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Ask Slashdot: How To Shop For a Laptop?
jakooistra writes "My sister recently asked me for a laptop recommendation. I said, 'Sure, what are techie brothers for,' and diligently started my search for her perfect laptop. Two days later, I feel like I've aged two years. Every laptop vendor seems to want to sell a dozen different, poorly-differentiated models, with no real way of finding out what is customizable without following each model to its own customization page. And there are so many vendors! How am I, as a consumer, supposed to find what I need? Is there a website, hiding somewhere I just can't find, that tracks all the multivariate versions and upgrade choices in an easily searchable database?"
jakooistra adds a few criteria, in case you have specific laptop suggestions: "It needs a good CPU, but we almost don't care about the GPU (HD 3000 graphics are acceptable). A model that doesn't get very hot would be nice. We'd like an SSD and an internal optical drive. A 15"-17" screen at 1366x768 or higher would be ideal. Budget is around $1,500, but could go up to $2,000 if it's really worth it."
get a mac
Do not buy a consumer laptop, make sure you shop around in the Business/Small Business areas of leading manufacturers (HP, Lenovo, Dell).
Pick MacBook Pro or MacBook Air, then pick a size. Done.
Get a pink one. She'll be happy.
does the operating system matter? (or is it just assumed that you want windows)
Just get a Macbook.
Seriously. They make nice enough laptops and are within your price range while having crappy enough specs (compared to a non-Apple at the same price) to meet your requirements :)
Since you're buying a laptop, presumably you want to be able to carry it around. If you plan to do a lot of traveling on foot, you'll want a lighter laptop than someone who drives most of the time. Keep in mind that larger laptops tend offer more performance at a smaller price.
Once you've nailed down the physical dimensions you're looking for, you can try to maximize the price/performance ratio from there.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
If you plan on running that isn't OEM Windows or want it to last for more than a year, DO NOT GET AN ACER. I thought that, maybe, they used extremely shoddy parts and had bad ACPI support for only the cheap models. I was wrong. I've had this laptop for about a month and the fan is already dying on me... Next month it'll be the usb ports, like my sister's and cousin's laptops..
Step 1 is to figure out what your absolute demands are so as to narrow your choice already. This includes budgeting, what you'll be using the thing for, etc. Sounds like you've already done this.
Step 2: Walk into a store.
No, seriously. It's all good and well to spec out a machine on the web and then say "this one's perfect!". But then you get it and... the casing feels weird, the way the keyboard types makes you cringe, the glossy screen you thought would be nice and sharp is really just reflecting the bright windows behind you when you sit at your desk, the backslash is situated next to the shift key, the audio quality can be called poor at best and while you intend to use headphones most of the time it's really just not acceptable, and whenever you glance at something else, you can't help but notice some weird fuzzy...moving..jittery.. things on the screen that you can't quite see when you look straight at it but you swear they're there (and they are - hello, temporal dithering - load up the LCD test webpage if possible if you care about the screen).
So go to a store and test the machines in person. THEN go back to the internet to find the best deal / customization options if you really want.. or, if you've pretty much found the one you want, get it at the store (yeah, you could save some bucks - but the store did provide you the service of allowing a hands-on.. might as well reward them, within reason).
Your budget is pretty high for a computer that doesn't need to have much graphical prowess, by the way.
Buy the cheapest because stores are selling them off because they won't run that bloated expensive legacy operating system. Then wipe out the said operating system as you load Linux.
work in progress
Subject says it all! It's a great system, extremely fast for regular day-to-day things, especially web surfing. Plenty of fast for just about everything else.
Dell XPS has the features your looking for, just got an I7, 256GB SSD, and 17" screen for around $1300 or so. And no the manufactures websites are tangled messes of models with no easy way to compare features between different classes of laptops, it's even better when price differ wildly between models with almost the exact same features.
Apple does make it easier by giving you far fewer choices in a case like this (unless they don't have what you want).
Get her a Lenovo business laptop. Yes, they are a little bit pricey but you get what you pay for.
Lenvo B575 with a AMD APU. Does everything I want, cheap enough to throw it out the window if it doesn't.
With a budget as handsome as $1500-$2000, I don't see why you can't stick to Apple laptops, even if you want to run Windows. On the other hand, if your budget were lower - say, under $750 - you'd have to inconvenience yourself with all sorts of research about brands, models, configuration options, warranties, consumer reports, deal websites and coupons, friends with EPP rebates etc. It doesn't sound like the OP is on a tight budget though.
-- obligatory (but true) caveat: my comments my own, and don't reflect my employer or colleagues' positions.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
1) If Apple is OK - do consider them. Quality wise not many other notebooks will come close. 2) I suggest looking at screen first and foremost. Vast majority of notebooks have rather bad 768p TN panels. If you will limit your choice to at least 1600x900 or above (assuming 15") choice will become easier since you will look only at few models. And it is still doable within your price range if you stay away from Sony.
I'm trying to figure out how he's the "techie" of the family if he doesn't know how to purchase a laptop.... I'm also curious why any laptop for normal use would cost over $1,500. That seems a bit excessive.
In any case, I highly recommend New Egg (newegg.com). It allows for easy searching based on a variety of preferences and it makes comparison shopping easy and it gives detailed specs. When in doubt, get a cheap one. You could buy three or four reasonable laptops for the budget alloted to this venture.
both have nice websites with the obvious base choices for you being:
https://zareason.com/shop/Strata-6770.html
Stock at $849
with a 160GB SSD comes to $1,148
and for me the winner would be:
https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/gazp7
3rd Generation Intel Core i7-3610QM Processor
Stock at $899
With 180 GB SSD comes $1178
Btw, for what you are asking for, your budget seems high actually :).
Select between Lenovo(Thinkpad) and Apple refurbished, then drill down to whatever models fit the criteria. Then do a favor for them and get them to have the longest warranty obtainable. For Lenovo, this would be 5-year(?, maximum may be 4) onsite service. For Apple, whatever Applecare does is going to have to do.
Either company has some thin and stylish laptops in that price range. Lenovo just happens to make them more maintenance friendly.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
New tablet/laptop hybrids will be out with screen resolutions above 1366 x 768 with great DPI. Perhaps Retina resolution grade?
Basically the screen part pops out for a 17 in tablet and you can plug it back in. Dell and HP will sell them with Windows 7 as well as Windows 8, assuming it is a repeat of Vista. My father got his PC when Vista came out and Dell had a version with XP still and he jumped on it. Or just wipe them with Windows 7 as SP 1 supports Secure Boot and EFI as well.
With that out of the way the very first thing I do is type "The lazy brown fox jumped over the fence" to test the keyboard and my accuracy. I do typing a lot when I was in school and I assume most people primarily use their computers for that. The keyboard is very important. Then buy them online after trying the models at hte local BestBuy or Fries.
http://saveie6.com/
Honestly, for $1500 the Macbook Pro or MBA will suit you very well, even if you don't intend to run OS X. The machines are well built and come with a decent warranty and will last for a long time. They also have pretty high resale value.
If you want to run Windows or Linux then dual booting is a snap (you can blow away the OS X partition completely if you like).
If you do go this route though, I advise that you wait until after Apple's WWDC keynote on June 11th - the strong likelihood is that the 2012 versions of the Macbook Pro and Macbook Air will be announced, so even if you want a current 2011 one, if you wait you can either get a new one for the same price, or a 2011 for a discount.
If you want to get a quick lay of the land, visit a Microsoft Store if you are able to locate one nearby. Despite the popular antipathy on /. towards M$, the stores stock a very good representative sample of consumer laptops that are functional, powerful, aesthetically slick (what little of that exists in the Windows world), and a good value for money.
There are popular consumer electronics stores like Fry's, Best Buy etc., but last I was inside one of those, I didn't get a sense that their selections did anything to reduce the numerical size of almost indistinguishable and hard-to-compare choices.
-- obligatory (but true) caveat: my comments my own, and don't reflect my employer or colleagues' positions.
Really, the biggest difference between laptops is the brand. Typically, more expensive laptops are better built laptops.
Dells tend to break after a year. HP's, 6 months if you do anything other than leave them in one spot on your desk, a year otherwise.
Lenovo's are basically rebranded IBMs, and are typically decently constructed. I've had good luck with Fujitsu as well, but only for their tablet notebooks (higher end).
Mac's are higher priced, and higher end, but are also built well.
Once you've figured out what brand you are buying, then the rest should be easier.
You can go with a desktop type processor (AMD Phenom/Intel I5) or a more mobile oriented processor (AMD Turion/Intel Atom), with the tradeoff being that typically higher power CPUs make your battery life short. On the higher power processor side, you can usually shop around for a discrete graphics card model, which would allow you some limited videogame playing.
From there, the options are usually HDD speeds and sizes (7200 RPM being fast, but power hungry, 5400 RPM being slow, but good battery life, and SSD being fast, good battery life, but small in space), screen size ( > size == > bulk/weight), and RAM/memory (less practicality for more RAM, and laptop RAM is usually much higher priced per GB).
So it depends on what you want to do.
If you intend to use it mostly on travel, pick one with a mobile style processor, a moderately sized SSD (maybe 32GB-64GB, with Linux, 128GB+ with Windows 7), and a smaller screen size/lighter weight.
If you intend to use it mostly as a desktop replacement, pick one with a good processor (Phenom/I5/I7), a nice sized 7200 RPM HDD (300+GB), a discrete graphics card, and a large screen.
And of course, one that fits your budget (which you should probably increase).
I hope that helps a little bit in explaining the options.
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
We're at the point where any laptop on the market will do 99% of what she's likely to need. Unless she has some REALLY specialized needs, anything on the shelf will run the software she wants just fine.
Take her to a store a good selection and let her choose from what's available. If it feels shoddy, skip it. Otherwise any name brand laptop will likely keep her happy.
Probably the only thing I would add is to look at maxing out the RAM - never a bad thing. And, as suggested, lighter is better. For that matter, smaller screen size = less wight and more portability.
Three Squirrels
You wouldn't take two days if she is going to run OSX. I am running Linux by the way, but am assuming that she intends to run Windows.
1) Go to a website like Tigerdirect or Newegg.
2) Start with all laptops and filter on the left by screen size (17" for my purposes).
3) Using benchmarks and prices, pick a CPU (At the moment, Intel is on top of this list: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html )
4) Do the same with video cards. Note that some Nvidia GPU's have an overheating problem and Intel graphics downright stink. (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html)
5) Look up problems and issues with each remaining model on Google.
6) Consider other specs with your sister.
7) After going through all of the filters, sort by price. Use http://www.pricewatch.com/ for comparison if you narrow it down to a few.
8) Let your sister choose from the remaining list.
At least for me, the ideal setup is a badass desktop for srs bsns + a cheapo netbook or tablet for when you need the mobility. It will probably cost less than a good laptop.
Circumcision is child abuse.
If you want reliability, I would recommend a Panasonic Toughbook. I first hand know they have very few electronic failures (2 out of about 500) and can take lots of physical abuse too. The cheap consumer laptops often die within 3 years because they try to save $2 by not sourcing decent capacitors on the motherboards. Even if you replace the motherboard your self it is still $250 or more from the manufacturer. Those models often all have motherboard issues on Ebay too. Then it is at lest $100 in labor to hire someone smart and patient enough to do a good job. At lest I think you should charge $100 to $150 if one is good at laptop motherboard replacement. I repaired a DC plug once, but never a motherboard because the estimate is always too much. The customer will just buy another disposable laptop.
A Mac is the easy choice, you can run whatever OS you like on it. They are the best built laptop out there, so will last longer and even a 3 or 4 year old one has a good resale value, so cheaper in the long run. To get an even better deal check the Apple refurb store.
Why do you need a DVD drive? They are just dead weight to carry around. With full screen apps in OS X Lion I now find the 11 inch screen more useful than my 27 inch iMac. If it's a machine to carry around a lot then consider size and weight over everything else.
Lastly wait a couple of weeks, lots of new models are due soon.
$1500-$2000 for a non gaming laptop is completely overpriced. For an average non techie user (Facebook, email and browsing) you shouldn't need to spend more than $600-$700.
Holy crap, that's a horrible idea.
I almost bought an Asus G55. Fifteen inch screen, full 1920x1080 resolution, and just around $1500. Only reason I didn't end up buying it was because I was mislead by the pre-order page to believe that it had two hard drive bays as well as the optical drive bay. Apparently Asus removed that feature without notifying resellers, because I got an email weeks later telling me the machine I'd configured was impossible - I got upgraded to the larger G75 instead.
Now, that particular machine would be terrible for light office/home use. But I've used 1366x768 screens - they are *terrible*, and when you're spending a grand and a half on a laptop, they're completely underspec.
Try to get at least a 1600x900 screen. Seriously. That's just about the most important advice I can give you.
If you care for such things use Greenpeace's Guide to Greener Electronics to help you sort through the manufacturers. Even if you don't agree with their methods it is a good point of reference
Notably you should try to find a way to actually touch and hold your choice. Particularly your relative may not realize what a 17" laptop would mean for portability.
After having a few laptops ranging from 12 to 17 inches over time, I've found 14" to be what I feel to be a good compromise. 1600x900 display at least. When reasonable, I use an external 22" monitor at 1920x1200, but I wouldn't want to drag aronud the requisite bulk and weight of a 17" laptop again...
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
,,, so the most cost effective way to get a quality laptop is to buy a factory brand. Just search for Clevo and/or Compal which are the factories' house brands. RJ Tech is one reseller where you can get them.
I'm also looking for one. Does anyone have any suggestions for a 12/13" laptop that can withstand some knocks and falls? I haven't found one that isn't designed for taking on the Dakar trip and therefore cost $2000+.
Dilbert RSS feed
A tad redundant. Tons of comments saying pretty much the exact same words without additional insight gets a tad old. Besides, unless submitter lives under a rock, they certainly already know about those offerings as Apple is *very* aggressive and savvy about their marketing. Many of the other options do not acheive the same awareness as Apple.
For me, without a pointer device on the home row, it's a non-starter. Therefore mac is off the table, even if it weren't 15-20% more expenisve than comparable quality Lenovo/HP laptops. Before you say the Macs are higher quality, they aren't. They are significantly better build quality than the Lenovo/HP products that are half the price of the Macbooks with comparable specs, but I'm talking about the higher end competitor model lines. The only thing you get is OSX, which actually isn't particularly anything special. Users unsatisfied with Windows in terms of UI flexibility or general architecture would probably be best served by Linux. Those unsatisfied with relative lack of commercial software in Linux would be best served by Windows.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Do what I did - realise old laptop is no longer up to the job; notice Aldi has a laptop on special the next week at AU$600 with suitable specs (in particular, 8GB RAM); figure "I can return it for any reason within 60 days so might as well see if it's suitable"; grab the third of four available at the store; get it home; realise it has a matte screen; go "Woohoo!".
A couple of days later (following a fair bit of tweaking) I had a new work laptop that I'm very happy with.
I think it is *key* to try to find a way to actually physically evaluate whatever you narrow it down to. For mobile computing, form factor, weight, balance, rigidity, and other factors are best assessed first-hand.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Since the OP is supposedly looking for a machine for his sister, he should start there and ask what she wants it to do. In all likelihood, she will never want to customise it, so he should be looking at the simplest or most reliable way of fitting the tool to the job. Sure, there might be issues like bulk or styling to take into account, but again that needs her input. Enough with the patronising.
Before recommending a laptop, ask her how much she wants to spend. After you have that, it becomes a lot easier to discover what you can get. In laptops, I look for the longest battery life with a 15 inch screen. I picked up a decent Toshiba laptop for my wife for 300 dollars (after Thanksgiving). 15 Inch, LED back-lit screen, 4 gigs of memory, 250 gig HDD, and a duel core AMD chip. It was plenty of computer for her needs (web surfing and very basic productivity work).
If you can get an SSD in her price point, I would make that a priority due to the battery life and performance improvements you get.
no other choice. Save a ton of money and get great warranties
Don't buy a Dell, Dude; just don't.
I was never happy with the performance of any Dell laptop I had, either personally, or work provided.
I had a thinkpad with essentially identical hardware as my personal dell: same memory, GFX, CPU, screen rez, I think the HD on the Dell even speced faster. But the actual usage difference between the two was like night and day; so just don't buy a Dell.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
When it comes to PCs/laptops , Most non-tech people budget too high for their actual usage. Probably because they've just looked at the high-ticket items in the bricks'n'mortar shops. Although h264 decoding does require a bit of grunt or good gpu.
If you decide on Mac, it's probably worth waiting a few weeks - there will be a new MacBook Pro out soon. (The old model is already getting discounted; mid-June to early July expected ship date). It should be lighter and will have the new version of the OS (Mountain Lion) is expected to be released at the same time. OTOH the new model is rumored to not have an optical drive. (Which isn't really a practical drawback in my opinion. The extra battery space will be more useful. Get an external backup drive for extra storage instead.)
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
Decide what's really important; do you really want a 1366x768 17" screen? Maybe you do, that'll make things easier. I've never found anyone who's unhappy with higher resolution screens unless they have poor vision.
Look at the Slickdeals, Fatwallet, Dealnews sites to see what goes on sale, and how often.
If she's going to use it as a road warrior, get a corporate model. They can come with 3 year warranties (including breakage coverage). If she's likely to keep it longer than that, plenty of parts will be available on eBay for cheap.
If she's going to put it on a desk and leave it there forever, get a cheap model that suits her needs. If she's going to want to upgrade in a year anyway, then get the cheapest one you can find; you can get 3 one-year laptops with that $1500 or one 3-5 year laptop.
Newegg with the advanced search with narrow your options pretty well
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=32&name=Laptops-Notebooks
You can find the one I'm seriously looking at here
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215081
Comparable to an iPad yet it runs Windows and is cheaper while including a Keyboard Dock. The really nice thing is the inclusion of a pair of USB ports unlike the iPad. On the CPU front, it's one of the new AMD APU models and it runs Win7. The only thing I'd suggest is doing a full wipe/clean install to get rid of the Bloatware that's preloaded by acer (backup the drivers first) and tweak things for best performance. One thing I'd also suggest is this stylus for Capacitive Screens
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834989024
and add a few 16GB Flash and SD Cards for extra storage as they're less then $12 ea = >$1.00 per GB. On the software front, toss in a copy of Office Home and Student and she'll have Word, Excel, Powerpoint and OneNote to make her teachers happy for reports. Sure the 32GB SSD isn't that big but offers enough space that with her docs and such kept on either a Flash or SD Card, she wont loose her class work if it's broken/lost.
Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
Think really hard on that monitor size. A large display will add a lot to the price and make it heavy. If your sister really needs the larger display when it's sitting a desk at home the vast majority of the time, pick a laptop with a small display, add a docking station and buy an external monitor.
Surprised no one mentioned Asus. They are great at price performance ratio, and are made for last.
Looking strictly at specs can lead you astray in laptops, and unlike desktops, it is difficult to fix problems by replacing parts. Like others have mentioned you need to check the laptops out in person or, at the very least, read some reviews on the laptops you're interested in.
With your budget, you shouldn't try to investigate every possible option - the ratio of garbage to good is way too high. Start by going to some review sites and just picking the laptops with the best reviews and find the ones in your budget range with the specs you want. This should significantly narrow down the ones you need to research. Make sure you read the reviews though - you'll pick up on stuff that just looking at the typical specs won't tell you. Such as if the laptop has a crappy track pad (this is actually a fairly common problem). Is the battery run time short? You definitely can't trust the manufacturers on that spec. Does the keyboard feel good to type on? Does the monitor have good viewing angles? Does the monitor produce the proper colors? Does the laptop get hot? Is the SSD actually fast?
Macbook pros are one of the good options that would fit your constraints, although there are others( I hear that certain Lenovo and Sony models are quite good). Keep in mind that you can get refurbished macs that come with the same warranty as brand new macs at reduced prices from the apple website. You can also find new macs at reduced prices at various online sites. For example, Macmall.com is a reputable site that typically has good prices. You should also know that it is widely expected that Apple will be introducing at least one or more of the new macbook pros in June (expected at WWDC). They are rumored to have retina displays - even if you don't care about having the latest and greatest, if you can wait, you'll be able pick up the old models (the ones that are current at this moment) at reduced prices.
It would also be a good idea to remind your sister to be gentle with her laptop. It seems obvious, but I've seen people just drop their laptops onto desks or drop/toss the bag containing the laptop.
Don't get an HP!
I had HPs and they are junk. Try calling them for support, the support people are idiots.
Buying on American Express doubles the warranty. I had computers fail, and Amex reimbursed me for the cost of the machines without much difficulty.
Fight Spammers!
Brand really doesn't matter much. I have bought Dells exclusively for the past 9 or 10 years, and have never been burned. If you don't want to pay the Mac Tax and would prefer a PC, here's what I've found.
First, stalk your technology. Find exactly what you want. Don't buy in stores for this reason. Want more RAM? Get it. Want a backlit keyboard? Get it. With very few exceptions (usually hard drives and accessories), everything is cheaper to add on at the beginning.
Second, and most importantly, GO TO THE SUPPORT FORUMS. Find a laptop series that's been out for 4 or 5 months, and go to the company's support forums to search for it. See what people are complaining about. This is where you find out what's going on under the hood. Weak/incomplete drivers, faulty hardware, random errors, people are going to bitch. One or two complaints aren't anything to worry about. More than that? May be time to reconsider.
My last laptop purchase was going to be an XPS, because it had everything I wanted on it at a price point I was comfortable with. Problem was? It was a POS. Bad drivers, power supply problems, lots of service calls, lots of angry returns. It ended up being a good decision not to buy it. I found a business class laptop that cost more, but it's been flawless. The forums had barely anything bad to say. Plus, I ended up finding a coupon for it that brought it back down to reasonable pricing.
And as a final note... I echo the people who say to buy a business laptop. You'll be much happier. Drivers are way better... the hardware as well. And before you buy, scan those skeezy coupon sites. Sometimes they have absolute steals. My last laptop was 34% off (services AND hardware) thanks to a quick google search before I hit "checkout".
So as of this moment the OP has 151 replies proving his point, which is that buying a laptop today is a disaster of competing options and confusing details.
Marketoids hate simple comparisons.
Why do you think they created all of those nearly identical products??
The answer is...to confuse you.
When you are confused, you are more likely to rely on emotion, rather than logic.
Buy the brand, buy the extras, etc...
I really, really hate shopping for laptops...
Most credit cards will double the manufactures warranty. That is a one year warranty becomes a two year warranty. They cover the second year. It is a free feature.
One with Snow Leopard, not Lion. Snow Leopard is one of the most solid operating systems I've ever seen. Lion, not so much.
Finding God in a Dog
Lenovo Thinkpad L720. Business model (non reflecting screen). Without SSD drive I payed about $500.- six months ago. HDD were generally quite expensive when I ordered mine, but even then you would have stayed far below your limits. Can't complain - I wanted a reliable machine with as litte non-essential extras as possible (no camera, no fingerprint reader etc.), as I use it mainly for music production and performance. Got exactly what I wanted. Runs Debian/stable AMD64 and Windows7 64bit, Debian installed without any problems, GLX, wireless, audio, BT, all there out of the box.
Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
The most important thing is to get a machine targeted at enterprise use, they are much more durable than consumer laptops. Don't worry too much about the CPU etc.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds -- Albert Einstein
If 720p (1366x768) and a 15" screen is acceptable, $1500 is more than triple what you should be paying. Treat the machine as a commodity, expect it to get dropped/lost/etc. Set it up with automatic backups (e.g. Crashplan, Carbonite, Backblaze, etc.) and good encryption for when it's lost/stolen (if it's a single-user machine this may be easier since there are no cross-account encryption issues for backups) and save the money to get a better machine in a year or two. If you want CPU but don't care about graphics, get an Intel chip; if you're going to be playing games on an inexpensive laptop get an AMD A4 or A6 processor for the built-in graphics (comparable graphics on Intel requires an added graphics card).
As far as the sites go, I sent a nastygram over to Asus not too long ago noting that since clearly Marketing had completely subdued anyone with technical knowledge, I was sure that any laptop from them would continue to look mahvelous even after components started to fail. I also criticized the complete lack of any way to search by specifications other than manually opening each product's page.
fencepost
just a little off
Sadly, manufacturers may change chipsets even on identical model numbers. The wifi card, for example, may be different on the same model. The graphics card used to be changed sometimes. Even the detailed model number is often meaningless.
Lastly, don't buy Dell.
If you are lucky enough to have one of thesevery cool stores near you they are a great place to shop and buy tech. The prices are good, and for a brick and mortar operation they are sometimes awesome -- and the staff is usually informed. They also sell online. But a lot of stuff is in-store only. I have to drive for an hour to get to mine, but it is worth it. You could take your sister with you.
I go into consumer coma in the store near me (Rockville MD). I imagine it is like being in an online operation's warehouse. I just bought components for an Ivy Bridge desktop build. They beat Newegg on the prices of the main components, MoBo and CPU, but Newegg was cheaper for the smaller boards. Cables etc were also reasonable at Microcenter (Unlike Best Buy where the prices of cables and cords are usurious). Laptop selection was also good, but I wasn't buying.
As for comparison tips. I look at likely products with lots of reviews to take advantage of the hive mind. Then the percentage of good to bad reviews for a given product. Then I read a few good and a few bad. Sometimes a bad review of an otherwise good product will expose a deal killer for me. This is not the end all be all of a buying decision, but not all reviews are astroturfed.
Last thing about a laptop buy. Teach your sis to take care of it. Don't run it on a pillow. Don't flop it on a table like a text book. Or slam it shut like a car door. Put it in its case to travel. And follow good practice with the battery (even Lions need some thought.) And wipe it down from time to time. Silicon has a soul and likes to be kept clean.
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
You helped her buy it, you're expected to help her set it up, use it, hook it up to different things, get programs working, and all that.
Getting a family member to move from Windows to Mac pretty much solved that issue for me. The only thing I ever had to make a "service call" over was setting up a wireless printer.
Admittedly she wasn't tied to any Windows apps so switching her over was pretty straightforward. Her word processing and spreadsheet use was for personal work. The iLife apps read her old Word and Excel docs. Only took a minute to show her how to save as PDF for when she had to send someone a file.
It's also extremely ridiculous that her budget is more than $800. I can guarantee she'd be fine, for many years, with a laptop that's under $800 total.
Since she's not technically inclined any computer with the latest CPU and enough ram and a keyboard that isn't going to fall apart in 2 seconds is going to be fine for her. So any laptop in the mid price range should work. That's what I tell my family, I'll recommend brands, but usually it doesn't matter. As long as it runs iTunes (assumption) and can open gmail, most people are fine with whatever laptop.
My recent gig gave me one. The one button touchpad is a bit of a pain, but you can live with it and add an external mouse if you can't.
I run Ubuntu, Winbloze, and MaxOs on mine.
If you have two large to burn, you can't go wrong.
Of course, my bias stems from the fact that the i7 with 8GB of RAM under the hood of mine rocks. It's also my personal build machine, and I've never had a laptop fast enough to be a decent build machine.
But, you know, for $250 I picked up some Acer chepie laptops at Fry's (three to be exact), and for browsing the internet, they are fine.
Do I like the Mac, always having shunned them? I guess. Would I spend $2k of my own money on one? Probably not. But, there is nothing wrong with the machine that a Linux varient can't fix.
In Liberty, Rene
Apple puts together a very pretty package and basically dictates what you will run, how you will run it, what you can do with it, and where you can do it.
You can run anything you like on any Macbook. And as other responders have noted it DOES solve the "too many models" problem, there is a limited selection of base models. It's basically, do you want an air or not and how much memory (RAM and storage) with reasonable defaults so you cannot go wrong simply ordering default configurations.
You will still have software problems.
Here's the key thing. Yes, you will have software problems. But who will solve them? If you are helping a friend buy a PC it's YOU who are solving them, that's who.
If you help someone buy a Mac you can simply say "try the Apple store Genius Bar first". Chances are they can help, they generally are pretty competent and pretty technical.
You still have viruses.
Actually no. There's one virus, one, that was from a Java installation, and an OS update already closed the hole. And you would have had to go through a chain of trouble to activate it... not a virus at all in fact.
But even ignoring the technical definition the truth is that unlike a PC, generally you can let a non-technical user go for years with a Mac and be pretty sure they will not have a virus.
You still have software problems with upgrades.
Actually that is REALLY rare, and again - Apple Store, not you. I have not had upgrade problems in years with any Mac software updates.
People still need to search some forum from time-to-time to figure out how to fix some strange new issue.
Or have someone help them for free, at an Apple Store. Are you starting to get what makes a Mac such a great idea for non-technical users? How is a non-technical person supposed to search forums for "odd problems" anyway? They cannot.
Ever try and build something from Ports only to have it *not* friggin work when you upgrade?
Come on man, that's not something the original poster is going to find a problem. If you are compiling UNIX utilities yes you may have some hiccups, but even then you can usually just recompile!
Apple has gone to great lengths to make the use experienced top-notch, but it still has it's problems just like Windows
That is the biggest misconception. I still have to help people with modern (Windows 7) pc's from time to time. Macs do NOT have problems anywhere close to what non-technical windows users have every day.
To even think about buying a non-technical user a Windows box and all the inherent baggage that comes with it is simply cruel to my mind - and it's a cruelty that as I said will be punishing you as well as the recipient.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The hidden advantage of Lenovo is that all their stuff looks 10 years old, so no one bothers stealing it.
"That's either incredibly asinine or the most brilliant troll I've ever read. Not sure which." -Anonymous Coward
The problem with the dongle is that you're then stuck at USB speeds, rather than gig speeds.
The ethernet adaptors on Apple thunderbolt displays are full gig speeds, since obviously Thunderbolt can handle the bandwidth...
If really needed, you could also go with a thunderbolt - express card adaptor and get a GigE Expresscard. But most non-technical users will be just fine with a 10/100 interface.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Thinkpads are more modular, it's cheaper/easier to replace screens, keyboards, optical drives or batteries. Macs have OS X.
If you get the Mac with Applecare all of the things you list are replaced for free if anything fails or is even somewhat wrong.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Younger, less tech savvy buyers are going to base more of their critique of a laptop on form factor since they won't be stressing the hardware. Let her look at the aesthetics of laptops, keyboard feel, color, screen size, and weight. You should then *secondarily* back up her decision if the hardware and vendor are suitable.
Really, hardware is so beyond what laymen users need nowadays that I wouldn't trust making a laptop decision based on a list of components.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
* Applecare means EVERYTHING is fixed for you, hassle free. If it can't be fixed on the spot you'll either get a brand new replacement or the computer will be out a week or so for repairs. They do not haggle with you or give you grief about HOW broken something is, they err on the side of YOU being happy.
* All of the trackpads on any model of Mac you choose are fantastic, and work extremely well. You really can easily work without a mouse.
* The unibody design is really solid, and helps prevent damage in backpacks.
* The magsafe connectors work really, really well to prevent a laptop from being yanked off a table or desk.
* Time Machine really works for normal people. Just hook it up to an airport (or get a time capsule) and she'll never have to think about backups, nor will you...
* Apple Store support. You can go in and ask the Genius Bar for help with anything, not just hardware issues. The only time anything is not free is when there is hardware that needs replacing out of warranty (and even then Apple is sometimes liberal).
I love my family so much I made sure as many of them as possible got Macs - so that when I was with them I could spend time with them, not their computers.
I know this all sounds horribly like an add but it's just real life experiences about the best aspects of my non-technical family members and myself owning Macs in comparison with help I used to have to give PC user family members often.
The only area where Macs still have significant complexity is around directly connecting and setting up printers. That part has always been annoying and not very pleasant. To alleviate that get a printer that you can connect to over a network, one that supports the iPad wireless connection standard is best. They are simply to set up and as painless to configure as a printer possibly can be on a Mac, and the printer not having to be connected to a computer is a huge drop in complexity of troubleshooting for multi-device households.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I was recently asked this by my friend who is not a power user.
1. Good CPU, i5 or higher!
2. Good Video card, NOT shared memory, if you go for low end on this it will hurt you for the life of the notebook
3. Lots of storage, don't cheap out on the hard disk, there cheap so no reason.
4. Go 17" so you get two hard drive bays and can dedicate one to a boot SSD
5. Good Memory! If the memory isn't high quality turn away and run!
6. Good Wifi chipset, don't screw around with anyone that basically isn't boardcom, you want open drivers
Basically follow my rules and you'll end up with a good notebook. You don't have to be a power user to actually make use of high quality / good parts. The worst thing most notebook buyers do is go out and buy what they can get by with right now. If your going with the cheap option you better be prepared to suffer for the few years a head.
Bullshit. Mac trackpad is exactly the same as most other trackpads on modern machines, except that it's missing a button. Which shills somehow advertise as an "advantage".
There used to be a time, many years ago when apple held some key patents to multitouch and they were the only one with decent implementation of multitouch on trackpads. These times are long past us, and pretending they're still here is quite silly.
My Sinclair 'putah! It still sails with me! Arrrgg!
Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
A sure sign of a crap laptop is the half sized left shift key. This is to make the keyboard for other languages a snap for the company but it is crap for the user. The next test is to shake it. Crap laptops sound like a baby rattle with all the keys and innards shaking about. Good laptops should make little or no noise. Next look for where the air intakes and exhausts are. How would they fare with the laptop sitting on a pillow? Craptops tend to have them in places that are suffocated by sitting on a pillow.
Don't stick with a brand in that most brands vary so much from model to model to make this near useless. That aside don't buy a brand you haven't herd of.
Boot time. What is the boot time from zero to hero. This shows if the laptop was designed this century. Sub 15 seconds is good. Over a minute is something from when Vanilla Ice was hanging upside down.
Lastly I like the youtube test. Does the machine run an HD video really well? That is a good overall test that any laptop should pass in that it should have enough power to do whatever most people want.
As for SSD, memory, CPU I say blah; most people need less than 30G of HD. 2-4G of memory and any half assed CPU. More important than the CPU would be the quality of the battery as to how many times it can be charged before it dies which is something that is beyond mere mortals to test.
Then you wipe all the bloatware off and wait for the person to break the screen.
There are some interesting ideas and recommendations on hardware, but what surprises me is that there is no mention whatsoever on what your sister wants or needs to run in terms of applications. Personally, I would make sure I understood what she wanted to run in terms of applications, and coupled with her own preferences and experiences with other hardware, then make a recommendation on which type of notebook to buy. It could very well be the case that the type of applications she needs to run are only available on one platform. Typical users spend time running applications, and in the end, pay little attention to the subtle variations in CPU speeds. In terms of the hardware itself, make sure that the display is suitable to her needs and expectations, and that she is comfortable in the feedback of the keyboard when running the applications she'll be spending most of her time using, and then that, along with budget, will help narrow down the choice in hardware.
The last three laptops I've bought have been without much research at all. Just paid my price range. I was happy each time.
I'm writing this from a Mac and just want to put in a negative word for them, because everybody else is recommending one. They're simply too expensive for what they are. Not to say they're terrible, in the end I can use it just as well as Windows, with the exception that Macs can't natively play games or run the translation software I use. In the end I'd say they're pretty much the same in practice, only not quite as good. Why pay hundreds of dollars extra for something, unless it's markedly better?
Hardware isn't quality, at least for me (and my friends with Macs) there's hardware problems with all of them, fixing is an ordeal.
I just can't imagine being flustered by options. "Oh my god one has an SSD, the other doesn't!" You're overthinking things.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
I'll admit to being a PC fan, in fact I once bought a mac notebook, kept it month, sold it, and bought a 2 times faster PC for the used dollars. But I will admit the mac hardware was quite a bit better (just not as fast) than the PC market.
But the one thing that bugged me constantly, was although the track pad worked in windows, the driver was horrible. At the time (2-3 years ago) there was like a 2000 entry complaint thread on apple about it, including the fact it was a long term problem. Has it gotten any better?
slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
Keying by good vendors is indeed a worthwhile strategy - so you'll get plenty of recommendations for Macs and Thinkpads, which are solid picks in my book. A lot depends on just how & for what you want to use your laptop. Personally, I've become a huge fan of the semi-rugged versions of the Panasonic Toughbook, some of which are in your budget - best laptops I have ever owned. Even the "business" versions (as opposed to MILSPEC models) have all-titanium frame, shock-mounted hard-drive in a quick-release cage, waterproof keyboard, large batteries with high-powered AC adapter, a heavy-duty built-in briefcase-type handle (on many models) and all sorts of other nice features. I specifically recommend the Toughbook 52. They're heavy as bricks, so you won't look cool in a coffeeshop... but these survive getting flopped onto X-ray conveyor belts, jumped up & down on by toddlers, falling off the desk, spilling coffee on the keyboard, etc.... whereas I've killed a couple IBM Thinkpads through the same pattern of abuse. Awesome business laptops.
Other than "it shouldn't get hot", your criteria doesn't make any sense. What do you want to do? Play certain games, word process, read e-mail? The model we recommend depends on what you want to do with it. Specifying the CPU doesn't make any sense without knowing what you want to do with it. Who decides what computer to buy based on hardware specifications these days??
I also can't stress that that if consumer laptops are the only option, DO NOT go to stores like Best Buy or Staples or Walmart to purchase them.
Go online and deal DIRECTLY with the manufacturer. ALWAYS. Here's a classic example:
There was a huge faulty nvidia GPU lawsuit a few years back that affected a slew of laptops causing them to overheat, and I still see these machines fairly often. All the customers who DIDNT buy them from the retailers got a class action settlement, but the ones who bought their junk from Best Buy or what have you were SOL.
Computers sold in a retail setting may be Dells or Acers or HP's, but they have their own unique model numbers TO THAT RETAILER with hardware parts that are difficult to find or incredibly expensive due to short supply. They purposefully do not create a huge inventory of replacement parts for these retail laptops. When you bring them into the Geek Squad or whatever, they don't send them to the manufacturer, they send it to one of the retailer's regional service centers where, if you're lucky, you'll get your component replaced if they have it in stock. Otherwise, you're up fudge creek, and they'll try to sell you a new laptop and/or credit you for the throwaway piece of junk your already purchased.
The HP DV6T seems to fit your criteria and is about $1100 and has an option for a 160GB SSD drive. Most reviews seem to rate it high. They also seem to be rated well on Amazon.
I have a HP DM4T that I haven't had any problems with...
David
I take it your sister is not a designer or media publisher of any sort because then she would be foolish to even ask about PC options. If you sister wants her laptop to seamlessly transition with any of the programs she uses at work and if she wants her children to grow up with a real understanding of computing environment in the corporate world, get a Windows laptop. Seriously consider the fact that Macs are under 10% of the market share in the US. Don't fall for the dual boot nonsense from Apple fanboys (and no doubt stockholders). Why would you get a Mac just run Windows software? It's a hassle when all you need is a PC. I spent $500 on my Acer 17" with mesh finish. It's as quiet as my girlfriend's Macbook Pro, is nearly a pound lighter the Macbook of similar size, and people always give it a second look when I pull it out at airports. You can customize on their site with girly colors, a 256 GB SSD, awesome CPU, and still be well under your $1500 budget. If you choose to go big with a 512 SSD, then you'll likely brush up against the $2000 budget. You will not be afford a SSD with your budget on a Mac. You can always spend a hundred dollars on a secondary insurance site if you're worried about durability.
Stay skeptical, my friends.
I haven't actually used a System76 laptop, but they look really good: https://www.system76.com/laptops/
:)
Their 15.6" Pangolin comes with all your criteria plus more (and even more if you want) except for maybe the heat issue, which I'm unsure about. It's around $1000.
I think it's the way to go. If I had $1,500 to spend, I would probably go straight for their computers.
This is what you would get for (15.6" Pangolin) $974:
Ubuntu 12.04 LTS 64 bit
5 Free GB of Ubuntu One Online Storage and Sync
15.6" 1080p Full High Definition LED Backlit Display with Glossy Surface ( 1920 x 1080 )
Intel HD Graphics 4000
3rd Generation Intel Core i7-3610QM Processor ( 2.30GHz 6MB L3 Cache - 4 Cores plus Hyperthreading )
4 GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz - 1 X 4 GB
500 GB 7200rpm SATA Hybrid Hard Drive with 4 GB SSD +$75.00
8X DVD±R/RW/4X +DL Super-Multi Drive
Intel Centrino 1030 - 802.11 b/g/n Wireless LAN + Bluetooth Combo Module
No Bag
1 Yr. Ltd. Warranty and 1 Yr. Technical Support
I'm sure that'll suite your needs.
How is one supposed to shop for a graphics card in a laptop? From my experience 2 years ago, it seems that if you don't make your own desktop, pick out a graphics card from a spreadsheet, and order it from newegg, it could be a real lemon. The other suggestion I've heard is price: spend enough and you'll get a decent laptop. Is one supposed to look at a benchmark list to see what graphics cards are decent?
Step 1: The biggest problem with laptops are generally reliability. Figure out the reliable brands. Apple, Dell, Toshiba, and oddly Asus generally do well there, and Sony & HP are usually close to last. Start at those manufacturer sites.
Step 2: The major differentiation is in CPU type & Speed. Is it a quad-core i7? an i3? If you're doing video editing or realtime code debugging, you need a top level i7. For gaming, an i5 is fine, and for everyone else an i3 is AOK. Note: Everyone offers laptops in whatever screen size you want. So pick your screen size and ignore the rest. Also, ignore anything over 8 lbs. The weight is never worth it.
Step 3: GPU. If you need a gaming processor, configure the biggest the manufacturer offers. This can never be upgraded, there are no real options, and you can't get it later. So get it. If you don't need gaming, then Great! Nothing else uses the bloody thing, so don't bother.
Step 4: Battery length. It's usually worth splurging on the biggest battery you can find, so configure that into the build. Everyone has a "long" one that lasts about the same length. Look for manufacturers who have battery settings that keep the charge withing 20% min and 80% max... This will greatly extend the lifespan of that extra 100 bucks.
Step 5: Now figure out which setup is the closest to what you want, and go for it! Why haven't I mentioned RAM, Hard drive, software, or other optional extras? Because buying this from the manufacturer is flushing money down the toilet. Buy these after-market.
The ______ Agenda
I had a job in 2009 where my boss promised me a $1000 bonus if I worked longer hours through Christmas holiday time in order to complete a Flash animation for his company's homepage. I decided to take that and buy a laptop. My choice may be considered a silly gamble but Instead of buying new I decided to max out that money and scour Craigslist for the "dream deal". Of all the models in the world I was able to find a fully upgraded Music XPC M-7. This computer is a specially tuned music production desktop replacement based on the Clevo D900C. Brand new and with the grahpics card upgrade (Nvidia 8700m GT) it's sticker price was about $5000. I've since developed countless websites, taken it overseas, played through all the Call of Duty's, typed millions of words, etc. etc. and am typing this comment on the thing (no idea why I'm wasting time here, just procrastinating). I can't say enough about this computer. It's so frigging great. It's about 5 years old and still scores a 6.4 in the Windows 7 rating thingy. I know the price is way more than a MBP but man, you're never going to see anyone budge on the MBP price even on Craigslist. People are still asking 90%+ of new. It's ridiculous. My advice is to get on Craigslist every day until you hit a deal in which the seller really doesn't care to get a fair price and the machine they're selling is lesser known and kick ass. It'll take a while, but it's worth it.
http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Yes Apple's laptops are pricey, but you can still resell it 2 or 3 years later to finance the next one.
Try that with a vanilla brand laptop, even HP or Lenovo.
When have you ever had an Apple product fail you? Never, but you heard about one once on a blog site, so you hate Apple now? In reality, Apple lives up to the hype better than anything else. Have you seen the Windows commercial where a video was taken, uploaded, downloaded, edited, uploaded, then downloaded again within the 30 seconds? How's that going to work out for anyone who tries that?
Learn to love Alaska
Warning it's based on avaiability in the french market, but since this is quite similar today it should still be helpful.
The site is called www.rue-montgallet.com after the name of a popular street with lots of geek friendly shops.
You try http://www.rue-montgallet.com/prix/comparer,portables,700,1,1,1,782=lt1.5,802=10173,1501=23351,min=700,max=1400
I preselected : less than 1.5kg (trust me your sister will be happier with something not too heavy), 1366x768 as requested (i would personally choose a screen size and then try to maximise the definition, I personally have this resolution on my laptop and wish it would be somewhat "taller", i also selected SSD and put the price in the range 700 to 1400€ so that is 1000 to 2000$ (since it includes IVA (sales tax) your price will probably be cheaper so you can splurge on options).
It yields 8 machines 4 Asus 2 HP and 2 Toshiba, I own a Toshiba and am reasonably happy with it, but I would probably choose the Asus which is quite cool looking and since Asus is really it's own ODM it can afford to provide more feature for the price. :-))
I would avoid the i7 unless she really needs it (but then she would probably also need a faster GPU) since it really sucks the battery dry in no time
nb: If you would put in a slighty higher resolution it would have yielded the Asus zenbook UX31 series, which really looks cool
http://usa.asus.com/Notebooks/Superior_Mobility/ASUS_ZENBOOK_UX31E/#specifications
And still fairly cheap. see http://ixsoft.de/cgi-bin/web_store.cgi?ref=Products/de/ASRY009VHW.html (for pre installed Linux version, but in German, so just teasing
Good luck
A great site to filter the available notebook list based on specific criteria is http://www.idealo.co.uk/. I hope you do not mind the prices in sterlings; there is a French and German version available if you prefer euros (once you learn some specific terms like "Festplatte", it's not a problem even if it is in a foreign language, and in any case Google Translate is your friend).
My first program:
Hell Segmentation fault
As someone who regularly has to purchase modern machines, I'll challenge the statement it's exactly the same. Being able to click anywhere on the pad versus a specific point is of tremendous value. It's hard to go back. I'll also state the sensitivity and responsiveness is noticeably different, especially from HP's.
Buying a laptop with an included ssd is ridicolous.
Buy something cheap and simple and functioning like http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-4334DBU-15-6-Inch-Laptop-Black/dp/B007CKQMPI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338109451&sr=8-1 with a separate SSD, preferably a samsung 830 with enough storage for her needs.
In sweden, we have great comparative services, not sure if pricerunner exists in USA, if it does, it filters decently but not great.
And, yeah, buying directly from the big names is hell, it's way easier buying from retailers, at least in sweden.
... don't expect the stuff Lenovo developed by themselves to be as good as the productlines they did when they were still IBM. I'm writing this on an newer IdeaPad with some pretty annoying quirks, noise, heat, keyboard layout, wifi and sd drivers... not exactly IBM quality here.
If so, tell her to go dumpster diving for one - or two, or three. The last time I bought a new laptop was in 2001... after that, not-really-new-but-perfectly-serviceable laptops have miraculously found their way to me, usually by way of someone tiring of it and dumping it on me ('if you can fix it you can have it'). One of them was lying in an actual dumpster, packed in a plastic bag together with the power supply. It just needed a hard drive (which had been removed to protect the innocent, I assume - the machine previously belonged to the municipality) and a few gigs of ram, and voila, one 'business model' HP 2GHz Pentium M, as good as new. I'm typing this on a revived HP dv6000, similarly acquired. Just yesterday I finished repairs on a brand-spanking new but still dumped Acer. This way, I might spend â50,- on a machine. I typically install Debian (for me) or Ubuntu (for those less technically inclined) on them and throw them to the wolves.
And you know what? These machines last... I'm still using that machine I bought new in 2001... the battery still holds power, enough to provide it with its own UPS for when Thor takes out the power lines again (which happens rather frequently around here). That machine was bought at a discount shop in the Netherlands, made by Wistron and sold under the name Medion. In other words, you don't need to spend an arm and a leg for one of those machines with a fruit on it to get something which will last. As a bonus these things are typically easier to maintain and upgrade than the afore-mentioned fruit machines, replacing batteries and drives just takes a switch and/or screw (with normal slit/phillips heads) or two. New parts can be found on the 'net for a pittance so keeping these things running for as long as they are deemed useful is generally not a problem.
On of these previously-owned machines, upgraded with an SSD and possibly some memory (if it has less than 2GB to begin with) sounds like it would service your sister perfectly well. She'll be able to get 10 of them and still not break her budget. Why add to the rubbish heap when you can adopt a perfectly serviceable orphan instead?
--frank[at]unternet.org
Your best value is a used MacBook Pro for your specs.
If you want new, consider dropping the idea of an internal optical drive and go with an external optical drive when needed ($50 to $100). Then depending on how much power vs heat pick either the existing MacBook Air (http://www.apple.com/macbookair/) or wait for the soon (June?) to be released next MacBook Pro (hotter and faster).
Macs last a long time, are more reliable and are easier to use making them a far better value. I have Macs that are over ten years old and running great. I have others on the shelf that are 20 years old that still run, I just don't use them as I replaced them but I keep them around for odd tasks.
The only problem I have with this is the statement that "Intel graphics downright stink." For gaming? Mostly.
Agreed. Gaming is important, however, to those who want to save money by plugging the laptop's HDMI out into a TV instead of having to buy a $300 game console.
The HD3000 that came with SandyBridge (and the new IvyBridge GPU... HD4000?) is good enough to play Diablo 3 pretty well
Ivy Bridge runs Skyrim, a PS3-class game, at playable framerates.
In a way, MacBook batteries are even more proprietary than Dell batteries because they're not user replaceable at all.
Are you sure it wasn't just someone bringing in his iMac to download OS updates because he can't get DSL, cable, or fiber at home? Downloading 4 GB of operating system is hard when sat and cell have 5 GB/mo caps.
How much street cred will a Compal bring you if almost everyone eles thinks it's knockoff of Compaq?
Five years ago we got my niece a Dell Vostro 1500 (the business version of the Inspiron 1520). It was getting really long in the tooth and she was considering getting a new laptop. After doing a little research I discovered that the Vostro 1500 is one of the most upgradable laptops out there. Using a combination of craigslist, newegg, and amazon I was able to perform the following upgrades for a total of $203:
Battery: 6-cell -> 9-cell (the old one had died long ago)
Storage: 5400RPM HDD (160GB) -> SSD (90GB)
Memory: 2GB -> 4GB
CPU: Intel T5270 @1.4GHz (65nm) -> Intel T9500 @2.6GHz (45nm)
Optical: DVD/CD-RW -> DVD-RW
I could have added bluetooth, a blu-ray player, or even upgraded the graphics card (!), but there was no pressing need (and I was trying to stay under $200). My goal is that she gets another two years out of it.
I guess my point is that, even though some of these upgrades aren't for the faint of heart, upgradability is something to consider.
Either placebo effect, or you have a serious health problem. Both companies use essentially the same tech after patent issues were sorted out years ago. Responsiveness is largely the same. You can set customizable "touch zones" on even my crappy 350€ HP laptop at will.
Seriously, stop comparing modern macs to seven-ten year old laptops.
...second buy whatever the right screen size is that she wants for under $500. If she doesn't like it, take it back and now that you know what she didn't like, get whatever else is on sale that suits her.
Don't waste your money on 'business grade' or supposed 'high end' laptops. They're made on the same assembly lines by the same people using largely the same parts, which is why you keep finding so much similarity. While one might make a specific quality argument for a more expensive model, generally you can buy two cheap ones for the price of one of the models meant largely to impress the people watching you use it. So buy one now and in 3 years, buy whatever the state of the art cheap laptop is at that time.
The latest and greatest? Why? My two most used and reliable laptops are a Lenovo T42 and T42p running Linux. I use one machine to back up the other. And my T42p (bought a few months ago) came at a cost of $31 on ebay (+$15 shipping). They are virtually indestructible computers (as opposed to HP, but that's another story). Not that this is the right choice for everyone, but there's more to computing than games.
I think the problem is that there _is_ no ideal laptop. One needs balance weight against battery life against performance, keyboard touch, durability, cost, etc. The question might be: what will the laptop be mainly used for.
There are stores selling refurbished business laptops. Those are typically older and have broken batteries, but fully sufficient for the average consumer who doesn't need a battery anyhow.
I've got a vostro at home and a latitude at work. Both "just work" out of the box. The vostro switches hdmi properly with no tweaking under Win7, and the latitude runs linux well including triple monitor support when using the dock.
I've had great performance with a Lenovo W520, using it for work. Nice sale for Memorial day
That's an insane budget considering the power that can be had for half that or less. I'd suggest grabbing something for around $500 and book a vacation with the remaining $1500
You are paying the same for the same hardware. Apple is not more expensive. I just speced myself a laptop similar to a Macbook Pro, and the non-Apples came in as more expensive. Of course, the solution to that was tweak the specifications to cut the price in half without any noticeable decrease in performance.
But I'll take your comment to be "no, I've never had an Apple product fail me, but I still don't like them, so I'll make up whatever I need to agree with my opinion on them."
Learn to love Alaska
I just bought a laptop online. It looked great on paper, had a great keyboard, and within 10 minutes it was driving me crazy. I hadn't bought a laptop since LED backlighting took over, and it turns out that there's now Yet Another Hidden Specification you have to check for.
Most manufacturers (not Apple) use pulse-width modulation (PWM) to control the backlight brightness. When you set the brightness to less than 100%, the backlight LEDs will be pulsing at some fixed frequency (perhaps 200-700 Hz) and a duty cycle determined by your brightness setting. (Some laptops may pulse the backlight even at 100% brightness, depending on the backlight LEDs.)
The problem is the laptops with a PWM frequency closer to 200 Hz than 700. This is above your eye's flicker-fusion threshold, so if you're staring directly at the screen you won't see any blinking. But when your eyes are moving over text, instead of getting a nice clean motion blur, they'll get a few distinct copies of the letters. This makes the screen look blurry in a weird indefinable way that can drive you crazy. (It gives me headaches.) At higher PWM frequencies, your eye sees something closer to a true motion blur, and the problem decreases.
The problem is much worse with LED backlights than CCFLs, because the CCFLs respond more slowly to the PWM pulses, so the brightness ramps up and down more evenly. LEDs respond quickly, producing clean, sharp pulses.
Unfortunately, no manufacturer seems to list the backlight PWM frequency in their specifications. Luckily, it's not too difficult to test if you have the laptop in front of you. Go to a store and look at the demo laptops. Bring up a mostly-white screen (e.g. a web browser displaying about:blank), then turn down the backlight to 50%. Wave your hand back and forth in front of the screen as fast as you can. You probably won't see a nice clean motion blur unless you're looking at a Mac. Instead you'll see many distinct outlines of your fingers. If you see a lot of outlines, spaced close together, the backlight is decent. If you see a few, spaced far apart, beware! I tried this earlier this week at my local Best Buy, and only a few laptops had a PWM frequency higher than the one that was giving me headaches.
This article explains the problem in more detail, including instructions for using a digital camera to find the actual PWM frequency of your monitor.
I suggest you check out Puget Systems http://www.pugetsystems.com/. Theie prices might be a bit high, but they make up for that with superior customer service and, their systems have lifetime tech support/service lifetime warranty. Theiy are a Windoze shop, but they do know (and are not afraid of) Linux. I purchased one of their high-end laptops a few months back, and have nothing but goot things to say about their product.
Before you look at any models, ask your sister one question: what does she plan to use the laptop for?
Take note of the following: -workload: will the laptop be primarily for web/media consumption, office documents work, programming, video editing, or (the most demanding of all) gaming? This determines the performance of the laptop that you require, and therefore the CPU/GPU configuration, storage requirement, and size of the laptop you can get.
-portability: is the laptop going to be carried around a lot? A lot of laptops actually don't travel much beyond different rooms in your house, versus in a business-use scenario where it goes from home to work to meetings every day, this determines how large the laptop can be before your user get tired of carrying it. Also consider battery life: a lot if the time a travelling laptop will also be used on battery a lot more often than a stationary one, further limiting your choices (you may have to settle for low-voltage processors, integrated graphics etc.)
-durability: is this laptop going to take some punishment? As soon as you answer yes to this your list shrinks by 80% (Lenovo ThinkPads, Panasonic Toughbooks, selected Fujitsu and Dell models, and MacBook Pros in a pinch)
-longevity: how long does your user typically keep their computers before upgrading? This is a tough one for a lot of home users to answer, but knowing this allows you to save money if the usage period is.short and you don't need the latest and greatest to get the work done.
-special user requirements: does the user have something specific that they want, like a good webcam/speakers, pointer stick, a screen with at least a certain resolution, or just that they like a certain brand? This again cuts down your list of choices.
If all else fails, just being them to store and let them play with the laptops. Your user is going to use the laptop a lot, so it's very important that they're happy with using it. Don't just buy for power or best bang for the buck, it's pointless if the user hates using it.
Do they not own the patents any more, were they invalidated or worked around? 17 years or whatever doesn't seem to have passed since the magic mouse or whatever iGadget it was that come out with touch first. I realize years of development but by my guess there should still be 10 years or so left on that patent. I think with the iPhone it was more of Apple locked down all the suppliers and then sold like hotcakes sucking up all potential supply for a year or two. It wasn't a patent issue I don't think just supplier issue (if you have a contract saying I get all the widgets I want first and you start using a lot of widgets the suppliers can't give any to anyone else).
I can't remember what happened exactly (there was a big mess with many companies suing apple on multitouch patents many years ago), but I think they either agreed to license everything, patents expired or got invalidated. Regardless, the tech apple uses for multitouch is essentially the same as everyone else. This was not the case some 7 or so years ago, which is where "apple is the only one with good multitouch trackpad" meme originated. And it was true for a while, long ago.
In essence, this is not unlike saying that "AMD has a shitty floating point efficiency, if you want to play games you need intel". It was true up to and including K6, and then it ceased being true when they released K7.
and say goodbye to playing sysadmin and hardware tech for your sister.
You owe it to YOURSELF.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
That would be easiest for most light duty use.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
All these suggestions are just about as confusing as the dang manufacturers!!! I like www.hardware-revolution.com. These guys recently changed their website to be more graphical. The old site was ugly, but there were just specifications listed, broken down by price and color coded. Period. It was easy to scan and choose the right components. That being said, the site is excellent for information all in one location. They have standard rating guidelines and easily searchable categories like, "Ultra-portable laptops" or "The best gaming laptops for your money". They clearly list the qualifications for their decisions. It's a great place to go for the nuts and bolts...no fan boy crap or touting one brand over another...all specs, all the time.
Moderated troll, just because someone doesn't like ripoff prices and aluminum, the worst metal to use in a laptop casing besides tin? I'll stick with my magnesium alloy.
OK I only kid a bit.
Seriously, buy a desktop, and a smartphone or tablet.
Unless you are really doing a lot of work on the road you don't need a laptop. If you do work at home, but want to browse email or web while having coffee at a trendy cafe, then get a tablet or smart phone.
Probably cost less also.
The big question other that the stupid requirements that were listed, is what is the damn thing going to be used for. Unless you can tell someone that, their buying advice is going to be useless.
My advice to you it you are set to this course, go down to your local BesyBuy/Futureshop/Source whatever ask someone there, and they will fix you up with something you want. Also what is with your budget? 2k with no dedicated video? Are you kidding me? Go get an i5 whatever from the above places with whatever screen size you want for about 5-700$.
Oh and please don't do the apple fanboi's a favor... ugh.
Reinstall windows.
Or at least that is what they tried to tell me when the battery went to crap after 10 months.
Fight Spammers!
Word... Spend half as much and upgrade in half the time. The only reason to spend more than $700 on a laptop is to get a decent video card, which submitty specifically excluded. Unfortunately, the only way to "narrow the field" is to look for a decent video card... that laptop market is still woefully small.
OTOH, the only reason to get a desktop is also to get a decent video card. Besides, it's easier to repurpose an old laptop as a bathroom netflix / social media feed / etc. Even low-end budget computers are fast enough these days. The only activities that take a "long time" such as video transcoding will continue to take a "long time" whether it takes an hour or 15 minutes.
Toshiba seems to have a good reputation for reliability, but don't shy away from a Dell / HP if you have a workplace / source to get replacement parts easily.