Google Releases Android 4.1 Source Code

Unlike previous releases, where months passed between Google announcing a new version and the code being released, Google has made good on their promise to release the source code to Jelly Bean in record time. Unfortunately, the gitweb instance on kernel.org is still down so you'll have to download the entire thing to take a peek. Hopefully the Cyanogenmod team will find time to start on a community enhanced version soon.

Comments

Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Daetrin]

Is an option to add back the settings/menu button. I like having the settings always in a known and easy to reach place rather than depending on the app author to place it someplace convenient. And i wouldn't mind having the search button back either. Really the bottom button bar ought to be much more configurable than it is.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[oakgrove]

CM9 has that option so I would imagine CM10 will have it as well. You can also add a persistent Search button on the bottom if that's your thing. Not that you'll need it with the up gesture on Jelly Bean for Google Now.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Daetrin]

Thanks! That's good to know. I haven't actually experimented much with Cyanogen yet because i've never felt to need to install it on my Nexus One. (I'm trying to hold out until the rumored five new Nexus phones this fall.) But i'm definitely going to be looking into it once i get my Nexus 7.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[ozmanjusri]

Just use one of the many available widgets.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[viperidaenz]

I use cm7 on a defy and the menu button and search button work as expected.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[AbRASiON]

MOD THIS GUY TO THE 'N TOP.
TO.THE.TOP!

I've been ranting about this for months, it's difficult to put into words my thoughts on this without sounding like a raving lunatic or a badly broken record.
I am _sick_ of companies making stupid decisions with their user interfaces.

Why on EARTH would we want a nice, consistent location for a button to now become a random location on the screen? and what makes them think three odd little dots represents 'settings' or 'menu' clearly? WHAT?

I do not exaggerate when I say one of the PRIMARY reasons I switched from Apple to Android was the complete and utter logic of having nice, consistent buttons for routine functions. Back, menu, home seem logical to me. I also NEVER, EVER use the multi-task button, why would I? The OS handles it all perfectly for me, when I hit home it minimises the application (so to speak) and when I re-open the application, it's where I wanted it. Furthermore, holding down the home key (Samsung) seems logical to multi-tasking to me, not a dedicated button.

I am extremely, extremely baffled and pissed off at this completely and utterly idiotic move and it's also one of the primary reasons I got the Galaxy S3, possibly one of the last Android phones with a logical button scheme.
Sadly, I'm only one person whining about this but by god does the Google engineering group who decided on this change need a mighty fucking slap with the logic bat.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Daetrin]

From what i understand CM7 was based on 2.3 Gingerbread. The disappearing menu/settings button was only introduced in 3.0 Honeycomb and carried over to 4.0 ICS and 4.1 Jelly Bean.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[geminidomino]

It's not just companies. Even FOSS projects are doing it.
I ran GIMP 2.8 for a whole 20 minutes before I uninstalled and put 2.6 back.

It's like there's some sort of computer programmer virus that makes you make idiotic un-usability decisions going around (pretty sure Ubuntu was patient zero)

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Auroch]

Thanks! That's good to know. I haven't actually experimented much with Cyanogen yet because i've never felt to need to install it on my Nexus One. (I'm trying to hold out until the rumored five new Nexus phones this fall.) But i'm definitely going to be looking into it once i get my Nexus 7.

You're missing out. Using vanilla android is THAT much better than most skinned versions, and using Cyanogen is THAT much better than vanilla. It's essentially ALL the options and customization you didn't realize you needed, but once you've got it, you'll never go back to vanilla.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Auroch]

MOD THIS GUY TO THE 'N TOP. TO.THE.TOP!

I've been ranting about this for months, it's difficult to put into words my thoughts on this without sounding like a raving lunatic or a badly broken record. I am _sick_ of companies making stupid decisions with their user interfaces.

Why on EARTH would we want a nice, consistent location for a button to now become a random location on the screen? and what makes them think three odd little dots represents 'settings' or 'menu' clearly? WHAT?

I do not exaggerate when I say one of the PRIMARY reasons I switched from Apple to Android was the complete and utter logic of having nice, consistent buttons for routine functions. Back, menu, home seem logical to me. I also NEVER, EVER use the multi-task button, why would I? The OS handles it all perfectly for me, when I hit home it minimises the application (so to speak) and when I re-open the application, it's where I wanted it. Furthermore, holding down the home key (Samsung) seems logical to multi-tasking to me, not a dedicated button.

I am extremely, extremely baffled and pissed off at this completely and utterly idiotic move and it's also one of the primary reasons I got the Galaxy S3, possibly one of the last Android phones with a logical button scheme. Sadly, I'm only one person whining about this but by god does the Google engineering group who decided on this change need a mighty fucking slap with the logic bat.

... or install CyanogenMod and customize your settings yourself, and stop whining.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

Number one thing i want in CM. Is for them to stop overlooking legacy devices like the nexus one.
That and please add indications for status for SIP accounts!

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

Number one thing i want in CM. Is for them to stop overlooking legacy devices like the nexus one.
That and please add indications for status for SIP accounts!!

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Daetrin]

Well to be fair, CM9 has apparently only been out for a couple weeks, and not everyone is aware of it (well, i wasn't at least till just now.)

And even so, if you honestly feel that Google is going in the wrong direction with some aspect of the UI there's nothing wrong with speaking up about it instead of just saying "Well i've got what i want thanks to CyanogenMod and all the less technical users who are stuck with whatever Google decides can go suck it."

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[aztracker1]

I thought the "Nexus" line was vanilla... slightly locked, but not so much.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[AbRASiON]

Why the (more expletives) should I damn well have to move to a non stock ROM just because of a foolish decision by Google?

This move is going to frustrate 'normal' users who don't know how to mod and regardless if there's a way round it with Cyanogen, it's still a completely illogical decision.

Ridiculous.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

Your points are valid from your perspective...

My perspective, on the other hand:

The multitasking button has become probably my most used, and I'm happy they made a dedicated button for it. Next most used is Home, and that's increased with Jelly Bean making long-press home bring up Google Now with a swipe up (which actually makes more sense to me than that being multitasking). Back is used enough as well, of course. I almost never use the menu button on the bottom any more, though. The only apps that I find any use for that is... well... Facebook, but I've given up on even dealing with the Facebook app... and... honestly, I'm perfectly happy without the menu or the search buttons dedicated on the bottom. It took a little getting used to, but I don't miss those buttons at all any more...

Essentially, the new button configuration works better for me than the old button configurations ever did. I can understand it being more of a hassle for some people. That's essentially Google's thing though: the phone manufacturers can put whatever buttons they want on there and leave whatever buttons they don't off (hence CM9 allows you to fill the damn thing up with all 5 if you really want). The manufacturers are probably going to go to the ones that seem the most logical based on potential sales to put on there. Samsung thought it made sense to keep the menu button that people like yourself are so used to, so they did. And there you have it, you proved them right and bought the S3 for that reason. Maybe they'll do that with the S4 and beyond, and you can still keep your menu button and "logical button scheme". I'll stick to the new scheme that makes more sense to me. We'll both be happy (and I understand that's a big "if they go that way...").

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[TheInternetGuy]

It's essentially ALL the options and customization you didn't realize you needed, but once you've got it, you'll never go back to vanilla.

But will my camera work?

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

It's on the top-right of the notificaton pull-down (at least in 4.0).

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. Just to somehow show they are different and innovative. That's the way of the non Apple world. Say what you want about Apple. They understand intuitive UI. There is more to GUI than eye candy. LIttle tip for the green screen engineers.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[oakgrove]

That depends on your device. Get an officially supported by AOSP device like the Nexus or WiFi Xoom and you're golden. Otherwise you takes your chances.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[bemymonkey]

Agree about the menu button, disagree about the multi tasking button. It's absolutely necessary if you want to move from one app to another _without_ going to your home screen, opening the app drawer and then scrolling to the other app. If you need to switch back and forth a few times, you'll be pulling your hair out by the time you're done...

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[AbRASiON]

I'm fine with both but very confused that multi-tasking got a dedicated button but menu didn't - it seems so completely and utterly backwards to me.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

Why the (more expletives) should I damn well have to move to a non stock ROM just because of a foolish decision by Google?

Because it makes a lot more sense than switching to Apple. If you want to say it's on principal and all, that's fine, except Apple has done many things way more retarded than this.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[bemymonkey]

If I remember correctly, the issue was that app developers were hiding vital functions behind the menu button, and there was no way to know whether the menu button actually worked on certain screens. Take the Android WiFi settings as a prime example - to enter the advanced WiFi settings, you had to press Menu and then Advanced, even though there was no indication to the user, and there is no menu as such (i.e. the menu button does nothing) in any of the other Android settings dialogs - how is the user supposed to know that he can access a whole other dialog by pressing Menu and hitting "Advanced"? The only way to find out (unless someone tells you) is to go through every single screen of a new app and press the menu button on each one, to see if a different menu pops up somewhere - and this really was the case on MANY Android apps... you'd get access to an entirely different menu from screen A than from screen B, and certain settings would only be available by pressing menu when already in the settings dialog - very confusing for end users.

I do agree that they should have kept the menu button in the same place though. Maybe just make the backlight (on devices where applicable) only light up when there's actually a menu available... and a better icon would have been nice... but tbh - I don't think I could have thought up a better one...

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

It's absolutely necessary if you want to move from one app to another _without_ going to your home screen, opening the app drawer and then scrolling to the other app.

Eh? Just long-press the Home button and the Task Switcher appears. Click the icon for the active app to which you wish to switch.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[bemymonkey]

Task switcher != Recently opened apps

They are fundamentally different, and recently opened apps was broken in that some apps (like GMail) didn't show up unless they were opened directly from the home screen - if you opened GMail by clicking on a new mail notification, it wouldn't show up in recently opened apps. This was fixed when they switched to the task switcher...

No matter which method you prefer though - don't you think the function is important enough to deserve a dedicated button? I know I do...

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[amRadioHed]

They are not fundamentally different at all. They both serve the exact same function. The fact that some apps didn't show up correctly under recently opened apps is not a fundamental difference, it's a bug. There are apps under ICS that don't show up under the task switcher too, so it's not even a bug that's entirely gone..

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[bemymonkey]

Actually, there's a big difference. One shows running tasks and allows you to open or close ("dismiss") them. The other just shows you which apps you've most recently launched... makes a big difference for the way I use Android.

Which apps don't show up in the ICS task switcher? I haven't noticed any so far :)

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[humanrev]

Could you be more specific? Is it because of the (optional) single-window mode in 2.8? The only reason I can stand to use GIMP now is BECAUSE of the single-window mode, but there's no reason to flame given it's still optional, and not even the default.

Apart from that 2.8 seems to only have improvements and greater functionality from what I've seen, but I'd be interested to read what it has which got under your skin so I can either sympathize or deride you. :)

P.S. Agreed with Ubuntu - Mint is the current distro of choice if I have to use Linux.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

In addition to your point and against the poster to which you responded:

The multitasking button is not a "task switcher" necessarily, by thoughts used here. It is STILL just the "recently opened apps". It just grabs a screenshot of each recently opened app and shows potentially more than the old one did. Which looks flashier, and looks like it would be more of a "task switcher". In a sense it is. But that's misunderstanding the way Android works. In Android, you shouldn't necessarily close any apps. Even swiping them off the list on the multitasking button screen doesn't close the app, actually. That app may still be running in the background just the same. You are switching the apps, but you're switching the apps in the exact same way that you did with the "recently opened apps" from older Android. If you really want to be true, technically it's a "task switcher" and "recently opened apps" hybrid, in that it's the list of the recently opened apps, which most likely will also act as a task switcher. And this has always been the case with Android since long pressing home brought up the recently opened apps list.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

The main thing I can see irritating people is Gimp deciding to go the photoshop way of saving--"Save/Save as" only work on XCF. For any other format you need to use "Export..." or "Overwrite". Which, eh, it was kind of annoying to me, but the improved brush dynamics mean I'm never looking back.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[SurfaceMount]

I am _sick_ of companies making stupid decisions with their user interfaces. Why on EARTH would we want a nice, consistent location for a button to now become a random location on the screen?

Apple probably has a patent for "buttons in a consistent location on a device with round corners" so Android had to remove that feature to avoid spending years in court.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[0100010001010011]

In previous versions I would agree. I had to install Cyanogenmod 7 on my Optimus V to make it half useable. However with ICS on my ASUS TF300 I haven't felt the desire, ASUS has done a very good job of customizing ICS for their tablet and everything I could think I want is there. Including being able to root it without any voodoo. I think it depends entirely on the OEM.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[geminidomino]

The save garbage was one of the two things that got on my nerves very quickly.

The new brushes were the second. Since I had opened it up to do something with the smear tool, I ran into it headlong from the get-go.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Intropy]

Ah, Poe's law.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

Where is this option?

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[friesandgravy]

how are you finding chrome on stock asus ICS? i'm finding it laggy a bit, and crashes at least once a session...

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[richy freeway]

You do realise that CM isn't the only game in town developing ROMs? I don't know why everyone goes on about CM as if they're the greatest thing in the ROM creation world. I personally can't stand their ROMs. I'm currently running Nikez ICS on my original Desire, very nice it is too.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Tapewolf]

Number one thing i want in CM. Is for them to stop overlooking legacy devices like the nexus one.

If that's the G1, the base code is too bloaty and slow to run nicely on the hardware now. The G1 has limited RAM and flash space, sadly and there's a limit to how much you can optimise someone else's code like that.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[karolbe]

Jean-Baptiste Queru: "Nexus S works much better with AOSP: the camera works, GPS works, NFC works, and those are broken on AOSP builds for Galaxy Nexus." More here: https://plus.google.com/u/0/112218872649456413744/posts/QkKumgFm6pm

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[RoboJ1M]

Yes! Bluetooth? Maybe not so much.
Actually I'm just bitter because A2DP is lousy on CM7 with HTC Desire. :'(

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[thegarbz]

It's not just companies. Even FOSS projects are doing it.

Doing what, experimenting with changes in new major versions that may give them a boost in popularity as they introduce changes to usability which make the product easier to use?

You've stated your opinion, now here's mine. GIMP 2.8 is usable, previous versions were a window management nightmare. Especially on dual monitors with tool palates disappearing and generally not acting like any other single application on my system. I like it. I like it a lot. Others seem to like it too. This is also the first version of GIMP I consider recommending to other less ... patient computer users.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[IamTheRealMike]

Yes, it's exactly for that reason. The fact that the dots appear to wander randomly around the screen is irritating for sure, but is more a transitional period. They appear in the bottom bar if the app is not set to "target" the latest OS version. They appear in the top bar if the app has been ported to use the ICS/Honeycomb UI classes, and irritatingly, they can appear in BOTH places if the app is using a backport of the ActionBar class and has not set their API target version correctly. I've been told that there are some odd issues that can occur when you target the latest SDK, but I don't know if that's really true. Anyway, it's a bit of a mess, but as the backport libraries get improved and people work through the complexities of supporting both ICS+ and Gingerbread the dots will get more consistent with time, either appearing in the bottom bar for older apps that expect a menu button, or typically in the top right for newer apps that use an action bar.

Having said all that, settings/menu buttons and even the back button are pretty inconsistent on iOS too, so it's not like this is an achilles heel or anything.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[MrDoh!]

Agreed. As is, the back button makes sense, (and even better when it changes to shrink keyboard, it worked like that before, but it's good the UI shows it clearer now). A standardised location to move back, and if you really want to override it, well, there's ways to handle that in your own app (and have a 'are you sure' on the final back to close, with holding it down being a task kill override). The task switch functionality is duplicated from holding the home button down, so... why is there another button needed? Have it shown as the tooltips the very first time you log into Android, then don't worry about it. Press once, back to home. Press and hold, taskswitch menu. So... What does the taskswitcher need to be there for? I'd prefer this to be optional. Some settings to control the functionality/visibility of these buttons. I'd drop the taskswitcher, and have the menu button replace it.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[geminidomino]

Doing what, experimenting with changes in new major versions that may give them a boost in popularity as they introduce changes to usability which make the product easier to use?

No. Experimenting and then responding to users who say that the changes do NOT make it easier to use as if they were all GNOME developers.

  i.e. "Shut up, we know better than you do, and we don't care if you've been using it for 14 years, you should be using something else. Our target market are the people too dumb to pay attention to what they're doing." (Paraphrased from the actual response to criticism of the new Save/Export/Overwrite mess, but only slightly).

I'm glad you like the new windowing. Considering I never mentioned it or even got the chance to mess with it, I'm not sure why you bring it up as if it's a counter to anything I said. At least 2.6 is usable, even if it does mean living with the crappy multi-window layout.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

Even swiping them off the list on the multitasking button screen doesn't close the app, actually

Yes it does. It doesn't kill the app, but it seems to ask the app to close, the app may or may not close, if you test this functionality with various apps you find that some apps (not all) after being closed in this manner open up fresh rather than going back to their last opened state.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[thegarbz]

Considering I never mentioned it or even got the chance to mess with it, I'm not sure why you bring it up as if it's a counter to anything I said.

Given you're using GIMP as an example in a thread almost entirely focused on GUI elements, saying you don't like something about GIMP, and the most controversial feature of the new GIMP is it's GUI changes, maybe you should clarify next time ;-)

But the point is still the same. Programmers don't intentionally try to drive use of their programs into the ground. If they are targeting dumb users there's a good chance that there's more potential to expand use in the dumb users category than the 14 years of experience category. Same argument for the Office ribbon. It goes against the grain, but for people who haven't used computers for 10 years they learn it quite quickly, and for people who have it's quite an easy concept to adapt. But hey let's demand menus for the next 50 years and not experiment with potential game changing creations.

I wonder how we ever progressed beyond the CLI, but from what I can see there CLI has about as many hardcore fanatics as the Android menu button who insist the way they learnt is the best and only way.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[cyber-vandal]

Change has to have advantages that outweigh the inconvenience of the change. The ribbon doesn't have those advantages for existing users who have had to completely relearn a large part of their workflow for no improvement in productivity and with the loss of screen space.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Ash Vince]

Could you be more specific? Is it because of the (optional) single-window mode in 2.8? The only reason I can stand to use GIMP now is BECAUSE of the single-window mode, but there's no reason to flame given it's still optional, and not even the default.

Whereas I think that was the best feature they added the recent version. I think the single window mode is Gimp trying to make a grab for Photoshops market.

When it comes to usability these things are very subjective, what one person thinks is an improvement another thinks is an annoyance. But then you also have some people who just whine whenever anything changes without giving the changes a chance but these people will always deny that is the case and rationalise their hatred somehow anyway.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

They tried to get CM9 on there, and it was mostly working but they couldn't get it to pass the Android Compatibility Test Suite, so they aren't releasing it. They don't want their name attached to something that doesn't work right.

If you want it anyway, there's a thread on xda-developers where you can download a version named "BCM" that someone else is maintaining.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Miamicanes]

> I don't know why everyone goes on about CM as if they're the greatest thing in the ROM creation world.

Most non-CM AOSP-based ROM distros seem to be created by devs with a fetish for ascetic minimalism. CM goes in the other direction, and gives you the kitchen sink in a nicely-presented package with sensible defaults. In a real sense, CM9 is the fully-featured "carrier ROM" we wish our carrier had actually given us. It lets you have your cake and eat it too. You can have pretty eye candy (like users of Sense and Touchwiz) and still be running bleeding-edge builds of Android within hours of the sourcecode getting released by Google (unlike Sense/Touchwiz, which hold back their respective users until HTC/Samsung get around to porting them).

CM does a good job of distilling out the stuff that varies from phone to phone so its developers don't have to reinvent the wheel from scratch with every new release and subject users to months of half-baked semi-/non-working apps that the developer himself doesn't really care about.

In a very real sense, CM is the "Ubuntu" of the Android universe, while most AOSP distros metaphorically fall somewhere between "Slackware" and "Debian". It's polished, generally "Just Works" in ways most users like and approve of, and doesn't intentionally go out of its way to be pedantic or make political statements that mainly piss off users. It separated out the Google apps because Google forced them to do it, but made it as easy as possible to add them back.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Miamicanes]

Part of it might be the fact that the first-gen phones had Qualcomm GPUs, but (AFAIK) Qualcomm only grudgingly and recently released their programming info, and few devs are really interested in dedicating months of their lives to reimplementing the graphics subsystem of a phone that was resoundingly obsoleted by the Nexus One (and has very real resource constraints compared to pretty much any phone that shipped with 2.1+).

There are plenty of good things a first-gen Android phone can be repurposed for instead of trying to be like a 90 year old diva who's had more plastic surgery than Michael Jackson and can still pass for 50 (for a couple of hours) if her team of cosmetologists works on her for a couple of hours before she steps outside. As long as it doesn't rain, and she doesn't touch her face or perspire. An ancient Android phone makes a great programmable remote control, robot controller, embedded home automation controller (with the added bonus that most first-gen HTC phones even have real serial ports hidden on the headphone and USB jacks and just need level shifters), etc. In fact, I think I even saw a project somewhere that repurposes the first-gen GSM phones with prepaid service to do things like remote monitoring and telemetry via SMS (the HeroC and Droid Eris aren't quite as useful in that regard, at least in the US, because neither Sprint nor Verizon have dirt cheap plans you can activate that offer the ability to send/receive SMS and nothing else).

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

That's probably more because of your bluetooth hardware on the Desire had to have code hacks around it- and you didn't get the hacks.

CM7 improved my old Droid1 phone, including Bluetooth function.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[geminidomino]

Given you're using GIMP as an example in a thread almost entirely focused on GUI elements, saying you don't like something about GIMP, and the most controversial feature of the new GIMP is it's GUI changes, maybe you should clarify next time ;-)

I did, two posts further down the subthread. :)

Programmers don't intentionally try to drive use of their programs into the ground. If they are targeting dumb users there's a good chance that there's more potential to expand use in the dumb users category than the 14 years of experience category

Actually, in their own words (or, more accurately, Alexandre Prokoudine's)

I've been monitoring teh interwebz closely regading v2.8 and the save/export change, and what I see is a consistently positive reaction from folks we are targeting: professional web designers, 3D artists
etc. They don't even need the explanation why this change is useful: they already know it, it's how they expect things to work, and they welcome this change. So within our product vision apparently we are doing it right.

The biggest bullshit of that is that everyone already knows what "professional web designers, 3D artists, etc." want.

They want Photoshop. They use Photoshop. They're going to continue to use Photoshop so long as Adobe keeps putting out Photoshop.

So they're crapping on their ACTUAL users for some delusional fancy that they're going to attract people away from the actual, professional package they've been using for years. Even if they're not TRYING to crater their project, I can't imagine a better way to do it.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[InsaneMosquito]

That's a good question. I upgraded by Galaxy Nexus to one of the CM9 nightlies. The video recorder uses a different codec than what it had used. Of course, you don't realize this until you send your mother a video of the baby doing something cute and she suddenly can't play it in Windows Media Player.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[amRadioHed]

I don't disagree that the task switcher is a big improvement over the recent apps list, it's way, way better. But it's certainly an evolutionary change.

The app I have problems with is a Chinese dictionary called Hanping. I believe the problem is supposed to be fixed in the next version. I hope so at least, because it's super annoying having to go back to the home screen all the time :-/

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Airballp]

Why the (more expletives) should I damn well have to move to a non stock ROM just because of a foolish decision by Google?

I think you just answered your own question.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[s73v3r]

So what you're saying is that CM is not always better than vanilla or the skinned versions. Got it.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[s73v3r]

If by "random location", you mean up in the top right corner, as part of the Action Bar, sure.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[s73v3r]

So what you're doing is loading a whole heap of bullshit by trying to claim you know better than they do what their users want.

If that's true, then why don't you fork the project and do it better than them?

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[s73v3r]

Why the (more expletives) should I damn well have to move to a non stock ROM just because of a foolish decision by Google?

Because you want something different than the standard. It's no different than those of us who want updated versions of Android, but aren't able to get them because of decisions by the manufacturers/carriers.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[s73v3r]

I'm 87% sure you're perfectly welcome to grab the source and start working on it yourself.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[geminidomino]

Uh, no. Admittedly, my spelling may be off since I'm cutting down on the coffee, but I thought it was clear enough in english.

I *am* one of their users, and looking at the email lists and gimpusers, I'm not the only one who thinks it's bullshit. So clearly, we (users who don't like this stilted, broken 'workflow') DO know what we want better than they do, yes.

On the other hand, they seem intent on dumping shit on us to appeal to people who *aren't* their users and who will, in all practicality, never BE their users.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[amRadioHed]

The Nexus line is vanilla, where did you get that it isn't? And the Nexus devices aren't locked at all.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Jumperalex]

Agree on settings/menu

disagree, now after like 3 months, on the multi-task button. When intentionally moving between apps, such as copy-pasting (either electronically or using gray matter) it is much faster using the multi-task button. I swore for months that it was useless, until one day i got annoyed as I was switching between two apps on different home screens and BAM my love affair with the multi-task was born.

Now ... now I can't imagine not having it.

But of course, different strokes for different folks. But I think everyone likes consistency so on that we are 100% in agreement.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[bemymonkey]

Oh, so it's more of an app bug, then?

Because the issue in Gingerbread and earlier was rather widespread when opening apps from their notifications.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[CowTipperGore]

Since I have no mod points I'll add that I agree with you completely. I never used the search button and prefer the contextual menu button. I would much rather let the app display a menu button when there is an actual menu available rather than have a dedicated button that often does nothing when you press it. And, I've found the multitasking button is used more than any other button. I love it. And while I came to hate the stiff buttons on my OG Droid and Droid X, I find myself accidentally touching the home "button" on my GN while trying to hit the space bar. My SMS or email message just went away and I'm back to the desktop. Thankfully I can just hit the multitasking button and go right back to where I was.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[amRadioHed]

I'm not sure if it's an app bug or an OS bug that needs to be worked around. Without further information I would assume it is an OS bug since an app should not be able to prevent itself from appearing in the task switcher.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

I *am* one of their users, and looking at the email lists and gimpusers, I'm not the only one who thinks it's bullshit. So clearly, we (users who don't like this stilted, broken 'workflow') DO know what we want better than they do, yes.

On the other hand, they seem intent on dumping shit on us to appeal to people who *aren't* their users and who will, in all practicality, never BE their users.

Rubbish, from the text you quoted from Alexandre Prokoudine:
I've been monitoring teh interwebz closely regading v2.8 and the save/export change, and what I see is a consistently positive reaction from folks we are targeting: professional web designers, 3D artists, etc.

Now explain how one would see a positive reaction from people to a feature if those people didn't even use the software. Logic fail, fool!

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

CM9 is awesome, but it's a little laggier than stock ICS for me. Much like how Ubuntu's UI is laggier than Windows 7

I'm kind of tempted to just port some must-have CM features into a stock Jelly Bean ROM and run that on my device.. but it's a real nightmare to get a custom Android build working at 100% thanks to all the proprietary firmware blobs even in a Nexus device

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[geminidomino]

Now explain how one would see a positive reaction from people to a feature if those people didn't even use the software. Logic fail, fool!

"The lurkers agree with us!" Yeah.

Logic fail, indeed.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[s73v3r]

Again, you're trying to claim you know better than they do what their users want. You know what you want, and you're trying to generalize that to say that's what all of their "important users" want. Basically, you can't stand the idea that you're not the majority of their users.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[s73v3r]

Lurkers are users too. And usually they give better feedback, as they're not the angry, vocal minority.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[geminidomino]

So the ones are making noise are an "angry minority" (as you put in your other post) and the majority aren't saying anything? That's your reasoning?

Ohh kay then. Nothing to do here.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

... or install CyanogenMod and customize your settings yourself, and stop whining.

Sure, if your phone is on the CM supported list.

Any other smart ideas?

Stop buying cheap, off brand phones, then. They're cheap for a reason. And realistically? Your "unsupported" phone is probably supported unofficially.

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[Anonymous Coward]

holy crap I had no idea there was an advanced wifi section! that let's me force 2.4ghz band or 5ghz band on my galaxy S2!

and I thought I was above all the UI complaining about "intuitiveness" or whatever, I'm one of those guys who uses the most disparaged UIs on linux and has no problems, but I have to recognize this point

Re:Number one thing i want from Cyanogen

[cynyr]

well the big thing for me is being able to pin things to the quick access toolbar and then hid the whole ribbon. I can even pin macros to the toolbar so that i can do all sorts of the things (copy the same bits from 3 sheets to a 4th with one button push.

Yet

[Anonymous Coward]

On Sprint, the Epic 4G Touch is still running Gingerbread. Sprint promised Ice Cream Sandwich months ago, yet we haven't seen anything yet.

What good are the new versions if we can't have them?

I want the ability to update my phone to the newest Android versions without rooting it.

Re:Yet

[kidgenius]

I want the ability to update my phone to the newest Android versions without rooting it.

Then buy a nexus device. That's really your only option.

Re:Yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Talk to your OEM and your carrier. Or stop bitching and get a real Android phone, aka, something with the word Nexus in the name.

Re:Yet

[DeathFromSomewhere]

Tell that to the Nexus S owners who had to wait over 6 months for 4.0 to land on their phones. Owning a Nexus phone is not a guarantee of timely updates.

Re:Yet

[oakgrove]

Wasn't that the CDMA Nexus S though? For anybody that doesn't know, not only do you need to have a Nexus device to be assured of updates, that Nexus device needs to not be CDMA. Even the Galaxy Nexus from Verizon is unsupported by AOSP.

Re:Yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Pity Verizon Galaxy Nexus users. No guarantees at all, so not a Nexus device as I understood them to be.

Some BS there because the CDMA Nexus S got its update albeit eventually.

Re:Yet

[oakgrove]

Well, according to the AOSP page for device builds, the Nexus S 4G has been brought back into the officially supported fold so there is hope for the CDMA Galaxy Nexus owners.

Re:Yet

[lightversusdark]

The Verizon Galaxy Nexus (toro) is now back in AOSP. The Sprint GN (toroplus) is still out and there are no plans to add support for it.
The Invensense binary blobs (proprietary gyro/accelerometer) are now OK to distribute, but it's not clear how complete the new release really is.

Re:Yet

[oakgrove]

Yep, I missed it on the binary download page. Also looks like you have to manually type it into the build configuration menu from the lunch command as full_toro-userdebug as it hasn't been added back into that yet. Get to updating that documentation, Google!

Re:Yet

[Anonymous Coward]

The T-Mobile (GSM) Nexus S took forever to get ICS as well.

Re:Yet

[Per Abrahamsen]

The GSM Nexus S started OTA updating in December, then stopped with no explanation when the majority still haven't received an update, and finally restarted in March with the 4.0.4 update. The rumours were that the OTA update was suspended because of poor battery performance, which was only fixed in 4.0.4. Fair enough, but Google could have been more open about it.

Re:Yet

[Nemyst]

As a Nexus S owner, I don't know what you're talking about. I believe the Galaxy Nexus was available mid-November, correct?

Well I updated to ICS in mid-December. A month's wait is honestly quite acceptable and was well worth it.

Re:Yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Some versions did get the update but it was pulled soon after the launch (before the rollout was completed). Other versions of the phone didn't get the update until months later.

Re:Yet

[s73v3r]

Nexus S 4G says hi. And until recently, Nexus devices weren't available on all carriers.

Re:Yet

[dmt0]

Wasn't that the CDMA Nexus S though? For anybody that doesn't know, not only do you need to have a Nexus device to be assured of updates, that Nexus device needs to not be CDMA. Even the Galaxy Nexus from Verizon is unsupported by AOSP.

Does it also need to be a Galaxy Nexus that was not sold in Canada?

Re:Yet

[Anonymous Coward]

You could still manually update. No rooting required IIRC, as it was a signed package.

Samsung Galaxy S III

[Enderandrew]

This is already a really fast phone with ICS, and the Samsung touches are actually pretty nice, but I want to remove the ChatOn service (I'm getting spam messages) and I want Jelly Bean. I'm assuming Cynaogen will give me that option before Samsung/Sprint goes.

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[Anonymous Coward]

Just go into apps and disable chatOn.

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[ozmanjusri]

There's a CM9/Jelly Bean ROM out already. It's not suitable for real use, but I don't think it'll take long.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1737449

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[Mr0bvious]

Before Samsung? I'd say certainly. I'm still waiting for ICS on my Galaxy Tab 10.1 and JB is already out. I wouldn't be overly surprised if Cyanogenmod supported JB for the Galaxy Tab before Samsung roll out ICS.

I know there are rumours of ICS being released for the Galaxy Tab 10.1 over July/August but I'm not holding my breath until I have it.

But really Samsung why are you playing games with releasing ICS for us? I like your products, but your lack of willingness to provide timely updates makes me question if I will buy from you again. /rant

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[Anonymous Coward]

simple.

they are hoping you will buy a new device so you can have the latest o/s..

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[Mr0bvious]

Yes that's why I referred to them 'playing games'.

But it may not work in their favour, instead of me buying a new device from them I'm actually less likely to every buy their devices.

What's more (and supports your assertion) is their current replacement offering (Galaxy Tab 2 10.1) has little to offer over the previous version other than the OS version - so there's no way I'm forking out for a new device just for an OS upgrade. Yes there are other differences, but not enough to warrant another purchase.

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[oakgrove]

I realize your money's already spent but the WiFi Motorola Xoom is the only 10 inch tablet with AOSP support. Samsung should be ashamed of themselves for not updating your device in a timely manner but in the future, I'd at least have a peek at that page I linked before putting money down.

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[Mr0bvious]

Thanks for the heads-up.

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[thegarbz]

I like your products, but your lack of willingness to provide timely updates makes me question if I will buy from you again. /rant

I've always been of the belief that it was Samsung's incompetence more than anything that prevents timely updates to a phone. For the most part there's not a single bit of Samsung software that I've looked forward to. About the best thing you can do is hope for Cyanogenmod support. The Galaxy S runs CM9 faster than any Samsung firmware ever did, and their official reason for not supporting ICS on the Galaxy S is that the device is too slow to run it ... riiiiiiiight.

Samsung do make fantastic hardware though. I would recommend any future Android purchases are based on the quality of hardware and their ability to run Cyanogenmod more than any other advertised gimmicky feature.

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't Samsung hire Mr Cyanogenmod himself to work for them a couple of years ago? So why are they still so useless with updates?

Their extreme tardiness with updates put me off getting a Galaxy Note, even though hardware-wise it is what I really want. Maybe if they improve I'll consider a Note 2, but if they don't I'll go with devices that actually get timely updates.

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[geminidomino]

I'm with you. I still haven't forgiven them for the POS that was the Moment.

It did prompt me to give HTC another try though. Picked up an Evo on eBay. First smartphone I've had in five years that didn't completely suck (I apparently have bad luck in choosing)

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[Psyborgue]

Same situation here. ICS is way faster than stock 2.1 on my Galaxy S (Vibrant). There's no reason it shouldn't be. It's GPU is faster than even the iPhone 4 and drives fewer pixels. Samsung just wants you to buy a new phone (which they bloat all to hell with their crapware). Next phone I buy will be a Nexus. I'm sick of this Manufacturer/carrier bullshit and I don't like running third party roms where the camera/gpu/wifi/gps/emergency dialing may or may not work correctly or at all.

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[farble1670]

But really Samsung why are you playing games with releasing ICS for us? I like your products, but your lack of willingness to provide timely updates makes me question if I will buy from you again. /rant

that's naive.

rolling out ICS is not as simple as grabbing AOSP and building. it's actually very complex. they have to port all of their UI customizations. they have validate and fix all of their add-on apps. they have to validate and fix their drivers. and the biggest of all, they have to get the carriers to sign off on it. carriers have final say on the software that goes onto devices sold into their network.

CM can get out faster because it's stock android UI, doesn't have add-on apps (or adds on free apps that don't need validation), doesn't need carrier approval, and the biggest of all, if there's a bug, they don't get tens of thousands of people calling their tech support and tons of bad press over it. CM can operate on best-effort. people are just happy to have something that works at all. they will put up with occasional crashes. on the contrary, if a stock consumer device crashes, the user is sending it back to the factory at the manufacturer's expense.

that being said, you have to ask why device manufacturers don't remedy the problems that they at least have control over. why don't they ship stock android? why don't they avoid bundling add-on applications and let users get what they want from the market (they can just switch to distributing their apps on the market, instead of flashing them onto the device). they don't do these things because UI customizations and add-on apps are differentiators. device manufacturers are scared to death of getting into a game where one tablet is as good as the other and they are competing on price alone. they all want to be where apple is at- selling premium hardware at a premium price.

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[Mr0bvious]

Not really naive - I have a decent understanding the effort required.

1) All of their UI customisations are already done for their Galaxy Tab 2 10.1

2) Their drivers don't need to be updated per se, they only need to be adapted to any changes in the OS API (kernel) which I doubt was much - remember this is not for new hardware, it's just the OS. But again, for the most part this was already done for the Galaxy Tab 2, and for somewhat new hardware (with the little changes there were)

3) All their add on apps were also already done for the version 2.

4) No carriers are involved for their plain Samsung branded tablets and non 3G capable variants.

5) Many other manufacturers managed to release ICS in a timely manner, why is Samsung so different?

The CM guys may have advantages in the QA required but they are at a significant disadvantage to Samsung as they have to reverse engineer, clobber together existing random bits and generally have a lot more head scratching to do to get the same job done. My intention wasn't really to compare Samsung to CM it was more to emphasise Samsung's lack lustre effort on releasing ICS to the existing customers and instead trying to gouge more money out of who ever they can.

Samsung don't need to compete on price alone, they should probably stick to what their core business is - building quality, well built and attractive hardware. I doubt anyone is choosing Samsung over their competitors based on their software offerings - I certainly don't and would rather they did ship with stock Android, but that's just my opinion.

Re:Samsung Galaxy S III

[thegarbz]

Didn't Samsung hire Mr Cyanogenmod himself to work for them a couple of years ago? So why are they still so useless with updates?

Well after hiring Mr Cyanogenmod they haven't released any fundamentally cocked up OSes like Android 2.1 on the Galaxy S (the only version of Android which ran so slowly that the OS would force close apps because it thinked they locked up while accessing the filesystem).

That said why are they still useless with updates? Because the quality of the coder has nothing to do with corporate politics. And that is either a brilliant move from Samsung's corporate goons, chasing dumb users with pointless hardware updates, or again an incredibly stupid move given that users on plans in many parts of the world will opt for free upgrades of their phones through carriers as it is.

No kidding

[Jethro]

CM9 just took sooo long. In fact the final release isn't out yet.

I just couldn't resist and put Jellybean on my Galaxy Nexus. But CyanogenMod still has a few features that are not incorporated into plain Android, nor are there apps for them. Not that I could find anyway. For example I want the battery in the status bar to show a percent number (there are apps that add that, but IN ADDITION to the regular battery), and I /love/ the Volume-Button-Long-Press-Skips-Tracks. Very very very useful while jogging. Oh and the power widgets in the pull-down, way better than the Power Control Widget.

CM9 took so long because they had to start from scratch. They are saying that CM10 should not be NEARLY as big a deal, so here's hoping!

Re:No kidding

[oakgrove]

You can download Elixir 2 for the pull down widget functionality and it has the battery percentage in the statusbar as well, though as you say it is in addition to the regular battery indicator.

Re:No kidding

[Jethro]

I have Elixir2, never looked into most of what it can do though - I will check that out, thanks.

Re:No kidding

[Jethro]

Uhhh... good for you?...

Re:No kidding

[Jethro]

I prefer to make columns out of the skulls of my enemies.

Re:No kidding

[mrmeval]

I've not seen any indication that the original Galaxy S will get a version above 2.2 Froyo which will have working 911. I will never buy a phone I cannot get complete source code for all drivers. I might as well have bought an iphone.

Re:No kidding

[Jethro]

That's why I always buy Nexus phones. Unlocked. Costs more but I keep 'em going for a few years.

Re:No kidding

[oakgrove]

I hate to say this but there isn't a single modern smartphone on the market with full open source drivers. The main culprits are the GPU and cameras. Even the fully AOSP supported devices like Nexus and WiFi Xoom require proprietary addons that you have to download in addition to the regular Android source in order to get everything working. I pulled the source for jelly bean earlier for the Galaxy Nexus and had to get blobs for the GPU, WiFi/Bluetooth, camera and accelerometer. As long as Google supports your phone you are good but when that support runs out you might be on your own. That said, you are still miles better than with any other device.

Re:No kidding

[Zeroedout]

I hate to say this, but not *any* other device. The Openmoko Neo Freerunner has all drivers open source (including GPU) and http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/ as well. The only things not free are the GSM firmware and the wifi firmware. The Freerunner original already has working (but not user friendly) FOSS GSM firmware with OsmocomBB http://bb.osmocom.org/
Oh but these aren't Android phones &_&

Re:No kidding

[oakgrove]

I actually thought about the freerunner when I wrote that but I figured it might be getting a little long in the tooth. But much respect to what they accomplished.

Re:No kidding

[Anonymous Coward]

They fixed the 911 bugs months ago, turned out to be an improperly packaged audio driver. I'm on AOKP 4.0.4 and have tested 911 features, they work just fine on my T-Mobile branded Galaxy S.

Re:No kidding

[Anonymous Coward]

At this point, if you're with any provider with an actual Unlimited data plan- you're better off buying the phone retail instead of "upgrading".

You keep the data plan and depending on your usage, you're going to actaully save money or at least break even- the only pain's that you have to save up your money up-front instead of getting the "cheap" phone. Verizon's screwed up on that score. I'm saving hundreds of dollars over the next two year period by buying the phone outright- it's only a savings if you've got 3 or more lines on a given "shared" plan and don't have an unlimited plan in the mix.

Re:No kidding

[Jethro]

I'm grandfathered in with t-mobile's actual unlimited everything plan. They keep trying to get me to switch to their new plans which are limited, but I don't plan on doing that.

Re:No kidding

[Zebedeu]

Costs more

No it doesn't.

Upfront, sure, but I've yet to find a contract where after it runs out, you haven't paid more for the phone that if you'd bought it and the contract separately.

Re:No kidding

[Jethro]

Correct, but "upfront" is what most people see.

I haven't had to renew my contract in many many years, which is good because they don't offer the deal I got any more. I pay $80 a month for unlimited EVERYthing. And it's actually unlimited and doesn't get throttled after a soft-limit.

Re:No kidding

[Rich0]

That depends on your provider. In the US with the "big two" you pay the same whether you get the free/cheap phone or not. If you don't get a new phone they just smile since you're paying them huge rates and not even taking the promotional offer.

I know T-Mobile will give you a break for not getting a new phone - it is substantial, especially with a data plan. I'm likely to switch over as the savings are more than the cost of a retail phone, and they will even do interest-free financing if you want. Plus, now when the new Nexus phones come out direct sale only I don't have any qualms about ordering one and forgoing the subsidy.

Re:No kidding

[ChunderDownunder]

Hackers wanted: Replicant

Can't wait for AOSP roms for Galaxy S III

[anethema]

On the american version of the Galaxy S III and there is only the crappy sense roms out, nothing standard android like CM9/10, AOKP, whatever. Development seems slower than usual despite the fully unlocked bootloader etc. Maybe this will help!

Re:Can't wait for AOSP roms for Galaxy S III

[h4rr4r]

Sense? I think you mean touchwiz. Sense is the HTC frontend.

The american version of the Galaxy S3 includes the bootloader locked verizon unit.

looking forward to it, and to the tablet

[Speare]

So if Google took over the "pole position" hardware release with the Nexus 7, and they also release the Jelly Bean source code, does that mean that they're going to be the cleanest, easiest platform to hack?

I'm a bit worried now that I see that some of the media features won't be available on non-US devices; not because I'm overseas, but because that usually means the MAFIAA has some control over the hardware. I really want the little tablet, to replace my aging Nook Color. If it turns out there are bootloader lockin games being played, I'll be pretty much done with Android.

Re:looking forward to it, and to the tablet

[oakgrove]

AOSP has the proprietary binaries necessary for a from source build of Android for the Nexus 7 which would be kind of pointless if the boot loader wasn't unlockable so you're probably safe.

Kill The Beast

[SuperKendall]

Slashdot, why is there no way to mark other users as spammers? It's really frustrating to have people like this pollute the message stream.

Re:Kill The Beast

[geminidomino]

Unless slashdot's doing something weird (never!) with your theming, or you have javascript turned off/NoScripted (who can blame you?), you should be able to use the little flag at the bottom right of the post.

Whether or not anyone does anything about it is another matter, entirely.

stupid repo script is broken

[Skapare]

It seems to make assumptions that are not valid, such as the host name being a valid RHS of email.

Google support of third party mods

[toejam13]

I am actually surprised that Google does not have a dedicated development team working in co-operation with an independent mod group such as Cyanogenmod.

It is fairly clear that one of the greatest problems with Android is with version fragmentation. Mobile carriers have been very sluggish or outright hostile regarding major firmware upgrades on their handsets. It would be preferable for Google to ensure that carriers are contractually obligated to support OS upgrades for at least four or five years. But until that happens, throwing resources at the issue through a back door would be a nice thing.

Re:Google support of third party mods

[phantomfive]

It is fairly clear that one of the greatest problems with Android is with version fragmentation

Is it really? As a mobile developer, I find that it's a simple problem to deal with by just coding to an older API. I haven't found any problem with it not being backwards compatible, and the older APIs are good enough for most things.

A much bigger problem I've had is with different hardware platforms being different, with sometimes bizarre issues like the Kyocera Milano having a clock that goes backwards from time to time. This is a problem on iPhone too, but since there are fewer iphone platforms, it's easier...

Re:Google support of third party mods

[Anonymous Coward]

I am actually surprised that Google does not have a dedicated development team working in co-operation with an independent mod group such as Cyanogenmod.

I don't know. As the developer of a particular value-add feature of CM 7, I must say that my interest in porting the code to CM9 is really limited. It seems they rebased their fork, and I would have to redevelop the code from scratch.

I would be more amenable to the task if they had Test Driven Development. As it stands, coders submit a patch and if testers think it works well on their device then it is blessed.

I like to think my code doesn't have bugs, but the lack of regression tests makes me reticent to contribute significant effort.

If you can't even agree on a continuous regression test suite, then how can you expect people to rely on your system?

Re:Google support of third party mods

[Anonymous Coward]

"As a mobile developer, I find that it's a simple problem to deal with by just coding to an older API."

That's exactly the problem. People having to code with older APIs due to platform fragmentation means that new features of the OS have far lower adoption rates even for the devices that can handle them.

Re:Google support of third party mods

[oakgrove]

It's still not really that big of an issue though as most of the new APIs have compatibility libraries going back to version 2.2 of Android which covers over 95 percent of that market. And Android as of about 2.2 actually is pretty feature complete and still quite competitive with the competition so there isn't a whole lot devs have been clamoring for anyway. Users just want it to be smooth and trouble free and ICS/jellybean are delivering on that.

Re:Google support of third party mods

[Hast]

It's also worth mentioning that Google has done some work to help developers with compatability. There was a talk about it on IO this year as well: Google I/O 2012 - Multi-Versioning Android User Interfaces (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amZM8oZBgfk).

Re:Google support of third party mods

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, you'd think the slashdot crowd would be more loving of a time-travel capable Android.

Re:Google support of third party mods

[Ash Vince]

I am actually surprised that Google does not have a dedicated development team working in co-operation with an independent mod group such as Cyanogenmod.

It is fairly clear that one of the greatest problems with Android is with version fragmentation. Mobile carriers have been very sluggish or outright hostile regarding major firmware upgrades on their handsets. It would be preferable for Google to ensure that carriers are contractually obligated to support OS upgrades for at least four or five years. But until that happens, throwing resources at the issue through a back door would be a nice thing.

Every time you mention the word "carrier" in your post, I think you actually mean the company who produce the handset hardware. They are actually the people who neglect to release patches for old devices as they would much rather you went and bought a new device instead.

It would be very hard for Google to obligate anything of the carriers as they have no business relationship with them. Google do have a business relationship with HTC, Samsung, Motorola, etc though so they could obligate them to release patches for old hardware although it may irritate the handset makers enough that they would move to Windows 8 instead.

Re:Google support of third party mods

[Sloppy]

It would be preferable for Google to ensure that carriers are contractually obligated to support OS upgrades

If Google had the power to do that, then nobody would want Android.

Re:Google support of third party mods

[Anonymous Coward]

A much bigger problem I've had is with different hardware platforms being different, with sometimes bizarre issues like the Kyocera Milano having a clock that goes backwards from time to time.

That's is an undocumented feature: a built in time machine!

Re:Google support of third party mods

[Andy Dodd]

Wrong. It's pretty clear that the carriers are the major blocker for updates.

For example, the Samsung Infuse 4G was originally released with Android 2.2. Canadian devices on Rogers received Gingerbread (Android 2.3) in late July/early August 2011. AT&T devices did not see Gingerbread until February 2012.

The Samsung Captivate was nearly identical to the original Samsung Galaxy S. The similarities were enough that community developers were able to have the I9000 Gingerbread release fully functional within weeks of Gingerbread for the I9000 becoming available. The Captivate did not receive an official upgrade through AT&T for NINE MONTHS.

The AT&T variant of the Samsung Galaxy S II (SGH-I777) is nearly identical to the international version (GT-I9100). As a result, there are only a handful of software differences required between the two handsets:
1) Change the digital I/O settings for the audio chip to a different sample rate - this was included in the GT-I9100 source code release
2) Change the keymap for the touchkeys - This was also included in the GT-I9100 source code release
3) Unmap the GPIO line for the HOME key which doesn't exist on the device - This was missing from the GT-I9100 source code release, but took less than a week to identify and fix
4) Swap the audio channels for the noise cancelling and main microphones - This took me a single Saturday to reverse engineer and fix

Despite these minor changes, the AT&T ICS release was delayed for more than three months, and was of worse quality than some of the early I9100 ICS leak builds. In addition to poor battery performance, frequent crashes, and other bugs not present in the initial I9100 ICS release, the SGH-I777 official release contains a severe bug that can permanently damage the device's eMMC storage if the user performs a factory reset.

If carriers didn't get in the way, the SGH-I777 would not exist - users would have received the GT-I9100 and would have received a high-quality ICS build in mid-March instead of an awful hackjob in late June.

Re:Google support of third party mods

[Anonymous Coward]

Platform "fragmentation" is a bullshit line.

You don't expect a machine that's comprised of a PIII to be able to run an OS or features from this year do you?

No?

Then why in the HELL do you expect the same out of the roughly analogous situation with the older Android devices? Wise up.

Re:Google support of third party mods

[s73v3r]

As a mobile developer, I find that it's a simple problem to deal with by just coding to an older API.

And then that means that developers aren't able to take advantage of any of the new stuff. What's the point in supporting things like Big Notifications, or anything ICS related, if hardly anyone is able to run it?

Re:Google support of third party mods

[phantomfive]

Yeap, it would be slightly better if everyone upgraded right now to Jelly Bean. The thing is, there isn't that much new stuff that is so compelling that you need it to be there. There's nothing in ICS that is an absolute necessity.

Like I said, I get more pain from other parts of Android.

Re:Google support of third party mods

[ChunderDownunder]

A 1Ghz P3 with a decent amount of RAM and a non-sucky video card should run Kubuntu 12.04 adequately - if not at warp speed.

Anyway, hardware sold in 2010 (512MB, 800Mhz CPU) should be fine to run something newer than Gingerbread. My phone's support ran out at Froyo, however. Chugging along with CM 7.2.0, though it might be a few months before volunteers release 9.0

Re:Google support of third party mods

[Ash Vince]

Thanks for the informative post. Maybe things are different here in blighty though. At least all your complaints are about slow updates not just non existent ones.

I have to admit I was basing my post on personal experience as my HTC Desire HD is not getting Android 4 at all based on HTC, not the fact that my carrier T-Mobile are being slow.

The things is though that I know a few people who do not buy phones from the carriers, they just buy the unbranded phone like you had to with the Google Nexus and they still find they are not getting updated to Android 4 unless they do it themselves.

Re:Google support of third party mods

[s73v3r]

There's nothing in ICS that is an absolute necessity.

There's nothing in Android at all that's an "absolute necessity". We could all get by with StarTac style phones and Nokia bricks.

Re:Google support of third party mods

[phantomfive]

So what you are trying to say is, that you find fragmentation to be one of, if not THE major problem facing Android today?

Sure is platinum mad in here...

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't the menu button always in the upper-right now? The problem with the old fixed button is not every app/view has a menu. You don't know if pushing the button will actually do anything until you try it.

FYI, the official rationale:

[Anonymous Coward]

http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2012/01/say-goodbye-to-menu-button.html

Re:FYI, the official rationale:

[Tough Love]

Is this rationale by the same idiot how thinks it's a good idea not to have a way to exit a program?

Today a button on my G2 got bumped, result, a sound player playing a sound over and over again. So obviously I should just exit and it stops? Noooooooo. Instead my choices are: 1) force close 2) figure out the braindamaged UI on the sound player to pause the playback. And then... the app which I don't want running is just sitting there all ready to annoy me again. Force close. Sheesh. What drugs do they put in the iced tea in Mountain View anyway?

Re:FYI, the official rationale:

[Anonymous Coward]

When an app misbehaves like that, I just go into the applications menu and uninstall it. I'm not a "three strikes" kind of person with this stuff.

Re:FYI, the official rationale:

[h4rr4r]

Press the recent applications button, and slide the tile off the screen.

Re:FYI, the official rationale:

[Rich0]

Well, you already got the knee-jerk Android reaction - just uninstall the app.

If I followed this advice anytime an app annoyed me in some way I wouldn't be running any apps.

You know what the response on Windows 3.1 used to be when an app hung the entire system due to a lack of strong process separation and pre-emptive multitasking? Uninstall it... And yet who considers a lack of those two characteristics to be a "feature" of a modern operating system (even android has those).

I've said it elsewhere. Google has to start with the assumption that the only thing applications do is steal data and destroy the phone experience, but users still like to install them anyway, and manage them accordingly. Don't tell me that the app could steal my data - I knew it would do that before I installed it - KEEP IT FROM STEALING MY DATA. Yes, I know a contact manager needs access to my contacts, but maybe I want to use Facebook but NOT give it access to my contacts. Rather than trusting the checkbox in Facebook to work, why not just let the OS block it?

Re:FYI, the official rationale:

[CannonballHead]

Well, you already got the knee-jerk Android reaction - just uninstall the app.

If you're referring to the "slide the tile" comment, that doesn't uninstall it. It just removes it from your "recently used" application list. And stops the application from running, apparently. It does NOT uninstall it.

Re:FYI, the official rationale:

[s73v3r]

2) figure out the braindamaged UI on the sound player to pause the playback.

If you can't figure out how to pause the playback on your sound player, I think you've got bigger problems.

Re:FYI, the official rationale:

[Rich0]

I was referring to the other comment.

Re:FYI, the official rationale:

[Tough Love]

That just removes the application from the list, doesn't stop it.

Re:FYI, the official rationale:

[Tough Love]

2) figure out the braindamaged UI on the sound player to pause the playback.

If you can't figure out how to pause the playback on your sound player, I think you've got bigger problems.

How thoughtful of you. See "brain damaged UI" above.

Re:FYI, the official rationale:

[CannonballHead]

I haven't seen that one yet. hehe.

Re:FYI, the official rationale:

[s73v3r]

Yeah. And if you can't figure it out, you've got bigger problems. Either you can't figure out a simple UI, or you're using a player with a crappy UI when there are many alternatives. If your sound player's UI sucks so bad, why are you still using it?

Re:FYI, the official rationale:

[Tough Love]

Apparently you have reading comprehension difficulties, on top of your antisocial tendencies.

Not for Nexus S and Xoom

[gparent]

The binaries for the Nexus S and Xoom are not available yet and won't be until the OTA update.

I tried compiling AOSP with android 4.1.1r1 checked out, adding the 4.0.4 vendor proprietary files, putting it on my phone, then flashing the ICS kernel, but it did not work.

Oh well. I'll be waiting.

Re:Not for Nexus S and Xoom

[danceswithtrees]

Here are directions from someone on the Android team: http://twitter.com/arubin/status/27808662429

Kidding aside, I think Jobs was right on this one. Because phones are locked and drivers for the phone devices are difficult obtain, the closed vs open source OS is a moot point. Android might be open but there are real hurdles to updating the Android firmware on phones-- handset manufactures just don't want you to do it.

I have a Virgin Mobile LG phone running Android 2.2. I am still waiting for the 2.3 upgrade promised sometime in 2010. I've thought about installing one of the cyanogenmod firmwares but the lack of support for all phone features gives me pause-- oh and the risk of bricking my phone. I like tinkering with electronics but I like my phone to phone.

Re:Not for Nexus S and Xoom

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh? They were there when I checked last night.

devices/stingray for the US 3G
devices/wingray for the US WiFi

For instance:

https://android.googlesource.com/device/moto/wingray/+/android-4.1.1_r1/

Re:Not for Nexus S and Xoom

[Anonymous Coward]

And the Nexus S is under

device/crespo

https://android.googlesource.com/device/samsung/crespo/+/android-4.1.1_r1/

Re:Not for Nexus S and Xoom

[gparent]

I have to disagree with you. I'm trying to build an OS that wasn't released yet, with parts missing. It's my own damn fault if it's hard. If I had used the OTA (as I have done many times before), it would be a seamless process. Other manufacturers may make it hard but I don't buy from those manufacturers, period. I turned down a HTC Panache for a Nexus S because I knew what I was getting into. Average Joe might not know this, so I make it a point to tell it to people before they get a new phone.

So while you're right about the situation, I don't find Apple any better.

Re:Not for Nexus S and Xoom

[danceswithtrees]

I think Apple tends to push updates for their phones for longer than are offered for Android devices.

In my case, there is no OTA update -- a lot of people have been waiting since it was announced in late 2010 for the Optimus V. Virgin Mobile still sells this phone with Android 2.2.

My point wasn't that one philosophy (open vs walled garden) is better or not. My point is that upgrading of the open Android firmware is difficult. Perhaps it is hard like the early days of installing Linux on any hardware but possibly made more difficult on purpose by handset manufacturers to promote new sales.

Re:Not for Nexus S and Xoom

[gparent]

Still missing a bunch of binaries that are required to boot the phone, but I figure you probably tried the compile and found out by now.

Re:Not for Nexus S and Xoom

[gparent]

I think Apple tends to push updates for their phones for longer than are offered for Android devices.

Very possible, although the Nexus S went (or will go) through Gingerbread, ICS and Jellybean. Not too shabby.

My point is that upgrading of the open Android firmware is difficult.

Right, and my point was that it's only difficult with shit phones/carriers. Upgrading Android on a non-fubard device is as easy as downloading a zip file, putting it on the root of your sdcard and rebooting the phone. You don't need to unlock the bootloader and you don't need root. Flashing an arbitrary OS only requires unlocking the bootloader (which can be relocked), flashing a recovery that can do it (stock recovery doesn't really need to be able to flash arbitrary OSes), and then flashing the .zip. It's actually one command from a compiled AOSP tree, but that's not what Mr. Sixpack is going to have.

It's when HTC, Samsung and whoever start including their stupid proprietary shit that it all goes upwards and hits the fan. You're entire right about non-Google devices, and I wish Google would do something about it, but I refuse to label it as "Android is hard to install/upgrade/modify". It's the easiest mobile OS to work with if you have a reference (read: non-neutered) device.

Re:Upon reading source code, researchers discover.

[Anonymous Coward]

Except nobody cares about fuckerlords who start their comments in the subject line.

Re:Number one thing i want.

[Anonymous Coward]

Some simple Googling shows that they are working on it. For some time, they did not have the drivers and libs required. They have since been released.

Calm the fuck down.

Installation instructions? Where are they?

[G3ckoG33k]

I tried to find the installation instructions but could not find any on the CyanogenMod website. I found them on other sites but would rather find them next to the source.

Anyone with a link?

Re:Installation instructions? Where are they?

[gparent]

I don't know why you expect Google's official instructions to install Android be on the CyanogenMod website, but they are quite simply:

Download the factory image once it comes out (it will be either a full image or an update package), rename it to update.zip (might be unnecessary) and then place that file on the root of your /sdcard partition (Whatever is accessible when you turn on USB sharing). The upgrade will be done the next time the phone boots.

The factory images will come out AFTER the OTA, though, so if you have an unlocked phone it is either already done (Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 7) or it is upcoming (Nexus S, Nexus S 4G, Xoom, others)

Re:Upon reading source code, researchers discover.

[G3ckoG33k]

"Android is garbage designed "By Faggots, For Faggots" and it will never be as good as iOS"

Isn't it strange that iOS is included with hardware that is more designed than the OS... Go figure, wannabe.

Does call recording work yet?

[coder111]

As far as I know Android has massive issues with accessing the call voice stream. There have been bugs registered with hundreds of angry users yelling for better support for this.

Take a look at this: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/MediaRecorder.AudioSource.html
There are VOICE_DOWNLINK & VOICE_UPLINK streams, but people accessing them get exceptions instead of working streams most of the time...

Has JB improved that at all? I'll need to go test if my current phone has these streams working or not. And how about actually playing audio into the call? AFAIK old symbian phones had this.

--Coder

Re:Does call recording work yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are going to run into serious issues with that (in the US), especially if it ever works properly. Our jackbooted government will declare it a tool of crime (illegal wiretapping) and make it unlawful to possess one, if it is not already.

Re:Does call recording work yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that there are some non-trivial legal issues there, right? A number of states consider it a serious crime to record a call unless all participants are aware it is being recorded.

Re:Upon reading source code, researchers discover.

[Anonymous Coward]

It wasn't hard for M$ to make competing OS to iOS. It was simply a matter of dumbing the system down and removing features till a 3 year old found it usable and voila an OS that competes with ALL of Apple's software minus the retro crappy interface.

Oh Yay. Cyanogenmod.

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, let's just get this straight right away.

Cyanogenmod sucks. It really does - hardcore. It's buggy, unstable, and doesn't support all of the hardware features in most phones.

I applaud them for attempting a "from scratch" custom android distribution, but every phone out there is custom tailored "just a little bit" in hardware so that it requires code from the carrier to function 100%.

A far better idea is to take the factory distribution and simply strip all of the bloatware and CarrierIQ out of it. That way you still get the stability of a factory ROM.

Re:Number one thing i want.

[RoboRay]

If you are volunteering to help with the Nexus One project, I'm sure they'll be happy to have you on board.

Legality issues

[coder111]

Just a note regarding legality- Android phones are sold all over the world, and plenty of countries allow recording calls. Calls are recorded in US in plenty of instances as well- in case you are talking to a broker, your call is recorded. Managers/sales people, etc record calls often. Nokia symbian phones did have this feature, and they were legally sold in US.

Answering machines also record calls all the time. Right now there is no possibility of implementing any of that on Android.

There might be an issue with security- an app could intercept your calls and send them to some 3rd party, but right now calls are handled by a binary blob- baseband firmware, which can also be hacked and forced to intercept your calls, even though it's more difficult.

--Coder

Re:Number one thing i want.

[Anonymous Coward]

They overlook the Nexus One because it's an obsolete piece of shit that is incapable of running anything higher than GB.

Unlike previous releases? Jesus Christ

[Flipao]

The Honeycomb source wasn't released because it was a mess, it's been explained to death. Every other version had its source code released in record time.

Months passed? WTF are you smoking?

[Andy Dodd]

ICS was announced on October 19, 2012.
ICS source was released on November 14, 2012. LESS THAN A MONTH.

In addition - the first device to actually RECEIVE ICS did not become available until NOVEMBER 17. Yes, that's right, source was released THREE DAYS BEFORE the first device to receive ICS became available.

Re:Months passed? WTF are you smoking?

[gl4ss]

and honeycomb never, that puts the average up quite a bit.

Security issues?

[JTsyo]

If the source code is available does it expose security flaws to malware producers?

Re:Months passed? WTF are you smoking?

[Andy Dodd]

That was a special exception that has been explained time and time again - Google didn't want people shoehorning it into phones.

Re:Upon reading source code, researchers discover.

[Anonymous Coward]

The tech industry is pretty consistently gay friendly, and Apple and Google are often ranked among the best places for gays to work. So it's actually fairly likely that faggots were involved in the development of both Android and iOS.

Incidentally much of modern computing today would not be possible without faggots like Alan Turing. Computer science is actually pretty gay, go figure.

Re:Months passed? WTF are you smoking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Already modded so anon, but seriously? Honeycomb was released - you can check it out right now if you want, not sure what tag it's under. It's an older version of ICS.

It wasn't released because Google even said the code was unfinished and they didn't want someone just taking the code, porting it, and when it didn't work, blame Google.

Think of it like this. Honeycomb was unfinished, and it's finished version was called Ice Cream Sandwhich. When the code was finished it was released in under a month.

It's been explained DOZENS of times already...

Re:Months passed? WTF are you smoking?

[s73v3r]

Still not an excuse.

Re:Months passed? WTF are you smoking?

[amRadioHed]

You're being obtuse. The code in Honeycomb was broken, it was flat out broken. Would not work on phones at all (i.e 99.9% of Android devices that existed at the time). Code being non-functional is a perfectly valid reason not to release.

Re:Upon reading source code, researchers discover.

[Anonymous Coward]

As a "faggot", I'm happy to have an OS designed for people like me. And everyone knows that gay men have superior taste to straight men* so Android must be better designed than iOS, so I'm sure that Android devs will take your comment as a compliment as it was no doubt intended.

*If they didn't, then why would there be a need for shows like "Queer eye for the straight guy".

Oh, the flag....

[SuperKendall]

Thanks for that, I always thought that was to mark a post as a favorite or something along those lines! I guess it's an iconography hiccup then.

Thanks

[G3ckoG33k]

"I don't know why you expect Google's official instructions to install Android be on the CyanogenMod website"

Thanks. After reading about the CyanogenMod I forgot about the articles' main focus... My fault.

Re:Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

Aha, no worries. It is a good ROM :) I don't know what device you use, but they started putting out release candidates for the ICS-based version of the ROM (CM9) on certain devices.