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EFF Announces New Patent Reform Project

olsmeister writes "On Tuesday, the Electronic Frontier Foundation announced its 'Defend Innovation' project, which includes seven proposals for software patent reform. These proposals include things like shorter coverage for software patents, and a requirement to demonstrate running code for each claim in the patent."

22 of 93 comments (clear)

  1. In other news by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 4, Funny

    In other news, the EFF has adopted Don Quixote as their Official Mascot.

    1. Re:In other news by MyLongNickName · · Score: 2

      Laugh if you want, but you could have said the same thing about the ACLU a few decades ago. And whether you like the ACLU or not, they have had a tremendous impact on our legal and social landscape.

      I don't know if the EFF will have a similar impact, but they will certainlyhave no less than snarky slashdot commenters.

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    2. Re:In other news by HarrySquatter · · Score: 2

      You mean more like nearly 100 years ago, right? The ACLU has been active since the 20s.

    3. Re:In other news by MyLongNickName · · Score: 2

      I knew they were around since the 30's. You have only discovered that I am old and think of the 30's as just a few decades ago :)

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
  2. How about: by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No more granting patents for the bloody obvious! Things like Amazon's one-click, or Apple's patent for a slide-to-unlock bar. This includes things which may sound arcane and innovative but are actually obvious to anyone working in the field, which in turn means the examiners will need to be better trained.

    Or how about a 'fail fee' to discourage companies from fileing thousands of junk patents in the hope that just a few will be approved by luck and can be used to fill their patent chest?

    A ban on patents that provide no obvious benefit to mankind, but rather are intended specifically to prevent interoperability with a specific format? Things like filesystems or file formats. I'm thinking specifically of MSs patent on long file names in fat32.

    1. Re:How about: by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 2

      You know what would fix about 30% of all the issues surrounding the patent office? Have patent examiners be paid regardless of how many patents they approve. You know what would fix about another 30% of the issues? Your fail fee.

      Yes, obnoxiously long patent terms in a world where things are outdated in 5 years are no good. So are patents on processes and mathematical constructs. But the terrible approach of judging an examiner's efficiency by how many patents they approve is guaranteed to result in obvious patents being granted, and the total lack of downside to submitting a patent means that every single idea under the sun gets submitted.

      Screw software patents, business process patents and the other topics. Fix the dumb-ass metrics and market incentives in place at the patent office first.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    2. Re:How about: by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2

      I'd do it like this:

      Firstly, rework patent examiner commissions. Examiners get paid a reasonable monthly wage and they get a small bonus if they successfully reject a patent on grounds of prior art or unpatentability. However, every rejection is checked by another examiner who gets the bonus if they can show that the first examiner didn't do their job properly. There are no other repercussions for the first examiner if that's the case; they just don't get the bonus.
      Result: Patent examiners are now interested in building a strong case against a patent but the bonuses aren't so large that they become overly reject-happy or want to go through patents as quickly as possible. Of course we'd also need to hire more examiners to make up for their more reasonable pace.

      Secondly, introduce a variable filing fee. It's a flat base amount plus a variable amount dependent on how many failed and pending applications the submitter has made in the last twelve months. (Yes, you can game this by using shell companies but at least then you get some organisational overhead.) Let's use random number and say it's 1.000 USD plus 500 USD per failed patent. A first-time submitter pays 1k$. If they come up with another patent a year later they pay 1k$ again. A corporation which tries to achieve patents by bruteforcing the patent office ends up with fees in the five-digit range per application.

      Thirdly, reduce the duration of patents on nonphysical things. If you can convince the patent office that the thirty-nine hour week or the concept of middle-clicking a menu bar are novel then you get your patent... for, let's say, three years with the usual renewal fees if you want to extend to six. "$ACTION on a computer" counts as nonphysical unless you can prove that your patent involves a substantial change to the physical design of the computer.

      I think that would weed out a lot of the cruft. I also think that you'd need to spend billions in lobbyist wages and bribes in order to acheive even one of those points.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  3. Frigging ridiculous by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In a day when even the courts are questioning the validity of the very concept of software patents, EFF should be taking up this issue. Instead, they are lobbying for "shorter durations"???

    Boo, hiss. EFF, I expect a lot more from you guys.

    1. Re:Frigging ridiculous by DigitalSorceress · · Score: 2

      You make a good point.. that they should be pressing the advantage here, but does it really hurt to also take this approach as a Plan B?

      --

      The Digital Sorceress
    2. Re:Frigging ridiculous by KermodeBear · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you can't get what you want, you have to settle for a compromise... With the hope that you can ultimately make it to your final destination at some later point down the road.

      The legal system - hell, ANY big system - doesn't like sudden, drastic change. But lots of little baby steps? People won't even notice if you do it correctly.

      --
      Love sees no species.
    3. Re:Frigging ridiculous by Qwertie · · Score: 2

      First of all, reducing terms from 20 to 5 years would reduce the effect of software patents by 75% all by itself.

      And they *are* lobbying for more than shorter durations. The EFF's 7 suggested points, taken together, would remove most of the remaining effect of software patents. Like most of us software developers, I expect the EFF would support complete elimination of software patents, but given how patent-friendly Washington is, perhaps they thought it would be a more effective strategy to lobby for weaker patents instead.

    4. Re:Frigging ridiculous by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      "First of all, reducing terms from 20 to 5 years would reduce the effect of software patents by 75% all by itself."

      I don't look at it quite that way. The harmful effect isn't minimized, it's just shortened. Not -- quite -- the same thing.

      "... perhaps they thought it would be a more effective strategy to lobby for weaker patents instead."

      But my point was: with the courts already questioning their validity, it seems to me EFF should strike as hard as they can, "while the iron is hot", as they say. Rather than back off and push for a "compromise" that nobody wants.

  4. Re:That's cute. I wonder whether anyone will liste by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 3, Funny

    That's cute. I wonder whether anyone will listen.

    My cynical side says, "Not unless they have as much money pumped into lobbyists as *IAA does". My realistic side says, "Not unless they have as much money pumped into lobbyists as *IAA does"." Oh... damn.

  5. Croudsourced stuffing of obvious idea database by WaffleMonster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think what might be interesting is to develop a database of prior art/ideas. With thousands of people submitting everything they can think of every conceviable obvious aggregation of technologies any patent application would be required to be checked against the database and rejected if someone else already dreamed of it before the application was filed.

    The database would be run by the patent office or it would incorporate cryptographic and distributed features allowing timestamps and content to stand up to any challenge.

    Companies not wishing to pay the patent tax might seek to use it in a bid to prevent others from filing first and locking up the same blatently obvious ideas for the next 20 years.

  6. Re:Gobs of Money by cornjones · · Score: 2

    help candidates who will do the right thing without receiving kickbacks

    no problem, just_common_sense, just find some mythical super politician and we will be all set... I think they tend the unicorn fields, lets look there...

  7. Re:How about by Jeng · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How about making that a crime punishable with prison time for the person who submitted the patent application IF it can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person who submitted the patent application knew about the prior art and actively suppressed it?

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  8. For all the negative responses... by noobermin · · Score: 2

    Do you all live in the real world or has the dark of the basement really cut you off from outside too long? If they outright try to lobby for radical change to the system it won't get passed and the naysayers will be emboldened and any hopes of change will be harder to accomplish. At least the last point, research whether they help in the first place, sets groundwork for proving whether they help.

    FFS, lasting revolution doesn't happen overnight, sometimes the wiser thing is to change things slowly and smartly.

  9. Not very effective EFF by reebmmm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've said before, in other threads, that I'm a patent attorney. I have my undergrad degree in CS. I have an ill view of many patents that are litigated. That's not to say there's no innovation happening in the software world, or that there's nothing worthy of protection.

    Nevertheless, I generally think that the EFF's proposals here are misguided. Taking them one by one:

    1. A patent covering software should be shorter: no more than five years from the application date.

    Part of the problem in the first place is that it some times takes longer than 5 years to even get a patent. Most of the term of a patent (under this scheme) would be consumed with prosecution. It doesn't account for the Patent Office.

    If the patent is invalid or there's no infringement, the trolls should have to pay the legal fees.

    On board with this one, but it doesn't go far enough.

    We really should be talking about fee shifting more generally in the case of a patent owner that fails to do their own diligence, but rather is seeking to extract nuisance money or impede lawful commercial activity.

    Patent applicants should be required to provide an example of running software code for each claim in the patent.

    This doesn't address the real problem. The real problem is when old claims are read to cover future technologies that they didn't not have possession of at the time the application is filed.

    In a non-software example, it would be like a patent claim that covers something no larger than "a micrometer" before "nanometer" manipulation was available.

    Infringers should avoid liability if they independently arrive at the patented invention.

    There is already a prior user defense baked into the most recent patent reform bill.

    Patents and licenses should be public right away. Patent owners should be required to keep their public records up-to-date.

    Patents are. Most patent applications are public within 18 months of filing too.

    I'm not sure why a license must be public. That's just a contract between two people.

    I'm also not sure what public records they're referring to. It could be that patent assignment records aren't "up to date." (http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/?db=pat). I could get on board with requiring those be up to date.

    The law should limit damages so that a patent owner can't collect millions if the patent represented only a tiny fraction of a defendant's product.

    That's all relative. Besides, plaintiffs still need to prove damages. Defendants still have an opportunity to rebut those damages.

    Congress should commission a study and hold hearings to examine whether software patents actually benefit our economy at all.

    I bet you can predict how that'll turn out. In any case, doesn't move the needle much.

  10. Re:How about by Dachannien · · Score: 2

    That's called inequitable conduct, and the punishment is invalidation of the issued patent. The burden of proof is only "clear and convincing evidence", not "beyond a reasonable doubt" or your pie-in-the-sky "beyond a shadow of a doubt".

  11. Re:How about by Jeng · · Score: 2

    My pie in the sky idea is to have actual criminal proceedings against those who attempt to defraud the US government and in actual criminal proceedings you need to prove guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt" .

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  12. How about an affirmative defense instead? by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 2

    IMO the problem with software patents is that there is no way to know if your software infringes one.
    Only #4 "Infringers should avoid liability if they independently arrive at the patented invention." even comes close to addressing the problem.

    My suggestion is this;
        Any computer built more than 1 year prior to the filing date of a patent, does not infringe that patent, regardless of how it is programmed.
        Likewise any software that runs on a computer built more than 1 year prior to the filing date of a patent, does not infringe that patent.

    Note that a strong argument can be made this is already true. I think we should lobby for a law that spells it out explicitly.

  13. Re:How about by Jeng · · Score: 2

    If he went along with it he is an accomplice and will be prosecuted along with those who he rats out for a reduced sentence.

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.