Nintendo's Big-Screen 3DS XL Meets Lukewarm Reception

MojoKid writes "Nintendo took the wraps off its new, super-sized 3DS XL handheld on Friday, but reactions have been anything but enthusiastic. The new DS offers a larger set of screens (4.88 inches top / 4.18" bottom), better battery life, and will ship with a copy of New Super Marios 2 but it's launching into a very different market than what the original DS XL faced in 2009. The 3DS XL's battery improvements aren't just icing on the cake — they're seen as remedying a critical problem with the current handheld. It also won't support the second circle pad added by the Circle Pad Pro, which implies Nintendo is ready to kill that peripheral altogether. The other major problem is that a larger screen isn't really what the 3DS needed in order to be more successful."

Comments

Um, New Super Mario?

[BenJCarter]

Want that!

Re:Um, New Super Mario?

[kamapuaa]

Or you can just play an Old Super Mario, because they're basically the same thing.

Re:Um, New Super Mario?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hipster alert.

Re:Um, New Super Mario?

[jones_supa]

There IS something capturing about the games of 1990 era. Maybe it's that computers were sufficiently advanced, but not too powerful, which set just the right artistic bounds. Especially in the indie scene there is some works that go back to the experience, check out Resonance, for example. I hope that "simpler" 2D games and complex 3D worlds like Skyrim can coexist. :)

Re:Um, New Super Mario?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you did not enjoy DN3D and get no excitement out of Doom or Quake.

Re:Um, New Super Mario?

[Anonymous Coward]

you mean the late 70s to 80s era? you might be sentimentally attached to 2Ds in the 90 but if you had started gaming earlier they would mostly make you go "meh, another big-sprite rehash".

Re:Um, New Super Mario?

[suomynonAyletamitlU]

There IS something capturing about the games of 1990 era. Maybe it's that computers were sufficiently advanced, but not too powerful, which set just the right artistic bounds.

I disagree; I think the reason is that in the 90s, nobody was trying to industrialize game creation, or at least they didn't figure they'd gotten it right. A lot of the shining examples from back then were people that were self-motivated, self-organized, and given some free reign by publishers. As Big Business really got into it, they took the previous profit model--industrialization--and tried to apply it; that meant several things:

* Keeping up with the Joneses - If there's another competitor in your field, you compete with them by going point-for-point on comparable metrics, rather than differentiating your product

* Labor is expendable - "There's nothing special about what we're doing; it doesn't take a skilled artisan with a decade of coding experience, nor even a talented enthusiast, just a codemonkey twisting his wrench over and over like Charlie Chaplain in Modern Times."

* Brand reputation is expendable - It may seem counter-intuitive; after all, if you churn out 100,000 jalopys and can't sell them, your auto-making business will disappear. But company leadership can always sell off whatever's left over to the competition. The skilled labor changes hands, designs change, and some other rich shmoe becomes the new CEO and makes the same decisions as the last one. All of a sudden, it's a new company! Wow! The previous reputation means nothing.

HOWEVER, this is an entirely different thing when it comes to software, because intellectual property (software names, the characters, situations, and setting, along with art and other resources) is attached to the brand. Only one person gets to make, for example, Starsiege Tribes games, and if the person currently making Tribes games is making something you don't like, sorry pal, there's no equivalent good. What's that? You've been waiting 10 years for a sequel and it's a dud? What's that? You think you could do better? Sorry, as a matter of law and intellectual property, it ain't gonna happen. Maybe you could do better, but you won't be allowed to try. That's copyright/trademark for you! Hugs and kisses, signed, the Government.

* Customers are expendable - The industrial age brought the idea of mass consumption of goods from one single source. Compare beer and soda; beer is pre-industrial and there are so many brewing traditions the world over that many places have no need to produce it industrially, because there's enough local supply. However, local supply only matters if locals will buy your product; in contrast, a global product only has to turn a profit in one of the many regions they supply, and then cut their losses everywhere else. If your bad marketing decisions make you the enemy of a locale, culture, or nation, say sayonara and kick back with profits from other areas.

* The product is expendable - As long as you create something good enough to pay back costs (and things become "good enough" quite rapidly if you advertise enough--they're only really thinking about sales), it doesn't matter that your industrial process is flawed. If your process inherently creates defects, it will show up in ever product line you create for a decade, because oh well! Management decided that we're going to move on to the next product, which means not stopping to see what we did wrong. In any serious project management there's things like Lessons Learned, internal and process reviews, etc. I don't know but I'd wager a guess that most gaming industry companies don't take their work seriously enough to study their own behavior and improve it.

* Marketing is god - Industrialization doesn't start local. You don't make a run of 10,000 cars and sell them to the 10,000 closest people. You need sales people on the ground anywhere there could be a sale, sniffing out any profitable deal. If that m

Re:Um, New Super Mario?

[thetoadwarrior]

...because they're basically the same thing.

That hasn't stopped me from banging your mom and your your grand mother.

Re:Um, New Super Mario?

[Dogtanian]

you mean the late 70s to 80s era? you might be sentimentally attached to 2Ds in the 90 but if you had started gaming earlier they would mostly make you go "meh, another big-sprite rehash".

I'd have to agree with this. This is a 90s-era gamer attached to the style that was around when he/she started gaming. Fair enough, that's true of lots of people, and not just in gaming (applies just as much to music, for example). However, the GP shouldn't kid theirself that it's not a major factor in what they seem to think is a more objective opinion than it probably is.

I was never a rabid gamer, but I have to admit that my tastes were formed in the mid-to-late 80s and still reflect that. The fact that I played computer games with a traditional Atari joystick, and that some of the games were a few years old mean that I'm more attached to 8-bit games of the "late 70s to [late] 80s" era. And I can tell you that I just don't have the same opinion of 90s games. Even the Amiga stuff I was playing 20 years ago (with a few notable exceptions) doesn't do as much for me in retrospect.

Another example- I know we're all supposed to love Nintendo, but the truth is that they don't- and never did- mean much to me, probably because the NES was *never* as big in the UK as it was in Japan and Europe during the late 80s. Similarly, Mario... everyone loves Mario, don't they? Well, not really- I didn't grow up with him, and the Disney-esque, child-oriented nature of the character never appealed to me. You like the character because he reminds you of your childhood? That's fine, but he wasn't a part of mine and he doesn't mean a lot to me.

And I can tell you that the GP is probably kidding themselves if they think that their implication that the 90s was the pinnacle of computer gaming is free from bias. The 90s stuff- both early-90s Mega Drive/Genesis/SNES and late-90s PlayStation does little for me. (I *did* own a PlayStation briefly). I couldn't give a toss for Doom *or* first-person-shooters.

This is as much personal bias reflecting the point at which I played games the most- but my point is that this is just as probably the case with the GP as well!

In ten years time, the people who first gamed in the early-2000s will be saying the same thing, just like every younger generation growing older and becoming the establishment assumes that what was important to them growing up always should be.

Re:Um, New Super Mario?

[farble1670]

There IS something capturing about the games of 1990 era.

i find myself thinking that from time to time. i get nostalgic, and download and emulator and some ROMs. it doesn't take too long before i realize that my memories were deceiving me.

Re:Um, New Super Mario?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Or you can just play an Old Super Mario, because they're basically the same thing.

No, they're not.

What the3DS needed...

[Nova Express]

... in order to be more successful was for the iPad never to have been invented.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

... in order to be more successful was for the iPad never to have been invented.

Wrong market.

Portable game systems are generally aimed at younger audiences and are built for immersion. The games tend to qualify as "games" rather than "time wasters", the sort of stuff you get on the app store doesn't compare to full RPGs or platformers with 20-60 hours of play.

The 3DS' problem was, and is, that it sucks. The 3D is not a big enough gimmick to make people want to leave their almost-the-same DS behind. Nintendo sold a butt-ton of DS consoles, the 3DS has better CPU/GPU/RAM but the crap battery life and price hurt that badly. Nintendo should have just come up with something new instead of riding the 3DTV bandwagon, they're at their best (Wii) when they stop playing follow the leader.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[davester666]

Don't you mean Surface. Because that is going to totally steamroll the iPad.

Well, once they ship it.

Might take until they ship the second rev of the hardware, and the first service pack. But then, it's game over. Everything else will just be gone. PlayStations. Recycling bin. Wii's just wee in the corner. iPads (only the new ones) will be torn apart so their screen can be reused as an external monitor for the Surface. iPhones will be skipping rocks. Hell, desktops and laptops are done too, because the Surface can do it all. No compromises. Except for the small screen, no cellular wireless, keyboard you may have some issues typing with. But you'll still be able to run your DOS apps!

Re:What the3DS needed...

[hairyfish]

Contrary to the Apple Fanboy mantra, the iPad is not the be-all and end-all of everything electronic. Any gamer will tell you that there is no substitute for tactile buttons. Sure touch screens and motion sensors have their place, but when you want quick and responsive interaction, you can't go past physical buttons.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you mean Surface. Because that is going to totally steamroll the iPad.

Well, once they ship it.

Might take until they ship the second rev of the hardware, and the first service pack. But then, it's game over. Everything else will just be gone. PlayStations. Recycling bin. Wii's just wee in the corner. iPads (only the new ones) will be torn apart so their screen can be reused as an external monitor for the Surface. iPhones will be skipping rocks. Hell, desktops and laptops are done too, because the Surface can do it all. No compromises. Except for the small screen, no cellular wireless, keyboard you may have some issues typing with. But you'll still be able to run your DOS apps!

Judging by your post, I'm sure you can answer this question for me: what do paint chips taste like?

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. They're constantly coming up with useless gimmicks to justify a console with no 3rd party games and 1st party games that are all basically the same. This gimmick just ended up not catching on the way that gimmick did.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

It always fascinates me how people dismiss any game/system they don't like as being for younger audiences.

If you've ever spent much time on a mass transit system since the DS came out, you'd notice they were very popular with commuters. Less so now that everyone has a smartphone, but they're still popular.

Also, you might want to pay more attention to how things are selling. 3DS sales started going up after the price drop, then went up even faster once Nintendo started releasing more games for it. So far, it's been selling at a faster pace than the original DS did. The fact that they're bringing a second model to market that's aimed at a niche audience should tell you that it's selling rather well.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[rsborg]

Contrary to the Apple Fanboy mantra, the iPad is not the be-all and end-all of everything electronic. Any gamer will tell you that there is no substitute for tactile buttons. Sure touch screens and motion sensors have their place, but when you want quick and responsive interaction, you can't go past physical buttons.

Yes, but you can download games using the App Store, and have a 10" screen to play them... oh, and games cost $.99 or maybe $5. A "real gamer" might shy from it, but for every "real gamer" there's 10x casual games. Sad thing is, Nintendo envisioned this back in 2007 with their Wii - not built to satsify hardcore gamers, but great at a party.

Nintendo's (and Sony's) mobile gaming market has be severely disrupted in both price and technology. Yes, a $30 Zelda game is probably a great game, but is it really 30x more fun than Angry Birds on a large iPad display? That's not even covering those freemium role playing games where you can pay $0 and spend hours enjoyably - again, on a much larger screen than the DS.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

As someone who played every Zelda and every Final Fantasy out there, I must say that yes, they are 30x more fun than Angry Birds and any free/freemium/5$ RPG I found on the app market.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you mean Surface. Because that is going to totally steamroll the iPad.

Yeahhh, sure, just like the Zune displaced the iPod to become the number one personal media player....

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

By default then, MS should win at gaming then with SmartGlass that puts your games anywhere, with a huge range of mobile and core Directx driven titles in the next year or so.... Nah, stick with my Vita thanks, http://psp2roundup.blogspot.co.uk/

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dammit, must not post on /. before fully awake...I did not spot the sarcasm davester666 until after I hit the submit button, I'll drag myself out the back and shoot myself right away...

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean wall candy?

Re:What the3DS needed...

[lister king of smeg]

and that children is why we invented dosbox

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

Gremlins 2 costs $20, but Troll 2 only costs $2. I think we all know which one cost-conscious parents will choose.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[antifoidulus]

No, but its certainly enough to hurt Nintendo(and to a lesser extent Sony) by attacking 2 of their key markets, retro and casual games.

First look at Retro, Square has actually been doing a lot of pioneering in this territory. All their FF famicom games have already been released for iOS(and most if not all for Android IIRC), and FF Tactics seems to be doing pretty well as well. Now RPGs are more suited to touchscreens as you dont necessarily need to react to everything in real time, but a lot of companies are having success releasing retro games for portables.

The other, perhaps for Nintendo even more important market segment is casual games, esp. those for adults. The DS was able to mop the floor with the PSP in terms of total units shipped largely because they appealed to the casual gamer, but the casual gamer is moving in droves to cell phones, largely because for them its one less thing to carry.

Cell phones will never be a complete replacement for consoles, but they can still do a lot of damage to the portable market..... While this generation of portables is still quite young, it will be interesting to see if Sony's play for the more hardcore portable gamer ends up paying off as that kind of gamer is much less apt to choose a cell phone over a console.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[WaffleMonster]

Nintendo's (and Sony's) mobile gaming market has be severely disrupted in both price and technology. Yes, a $30 Zelda game is probably a great game, but is it really 30x more fun than Angry Birds on a large iPad display? That's not even covering those freemium role playing games where you can pay $0 and spend hours enjoyably - again, on a much larger screen than the DS.

YES. Given the cost of the platforms I would gladly pay $30-60 for games that didn't take someone sitting in their moms basement a week to make.

The wario slingshot touch screen bomb defender mini game included with mario 64 port to the DS is a heck of a lot more fun to play than angry birds ever was.

again, on a much larger screen than the DS.

If size matters the xbox on the jumbotron in my living room is lightyears ahead of the iP****

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

which ran on my fucking nokia N95 phone, 5 years ago.

no need for the surface to do that.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Tridus]

Which also won't run on ARM Windows 8.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Tridus]

Unfortunately for Nintendo, the DS was also popular with groups like commuters on the subway. Those people have all migrated over to tablets and smartphones, and they're not coming back.

Turns out they like the convenience of having one device and the huge selection of games at low prices more then they like gimmicky 3D with no battery life. Go figure.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

Though there are some brilliant games on iOS too, such as Final Fantasy, Ghost Trick, Phoenix Wright, Hector: Badge of Carnage, and so on. Some of them are premium priced — but that's premium for iOS, so $10 or $15 rather than $30.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[k(wi)r(kipedia)]

Portable game systems are generally aimed at younger audiences and are built for immersion.

And that is the problem. Mommies or daddies who have already bought an iDevice for their little brats or darlings are less likely to buy them an additional gadget just to play Pokemon and fat plumber. To a 'tween or teen, the difference between a dedicated handheld gaming device and a tablet or a smartphone is great, but to Mom and Pop it's just another "time waster" to Junior who's already too busy texting or network-socializing to do his homework.

Makers of handheld consoles should also look at the collapse in the market for dedicated Mp3 players. Just as the iPhone cannibalized the sales of the iPod, smartphones will eat into the market for handheld consoles. Full consoles like the XBox have a much better chance of weathering this gadget convergence since they offer the potential for a grander and more immersive experience.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

It shouldn't be entirely impossible to port - metro in WinRT allows you to program in some C++ subset, you've got DirectX, and I believe dosbox can work as a CPU emulator (so being ARM isn't in itself a problem). Looks like a lot of work, though.

Oh, and I wouldn't be surprised if it runs into some app store policy issue.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

20-60 hours sounds like a lot of "time wasting" to me...

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why the fuck do I want cellular on a fucking console, I have a MiFi to do that job for all the devices I carry, most people can just share the cellular they already have built into their phone if they need it, it is fucking stupid to have it built it to every fucking portable device, and will remain so until the networks let us have multiple cellular devices on a single contract for a reasonable price.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[eennaarbrak]

Nintendo sold a butt-ton of DS consoles, the 3DS has better CPU/GPU/RAM but the crap battery life and price hurt that badly

And yet the 3DS is ahead of the DS curve in terms of unit solds since date of release (albeit only after lowering the price to non-profit levels).

they're at their best (Wii) when they stop playing follow the leader.

which is a difficult feat, since they *are* the mobile gaming leader (for the moment, anyway).

From a game developer's point of view, the big incentive in the mobile space is that they can produce games at sub-AAA budgets, but sell them at equivalent $$$'s. On the iPad, no one is willing to buy a game for more than $10. On the home consoles, you have bigger potential profits due to the amount of games sold, so you have to invest more in order to compete with the big guys.

In the mobile space, you want games with cheaper development cost, but the same profit margin.

And that is where, I think, the 3DS will beat the Vita. Counter-intuitively, the lower specs of the 3ds means that consumers demand less spectacular graphics (which translates into less $$$ investment from developers). The Vita, I predict, will mostly get dumbed-down ports from AAA-budget games, while the 3DS will get more games developed specifically for the platform.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on how smart the parent is. One $20 game a child plays all the time is much better value than ten $2 games the child only plays once.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[hkmwbz]

Unfortunately for Nintendo, the DS was also popular with groups like commuters on the subway. Those people have all migrated over to tablets and smartphones

How can you be so sure about that?

Turns out they like the convenience of having one device and the huge selection of games at low prices more then they like gimmicky 3D with no battery life. Go figure.

In other words, Nintendo's problem is not competition from phones and tablets, but rather their own inability to follow up on what made the DS sell?

Re:What the3DS needed...

[hkmwbz]

The DS was able to mop the floor with the PSP in terms of total units shipped largely because they appealed to the casual gamer, but the casual gamer is moving in droves to cell phones, largely because for them its one less thing to carry.

If you look at the success of the DS, it sold because there were games for it that a lot of people wanted to play. People won't mind carrying one more thing if it actually has the right games. Remember, battery is an issue with today's smartphones. Why waste it all on games?

The fallacy here is that you think it's about the hardware, but it isn't. It's about the games. If Nintendo can manage to create games people want to play, they will sell like mad.

Cell phones will never be a complete replacement for consoles, but they can still do a lot of damage to the portable market

This assumes that people choose games based on platforms. They don't. they choose the platform based on which games they want to play.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[hkmwbz]

And yet the 3DS is ahead of the DS curve in terms of unit solds since date of release (albeit only after lowering the price to non-profit levels).

Not exactly a hard thing to beat, since the DS sold really poorly at first (until Nintendo started making games people wanted to play).

Re:What the3DS needed...

[hkmwbz]

Makers of handheld consoles should also look at the collapse in the market for dedicated Mp3 players. Just as the iPhone cannibalized the sales of the iPod, smartphones will eat into the market for handheld consoles.

The comparison is not a good one. With music, you can get the exact same content on an MP3 player as on an iPhone. You can not get Nintendo games for the iPhone. The iPhone does not cannibalize sale of portable gaming systems. Nintendo insisting on making the wrong games (those that don't sell systems) is what cannibalizes sales.

Full consoles like the XBox have a much better chance of weathering this gadget convergence since they offer the potential for a grander and more immersive experience.

With gaming, people (mass-market) don't want "grander and more immersive." They want interactive fun.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[hkmwbz]

Not really. The iPad is not relevant because what sells a gaming console is the games. The iPad does not have Nintendo's games.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[del_diablo]

Then again, based on Wikipedia, Nintendos handheld line started with one of their key inventors spotting a bored commuter trying to play with his calculator, because there was not much to do in the Japanese commuting train. That the handheld line is still a vital piece of equipment for a commuter is not strange, its rather to be expected.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[gameboyhippo]

Except the iPad's games (with some exceptions) aren't up to the quality of the games on the 3DS. An example is "Scribblenauts Remixed". Here, 5th Cell failed an opportunity to make something great. Instead of producing the definitive version of Scribblenauts, they made a gimpped version that removes everything that made Scribblenauts great such as multiple play environments, a level editor, etc... If you look at "Scribblenauts Unlimited", it has all of those features plus the ability to create your own objects! Until recently, the iPad version of "Phoenix Wright" had the same resolution as the DS version! So it looked like crap. About the only game that was actually better on the iPad was "Ghost Trick".

That being said, the iPad does have some great games such as "Plants vs. Zombies", "Angry Birds", etc... But all in all, I'm more excited about the 3DS's lineup than the iPad's and I'm willing to spend more money on 3DS games.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[hackula]

You sir, have clearly never played a Zelda game. I would not trade the experience of playing The Ocarina of Time for 100% ownership of the Angry Birds franchise. I know it sounds crazy, but Zelda is a religous experience. I know I am not alone.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[hackula]

When I was a kid we would sit and play the demo of a game for weeks straight, over and over again. Kids will play what they have got.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[P-niiice]

" It always fascinates me how people dismiss any game/system they don't like as being for younger audiences."

No, that criticism is for Nintendo products, and it's true.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[rsborg]

As someone who played every Zelda and every Final Fantasy out there, I must say that yes, they are 30x more fun than Angry Birds and any free/freemium/5$ RPG I found on the app market.

My point isn't that *you* don't value this - my point is there are many folks not like yourself who might not value it as much - if that ratio of non-gamers to gamers (who might disagree about 30 $.99 apps vs. 1 copy of Zelda) is anywhere near 5:1 or over, the price disruption is likely to happen.

This sucks for gamers and companies like Nintendo who face declining profits for those great games - but it's foolish to ignore the market at large - which has been greatly expanded by Android/iOS as touch-based devices with low development entry costs disrupt the talent scene.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is why Sony and Nintendo are kicking ass in the mobile market with their latest offerings, right? I love the PSP and Vita, but practically no one else does. Whereas people seem to love their phones and tablets based on sales and satisfaction surveys. There aren't enough "hardcore" gamers to care about "tactile buttons." Sorry, no soup for you Apple hater.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[shutdown -p now]

It shouldn't be entirely impossible to port - metro in WinRT allows you to program in some C++ subset, you've got DirectX, and I believe dosbox can work as a CPU emulator (so being ARM isn't in itself a problem). Looks like a lot of work, though.

Doesn't DOSBox always work as a CPU emulator? I thought that was the big difference between it and DOSEMU. And also why DOSBox exists on Android.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get all the hype over Surface. People hate on Windows, they don't appear to be too keen on Windows 8 in particular and they constantly moan about the build quality of any hardware Microsoft come out with so... isn't this just the perfect storm?

Re:What the3DS needed...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Wrong. They're constantly coming up with useless gimmicks to justify a console with no 3rd party games and 1st party games that are all basically the same.

Aren't we supposed to stop calling them gimmicks when the rest of the industry starts standardizing on them?

Re:What the3DS needed...

[antifoidulus]

The DS existed before everyone was carrying around a smartphone in their pocket. People will carry around a device if they absolutely have to in order to do what they want, but if they do not have to, they won't. Simple as that.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[hkmwbz]

The DS also existed when everyone was carrying around a smartphone in their pocket. People will carry around a device which does what they want it to do.

The bottom line is that people buy hardware based on what games they want to play. They don't choose hardware first, and then games. This goes for the mass-market, of course. Hardcore fanboys will choose the hardware first, but they do not affect the sales much.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[antifoidulus]

It existed, but its sales cratered due to competetion from smartphones. According to 'kipedia, from about 2006 to the end of 2009, the DS was going gangbusters,6 million a quarter in global sales, 2x that amount during the 4th quarter. Then what happens, DS sales fall off a cliff. Starting in 2010 they struggle to ship 2 million a quarter, 1/3 of what they were doing previously. But what was happening in that time frame in smartphones? Apple offered an aggressively priced iphone in the 3g when it released the 3gs, and Android finally became stable enough to be used by people who arent geeks. Result? DS sales fall dramatically. Yeah I know correlation causation blah blah blah, but the evidence is pretty strong.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[k(wi)r(kipedia)]

With gaming, people (mass-market) don't want "grander and more immersive." They want interactive fun.

Anecdotal: seeing some anonymous young kid in an elevator having fun with an Android game (not even an iPad/Phone!) is proof enough for me that there's no future in pure handheld consoles. Oh sure, the Nintendo is a better gaming platform for that kid. But how will he know if an smartphone is shoved into his hands first? I'm using the old "Windows is crap but I don't have a Mac/Linux box argument".

Re:What the3DS needed...

[hkmwbz]

Anecdotal: seeing some anonymous young kid in an elevator having fun with an Android game (not even an iPad/Phone!) is proof enough for me that there's no future in pure handheld consoles.

That's like saying that because someone went to one movie theater to watch one movie, they won't visit other movie theaters to watch other movies.

Oh sure, the Nintendo is a better gaming platform for that kid. But how will he know if an smartphone is shoved into his hands first? I'm using the old "Windows is crap but I don't have a Mac/Linux box argument".

How did the DS experience such explosive success when games like New Super Mario Bros. were released? Because the game was fun to play, and people told other people about it. That's why it didn't have the typical sales spike on release, only to take a nosedive the second week. NSMB sold consistently for a long, long time.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[hkmwbz]

No, sales cratered due to the lack of new games that appealed to a wide audience.

Remember, New Super Mario Bros. was released in 2006, and sold well for ages. It did not experience the typical first day/week sales spike only to completely fall on its face. It sold high numbers, consistently, for a long, long time.

Thanks for confirming that the DS sold well even after the iPhone was introduced. That is because there were games for the DS that people wanted to play, so they bought a DS.

If the iPhone had been the cause of the DS downfall, why did it not happen when the iPhone was actually launched?

The hardware doesn't matter. The games do.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[antifoidulus]

You didn't bother to read the post before replying, did you? The reason the DS did so well for about 2 years after the iPhone was introduced was that Apple had priced it so high that most people simply could not afford one(or at the very least didn't want to pay for one). Compared to a $500 a DS is a bargain, but in late 2009 Apple dropped the price of the entry model considerably(between free and the local equivalent of $99, depending on where you were in the world). After Apple did that iPhone sales skyrocketed. Cupcake, really the first stable version of Android fit for mass consumption, hit the market in April of 2009 and Android took off, with a large number of android sets either free or practically so.

The smartphone didn't hurt DS sales, the CHEAP smartphone did.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[hkmwbz]

iPhone sales were high from the start, so I have no idea what you are talking about. The DS kept selling well way after the iPhone was introduced.

The gaming market is not like other markets. The DS and Wii sold amazingly despite the "conventional wisdom" which people like you are preaching.

What sells game consoles is games. Increases and decreases in DS console sales have corresponded with whether games have been successes or not, not with what happened in the rest of the market.

What actually happened was that Nintendo didn't release any console sellers, and they were ending the DS's life cycle. Nintendo alone controls the sales of its consoles. It does so by releasing good or bad games.

Re:What the3DS needed...

[antifoidulus]

You simply aren't looking at the data, you are so wrong it isn't even funny.

All of Apples iPhone sales from 2007 to the end of 2009 were only about 30 million, less than 10 months worth of DS sales...But in 2010 alone they shipped 40 million units, more than the first 2.5 years combined, and in 2011 they shipped about 70 million, about as many as they had sold from 2007 to 2010. And 2012 looks like they will double again. And what have I been arguing? That the CHEAP smartphone(which made it ubiquitous) had a serious negative impact on portable gaming market. And guess what, the DS sold really well before the iPhone became cheap and Android became stable....and then cratered after that. And the data supports that no matter what you try to make up to claim that they don't. And 3DS sales thus far are pretty disappointing, further supporting the claim that smartphones are having a negative impact on their sales.

But then again, you aren't actually reading anything I say, aren't actually checking any facts, and just assuming I am saying something I am not then trying to show how I am "wrong" because the position you imagined for me isn't correct. I am not saying that cell phone games will kill portable games, I am not saying they are better for portable games, I am simply saying that in a few segments(segments where Nintendo is strongest) they are having a negative impact on system sales. You haven't shown me a single shred of actual evidence to the contrary, and then have the gall to claim that I am quoting "conventional wisdom". I have provided sales figures, you provide shit you pull out of your ass......

Re:Um, New Super what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol,

Let's face it. In the age of the touchscreen tablet, this rehash by Nintendo looks like something only the 10-yr old and under crowd would find acceptable, notwithstanding the cheapskate faithful addict market sector.

At this point you couldn't pay me to own one of these things unless the software was free.

I've got it! A new model for a dying industry. Let the advertisers embedded their messages and logos in the background of give-away software on dying platforms! At least then you'll be able to point out to your grandchildren that you were around when this old junk was first on the market, and they'll actually know what you're talking about cuz these things will still be in the pawnshops.

Comfort?

[TriezGamer]

My biggest issue with existing handhelds is the size. Sony's PSP and Nintendo's offerings have always been designed primarily for a Japanese market. As a result, my hamfisted hands can never hold one of these things comfortably, and even moderate duration play sessions cramp the hell out of my hands. With a larger overall size to the device, I'm hoping it will be significantly more comfortable.

Re:Comfort?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree wholeheartedly. I don't use my 3DS the majority of the time because of the form factor. The DS XL is far more tolerable.

Re:Comfort?

[Anonymous Coward]

Think more "kids" than "Japanese." Even Caucasian kids tend to have smaller hands than Asian adults. In Japan, a prevailing opinion is that this XL is aimed mainly towards the middled-aged and older, who might be attracted to the certain classes of 3DS games ("brain exercises," SNS-like games, and games they can play with their kids or grandkids) but whose eyes just aren't good enough anymore.

Re:Comfort?

[Anonymous Coward]

My biggest issue with existing handhelds is the size. Sony's PSP and Nintendo's offerings have always been designed primarily for a Japanese market. As a result, my hamfisted hands can never hold one of these things comfortably, and even moderate duration play sessions cramp the hell out of my hands. With a larger overall size to the device, I'm hoping it will be significantly more comfortable.

I guess any references to "lard" would be insensitive. Sooo ... you want a "Plus Size"/"Full Figure" version?

Or a PSP Of Dexterity+1?

Re:Comfort?

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing that helps with this problem ... The Nerf cases they increase the bulk of the DSes so that they are more comfortable.

Re:Comfort?

[Anonymous Coward]

They generally design for small to average sized hands. It's ok to admit you have big hands. Part of the target market of the XL models is people who have big hands, so you should be good.

Re:Comfort?

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is exactly why Microsoft needs to grow some balls and release a portable gaming device for the large-handed, fat Americans.

Re:Comfort?

[Anonymous Coward]

My biggest issue with existing handhelds is the size. Sony's PSP and Nintendo's offerings have always been designed primarily for a Japanese market. As a result, my hamfisted hands can never hold one of these things comfortably, and even moderate duration play sessions cramp the hell out of my hands. With a larger overall size to the device, I'm hoping it will be significantly more comfortable.

Bingo. I briefly owned a Nintendo DS. Bought Mario Kart the same day. Gave the whole thing to a nephew a week later. Because they didn't let you change the button layout, and their choice for the gas/brake/item use buttons made me have to contort my hands into a position where they cramped up horribly within a few minutes. I won't ever buy another Nintendo hand-held again. I ran into similar issues with controls on the Wii- either cramped hands or sore shoulders/wrists from how I had to hold it... never had any issues with the gamecube controller.

Seeya Nintendo, it was a good run you had but you've always been more about marketing gimmicks than substance, and they just aren't enough to compete with the Big Boys anymore.

Re:Comfort?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not just 'Japanese' hands, but kids' hands. These have to work for children, their primary market.

What you need is make a butterfly-backpanel that velcros onto the unit. That'll put the corners into your palms, and then fold up for travel.

Re:Comfort?

[Hatta]

I don't see the problem. The DS is still bigger than an SNES pad. Works fine in my western european man hands.

Re:Comfort?

[davidbrit2]

My petite, girlish hands are finally paying off. Hours of Kid Icarus with no pain. VINDICATION.

actually i was waiting for a larger screen...

[Anonymous Coward]

I always liked how DS games play like an old 90s SNES games but the screen is too damn small and then when the 3DS was smaller than the DSi XL there was no way I was going to buy one. Now that they finally made it a decent size I really might buy one. I just wish Nintendo would lighten up and allow indie developers to get in their app store because I would love to be able to make a game for it! I haven't own a console since PS1 but I really think I could go for a 3DS XL.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[bussdriver]

1st person shooters have done little to change despite a whole console (X360) dedicated to them. They change a few things and add levels; but THANKFULLY do not waste with redone themes and new cut scenes to disguise the rehash around a lame new movie plot.

Mario is THE platform game and all of the genre tries to achieve Mario's perfection. I am sure glad they don't make a "Mario: The yearly sequel" with video cut scenes from a plot book, "edgier" graphics, different enemies that all work the same, another kind of fireball which kills stuff the same, yet another tutorial level, and even more ironic realism.

lol

[diyosatou]

cool.. looking forward to it ^^

Nintendo Doubling Down?

[mentil]

In forums it seems everyone wanted the 3DS Lite, with better battery life and form-factor, ideally with built-in second circle pad.
Nintendo hasn't announced how much better the battery life of the 3DS XL is compared to the original, just that it's 'better'. Better than the available aftermarket batteries?
The XL is now arguably too large to fit in a pocket. This is crucial, since once you get past 'pocket size' you have less reason not to go with a PS Vita or a tablet.

The larger size makes touch controls easier to nail, especially with the finger, which is useful for some games. Deemphasizing the circle pad pro is probably due to the games utilizing it mostly being shooters, and they don't want it to become a 'shooter system'. The people who buy a system for shooters would get a PS Vita, and trying to compete toe-to-toe with the Vita could be a big problem (the original PSP sold well but its games were mostly in different styles/genres from what the DS had.) In other words, market differentiation.

Something I was hoping for from a redesign would be better viewing angle for the 3d effect, as you have to look at it pretty head-on or else you lose the effect -- not good considering the system utilizes gyroscopes and cameras in games that require you to move the system around. And if you're on a bus or something, (I speculate) you'd lose the effect as you bounce around.

I see this as a move to give them an excuse to sell the system at a (probably profitable) $200.

Re:Nintendo Doubling Down?

[Hadlock]

Kids normally carry these things around in a carrying case with about 9 other games + accessories, battery charger, etc. That then goes inside their school bag. Whether or not it actually fits in a pocket is pretty trivial for 90% of users, so long as it's smaller than a netbook.

Re:Nintendo Doubling Down?

[dbIII]

The XL is now arguably too large to fit in a pocket.

One of the selling points of the 6 inch ebook readers is that they still fit in a large pocket.

Nintendo as bad as Sega was with peripherals

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm tired of them thinking they can roll out new devices as add-ons simply as games require them. Alternative input devices don't get good game support and so make suckers out of the people who buy them.
Like myself buying a classic controller because I thought at least 1st and 3rd person games would (of course) support the control scheme, but rarely did. Meanwhile, games that could make good use of such devices often opt to dumb-down their controls to accommodate the wiimote and nunchuck so if they do make the controller option available, it's clunky and useless.
Circle Pad Pro? Sounds like exactly what the 3DS was missing and of course it's gonna be dead the first time I'm even hearing of it on.

They should SHIP with all the features they know they need to enable developers to make their platform competitive.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[kamapuaa]

I am sure glad they don't make a "Mario: The yearly sequel"

2007 - Super Mario Galaxy
2009 - New Super Mario Bros. Wii
2010 - Super Mario Galaxy 2
2010 - Super Mario All-Stars 25th Anniversary Edition
2011 - Super Mario 3D Land
2012 - New Super Mario Bros. 2
2012 - New Super Mario Bros. U

Kill the Circle Pad Pro, :/

[Anonymous Coward]

Where did Nintendo say that?
Kill the Circle Pad Pro

No no, they'll just make one for the XL.

It's not a NEW device, it's the OLD device with a larger screen and battery. Nintendo can't add anything to it that wasn't in the original device without breaking backwards compatibility. Has any popular console ever done so? Nope.

Anyone who thought they would make the circle pad pro part of the device is sorely stupid and need a reality check. Features disappear from revisions, never added. Check the PS3. Loss of features. Same with the Xbox 360 to the S model, the Kinect wasn't automatically included with all new models. Derp derp.

Summing Up The 3DS

[rsmith-mac]

As someone who does a lot of handheld gaming (need something to do on those long business trips...) I'm in complete agreement with TFA for once. They're spot on in summing up the 3DS's current shortfalls.

The 3DS really made two cardinal sins that are going to be difficult for Nintendo to correct for. The first was that Nintendo jumped on the 3D bandwagon at a great financial and technical cost. That autostereoscopic screen is really expensive to manufacture, and it's the single biggest power hog on the 3DS (it needs a very strong backlight). As a result it's also the primary reason for the 3DS's terribly unportable battery life of 3-5 hours.

The second sin was of course the control scheme. Actually, having one circle pad wasn't the problem; the problem was that Nintendo then went and designed their flagship 3DS title (Kid Icarus) around a convoluted control scheme that all but requires a stand in order to allow the user to use the one circle pad, the stylus, and the buttons at the same time. Consequently everyone who picks up Kid Icarus quickly comes to the same realization: this would be so much easier with two circle pads.

If Nintendo had gone in a different direction with Kid Icarus so that it worked well with the 3DS in your hands, no one would be the wiser. Instead by releasing a game with poor controls they've drawn attention to their own control deficiencies. Ultimately as a 2011 product they probably should have just done two circle pads in the first place, but really no one would have noticed or cared if their first party games had worked well with the one pad. Essentially they created the problem where there previously wasn't one.

Furthermore the 3DS XL can't really solve any of these problems, all it can do is exchange them for new ones. The larger battery improves the battery life for example, but now the console is oversized and unpocketable, and the pixel density becomes very poor. Nor does it do anything about the control problems, if not making them a bit worse since a Circle Pad Pro hasn't been announced for the XL. The only problem the 3DS XL really solves is the same problem the DSi XL solved: it allows Nintendo to go after the niche market of people who find the pocketable form factor too small to use (primarily the older generations with their poor eyesight and muscle control).

If Nintendo really wanted to fix the 3DS they could, but it would be painful and I can't blame them for not wanting to do it. They'd have to release a 2DS with a traditional (non-autostereoscopic) screen and a second circle pad. The former would solve the battery life issue, and the latter would solve the control issue. The problem with this being that besides the reputation hit they would take, it would also mean that current 3DS owners would be forced to buy the Circle Pad Pro, which would not go over well with what's effectively a budget market.

In the meantime the 3DS and 3DS XL are sitting on top of a dysfunctional mobile gaming market. Cell phone games suck because of control issues and the limited development resources that $0.99 can buy, the old DS is getting very long in the tooth, and the Vita - though the most traditional and sane of the current generation handhelds - is expensive and unpocketably large. No one seems to be capable of offering what the market has traditionally wanted: a cheap, pocketable device with good controls and the battery life to last through a transcontinental flight.

Re:Summing Up The 3DS

[arose]

I don't think they as much jumped on the bandwagon as tried to steer it in a better direction. Sony will sell you an expensive new TV with the same old shutter glasses that didn't work last time, that's jumping on the bandwagon. Nintendo actually managed to make the 3D part nice, which is not something I can say about any other mass marked 3D tech, however I agree that it was unwise to let it come at the cost of battery life. Maybe next time Nintendo, for now I have Skywards Sword and more games then I could possibly go through on the DS.

Re:Summing Up The 3DS

[Anonymous Coward]

As a result it's also the primary reason for the 3DS's terribly unportable battery life of 3-5 hours.

You mean the same battery life you get out of an iPhone if you're using it to play games? Oh wait, it's Apple, 5 hours are enough for that.

Re:Summing Up The 3DS

[hattig]

5 hours is fine for a portable gaming device, if you recharge it every day or two, depending on how much you use it. If you've got time to game for over 5 hours a day then you'll probably be in a place you can be on the console or recharge the handheld device whilst playing.

The larger screens and better spaced controls on this XL variant will fit into western hands far better than the previous iteration.

In the end however it comes down to cost. $199 is better than the launch price, but it is still a lot. Also the hardware isn't very powerful compared to smartphones and competitors.

Re:Summing Up The 3DS

[rsmith-mac]

Yes, the same exact crappy battery life. Which is reason #3 why smartphones make for poor handheld gaming devices, right behind the lack of control options and the limited quality afforded by $0.99 games.

Re:Summing Up The 3DS

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've got time to game for over 5 hours a day then you'll probably be in a place you can be on the console or recharge the handheld device whilst playing.

Like an international flight or long bus/train ride?

Re:Summing Up The 3DS

[JustAnotherIdiot]

Consequently everyone who picks up Kid Icarus quickly comes to the same realization: this would be so much easier with two circle pads.

My realization was "Gee, I sure wish I could use the D-Pad for movement!"
The way the circle pad is shaped, any amount of perspiration on you fingers immediately causes it to be uncontrollable.
And with fast paced games like Kid Icarus? Unusable.

Re:Summing Up The 3DS

[CastrTroy]

It doesn't matter if the hardware isn't as powerful as smartphones. Because smartphone games don't have access to the bare hardware. This means there's a lot of speed problems on cellphone games. If I'm playing a somewhat graphical game, and a text message comes in, my dual-core 1GHz cellphone stutters for a few seconds. Definitely not fun when you're in an interesting part of the game. Sometimes, the apps/games run really slow, for no reason I can discern, possibly because of other apps running in the background. Cell phones really do make for a terrible gaming experience.

Re:Summing Up The 3DS

[RyoShin]

Nor does it do anything about the control problems, if not making them a bit worse since a Circle Pad Pro hasn't been announced for the XL.

This, right here, is what tells me Nintendo hasn't gotten it for a while. You have more room, why not add the second Circle Pad? We already have a few6 games that do use it, and many more that would probably take advantage if it was there. They were fairly aware back in 2006-2008 and did a lot of good moves with the Wii (and some bad ones). Now, six years later and the dominant force in both home consoles and handhelds, they have the chance to not only progress but also fix any previous mistakes. And what do they do?

The N64 2. They've gone back to the ego-centric and closed-mindedness that led to the N64 from the SNES and will suffer exactly the same for it. Don't believe me?

• They ignore format upgrades
  With SNES->N64, it was not going from cartridge to CDs.[1] For Wii->U, it's ignoring the now-huge HDTV market. Wii U games run in 720p, including their much-hyped NSMBWU2BBQ. While not as dire as the cartridge mishap, it still shows that they don't understand the high-end consumer, which is the one that is far more likely to have a higher attach rate[2]
• They ignore storage capacity
  Once again about the whole cartridge/CD decision, except this time it's about internal storage. The Wii U will only have 8 GBs internal storage. Supposedly they'll support external hard drives in some fashion, but they could still really hurt themselves as they try to expand their downloadable market (and heaven help us if a developer wants to install files to it to help a game run faster.)
• The name
  I don't know that the N64 ever got a lot of flack for its name, but it was extremely generic. Using "Wii U" as the successor to "Wii", which already had plenty of jokes to go with the name (though those were quickly shut down by sales numbers) has only led to a lot of confusion; Jimmy Fallon thought it was a new controller for the Wii during Reggie's recent late-night visit, and the day of Nintendo's E3 conference a prominent newspaper (I want to say USA TODAY) also referenced the Wii U as merely an extension of the Wii, though I can't find the article and they likely updated it to correct that bit of mis-info.

  For someone like me, it just makes me think of more shovelware, bad online presence, and a focus on things like "Wii Play" instead of, I dunno, getting something like Xenoblade Chronicles to the states in less than two years after it's Japanese release (and nearly a year after the EU/AUS release!).

And there are plenty of brand-new screw ups, like still using those horrible friend codes in some capacity. I don't care if they're "Simplified", they need to die completely. Even the hardware looks generic, doing away with the sleek and minimalist design that a lot of people liked about the Wii. I could go on and on, like how the controller looks like crap (after they gave us the Gamecube controller, which I still believe is the best controller design of any console thus far).

The decisions behind the Wii U and 3DS XL (and their E3 conference, which investors apparently didn't care for, either) just show me that Nintendo has once again lost its way, and we've got a good two generations before they realize this and do something understandable again. What makes this worse is that even while their consoles were floundering, Nintendo's handhelds were still going strong and every iteration made huge strides (such as from the original GBA to the GBA SP and pretty much every change to the original DS hardware). Now that no longer seems the case. The Nintendo fanboy within me weeps in a corner as I start eying the

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[rsmith-mac]

They've been pimping Mario harder than usual lately, but really they have done a fine job of keeping it fresh until the last year. Even SMG2 (the most direct Mario sequel in years) did a great job improving on SMG1's concepts and exploiting what worked well. Rather than feeling like a rehash Nintendo made it feel like the game SMG1 should have been from the start, and consequently it's still the gold standard for 3D platformers.

Now the new renditions of New Super Mario Bros. on the other hand may be where the wheels start to come off. So far Nintendo hasn't shown that the new games are a great deal different than their predecessors; they don't do a good job showing off the capabilities of their new hardware, and if anything it looks like both games will be easier than NSMB Wii. At the same time Ubisoft has shown a shocking knack for 2D platformers with Rayman: Origins, which means for the first time in a long while a good platformer is available on a non-Nintendo console.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[interkin3tic]

You're mixing 2D platformers, 3D platformers, and rereleases in there.

And, I think bussdriver meant "Yearly releases" as it is typically used with games like call of duty: there's little to no difference between releases. Super mario galaxy and new super mario bros are completely different games.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but they're both...you know...stupid fucking Mario games.

Re:Um, New Super what?

[Gadget_Guy]

Let's face it. In the age of the touchscreen tablet, this rehash by Nintendo looks like something only the 10-yr old and under crowd would find acceptable, notwithstanding the cheapskate faithful addict market sector.

The trouble with touchscreen gaming is that it does not suit games that require a controller. The virtual d-pad is too finicky and is no replacement for real buttons (IMHO). I will happily play games that require the touchscreen or gyroscope on my iPhone, but I will jump back on my DS Lite for platformers.

The thing that stops me from getting a 3DS is the region coding. I don't want to have to even think about where I am buying something from when I am shopping online.

One more perk (for european players)

[Anonymous Coward]

It will come without a battery charger

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[Anonymous Coward]

These aren't sequels, there are a few different games in there - that just happen to have the same lead protagonist (Mario). Mind you there are a LOT of Mario games missing from your list. But really, what a list of great games!

There will be a hardcore (a quite large hardcore) who'll buy the Wii U just to play Mario. Yes, I'm in that queue.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't feel this changes anything (well, maybe mario 25th, which wasn't promoted so hard). They're all the hyped annual releases of a Mario platform game.

Re:Nintendo great producer of PLASTIC crap.

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the insightful testimony. Fucking fanboys. Is it possible to have a rational discussion without at least one person piping up and shouting "OMG NINTENDO SUCKS! MORE LIKE GAYTENDO! PS3 ROOOOOOOLZ"

Re:Nintendo great producer of PLASTIC crap.

[FunPika]

And even worse the GP was modded +1 informative.

Indeed

[SmallFurryCreature]

What Final Fantasy 3DS game?

The 3DS sadly showed Nintendo did not quite get their own market.

The DSi XL was brilliant. Going to a tiny low res 3d screen after that felt insane. It is not just that 3D wasn;t as big a thing as some thought, the screen itself was pants especially compared to the DSi XL screen.

And right now, the new 3DS XL just seems very very low rez. The phone and tablet markets are in a pixel race and nintendo ain't even competing at the bottom. 400 x 240 is the resolution for the top (3D) screen. Back when Nokia still rules the phone market, they already considered this low. Very low. With retina displays and full HD phones out, this just looks BAD. REALLY REALLY bad. If anyone dared to launch a phone with such a screen they would be laughed out of the market even if they offered to pay you to use it.

And Nintendo not only expects you to pay but pay through the nose. The gap between other platforms and the Nintendo handheld has just kept on increasing, partly because the competition has leaped ahead while Nintendo has sat still.

The same issue is true with the Wii, when it launched, HD screens were not that widespread yet, but nowadays, they are and boy do the Wii graphics look bad. Some of the games are good but the graphics really hurt your eyes if they are played on a larger screen.

And the 3DS XL is just that, a bigger screen, the original 3DS games were already pixelated to hell and back, now they just increased the size of the pixels when everyone else has been making them smaller.

There is a limit to how low budget you can make your hardware and software look and still charge premium prices for it. See the mockups people made for the 3DS and how the final product turned out. Gosh, people sure were wrong weren't they... or maybe it was Nintendo who was wrong.

Markets move on. Nintendo hasn't.

Re:Indeed

[BenoitRen]

The same issue is true with the Wii, when it launched, HD screens were not that widespread yet, but nowadays, they are and boy do the Wii graphics look bad. Some of the games are good but the graphics really hurt your eyes if they are played on a larger screen.

Nice hyperbole, there.

Unless you're a HD fanboy, there's nothing wrong with the Wii's graphics. Of course, if you play them on a crappy LCD HDTV that's bad at upscaling, the image will look like it's smeared with vaseline, but that's not the Wii's fault.

Re:Indeed

[del_diablo]

Smeared with vaseline? At the least get a composite video cable alreay. Interlacing should have been killed at the turn of the century, and not roughly next year.

Re:Indeed

[BenoitRen]

Progressive scan helps, but if the LCD monitor's upscaler is bad, you will get a bad image, no matter how good your cables are.

By the way, I think you meant component, not composite.

Re:Indeed

[karnal]

you mean component?

Re:Indeed

[hackula]

Once you go HD, you never go back. That's all I'm saying.

Re:Indeed

[Anonymous Coward]

For what it's worth, the Wii U seems poised to be the first 'real' HD console. Almost everything on the Xbox 360 and PS3 runs at 720p or below; many games which advertise 1080p to the TV are rendered at 540p and then blitted to 1080.

The market has shifted

[Tridus]

The reality for the 3DS is that the market shifted. A lot of DS's were sold to "casuals". Those people are discovering in droves that their phone also does gaming, and for many of them that's good enough. It's convenient & cheap. Nintendo has no answer for those people since they so steadfastly refuse to make games for other platforms (ie: the hardware people actually have).

Instead they're trying to make people pay a Nintendo hardware tax to play first party games on the 3DS, which is really all it's good for. They've only been moderately successful doing that, because when the price was high enough to make money nobody was buying. Now they're moving units, at a loss. All that for some gimmicky 3D tacked onto what is otherwise a really unimpressive piece of hardware. Yay?

The Wii U Is just more of the same. Pay money for Nintendo hardware because that's where Nintendo's game developers are shackled to. It's a shame, their game developers are some of the best around and I'd love to see what they could do on better hardware. I've had enough though, and I'm not paying the NIntendo hardware tax anymore. If they don't want to make games for hardware that I already have, then I'll buy games from the people who will instead.

Re:The market has shifted

[Eponymous Coward]

We bought our kids an iPod Touch instead of a Nintendo 3DS last Christmas and it was a good decision. The iPod has lots and lots of free and very cheap games and no cartridges to lose or break. Plus the iPod does a lot more. If you want to play Mario, you have to buy Nintendo's hardware, otherwise I think there are much better alternatives out there, especially for children.

Up until that point, we have been spending lots of money on Nintendo stuff. Since then, nothing.

As much as people like to complain about Apple's tightly controlled environment, they are anarchists compared to Nintendo.

Re:The market has shifted

[Anonymous Coward]

At least be honest and say that it's a better alternative for parents, you are happy that you spend less, doesn't seem like you care nearly as much about anything else, like how enjoyable the kid finds it and if highly repetitive games are better or worse than fullsized ones for brain development.

Nintendo fails to see the point...again.

[windcask]

Nintendo, no one wants to carry around a dedicated portable gaming console anymore, "3D" or otherwise. Can't you see that the future of portable gaming is on slate devices that are not made exclusively for gaming? Kids (and adult gamers) don't want to have to switch devices to check their Facebook and Twitter accounts, watch a movie, listen to music, etc. Either give us a slate to compete with the likes of the Galaxy, Xoom, iPad, etc. or GTF out of the way and start making games for said devices.

Re:Nintendo fails to see the point...again.

[Lumpy]

I will agree with you for simple games. FPS and driving games SUCK on a tablet. no I dont want to tilt it, I want a zero lag controller. and buttons.

Re:Nintendo fails to see the point...again.

[Anonymous Coward]

I certainly want to carry around a dedicated portable pocket-size gaming console.

Re:Nintendo fails to see the point...again.

[MistrBlank]

You aren't the majority, therefore your dollars don't count.

Re:Nintendo fails to see the point...again.

[CronoCloud]

Kids (and adult gamers) don't want to have to switch devices to check their Facebook and Twitter accounts, watch a movie, listen to music, etc.

in 2004 a company released, a portable gaming device that soon had a built in web browser, that had the ability to watch video and listen to music. Some Slashdot nerds said back then that the media ability was a waste and that it should have focused ONLY on games. So you're saying that the company involved, whos name might be Sony, and that the device which might be called the PSP, was a good idea all along?

Re:Nintendo fails to see the point...again.

[windcask]

Yes. It was just simply a question of timing. In 2004, portable devices weren't powerful enough to handle full-scale web browsing, and Facebook/Twitter didn't exist yet.

No sense of feel, like the Intellivision II

[tepples]

The trouble with touchscreen gaming is that it does not suit games that require a controller.

I agree. The problem is that the player can't feel where his finger is relative to each button. This has been a problem since the Intellivision II got rid of the bumps on its keypad.

I will happily play games that require the touchscreen or gyroscope on my iPhone, but I will jump back on my DS Lite for platformers.

So to which platform should an indie developer port a platformer that has been developed for the PC? Or are platformers a genre for major labels only?

Re:No sense of feel, like the Intellivision II

[CronoCloud]

So to which platform should an indie developer port a platformer that has been developed for the PC?

All of them. Or more accurately as many as you can.

Or are platformers a genre for major labels only?

No, but if you want to publish it, it would help if one was an already established developer. Many of those so-called "indie" dev houses did JME games before they did their big hit. As i've told you, the easiest way to break in the industry will be to work for an already established company. If you don't want to do that, just give it up already.

Re:No sense of feel, like the Intellivision II

[tepples]

As i've told you, the easiest way to break in the industry will be to work for an already established company.

I'm slowly trying to take you up on this. What are already established companies (the kind that are likely to be 3DS licensees) looking for in a candidate's resume and portfolio?

Re:No sense of feel, like the Intellivision II

[arose]

If thw Wii shop is any indication the single most important things is to have oodles of fans, e.g. World of Goo, Cave Story.

Big auto and big oil killed mass transit

[tepples]

It always fascinates me how people dismiss any game/system they don't like as being for younger audiences.

Smartphones are for people who can pay a smartphone's monthly bill. Kids in grade school can't.

If you've ever spent much time on a mass transit system since the DS came out

Slashdot is operated from the United States. The United States relies much less on mass transit than some other countries do, and that's because GM, big oil, and a couple tire companies bought the mass transit industry to kill it. GM was convicted of conspiracy but got only a $5,000 slap on the wrist.

Re:Big auto and big oil killed mass transit

[Anonymous Coward]

Smartphones are for people who can pay a smartphone's monthly bill. Kids in grade school can't.

So what you're saying is that adults are morons who pay insane monthly fees for something that's only marginally useful.

And they wonder why kids think they're smarter than them.

Re:Big auto and big oil killed mass transit

[Anonymous Coward]

Try living near a major city. I can tell you that it's really easy to see people with a DS or 3DS in the NYC area.

Re:Big auto and big oil killed mass transit

[Golddess]

It always fascinates me how people dismiss any game/system they don't like as being for younger audiences.

Smartphones are for people who can pay a smartphone's monthly bill. Kids in grade school can't.

You wouldn't happen to be Ilkka Raiskinen, would you? :P

Joking aside, I'm afraid I don't see how saying smartphones are for people who can pay a smartphone month bill is related to saying that the 3DS a system for children.

How do you count the iPod touch?

[tepples]

Makers of handheld consoles should also look at the collapse in the market for dedicated Mp3 players. Just as the iPhone cannibalized the sales of the iPod

In this case, are you counting the iPod touch as an iPod or as the 3.5" Wi-Fi tablet that it is?

smartphones will eat into the market for handheld consoles.

Multitouch smartphones like the iPhone and PDAs like the iPod touch have the same problem as the Intellivision II: you can't feel where your thumbs are on the screen.

Re:How do you count the iPod touch?

[h4rr4r]

You can get controllers that solve that. They hold the phone in a mount. Far cheaper than buying another gaming device.

Re:How do you count the iPod touch?

[k(wi)r(kipedia)]

In this case, are you counting the iPod touch as an iPod or as the 3.5" Wi-Fi tablet that it is?

Missed that one. I meant the (original) iPod as a synonym for mp3 players. So maybe the iPod has evolved into a low-end iPad..

As for not feeling your thumbs, most games playable on a handheld don't require the ultrafast reflexes necessary for a full console game as handheld games tend to be largely visual affairs. Also the controls of a console aren't really that great either when compared to something like the humble mouse. I'm sure playing Angry Birds is a much more pleasant experience on a tablet than on a handheld console armed with just a thumb pad. On a tablet you can point your fingers directly at the object you want to move.

Handheld consoles will survive only by becoming extinct, like the iPod becoming more like a SIM-less iPhone, like dinosaurs evolving into pig-killing feathered fiends.

Re:How do you count the iPod touch?

[hkmwbz]

Also far more cumbersome.

Why won't RT run a port of DOSBox?

[tepples]

DOSBox is a full emulator, not a virtualizer like Wine, and runs on any platform that can run native code. Windows RT will run native code as long as it's either from the Windows Store or installed using a developer key. Microsoft provides these keys free of additional charge, unlike Apple and definitely unlike Nintendo.

Only lockdown keeps DOS apps off Wii

[tepples]

Except for the small screen, no cellular wireless

Cellular comes with a fairly hefty monthly bill, making it a luxury that a lot of people in the North American market (which makes up three-fourths of the developed anglophone world) still can't afford. That's why the base model iPad, the base model iPhone (called the iPod touch), and the base model PS Vita still come without cellular.

Wii's just wee in the corner. [...] But you'll still be able to run your DOS apps!

If it weren't for Nintendo's lockdown, Wii would be able to run DOS apps too. There's a DOS PC emulator that can run on a jailbroken Wii.

Re:Only lockdown keeps DOS apps off Wii

[Anonymous Coward]

The Wii is the best homebrew system there is. And pirate friendly, yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaeerrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Not even worth $0.99 if you miss the buttons

[tepples]

when you want quick and responsive interaction, you can't go past physical buttons.

Yes, but you can download games using the App Store, and have a 10" screen to play them... oh, and games cost $.99

How are games worth even $0.99 if you're missing the on-screen buttons all the time because you can't even feel where they are relative to your thumbs? Consoles with a flat keypad are probably part of why the market crashed in 1983.

Re:Not even worth $0.99 if you miss the buttons

[CronoCloud]

Consoles with a flat keypad are probably part of why the market crashed in 1983.

No it wasn't. The crash of 83-84 was simply do to everyone and their dog thinking they could make a video game for the 2600 given a single programmer and a month and thinking the game would be any good. Then customers getting burned by too many crap shovelware games and not buying.

How do platformers work on touch screens?

[tepples]

a lot of companies are having success releasing retro games for portables.

How does that work in cases of retro games with more twitch play, which are the polar opposite of the more touch-friendly RPGs you mentioned? When you're directly controlling a character, such as in a platformer, you have to be able to hit the right on-screen button blind, and touch screens have historically been bad at that because they have no bumps.

the casual gamer is moving in droves to cell phones, largely because for them its one less thing to carry.

But do they buy one cell phone over another because of available games or because of another factor? I bought my dumbphone over a smartphone because smartphone plans cost $35 per month while mine costs $5 per month. It's cheaper to carry more devices.

Re:How do platformers work on touch screens?

[CronoCloud]

But do they buy one cell phone over another because of available games or because of another factor?

Almost always another factor, games are a bonus, not the function of the device.

I bought my dumbphone over a smartphone because smartphone plans cost $35 per month while mine costs $5 per month. It's cheaper to carry more devices.

Yes, but you are not the "average person".and don't realize how much of an outlier you are.

Re:How do platformers work on touch screens?

[del_diablo]

How does that work in cases of retro games with more twitch play, which are the polar opposite of the more touch-friendly RPGs you mentioned? When you're directly controlling a character, such as in a platformer, you have to be able to hit the right on-screen button blind, and touch screens have historically been bad at that because they have no bumps.

You still always position your fingers roughly correctly to the gamepad you are using regardless, so its not a issue. The largest issues I have seen is combination of a dpad requirement with a tablet with a not soo good capacitive touch screen(required exessive amounts of touching), which also had this really large amount of input lag. If the game you are emulating has analog stick emulation, or supports octagonal movement: It will work just fine.
Games like most N64 games will work like a dream, due the analog stick. Then again, the biggest problem is the input lag, which frankly overshades all issues the touch screen bring. You still feel that you hit the screen, if buts lagging behind enough so that you might move one extra tiler per movement attempt.

Re:How do platformers work on touch screens?

[tepples]

You still always position your fingers roughly correctly to the gamepad you are using regardless, so its not a issue.

I can see how it'd work for a game that requires only two buttons, like pinball: left button at bottom left and right button at bottom right. The problem comes when more than one button is assigned to each thumb. If I need to quickly slide my left thumb from up to right, how can I be sure where right is? If I have a jump button and two attack buttons under the right thumb, or I have punch, kick, and block, how can I make sure I hit the right one?

You still feel that you hit the screen

But I can't tell whether I hit the on-screen button or the inactive area around the on-screen button.

Re:How do platformers work on touch screens?

[antifoidulus]

Because if it means not having to buy and carry an extra device a certain segment of the population will put up with less than perfect controls? I said that smartphone/tablets aren't perfect replacements for consoles, but for a certain(probably large) segment of the population the tradeoff is worthwhile. If all I want to do is play pac-man I can get a faithful port on the vita or 3ds, but that means I have to not only purchase pac-man but also the device to play it on. Before smartphones became common place people were willing to do this because it was realistically the only way to get your pac-man fix on the go, but that is no longer the case. If it comes down to paying $200 to play perfect pac-man or $10 to play "good-enough" pac-man, do you really think that many people are going to opt for the former?

Back-compat

[tepples]

Nintendo can't add anything to it that wasn't in the original device without breaking backwards compatibility.

I beg to differ. Nintendo added color and extra RAM to the Game Boy Color, yet it played Game Boy games. Nintendo added a bigger screen, a 32-bit CPU, SNES-style PPU, and more RAM to the Game Boy Advance, yet it played Game Boy and Game Boy Color games. Nintendo enlarged the screen, added a second, and added more buttons to the Nintendo DS, yet it played Game Boy Advance games. Nintendo added more RAM and a USB/Bluetooth chip to the Wii, yet it played GameCube games. Nintendo added the first Circle Pad to the 3DS and enlarged the screens again, yet it played DS games.

Re:Back-compat

[DeanCubed]

You missed the point entirely. Adding a second Circle Pad would break compatibility with CURRENT 3DS games. Developers would be split, unsure whether to make games with both sticks in mind, or just the one stick that most people have. The 3DS WILL NEVER GET ANOTHER ANALOG STICK AS STANDARD. The Pro add-on is specifically for a select few games, and that is all. It comes packaged with some of those games.

Not to mention the fact that the Circle Pad Pro add-on doesn't even FIT onto the 3DS XL.

The 3DS XL is NOT the next generation of portables. Comparing it to the transition from DS to 3DS or GBC to GBA is comparing apples to spaceships.

Re:Back-compat

[Anonymous Coward]

You missed the point entirely. Adding a second Circle Pad would break compatibility with CURRENT 3DS games.

No it wouldn't, it would a dead controller, durrr!

Not all genres work on a slate

[tepples]

Can't you see that the future of portable gaming is on slate devices that are not made exclusively for gaming?

Platformers, fighting games, and games in other genres where players need to press buttons blind work poorly on a slate. Do you claim that those genres are dead?

Re:Not all genres work on a slate

[windcask]

That's a peripheral problem, not a device problem. How hard could it be to affix a traditional-style controller to the bottom or back of a slate and play that way?

Nintendo Fail

[Lumpy]

My wife loved her DS, but since an ipad came into her life she has not touched it. I think that Nintendo really needs to knock it out of the park if they think they will survive in today's gaming world.

Re:Nintendo Fail

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife loved her DS, but since an ipad came into her life she has not touched it. I think that Nintendo really needs to knock it out of the park if they think they will survive in today's gaming world.

Well, it doesn't help that there are not many DS games being produced nowdays, don't you think?

It was cute....

[MistrBlank]

when Nintendo fixed the Game Boy Advance by releasing the SP. Then they immediately jumped the shark and now every game system they release has 15 (exaggerating for emphasis) revisions before the next console. I haven't bought a Nintento portable since the SP if that's any indication of how I feel on the situation.

Sony can go fuck themselves too, but at least they finally put a second stick on their portable.

great platform, no games

[Anonymous Coward]

I love the 3ds, as an owner of at least 6 handhelds. By far, the biggest issue for me has been the lack of content. I love that i can watch Netflix on it, that I can use WPA2, and that I can display games at high resolution when 3d is off. However, every time ilI go to the store looking for games, I only find the same few launch games plus a couple other titles.

The 3ds lacks that killer game. I own 3 3ds games (2 I bought, one i found on the ground), yet i still end up playing mostly DS games on it.

Where is Golden Sun, or an installment of FF/tactics, and why can't we get Monstet Hunter on it like the Japan version has?

I'll wait

[Anonymous Coward]

I continue to be interested in the 3DS, just not enough to pay 170 or 200$ for one. Nintendo's tendency to overhaul their hardware doesn't help my indecisiveness seeing how I got burned on the original GBA with it's lack of backlighting only for them to release the smaller lighted version not too much later. Given that I'll wait until they ship an actually finished 3DS XL with two analog pads for 150$.

Average-ism

[tepples]

If only the "average person" needed catered to, there would be no need for product differentiation.

Re:Um, New Super what?

[CastrTroy]

Which is one reason I'm actually interested in Microsoft Surface. Apparently it's going to have a USB port and support XBox controllers. Could open up a whole new realm of mobile gaming. All these tablets and phones support bluetooth, so it would be trivial to have a bluetooth gamepad. I don't know why there isn't more support for a simple controller that snaps onto your phone that allows you to play games. I know there's a couple that exist, but they seem to be expensive, and none of them have really gained much traction.

No cradle or adapter

[BenoitRen]

The article doesn't mention that the 3DS XL won't have a cradle or AC adaptor included. The original 3DS did come with both of those. While the 3DS AC adaptor is compatble, customers who didn't buy the 3DS won't have any means to charge the 3DS XL's battery. This is probably a move to reap profits from sales of separate AC adaptors.

This 'oversight' reminds me of the time when Nintendo 'forgot' the headphone jack on their Game Boy Advance SP. You had to buy a separate cable that plugged into the power jack if you wanted to use headphones with the system, which also meant that you couldn't play it with headphones on while it was connected a power outlet.

Besting DS Sales is Lukewarm?

[Kagato]

I haven't owned a Gameboy since the GBA but the I keep hearing this assertion that the sales of the 3DS are weak. Out of the gate the Nintendo DS (which is thought to be extremely popular) had 14 Million sales year one. The 3DS did 17 million in sales the first year. Now I only went to public school, but I was taught 17 million is greater than 14 million.

Re:Besting DS Sales is Lukewarm?

[silas_moeckel]

They are very popular in the k-8 school segment school buses have Mario cart running daily.

Re:Besting DS Sales is Lukewarm?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, that just means that Nintendo is DOOMED, like it has been for the last 15 years. :S

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[hkmwbz]

3D Mario is not the same as 2D Mario. You will notice that 2D Mario vastly outsells anything in 3D. Some will argue that 3D Mario isn't even real Mario.

Games that require an accessory

[tepples]

But are these $62 iControlPad things widespread among people who regularly game on their iOS and Android devices, or do only "extreme outliers" (as CronoCloud likes to put them) own them? Developers aren't going to want to design a game that plays best with them until they're widespread; instead they'll stick to PCs and consoles for button-genre games and stick to positional-input-genre games on phones. Games that require a hardware upgrade typically haven't sold well unless the hardware upgrade came with the game (e.g. the DDR or Guitar Hero controller), but that's only possible at retail, not on an online app store.

Re:Games that require an accessory

[h4rr4r]

I have no idea how normal they are.

Selling hardware with an app store seems pretty easy. Amazon could easily meet that need.

Correlation, so what's the causation?

[tepples]

most games playable on a handheld don't require the ultrafast reflexes necessary for a full console game

We have a correlation here. And where there's correlation between two things A and B, there are four possibilities for causation: A causes B, B causes A, C causes A and B, or the two are independent. So which of these is most likely?

• A. The rise of gaming devices lacking buttons has caused developers to make non-twitch games.
• B. Consumer preference for non-twitch games has caused developers to target phones and handheld tablets.
• C. Something else has caused both the lack of buttons and the non-twitch games.
• D. The rise of smartphones and non-twitch games happened at the same time by coincidence.

Also the controls of a console aren't really that great either when compared to something like the humble mouse.

How would you play, say, Super Mario with a mouse?

Re:Correlation, so what's the causation?

[Anonymous Coward]

You need a gamepad to play something like Megaman.
You need a keyboard and mouse to play something like Quake.
You need a steering wheel and pedals to play something like Riiiiiiiidge Raceeeeeeeeer!
You need analog sticks.... well, no you don't. Ever.

Re:Correlation, so what's the causation?

[k(wi)r(kipedia)]

How about:

• E. A feedback loop (the way some long-lasting wars are started and continue even when the initial causes have been forgotten by the combatants)

How to sell such a bundle

[tepples]

How hard could it be to affix a traditional-style controller to the bottom or back of a slate and play that way?

For one thing, you'd have to convince everyone who buys your game to shell out $62 for an iControlPad. Games that come with their own controller are feasible on PCs and consoles because the bundle can be sold at retail. Furthermore, people who buy games at retail are used to paying upwards of $40 for game and controller bundles such as DDR, Guitar Hero, and Wii Fit. Games for current slate devices, on the other hand, are sold online, and I haven't seen any provision in the App Store or Google Play Store to specify that everyone who buys a particular game is eligible for one controller to be shipped to the payment method's billing address.

Re:How to sell such a bundle

[windcask]

Good points, but you're assuming that each game is only going to be handled by one controller, such as the specialty games you've listed above. Most people who play the money-makers such as FPSes will do fine with a simple dual-axis controller that can be bundled or purchased separately at retail with the tablet itself, if one has the foresight to know that the tablet will be used for such games. It's just a matter of establishing a standard API for controller buttons and analog sticks.

People who bought this also bought

[tepples]

Amazon could easily meet that need.

Yes, Amazon could solve this by adding peripherals to an "people who bought this also bought" list for each application, much as it does with its shippable goods business. So how should developers convince Amazon to do so?

Re:People who bought this also bought

[h4rr4r]

Perhaps by sending an email.

Perfection is the enemy of the good, is a lesson you never seem to have learned. Sometimes a compromise, like not having the ideal control scheme or missing some football games, is better than the alternative of buying two devices or paying for cable.

Re:People who bought this also bought

[tepples]

Perfection is the enemy of the good, is a lesson you never seem to have learned.

I'm trying to fix problems at the architecture stage, which is cheaper than fixing them after the product has shipped. I was under the impression that discovering and implementing best practices early was better than doing so late. I ask on Slashdot because I've found it somewhat difficult to come up with the correct keywords when trying to search for best practices in a given field on Google. Where should I be asking instead?

Re:People who bought this also bought

[h4rr4r]

I am saying we are beyond that stage. These products have already shipped.

Re:Um, New Super what?

[jp10558]

The need for a real gaming controller (and supporting a device I never need to jailbreak) drove me to an OpenPandora... Not current AAA - mostly retro-gaming, but many many fun games I never got to play before.

Maybe it's just my Droid III (which has enough problems I have to admit) or my cheap chinese knock off tablets I've used, but touch screen gaming is very difficult for me exactly because I have to keep looking at the controls vs what's happening in the game... I couldn't play Chrono Trigger on my phone or tablet, but can with the real controllers on the OP...

That said, pricing is a killer on it. Though so is the rumored pricing on the Surface...

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[P-niiice]

A lot of these posts are being posted by AC's and being modded as flamebait. But the essence of the posts are a valid concern. Mario games are just about the last games I ever want to play now. Actually, I want nothing with most multiple-rehash Nintendo franchises, xbox franchises, or Sony Franchises.
A lot of us are tired of rehashes, and Nintendo is the worst offender...or maybe tied with Capcom for that crown.

Re:Um, New Super what?

[CastrTroy]

Yeah, you can get Chinese PSP clones (in outside appearance only) that support emulators and will run anything from NES games all the way up to PSone games. And they only cost $40. I've been seriously considering getting one for this winter when I'll be stuck on public transit again. I have a pretty good cell phone, but gaming on it just frankly sucks. Not that I'm disappointed. I didn't buy it for gaming. However, it's just amazing how many people use them for gaming. It's almost as if they've never played on a dedicated device, or it's been so long, that they forgot how much better the experience is.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[scot4875]

A lot of us are tired of rehashes

So don't play them and don't whine about flamebait being modded flamebait.

Also, pray tell, which FPS developer makes the innovative breaths of fresh air that you occupy your time with, eh?

--Jeremy

The time to get a 3DS was August 2011

[Anonymous Coward]

Right before the Ambassador games deal was done, but after most stores already marked the price down to 170. Best of both worlds.

But 3DS XL? Already? No thanks. That huge screen is going to make already meh-looking games even worse, and the fact that they didn't incorporate the second Circle Pad just screams ripoff.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[VGPowerlord]

Also, pray tell, which FPS developer makes the innovative breaths of fresh air that you occupy your time with, eh?

Valve.

Then again, I've been playing the same online FPS for 5 years, but it's still getting new updates including one scheduled for later this week with the Pyromaniac update and the associated Meet the Pyro video.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[hackula]

An edgy Mario would be too disgusting for most markets. Can you imagine a 60 year old midget plumber-- who has subsisted on nothing but magic mushrooms laced with human growth hormone for decades-- stalking down a nasty old stripper named "Princess Peach", as he and his brother go on a quest to see who can curb stomp the most endangered sea turtles and who can accumulate the most concussions by brutally breaking bricks with their shattered skulls over and over and over again. We can leave the gritty reimagining to 007 or MGS; let's keep mario safely in cartoony goofy form where he belongs.

What?

[edittard]

it's launching into a very different market than what the original DS XL faced in 2009.

Is Ernie Wise submitting stories now?

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[P-niiice]

I don't play FPS's.
Actually, id play an FPS over another rehash device from Nintendo with its best game being more old, tired franchises.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[P-niiice]

Yes, Valve. Also, I did play the Darkness II which was good. I also thoroughly enjoyed Borderlands.

1990s was forerunner of current state, not utopia

[Dogtanian]

There IS something capturing about the games of 1990 era. Maybe it's that computers were sufficiently advanced, but not too powerful, which set just the right artistic bounds.

I disagree; I think the reason is that in the 90s, nobody was trying to industrialize game creation, or at least they didn't figure they'd gotten it right. A lot of the shining examples from back then were people that were self-motivated, self-organized, and given some free reign by publishers.

Although you disagree with the GP, who I disagreed with elsewhere, I'm not sure I agree with this either!

For a start, you paint the 90s as the era when gaming was much freer from corporate influence and negativity than it is today. But wasn't that much *more* the case during the early 80s (and even late 70s)?

In fact I'd argue that the 90s (and even the 16-bit, late-80s era) was when things had already moved quite far from the supposed indie utopia you describe and were showing the seeds of today's industry. Wasn't it the early 90s when EA started changing from a relatively well-respected publisher (during the 80s) into the sequel-driven, corporate hate-figure that it is today, starting with the release of endless Madden sequels, then in the mid-90s starting the new-game-every-year licensed FIFA series?

And by the early 90s, the "prodigy indie developer working from his bedroom" phenomenon of the early 80s was already mostly part of a bygone era, as the increasing standards and complexity of games (and the machines they ran on) made this impossible.

In short, I think you're possibly letting nostalgia cloud *your* judgement too- did you also start gaming in the 90s? If that era wasn't as bad as today in terms of corporatisation, it's more just a matter of degree, I suspect.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[Dogtanian]

A lot of us are tired of rehashes

So don't play them and don't whine about flamebait being modded flamebait.

Is this the evergreen fanboy whine of "if you don't like it, don't play/listen to/watch it, and don't criticise" again? (Close relative of "you don't have to buy it, so don't criticise").

Who said that he *was* playing them? Who said that he wasn't entitled to express his opinion? The fact that you don't like it doesn't make it "flamebait".

(Note; this post doesn't even imply that I agree with the OP's opinion, or even that I care about what he was discussing, merely that he's quite entitled to say it).

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[interkin3tic]

Mario games are just about the last games I ever want to play now.

Gee, I can't believe Nintendo hasn't stopped making mario games then.

A lot of us are tired of rehashes, and Nintendo is the worst offender...or maybe tied with Capcom for that crown.

To me, "Rehash" means the same thing over and over again. That's call of duty, which is essentially the same run, gun, cutscene, repeat, or multiplayer and they've released 9 of them. Many more if you count DLC and handheld/console versions.

New super mario bros is not a rehash of super mario galaxy. Even the handheld Mario 3D land is not a rehash of galaxy.

Child labor laws

[tepples]

I don't see how saying smartphones are for people who can pay a smartphone month bill is related to saying that the 3DS a system for children.

I think the reasoning behind it has something to do with child labor laws that prohibit children from working, even during summer vacation, to earn the money to pay a smartphone's monthly bill.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[P-niiice]

To people objectively looking at consoles, a rehash could very well be one of many retreads of an old gaming franchise to which very little of note has been added. Mario is a prime example. Call of Duty is definitely one in my opinion but at least the set pieces are different, and there is multiplayer - Ninterndo can't even manage that.

It really doesn't matter. New kids are born, parents will buy Nintendo consoles, augmented by true Nintendo adult fans - and Nintendo will make money and never truly up their game until they learn a lesson in the marketplace.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[interkin3tic]

If you're suggesting mario games don't add anything new, you clearly haven't played them. At a minimum, you haven't played new super mario bros for the wii if you're saying they don't have multiplayer. They are platformers: multiplayer doesn't make sense for super mario galaxy.

I'm also not clear how set pieces being different constitutes a major change. That's like saying "The levels change between mario games!" I'm not saying they're exactly the same in call of duty, but the mario franchise goes from 2D to 3D for example. Even were call of duty to release an entire game in which you were operating a tank the whole time, that would not be as fundamental a change as the differences between super mario galaxy and new super mario bros.

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

A lot of us are tired of rehashes, and Nintendo is the worst offender...or maybe tied with Capcom for that crown.

How is Nintendo the worst offender? Are you seriously going to put New Mario Brothers up against Super Mario Galaxy and say that's a bigger offense than the three thousand "you're a soldier running around with a gun to watch cut-scenes" games out on the market today?

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[newsdee]

Kind of like this?

Or rather like this?

Re:Um, New Super Mario? Yes it is "new"!

[Anonymous Coward]

Who said that he has played the games he shits on either? Same main characters, different game != rehash.

Is it still region locked? Then still no sale

[Anonymous Coward]

Not much more to say than that - I will not pay for a 'portable' device that I can't practically take with me on the go.