Putting the Raspberry Pi Into Orbit

Why by x181 · 2012-07-13 11:53 · Score: 5, Funny

Why launch one into space when you can't even keep up with demand here on Earth?

Re:Why by novakreo · 2012-07-14 02:45 · Score: 1

From Raspberry Pi distributor element14:

Registration for the Raspberry Pi has now closed. We are currently ensuring that the large number of customers who registered their interest over the final few days of registration have sufficient opportunity to order their Pi, and will be opening to general Raspberry Pi orders mid July.
If you signed up at the launch, you'd have one by now, and if not, you can get one quite soon.

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Thanks. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-13 11:55 · Score: 1

I was hurtin' for another pi article.

Re:Thanks. by TheGratefulNet · 2012-07-13 12:15 · Score: 3, Funny

I'm actually holding out for the cost-reduced version, the banana e.

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Re:Thanks. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-13 12:16 · Score: 1

Now imagine a beowulf cluster of pi articles.
Re:Thanks. by masternerdguy · 2012-07-13 12:20 · Score: 3, Insightful

Indeed, we must have our weekly pi propaganda!

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Re:Thanks. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-13 12:32 · Score: 1

3.1416: Big Sister
Rounding error detected.
Re:Thanks. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-13 12:46 · Score: 1

3.0.
Re:Thanks. by Adriax · 2012-07-13 13:17 · Score: 1

So, Slashdot?

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Re:Thanks. by Black+Parrot · 2012-07-13 13:39 · Score: 1

I was hurtin' for another pi article.
Yeah, but I was kinda hoping to hear how many bitcoins it's gonna to cost.

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Re:Thanks. by SilenceBE · 2012-07-13 18:39 · Score: 1

The funny thing is that I have seen some of the RPI foundation bitching about Slashdot while the latter for months has been advertising and showing propaganda for the rpi like there is no tommorow.

This is rally a non article as it "could" be used in space there is not even something concrete. The continous rpi articles are really begin to get on my nerves.
Re:Thanks. by Hognoxious · 2012-07-14 06:54 · Score: 1

Are there compatible 3D printers? How about bitcoin mining software? Does it run Ruby?

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Home security drone by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-13 12:38 · Score: 1

I have been playing with my Raspberry Pi for a little while now, mostly as a media center and like the way the CEC package works with CEC compatible TV, turns on the TV and you use the TV remote. With all the developing going on, I suspect that before too long I will be able to put together a Raspberry Pi with an ipcam viewer app that can turn on the TV when a proximity switch is activated. I already have an Adroid app for ip cameras that also support TPZ , which could be rewired along with a inexpensive radio controlled, battery powered helicopter with an ip cam mounted and it's possible to have a small personal security drone. A coworker insists it needs a weapon but if worse comes to worse, the helicopter can become the weapon. For home security you do not need much time in the air, just enough to get the license plate numbers ect for the 911 call. Yes you can do it all already with out the Raspberry Pi but not at the same price - that is the key benefit to it all, a system for a few hundred as oppossed to a few thousand dollars.

uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-13 12:47 · Score: 1

Are they launching some space-hardened version? What about the radiation in space?

Re:uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by Osgeld · 2012-07-13 13:36 · Score: 3, Funny

they will use a monster brand hdmi cable, it will be fine
Re:uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by neric · 2012-07-13 14:22 · Score: 1

It is ridiculous to say you could use this for a satellite. Yes, you could throw this up into orbit in a satellite and it would probably work for a little while before radiation issues. If you are buying a multimillion dollar rocket, you can afford to throw down more than $35 for your satellite bus. If you are hitching a free ride on rocket bought by a third-party and just wanted a few day of LEO orbit, then yes Raspberry Pi could be an option. If you have a free ride to space, you might want to spend a few more dollars to guarantee a longer mission life.
Re:uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by Yoda222 · 2012-07-13 20:03 · Score: 1

You probably can't use directly a Raspberry-Pi board in space application (radiation is not the only problem, you also have thermal issues, ...), but using not specificaly space-hardened processors could be possible in a majority/median voter system. But you need to remplace one space hardened processor with a bunch of normal processors, and have a specific electronic for the voter system. And put a shield to lower the radiations.
Re:uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by EdgePenguin · 2012-07-13 23:13 · Score: 1

Radiation in LEO isn't that bad. COTS components don't just die the moment they leave the atmosphere. If every single event upset translated into an actual fault, they wouldn't be very reliable down here on earth either.
Cubesats have flown with COTS hardware - and they have done it through orbits that pass through the south atlantic anomaly. Yes, there are reliability issues - but certainly not showstoppers.
Re:uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by EdgePenguin · 2012-07-13 23:16 · Score: 1

Got any evidence to back that up? Have you actually modeled COTS components in the radiation environment of LEO? I have.
Re:uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by EdgePenguin · 2012-07-13 23:33 · Score: 1

Wrong.
The exceptional point about the Raspberry Pi is that you can get undergraduates to program it well within the timescale of a degree. That team from Leicester University that is mentioned in the article? I'm part of it:
http://edgepenguin.com/content/raspberry.html
One of the issues we had in a previous (abandoned) cubesat project was the difficulty in programming a microcontroller.
Having been part of an attempt to construct a cubesat, I can confidently assert that you are talking BS. Costs for cubesats are in equipment - because most of them are assembled by students who volunteer, and you don't have any labour costs with them. The difference between the cost of a Pi and the previous board we used is not small change. It was about 10% of the launch cost, and the single largest item we purchased before the project was cancelled.
Radiation hardening is an issue - but not one that will kill a mission. This appears to be a mount stupid effect; some people know there is radiation in space, and that it can effect electronics - and therefore jump to "omg any non-hardened chip will day within days! Don't you know anything!?" - despite not knowing the details of how COTS interacts with the LEO radiation environment.
Re:uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by Yoda222 · 2012-07-14 00:04 · Score: 1

Do you have result of tests or calculations somewhere ? I'm interrested in such stuff even if it's not close to my job anymore. I've seen a lot of stuff about space designed components but no test or calculations "regular" COTS. (just for reference, for spacecraft on a ~50 inclined orbit arround 1000km altitude, we got (in prediction and in real life) around 70 EDAC a day (with maybe 90% in the SAA, I may be able to find a plot of this) in a 4Mo memory. (the calculated double error rate, taking in account that we were scrubbing the full RAM in less than 10 seconds was negligeable) I don't remember of the expected error rate on the proc (erc32) but it was negligible too.
Re:uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by EdgePenguin · 2012-07-14 01:01 · Score: 1

Don't have them to hand, but we were modelling a much lower orbit (few hundred kms) which makes a big difference for radiation. We look at COTS survivability for a year, at 45 degree inclination, and found it good enough for student work :)
Re:uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by EdgePenguin · 2012-07-14 05:10 · Score: 1

Wrong guess about the board, and wrong about everything else too. No wonder you are posting as AC. We have investigated the use of phones for this application before (because we are not stupid) but found several problems.
I'm not going to get into this because you seem like a troll, and it probably isn't worth my time engaging with someone using anonymity to snarl at someone across the Internet. Bye.
Re:uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by EdgePenguin · 2012-07-14 05:20 · Score: 1

Why can't you use Raspberry Pi (or other COTS electronics) in space? Just because radiation and heat are issues, does not mean they are automatically terminal issues.
Re:uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by Yoda222 · 2012-07-14 06:19 · Score: 1
I see several potential problems.
- You will probably need to add a thermal regulation system on the board
- Memory (and OS) is on a mobile SD card. Lauch may be a problem
- A lot of other stuff on this board could have troubles during launch (connectors like usb, ethernet, and power plug, audio, hdmi, RCA) You don't really want a connector orbiting alone in your box
- there is not a lot of mounting points
Of course you could buy the card, remove some connectors, drill holes yourself, sold the SD card, add some thermal conductor but is it still the "Raspberry Pi" ?
I really think that we could use COTS electronics in space (procs, soc, ...), but not all cots electronics. A design close to this board could be used, with almost the same components, but I really think the board itself has to be adapted. List all unneeded stuff (network, audio, video, rca), keep other stuffs (usb, if you want tu plug something using usb), and design your pcb, based on the original design.
Get everything sold by the pcb manufacturer or an assembler. Of course this makes the board 10-20 times the price of the original (if you include some test boards). When you get a good project, contact Raspberry Pi Fundation and says Hey we have a good marketing for you, are you interested in this ? Could you sponsor us ? and get some money to compensate for the difference. Put a powered by Raspberry Pi on the launcher. (ok as a additional payload you probably don't have access to the fun advertisement on the launcher)
The "raw" Raspberry Pi board could be ok. But I think it worth the cost to made this changes.
Re:uh, won't it have lots of errors in space? by EdgePenguin · 2012-07-14 07:59 · Score: 1

It isn't that hard to design a system that is passively thermal managed, for a realistic range of spin rates.
The mounting points is a serious stumbling block; certainly moreso than radiation or temperature. Launch vehicles that don't have squishy human payloads aren't shy about peaking at 15Gs (SD cards can and should be glued in place. We already investigated this.) I never did mechanical design - but unless I hear otherwise I wouldn't consider it a fatal problem. If thermal and mounting do become really problematic - then yes, it might be worth creating a flight board. The only advantage then is the familiarity of the platform - but having tried to get undergraduates to program a microcontroller for the last project, that is likely a big advantage.
Power is an issue. A 1U cubesat can expect about 2W continuous, about half of which you lose straight away charging the batteries that keep you alive during eclipse. At a push you can put it into a lower power mode for eclipse, so long as that doesn't compromise your science goals. Most likely the Pi is going to fly in a 3U satellite.
It is a big technical challenge, but the nice thing is that you get a technical continuum between first learning to code at school, through to simpler projects such as robots and balloons - and then to a space project. All under the same architecture. Whilst it not ultimately be the best space hardware, its a pretty good teaching tool.

Re:Maybe this is a little late to say by tbird81 · 2012-07-13 13:19 · Score: 2

I'm going to admit how stupid I am.

I have heard the Raspberry Pi mentioned dozens of times on Slashdot. I looked at their website, checked out their logo competition.

It's only with your comment about porn that I've realise it's a pun for "Raspberry PIE". I think because I only ever read (rather than heard) it, I just took it a face value.

Thanks AC.

Re:Keep it up slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-13 13:37 · Score: 1

Nobody is paying 500k for slashdot...

Re:So many bitter slashdot readers by docmordin · 2012-07-13 13:53 · Score: 2

Part of the issue is the frequency of the posted Raspberry Pi stories that annoys others, let alone myself. The other is that, while it's a nice, little piece of equipment, it's nothing special: anyone that has gone through a decent electrical/computer engineering program should be more than capable of laying out a similar PCB, within the span of a month or two; after that point, ordering the parts and having them mounted is trivial.

Re:So many bitter slashdot readers by MightyMartian · 2012-07-13 13:54 · Score: 1

The problem is you can't buy it and most of these articles are empty pointless slashvertisements. I swear, if someone stuck one up their ass, you'd have an article on /. In an hour talking about colonoscopy applications for the Rasperry Pi.

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Re:Maybe this is a little late to say by k(wi)r(kipedia) · 2012-07-13 14:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

I suspect it's also a pun on Apple (Raspberry) and its line of i-Devices (Pi rhymes with i).

Re:So many bitter slashdot readers by ThePeices · 2012-07-13 14:07 · Score: 1

You are right, you cant buy it....well, erm, except for when I bought one and have been using it for weeks. And a few of my colleagues have bought some too.

So yeah, you cant buy them, except for when you...um, can...buy them.

Re:So many bitter slashdot readers by Darkness404 · 2012-07-13 14:12 · Score: 1

The problem with the PI and nearly every other promising F/OSS device that wants to be cheap is that you can't buy it. All of their "official distributors" say they're out of stock and the next shipment will happen "very soon". I wouldn't mind more Raspberry Pi articles if you could actually buy it and use it, but you can't. By the time the next available shipment arrives and those that have pre-ordered it receive their Pi, there will be something better.

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Re:Maybe this is a little late to say by drooling-dog · 2012-07-13 14:13 · Score: 4, Funny

Oh lordy, here come the trademark lawyers...

Re:So many bitter slashdot readers by CockMonster · 2012-07-13 14:15 · Score: 1

You're the lucky one. Most people are on a waiting list for several months now

Re:So many bitter slashdot readers by Darkness404 · 2012-07-13 14:21 · Score: 2

Yes, you can buy them if you were incredibly lucky. Myself? I've been stuck on a waiting list for a couple of months now.

This is the problem with F/OSS hardware projects, you can either take the gamble and pre-order way in advance in hopes of avoiding the delay but take the risk that the project will never materialize at all or may completely change its goals, or you wait and it takes 3-4 months before you get your product, and by that time, something else will have come out.

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This was inevitable by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-13 14:29 · Score: 2, Informative

Because everyone does it these days. Every other university has a student "space exploration interest club" who launch a helium balloon to "near" space, snap a picture and recover their "satellite". Google launched 7 such balloons with a bunch of Android phones onboard to prove that "Android works in space", and the iPad pouch creators launched one to show how their pouch/case protects your iPad in the event of it accidentally falling from space. A couple of years ago it was "it can run your toaster", now it's "it works in space", everyone does it. Two questions asked of *every* new device out there: Will it blend? Will it work in space?

The really creative folks launch chairs into space (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hSDbAo2WMk&feature=player_embedded -- where's safety?) or a tent with people inside.

Not to mention temperature extremes, overheating by wisebabo · 2012-07-13 16:05 · Score: 2

... of components due to lack of air (and gravity!) for convection cooling. I think that these are not the same things (although they are related) the sunlit side of the satellite could be a toasty 100 degrees C, while the dark side could be -100. If the satellite is spinning but not fast enough perhaps some traces could expand and contract enough to break. Meanwhile without air to conduct heat, a single small component on the board could overheat and fail.

I think the Russians (at least in the early days), put their electronics in pressured boxes with fans to stir the air. The Americans developed space (vacuum) ready components and designs from the get go.

Re:So many bitter slashdot readers by Microlith · 2012-07-13 17:49 · Score: 1

I wouldn't mind more Raspberry Pi articles if you could actually buy it and use it, but you can't.

You can. It's just backordered to hell and gone now.

By the time the next available shipment arrives and those that have pre-ordered it receive their Pi, there will be something better.

I ordered in March, my preorder arrived in June. So ~3 months, with delays. Of course, the delay might have increased significantly since due to demand.

Re:So many bitter slashdot readers by Rebelgecko · 2012-07-13 18:40 · Score: 1

I don't think they even took preorders. I ordered mine a day or two after it went up on sale and I've had it for a few weeks

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Try this by kaarigar · 2012-07-13 18:46 · Score: 2

Put this Raspebrry Pi in my hands.

I'm sure people will do lots of interesting things by Lord+Kano · 2012-07-13 19:01 · Score: 1

WHEN THEY ACTUALLY SELL THE FUCKING THINGS TO PEOPLE

Maybe when I can order one and have it at my house in less than 6 months, then I'll give a fuck about what you can do with them. This may as well be one of the million other vaporware products that were always impossible to get.

LK

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Mechanical issues by Catmeat · 2012-07-13 19:36 · Score: 1

I wonder how they plan to hold it down, given that the Pi board's lack of mounting holes is something of an annoying fail. There's not even much space on the edge of the board to clamp it, which seems to have created an interesting challenge to those now making Pi-cases. Although in this application, I assume most of the connectors would be removed, giving a bit more spare board-area.

Re:Mechanical issues by psergiu · 2012-07-13 20:03 · Score: 1

Sugru. Lots of it :)

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Re:Mechanical issues by TheGratefulNet · 2012-07-14 00:22 · Score: 1

I bought a logic analyser (open source hw+sw) for $50 and while it was very cheap, the developers also forgot to include mounting holes!
what is it with very smart people who forget obvious stuff like this? uh, did you even think that anyone would care to have standoffs and screws and a case? no? really?? duct tape for the lot of us? that how it goes?
sigh. pcb design has a lot of details (I do it, part time, myself) but please folks, don't forget obvious things like HOW TO MOUNT the damned board. also, include test points and actual contacts, not just pads. vertical points where you could plug in a connector and do testing. no one likes it when their probe slips during testing! please designers, include some test points with clip points or posts that mate with test jig connectors. put leds on the board for test. put some option jumpers there, too.
design for use! duh. (sorry for the rant but today's pcb makers seem to forget really obvious things and I am at a loss to understand why)

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Re:Mechanical issues by jon3k · 2012-07-14 01:50 · Score: 1

I'm sure they'll build a case with a method of mounting.

Re:Maybe this is a little late to say by maxwell+demon · 2012-07-13 23:10 · Score: 1

While I quickly recognized that "Pi" sounds like "Pie", the only association I have with that is something to eat. I still can't see the connection to porn.
However I wonder if Raspberry Pi are squared. :-)

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Re:So many bitter slashdot readers by TheRaven64 · 2012-07-13 23:17 · Score: 1

Are you basing that on some actual data, or just the whining of people on Slashdot? I know someone who had his third delivered a couple of weeks ago, and he didn't order it until after his first had arrived, so the delays can't be that huge...

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Re:Maybe this is a little late to say by jones_supa · 2012-07-13 23:20 · Score: 1

The buzz around Raspberry Pi has made me several times think about raspberry pie and grabbing one from the supermarket. I'll try to remember next time, it would be great with coffee.

Not again by Yvan256 · 2012-07-14 04:36 · Score: 1

Another Raspberry Pi article! Where are the Arduino news?

Re:So many bitter slashdot readers by docmordin · 2012-07-14 04:40 · Score: 1

Well, why don't you go ahead and make one then, and then try hand-soldering those tiny SoC connectors.

Anyone who has spent a modicum of time doing PCB design would know that many, if not most, PCB manufacturers will either install surface mount components or have the board shipped off to a partnering assembly company for an incredibly small fee (anywhere from $15 USD to $0.04 USD per 2-sided board, depending on the run size/number of unique parts). Why you would suggest hand-soldering components is beyond me.

Touching on your other point, nothing in my original post should suggest that I want to spend time designing my own Raspberry Pi knockoff; the fact that you propose doing so is rather nonsensical. Moreover, even when I was just an S.B./M.Eng. EECS student, I designed much more complex systems/PCBs than the Raspberry Pi; I'm sure plenty of other engineering students have too for their undergraduate theses.

Also, as an aside, there are plenty of "better" development boards available than the Raspberry Pi. Take, for example, the ODROID-X (http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G133999328931), which comes with a 1.4 GHz quad-core ARM Cortex-A9, a quad-core ARM Mali-400 GPU, 1 GB of LP-DDR2 RAM, and much more, all for $129 USD.

Re:Not to mention temperature extremes, overheatin by EdgePenguin · 2012-07-14 05:18 · Score: 1

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Yes, thermal control is a problem. No, it is not a showstopper that stops you using COTS electronics in space.

Re:I'm sure people will do lots of interesting thi by Lord+Kano · 2012-07-14 13:27 · Score: 1

I don't do pre-orders. If someone doesn't have the item that I want in stock, I won't order.
If I can't have it in 3 days, I don't order.

I'm just getting really sick of these slashvertisements. If it's not in stock anywhere, it's vapor.

LK

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Re:So many bitter slashdot readers by caution+live+frogs · 2012-07-14 17:27 · Score: 1

Also, as an aside, there are plenty of "better" development boards available than the Raspberry Pi. Take, for example, the ODROID-X (http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G133999328931), which comes with a 1.4 GHz quad-core ARM Cortex-A9, a quad-core ARM Mali-400 GPU, 1 GB of LP-DDR2 RAM, and much more, all for $129 USD.

Yeah, but I only spent $35. Tell me how to convince my wife it's worth spending another hundred bucks for a tiny computer I can play around with... Not going to happen. But for $35, she doesn't care. My order is actually shipping right now. The point was to create something nearly anyone could afford and toy with. They did it, hence the interest.

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Putting the Raspberry Pi Into Orbit

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