Asking Slashdot: Converting an SUV Into an Hybrid Diesel-Electric?

joaommp writes "So, my team has started a project to convert an SUV into an hybrid diesel-electric vehicle — basically, an electric vehicle with a diesel engine working as a range extender. We've now setup a campaign on Indiegogo to help with the project costs (we are a non-profit team) and later we'd like to, if the project is successful, be able to provide conversion kits and additional kits for elements of the transformation, like the HUD, for example. Why an SUV conversion? Because a lot of people like SUVs (sense of safety, overcompensation, etc) but they're un-economic and environment unfriendly. I'd like to ask all slashdotters if they have any advice or tips for this project. We already have the project well defined but more input is greatly appreciated before we begin tearing apart the beast. So, if you could help providing additional advice and information, it would be awesome."

Comments

Overweight Weight Loss Drug Analogy

[Anonymous Coward]

Doctor, I don't like to exercise and I know eating 5,000 calories a day is bad for me.
Can you give me a pill to so I can continue eating bad but will have a thin body of a super model?

Use a Lupo engine

[cpu6502]

(1) The 3-cylinder version gets around 85mpg on the highway. Of course with the greater air resistance of an SUV, so you might have to use a 4-cylinder version which burns more fuel, but that's still a huge improvement.

(2) Supplement the tiny engine with an electric motor to give extra bursts of power, such as when accelerating. Basically the Honda model.

(3) Dump the SUV, because it's a highly-inefficient form factor. Nobody needs an SUV unless they own a carpentry business and carry stuff with them all day long. A car is a better aerodynamic shape. My generation never had SUVs (not invented yet), and yet my parents were able to get us to the soccer games just fine with their 4-door sedan.

Re:Use a Lupo engine

[Jeng]

A car is a better aerodynamic shape. My generation never had SUVs (not invented yet),

The Suburban has been around since the 1930's.

Nobody needs an SUV unless they own a carpentry business and carry stuff with them all day long.

Actually mini-vans are a better choice than an SUV for most trades such as carpenters. Better mileage, big flat floor to lay out full sheets of plywood/drywall, and big side sliding doors for easy access.

Re:Use a Lupo engine

[NalosLayor]

Unsurprisingly, a regular van is an even better choice, mileage aside. Even less surprising is how common regular vans are. It's almost like someone designed them for that purpose...or something. Unlike SUVs.

Re:Use a Lupo engine

[cpu6502]

A suburban is not one of them. The SUV was specifically developed in the 1980s in order to avoid the federal emissions standards/CAFE MPG limits. The suburban does not qualify as a "light truck" that is exempt like a true SUV.

Re:Use a Lupo engine

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh God the idiotic answer of "Nobody needs an SUV except XYZ".

  - They stopped making the Crown Vic, that means 3 child families must use SUVs and Vans.
  - Modern cars are often rather small, making them worthless for big trips with young children (try to fit two decent strollers in the trunk of something that isn't a Crown Vic, I dare you).
  - The towing capacity of the average modern car is about 1000 lbs (many actually explicitly state NO towing WHATSOEVER). This means that families owning a house, where every couple of months you want to haul a large item home will need to oftentimes rent another vehicle for that purpose. Why not just buy a more versatile vehicle to start with?
  - Modern cars have small engines. This is great around the town, but on the highway, mileage suffers horribly. SUVs get much better highway mileage (not better than cars, but not all that far away) because they often put an appropriately sized engine in them.
  - Some modern cars (not all) do not support roof racks. So you can't even use it to bring a bicycle with you (since you can't tow with it, either) on a small fun trip.
  - If you like to do your own repair work, modern cars are hell on earth due to their cramped engine compartments, unibody construction, and independent suspension (of course, most SUVs have that nowadays too, but not *all* are terrible to work on the way it generally is with cars).
  - They quit making station wagons (give or take) so those customers bought SUVs (which are now being downsized to CUVs, which I guess is the modern day station wagon).
  - It sucks ass getting a flat in a car on a long trip, since most modern cars have a toy tire, or worse, tire goop and an inflator ("clown shoes" as I like to call it). Many SUVs offer a full size spare--extremely handy!
  - Stop using gasoline, use LPG or CNG and all of a sudden driving a V8 doesn't matter anymore (for your pocketbook or the environment). Once you go V8 with propane, you will not go back--the savings over a 4-banger gasoline car along with the actual enjoyment of driving will say to you "What have I been missing?!?!"

Reply and add more reasons you own an SUV.

Feel free to complaint that it's breeders that buy SUVs, because you're probably right. However, without breeders YOU don't exist. Think about that for a moment.

Re:Use a Lupo engine

[HapSlappy_2222]

He pretty clearly stated why they're using an SUV, and I applaud his thinking. Since so many people want the SUV "feel", if he can succeed in this it could herald a major step forward.

It doesn't matter what you think people "need". The "need" behind an SUV is often simply the desire to own a large vehicle. Since that's the case, why *not* try to succeed with a big old truck with crappy aerodynamics and weight ratios? It seems FAR more likely that this generation of soccer moms (who have access to Suburbans and Expeditions) will switch to an electric/diesel hybrid SUV than to a Prius.

Re:Use a Lupo engine

[bobcat7677]

I have found most Americans that have SUVs have them for the combination of two needs: They need to tow things sometimes (boat/trailer) so a more powerful engine is needed that is only found in trucks/SUVs and they have more kids than can legally fit into a car. 50 years ago if you had more then two kids you just crammed them in whereever. Now you are required by law to have each child in a government approved car seat that takes up half the car AND have them all in the back seat. Most cars cannot fit more than two child seats (properly secured).

Re:Use a Lupo engine

[Jeng]

- The towing capacity of the average modern car is about 1000 lbs (many actually explicitly state NO towing WHATSOEVER). This means that families owning a house, where every couple of months you want to haul a large item home will need to oftentimes rent another vehicle for that purpose.

It is cheaper to have it delivered than drive around with an extra ton or two of vehicle everyday.

- They stopped making the Crown Vic, that means 3 child families must use SUVs and Vans

Minivans are a better option than a full size van or an SUV. Better seating, more flexible, easier to drive and better mileage.

- Modern cars have small engines. This is great around the town, but on the highway, mileage suffers horribly. SUVs get much better highway mileage (not better than cars, but not all that far away) because they often put an appropriately sized engine in them.

Yes, I had an underpowered car once and yes it got horrible mileage, but is not the norm for a car to have an underpowered engine in it.

- It sucks ass getting a flat in a car on a long trip, since most modern cars have a toy tire, or worse, tire goop and an inflator ("clown shoes" as I like to call it). Many SUVs offer a full size spare--extremely handy!

One can purchase a full size spare and doing so is cheaper than buying an SUV for the option of a full size spare.

-

Now there is a good argument to make regarding SUV's and that is at full capacity it gets pretty good mileage per passenger.

Re:Use a Lupo engine

[Sun.Jedi]

Reply and add more reasons you own an SUV.

I own an ford expedition and a ford f150 supercrew (4 real doors).

- I do not like being at "car level". I feel more secure at "truck level". Better visibility.
- More metal. Real bumpers. I do not feel safe in a small plastic car.
- MPG. Even if I could get a car with more metal and size, many car models are not significant improvements over my SUV and offer less convenience.
- 4x4. When I want to go, I go.
- Interior room. I have 3 kids. Ever put 3 child safety seats into a small plastic car?
- Kids have "things"... backpacks, class projects, game cases. 3 kids + any friends gets cramped in cars.
- Minivans, the only real alternative to SUVs. Ugly. Expensive. Nuff said
-.Environment? Meh. I drive a 2 cylinder for the better part of 9 months out of the year. It's a Harley.

Re:Use a Lupo engine

[Grishnakh]

You "feel safer" in a big, giant vehicle, but then you ride a motorcycle much of the time? You're a moron. What do you think happens to you when someone driving an SUV (or a car) hits you on your Harley?

Towing capacity

[mapsjanhere]

While there are many vanity reasons to buy an SUV, there is a large utility part on most of them - towing capacity like a truck. If you have to combine the family vehicle with towing (camping trailer, boat, ATVs etc), the SUV is your only option aside from even less economic crew-sized trucks. So when you size your electric drive units, make sure they can meet the towing requirements to be competitive outside the vanity market.

Re:seems like a total waste of time to me

[MickyTheIdiot]

If the technology didn't change and people were still reliant on the horse 1920 it would have been exactly correct.

So I don't know what your point is here. Is he right in making a bid to change the status quo or is he wrong? Changing the status quo could change the upcoming calamity just like the introduction of the horseless carriage did.

The big difference is there are a lot more people currently fighting to keep the oil status quo now than there was for horses in 1900.

Greenie perspective

[girlintraining]

Invariably, the greenie perspective will rise up in this thread. Here's the most common ones, and a summary of their replies. Think of this as a table of contents for this thread...

"SUVs are the work of the devil!"
The argument will be that you should drive a smaller car. Then someone else will chime in that you should drive a sub-compact. Then someone else will say that's stupid because what if you need the space. Then yet another person will say you should consider public transportation. Then That Bicyclist Guy will chime in and say his is the greenest solution. Anonymous Coward will then pop in and note that we should all move to communes and engage in purity chanting as our principle form of entertainment. He will be modded -1, funny.

"You should just go all-electric!"
Another classic greenie argument. And therein, discussions of carbon offsets, pollution caused by power plants, and the practical problem of limited range will be had, with much stomping of feet, and occasional use of caps lock. Everybody in the replies will be both right and wrong -- hopefully someone notes that it's the overlap between environmentally-friendly and economically-viable is frightfully small and that's the real problem.

"Diesel is even worse than gas!"
The engineers will tear the poor bastards that say this apart. Diesel is actually cleaner, and people far better than I at explaining the particulars of this will enjoy going into great detail and accumulating many +5, informative comments in the process. Europe will be mentioned; along with vaguely disparaging remarks as to the nationality of the original poster (damn americans -- Why u no diesel?)

Finally, there will be only a small handful of posts that actually talk about the conversion process itself. I'll just go ahead and throw my gas on the fire and suggest a microturbine with a (very) large capacitor, which is how freight trains work. *ducks* Enjoy!

Re:Greenie perspective

[Antipater]

In other news, the International Criminal Court has a warrant out for your arrest. Something about war crimes against the nation of straw men.

Weight is your enemy

[avandesande]

All of the problems faced by guys doing conversions of GEO Metros are multiplied directly in relation to the weight of the vehicle.
Don't waste your time with a SUV.

Re:Don't Waste Your Time

[Rei]

Making it a hybrid does nothing for fuel economy *unless it is driven frequently in stop/start traffic*.

Common misconception. The biggest advantage of hybrids is not actually stop-start, but that it lets you use an undersized engine which is run most of its times in a high torque (aka, more efficient) power band. If you used such an engine in a non-hybrid, it'd be underpowered for acceleration and hill climbing, but the electric assist lets you do that.

Re:Simple Solution

[h4rr4r]

Old people cars are not going to get the latest tech.
The Vette is a sad statement about cars in america. The damn thing is front engined and pretends to be a supercar.

A good 70s muscle car is an oxymoron, they can't turn for shit. Driving in straight lines just is not fun and they are not even fast at that.

A modern car will go faster, use less fuel doing at and be able to turn.