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Intel Builds On Top of Android, But Hedges On Open-Sourcing Improvements

Barence writes with this news as carried by PC Pro: "Intel claims it is making significant improvements to the multicore performance of Android — but isn't sure if it's willing to share them with the open-source community. Speaking to journalists in London, Intel's mobile chief Mike Bell said that Intel's engineers were making significant improvements to Android's scheduler to improve its multicore performance. 'Android doesn't make as effective use of multicore as it could,' he said. However, when pressed by PC Pro on whether those improvements would be shared with the open-source community and Intel's competitors, Bell remained non-committal. 'Where we are required to give back to open source, we do,' said Bell. 'In cases where it's not required to be open source, I'm going to think about it. I don't like doing R&D for competitors if they're not going to contribute themselves,' said Bell, before adding that 'in general, our philosophy is to give things back.'"

17 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. Altruism vs profit. by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'Where we are required to give back to open source, we do... In cases where it's not required to be open source, I'm going to think about it. I don't like doing R&D for competitors if they're not going to contribute themselves,"

    I'm glad to see that altruism is still alive and well, when it's required and only based off other people's work.

    1. Re:Altruism vs profit. by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also, anybody still wondering why the "viral" clauses of the GPL that require changes to be GPLed are important?

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    2. Re:Altruism vs profit. by Metabolife · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They're abiding by the terms of the GPL and considering giving more than is required. It's a company, not a charity.

    3. Re:Altruism vs profit. by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hence why I think that the subset of BSD proponents who argue that the GPL is unnecessary, because many companies will give back just to be "good citizens" without legal requirements, are a bit too optimistic, in most cases.

    4. Re:Altruism vs profit. by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They're abiding by the terms of the GPL and considering giving more than is required. It's a company, not a charity.

      Yet companies seem happy to take other people's charity in the form of BSD code. The GPL is more of a barter with "I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine" but I'll take that over giving gifts and getting little or none in return any day.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Altruism vs profit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes. MIT, BSD and Apache and many more licenses do perfectly well without them.

      Haven't you been listening to Stalman? Those licenses only work now because the corporate interests want them to appear as viable alternatives. Once GPL is pushed out of the market, the fatcats will stop providing any support for open source and have any open source advocates sent to Guantanamo!

    6. Re:Altruism vs profit. by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think anyone questioned why they were there. The issue is, there are people who will refuse to build off of or contribute to GPL projects because they're somehow afraid of being compelled to contribute something they might not want to. So the question then becomes, are the contributions that are compelled by the license going to be greater than the contributions lost due to fear of being compelled?

      I'm not taking a side here. I don't have any idea what the answer is, but I suspect it's different for different projects and different communities.

    7. Re:Altruism vs profit. by neokushan · · Score: 4, Informative

      Android is not GPL, it's Apache:

      http://source.android.com/source/licenses.html

      The linux Kernel is a different matter but this is an Android code change, not a Linux one. Intel doesn't have to release anything, ever.

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      +1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
    8. Re:Altruism vs profit. by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Android is a perfect example of this - While the userspace Android stack is open source, the Apache license allows vendors to close the source and not release any modifications.

      Pretty much all of them do, except for those working on Google's reference devices (the Nexus series).

      Now I can understand closing up your "special sauce" modifications like custom UI skins and additional applications - but these companies close down their HALs and frequently change their HAL interfaces so they differ from the Android standards, making it difficult for those who want to run pure AOSP on a non-Nexus device to do so. There is no benefit to doing this - it only pisses people off if they are unhappy with your skin but are unable to change it.

      Samsung is especially bad in this regard - they will find every excuse they can to avoid providing source. For example:
      The wifi drivers for the ath6k chip in the Tab 7.0 Plus and Tab 7.7 are apparently dual-licensed (BSD/GPL) by Atheros. Samsung chose BSD - so as a result owners of those devices are stuck with shitty wifi that doesn't work well and can't be fixed.
      AT&T released an OTA update to Gingerbread for the Samsung Infuse. Two weeks later, Samsung still had not provided kernel source in compliance with the GPL. At this point, AT&T stopped providing the update due to issues with the touchscreen drivers. A week later, Samsung claimed they did not need to provide source for that release because the update was no longer being provided. This is in conflict with the GPL - Samsung DID provide binaries officially to many users, and they are legally obligated to provide source to those users.

      In a manner HIGHLY atypical for them given their corporate history, Sony seems to be the only company in the Android ecosystem that isn't paying lip service to open source. They provided ICS alphas and betas (INCLUDING kernel source) to the community, have provided technical documentation and assistance to the Cyanogenmod team that has been greatly instrumental in bringup of Cyanogenmod on Sony devices, have open-sourced their sensor HAL even when they didn't have to, and actually have a developer relations guy (Karl-Johan Dahlström) that does his job. (As opposed to Samsung's developer relations guy, who just cross-posts to XDA teasing of "awesome things to come" and completely failing to deliver, and tweeting source code release announcements for source code releases that have already been out for a week or more.) It's enough that there's a good chance my next phone will be a Sony despite a historical hatred of them for their past bad behavior in other business areas.

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      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    9. Re:Altruism vs profit. by cheesybagel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Didn't you read the comment? The Intel spokesman simply said it is their policy not to release improvements if other people using the project don't usually do it. i.e. if Android was under a copyleft license Intel would release the changes. Intel contributes to a number of GPLed projects including the Linux kernel and they release the source for that.

    10. Re:Altruism vs profit. by cheesybagel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's what happened with Wine. They switched to GPL as a response.

    11. Re:Altruism vs profit. by Immerman · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, if you're working on a huge multi-million dollar project you probably don't have much incentive to use GPL components, do you? The price is too high. Either do the work yourself or go buy a license to something proprietary. Or as you point out, use something with a more permissive open source license.

      Different licenses have different goals. If you're looking to make money you use a proprietary license and sell usage rights. If you're looking to create a standard of some sort (platform, file format, whatever) then BSD, MIT, or full-on public domain is the way to go, because your goal is to get the software in as widespread use as possible and any restrictions will hinder that. If you're looking to build a free library of useful code, something like the LGPL may be better because your goal is to maximize the development speed of the library, letting folks improve on it but keep those improvements to themselves is counterproductive.

      The GPL was intentionally designed to create an expanding ecosystem of Free software. Not a toolset, not a standard, an ecosystem. To create software at all comparable to the well-funded proprietary alternatives you need some sort of edge. The GPL edge is take anything you want, from any project you want (from within the ecosystem of course), use it however you want, but your project MUST remain a part of the ecosystem. It's done a great job too - the ecosystem is thriving and there is a truly staggering amount of code out there that plenty of projects would love to use but can't because they aren't willing to join the ecosystem. That's fine.

      The GPL is an openly idealistic license, and that's not always be the most effective stance to take for all purposes, but if you use any open-source software or libraries at all it's rather hypocritical to call out the idealists for being extremists. Everything exists on a spectrum, if the GPL vanished tomorrow the the LGPL would be the "extremists", keep knocking out the "extremists" and pretty soon the public-domain projects that simply make a non-binding request for acknowledgment will be the "extremists". Having idealists as the extremists, much less idealists that have proven that it is still possible to turn a decent profit, gives a good reference point for everyone else. Personally I suspect we'd have a much poorer ecosystem of non-GPL open source software if the GPL folks weren't around to prove that even a hard-line stance is viable.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    12. Re:Altruism vs profit. by citizenr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If they are talking about a scheduler change, that is very likely a kernel modification.

      Android has its own scheduler, in java and everything. This is why you get FPS drops on dual core 1.5GHz phones while on home screen just sliding tabs around, or 100ms Audio LAG, or >100ms input lag..

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    13. Re:Altruism vs profit. by keeboo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's what we (professional company paid develops) do.

      Bitch incessantly and post as Anonymous Cowards on Slashdot?

      I think that by "paid developers" he actually meant "paid developers of proprietary code".

      There are people getting paid (directly or indirectly) to develop open source code.
      Those are the people who not only earn their living from software development, but also have cojones to have their code exposed to be whole world.
      Think about that: any mediocrity of your is made public and preserved for... pretty much forever. One has to respect such professional attitude.

      Many of the paid developers are simply listed as "independent individuals" (instead of from company XYZ) while not really being that, for reasons such as:

      a) That was an auxiliary project/task for the company/government and it does not care/want to be credited,
      b) Auxiliary project/task (as above) for the government, done by a public servant, for a project the government does not want to keep the burden of maintaining its own fork.
      Depending on your country (and its government and the way people deal with such situations - the latter being a cultural thing) it may be far simpler for licensing/copyright reasons to just pretend the code was done by the public servant in his own time, instead of dealing with a nightmarish bureaucracy.
      c) The developer is independent and the code is generic and may/will serve more than one paying client,
      d) The developer is a researcher and the paying part is interested on credits when it comes to papers, books and patents. -- Though, yeah, in this case
      e) ... etc

      'a' and 'b' happened to me oh-so-many times (though I really wish we had less complicated laws here, so for 'b' to be unnecessary).
      I know people in the 'd' case, though not to me: I never generated decent code from research and got funding, both at the same time.
      I know people fitting the 'c' case (most have their own small company). Not my case either.

  2. Believe it when I see it by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole article reeks of PR and marketspeak. "Of course we can do better than everyone else", "no way is ARM going to beat us, our single core is better than their dual-core!"

    My response to Intel is to put up or shut up. Or be ignored, since I know they won't do the latter (they didn't get to be a 100+ billion dollar company by not marketing the hell out of their product).

    --
    "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
  3. He's talking about software that isn't shipping by WilliamBaughman · · Score: 3, Informative

    Mike Bell is talking about something he says Intel is"working on, not something that Intel is shipping or even something that he claims is totally functional and free of bugs. There's a big distinction between "we're greedy bastards" and "we're not releasing source to beta versions of undistributed software." I think the summary could reflect better.

  4. NDA Encumberment? Bigger picture issues? by aaronb1138 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder if some of the issue is actually Intel vetting approval from their legal department. A lot of people like to point at Intel engineering and point and say look at all the cool stuff they holding back and only offering as binary blobs. The reality is that their middle management business to business side keeps letting 3rd parties write horrific terms into contracts.

    I know with Atom CPU development that the GPU is extremely encumbered by NDAs with PowerVR which prevent Intel from releasing any decent drivers for Linux or Android. There was even one support technician who commented on the fact that he compiled working Android x86 graphics drivers for GMA 500/600 based hardware only to find out from his boss that they could not be released because parts of the code tree where contaminated by bits of PowerVR code. The technician in question goes by "pinebud77" on YouTube and just "PineBud" on pocketables.com. At the time, about 2 years ago, Intel then and up through now, has had to completely rewrite their drivers for GMA graphics on both Windows and *nix platforms due to bad legal agreements. They've had to go so far as to reverse engineer drivers they had already paid for. It has even been questioned how much this killed Meego development in early stages.

    I suspect there might be similar bad deals with partners hurting Intel here. The gist I have gotten is that they don't want to withhold drivers or technology, but even when they back up a Brinks truck of cash, they get screwed on contract terms by 3rd parties. The management folks don't have any clue why they might need rights to code they buy from Imagination Technology, Tungsten, or others.

    I know the article is related to multi-threading CPU processes, which Intel definitely has a lot of their own engineering invested, but I wouldn't take the "I don't like doing R&D for competitors if they're not going to contribute themselves," as the sole reason. Further, seriously consider the current x86 vs ARM environment. If you look at the article comments and forums at many other tech news sites (namely arstechnica.com and theverge.com) there are a LOT of relatively ignorant people who seem to think various ARM architectures are vastly superior in computing power to x86 and trying to turn it into some kind of architecture holy war on the scale of AMD vs. Intel vs. Cyrix debates of years past. People who actually think that ARM has equivalent processing power to low end i5 CPUs, when top end quad core ARM CPU's can't even match the FPU performance of 4 year old ATOM single cores. It's even harder to explain to those crowds the massive issues ARM has with scaling and multitasking due to huge bandwidth to IO busses bottlenecks. All of these factors give Intel very good reasons not to share their undertakings with competitors who have brainwashed enough masses to no longer need to compete on merits. I'll give various ARM implementations the performance to battery use crown all day, it's a great CPU for something like a smartphone. When I hear derpity derp about ARM for high utilization clusters though, I vomit a bit in my throat.