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Australian Consumer Group Wants Geo-IP Blocking Banned
daria42 writes "Live outside the US? Then you're probably used to being blocked from watching Hulu, frustrated by not being able to buy the eBooks you want from Amazon and most of all, annoyed about paying significantly higher prices than Americans for exactly the same software, games and content online, all based on your IP address. This week Australian consumer group Choice called for an Australian ban on geo-IP-blocking, saying it created significant barriers to the free flow of goods and services. Maybe other countries' consumer groups should follow suit, in the quest for a fair go?"
We have it soooo good here !!
There is a free world-market for multinationals but still a higly localized and bordered market for consumers buying the products from the multinationals. It's about time this gets fixed.
If trousers are less expensive in the US, why is it illegal for me to import them to the EU and sell them in masses?
It won't help, when the exact thing they are complaining about is what businesses *in other countries* are doing.
The content that's on Hulu is also on TPB. The only thing that I'm blocked from is paying for it.
Fat chance though, all the effort going into SOPA/ACTA/PIPA whatever is to prevent open markets and free trade.
It just gets harder to sue people across international borders when they take that precise IP and start spreading it around.
Kim got raided but usually it's just enough to send a vague threat letter to get people to fork over some cash to the RIAA.
Sig. Sig. Sputnik
I don't care, I download my ebooks,music, films and series from torrents and eMule. This has the advantage that I can read the ebooks on both my phone and my tablet and share them with someone else without havving to deal with DRM, and watch my video without being pestered with unskippable commercials or warnings from foreign police organizations like the FBI. And The Pirate Bay does not do any geoblocking.
Well, I endorse the intent of this, but the main reason the free flow of digital goods is blocked by region is because of the balkanized licensing of media. Geo-IP blocking is a consequence of this, not a cause of it.
If you want global viewing of content or global distribution of software, then the balkanization is the problem. For media such as movies and music, the solution would involve getting rid of local licensing and extortion by local media groups - good luck with that. For software, there are language and legal issues which differ from country to country, and a software maker may prefer to have these handled by a "distributor/importer" who gouges the consumer. In some cases, the "importer/distributor" is actually a local subsidiary of the overseas supplier, but still adds extra cost.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
While not really explained by the summary, the key issue is local business shielding the international businesses.
So for example (hypothetically), I want to order to something from Nike US because the product is not available in Australia - but I continually get re-directed back to the Australian store (and just have the US store completely blocked) ... annoying and they lose my business.
BUt more importantly for them, it is a way of forcing me to purchase at local prices form local distributors rather than international.
It is a way introduce artificial barriers and price selectively in certain regions - Australian being the one in this case.
Interestingly, some businesses without a local presence, or just introducing one, actively encourage international shipping with special shipping arragenements - such as Amazon, GAP and a few others.
it created significant barriers to the free flow of goods and services
If a government or another 3rd entity is implementing the block, then it's a barrier between Hulu/Amazon and you. If Hulu blocks you for whatever reason, it's just them refusing to serve you.
In the case of ad-supported TV, it kinda doesn't make sense for Hulu to show you ads for stuff you won't buy. Or am I missing something? As for Amazon, it's plainly their loss.
This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
This is one of those areas where you can see what the so-called "free marketeers" really think. If you *really* believe in the free market, IP blocking, region codes, etc. should be right out because when it comes down to brass tacks they are simply artificial price controls on a marketplace that no longer have natural time and space restrictions in place. As usual it isn't about core beliefs, it's about what gets the most money in their fat hands.
If they want the world to be "free market" they need to stop being hypocritical and take the good with the bad. You can't go running to big brother every time it doesn't go your way and the outcome of your philosophy doesn't match up with what your perfect world looks like.
Yeah, I know it is way too much to ask.
Companies love to talk about free markets, but they hate to operate on them. Free to them means not the free flow of goods and services, it means the freedom to do whatever they like.
Steam for instance, topical, even has two tiers for europe; western and eastern, with different prices and catalogues. Imagine if they had two tiers for the US! If I go to Steam this very minute, in their "Flash Sale" there are four games listed. Well, normally. Currently one of the boxes say "We're sorry. This game is not available in your region".
They're allowed to produce products whereever in the world it's the cheapest for them -- which is fine -- HOWEVER they are then ALLOWED to segment markets so that consumers can't enjoy the same freedoms. Politicians bend over to give corps the legal tools to enforce these arbitrary restrictions on trade. Is it any wonder that we revile them?
Sorry for the ranting, but I don't have time to rewrite.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Australia's government will probably reject this. Geographic IP blocking is already necessary to protect Australians from being able to buy video games that Australia has not classified for elements objectionable to parents.
One of the dumbest solutions to the problem I have ever heard. If you make it illegal for iTunes to not sell something they sell in the US in Australia then if they can't license it for Aus they'll just have to remove it for everyone; sounds cunning. Except, a company that doesn't sell in Australia at all can't be sued, and certainly couldn't be pursued, for not allowing Australians to use their site. Netflix would shut up the Aus office and a new company AusFlix founded by them would service the Aus market.
Now if they said that you couldn't be prosecuted for pirating something that can't be bought within Australia after release, or x months from release, it would solve the issue. Can't buy a tv show? No problem, you can download it for free from the hundreds of services that would pop up to provide it.
They only like free trade for intangibles like ebooks and entertainment... when it comes to food and other essentials, they are happy to let folks suffer.
If Hulu blocks you for whatever reason, it's just them refusing to serve you.
Say Microsoft is implementing the block because the government has informed Microsoft that allowing Australians to buy certain applications would violate Australian law. Who would be responsible for the block in this case?
It's easy enough for non-Oz companies to set up separate Oz and non-Oz subsidiaries to handle Oz and non-Oz business, then have the non-Oz companies keep using geographic IP-based blocking.
Now, if the goal is to create an even playing field WITHIN Oz, well, it's their country, they can enact and enforce such a law if they want to.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
What makes them think things should always be the same price, everywhere?
Sure, we're talking about essentially the same thing, but there's a reason why things cost different amounts in various places. Avacadoes are cheaper during avacado season, and cherries/apples/pears/etc. during their respective seasons. They're cheaper near where they are grown. Sometimes, they're not even available due to lack of demand.
It's simple economics. There's little/no reason why globally universal prices should be in place - it's an asinine idea.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Go out and purchase a VPS hosted in the data center of your choice in the country of your choice.
I do this currently, granted it is not to get around GEO IP Blocking, rather for a centrally hosted box I can connect my roaming devices to via VPN and route all my traffic through it.
I like the BBC, and yes I could go TPB route if I wanted, I can also pay $10 a month for a VPS hosted in a data center in the UK, which would allow me to watch BBC streamed programs without having to wait for them to show up on BBC America. That, and well, who needs ATT/Verizon/whomever snooping on your traffic and profiting from it..
I came, I conquered, I coredumped
Their government can just set up a bunch of proxies... or put up some torrents
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
While I also dislike geoip blocking I think that we can fight them much more effectively by technological means (like proxies) than by further regulation of the Internet.
I hate how I can't access some sites, pay more for some services (eg steam, adobe) or get inferior counterparts eg (low quality steams).
This would kinda screw up agreements where IP isnt licensed for use in Australia or say censored/not released here yet but it would sure make a lot of Australians happy.
Please explain what is "leftist" about the Australian consumer group Choice?
(Due to legislation in your geographical area that requires us not to block users in certain geographical areas based on their apparent geographical area, we cannot host or advertise our services in your geographical area and this comment is thus not available in your geographical area. We are sorry for the inconvenience and redundancy.)
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Now, if they'll band this in the UK, I'll be able to watch Dr. Who on BBC's website, instead of having to search it out on a more "questionable" site. (/wishful-thinking)
Do you have a different price for black people?
Have gnu, will travel.
The people trying to legislate it don't get it. You can't legislate what happens in someone else's country. If you want what is in that country then you may need to move there.
I've seen a Sigur Rós video get blocked to viewers in Iceland. I mean, WTH?
"/etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit is a gimp plugin and must be run by the gimp in order to be used."
One work-around that already exists is to hire an American or other foreign "personal shopper". You can also access sites directly through a US based proxy server. But even if you get access to the blocked site that doesn't mean the retailer will ship to your Australian address or accept your Australian currency, credit card, etc.. Again, the personal shopper becomes the solution. They can even package and consolidate multiple orders from multiple businesses as one single shipment to save on transportation costs.
Naturally, the Aussies may make special exceptions when they want to keep their citizens from accessing specific US sites.
It's not merely "specific US sites", unless you're counting every online store that sells motion pictures or video games whose publisher hasn't paid off the Australian Classification Board as "specific US sites".
A short video about a Dutch athlete on the BBC site, blocked for Dutch viewers.
"I'm not much interested in interoperability. I want substitutability. I want to be able to throw your software out."
I'm not talking about games that would be rated R18. I'm talking about games whose (smaller) publishers have not paid the Australian Classification Board to rate them, even if they would have ended up rated G or PG.
I'm not talking about games that would be rated R18. I'm talking about games whose (smaller) publishers have not paid the Australian Classification Board to rate them, even if they would have ended up rated G or PG.
The article is also, not talking about these games.
Why does the latest Gears of Bore or Call of Halo cost 3 to 4 times as much in Australia, legally sold from Australian retail stores under Australian laws WITH AUSTRALIAN RATINGS than the exact same games in Europe or the United States (which it is 100% LEGAL TO IMPORT).
But nice try to dance around the point of price disparity for exactly the same product and grasp upon ideas that are not only horribly out of date but also incorrect (the laws do not prohibit importing of "non classified" or "have not paid the classification board", they only prohibit SPECIFIC banned items of which there is a clear, well published and well defined list, wikipedia can help you here).
As I said, nice try to get away from the point but what bearing does this bit of superfluous and wrong information have to do with the fact games for Australian customers ARE MANY TIMES THE PRICE OF OTHER COUNTRIES.
Do you get the piont, yes I know you're a bit slow on the uptake but I've put them in bold and CAPITAL LETTERS.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
You want to pass a law in Australia banning a foreign company, over whom you have no jurisdiction, from banning users from your country.
Good luck with that.
Liberty in your lifetime
Oh yes, because as everyone knows, passing a law in Australia causes other countries to follow it. Seriously? They think they can pass a bill in their country that forces an American company like Hulu to obey it and start streaming to Australia? Apparently they don't know how the world works. Now if they meant it would only effect things the opposite direction, well Australia doesn't really sell anything significant to outside countries that's geoblocked so it'd be pretty darn pointless.
I was recently linked to a page on the BBC website which was blocked to visitors from the UK. We're not even allowed to look at anything that BBC Worldwide has made, apparently.
Don't get your hopes up, given that the Aussie government has been active in helping the Assange* persecution.
Though as a USian, I have to point out I don't think they've yet joined in our extra-judicial citizen-killing.
* - Yes, he's kind of a dick; doesn't justify meddling in the rights and justice systems of three sovereign countries.
Get a proxy or VPN account with a US provider. Hire a remailing service in New Hampshire. (one that gives a street address, not box number address) Get a US based Visa debit card.
Join the Virtual US!
YMMV, and you then must pay the shipping at consumer rates for hard goods, and then customs and import duties as required, and any local regional taxes on purchased materials above customs and duties fees, for example in Washington State we have a "use tax" on goods purchased out of state and brought into the state.
Compare cost to cost purchasing locally. Save? Woo Hoo!!! Lost money, welcome to the free market!
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
A short video about a Dutch athlete on the BBC site, blocked for Dutch viewers.
Want to download from the BBC? Expatshield is your friend.
http://www.expatshield.com/
The web page below has a list of other free proxy services
http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-anonymous-surfing-service.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gizmosbest+%28Gizmo%27s+Best-ever+Freeware%29
What pisses me off is different prices for the same piece of downloadable software from the same company, depending on where you live. I can't remember the product, but it cost $30 from an Australian IP address and around $20 in the US. Australian Tax would add $2 to the US price, but where'd that other eight bucks come from?
The 2012 version of Kaspersky was available in the US weeks ahead of Australia, but you were redirected to the Australian site whether you wanted to be or not.
Hotspot Shield give me a US IP address on the rare occasions I need one.
Canada sufferes from much of the same non-sense. The Supreme Court of Canada recently released a large decision on copy rights in Canada which included technology neutrality. Beyond Users Rights: Supreme Court Entrenches Technological Neutrality as a New Copyright Principle I have to wonder if this decision can be applied in this case. If a book is sold in Canada in it's hard form for example can it be blocked in it 'E' form? If I can walk across the border and bring back a movie can I be stopped from bringing it across over the internet? Many possibilities.
One big difference between physical media and online distribution is that selling by online distribution implies making a copy as part of the sale. That in turn means the seller has to have an license (or chain of licenses) with the copyright holder. That in turn means they have to play by the copyright holders rules.
Whereas with physical media it can be resold by an entity that has no such relationship with the copyright holder and is not bound by their rules.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
First time I ever encountered IP blocking was attempting to go to Australian & New Zealand Websites from my location in the US. Admittedly, it was a few years ago...
Choice argues that THE WHOLE CONCEPT of location based rights-to-distribute is fundamentally retarded in the sense that IN PRACTICE it DECREASES PRODUCT SALES. Yes, in theory the plan is that Distributor X acquires (usually purchases, by up front payment or otherwise) EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS to handle ALL sales of Vendor Y products in a specified region. In Reality Distributor X: (a) now has a monopoly , and subsequently goes out of their way to SCREW THE CUSTOMER (b) almost *never* actually distributes ALL of the products of Vendor Y (forcing prospective customers to pursue copyright infringement) BOTH of these actions ACTIVELY DECREASE SALES VOLUMES.
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
A number of people appear to be under the misunderstanding that this is about licensing however that is incorrect. The simple issue is that this is about companies charging more because they can.
If I buy a book from a web site in the US from an authorised distributor then it is a legitimate purchase, that is the point of parallel import laws in Australia.
These restrictions are attempts to block the use of parallel import channels because it reduces their profit margin.
Vodo uses BitTorrent to distribute. That rules it out for those of us in the "ass-reaming bandwidth costs" part of the world. I pay $2 per GB after the first 50GB in a month thanks very much.
(Next time you complain about 250GB or 1TB bandwidth caps, just give it up in advance - you'll get no sympathy from us).
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
It has the side effect of protecting Aussie citizens who break US law to get these services in a manner which doesn't break AU law from US-initiated retaliation, as extradition requires a crime committed be a crime in both countries.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
"[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
Given the order of your statements, it looks like you blame the 2nd on the 1st.
A causal effect from #2=>#1 has been independently,
and scientifically validated, so
co-incidence? There is no question that it is not.
Higher prices drive up piracy rates -- in fact, it was
noted that high prices were a much stronger factor on
higher piracy rates, than piracy was on prices, as due to
the profit margins (especially on digital goods), a piracy rate
of say 100%, doesn't mean your costs rise by 100%...in fact,
in a digital market, market theory has shown that when piracy
becomes a factor in pricing, it pushes prices down, as it lowers
demand, and thus lowers the value of the remaining goods (so more
likely to be sold 'on sale').
Is that what you meant by asking if it was coincidence?
I pay 10c per MB after the first 16GB in a month. So I win.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Is that on a mobile phone, or are your landlines that expensive?
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
I live in the Adelaide Hills and it is a mobile broadband only plan. It is essentially $79.90 for 16GB then 10c per MB up to $99.90 and from that point I can buy blocks of usage at around $20 per GB. Usage is counted in both directions. There are other mobile broadband plans but many of those do not work wee as I get a marginal signal.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Yes, use a fast proxy and be done with it. Why all the hoopla ?
You're complaining about a mobile broadband plan with 16GB for $80? Hell, for mobile broadband I get 1GB for $60. $80 you'd be lucky if you got 2GB.
Defeated once more.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
where in the world are you?
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
A couple of hundred kilometres to your south-east. Yes, New Zealand really is that backwards.
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
I had no idea NZ was that bad. Before I moved here I had cable and I so miss it.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.