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China Plans Manned Space Mission This Month
jamstar7 writes "From an Associated Press report: 'China will launch three astronauts this month to dock with an orbiting experimental module, and the crew might include its first female space traveler, a government news agency said Saturday. A rocket carrying the Shenzhou 9 spacecraft was moved to a launch pad in China's desert northwest on Saturday for the mid-June flight, the Xinhua News Agency said, citing an space program spokesman. The three-member crew will dock with and live in the Tiangong 1 orbital module launched last year, Xinhua said. The government has not said how long the mission will last.' China, who is not an ISS partner, plans to see if its Shenzhou 9/Long March 2F system can get the job done like the Dragon/Falcon9 system can. They plan on two missions this year to dock with their Tiangong 1 module, which was launched in September 2011. Their eventual plans include building a complete space station by 2020, though one of only about 60 tons, compared to the ISS's 450-ish tons."
USA legal teams develop relationship with patent troll Lodsys. Strategy? Wait for China to succeed in space and then sue their butts off for patent infringement.
Does anyone have a clue why they want to do it by them selves?
I applaud the DIY mentality there, but it doesn't seem to be the easiest / cheapest thing to do. And on this level "because they can" is just seems ludicrous.
Anyone?
rm -rf --no-preserve-root /
If China want to be jingoistic and stupid and waste their money on 40 year old technology, then let them.
They'll still steamroll the world through sheer economic might and weight of numbers, but this will delay the inevitable for a few days.
Hard to believe human beings would think it logical to duplicate an engineering feat such as a space station due to nationalism. You'd think the average educational norm could be slightly higher than the nationalistic primal urges, but no.
Mankind is not a rational animal.
He is a rationalizing animal.
Besides, there is a whole lot of useful engineering in being able to launch something into space. Materials science, engines, controls - hey, there even could be a military use.
If all else fails, you can make it cheaper and sell it to the US.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Just ask the Europeans.
Thanks, buddy. Waste of a click. Thankfully, _they_ haven't decided to tax those yet.
NASA pulls out of astrophysics missions
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Anybody care to provide a link that isn't paywall'd?
Meh.
Might have a women crew member.
Won't disclose how long the mission will last.
Just another long line of China BS disclosing just the bare minimum to garner some "face" for their "great" space accomplishments.
Of course nothing that goes wrong will be reported. They're barely a step above NK for their PR releases, but wait, they prop up the US economy so lets all give them a rousing pat on the back.
So golf clap for China, they've stolen enough IP to duplicate what US/USSR did back in the 80's.
this female astronaut, will she be hot
google search for candidates seem to indicate, hell yeah!
You do realise this exact same shit was said about Japan years ago. All they do is copy... not innovate...
China is copying to catch up. Once they catch up they will go shooting past - and all the MBAs, financial instruments and lawyers that the US has wanked away its educational estasblishments and brainpower on producing won't be worth a piss in a wind storm.
As was mentioned elsewhere too, China asked to participate in the ISS in 2007, but the US was/is against it. Nationalistic primal urges go both ways.
What I find most interesting is the difference between the Chinese Space Program and organizations such as the ESA, NASA, and POCKOCMOC (Russia) is the amount of secrecy. Whenever any of the other space agencies makes a manned launch, you normally hear about it years before the actual mission flies, and the crew assignment is normally announced shortly after the mission is. With China, you hear about it almost days before launch day!
Sig: I stole this sig.
The well-known journalistic suffix of "-ish" is used when quoting figures from Wikipedia, where you cannot be sure of veracity, or using woefully vague units like "ton". Wikipedia gives the mass as "approximately 450,000 kg (990,000 lb)", which is 450 tonnes (a non-SI unit acceptable in SI) or 495 short tons, the unit most commonly called "ton" in the US, 446 long tons, the unit used for the displacement of ships and in the UK. NASA, on the other hand, give the much less massive figure of "861,804 lb (390,908 kilograms)" or 391 tonnes, 431 short tons, or 395 long tons. Both sources approximate conversion from kg to lb, so there are four different figures to choose from even if you ignore the vagueness of "ton." Pick your poison.
Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
It also made sense to keep China out. There were valid concerns that they wouldn't contribute, but just suck knowledge and technology for their own uses. Mind you, that describes most of the participants to some degree.
Hard to believe human beings would think it logical to duplicate an engineering feat such as a space station due to nationalism.
I think the problem here is that you use "belief" instead of "reason". The space station was pretty cheap and the nationalism benefits fairly concrete, a morale boost for more than a billion people. The logic isn't perfect, but it's a good deal more solid than you believe.
China will "suck knowledge and technology" from the ISS? Unless the ISS has a secret military purpose (does it?), I don't see it as much of an issue. There might be some secrets to "steal", er, copy in the robotics department, but the stuff that stays up in space appears to be more ancient than the W3. Since the Shuttle retired, there isn't any more launch technology for an undercover taikonaut to observe at docking range. That leaves only the life support systems and radiation hardening, which the Chinese can probably acquire from the Russians, who until recently held the most important endurance records in space.
It's not really that it's the Chinese Space Program being secretive, that's just China.
Pretty sure the GP was talking about Japanese innovation and not their economic model.
It's on America's tortured brow, That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow
Competition is good for some things, but not all. For instance, there are ideas which can't be done by just one group/country due to massive amounts of $$$ needed, amongst other things. An expedition to Mars would need a collaborative effort, going by what it'd take to get there.
I think it's a little sad to think that a figurative dick-waving is what you have to do in order to get anything done, the idea that "haha, we're better than you!" urging us on instead of, "OMG, if we'd all stfu and combine resources, we could be on Mars by such-n-such a year!"
Remember, if Keith, Princess Allura, Pidge, Hunk, Sven and Lance had this attitude, they never would have been able to fight off the Robeasts. Amirite?
You want to know how to help your kids? LEAVE THEM THE F*&K ALONE. --George Carlin
Japan is an economic joke!
Japan's GDP per capita is only $4K less a year than the USA and higher than Germany's. Some joke!
And here I thought the ISS was for the good of humanity and all that warm and fuzzy stuff. However, don't American fears of Chinese industrial espionage also apply to the Russians?
However, don't American fears of Chinese industrial espionage also apply to the Russians?
Why would they? The Russians stay bought.
china will always be a 2nd choice, in terms of goods quality. well, for as long as it took japan to get their act together (20 years or so, roughly).
china simply does not understand customer satisfaction, long-term company reputation, local support, customer service or any of the other things that western businesses assume and take for granted.
unless you stand over them, the quality of goods from china is less than putrid. as someone who services the broken shit from there that is sold to us, I've about had it with buying their junk. its dangerous in so many ways its not funny. electrically, chemically, you name it.
japan was never this bad, at least as far back as I can remember (I'm in my 50's). china stuff is mostly to be avoided and I see zero slope in the improvement curve. zero. no desire. just keep selling shit and screwing the customer. customer won't be back but another sucker will! they figured this out and they're OK with it! fully ok with this ethic.
its bullshit. as if they capacitor syndrome was not bad enough to fuck over the world (world supply of bad electrolytics still is an issue, even 10 years after it happened).
no, they will not surpass the west for a LONG time. not with the quality attitude they have. and they total lack of business ethic.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Japan is an economic joke! Their economy has been in recession or barely growing since the early nineties. They've basically stagnated for the last 20 years. Their government is so in debt (230% of GDP) that they make Greece (165%) and Spain (69%) look fiscally responsible! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt)
It's worth keeping in mind that if Japan had the same quality of fairly ruthless leadership that it had in the 50s through to the 70s, it probably would have rebounded quickly. The severe recession of 1990-1991 was a good time to weed out the failures and allot the weaker performing keiretsu among the remainder (likely in the process encouraging new players to enter the ranks). That didn't happen and is in large part why things haven't improved very much for a long time.
China Launches First Willing Manned Mission Into Space - YouTube
ALL YOUR SPACE STATIONS AND MOON BASES ARE BELONG TO US!
Which they will proclaim were always in fact a part of Communist China, eh JC?
Just like Tibet... And everyone in China is SO FREE or else... ;-)
GreekGeek
That's taking a little naive look at it. Japan's debt is domestic dept, and their can print their own money. So their debt problem is not the same as Greece (who is on hock to foreigners, and can't print their own money), Spain, Italy and Ireland.
Ironicly, Ireland is one of the countries Americans create shell corporations in to hide their assets. Go figure. Raise the tax rate in Ireland and the that solves one of America's problems automatically.
You do realise this exact same shit was said about Japan years ago. All they do is copy... not innovate...
China is copying to catch up. Once they catch up they will go shooting past - and all the MBAs, financial instruments and lawyers that the US has wanked away its educational estasblishments and brainpower on producing won't be worth a piss in a wind storm.
I can't find a link to any web based version but there was an interesting story on NPR about two months ago
I support NPR, with my money and my time in volunteering
But I do understand that NPR is not perfect
NPR is not that much different from many other Western media - that their report on other part of the world routinely tinted with the Western bias
I am not from China but I do have businesses in China - and in my many trips to China, I have to say that the average Chinese are way more innovative than the average American
While it is true that if we compare the top American researchers the Chinese have nothing to compare to - their top researchers are still light years away from the West - but that does not mean that the Chinese people are a dumb bunch
The lack of innovativeness in China is caused by the damage done by the Cultural Revolution in the 60's and 70's. Two generations of top Chinese scientists were wiped out (many were forced to suicide)
China is still suffering the consequences
But if you talk about Chinese - as a people - they are not dumb
Go to Hong Kong or Taiwan or even take a look at the Chinese Americans - they are way more innovative than the average Americans
It's time you guys stop deceiving yourself. The Chinese are playing catching up, and once they are at par with America, you guys will eat dust, literally
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Obligatory Onion:
" China Launches First Willing Manned Mission Into Space "
http://www.theonion.com/video/china-launches-first-willing-manned-mission-into-s,14273/
Anybody care to provide a link that isn't paywall'd?
http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2011/04/19/nasa-pulls-out-of-astrophysics-missions
Google is always very helpful
Don't you think so?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
They're just getting even for gun powder, and paper
.... and compass
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
We need to bring China in on the ISS.
China was / is specifically banned from joining the ISS program
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Less because I think china will do anything meaningful in space exploration at least for a long time to come. But Americans in particular take space more seriously when they think they're competing for it. So this could mean a serious reprioritization of resources in favor of space exploration by the US.
Again, I think it's great the chinese are interested and I wish them the best. I think it's great that more countries are getting involved. I just think in the short term the best news here is that it's likely to get more established countries more involved as well.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
What did the metric alien say?
Take me to your litre!
It's all a ruse!
Just like the pc game Homefront :) except with China instead of North Korea...
The "space station" will detonate a massive EMP over the U.S. disabling much of the nation's grid preparing the way for invasion.
Most all our national debt is owed to China and they are coming to collect.
At least let me make sure my tinfoil hat is on straight.
unless you stand over them, the quality of goods from china is less than putrid.
Oh really?
I think it's the other way around. China will manufacture products as cheap and as nasty as their clients request. If a Mattel subcontractor specifies lead pain for children's toys, Chinese manufacturers will supply the product. It's not their fault if American marketers have no qualms about poisoning children.
They previously put a small habitat into orbit. Now they're sending some people up. The US had Skylab, the USSR had Mir, and China is now doing something in roughly the same scale. Why not?
They're in a cold war with every major power on Earth. It's an economic and technological war rather than a shooting war, but the principal is the same - you beat on your chest and shout "We are mighty!" to inspire your own people and make your opponents nervous. China has been an also-ran in the world for a long time, significant only because of the sheer size of their population. Their development and economic growth has been phenomenal over the last several decades, but they started out so far behind that it's been hard to take them seriously on that front. That's starting to change. They still have a long way to go improving their per-capita numbers, but if you look at the just the top 25% of the population you get a very different picture, and they still outnumber the entire US. They're starting to become a major player, and they want to make sure everyone knows it.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Sigh, here we go again.
You should read the Myth of Japan's Failure --- a great piece on perception vs. reality of Japan's economy. Hopefully, this will clear your misconceptions and not have you spewing forth silly rubbish.
Slashdot, where geeks who do not know or understand economics talk about it, and sound like idiots doing so.
Japan had twice the per capita GDP over America... twenty years ago. While substantial, they are dealing with some very tough problems.
One of the largest problems Japan has been facing is that they have a huge population of senior citizens compared to the number of children that have been born. It has forced Japan to deal with very different issues than many Islamic countries are facing which have a large youth population. These issues are also going to be facing America relatively soon, particularly when the Baby Boomers finally start to hit retirement age (they already are right now and are arguably a part of the housing price collapse).
So does this mean that the Chinese will be the ones who will invent the next Tang, Teflon and Velcro?
. . . and even more exciting urban legends?
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Decent enough article although a lot of hyperbole and ignores a lot of inconvenient facts.
Firstly to say that the lost decade (or twenty) years has been a creation of western psychology is silly. There's a lot of pessimism in Japan among Japanese about the last twenty years and with generally good reason. The system of lifetime employment has collapsed and a new social underclass of non-permanent workers has been created. The number of families relying on government assistance has massively increased and the 4.4 or 5% unemployment rate is only being maintained because the government is literally paying companies to keep people employed. Government debt has ballooned to 200% of GDP and shows no signs of slowing down. Meanwhile the healthcare and pension systems are lumbering towards collapse requiring evermore government (debt) funds to make up the massive funding shortfalls.
To say that there was any policy choice to decrease the birthrate is silly. Policy makers have spent the last decade or more worrying about and doing nothing about the low birthrate. I think decreasing the population is eventually a good thing but to say that there has been a deliberate choice and that Western commentators have missed that is silly.
Trade pressure has eased on Japan in part because the markets have opened up somewhat and in part because production has shifted overseas. The Japanese current account surplus these days is much more based on earnings from overseas assets. However the pressure is not completely gone. Just go have a look at the TPP talks..
nevertheless, the point i see here is the chinese go for it while the rest keeps slacking he who controls the skies etcetera, the american military still seems to think that's about stealth bombers then ?
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
Slashdot, where geeks who do not know or understand economics talk about it, and sound like idiots doing so.
And this differs from any financial forum, financial institution, TV news show how?
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AFAIK, one of the drivers behind the man on the moon mission was because Russia was busy with the same thing, so this may actually restart the NASA funding.
However, I'm concerned because every nation "up there" has been amusing itself with saturating the place with satellites for various purposes (not in the least military), and now another club is joining - one that now holds all the cash.
It's getting uncomfortably crowded up there, and if something gets out of orbit a hard hat won't exactly be enough. That "out of orbit" could be accidental or deliberate.
*Not* good.
Insert
Japan had twice the per capita GDP over America.. [citation needed]
What the hell? The ton is 1,000 kg.
face it, nobody cares about the legacy units.
for global 30 somethings a ton is a thousand kilos.
metric tons would have been sufficient. kilo kg just doesn't have a good vibe to it.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Just read it. Fair points, I wouldn't contend that the people of Japan are all running around in poverty. It's not an across the board awful country or something.
That said, your article basically says, yeah, GDP isn't great but look at all these other good things! My point is that their GDP isn't growing. They are in ludicrous amounts of debt. Their companies are losing their competitiveness (have you seen how much money Sony has been losing lately?). They are facing serious long term demographic challenges related to their population aging. Hell, they can barely keep the lights on! (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/japan-power-minister-idUST9E8EM02G20120425). Heck, we can trade articles, I think this makes my point quite clearly: http://www.economist.com/node/21556596.
It has been bad for them lately, and things are only going to get worse if (when) interest rates on their debt rise.
As for the ad hominem, I double majored in Mathematics and Economics at a top 10 school in the US; I graduated with high honors. I wrote my thesis on sovereign bonds. I do, in fact, know what I'm talking about. Do you?
So basically, it's exactly like the U.S. educational system.
There's a legitimate worry that China wouldn't be a useful participant and would take secrets from the other parties doing work on the station.
So to prevent that, they've taken action to ensure that China, feeling scorned, will go off on its own path. They will develop/steal the same technology anyway through other means, all on their own and independently....then in the end there will be the same outcome, except now the Chinese have good reason to dislike and mistrust us.
Nice job, assholes.
Yet there is far less poverty in Japan (and Germany). The US might have a high per capita GDP but that's just an average, the spread is very unevenly balanced. It also doesn't account for the fact that both Japan and Germany have universal healthcare.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
One of the goals for building the ISS was also to transfer knowledge (at a price) from Russia to the USA over how they were able to build MIR and to get access to the engineering history of MIR and the Almaz and Salyut programs. While in theory Skylab could have had two crews docked at the same time, such a task was never actually performed, nor were any "resupply" flights like Russia did with the Salyut program and subsequently done with MIR and the ISS. That whole process started with the Shuttle-MIR missions where engineering technology and knowledge was shared between the two countries on an extensive basis where Russia certainly had a whole lot to bring to the table.
What China brings certainly is doubtful. Japan at least had a pile of money, and while they did build the Kibo, Japan used American and European launchers for putting up most of the pieces.
So to prevent that, they've taken action to ensure that China, feeling scorned, will go off on its own path. They will develop/steal the same technology anyway through other means, all on their own and independently....then in the end there will be the same outcome, except now the Chinese have good reason to dislike and mistrust us.
Needless to say, I consider that a better outcome. And no, the Chinese don't have "good reason" to mistrust us. They might have good reason to dislike us, but I think they're pragmatic enough to realize that there's a limit to stupidity even in the developed world.
Nice job, assholes.
What the hell? The ton is 1,000 kg.
No it isn't, a tonne is 1000kg.
I agree with the others. An interesting article. But I lost my warm fuzzies after several paragraphs and no where finding something about how that in Japan you really care about your neighbors. Bummers. I mean, here in the US the main focus amongst your peers is how to take what your peers have. And all the tricks there between. Ah, it would be refreshing to have a society that actually cared for each other despite their differences. Don't troll me back damnit, you know its true you guys. There is generosity but its Freudian. Except for me I'm perfect.
1000 kg is 1,000,000 grams. AKA a 'megagram'.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
A 'tonne' is the French spelling of 'ton', that some people use to make it non-ambiguous that they mean the metric ton.
Your point being?
Don't you love these Soviet Style missions?
If only they built the Falcon 12 years ago!
On top of my head, covered in fur. Thanks for asking.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.