mac laptop for what ever reason you feel suddenly as if someone had amputated your arm.

    * OS X ... There are so many things why OS X is far superior to Windows (and Linux doesn't even come close for the standard non-geek user). Most of all for the common things people do and should do. One biggest highlight is the native backup system Time Machine. You add either a USB disk or if you bought Time Capsule for the wifi the disk from there and it's about 1-2 clicks to turn the system on. After that you forget about it (that's what 99.99% of standard users do, forget about backups) and you never notice it at all. At least not until your hard drive fails (something I've experienced once and used once when I upgraded the disk to SSD as well as have seen some other people experience so it's not just stories and ads, but real life experience). You then just get the new HDD, boot the machine up (usually the HDD from Apple contains the OS boot environment for recovery or you use your boot usb key or what not) and select recovery from Time Capsule. You then leave for a few hours and you return to an EXACT working laptop pre-disk loss. All your settings, command history, tunes and tweaks, e-mail filters, junk mail learning base, everything (including custom ports and what not of non-OS X stuff) is exactly as you had at the time of last backup. No fuss, you just sit down and continue working as if nothing happened.

    * After market value. A lot of people won't buy a Mac out of the shop due to pricing issues, but a 1-2 year used Mac is usually in pristine condition so if you want to upgrade you'll find a decent deal on the aftermarket reducing your entry price for the next laptop. Add to it a custom memory pack and buy an SSD from so

  38. Re:mac by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You're doing it hopelessly wrong.

    She has totally different criteria than you. Numbers and specs mean nothing. Anything on the shelf will be powerful enough and have enough RAM, etc. for a normal person.

    The real question is: Will it make her happy?

    Take her to a big shop with lots of laptops and see which one she fondles. Feel the keys, pay particular attention to the trackpad buttons. Pick it up and see if it feels solid. If it seems reasonably well built then that's the right one.

    --
    No sig today...
  39. Re:mac by firesyde424 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Holy apple tax batman! Are they making macbooks out of gold plate these days? $2000 is upper mid to high end Alienware money. You Mac fanboys might have had a reason back when apple used ppc hardware. But now that Apple uses the same stuff as everyone else in the PC world, there's no excuse for this kind of price gouging. Unless you are telling me that OSX is worth the $800 - $1000 difference in hardware.......