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'Nuclear Free' Maryland City Grants Waiver For HP

dcblogs writes "The City of Takoma Park, Md. this week granted a waiver to its public library to allow it to use some new HP hardware, whose products are otherwise banned under its 'nuclear free zone' ordinance. That law, adopted in 1983 one month after the Cold War-era movie 'The Day After' was aired, prohibits the city from buying equipment from any company connected to U.S. nuclear weapons production. The library bought new Linux-based, x86 systems from a Canadian vendor and didn't realize the vendor was using HP hardware. The hardware arrived in April and was unused until the Takoma Park city council granted it a waiver this week. The city's list of banned contractors was developed in 2004 by a now inactive group, Nuclear Free America, and hasn't been updated since."

59 of 277 comments (clear)

  1. Movies by AkaKaryuu · · Score: 5, Funny

    Movies, not reason, dictates their city policy.

    1. Re:Movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Welcome to "democracy".

    2. Re:Movies by Firethorn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not to mention -and has been since at least 1983.

      If I was in that town I'd be pushing for it's repeal. Just like I pushed for getting rid of the ban on selling alcohol to indians in my old town. Yes, the law called them Indians.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    3. Re:Movies by jeffmeden · · Score: 5, Funny

      Movies, not reason, dictates their city policy.

      You should see the stockpile of shotguns and Patrick Swayze clones they have on hand just in case Red Dawn comes true...

    4. Re:Movies by cpu6502 · · Score: 2

      >>>Movies, not reason, dictates their city policy.

      It all depends upon your viewpoint. The Greeks believed that plays (which is what a movie is: a film play) can not just entertain but also educate the audience. If I recall my AP english terms correctly, they called it "catharasis".

      I guess the Maryland Democrats who run this city experienced catharsis after viewing the destruction of a nuclear holocaust, and decided to no longer be part of any weapon manufacturing business.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    5. Re:Movies by bhcompy · · Score: 2

      At least they didn't base their policy on Threads

    6. Re:Movies by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Funny

      So given that Indians are no longer called Indians, does that mean that people descended from the indigenous population can be served but not the guys from India?

    7. Re:Movies by BackwardPawn · · Score: 5, Funny

      In an ironic twist, they stockpiled plutonium in case someone's DeLorean got stuck 30 years in the past. They did get a waiver for it, though.

    8. Re:Movies by Ferzerp · · Score: 4, Informative

      That word (catharsis) doesn't mean what you think it means.

      Catharsis is a purging of built up emotion/tension. It has absolutely nothing to do with education of any sort.....

    9. Re:Movies by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I guess the Maryland Democrats who run this city experienced catharsis after viewing the destruction of a nuclear holocaust, and decided to no longer be part of any weapon manufacturing business.

      Hmm, so the cure to war is to make sure that your side won't win if one happens?

      I've always preferred the "If thou would have peace, prepare then for war" POV....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    10. Re:Movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since they come from Asia, the aren't "Native Americans" either.

      "Indians" is actually less inaccurate.

    11. Re:Movies by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I guess the Maryland Democrats who run this city experienced catharsis after viewing the destruction of a nuclear holocaust, and decided to no longer be part of any weapon manufacturing business.

      Hmm, so the cure to war is to make sure that your side won't win if one happens?

      I've always preferred the "If thou would have peace, prepare then for war" POV....

      You don't need nukes for that; just look at Switzerland.

      Apparently arming the shit out of your populace (with automatic rifles) is a far greater deterrent to being attacked than stockpiling nuclear weapons.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    12. Re:Movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Apparently arming the shit out of your populace (with automatic rifles) is a far greater deterrent to being attacked than stockpiling nuclear weapons.

      Cool. Then we (US Americans) are covered on both counts.

    13. Re:Movies by cpu6502 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you were living during the Cold War, and seen this movie, that's pretty much what it did. I've always thought an emotional purging was educational. That movie certainly made me "wake up" and realize how dangerous it is to toy with war (especially if our victims have nuclear-equipped allies like Russia).

      >>>"Just rammed it through" def'n: any legislation that passes that you don't like.

      Actually the Maryland Democrats do pass some good laws. Like the recent decision to allow a student to attend any public school in the state they choose. But the reason I said "ram it through" is because the Republican legislators have no power. They could stay at home and it would make absolutely no difference.

      As for "majority rules" Democracy..... well ask the Executed Socrates how he feels about it. He was murdered by a simple democratic vote (they didn't like his speeches so they killed him). That's why Maryland and all the other States are REPUBLICS (rule of law & protection of basic human rights), not democracies.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    14. Re:Movies by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, the law called them Indians.

      Our largest local Indian confederation refers to itself as "Indians". The Indians I've known all call themselves Indians.

      The people I've known that get worked up about using "Native American" tend to be white and middle-to-upper class.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    15. Re:Movies by Bootsy+Collins · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Huh? Is this a troll?

      The reason it isn't surprising that such a law was passed in Takoma Park is because since the early-60s, Takoma Park has been famous for being a very-left-leaning home for granola-munching ex-hippies who have become financially stable boomers. For decades it was referred to as the Berkeley of the East; people in DC still often call it "the People's Republic of Takoma Park." I can't think of a time when Takoma Park was a town of "dumb rednecks"; and even now, when it's less leftist than it used to be, it's still far more that way than any place else anywhere near DC.

    16. Re:Movies by Immerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And before that from Africa, along with every other human on the planet. The term "native" has to have some cuttoff date or it's completely useless, usually a few (or few dozen) generations suffices. Or are we now classifying every single US citizen an "African American"?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    17. Re:Movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apparently arming the shit out of your populace (with automatic rifles) is a far greater deterrent

      The guns don't really matter much, except that an invader would be forced to treat the populace as combatants and inflict a high civilian death toll. Switzerland avoids attack because it is vanishingly small, protected by mountain ranges and devoid of natural resources. Politically and militarily irrelevant, in other words.

      Switzerland and its guns are like an 5lb dog barking at a 200lb mailman from behind a fence. The dog is brilliantly proud of itself when the mailman leaves the property.

      This situation does not apply to nuclear armed states.

    18. Re:Movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The people I've known that get worked up about it tend to be Indians, as in people from India. It's also confusing to pretty much anyone outside of the Americas, as people from India are pretty common while indigenous Americans don't go abroad as much. It can even get confusing in some parts of the US west coast where there are a lot of Indian immigrants. I don't think it's offensive; it just gets confusing if you spend a lot of time in California and Europe.

    19. Re:Movies by gmanterry · · Score: 2

      The Bureau of Indian Affairs calls them that too. Shocking.

      In Arizona Native Americans call their gambling properties "Indian Casinos".

      --
      Since when is "public safety" the root password to the Constitution?
    20. Re:Movies by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      Apparently arming the shit out of your populace (with automatic rifles) is a far greater deterrent to being attacked than stockpiling nuclear weapons.

      That's an interesting correlation, but the real reason is that they are smack in the middle of a continent that is connected to the main likely source of nukes (Russia), and I believe that the prevailing weather systems go that way, too. If Russia nuked Switzerland, it would be about a week (or less) before the cloud reached Moskva, and even less before the rest of the neighbors were overrunning Russia in retaliation.

      And, of course, if someone else nuked the clock makers, Russia would have a vested interest in stopping it pronto because of its proximity.

      Here in the US, the likely nuke tossers are far away and in less danger of nuking themselves at the same time. Some of them are actually fundamentalist radicals who would choose to lob a nuke if they had one just because it's US here and they want the 72 raisins. Or virgins. I mean, just look at Achmed. He's scary (but not as scary as Walter).

      Now, that's not to say that arming the civilians en-masse isn't a good thing, but it's not why Switzerland hasn't been nuked. It may be why they haven't been overrun by conventional forces of their neighbors, though.

    21. Re:Movies by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Funny

      Good for you for having principals

      He's a school district?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    22. Re:Movies by Khyber · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What's really shitty is that HP (not to defend them given my hatred of them) is mostly involved in a nuclear capacity with regards to medicine, not weaponry.

      This is an undeserved reputation.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    23. Re:Movies by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 2

      It was more about scaring the SHIT out of people (and kids like me.) I was in junior high at that time and the threat of nuclear war with the USSR felt very real to me. Maybe not to all kids, but definitely to me. The Day After was really scary IMO. It didn't make me think "war is a bad thing" it made me think "we're all going to die!!"

      Agreed. It was scary has hell at the time. Although the one thing I look back on and laugh about is how one of the main characters survives by ducking down in the front seat of his Volvo and surviving the shock wave. Everyone else on the freeway was vaporized. I remember thinking we really needed to get a Volvo after that.

    24. Re:Movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So the voice of the people isn't real democracy?

      Don't act like media influences are anything new. Go read Ben Franklin.

      Democracy doesn't mean sound, thought out logical ideologies. Which would often take literally forever for everyone to agree to. It's the current voice of the people.

    25. Re:Movies by Firethorn · · Score: 2

      I was basically told that they were no longer enforcing it. It was just in the book I got when I moved in along with some $10 fee for running a dance hall, rules on dog registration, etc...

      I'm not sure anybody fron India has actually been within 10 miles of the town, or that the guy running the single bar cares.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    26. Re:Movies by jamstar7 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Although the one thing I look back on and laugh about is how one of the main characters survives by ducking down in the front seat of his Volvo and surviving the shock wave. Everyone else on the freeway was vaporized. I remember thinking we really needed to get a Volvo after that.

      Who says product placement doesn't work???

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    27. Re:Movies by Creepy · · Score: 2

      Personally, I didn't find The Day After all that scary, having seen Damnation Alley and other movies with similar themes already (Logan's Run, for instance, which I saw on broadcast television, so it was even sanitized), but I also didn't take the threat of nuclear war with the USSR all that seriously. I didn't buy that either side would actually go through with it, no matter how much posturing was done. What person really wants to be responsible for the termination of life on earth? Neither side had anything to gain and everything to lose. I also happened to see War Games before then, and they put it perfectly - the only winning move is to not play the game. I also saw the Soviets failure in Afghanistan as sapping their will to fight. America had that in Vietnam, though we honestly we should have learned from Korea when China joined in - we had superior technology, they had millions people of people with knives and grenades willing to die for their country, and all because MacArthur had to take the last 10 miles or so of Korea to make the victory complete (and in doing so, pissed off China enough that they declared war).

      I also think it is laughable that we said we were "fighting communism," when really we were fighting dictatorships using a communist economic system. No theoretical communism was ever implemented as it was imagined, so calling it communism is a lie - it was a (poorly) distributed resource dictatorship. Go find some Amish or Mennonite communes and see how it is properly done (strong central leader is God though...).

      And yeah, I am old enough to remember duck and cover drills, which were absurd when I got older and realized how big a blast radius a fusion bomb had. Unless the bomb missed its target, anyone caught in the blast was a goner (it was second ring, so just outside of "vaporized instantly").

    28. Re:Movies by d3matt · · Score: 2

      equal rights amendment was not ratified by the states so no it's not in our constitution.

      --
      I am d3matt
    29. Re:Movies by Zordak · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Section 1 of the 14th Amendment:

      All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

      The 14th Amendment was not part of the original Bill of Rights, which was only concerned with limiting the power of the federal government to infringe on people's rights. The states could do almost anything they wanted within the limits of their own state constitutions. The 13th (ending slavery), 14th (civil rights), and 15th (right to vote regardless of race) amendments were passed after the civil war, and the southern states were forced to ratify them as a condition of being re-admitted to the Union. Under the 14th Amendment, most of the Bill of Rights now applies to the individual states.

      This law is almost certianly unconstitutional under the current 14th Amendment jurisprudence, but somebody would have to challenge it first. Since it's apparently not being enforced, it's not likely that anybody is going to bother with challenging it.

      --

      Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
    30. Re:Movies by geminidomino · · Score: 3, Funny

      Our lawyers will be contacting you shortly. Prepare to be both legally and bodily violated. We will make you sorry you were ever born.

      XOXOXOX,
      The Church of Scientology

    31. Re:Movies by fluffy99 · · Score: 2

      No more unconstitutional than all the other procurement regulations that steer business to black, women owned businesses (often at significantly higher prices too).
      As much as I'd rather see regulations that forced the govt to buy american made products, I know all too well how much paperwork and micromanagement such BS rules create. I'm tired of filling out the paperwork to prove that the monitor I'm buying is handicap accessible.

    32. Re:Movies by wcrowe · · Score: 2

      I'm part Indian (the American variety) and I used to roll my eyes when people would say "Native American". However, as you pointed out, there is a sizable number of Asian Indian immigrants in the U.S. now, and it can get confusing. I don't know what the solution is. I still don't like "Native American", it just has too many damn syllables to be practical.

      --
      Proverbs 21:19
    33. Re:Movies by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 2

      Yes, the law called them Indians.

      Why not?

      According to a 1995 US Census Bureau set of home interviews, most of the respondents with an expressed preference refer to themselves as American Indians or Indians

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    34. Re:Movies by Muad'Dave · · Score: 4, Funny

      Negative: I am a Meat Popsicle.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    35. Re:Movies by Angrywhiteshoes · · Score: 2

      Yes, the law called them Indians.

      Our largest local Indian confederation refers to itself as "Indians". The Indians I've known all call themselves Indians.

      The people I've known that get worked up about using "Native American" tend to be white and middle-to-upper class.

      I'm an Indian and I only make white people call me whatever the latest politically correct term is, I think there was something like "the people who lived her before the palefaces arrived."

      Get over your labels and don't be so afraid of history that you had nothing to do with.

      On the other hand, it would be hilarious if it also barred Indians from India from getting liquor.

    36. Re:Movies by Zordak · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While I agree with you personally, the ladies and gentlemen in the black robes do not. (Or more precisely, at least five of them have disagreed with us enough times.) I am often disturbed by the logical contortions those judges go through to justify institutional racism. (And it's not even "reverse racism." It's just racism.) How they think we can cure racism with more racism is a mystery to me.

      --

      Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
    37. Re:Movies by Frequency+Domain · · Score: 2

      ...That's why Maryland and all the other States are REPUBLICS (rule of law & protection of basic human rights), not democracies.

      REPUBLIC doesn't mean what you think, either. From Webster: Republic - a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

      Our protection of basic human rights comes from the constitution, not from being a republic.

  2. Restraint of trade by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2

    How much funding does the city have set aside to fight off 'illegal restraint of trade' lawsuits?

    1. Re:Restraint of trade by Akzo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Probably nothing, they can choose who they hire and purchase goods from legally.

      --
      Sig is for Signature, so you don't have to manually sign every post.
    2. Re:Restraint of trade by SJHillman · · Score: 2

      It's not banning sale of goods from those companies within the city, it's just the city government itself that can't buy them. A lot of government entities have whitelists of vendors... this city just happens to use an (outdated) blacklist instead.

  3. Just need a couple amendments by cellocgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe they should extend the ban to companies involved with biowarfare (agar, petri dishes, thermal control chambers), or to cyberwarfare (Microsoft, RedHat, and your son's best friend who became a script kiddy last night).

    --
    https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
  4. Try to keep up, people. by John+Hasler · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Nuclear free" is sooo 1980s. It's all about "greenness" now. You need to update your pc checklists monthly.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:Try to keep up, people. by kevkingofthesea · · Score: 2

      Why don't you quit shoving your PC-ness down my throat?

    2. Re:Try to keep up, people. by camperdave · · Score: 2

      Well, that's the issue, isn't it. Whether or not HP is PC.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  5. Re:LOL by SJHillman · · Score: 2

    PCs in Maryland function in much the same way their automobiles are driven.

    Hordes of monkeys fighting for control of an abacus.

  6. Re:Of all the stupid laws.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Really? Can not buy anything from a company that is related to US nuclear weapons production? Really? What a stupid do nothing make everybody feel good while accomplishing nothing lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya crap law!

    No, wrong problem. The REAL problem is that HP is involved in US nuclear weapons production. And now Microsoft is making their computer manufacturing partners very very angry, and one of those manufacturers is HP...

    Stay away from the Redmond, WA area for the time being, is all I'm saying.

  7. Seventh-day Adventist Church by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

    Takoma Park has long been a center for the Seventh Day Adventist Church, and 7DAs tend to be pacifists.

  8. like Steve Jobs security clearances to sell Pixars by peter303 · · Score: 2

    When Pixar was still a hardware company making graphics accelerators, Steve sold one to a DOD contractor. He had to get a security clearance to do so. Someone got the clearance data using FOI and posted a couple weeks ago. Both this and Nuclear Free Zones is some extreme government bureaucracy.

  9. If you lived in that town... by mekkab · · Score: 2

    ahhh, Takoma Park, MD! If you lived in that town, you'd be pretty pissed about the waiver, actually.

    --
    In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
  10. Re:Ilegal alien vote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because illegal aliens tend to be anti-nuke?

    No, because they almost exclusively vote Democrat.

    Regardless of any good reasons you might have to like the Democrats, it is they who stand to benefit from voter fraud and allowing illegal aliens to vote. That's why they raise such a huge stink whenever the requirement of photo ID to vote is mentioned. They use their old standby of how "racist" this would be, even though a photo ID is free in some states and very cheap in others. Not to mention it's racist of THEM to suggest that just because someone is Black or Hispanic they automatically can't afford a small fee.

    Anyway when it comes to illegals voting or standard voter fraud (dead people voting, etc), I wouldn't want the Republicans to get votes this way. Why should the Democrats get a pass? I don't think enough people appreciate just how critically important it is that we have honest elections. Rigged elections are a threat to our very way of life in this country.

  11. Re:Why is this News? by magarity · · Score: 2

    Many cities and other municipalities have ordinances like this. Why is this one instance news?

    The real lesson has nothing to do with any particular city being "nuclear free" or "sanctuary" or anything else in particular. The lesson is that government passes laws and leaves them on the books ad infinitum without ever revisiting them to see if they need updating or outright repeal. In this case, the special interest group that pushed for the law's latest version of specifics no longer exists. I bet people in that community have bumper stickers saying "question authority" but won't ever think of bringing up statues from the 80's for review,

  12. The subject was Takoma Park's anti-nuke policy by brokeninside · · Score: 2

    Plenty of Democrats are pro-nuke. So you're lacking a middle term for your syllogism. Even if it is true that most illegal immigrants that vote do so for Democrats, that doesn't explain why it's no surprise that the city council (and the voters at large in the city) are both anti-nuke and supportive of suffrage for non-citizens in local elections.

    Moreover, this is not about voter fraud. This is about a city that lawfully has broader criteria for who gets to vote in local elections. It's not about state or federal elections which have their criteria set by the state and federal government. So there is no fraud at hand.

  13. How about Taxes? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Do they refuse to accept tax payments from any residents who are employed by any company with ties to the nuclear industry? Because that would be blood money, yanno?

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  14. Takoma Park Kid by sampson7 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Takoma Park has long been a center for the Seventh Day Adventist Church, and 7DAs tend to be pacifists.

    Just FYI, Takoma Park's liberalness (which includes a bead store, vegan restaurants and the rest) has little to do with the Adventists, who aren't really a force in town. Instead, Takoma Park has a long hippy tradition and is filled with aging boomers who moved to the community because of its reputation as a liberal enclave. It's often referred to as the "Berkely of the East" and other such monickers.

    My favorite nuclear free story growing up was that the police department looked for a while like it was going to have to buy Volvo squad cars, because every other major manufacturer had some toe hold in nuclear weapons. Not sure how they managed to avoid that, but they did. Similarly, when the transit authority wanted to build a major highway right through the middle of Takoma Park (which at that point was a sleepy middle class suburb full of WWII bungallos), the local community rallied together and killed the massive highway plan on the Maryland side of Washington, DC. Those techies in Northern Virginia who enjoy the Mixed Bowl during their morning commute see what could have happened to Maryland. Of course, nothing's that simple -- but it's refreshing that there's still a place that combates global warming by banning gasoline-powered lawn mowers.....

    Takoma Park was a great place to grow up. Crazy as they are, it's refreshing to have such a community of idealists. Even though it seems like the whole community has gentrified over the last few years, I still love it, even as I've transitioned to the Dark Side (business! Eeek!)

  15. Say what? by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Say what? ANY company "involved"?

    I suspect to make nuclear weapons, you need, like, EVERYTHING. Bricks, mortar, screwdrivers, voltmeters, paper, pencils, pens, pipes (lots of pipes), cars, gasoline, welding rods, drill presses, lathes, etc, etc, etc, etc..............

    I think you'd be blocking the buying of almost everything, except maybe nail salon services.

  16. What about smoke detectors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How do they handle smoke detection, since the radioactive americium detectors in them are all manufactured by defense contractors that also work with other nuclear materials, including bombs?

  17. Old laws by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is why I like the idea of having ALL laws auto-sunset every 10 years(or so).
    1. Keep legislatures busy re-approving old laws rather than passing new
    2. Get a review of the old laws going.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  18. Re:So basically they watched a movie? by nomadic · · Score: 2

    You have no clue what it was like back in the early 80's; nuclear war was a horrifying possibility, and if a town wanted to make a statement against the idiotic proliferation of nuclear weapons then good for them.