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Australian Consumer Group Wants Geo-IP Blocking Banned
daria42 writes "Live outside the US? Then you're probably used to being blocked from watching Hulu, frustrated by not being able to buy the eBooks you want from Amazon and most of all, annoyed about paying significantly higher prices than Americans for exactly the same software, games and content online, all based on your IP address. This week Australian consumer group Choice called for an Australian ban on geo-IP-blocking, saying it created significant barriers to the free flow of goods and services. Maybe other countries' consumer groups should follow suit, in the quest for a fair go?"
We have it soooo good here !!
There is a free world-market for multinationals but still a higly localized and bordered market for consumers buying the products from the multinationals. It's about time this gets fixed.
If trousers are less expensive in the US, why is it illegal for me to import them to the EU and sell them in masses?
I was banned from the streaming archive of my home country's tv channel.
It's completely nonsense because no one but the people born there would watch their drama, news etc overseas.
It won't help, when the exact thing they are complaining about is what businesses *in other countries* are doing.
Hmmmm. Leftists in favor of free trade.
Well, it's about time.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
What about online voting?
The content that's on Hulu is also on TPB. The only thing that I'm blocked from is paying for it.
Fat chance though, all the effort going into SOPA/ACTA/PIPA whatever is to prevent open markets and free trade.
It just gets harder to sue people across international borders when they take that precise IP and start spreading it around.
Kim got raided but usually it's just enough to send a vague threat letter to get people to fork over some cash to the RIAA.
Sig. Sig. Sputnik
I don't care, I download my ebooks,music, films and series from torrents and eMule. This has the advantage that I can read the ebooks on both my phone and my tablet and share them with someone else without havving to deal with DRM, and watch my video without being pestered with unskippable commercials or warnings from foreign police organizations like the FBI. And The Pirate Bay does not do any geoblocking.
Well, I endorse the intent of this, but the main reason the free flow of digital goods is blocked by region is because of the balkanized licensing of media. Geo-IP blocking is a consequence of this, not a cause of it.
If you want global viewing of content or global distribution of software, then the balkanization is the problem. For media such as movies and music, the solution would involve getting rid of local licensing and extortion by local media groups - good luck with that. For software, there are language and legal issues which differ from country to country, and a software maker may prefer to have these handled by a "distributor/importer" who gouges the consumer. In some cases, the "importer/distributor" is actually a local subsidiary of the overseas supplier, but still adds extra cost.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
To me, there are two issues here: 1. Being blocked from content and 2. Seeing different prices based on your location.
In all likelihood the reason people are (generally) blocked from seeing content is due to export and/or copyright restrictions, and if that is the case, well then it doesn't just apply to the internet. Why should I be able to buy something online that I can't order over the phone, simply because online the retailer can't tell where I'm at?
As far as different pricing goes, it's not fair to say that this only applies to (that things are less expensive in) the US. I remember when I was in college there was a huge controversy over buying cheap, export versions of textbooks. Why pay $125 for that engineering text when you can get a softbound Indian copy for $30?
Bottom line - none of these things are limited to the internet, so it's more of a political issue than an IP one.
While not really explained by the summary, the key issue is local business shielding the international businesses.
So for example (hypothetically), I want to order to something from Nike US because the product is not available in Australia - but I continually get re-directed back to the Australian store (and just have the US store completely blocked) ... annoying and they lose my business.
BUt more importantly for them, it is a way of forcing me to purchase at local prices form local distributors rather than international.
It is a way introduce artificial barriers and price selectively in certain regions - Australian being the one in this case.
Interestingly, some businesses without a local presence, or just introducing one, actively encourage international shipping with special shipping arragenements - such as Amazon, GAP and a few others.
it created significant barriers to the free flow of goods and services
If a government or another 3rd entity is implementing the block, then it's a barrier between Hulu/Amazon and you. If Hulu blocks you for whatever reason, it's just them refusing to serve you.
In the case of ad-supported TV, it kinda doesn't make sense for Hulu to show you ads for stuff you won't buy. Or am I missing something? As for Amazon, it's plainly their loss.
This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
This is one of those areas where you can see what the so-called "free marketeers" really think. If you *really* believe in the free market, IP blocking, region codes, etc. should be right out because when it comes down to brass tacks they are simply artificial price controls on a marketplace that no longer have natural time and space restrictions in place. As usual it isn't about core beliefs, it's about what gets the most money in their fat hands.
If they want the world to be "free market" they need to stop being hypocritical and take the good with the bad. You can't go running to big brother every time it doesn't go your way and the outcome of your philosophy doesn't match up with what your perfect world looks like.
Yeah, I know it is way too much to ask.
Companies love to talk about free markets, but they hate to operate on them. Free to them means not the free flow of goods and services, it means the freedom to do whatever they like.
Steam for instance, topical, even has two tiers for europe; western and eastern, with different prices and catalogues. Imagine if they had two tiers for the US! If I go to Steam this very minute, in their "Flash Sale" there are four games listed. Well, normally. Currently one of the boxes say "We're sorry. This game is not available in your region".
They're allowed to produce products whereever in the world it's the cheapest for them -- which is fine -- HOWEVER they are then ALLOWED to segment markets so that consumers can't enjoy the same freedoms. Politicians bend over to give corps the legal tools to enforce these arbitrary restrictions on trade. Is it any wonder that we revile them?
Sorry for the ranting, but I don't have time to rewrite.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Australia's government will probably reject this. Geographic IP blocking is already necessary to protect Australians from being able to buy video games that Australia has not classified for elements objectionable to parents.
One of the dumbest solutions to the problem I have ever heard. If you make it illegal for iTunes to not sell something they sell in the US in Australia then if they can't license it for Aus they'll just have to remove it for everyone; sounds cunning. Except, a company that doesn't sell in Australia at all can't be sued, and certainly couldn't be pursued, for not allowing Australians to use their site. Netflix would shut up the Aus office and a new company AusFlix founded by them would service the Aus market.
Now if they said that you couldn't be prosecuted for pirating something that can't be bought within Australia after release, or x months from release, it would solve the issue. Can't buy a tv show? No problem, you can download it for free from the hundreds of services that would pop up to provide it.
If Hulu blocks you for whatever reason, it's just them refusing to serve you.
Say Microsoft is implementing the block because the government has informed Microsoft that allowing Australians to buy certain applications would violate Australian law. Who would be responsible for the block in this case?
It's easy enough for non-Oz companies to set up separate Oz and non-Oz subsidiaries to handle Oz and non-Oz business, then have the non-Oz companies keep using geographic IP-based blocking.
Now, if the goal is to create an even playing field WITHIN Oz, well, it's their country, they can enact and enforce such a law if they want to.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
For once it's not blame Canada!, it's blame USA!
What makes them think things should always be the same price, everywhere?
Sure, we're talking about essentially the same thing, but there's a reason why things cost different amounts in various places. Avacadoes are cheaper during avacado season, and cherries/apples/pears/etc. during their respective seasons. They're cheaper near where they are grown. Sometimes, they're not even available due to lack of demand.
It's simple economics. There's little/no reason why globally universal prices should be in place - it's an asinine idea.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Go out and purchase a VPS hosted in the data center of your choice in the country of your choice.
I do this currently, granted it is not to get around GEO IP Blocking, rather for a centrally hosted box I can connect my roaming devices to via VPN and route all my traffic through it.
I like the BBC, and yes I could go TPB route if I wanted, I can also pay $10 a month for a VPS hosted in a data center in the UK, which would allow me to watch BBC streamed programs without having to wait for them to show up on BBC America. That, and well, who needs ATT/Verizon/whomever snooping on your traffic and profiting from it..
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
Their government can just set up a bunch of proxies... or put up some torrents
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
While I also dislike geoip blocking I think that we can fight them much more effectively by technological means (like proxies) than by further regulation of the Internet.
I hate how I can't access some sites, pay more for some services (eg steam, adobe) or get inferior counterparts eg (low quality steams).
This would kinda screw up agreements where IP isnt licensed for use in Australia or say censored/not released here yet but it would sure make a lot of Australians happy.
If my product I should be able to price is anyway I want. If you don't like the way its priced buy a different product.
it's for corporations. The bigger, the more free.
(Due to legislation in your geographical area that requires us not to block users in certain geographical areas based on their apparent geographical area, we cannot host or advertise our services in your geographical area and this comment is thus not available in your geographical area. We are sorry for the inconvenience and redundancy.)
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Now, if they'll band this in the UK, I'll be able to watch Dr. Who on BBC's website, instead of having to search it out on a more "questionable" site. (/wishful-thinking)
This is exactly why I rent a server in the US which beyond hosting my website, conveniently saves me a good chunk of money using it as a proxy when i shop online. In the time of Internet, electronic borders do not always make a lot of sense.
Why? Because US laws on the internet insist that they apply abroad over the internet.
All those porn sites that ask if you're over 18 because it would be illegal for someone underage to enter.
How do they manage that?
Oh, that's right, they ask that the person buying it be obeying the law.
Maybe they could do the same here.
Maybe if they're an internet company, they need to buy a license for distribution in the inherently international internet.
The people trying to legislate it don't get it. You can't legislate what happens in someone else's country. If you want what is in that country then you may need to move there.
One work-around that already exists is to hire an American or other foreign "personal shopper". You can also access sites directly through a US based proxy server. But even if you get access to the blocked site that doesn't mean the retailer will ship to your Australian address or accept your Australian currency, credit card, etc.. Again, the personal shopper becomes the solution. They can even package and consolidate multiple orders from multiple businesses as one single shipment to save on transportation costs.
The world is chock full of content. If somebody doesn't like selling to you or a group you belong to, perhaps it would be in your interest to react and take your business elsewhere. Don't enable such suckers. Say no to abuse!
Fuck Hulu, goto http://vodo.net/film/allfilms
Fuck Amazon, goto http://gutenberg.org/
Naturally, the Aussies may make special exceptions when they want to keep their citizens from accessing specific US sites.
It's not merely "specific US sites", unless you're counting every online store that sells motion pictures or video games whose publisher hasn't paid off the Australian Classification Board as "specific US sites".
I'm not talking about games that would be rated R18. I'm talking about games whose (smaller) publishers have not paid the Australian Classification Board to rate them, even if they would have ended up rated G or PG.
I live in Toronto and was have the same problem with geo blocking stuff, just more annoying because we are literally right beside them and we still get blockled. I bought a VPS and was using it for a while but it was too slow, now im using this DNS service that unblocks sites like Hulu or Netflix but uses your own connection so its actually fast. There are a few different services like this but im using Blockless.com, im 5 days into the free trial and its been a pretty smooth ride with only a few hiccups. I highly recommend that anyone here with the similar frustrations should check it out, if you can get your hands on a US credit card you can sign up for Netflix and use that as well.
I'm not talking about games that would be rated R18. I'm talking about games whose (smaller) publishers have not paid the Australian Classification Board to rate them, even if they would have ended up rated G or PG.
The article is also, not talking about these games.
Why does the latest Gears of Bore or Call of Halo cost 3 to 4 times as much in Australia, legally sold from Australian retail stores under Australian laws WITH AUSTRALIAN RATINGS than the exact same games in Europe or the United States (which it is 100% LEGAL TO IMPORT).
But nice try to dance around the point of price disparity for exactly the same product and grasp upon ideas that are not only horribly out of date but also incorrect (the laws do not prohibit importing of "non classified" or "have not paid the classification board", they only prohibit SPECIFIC banned items of which there is a clear, well published and well defined list, wikipedia can help you here).
As I said, nice try to get away from the point but what bearing does this bit of superfluous and wrong information have to do with the fact games for Australian customers ARE MANY TIMES THE PRICE OF OTHER COUNTRIES.
Do you get the piont, yes I know you're a bit slow on the uptake but I've put them in bold and CAPITAL LETTERS.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
This law would benefit Australians in no way whatsoever that I can see (OK, it might a little if the blocking is between .au states and territories). Aussies that are subject to geo-blocking would be that way because a server in another country is doing the blocking (eg the US) and strangely, the US isn't subject to Australian law.
A lot of the exclusivity agreements which require geoblocking be put in place are illegal under various free-trade laws.
I've pointed this out to several american vendors whose resellers in the EU were asking $STUPIDMONEY and seen them establish second supply chains in short order. Unsurprisingly, prices then come down to merely $SILLYMONEY
Setting aside if it is moral or not for companies to do this. This law is impracticable. Australia doesn't have jurisdiction for companies outside of their borders. This would be like them trying to pass a law saying all online stores have to provide free shipping to Australia. There is no reason for most companies to pay attention to laws in Australia if they aren't based there.
It could be structured so it will affect companies that have any presence in Australia, but it will probably result in more companies pulling out of Australia or deciding not to expand into Australia instead of stopping them from blocking based on geo-ip.
You want to pass a law in Australia banning a foreign company, over whom you have no jurisdiction, from banning users from your country.
Good luck with that.
Liberty in your lifetime
Oh yes, because as everyone knows, passing a law in Australia causes other countries to follow it. Seriously? They think they can pass a bill in their country that forces an American company like Hulu to obey it and start streaming to Australia? Apparently they don't know how the world works. Now if they meant it would only effect things the opposite direction, well Australia doesn't really sell anything significant to outside countries that's geoblocked so it'd be pretty darn pointless.
Don't get your hopes up, given that the Aussie government has been active in helping the Assange* persecution.
Though as a USian, I have to point out I don't think they've yet joined in our extra-judicial citizen-killing.
* - Yes, he's kind of a dick; doesn't justify meddling in the rights and justice systems of three sovereign countries.
Really, TOTAL BS. If you live outside the US, you have multiple sites to get content FAR and beyond Hulu, The Chinese have the total lock on free ebooks. they could not care less if Amazon was down for a few weeks. They have it all already. This is a total slow news day. Inside the united states we only get a small taste of what is available, because of DMCA, we dont hear a lot about it, but if you can read Ara bic...you have a WEALTH of information at your fingertips.
Get a proxy or VPN account with a US provider. Hire a remailing service in New Hampshire. (one that gives a street address, not box number address) Get a US based Visa debit card.
Join the Virtual US!
YMMV, and you then must pay the shipping at consumer rates for hard goods, and then customs and import duties as required, and any local regional taxes on purchased materials above customs and duties fees, for example in Washington State we have a "use tax" on goods purchased out of state and brought into the state.
Compare cost to cost purchasing locally. Save? Woo Hoo!!! Lost money, welcome to the free market!
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
Canada sufferes from much of the same non-sense. The Supreme Court of Canada recently released a large decision on copy rights in Canada which included technology neutrality. Beyond Users Rights: Supreme Court Entrenches Technological Neutrality as a New Copyright Principle I have to wonder if this decision can be applied in this case. If a book is sold in Canada in it's hard form for example can it be blocked in it 'E' form? If I can walk across the border and bring back a movie can I be stopped from bringing it across over the internet? Many possibilities.
First time I ever encountered IP blocking was attempting to go to Australian & New Zealand Websites from my location in the US. Admittedly, it was a few years ago...
Choice argues that THE WHOLE CONCEPT of location based rights-to-distribute is fundamentally retarded in the sense that IN PRACTICE it DECREASES PRODUCT SALES.
Yes, in theory the plan is that Distributor X acquires (usually purchases, by up front payment or otherwise) EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS to handle ALL sales of Vendor Y products in a specified region.
In Reality Distributor X:
(a) now has a monopoly , and subsequently goes out of their way to SCREW THE CUSTOMER
(b) almost *never* actually distributes ALL of the products of Vendor Y (forcing prospective customers to pursue copyright infringement)
BOTH of these actions ACTIVELY DECREASE SALES VOLUMES.
Choice argues that THE WHOLE CONCEPT of location based rights-to-distribute is fundamentally retarded in the sense that IN PRACTICE it DECREASES PRODUCT SALES. Yes, in theory the plan is that Distributor X acquires (usually purchases, by up front payment or otherwise) EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS to handle ALL sales of Vendor Y products in a specified region. In Reality Distributor X: (a) now has a monopoly , and subsequently goes out of their way to SCREW THE CUSTOMER (b) almost *never* actually distributes ALL of the products of Vendor Y (forcing prospective customers to pursue copyright infringement) BOTH of these actions ACTIVELY DECREASE SALES VOLUMES.
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
A number of people appear to be under the misunderstanding that this is about licensing however that is incorrect. The simple issue is that this is about companies charging more because they can.
If I buy a book from a web site in the US from an authorised distributor then it is a legitimate purchase, that is the point of parallel import laws in Australia.
These restrictions are attempts to block the use of parallel import channels because it reduces their profit margin.
Vodo uses BitTorrent to distribute. That rules it out for those of us in the "ass-reaming bandwidth costs" part of the world. I pay $2 per GB after the first 50GB in a month thanks very much.
(Next time you complain about 250GB or 1TB bandwidth caps, just give it up in advance - you'll get no sympathy from us).
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
Australia has a higher rate of piracy than most nations.
Australia pays 50% - 150% higher prices for digital goods than most nations.
Coincidence?
I think not...
This issue is a non-issue, just use a proxy server. It's not rocket science, if you can download a song you an proxy your internet connection. There are plenty of free proxy servers you can use out there. Google it!!!
This will only be an issue for people in places like Iran, Syria, China, or North Korea. If you are from one of the mentioned countries no worries. You have been reported to the computer, please stay where you are, we will come by shortly with a euthanizeing care package. ;D
I pay 10c per MB after the first 16GB in a month. So I win.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Is that on a mobile phone, or are your landlines that expensive?
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
I live in the Adelaide Hills and it is a mobile broadband only plan. It is essentially $79.90 for 16GB then 10c per MB up to $99.90 and from that point I can buy blocks of usage at around $20 per GB. Usage is counted in both directions. There are other mobile broadband plans but many of those do not work wee as I get a marginal signal.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Yes, use a fast proxy and be done with it. Why all the hoopla ?
You're complaining about a mobile broadband plan with 16GB for $80? Hell, for mobile broadband I get 1GB for $60. $80 you'd be lucky if you got 2GB.
Defeated once more.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
where in the world are you?
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
A couple of hundred kilometres to your south-east. Yes, New Zealand really is that backwards.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
I had no idea NZ was that bad. Before I moved here I had cable and I so miss it.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.