Slashdot Mirror
New Cyberbullying Evidence Rules May Go Too Far
An anonymous reader writes "The Malaysian Government has recently passed an amendment to their Evidence Act that has been designed to hold cyber bullies accountable for their malicious tirades on blogs or Facebook Walls. Unfortunately, the amendment has been worded such that 'If your name, photograph or pseudonym appears on any publication depicting yourself as the author, you are deemed to have published the content' and 'If a posting comes from your Internet or phone account, you are deemed to be the publisher unless the contrary is proved.' What these raft of amendments have done is shifted the burden of proof to the accused. One is considered guilty until proven innocent. Even the simple act of posting an offending message on a friend's Facebook Wall could get that friend, and not the original poster, into trouble with this law. Although the amendments were initiated by good intentions, a conspiracist can see how easily this law can be misused to curb dissent in Malaysia."
Indeed, so the solution is to post something defamatory about the king using a picture and the name of one of the politicians or lawlords who passed this bill, then they'll be able to see the obvious flaw in their plan.
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
I still don't get why people seem to insist on different laws for "cyber" something versus "in real life" something. Bullying is bullying. Threats are threats. Adjust your existing laws accordingly, but they should cover both things the same way.
For anybody who wants a basic overview of Malay law regarding these matters, there's an issue of the Malayan Law Journal (actually an article supplement) that covers this in language easily understood by the layperson (and it's also in English, to boot). The PDF is located here: http://jeraldgomez.com/pdf/7cd40a1889d4539feffda786372ff33b.pdf and I would point you to page 3 (page 4 of the PDF).
Basically, they are based on English Common Law, and signed the UDHR, but have a history of legislation that allows detention without trial, originally designed to combat communism.
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
When I visited Thailand, I got the impression that most Thais love their monarchy and didn't think that the law was unfair.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Sure, and when I steal a screwdriver from your unlocked garden shed, you should be held legally responsible when I later break in to your house to stab some sense in to your head. Do we really want requirements for holding online accounts to be akin to owning guns?
One teacher says something stupid in a classroom, we extrapolate as if it's federal law. Someone points out that this is dumb and someone else cites something completely different as an example of the first. Unwashed dolt comes out of the woodwork to tell us how communism is the answer... thread spins down the rabbit hole.
I'm asian and not a lawyer. However it is well known that the accuse here bear a some burden of proof. And you are not allowed to be represented by a lawyer while under investigation/interrogation. US laws do not apply here. I'm referring to general legal matters not referring specifically to the Internal Security Act which allow detention without trial.
That's Thailand, but don't let that put you off avoiding Malaysia as a holiday destination. Malaysia has Islam has its state religion, but claims to offer freedom of religion. Now, as you can imagine I don't agree with Islam, yet I'm sanguine on the whole thing. Sure, I spent the best part of a day nailed to a tree for these people, and they then go off following some schizophrenic local warlord. Sorry, that seems really ungrateful to me, and don't get me started on those Mormons and their crazy notion that they'll one day become space gods.
They have freedom of religion, yet by law Malaysians of a certain ethnic original are automatically Muslims. Under some pretty common interpretations of Islam, to leave Islam is to be invite death. Yes, great freedom of religion there. Next time I come to Earth I'll sure want a nice holiday before I get back to work. I know Thailand and Malaysia are pretty low on the list of places I'd like to visit, and so they should be for anyone not wanting their money to support these guys who make my old neighbors in Nazareth (you know who you are!) seem progressive by comparison.
They tend to forget these things in their tourism adverts. To be fair, the U.S. rarely mentions the genital groping TSA when looking for tourists, and they rarely publicize the notion of "constitution free zones" wherever Bush/Obama decide that discarding freedom in the face of a marginal and unlikely threat is the right thing to do. Perhaps Spain is where I'll head to. Good food (the olives in Heaven are disappointing) and wines, and the women are exceptional if you can stand the tempers.
JC
That's not a bug, it's a feature.
Replace "you" with "politician with an axe to grind" and "lawlord" with "dissident"
I believe the discussion was about the allegations of Romney's bullying someone in high school. The teacher went ballistic when someone suggested Obama might have done something similar. And if you listen carefully you can hear the teacher say "Bush was a shitty president".
You should be responsible for what happens on your internet connection and online accounts...
The Internet wouldn't be economically viable if you applied that rule equally to everyone, because no company could risk the liability of providing any form of large-scale transit service.
You could set some arbitrary dividing line somewhere on the scale from 'householder' to 'multinational telecoms corporation', but why should they have greater protection under the law when they provide a service to me, than I have providing a service to my family?
(Not counting the obvious answer that they have more money to pay lobbyists ...)
article is in the NY (com)Post, i wouldn't worry too much about it.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
I think you're probably thinking of Thailand.
Aberrations have appeared in my destiny prognostication engine!
Not at all, we just had a politician who committed what might, to the untrained eye, look like fraud, but she's been held to account and it turns out it wasn't fraud at all, it was an "oversight". Not above the law at all, just remarkably bouyant is all.
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
What if you use the picture and name of the king himself? Will he get arrested for insulting himself?
http://youtu.be/qXbXFJxltyo
Nuff Said...
Kinda curious on how they intend to apply this "law" to somebody OUTSIDE Malaysia "cyber-bullying" someone inside Malaysia.. The denizens of /. know how well laws like this work when applied to a world-wide medium like the internet, namely THEY DON'T!! I guess the old wisdom that you have to have 75% of your brain removed, 100% of your honesty to become a politician is true..
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
Then use fire to fight fire. Use the name of the president (or whoever is in charge of the government there) to slander the king and watch them duke it out.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Is that the online version of "stop hitting yourself"?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
And now think what a beowulf cluster of those could accomplish!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
this whole cyber-bullying is nonsense. It needn't ever have been anything more than standard slander and libel laws which already existed.
I certainly can't say that I made it through my childhood without being bullied. But minus the actual bruises, I'd never suggest that I'd be better off without the bullies.
Quite frankly, the amount of adult insulting I've received from family, friends, and clients for having spent a real amount of money on trees is for more offensive than anything from my school days. Probably because I've long since learned to ignore other people's opinions.
Guess where I learned that lesson. Guess when.
It has the same face, and I grew up during the Cold War, you'll pardon me if its hard to see a distinction.
Good-bye
Isn't Malaysia the country where you can be arrested for insulting the king? Who cares about whether this law "goes too far"?
Did you just insult the king and his laws?
But then why do they feel they need the law? If almost no-one will defame the king, isn't it easier to just, say, ignore the fools that don't love him?
How inappropriate to call this planet Earth, when clearly it is Ocean.
There is no dissent in Malaysia. Everyone there tells me so.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
And absolutely nothing of value was lost^h^h^h^hcreated.
True story, it happened in Malaysia:
A Mongolia female was blown to smithereens with C4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Shaariibuugiin_Altantuyaa
The Prime Minister of Malaysia, Najib Razak, is linked to the murder
That murder occurred in 2006
6 years have passed. Najib Razak is still not charged with the murder
In other words, in Malaysia, whether or not you are charged for a crime has nothing to do with whether or not you have committed that criminal act
If the authority says that you are guilty, even if you are truly innocent, you are still guilty.
That's the Malaysian way of "justice"
Just in case you wonder, in this respect, Malaysia is actually worse than China
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Not at all, we just had a politician who committed what might, to the untrained eye, look like fraud, but she's been held to account and it turns out it wasn't fraud at all, it was an "oversight"
In Malaysia, corruption is so rampant that they actually spent 250 Million local currency (about 100 Million USD) to raise 3,000 cows
When that matter was exposed, that female politician, the one who got the generous 250 Million gift, insisted that she's not guilty of anything
And in deed, she was NOT guilty of anything - for in Malaysia, as long as you are a part of the ruling elite, you can corrupt away and the authority will use the word "oversight" to explain away how the money was lost
After that, case closed !
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
It will be used exclusively against people who criticize Islam.
Perhaps Spain is where I'll head to. Good food (the olives in Heaven are disappointing) and wines, and the women are exceptional if you can stand the tempers.
I'd go for Portugal instead. Similar, but with all the drugs decriminalized.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
And In Soviet Russia, nothing of value creates you.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
And now think what a beowulf cluster of those could accomplish!
A slashdot mirror?
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
And if you listen carefully you can hear the teacher say "Bush was a shitty president".
Actually, I think the teacher said "Bush was a sitting president."
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
Because none of this is true. The king of Thailand has very significant political influence - none of the military coups during his reign happened without his approval. He comes out against those defamation laws occasionally because it looks better when he does. If he really didn't want these laws to exist they wouldn't be there, though.
Yes, most Thais do love the king, but that's partly because the actual role of the king can't be discussed.
Isn't Malaysia the country where you can be arrested for insulting the king? Who cares about whether this law "goes too far"?
When you say "the country" you seem to be implying that there is only one country were "lese-majesty" is a crime. That is not the case. Also, I cannot find any evidence that even a single person has been arrested for "lese-majesty" in Malaysia. At least in modern times. Do you have a reference?
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Cold wind in Portugal.
Come to Spain. Sit with us. Speak English all week. Eat English all week. Drink English all week.
South of Spain: It's England with better weather (not today or yesterday or the day before - gee it's hot here. We also have better beaches in England.).
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
We're not talking about random people on the internet that insult you because of something you wrote, we're talking about people you KNOW in real life that smear every single one of your online precenses with hate messages, racial slander, sexual references and so on.
In the case of Facebook and most instant messaging services, there's always an ignore/block feature that helps people deal with that. I can't really say I have much sympathy for a victim of cyberbullying if he doesn't make use of the available tools to block such people from contacting him online.
In case of fire, do not use elevator. Use water!
this is common faire in the US. When I was in high school, we held a mock election like every other school. We were instructed to vote "democrat" OR "republican", one third of the school wrote in "ralph nader" instead, but they publicly annouced on the loudspeaker that it was not acceptable to vote for a third party so the votes would be thrown out, and students reprimanded. But this was some time ago, when both major parties where amicable enough publicly to tolerate their each other's existance. It seems today both sides favor a single party state wtih two competing narratives
Cyber or not, the solution is the same: Turn the tables. Bully back! Make the bully the victim. It works like a charm.
Just be prepared to go to any length necessary in order to match and respond in kind.
Example: The bully beats up weaker kids and steal their lunch money (classic).
Solution: Beat up the bully and steal all his money. Bigger brothers of the weak kid are the best to use here, but parents and even the odd biker will do. Just lay it on him and don't hold back. Make sure the bully knows that he asked for it and if he goes to anyone, he'll get it much worse next time.
Example: The bully uses psychological means only to intimidate the victim, and this happens at a school.
Solution: Respond in kind! My elementary school equivalent teacher actually did this and for about a week he singled out the bully and ran him hard while making sure that the pupil knew that this only happened because of what the bully had done. The result: No bullying at all for the rest of the years until we moved on to high school.
It's all about making to bully know and feel how it is to be the victim. If the bully turns out to be a sociopath unable to make the empathic connection he'll do something really stupid and then just let the police handle it. With any luck his career as a menace to society is over before it even began and he'll spend his life locked up in institutions where he belongs.
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --