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Microsoft's Office 365 For Government Heralds New Google Fight

Posted by Soulskill on from the whether-the-bear-wins-or-the-fox-wins-the-rabbit-loses dept.

Nerval's Lobster writes "In a bid to expand the reach of its cloud services, Microsoft has introduced Office 365 for Government, which features the same cloud-based productivity tools as Office 365 but stores data in a segregated community cloud. Google and Microsoft have been locked in vicious battle over the past few years to score cloud contracts for government agencies. Microsoft hopes its support of standards such as ISO 27001, SAS70 Type II, HIPAA, FERPA, and FISMA will help to give it an edge in winning those contracts."

112 comments

  1. I'm hoping for microsoft by noh8rz3 · · Score: 0, Troll

    As a consultant who works with govt often, I really really hope that microsoft wins this battle. Right now all our document production is office based, and if we need to account for an entirely new office suite (google docs) then it's another magnitude of (nonbillable) complexity.

    1. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As a consultant who works on projects for govt, I hate Office 2007 and it's "collaboration" features which are pretty much non-existant. I would love to use Google Docs but we cannot due to the proprietary nature of our work. I'm pretty sure there's an Enterprise edition of Docs that can run more locally but I work for a Big Company (TM) so getting such software is probably impossible. I'm just waiting for Office 2011, which I THINK they're rolling out on the new Win 7 machines. Still running XP personally.

    2. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Sez+Zero · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, because using a different program to read and write a Microsoft .doc is so utterly complex we all might as well give up.

    3. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      well, you're exactly right. if your word file is a grocery list, then it doesn't matter if its .txt, .docx, or whatever. But when your files start to get extraordinarily complex (hundred+ pages, tables, figs, headers, footnotes, track changes, comments), then translating from .docx to something else will be a mess and you might as well give up.

      Maybe that's the strongest reason for them not to be in proprietary formats.

    4. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by poetmatt · · Score: 2

      You'd be surprised how easily people learn google docs vs office. It's a matter of magnitudes difference in how easy it is to teach people google docs, not to mention that so many more people have gmail than hotmail it's just making life easier.

    5. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a consultant who works with govt often, I really really hope that microsoft wins this battle. Right now all our document production is office based, and if we need to account for an entirely new office suite (google docs) then it's another magnitude of (nonbillable) complexity.

      If I understand what you are saying, it is to keep using a broken system, because fixing it is too much of a pain. I would normally expect to hear that from politicians, but not the consultants themselves.

      What I would like to see is the government demand open formats so that they aren't locked in to any one vendor's product because the conversion cost of the documents themselves is too high.

    6. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a consultant who works on projects for govt, I hate Office 2007 and it's "collaboration" features which are pretty much non-existant.

      You mean your clients haven't paid for the collaboration capabilities. With the right version of the suite, it offers both Groove-based collaboration and collaboration via SharePoint Server. In fact, all Office 365 really offers in this department is a hosted instance of SharePoint, but you still have to set it up how you want it. Funny thing about electronic collaboration tools, though -- if nobody else is going to use them, then there's no point in you using them, either.

      I'm just waiting for Office 2011, which I THINK they're rolling out on the new Win 7 machines.

      Office 2011 is a Mac version. You mean either Office 2010 or the version that will be coming Any Day Now.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    7. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More people have hotmail than any other email provider...

    8. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by noh8rz3 · · Score: 0

      wow, I'm not sure how I could be modded down -1 redundant when I have fp! moderation fail. lash out much?

    9. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uh, office 2011 and win 7? Pretty tricky to run office 2011 on win 7...

    10. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe that's the strongest reason for them not to be in proprietary formats.

      Agreed. It amazes me how eager so many businesses in this country are content to allow something so important to be forever chained to another company's software and standards.

      I realize that not everyone can afford to design their own software from the ground up, but there exist open standards, and the lack of adoption in the community at large doesn't seem logical to me. You'd think everyone would want their data to at least have archival copies in non-proprietary formats just in case. I know I would if I were making these sorts of decisions.

    11. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by noh8rz3 · · Score: 0

      again, you're absolutely right. It would be awesome if somebody made an open format where all these complex features would be 100% portable. in the meantime, my firm bills by the hour, and I have a fixed budget. so every hour my team spends futzing with formatting is an hour we dont spend on actual work. so for this reason i mandate office 2007 / 2010 for all participants.

    12. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Part of the insidious nature of lock-in is that there is a tendency of some users to see it as its own form of 'normal', with the more open options being the source of the pain or expected pain incident to breaking out of the lock-in.

      Have you never considered that Google Docs can be edited in place and thus don't have to be passed around, or constantly uploaded and downloaded? Or that if one really insists on using a local editor, the standard-compliant ones virtually remove the iterative formatting errors incident to this kind of portability?

    13. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by noh8rz3 · · Score: 0

      my comment isn't about the simple-use cases which admittedly are 50%+ of all users. But when your files start to get extraordinarily complex (hundred+ pages, tables, figs, headers, footnotes, track changes, comments), then it's not just a matter of teaching google docs vs. office. also, umm, at 99% of workplaces they don't use google gmail, they use outlook. so using office is making life easier.

    14. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by noh8rz3 · · Score: 1

      again, you're absolutely right. the system is broken, and it would be awesome if somebody else fixed it. in the meantime, my firm bills by the hour, and I have a fixed budget. so every hour my team spends futzing with formatting is an hour we dont spend on actual work. so for this reason i mandate office 2007 / 2010 for all participants.

    15. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      Why is the first post modded -1 redundant?
      Stupid moderators.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    16. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by geek · · Score: 1

      You should be fired for propagating the problem instead of solving it.

    17. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by noh8rz3 · · Score: 1

      no, i should be promoted for focusing on business opportunities rather than wasting energy on things that don't provide revenue. someone else can solve this problem.

    18. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      I find it interesting that the parent said almost exactly the same thing you did, but chose MS's side rather than Google's. He got downvoted, you got upvoted.

      I hate MS more than most around here, but this censorship by the trol^w mods needs to end.

    19. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The nightmare wrt google docs is writing a doc in word, passing it to google docs for somebody's editing,

      That's the nightmare for ANYONE trying to inter-operate with Microsoft.

      And since it's the result of deliberate efforts by Microsoft to fight open standards, it should result in them being banned from government tenders.

      http://www.adjb.net/post/Microsoft-Fails-the-Standards-Test.aspx
      http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/index.php?topic=20051116124417686
      http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2012/04/1how-microsoft-fought-true-open-standards-i/index.htm

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    20. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by cavreader · · Score: 1

      I would make one small recommendation which is to replace "hate" and "love" with "useful" and "non-useful" as it relates to your particular needs. "Love" and "Hate" often means those who decide what system or technology to use are going to use without even bothering looking at any alternatives they have seen software described using the word "hate". There are pluses and minuses to all software technology today and you are better served making an in-depth examination of all your choices before start labeling something using descriptions such as "hate". You personally might already do this type of review but there are still a lot of knuckleheads out there that read these types of descriptions and then ignore any alternative systems out of hand.

    21. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Probably because you keep repeating the same thing in every reply. Maybe you need to understand what redundant means?

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    22. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by funkyjam · · Score: 1

      Exactly, we need a standard format kind of like HTML for web pages. Once we have that then every tool for editing those documents will render everything exactly the same and all our problems will be solved! I know we had some problems with browsers, but it's gonna be different with document editing software, I swear.

    23. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by noh8rz3 · · Score: 1

      yes, my replies have been a little redundant because people keep making branching comment sub-threads on the same sub-topics. But my first post isn't redundant! see, I do know what rudundant means...

    24. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by hawguy · · Score: 2

      As a consultant who works on projects for govt, I hate Office 2007 and it's "collaboration" features which are pretty much non-existant.

      You mean your clients haven't paid for the collaboration capabilities. With the right version of the suite, it offers both Groove-based collaboration and collaboration via SharePoint Server. In fact, all Office 365 really offers in this department is a hosted instance of SharePoint, but you still have to set it up how you want it. Funny thing about electronic collaboration tools, though -- if nobody else is going to use them, then there's no point in you using them, either.

      What is this Sharepoint based collaboration? When our Sharepoint admin said we were going to get collaboration for Office Docs via Sharepoint, I assumed it was live sharing like Google Docs, where multiple people could edit documents simultaneously, but what it turned out to be is a version control system - one person can check out and edit the doc while others can only get a read-only copy until that person checks it in.

      Our admin said this is way Office collaboration works. Maybe I've been spoiled by Google, but is it true that Office collaboration in Sharepoint is just a version control system?

    25. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is the first post modded -1 redundant? Stupid moderators.

      It's pro-Microsoft...duh. I'm surprised there's not a raft of posts calling him a "shill". In fact the first response seems to be pretty much the same but in favor of Google instead, but that gets modded (as of now) +4 while the OP is "Troll".

    26. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      SP 2010 also lets documents be edited in place (it runs the same web apps as Office 365 does).

    27. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

      Technically if you are doing THAT much formatting you should be using Pagemaker or LaTex. That is what journals and print houses use... MS Word is just a fancier toy compared to those.

    28. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by JazzLad · · Score: 1

      Just an anecdote, but everyone I know with a Hotmail account has had it forever & just uses it as a spam account now. In other words, numbers aren't everything.

      --
      "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
    29. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Larryish · · Score: 2

      MS + .gov + standards = HERP-A-DERP

    30. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, i should be promoted for focusing on business opportunities rather than wasting energy on things that don't provide revenue. someone else can solve this problem.

      To paraphrase into different context: i should be promoted for cheaply dumping the toxic sludge in the river rather than figuring out how to clean it and render it safely inert. Since the government won't regulate this and is bought and paid for by companies like mine, nyah-nyah I'll see you all dead while I'm gasping my last breath.

      Winning!

    31. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by noh8rz3 · · Score: 0

      that's the rub, isn't it. I'm not an editor or formatter. I'm a content creator. My goal is to spend 99% of my time creating content and 1% of my time editing. Word is a great tool for content creators. pagemaker is a great tool for editors. latex is a great tool for... grad students?

    32. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It must be a fucking nightmare using Word for that. Word is not a desktop publishing program. The first thing Word does when it opens a document is re-format it for the default printer. You can't stop it doing that with any amount of tables, widow-orphan control or anything else. I'm glad I don't have to collaborate with you, because you ain't no ninja, pal!

    33. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're talking about desktop publishing, which Word is completely shit at, especially if you have to collaborate with other people.

    34. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anarchduke · · Score: 1

      If you are only spending 1% of the time editing the content you create, I shudder to think of how bad your content must suck.

      --
      who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
    35. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anarchduke · · Score: 1

      Or you could find an actual working solution then you won't have to waste your valuable time limping along with a broken system. And I've used word long enough that if your people are using word for 8 hours a day, I can almost guarantee they are futzing around trying to keep word from futzing their formatting over.

      --
      who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
    36. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anarchduke · · Score: 1

      and yet you are surprised you were down-voted for being redundant. too bad there isn't a -1 dumb-ass option.

      --
      who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
    37. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Branciforte · · Score: 0

      I work at Google. We use Google Docs internally for everything, including long, complex design documents with tables, figures, headers, footnotes, change tracking, and comments. And equations and tables and scripting and a built-in research tool, and so on. And we can all work on documents simultaneously while watching each other make changes and respond to out-of-band comments and collaborate via Hangouts which are part of our VC system. Maybe you just don't know how to use Google Docs.

      As for bouncing things back and forth, we don't have to. We collaborate all in one document. The only reason you have to bounce things back and forth is because Office doesn't have real collaboration. As for trying to convert back and forth between Office and Docs, yes that would suck, because Microsoft intentionally designed their system to not play well with others. In fact, they actively subvert any attempt to develop an open standard for documents.

    38. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Inda · · Score: 1

      I can't tell you what version of Sharepoint we're using on Office 2007, but it's been nothing but poor version control since 2003, but now with added workflow! UserX has finished work on the document, would you like to...

      Collaboration means employing someone to cut and paste all the sections and chapters into a 500 page report*.

      Neat!

      *I know master documents can be used. I even created a fully working template for this company. If only the rest of the non-tech workers could remember how styles work - there are only a dozen in my template *facepalm*. The style for numbered bullets is named "Numbered bullets" ffs. It was trashed very early on.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    39. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by noh8rz3 · · Score: 1

      Don't be obtuse. I mean copy editing and layout. The kind of stuff you pay somebody $20/hr to do, and in a year or two will farm out piecemeal.

    40. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by noh8rz3 · · Score: 1

      We _have_ a working solution. It's not perfect, but it's our best option given the costs of switching. Somebody else can solve the world's ills I.e. lack of word processor interoperability.

    41. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by noh8rz3 · · Score: 1

      Jesus you're stalking me. You're being purposefully obtuse so let me repeat slowly. My _first post_ was marked redundant almost immediately. My subsequent posts, although covering the same topics (because people like you were chasing me through the thread) were not marked redundant. Just admit it - you hate Microsoft, and you hate anybody who says anything nice about them. Even if it's logical and supported.

    42. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Responding to my own post.. I got upvoted to interesting, then knocked back down. Are you guys like 12?

    43. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      99% of workplaces don't use google gmail?

      You'd be surprised what every single employee does on their computer. I can say with absolute certainly that google mail is heavily used at any employment location for personal mail anyway, unless it's explicitly blocked.

    44. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't comment on the situation in other countries but most UK govt IT procurement / systems are overseen by people who don't have the faintest clue about technology, tendering, contracts or anything else in this domain. Key is not to be exposed to ridicule by attention-seeking politicians on the Public Accounts Committee. The only defences are (a) bought the cheapest and (b) bought from a Well-Known Company - the last is not a defence in itself but carries with it the recognition that as the WKC will have people who have the ear of the relevant Minister(s), any mocking of the Govt's friends (it's OK to mock the Civil Service) will ensure that said PAC members will NEVER have a Ministerial career.

    45. Re:I'm hoping for microsoft by EnderDom · · Score: 1

      The idea that Microsoft Office is like a knight in shining armour to lead all from the mire of formatting chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was Microsoft Office that led them all into it in the first place.

  2. FIPS by Dr.+Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I like how FIPS-140 isn't mentioned as a supported standard.
    Yeah, use our cloud, it's probably secure.

    1. Re:FIPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FIPS140 is a stupid standard. I had to help a client "downgrade" to a FIPS validated 3DES library vs. an AES one that wasn't FIPS. Yes...lots of people who attempt to build their own crypto suck at it because they don't know their math, but still how many cloud providers are trying to create their own crypto?

    2. Re:FIPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft Windows has built-in FIPS validated cryptographic libraries since Windows 2000 Service Pack 2. I'm certain they meet that requirement. I know of numerous software companies that build off those libraries so that their application meets FIPS requirements for government agencies.

    3. Re:FIPS by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      None of them?

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    4. Re:FIPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically, FISMA is what gives FIPS 140-2 its power, so theoretically, FedRAMP certification for FISMA would carry over to FIPS 140-2. As you may know, there are multiple levels of 140-2 (1-4), just as there are multiple levels of FISMA compliance (Low, Moderate, High). That said, the only level where I *know* that applies is FISMA High, which no one has claimed yet. I believe that there are 140-2 Level 1 compliance requirements in FISMA Moderate, but I don't actually know that for a fact.

      To your point, none of the cloud providers -- not one -- is FedRAMP certified, mostly because FedRAMP hasn't reported out yet. So, it's great that 365 for Government is here, and Google for Government, and Amazon has claimed FISMA Moderate for some of its services, etc, etc, etc. But none of them can be officially used yet without a waiver. All of the procurements that have happened to date (GSA, Interior, VA) have all been under waiver, and not without a huge amount of scrutiny to boot. That's why everyone claims *compliance* (HIPAA, FISMA, SOX, GLB), but not *certfication* (FIPS 140-2, FIPS 201, UC APL, FedRAMP). When/if they actually do get certified, whoever's first to market will champion it from the rooftops.

    5. Re:FIPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, no. FIPS 140-2 requires much more than use of a FIPS 197-or FIPS 201 compliant module. The overwhelming majority of products that claim FIPS compliance only feature third-party modules and do not remotely incorporate the documentation or independent certified laboratory validation necessary to meet even the minimum standards for 140-2.

    6. Re:FIPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FIPS140 is a stupid standard.

      Respectfully, you are doing your clients a severe disservice if you make this claim. As noted elsewhere, use of a validated library has almost nothing to do with 140-2 compliance. If you care to review the certified compliance modules, you will note that there are (a) multiple different forms of validated crypto, even within given standards, and (b) the number of required compliance mechanisms within a given module are far higher than any other unclassified government standard.

  3. At least it won't happen here by Gonoff · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am in the UK and anything based in the USA, or controlled by US companies is by default insecure.

    Sorry guys but anything your spooks think they can get away with fooling around with is not suitable for anything remotely confidential. That won't stop some crook who happens to work stealing it, as happened in NZ but we have to at least try.

    And that is before we get into your commercial 'confidentiality' practices...

    Perhaps you guys might consider offshoring your secure storage to somewhere with some decent Information Governance regulations.

    --
    I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
    1. Re:At least it won't happen here by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Informative

      I am in the UK and anything based in the USA, or controlled by US companies is by default insecure.

      Sorry guys but anything your spooks think they can get away with fooling around with is not suitable for anything remotely confidential. That won't stop some crook who happens to work stealing it, as happened in NZ but we have to at least try.

      And that is before we get into your commercial 'confidentiality' practices...

      Perhaps you guys might consider offshoring your secure storage to somewhere with some decent Information Governance regulations.

      Actually, that's why Microsoft created the private cloud version of Office365 (the "for Government" part). Right now, if any country chooses it, there's no guarantee where data is stored. It was one egg-in-face moment when Microsoft announced that Google doesn't guarantee your data is stored locally, then realized the same applied to it.

      This is an attempt to rectify that - letting and ensuring that data is stored where you want it to be stored.

      It's a big problem because yes, any data stored on a US machine is subject ot US laws, where even Canadian companies dealing with the Harper Government have to ensure that the data doesn't leave Canadian soil (yes, storing on a US server counts).

      It's one of those more obvious errors about the cloud and government that you'd think the cloud providers would've thought of...

    2. Re:At least it won't happen here by beamin · · Score: 1

      You can bet it won't be to a country whose cops are working for Rupert Murdoch.

    3. Re:At least it won't happen here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any data entering UK borders can be intercepted without any warrants and the such so any cloud services must be stored within the UK along side other security measures such as the obvious encryption.

    4. Re:At least it won't happen here by cavreader · · Score: 1

      Just storing something that requires outside internet access and data storage is insecure compared against storing data locally. If you think all US developed software is insecure you are free to build your own system, nothing is stopping you. And what the hell has the UK developed that even comes close to US software companies like Apple and MS?

    5. Re:At least it won't happen here by s.petry · · Score: 0

      What you point at in the UK is the same thing we in the US point at when dealing with "Cloud". No matter what the vendor says, when the data is not stored locally there is a huge amount of risk.

      One of the reasons I ended up leaving my last employer was that they were insistent on allowing foreigners (India/China) access US controlled data. The amount of time spent trying to find loopholes, lobby congress for law changes, and trying to convince people it was a "great idea!" was disgusting.

      I don't think many people have issues with Government stuff being self contained and "SAFE" from foreign hands. This means Egypt's data stays in Egypt, US in the US, Canada in Canada, etc... The few that do are the same dirt bags that have been running our countries in to the ground, or the tagnuts that follow them around.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    6. Re:At least it won't happen here by recoiledsnake · · Score: 2

      > It was one egg-in-face moment when Microsoft announced that Google doesn't guarantee your data is stored locally, then realized the same applied to it.

      You can stay off the cloud with Microsoft Office and run your own Sharepoint, Exchange for collaboration. Google doesn't offer such a solution. So I don't know what's the egg-in-face about it.

      --
      This space for rent.
  4. Not to mention... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not to mention that Microsoft has a whole swath of loyal purchasing manager drones in GS who will required umpteen forms, each filled out in triplicate, to even consider a non-MS product. By a simple path of least resistance, MS will win out in sheer numbers.

    1. Re:Not to mention... by CodeReign · · Score: 1

      This is the truth. Here in Canada (well Quebec), there was a court battle where a Linux based company sued and won a case against the municipal government for not accepting or considering their contract offer in accordance with the legislation of that area. The city felt it would just be easiest to go with MS and not ever consider the alternatives.

  5. Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Microsoft hopes its support of standards such as ISO 27001, SAS70 Type II, HIPAA, FERPA, and FISMA will help to give it an edge in winning those contracts.

    *laughs* Okay, seriously, you made half of those up, didn't you?

    Hey, guys, look at my cloud app stuff! I'm compliant with ISO 8675309, TRS-80, THX 1138, HAL 9000, HERPY, DERPA, NIMROD, OSHA, FERMI, and CERN! Hee hee!

    1. Re:Seriously? by AngryDeuce · · Score: 2

      But does it speak Bocce or the binary language of moisture vaporators?

    2. Re:Seriously? by davidbrit2 · · Score: 2

      You're going to have to be T-1000 certified if you want my dollars.

    3. Re:Seriously? by DaCurryman · · Score: 2

      Sadly, in my line of work, I actually work with each one of those acronyms. Although SAS70 has been replaced by SOC 1/2/3.

    4. Re:Seriously? by colinrichardday · · Score: 2

      HIPAA Health Insurance Portability and Accountabiliy Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIPAA

      FERPA Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FERPA

      FISMA Federal Information Security Management Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FISMA

      ISO 27001 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_27001

      SAS70 Statement on Accounting Standards No. 70 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS70

    5. Re:Seriously? by Anarchduke · · Score: 1

      hmm.... Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA)

      --
      who prays for Satan? Who in 18 centuries has had the humanity to pray for the 1 sinner that needed it most? ~Mark Twain
    6. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any now I'm ROTFL compliant. :)

    7. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      /me adds colinrichardday to the list of people not to invite to parties

  6. Too little alphabet soup too late? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's still competitive but this horse may have already let the stable...
    Neither are the greatest option and both have problems. Still not sure outsourcing all this stuff to a vendor is the best decision, esp. not with the data of the people of the United States!

    It's like the captcha's are psychic - unprimed.

  7. Standards? by MikeMacK · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hmmm...yes, because Microsoft is all about standards compliance...

    1. Re:Standards? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Hey it gets us less dependent on the host OS, as everything is run in the browser. And that's a good thing, isn't it? This assuming Office365 is not IE-only of course. I know that's probably a stretch though... even though IE is getting more standards compliant than ever.

  8. A quick hint for Google by jmerlin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Guaranteed victory: don't massively change the interface of your applications for business users without giving them the ability to keep the present version, especially when those changes dramatically change functionality or usability (in case you didn't get the reference, see gmail).

    It may be a simple request, but Microsoft is absolutely OWNING you in this realm, it's called consistency and stability. They've done office productivity software for a long time and they got this one right (don't like Ribbon + other bad UI choices?, keep using 2003, and here's a service pack that makes 2003 work with 2007 files!). Learn from them. The cost of re-training thousands of employees because they're used to using software version 1.0 after you FORCE them to upgrade to 1.0.0.0.1b with fancy new UI is more than enough to justify never using your products, ever again.

    Most accurate and appropriate video ever, and a precisely why Office 365 threatens Google at all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4EbCkotKPU.

    1. Re:A quick hint for Google by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      >>> keep using 2003, and here's a service pack that makes 2003 work with 2007 files!)

      And what if someone sends me a 2010 file? In that case I have no choice but to upgrade to the new Office with its shitty ribbon interface (where I can never find the function I want).

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    2. Re:A quick hint for Google by jmerlin · · Score: 1

      http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/products/microsoft-office-compatibility-pack-for-word-excel-and-powerpoint-HA010168676.aspx

      Formats supported. I'd still use 2003 over any other version. I'd also still use classic gmail over any other web-based email app, but that's a literal impossibility now, because Google doesn't understand the value of old versions.

    3. Re:A quick hint for Google by s.petry · · Score: 1

      The funny thing is, the guy claims MS is consistent and stable. Then talks about how you have to get service packs just to work between versions, and he completely omits the Ribbon fuck up that is preventing most companies from migrating to newer versions of Office.

      At a place I recently worked, it was estimated that converting 10,000 users to new office would require well over a million dollars in training and additional head count to support users, in addition to MS licensing and not counting productivity lost. Many small companies have already dumped MS for either Open/Libre or Google.

      Sure looks like a Shill to me!

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    4. Re:A quick hint for Google by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      I understand if they dumped Microsoft Office for OpenOffice or LibreOffice, but its simply insane to migrate to Google Docs under a justification that "retraining is expensive"

      At least with the former, you can continue running an old version if training costs to roll out a new version are too high. With Google Docs, you are quite literally *forced* to upgrade on Googles timetable.

      The person that looks like the shill is you.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    5. Re:A quick hint for Google by jmerlin · · Score: 1

      What part of not being required to upgrade Office did you not understand? Good luck preventing Google from updating your apps.

    6. Re:A quick hint for Google by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Retraining for Libre or Google, which looks and acts exactly like the MS product pre-Ribbon? Really? There is no retraining needed. MS has already started telling companies that they want to drop support for 2K3, but received enough push back from customers that they are holding for now.

      The money in migrating away from MS is really in conversion of data, not retraining people.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  9. Office 365 is a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Office 365 is one of the biggest examples of how Microsoft doesn't "get it" when it comes to new products. On it's own it's just a thin office-like web app that doesn't offer anything near a full-fat office experience. It can pick up that missing functionality.. If you already have a full install of office on the machine you're working on, and you're willing to uses proprietary IE-only extensions. If you're thinking right now. "What the fuck is the point of that?" Then you're not alone.

    It's just another attempt to wedge another new concept in to their old-line products of windows and office. Microsoft is culturally, and technically completely unable to move beyond windows+office and office 365 is a glaring example of just that. It's also pretty clear that Microsoft considers the only valid method of collaborative document management is sharepoint. (Which is a notoriously addictive and treacherous suite that is the definition of vendor-lockin)

    Once you remove the weird web-to-local-office-install-via-IE-extensions.. Thing. There's really no reason you should not use it instead of Google docs. Literally none.

  10. My company is implimenting O365 now by gabrieltss · · Score: 0

    What a piece of cr@pola! All I can say is I HATE Office 2010 - I hate that god awful ribbon bar. I can't find ANYTHING with it. Outlook (in the cloud) is like a Yo-Yo - It's up, it's down, it's up, it's down. And MS Lync - please! It's just a rolled over version of MS Communicator.

    --
    The Truth is a Virus!!!
    1. Re:My company is implimenting O365 now by jader3rd · · Score: 1

      I hate that god awful ribbon bar. I can't find ANYTHING with it.

      Every time when I run into someone having the same experience as you, I ask what they're doing and they're always trying to insert something (object, table, picture, link). So I then advise them that since they're trying to insert something, they should click on the insert tab. Solves their problem %100 of the time.

      If you're mentally thinking to yourself that you want to insert something, and there's an insert tab/menu item. I sugest clicking on it.

    2. Re:My company is implimenting O365 now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can't find things on the ribbon, then I suggest staying away from any sharp or point objects you could hurt yourself.

      The ribbon is about as easy as it gets.

    3. Re:My company is implimenting O365 now by jmerlin · · Score: 1

      Have you tried office 2003? It's pretty awesome.

    4. Re:My company is implimenting O365 now by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Which is fine until you realize how much is not in the tabs at all, or that you have to add tabs to perform basic actions, or how when you perform certain actions the icons in the tabs will change so "fishing" is not always simple. It's very left handed to perform many common tasks, and the constant tab switching is extremely unproductive.

      The other horrid feature is the text preview. Go ahead and select-all in a 10 page doc then try and change the font with preview in default mode. Come back in 20 minutes after your HD burns out caching all the fonts.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    5. Re:My company is implimenting O365 now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a piece of cr@pola! All I can say is I HATE Office 2010 - I hate that god awful ribbon bar. I can't find ANYTHING with it.

      Translation: I hate everything that's different and can't adapt to change, I can't find anything if it's not where it used to be.
      If we lived in a world that run by people like you there would never be any innovation and we would all be just doing everything in the same way for fear of change!

    6. Re:My company is implimenting O365 now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yo Dog. SUP? Ya know, Lync is the name of the NEXT version of Communicator. Just a name CHANge. Ya-a-mean? Check this... ifts too much fo you, you culd just keep werkin on your shitty standup routine.

    7. Re:My company is implimenting O365 now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a piece of cr@pola! All I can say is I HATE Office 2010 - I hate that god awful ribbon bar. I can't find ANYTHING with it.

      Translation: I hate everything that's different and can't adapt to change, I can't find anything if it's not where it used to be. If we lived in a world that run by people like you there would never be any innovation and we would all be just doing everything in the same way for fear of change!

      And yet, you won't leave behind yesterday's closed file formats, and use ODF?

    8. Re:My company is implimenting O365 now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, I want to change the author's name on a document... I am looking for the "Change" tab.

  11. "they got this one right" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is it that so many businesses (incl. govt. agencies) insist on using "office productivity software" for almost anything involving computers, even for tasks that would be vastly better suited to other software tools? It sometimes seems that MS Office has dumbed-down the entire world into using their computers ineffectively.

    A few examples (all seen in real life):
    1. PHB-type doesn't use email, instead dictates memos to secretary who types them as Word documents and emails them company-wide as attachments.
    2. Personnel schedule gets made as Excel spreadsheet for printing and distribution in paper form. The file itself lives only on the departmental secretary's hard drive.
    3. "Database" of information on individual patients consisting of a Word doc for each person, organized by date of initial encounter, and with the person's SSN as the file name (e.g. "C:\PATIENTS\2009\APRIL\987654321.doc"). No, I'm not making this up.
    4. Nearly any use of MS Access instead of a real database (although Access would be better than example #3).

    Don't get me wrong - it isn't always this bad by any means, but there is still a tremendous amount of brain-dead computer use rampant in the workplace. It seems like folks are determined to use their computers as nothing more than typewriters with internal storage.

    1. Re:"they got this one right" by jmerlin · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't say that's Microsoft's fault, more the fault of IT departments and users trying to overload their knowledge in a poor manner, resulting in the abuse of technologies. Instead of looking for an answer to a technical need, they just say "just throw it in an Excel spreadsheet, we can do that, right?"

    2. Re:"they got this one right" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes they should lock down the tools and eliminate flexibility to make it idiot-proof. You could just as easily to all that you suggest in any other office suite.

  12. I look forward to the localization movement by Dan667 · · Score: 1

    right after all the money is made moving everyone to mainframes ... uh, I mean the cloud, I expect we will see a new movement to move everything back to local environments. Everyone totally remembers all the problems with mainframes, right?

    1. Re:I look forward to the localization movement by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      Everyone totally remembers all the problems with mainframes, right?

      Yep, I work with one and I have to to make an PHP application interact with it.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
  13. HIPAA ... Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There really is no 'certification' for HIPAA... or no set of concrete measurable points...
    (But I do like this summary.)

    So if anybody claims 'support' for HIPAA, they are either lying, or...

    They are willing to sign a Business Associate Agreement: http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/coveredentities/businessassociates.html ...and assume some legal liability for PHI breaches.

    Almost no big business will step into this nightmare (and I've asked Google and Microsoft both)... they both offer their Services As-Is with regards to HIPAA, and leave it to the customer to determine if the application they provide is compliant.

  14. Ribbon and Metro are pathetic failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Ribbon is a UI failure just like Metro. This pathetic company never could design a UI.

    1. Re:Ribbon and Metro are pathetic failures by jmerlin · · Score: 1

      And yet you don't have to use either.

      When Google updates their apps and destroys usability in a similar manner to conform to the retardation of some moronic "new-school" UX designer who just wants to change things around to make it his own while simultaneously throwing over a decade of UX experience and user studies through the window, you have absolutely zero fucking choice on whether you want to upgrade or not. This fundamentally makes Google Apps a non-starter for businesses.

  15. The FAA is switching to Micrososft Office 365 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Although I can't find a public article stating this I know that the FAA is switching from Lotus Notes to the Micrososft Office 365 cloud solution. I don't know anyone in the FAA who likes Lotus Notes, so switching to an email system that will integrate with the other Microsoft products in use will be a significant improvement for all FAA employees.

    A contract was awarded to a company to work with Microsoft and the FAA to implement the new email system. This was just announced this month.

  16. HTML is NOT for making things look the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since your web browser may be displaying 1000 pixels wide and mine 800 pixels wide, displaying them exactly the same is impossible.

  17. It IS ODT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And if you find something it goes "seriously crap" on you can :

    1) Try a different method of achieving the goal (you don't get good results from using Frontpage workflows on Office documents)
    2) Raise this with the ODF board
    3) Find out why you want to do this, since the ODF standards board had a score of different groups working on what the format needs to do.

  18. Ninja???? by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

    I agree with you that for simple uses the google docs is probably fine. but i'm in the ninja category, (hundred+ pages, tables, figs, headers, footnotes, track changes, comments), and this can't be duplicated in google docs, let alone bouncing files back and forth!

    If you're using Word for 100+ page documents, you're likelier to be a time-waster than a Ninja. If those documents have much internal structure (10+ cross references per page), it's almost guaranteed. A real Ninja would use LaTeX.

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    1. Re:Ninja???? by noh8rz3 · · Score: 0

      Latex is for grad students. Nobody in business uses it.

  19. Thread summary by lilfields · · Score: 1

    *Anything remotely positive about Microsoft Office.* = TROLL. *Anything negative about Microsoft Office, throw in a $ for the S in Microsoft* = Oh very insightful, very insightful indeed! Grow up mods.