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Windows 8 Mail Leaves Users Pining For the Desktop — or Even Their Phones
jbrodkin writes "The e-mail client in Windows 8 is the shell of a potentially good application — but Microsoft hasn't given it the proper care it deserves. With less than a month before Windows 8 hits RTM, Mail is a mess that doesn't support IMAP, can't connect to servers with self-signed certificates, and lacks basic features like flagging messages for followup. Metro Mail is feature-deficient compared not just to other desktop and tablet apps — it's behind Microsoft's own phone platform. Whether used on a tablet or desktop, this in-depth look concludes that Metro Mail in its current form will have users pining for a real desktop application."
They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Give Windows 8 users a real email client and cannibalize Outlook/Office sales
Give Windows 8 users a stripped down client and get pilloried in the press and taken to the woodshed by Apple.
Good ol' Microsoft internal politics at its finest.
I see what you did there.
Tablets are great, and an optimized tablet UI can be both intuitive and efficient so long as you're using a fucking tablet.
Seriously... it's like MS is trying to put the umbrella down the chimney up for this one.
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
THIS is one of MS's biggest problems IMHO.
Compare that to some of their competitors that will suddenly toss out a fully functional product, available NOW. Not complete and polished maybe, but at least it works acceptably well just out of the gate, and isn't months away from release.
That crap only works when selling to businesses. If they're going to compete in the private sector they're going to have to get their act straight and get some hustle going.
Semifunctional products scheduled for release months from now won't compete well with products that work that are available today. You'll either enter the market with few available new customers or catch all sorts of bad PR about needing several patches just to get it working as expected/advertised (or both) like the others already in the market already do.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
They could of took the opportunity to say don't like your Windows mail client, switch to Thunderbird.
people still use email clients!?
I certainly do. Best way for me to manage my multiple email accounts with multiple servers.
This thing has a Vista-rushed-to-market feel about it.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The only reason people look at Microsoft is to use the desktop software and GUI's they know like the back of their hand. MS is NOT going to be able to compete on technology alone because they are behind that curve. If they can't give you a mobile version that works like the MS desktop and Office, they are hosed.
Table-ized A.I.
Like Star Trek, every other number is good. Starting, in Microsoft's case, with X. Or something.
I only use online mail, but via Thunderbird so I can ignore the asstastic web pages and don't have to view ads.
Online mail is fine, but better in a conventional format with a portable archive.
Thunderbird Portable rocks for this, and you can copy the whole program folder to DVD for read-only archiving which won't be changed by sync'ing online.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
That saying is about the movies, not the series.
I've been using the Windows 8 mail client instead of outlook on my MacBook Air with my exchange email for a few weeks and mostly like it. It reads mail/sends mail, is bloody fast, never hangs or slows down. That being said 1) it's a beta product 2) it does have the option to provide feedback to Microsoft within the app It is short on some features, I await final release to pass final judgement.
I converted back from web-based shit email (had enough of google's mail, yahoo's mail and all the rest of the big CRAP mail ui's they throw at us) and I went back to thunderbird. have been loving it for the last year or so, now. its great. local typing, no lost stuff, no hangs, no delays, no network-reachability issues or timeouts, no ads, no jscript, no worries about blocking and maintenance.
my life is a whole lot simpler using good old IMAP and local email pulled down.
the cloud can go fuck itself ;) I'm back with local apps and enjoying the speed of my machine and a *stable* UI experience.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Whelp, there goes a big toe...
A corporation without leaders is like a foot without a big toe. And Steve Ballmer isn't always gonna be here to be that big toe for us. I think that we owe a big round of applause to our newest, bestest buddy, and big toe... Steve Ballmer.
This thing has a Vista-rushed-to-market feel about it.
The thing about vista almost everyone who ended up with, spent money upgrading to 7 because it fixed everything.
Doesn't support IMAP? Whaaaaaa? How in the hell can they forget that?
Designer: "Hey boss! We finished the new model of sedan for next week's unveiling!"
Boss: "Great! Show me!"
Designer: "It's got a great interior, class leading power, even cheaper than the competition! And the milage? It's great!"
Boss: "That's awesome news! Hey, where's the steering wheel?"
Designer: "Steering wheel? Wait, the car's supposed to turn?"
Boss: "...uh, yeah. They all do that. And kind of need to."
Designer: "...crap! I knew we forgot something!"
This thing has a Vista-rushed-to-market feel about it.
The thing about vista almost everyone who ended up with, spent money upgrading to 7 because it fixed everything.
Yep, a Win win for Microsoft.
I'll get me coat.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
people still use email clients!?
Sure! Why the fuck not?
Google and Yahoo both support IMAP. If I'm not interested in doing it through a shitty Java webmail client, I can fire up T-Bird, Claws, M2, Pine, Alpine, and any other MUA that supports IMAP and get the job done.
It allows me to use real editors, complex filtering, flagging, foldering, archiving, etc. It makes sending encrypted mail a whole heck of a lot easier.
Why aren't you using an IMAP MUA to connect to your webmail?
--
BMO
You would have a point if the RTM date for Windows 8 wasn't is in 3 weeks.
It's about the movies, not the series. Please turn in your geek card.
It's not entirely accurate, at least IMO, but it's pretty close:
1) ST:TMP - boring, boring crap
2) Wrath of Khan - probably best ST movie ever, though the bit about a nebula being a short distance from a planet at sublight speed irks me.
3) Search for Spock - underrated IMO, not as good as II and IV but not horrible.
4) Voyage Home - great
5) so horrible that many fans disclaim its existence; William Shatner directed this abomination, but never again directed a major motion picture
6) Undiscovered Country - excellent
7) Generations - big disappointment, though not nearly as bad as ST5
8) First Contact - excellent, great triumph for director Jonathan Frakes (Riker)
9) Insurrection - pretty disappointing, esp. since it was also directed by Frakes and didn't measure up at all to First Contact
10) Nemesis - this is where the trend totally breaks down, because it's even-numbered but it sucked. It had some great visuals and effects (I liked the part about Picard piloting the small Reman ship), but otherwise it was pretty lame. This movie was also a big flop and ended the whole Star Trek movie franchise for a while until it was rebooted with entirely new actors in JJ Abram's movie (and upcoming sequel).
with gmail being the single largest mail service in the world,... nobody wants to put a lot of energy into legacy mail applications any more.
Yes, but we're not talking about just anybody, we're talking about Microsoft here. If anyone wanted to pour enormous amounts of money into projects just to hurt Google, it'd be them. I'm surprised they aren't trying harder on this thing. Sure, you might point to their own competing online mail service, Hotmail, but that thing is doing horribly these days. You'd think they'd want to pour resources into anything that competes with Gmail.
It only lets you set up accounts for Exchange, Hotmail and Gmail right now, but it definitely does support IMAP. If you add a Gmail account to it and then disable POP retrieval it still works. Disable IMAP and it suddenly doesn't. I imagine they will add the option for arbitrary servers before it gets released, but even if they don't it will satisfy 98% of the people that use it (those without Outlook and who don't know what Thunderbird is).
agreed.
my first email was on a vax/vms using one of 3: decmail (ha!), vmsmail or all-in-1 mail. mostly it was vmsmail (what you got from a regular vax account with node::username). I used that for about 6 years (while at DEC) and mail in the 80's and 90's was just fine! it worked, it was fast, it was secure and the only real issues were translation of addresses from public to private internets.
fast forward to the 90's and early 2000 era. I was still using ELM or maybe mutt. it worked, it was fast, it was secure and it was on every system that I used, in every company I was at.
finally, fast forward to the web-age and gmail. I had an early adopter gmail acct (in the invite-only days) and I surely gave gmail enough of a chance. I hated it, got burned by it, had to keep up my adblock-element-hider frequently updated by hand (just to get the UI back to where I wanted it after each google 'upgrade'). it was more work than I wanted and got progressively slower and less responsive as the years went on.
now, I've dumped it. went back to local email (using thunderbird and imap from my own paid isp) and things are as good as they were back when email was still young.
email is not really a complicated thing and it does not need 'advancement'. the funct that I used 20+ yrs ago is what I still use today. I could even still be happy with ELM and an xterm ;) the web-based shit just doesn't impress me and has caused me to reject 'the cloud' for email use.
tl;dr: if its not broke, don't re-invent it! 're-writing email systems' has got to the be the stupidest thing you could do, today!
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
"no lost stuff, no hangs, no delays, no network-reachability issues or timeouts, no ads, no jscript, no worries about blocking and maintenance"
which describes my gmail experience.
With the added bonus I can access it anywhere.
You? you're pretty much a slashdot hipster.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Uh. Any OS or Mail app worth a damn has smart presets.
OS X Mail.app has Gmail as an account type. Select it and all it asks for is your username and password. Done. It's even part of the OS set up.
You can also pick me.com, hotmail, yahoo, Exchange or Advanced (custom).
At no point are you asked for a server or setting for anything but a user and pass, except with Exchange and Advanced.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
This thing has a Vista-rushed-to-market feel about it.
I agree. Every other roll out MS has done was a money grab. 98 should have been 98SE, ME should have been XP. Vista should have been 7. I have been telling people for a year to avoid 8 until it is 8+ or whatever. Of course they would avoid using "+" on anything because it might bring Google to mind... but if history is any gauge 8 will suck so hard you'll need a CRT to avoid screen puckering.
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
You have your opinions, but most Star Trek fans don't share them, as evidenced by reviews and box-office figures. ST1 didn't do that well. ST6 and 8 both did well. ST4 got great reviews and is easily the most popular of all the ST movies.
BTW, there's nothing about watching endless footage of the Enterprise slowly going into a giant cloud, with some wacky 70s sound effects, that "requires you to think". It's just boring.
You? Your pretty much a 'I only use google products' hipster.
Lots of us have many mail accounts, and many/most/all of them are not with Google. A good mail client is invaluable when you use many mail servers.
My tablet is full of WebKit.
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
Using Thunderbird to pull down GMail through IMAP, you get the best of both worlds.
Win8 makes ME, Vista, Clippy, Bob and even GFWL seem like well-thought-out good ideas in comparison.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
It's has been available as a public beta for a few months. I tried it out and hated it.
Thunderbird gets rid of the webmail UI and other bullshit quite nicely.
Portable works great on Windows and backing up the whole program folder to DVD for portable archive love is easy.
If I switch ISPs, no problem.
Cross-platform too.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Adblock doesn't download for offline viewing and backup, or replace the whole web page interface.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Windows 1.0 the Motion Picture: Lame. No support for the V'Ger graphics adaptor.
Windows 2.0 the Wrath of Copy Con: Good. First overlapping windows allows you to hide your ploy to drop Reliant's shields from the superior intellect.
Windows 3.1 the Search for WinSock: Lame. Program manager was clunky, the program group icons were all the same and not configurable. Look at it sideways and it crashed faster than the USS Enterprise on the Genesis planet.
Windows 4 (95) the Voyage to Start: Great. Established a GUI paradigm copied by KDE, Gnome, and many others.
Just fyi, several mail accounts (Gmail, Google accounts mail) can be opened simultaneously in different tabs, in the same browser.
Thanks (and useful in a pinch), but no thanks. I don't want to work like that.
Actually, you get the worst of both worlds. Deleting/moving emails in thunderbird will have unpredictable consecuences in gmail, and you're likely to see the same email in diferent mailboxes (folders in thunderbird, tags in gmail).
You'll see gmail mailboxes as [GMAIL] in thunderbird, and the thunderbird ones in [IMAP], and have plenty more issues.
No, Outlook Express doesn't count...
Why not? it is better than those other two you mentioned.
I don't see that with the Google Apps for Business account I read through TBird at home and webmail when I'm not. There's one extra [GMail] folder in the inbox tree, but once you click it open, it stays open forever.
My GMail tags are interpreted as folders by Thunderbird, and my Thunderbird folders show up as tags in GMail.
I have seen nightmare scenarios with Mega-multi-subfoldered Outlook inbox trees becoming a wall of impenetrable garbage when imported to GMail with the poorly-supported (and non-free!) Google Apps Sync for Outlook plugin. Is that what you're thinking of?
Do you prefer the model where your tablet has a remote code execution exploit triggered by opening a PDF file in the browser from any random website, for several months?
Technically Yahoo supports IMAP on mobile devices BUT not on desktop clients! Even if you are a paying customer.
Lo, what is this? I'm using Tbird to connect to Y! mail via IMAP!
http://ompldr.org/vZXFsYg/Screenshot.png
Obviously, you've been doing something wrong.
--
BMO
I know it's not a popular option around here, but when it comes to e-mail clients, MS Outlook has always been the gold standard as far as I'm concerned.
Life is not for the lazy.
Why did he get modded down? I honestly haven't seen a email client user in the shop in...ohhh...has to be at least 6 years now. Come to think of it I have exactly ONE email client user and that is my 74 year old ex landlady.
While I'm sure there are some here using it, hell I wouldn't be surprised if we have some gopher users here, the consumers just don't use email clients anymore and haven't in years. i know what you are gonna say, that corporate does, but have you SEEN Windows 8? Its a tweeting twitting FB shitting social mess of an OS! Corporate ain't gonna take that crap! besides most corp users are addicted to all the extras in outlook like planning meetings more than the actual email part.
Look we ALL know Win 8 is a half baked "Hail Mary" play by MSFT to grab a hold of some of the mobile sector, the odds of it working are practically nil, and the whole thing has the stench of desperation and failure about it, but that doesn't mean the guy doesn't have a point. Go talk to any 20 something around your local college, ask 'em what email client they use. You'll hear Google or Yahoo, the thought that you mean an actual program to access email won't even cross their minds. Email clients are as dead as Disco Stu's clothes, that is why Moz is walking away from TBird, people just don't use them hardly anymore.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Strangely, I agree with the guy. Although I'd like to add:
ST:TMP -> probably good if you didn't see 2001. It was released over 10 years after 2001 when Star Wars was everywhere and people weren't expecting to see things like 2001.
ST:IV was... corny nostalgia, but I can't argue. It was a very successful film.
ST:Nemesis was an okay remake of ST:The Wrath of Khan, but there are a lot of fans who never got into TOS, so it's forgivable.
ST:TOS has a lot of post-WW2 influence. Particularly in sub warfare. It's strongest in TOS (see Balance of Terror... big racial issues there too), but weakens after TNG, which seems to be mostly influenced by the boring era of cold wars, superpowers, stable politics and diplomacy.