In Advance of Ramadan, Indonesian Gov't Starts Massive Censorship Push

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In Advance of Ramadan, Indonesian Gov't Starts Massive Censorship Push

Posted by timothy on Friday July 20, 2012 @11:50AM from the night-time-is-for-snacking dept.

An anonymous reader writes "The Indonesian government has blocked access to 1 million pornographic websites in advance of Ramadan, the country's holy month. Internet censorship is nothing new in Indonesia, but the scale of this particular restriction is unprecedented. Apparently this is only the beginning. Minister Tifatul Sembiring said Wednesday his office would target more sites through the country's holy month, and beyond."

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Maybe I'm missing something by undefinedreference · 2012-07-20 11:52 · Score: 1

Isn't Ramadan a Muslim holiday? How is it "the country's holy month"?
1. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 11:55 · Score: 1
  
  Google?
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Indonesia
  
  Islam is the dominant religion in Indonesia, which also has a larger Muslim population than any other country in the world, with approximately 202.9 million identified as Muslim (88.2% of the total population) as of 2009.
2. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 11:55 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Because Islam is the state religion.
3. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by undefinedreference · 2012-07-20 11:56 · Score: 1
  
  Before you ask, yes, I call Lent a "holiday", too.
4. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by undefinedreference · 2012-07-20 11:59 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, and it's the state religion in a number of other countries. The headline seems to indicate that Indonesia is the only country that observes it.
5. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by DoofusOfDeath · 2012-07-20 12:01 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  Before you ask, yes, I call Lent a "holiday", too.
  Do you call Lent a holiday too? Oh crap, you just said I shouldn't...
6. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 12:05 · Score: 0
  
  You have bad reading comprehension then.
  There are way more than 12 countries, so you know each country can't have their own holy month. Why do you think August being the countries holy month prevents other countries from having the same holy month.
  If I say the third week of December is the busiest shopping week of the year in the U.S., do you think it can't also be the busiest shopping week of the year in other countries?
7. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by undefinedreference · 2012-07-20 12:06 · Score: 2
  
  I never said you shouldn't, I was simply answering the obvious before it was asked.
8. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Sir_Sri · 2012-07-20 12:24 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  It's the holy month of Ramadan where Muslims fast for a whole month and then have a big feast at the end of it.
  Because it's a month long 'holiday' doesn't really do it justice. Life still goes on, just at strange hours and in strange ways. I've had islamic scholars tell me that part of the point is to experience hunger, so when some Muslims switch to being nocturnal they're missing the point. But that happens a lot of places, the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law so to speak.
  Technically Indonesia is not an islamic state, they recognize a couple of religions (some of Islam, some of Christianity, Confucianism, Buddhism, and Hinduism), but as is practically the case, with just shy of 90% of the population being (or at least claiming to be) Muslim you can't really get around Islamic tradition.
9. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by similar_name · 2012-07-20 12:27 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  There are way more than 12 countries, so you know each country can't have their own holy month. Why do you think August being the countries holy month prevents other countries from having the same holy month.
  August isn't the holy month, Ramadan is. Why do you think one calendar would prevent there being other calendars?
10. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 12:32 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Actually it isn't in Indonesia. The country is founded on it's five principles "Pancasila"
  The belief in monotheism is part of the constitution,...
  HOWEVER, Islam is not the state religion, despite the overwhemling majority of citizens claiming to be Muslim.
  In fact Atheism is illegal in the country.
  It's not so surprising when the population mostly still believes in ghosts and spirits.
11. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by AdamJS · 2012-07-20 12:48 · Score: 1
  
  Like Christmas in the US. A month is a bit excessive though.
12. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by pwizard2 · 2012-07-20 12:51 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  In fact Atheism is illegal in the country.
  I wonder how they enforce that. All someone would have to do is not openly admit to being an atheist.
  
  The sooner the world gets rid of religion, the better off we will be. Religion holds us back... for the first time ever in history, the combined knowledge of humanity is available in one place for those who care to look for it and yet these theocracies throw it away in favor of blind faith in primitive mythology. Sure, they're just blocking porn right now, but what stops them from blocking anything that undermines their power? It's absolutely sad that some 7th century Arab tribesman's scam to get money, power, and women has persisted all the way to the 21st century. Christianity is not much better, however I give it credit for not being in the "killing people" phase anymore.
  
  --
  "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
13. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by PPH · 2012-07-20 13:00 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  In fact Atheism is illegal in the country.
  Blessed be FSM. RAmen.
  
  --
  Have gnu, will travel.
14. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 13:08 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  They actually feast at the end of everyday, not just the end of the month. It is very often a community feast (called Iftar), where friends & neighbors (even the ones that are well off) are invited. I agree with you on the rest, though.
15. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 13:10 · Score: 1
  
  * that are not well off
16. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by sinan · 2012-07-20 13:20 · Score: 1
  
  --Like Christmas in the US. A month is a bit excessive though.
  Yeah, but it's not like it's every year.It's only every 354 days.
17. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by lordshipmayhem · 2012-07-20 13:24 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  This is how - jailing atheists and closing Christian churches.
18. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by k(wi)r(kipedia) · 2012-07-20 13:44 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't Ramadan a Muslim holiday? How is it "the country's holy month"?
  Ramadan isn't the holiday, since it lasts more or less a month. Now even if you're not familiar with Islamic religious feasts, just imagine the consequences of an entire nation taking their vacation at the same time. The holiday (and holy day) is called Eid ul-Fitr, which marks the end of the Ramadan.
  Eid ul-Fitr has been compared to Christmas. I think it's closer to Easter Sunday, since both holy days mark the end of some sort abstinence, Lent in the case of Easter. Nowadays fasting is a word not general associated with the Christmas season.
19. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by an+unsound+mind · 2012-07-20 13:45 · Score: 1
  
  Blessed be FSF.
20. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 13:45 · Score: 0
  
  Perhaps you've heard of people translating into the nearest unit of a more familiar unit of measure. It's often convenient when exact measurement isn't really necessary in the discussion.
21. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by causality · 2012-07-20 13:54 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  In fact Atheism is illegal in the country.
  I wonder how they enforce that. All someone would have to do is not openly admit to being an atheist. The sooner the world gets rid of religion, the better off we will be. Religion holds us back... for the first time ever in history, the combined knowledge of humanity is available in one place for those who care to look for it and yet these theocracies throw it away in favor of blind faith in primitive mythology. Sure, they're just blocking porn right now, but what stops them from blocking anything that undermines their power? It's absolutely sad that some 7th century Arab tribesman's scam to get money, power, and women has persisted all the way to the 21st century. Christianity is not much better, however I give it credit for not being in the "killing people" phase anymore.
  Religion isn't the problem. Using the force of law (i.e. men with guns) to enforce your brand of morality on others is the problem.
  
  Religion is only one excuse for doing this. "For your safety" or "for the children" are others. The process is the same. The excuse is just that -- an excuse. It's all about power, control, and trying to force everyone to be like yourself because you are too insecure to be an individual. These are people who derive security from being among the like-minded. Consequently they feel threatened by someone who does not agree.
  
  These are petty, egotistical little tyrants. The thing to understand about ego is that in its own eyes, it is never wrong and never at fault. Therefore, if my insecurity causes me to feel threatened, I absolutely cannot attribute that to insecurity or any other fault within myself (even though that would lead to personal growth*). I must blame it on the person who makes me feel insecure by believing something I don't. It's a scapegoat. If I happen to have political power, then I can put the force of law behind this. If not, I can cry about how "offended" I am and try to shame the other person into submission.
  
  Most people are like this, unfortunately. This is part of why the world is the way that it is. That's why when most people find a radio program or TV show offensive, simply not listening or watching isn't good enough for them. They have to try to take it off the air. That's why people who don't drink alcohol want to support "no alcohol sales on Sunday" and other stupid, easily circumvented laws (stock up Saturday). It's why people who don't do drugs support throwing people in jail and ruining their lives over possession of a plant, even though they weren't driving intoxicated or otherwise endangering anyone.
  
  They're cowards who don't have the strength to be individuals. That's why they cannot allow others to be individuals and make their own personal choices. Deep down they know they're cowards, so they try to appear big and fearsome. State power certainly satisfies that requirement, so they ally themselves to it. They're compensating** for personal shortcomings instead of facing them. The hardest part to understand is that these are subconscious processes -- the people themselves believes they're sincere and would probably pass any polygraph test. It's basic denial that becomes "fact" when it goes on long enough. The only exception to that would be most of the politicians, who view these cowards as little more than useful idiots who can be exploited to advance state power.
  
  * Avoiding the introspection and never developing the courage to face one's own faults and work to remedy them makes these things self-perpetuating and self-reinforcing.
  
  ** Compensation is not a deliberate, planned process. It's more like a form of energy. Being energy, it is neither created nor destroyed; it changes form. Their cowardice changes into the form of support for bad laws that deserve none. The fear and ignorance that makes "for the children" laws possible is also like this.
  
  --
  It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
22. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by artor3 · 2012-07-20 14:00 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Religions are just a source of philosophy for people without the time or inclination to ponder all of life's questions themselves. If you have the time to read over the works of philosophers and come up with a consistent viewpoint, more power to you. Most people don't, and those people can therefore either live without any self-consistent views on morality, or they can adopt a ready-made set in the form of a religion.
  Consistent morality is important. Without it, people will just come up with a rationalization for whatever benefits them at this moment, with no regard for the long term implications. That path gets you state-endorsed torture, it gets you anti-death penalty people supporting drone strikes and assassinations, it gets you anti-homosexual pundits demonizing people when the very same Biblical verse against homosexuality also lists publicly denouncing someone as equally sinful, and so on.
  But hey, religious people are behind all of those examples! Yeah, that was on purpose. Did you notice how as soon as a "Christian" leader decided torture was okay, all his supporters went along with it? It's because they aren't truly religious, they just like belonging to a special club. They don't actually care about the morality aspect. I don't want to specifically pick on Christians either. The Muslim suicide bombers and their leaders are in the same camp. They don't actually care about the faith, they just care about their special club -- the leaders like the power, the followers like the sense of purpose. Take away the religion, and they'll just come up with something else to rally behind... maybe race, maybe economic policy, maybe whether they eat their bread butter side up or down. Atheism doesn't solve anything. What we need is people to care more about finding a consistent moral basis.
  Now, of course, organized religion is a problem, particularly when accepted without question. Any time that you accept a ready-made philosophy from a powerful organization, you have to assume that the organization has designed that philosophy to protect its interests. For example, contrast the core tenets of Judeo-Christian religions (don't kill, don't steal, etc.) with some of the lesser points (e.g. tithing). It's pretty clear that certain ideas are important, while others are just there so that some old men in Rome can live comfortably.
  In short, what people should do, for the good of all humanity, is learn the good lessons, throw away the bad ones, and stop treating it as a team sport. This goes for atheists too. There have been great philosophers who didn't believe in a God, but people like Dawkins just make things worse by making everything so damn confrontational. Instead of providing readers with a consistent moral viewpoint, he just strokes their egos and gets rich doing it. No different from the priest who tells his flock their God's chosen people right before passing the hat.
23. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Strangelover · 2012-07-20 14:11 · Score: 1
  
  There is no such thing as *getting rid of religion*. People who want to believe *religiously* in things, with or without proof will do so no matter what. Whether it's UFO's, environmental disaster de jour, or buzzword de jour....
24. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by bky1701 · 2012-07-20 14:11 · Score: 2
  
  Indonesia is essentially a Muslim theocracy. It is illegal to be atheist; people are in jail for it right now. Other religions aren't exactly safe, either.
  
  --
  Great Intellect...
25. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by myowntrueself · 2012-07-20 14:25 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  It's the holy month of Ramadan where Muslims fast for a whole month and then have a big feast at the end of it.
  Because it's a month long 'holiday' doesn't really do it justice. Life still goes on, just at strange hours and in strange ways. I've had islamic scholars tell me that part of the point is to experience hunger, so when some Muslims switch to being nocturnal they're missing the point. But that happens a lot of places, the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law so to speak.
  Technically Indonesia is not an islamic state, they recognize a couple of religions (some of Islam, some of Christianity, Confucianism, Buddhism, and Hinduism), but as is practically the case, with just shy of 90% of the population being (or at least claiming to be) Muslim you can't really get around Islamic tradition.
  Its far from a holiday and more a festival of self abuse. I worked under an executive who was a Muslim. During Ramadan he fasted himself almost into a coma every day. By 5 pm he was unable to think straight and could barely stand. He fucked up a number of critical contracts due to this. He made it very very hard on everyone else in the company.
  Guess what he had for breakfast? A couple of fried eggs. It was completely retarded.
  
  --
  In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
26. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 14:30 · Score: -1
  
  Ah, the good old days before the state. When human females evolved the involuntary arousal response to perceived sexual activity, almost certainly as a defense against being raped to death.
  "I've got a hard heart, a Stirner expression and a Nietzsche trigger finger. IDGAF about the lack of jobs or your starving children. Just because every inch of land worth hunting, fishing or farming upon has been snatched up by the wealthy, doesn't mean they owe you a living or that your right to live outweighs their right to own property!
  So. Spare me your whining - I've little patience for it."
27. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 14:33 · Score: 0
  
  Evolution is a slow process.
  "Magical thinking" is more akin to an addiction than anything else. People who are too weak to pursue truth in a disciplined way, and to love the truth no matter what it turns out to be, will resort to pleasing mythology instead. You can no more stop this than you can stop the mutual attraction of free masses.
  Yes, it holds us back as a species. But it is also losing its grip. There are more atheists, agnostics, and spiritual-but-not-religious people in the world today than ever before in history. Eventually, those who can cope with new knowledge will displace those who cannot. It won't happen nearly as quickly as we would like it to, but it will happen.
  Let them humiliate themselves before the world. Let the world observe their silliness. Let this play out in all its glory, as actions like these serve as a testament to the passion with which humanity wrestles against old chains in order to truly liberate its spirit. The humans of the future will study this period with intense interest, immortalizing moments like these as an unforgettable aspect of our cultural heritage.
  Religion is a difficult beast to slay, making our eventual victory over it all the more glorious. Give it one last chance to bear its fangs before it falls.
28. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by khallow · 2012-07-20 14:35 · Score: 1
  
  but people like Dawkins just make things worse by making everything so damn confrontational.
  Socrates was a master at this sort of confrontation. And that's part of the reason he's heralded as the greatest of philosophers. How do you know a morality or philosophy is consistent? Because you test it. And one such way, a very effective one I might add, is via confrontation.
29. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 14:36 · Score: 0
  
  Christianity is not much better, however I give it credit for not being in the "killing people" phase anymore.
  
  Bias much? Since you're trolling that way, you also should note Atheists committing genocide in Communist countries just a few decades ago with >100 million dead. Atheists also have a VERY bloody track record.
30. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 14:47 · Score: 1
  
  This is true, if an exaggeration, people like to feel right and making others act out their morality even through force makes them feel safe and/or important, but religion is worse than this.
  People instinctively want others to do what *they* think is good for them it is a consequence of our empathy that seeing someone else do something we regard as unpleasant dangerous or hurtful, even only to themselves, makes us feel bad, and we want to stop it. Religion plays not just on our desire to feel right but also on our desirer to protect others from harm. Salvation through faith coupled with the thereat of hell, an eternity of meaningless suffering, will drive people to do *anything* to other people for their own good including kill them to prevent them from straying. Because hell is an eternal punishment you can even balance genocide against the "salvation" of a single individual and come out thinking of it as a positive. This is what has driven the growth of Christianity and Islam and also what makes so many religions so negative.
31. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 14:54 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  You can't approximate Ramadan by calling it August. it's based on a lunar calendar that is 12 to 14 days shorter each year than the Gregorian calendar. This means it moves relative to the Gregorian calendar each year such that Ramadan can/has/will occur alongside every month in the Gregorian calendar. You can call it a month because it is (maybe even more accurately so considering month comes from moon) but it shouldn't be called August since you might as well call it January or mid-March to mid-April.
32. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by artor3 · 2012-07-20 14:58 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  You're (intentionally) equivocating. The Socratic method is to ask pointed questions as a means of testing a philosophy. Polemics, such as those written by Dawkins, make facile, feel-good arguments to make their readers happy. Both are confrontational, but one is constructive, while the other is all about running the other guy down.
33. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 15:01 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  I doubt that was to spread Atheism or was a war against Theists. Nice try though.
34. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 15:06 · Score: 1
  
  More he was retarded and enjoyed the self-abuse. Most practicing muslims do fine, I have worked closely with many of them.
35. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by bryan1945 · 2012-07-20 15:11 · Score: 1
  
  I have been touched by his noodley appendage.
  
  --
  Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
36. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Jah-Wren+Ryel · 2012-07-20 15:12 · Score: 1
  
  One might even say that religious institutions provide an outlet for such impulses that is at least somewhat disciplined and much less likely to cause the person damage than simply letting them wander into the flock of someone like jim jones.
  
  --
  When information is power, privacy is freedom.
37. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by interkin3tic · 2012-07-20 16:07 · Score: -1
  
  I wonder if you could just point out that atheism by some standards is just as much a religion as theism. You believe there are no gods, you can prove it only as much as one can prove there ARE gods.
38. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by khallow · 2012-07-20 16:20 · Score: 2
  
  You're (intentionally) equivocating. The Socratic method is to ask pointed questions as a means of testing a philosophy. Polemics, such as those written by Dawkins, make facile, feel-good arguments to make their readers happy. Both are confrontational, but one is constructive, while the other is all about running the other guy down.
  Given the only difference between the two styles is mostly a matter of subjective opinion, why shouldn't I intentionally equivocate here? Socrates apparently ran a lot of people down during his career ass professional gadfly. And frankly, getting your belief system run down seems a good way to test its weaknesses.
39. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 16:56 · Score: 0
  
  I would have to disagree. Religion is about faith and submission. If God did not make your brain to "ponder lifes questions" then how could you be pondering?
  Also, theres a big difference between values, morals and ethics my friend...
  To tired to continue, going to read my BIBLE then goto sleep
  God Bless
  -- SnappleX
40. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 17:18 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  It must be hard for Muslims that live north of the Arctic circle, since they Fast from sunrise to sunset.
41. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 18:07 · Score: 0
  
  Sorry, I meant I'm going to burn my BIBLE then masturbate while watching the Home Shopping Network.
  Hail Satan
  -- SnappleX
42. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 18:25 · Score: -1
  
  I get the feeling you're defending Dawkins more than the method. Dawkin's religious arguments/assertions are amaturish, poor, and don't hold any water. I don't know of any atheist philosopher of religion who has ran with his arguments from the God Delusion for instance. I have read a few attempts to salvage anything from this ultimate 747 argument which concluded the argument was fruitless. If you want an attack on Christianity, something along the lines of Michael Martin's The Case Against Christianity, while a drier read, contains actual arguments as opposed to assertions.
43. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 19:06 · Score: 0
  
  Religion holds us back...
  Doesn't porn hold us back (from doing better/healthier activities)?
44. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Sir_Sri · 2012-07-20 19:30 · Score: 1
  
  That's actually the point from what I understand. You're supposed to suffer and know what it's like to be poor and to be able to rejoice every night when you feast. It is supposed to teach you humility, so you know what it's like for the poor wage slave who has to do that all year round because he/she can't afford food every day.
  This runs into the first problem, which is that Islam was developed with a particular latitude in mind, and the rules don't work as well far north or south of it, and secondly, lots of muslims who really have to do business during ramadan just become noctural and sleep all day.
45. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 20:33 · Score: 0
  
  When human females evolved the involuntary arousal response to perceived sexual activity, almost certainly as a defense against being raped to death.
  Pardon me, O All-Knowing AC, but if you've a moment or two, I'm highly interested in knowing how the *male* involuntary arousal response to perceived sexual activity was evolved.
  Awaiting your enlightened response.
  Yours in Guadalajara,
  Lev Davidovitch Trotsky, née Bronshtein.
  (Wasn't this much nicer than a silent but deadly -1, WTF? (And Wayyyy Off-Topic) mod or a curt [and massively overabused] [citation needed]? Yeah, I think so, too.)
46. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 20:46 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I do definitely not "believe" that there is no god in the same sense as you might believe that there is one. And I think every atheist/agnostic will say the same.
  Your believe is based on stories and myths. I don't have that. Thats it. I am not believing in anything on the grounds of myths and stories.
47. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 20:59 · Score: 0
  
  Because muslims think islamic law also applies to the nonmuslims subhumans (ie dhimmis) that live in Dar Al Islam.
48. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 21:00 · Score: 0
  
  So no muslim Mayor for the moon either.
49. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 21:08 · Score: 0
  
  "Religion isn't the problem. Using the force of law (i.e. men with guns) to enforce your brand of morality on others is the problem. "
  Look who's talking. Men with guns come in California when you sleep with a 16 year old, step over to Nevada and you're morally OK.
  When Portuguese tourists (age of consent 14) go to jail in the US, it's also apparently because of a 'Problem' for the US morality.
  So shut the fuck up when other countries have their own illusions.
50. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by heypete · 2012-07-20 21:19 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not a Muslim but I had read that in many cases allowances can be made: people observe the fast between sunrise and sunset in Mecca.
  A similar exception was made when the first Muslim astronaut was in space. Wired has an interesting writeup on the subject.
51. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 21:49 · Score: 0
  
  Sorry, I meant
  Hail Satan (PBUH)
  -- SnappleX
52. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 22:16 · Score: -1
  
  I remember reading that, and face-palming at the stupidity of religion: moronic rules and regulations some moron made up and is making up as they go along.
  "You can eat this kind of meat, and not that kind of meat, because otherwise you will burn in some invisible place! Also, you have to pray 4, no wait, 5 times a day facing a particular direction!"
53. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by chrismcb · 2012-07-20 22:19 · Score: 1
  
  Thankfully the world will never get rid of religion. But you already know the problem you are referring to has nothing to do with religion. If it wasn't religion it would be something else.
54. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by etash · 2012-07-20 22:22 · Score: 2
  
  Religions are just a source of philosophy for people without the time or inclination to ponder all of life's questions themselves. If you have the time to read over the works of philosophers and come up with a consistent viewpoint, more power to you. Most people don't, and those people can therefore either live without any self-consistent views on morality, or they can adopt a ready-made set in the form of a religion.
  Consistent morality is important. Without it, people will just come up with a rationalization for whatever benefits them at this moment, with no regard for the long term implications. That path gets you state-endorsed torture, it gets you anti-death penalty people supporting drone strikes and assassinations, it gets you anti-homosexual pundits demonizing people when the very same Biblical verse against homosexuality also lists publicly denouncing someone as equally sinful, and so on.
  But hey, religious people are behind all of those examples! Yeah, that was on purpose. Did you notice how as soon as a "Christian" leader decided torture was okay, all his supporters went along with it? It's because they aren't truly religious, they just like belonging to a special club. They don't actually care about the morality aspect. I don't want to specifically pick on Christians either. The Muslim suicide bombers and their leaders are in the same camp. They don't actually care about the faith, they just care about their special club -- the leaders like the power, the followers like the sense of purpose. Take away the religion, and they'll just come up with something else to rally behind... maybe race, maybe economic policy, maybe whether they eat their bread butter side up or down. Atheism doesn't solve anything. What we need is people to care more about finding a consistent moral basis.
  Now, of course, organized religion is a problem, particularly when accepted without question. Any time that you accept a ready-made philosophy from a powerful organization, you have to assume that the organization has designed that philosophy to protect its interests. For example, contrast the core tenets of Judeo-Christian religions (don't kill, don't steal, etc.) with some of the lesser points (e.g. tithing). It's pretty clear that certain ideas are important, while others are just there so that some old men in Rome can live comfortably.
  In short, what people should do, for the good of all humanity, is learn the good lessons, throw away the bad ones, and stop treating it as a team sport. This goes for atheists too. There have been great philosophers who didn't believe in a God, but people like Dawkins just make things worse by making everything so damn confrontational. Instead of providing readers with a consistent moral viewpoint, he just strokes their egos and gets rich doing it. No different from the priest who tells his flock their God's chosen people right before passing the hat.
  The whole post is an apology for religion. Of course if we go deep down it's the human nature that it's bad, but religion enhances that aspect of it. About dawkins and him being confrontational, there is no progress with being carebears. Maybe we should heal the horde to their death ? Or - and i want to bring godwin here - should we have become friends with the nazis ? The only way to fix cancer is to remove it, that is, being confrontational with it.
55. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 22:23 · Score: 0
  
  I've got nothing against god. It's his fan club I can't stand.
56. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by TheLink · 2012-07-20 22:23 · Score: 1
  
  Think of it as evolution on a different scale. Many of the weaker ones died out years ago.
  
  From what I see the less costly religions would have had an advantage over atheism, at least in the past when medical technology wasn't that good. The placebo effect is real, so if you need to ignore pain for the good of the tribe, and there's no one else around except God/etc, it's a lot easier for nonatheists to self-administer the placebo...
  
  Belief in some hockey/football/sport team is unlikely to work as well for stuff like that, but it might cause you to bash up believers in other teams.
  
  From history it seems easy to get groups of people to kill others, God and religion need not be involved at all - many of the top genocides in the last century were not caused by religion.
  --
  
  Too many replies beneath your current threshold
57. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 22:30 · Score: 0
  
  Do you believe in the Sun God Ra? No? Why not? Do you have proof He doesn't exist? What's that? No?
  To an Ancient Egyptian you're an atheist. You say, who cares, it's a dead religion anyway! Well, I hope the same thing can be said about all religions in 2000 years' time!
58. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 22:45 · Score: 0
  
  I'm sure the 100 million dead must have been happy about that.
  
  With thinking and justifications like that, you must be a religious fanatic too whether you realize it or not.
59. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 23:02 · Score: 0
  
  Bubba, your very large friend in St Quentin, would like to speak to you in the showers.
60. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by khallow · 2012-07-20 23:51 · Score: 1
  
  So what is the problem? The confrontational style or Dawkins not stepping up his game? Sounds to me like it's the latter.
  
  As for me, I haven't read much of Dawkins and don't see the point to reading any of that particular debate over religion.
61. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2012-07-21 01:27 · Score: 1
  
  According to my Muslim friends here in Stockholm (where daylight currently runs from ~0430 to ~2130), fasting for 12 hours a day is considered sufficient to meet their Ramadan obligation.
  
  --
  Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
62. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-21 01:43 · Score: 0
  
  My, aren't you the clever one.
  There's a midnight showing of Thelma and Louise tonight at the Bijou. Wanna go?
63. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Celarent+Darii · 2012-07-21 01:50 · Score: 1
  
  Lent is 40 days before Easter, Advent 4 weeks before Christmas, both traditionally days of fast and abstinence. The Second Vatican Council pretty much eliminated them however.
64. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-21 02:40 · Score: 0
  
  The same way you can have a "War on Christmas" over here?
65. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-21 03:02 · Score: 0
  
  No, porn encourages us to breed, and (for many people) gives us some new ideas for enjoying sex with our mates. I will further add that the "waste of time" argument can apply to *any* form of recreation, and it is wrong in all cases (having fun relieves stress and makes us happy).
  Also, porn does not encourage us to do evil things like:
  1) deny homosexuals the right to marry and raise children.
  2) deny women the right to terminate unwanted pregnancies
  3) go kill the infidels
  4) donate far more than we can afford to a ministry on deceptive promises of miraculous returns
  5) reject scientific data because it contradicts something written in an ancient myth
66. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-21 03:33 · Score: 0
  
  I am an atheist, I made no secret of it when I visited Indonesia. The reaction of the Indonesians was interesting:
  The only way Indonesians can make sense of atheism is by assuming that the atheist must be a communist.
67. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by ryzvonusef · 2012-07-21 03:40 · Score: 1
  
  Guess what he had for breakfast? A couple of fried eggs. It was completely retarded.
  Then it's his fault for not having a proper breakfast, isn't it? Him fasting has nothing to do with it.
  
  --
  I am an ACCA student. Got a query on Accountancy/Finance? Maybe I can help!
68. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-21 05:17 · Score: 0
  
  They don't enforce it...at least they didn't 20 years ago when I was there. They even had a joke where people said they were "ID Islamic" i.e. Islamic only for the ID card.
69. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-07-21 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  .I wonder how they enforce that. All someone would have to do is not openly admit to being an atheist.
  
  Well, if that part comes from Sharia, then being an atheist is not a crime - declaring one an atheist is.
  The worldly Islamic Law, in general, is concerned with behavior of people, not their thoughts, on the grounds that certain kinds of behavior provide bad example for the others who would then go on and commit sins. So, presumably, if you're an atheist, or, say, a Muslim apostate, then God will punish you with fiery hell in the afterlife, and that takes care of that. But if you go around telling people there's no God, some will believe you and follow you, and now you are a real threat to the Ummah - and so they take you away and punish you for that (and then you still get God's punishment in hell for the other part).
  This, by the way, is why fundie Islamic rules of conquest are not "convert or die", but rather "submit or die". "Submit" here means you have to follow their laws, not necessarily believe in their faith backing those laws.
70. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-21 09:26 · Score: 0
  
  Better religious education is urgently needed, so the voting public can distinguish dangerous facism from relatively benign belief systems
71. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by interkin3tic · 2012-07-21 16:18 · Score: 1
  
  Well, no, I'm an agnostic. I'm not convinced of either side. Anyone who says they know one way or the other must know something I don't.
72. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by The+Wild+Norseman · 2012-07-21 17:48 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder if you could just point out that atheism by some standards is just as much a religion as theism.
  Oh, this old canard again? Yawn.
  
  You believe there are no gods,
  
  Firstly, a lack of evidence isn't a belief no matter how hard the theists try and spin it. Secondly, the null hypothesis states that gods do not exist unless evidence is shown for them.
  
  you can prove it only as much as one can prove there ARE gods.
  Thirdly, on those rare occasions where a theist puts forth a coherent, rational god concept, it's found to be easily disproven, thus your statements are incorrect.
  
  --
  "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
73. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by interkin3tic · 2012-07-21 19:55 · Score: 1
  
  I was unclear. I was saying that as an agnostic, I don't see how either side are so sure of themselves. There's no clear evidence that I can see either way. So, to me, atheists and theists both are making unproven assertions of faith.
74. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by The+Wild+Norseman · 2012-07-22 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  I was unclear. I was saying that as an agnostic, I don't see how either side are so sure of themselves. There's no clear evidence that I can see either way. So, to me, atheists and theists both are making unproven assertions of faith.
  Oh, alright, I appreciate your clarification.
  My main point is that, depending on what god is described, it certainly can be (and has been) disproven. In these instances, it is not a mere assertion that this particular god doesn't exist. Also, due to the null hypothesis, it's reasonable, rational, and logical (i.e., normal) to have a stance toward any god-concept to be that it/they do not exist without providing some sort of positive evidence of that existence. Again, no faith required for the null hypothesis; in other words, no faith is required to firmly state that gods do not exist without having some evidence to support this existence.
  There is also ample evidence that gods have been and are invented by humans and do not have any kind of existence outside of imagination. So there is that then as well.
  Any way you slice it, there is simply no equivalence between theists and atheists, even if some atheists have arrived at their particular conclusions in an illogical or purely irrational manner. The irrationality of some atheists and their particular manner of concluding the non-existence of gods does in no way support the theist perspective of the existence of gods.
  
  --
  "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
75. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by camperslo · 2012-07-22 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  It would likely be more fitting for pride month festivities than for a religious event, but it would be different to have a holiday with colorful auroras to watch. In that spirit, maybe an event should last a Carrington rotation instead of a month?
  Techno / disco beach resort at the north pole after the ice melts?
  http://www2.gi.alaska.edu/images/plot_ace.png
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/anakin1814/7578749634/in/photostream/
76. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by cthulhu11 · 2012-07-22 20:07 · Score: 1
  
  >Now, of course, organized religion is a problem, particularly when accepted without question. Any time that you accept a ready-made philosophy from a powerful organization, you have to assume that the organization has designed that philosophy to protect its interests.
  
  Sophistry. My ex's coven had a name, a hierarchy, structured meetings that were frequent and scheduled. There were like seven of them, hardly "powerful". Max Kolbe's religion led him to save someone else's life at the cost of his own. Please explain how this is "a problem".
North Sumatra by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 11:54 · Score: 1

Simbiring is a name from North Sumatra. Perhaps he doesn't like the internet at all?
Please draw...... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 12:00 · Score: 2, Funny

your best ascii art mohamed below.
1. Re:Please draw...... by philip.paradis · 2012-07-20 15:36 · Score: 1
  
  mohamed
  There, that's in ASCII, and I call it art. Don't judge me, it's art. IT'S ART.
  
  --
  Write failed: Broken pipe
2. Re:Please draw...... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 19:30 · Score: 1
  
  Mo on little Aisha
  
  O=}==)====
  >>o}=v==
3. Re:Please draw...... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 22:28 · Score: 0
  
  *-O(:~{>
  Here is Mohammed with a bomb on his head.
4. Re:Please draw...... by doesnothingwell · 2012-07-21 05:54 · Score: 2
  
  (:O:) Oh, you meant his face.
  
  --
  They can have my command prompt when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
A Million Sites? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 12:01 · Score: 0

What is that, 0.0001% of the total?
Why bother? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2012-07-20 12:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

Given the libido-suppressive effects of caloric restriction, wouldn't it make more sense to step up their precious little moral crusade(jihad?) during all non-ramadan periods and slack off during that month?
1. Re:Why bother? by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 12:30 · Score: 1
  
  You misunderstood. You actually feast on spicy specially-made food in the evening, making you more satisfied about everything, and making you more horny.
2. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 12:51 · Score: 0, Funny
  
  I want an intercontinental ballistic penis to deliver pornographic propaganda to the entire country.
  If that fails, we can always send nukes later.
3. Re:Why bother? by million_monkeys · 2012-07-20 14:07 · Score: 1
  
  This is very confusing. I wish someone would just make a plot of horniness versus day of the year so we could see whether there was a spike around Ramadan. This is slashdot, surely there's enough horny geeks to be able to pull this off. And now that i've mentioned it, i wonder if there's some way to objectively measure horniness?
4. Re:Why bother? by bky1701 · 2012-07-20 14:13 · Score: 1
  
  Fasting is not really fasting. You fast in the day, have a buffet nightly at sundown. It's one of those weird things religions do while saying they do something else.
  
  --
  Great Intellect...
5. Re:Why bother? by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 14:39 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Er, they do fast. They fast for 12 hours a day, without water or food. If you try it for one day, you will understand how difficult it is (and you would also understand what being hungry means, which basically is the purpose). You start running low on blood sugar in about 6 hours, you feeling really thirsty in about 5-6 hours. And all of this, while you perform your regular duties, which is really tough when you are low on blood sugar and thirsty.
6. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 16:48 · Score: 1
  
  But if you push past that and just keep your mouth wet, your hunger and thirst mostly goes away. You'll have less energy and get tried more easily but you won't feel too bad. You'll start to get a little light headed after the first day and a half. Once your mouth starts almost instantly going dry you'll be passing out if you don't take it very easy.
  I'm speaking from experience. I had a stupid suicide attempt where I was too depressed and didn't drink anything for 2.5 days and didn't eat anything for a little over 3 days (took around 1/2 a day to get enough strength back to eat. If you mess up some blood levels while recovering you die). After the initial hunger went away, I actually felt better than I had in a long time (one reason it failed). I didn't feel like passing out until around 2.3 days and passed out once (almost three times) around 2.4. My bookbag felt so heavy to carry and just as bad when dragging it along the ground (I was at college).
  It was an interesting experience and made me stronger. I no longer worry about missing a meal or two or if I'll have enough to drink when I get stuck someplace for .5-1 days due to poor travel conditions. I know my limits.
7. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 16:51 · Score: 0
  
  It's really not that hard. I used to do 36 hour fasts (after dinner day 1 to before breakfast day 3) on a weekly basis, and while I'd get a headache around the 20-hour mark, and would be hungry then too, a sunup to sundown fast is quite easy for most healthy people.
8. Re:Why bother? by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 18:10 · Score: 1
  
  Try coding when your brain is telling you that is too tired, and let me know how it works.
9. Re:Why bother? by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 18:14 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I bet you drank water (most likely with some electrolytes or juice). And point is not that it is really tough, but it is remind you of what hunger feels like for 30 days, every year. Also, when your break your fast together as a community, you bond with other members of the community (you also realize, irrespective of how rich or how poor you are, you are all very very similar, and share experiences. Its a beautiful thing in my opinion). Also you must know difficult it is to concentrate or code or play chess, when your brain is telling you that it is tired and asking you to go to sleep.
10. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 19:26 · Score: 1
  
  > And all of this, while you perform your regular duties
  That's plain wrong. In Ramadan, you sleep during the day (even if you have work to do), and have fun in the evening. No one really works during that month, the crime rate skyrockets (put a mob of hungry, thirsty and sleep-deprived shoppers in a small mall and see what happens).
  Source: Me, I live in a country where the majority observe Ramadan, and it sucks. I call it "the lost month." Just yesterday I've seen a woman yelling at her husband, shouting that he enjoys sucking dick and have a monster of anus and then receiving the beating of her life.That's Ramadan.
11. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 20:35 · Score: 0
  
  Given the libido-suppressive effects of caloric restriction...
  What, the effect of fatigue? Caloric restriction can stimulate production of endorphins. Not eating is an aphrodisiac, and probably one of the least offensive tasting ones.
12. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-21 05:39 · Score: 0
  
  muslims against the world right, bonding community, why should non muslims be happy about such a threat?
13. Re:Why bother? by The+Wild+Norseman · 2012-07-21 17:41 · Score: 1
  
  This is slashdot, surely there's enough horny geeks to be able to pull this off.
  This is slashdot -- most geeks are surely pulling it off, probably nearly every night.
  
  --
  "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
What is the problem? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 12:06 · Score: -1, Troll

A foreign government representing a foreign country which is mostly Muslim decides to implement Muslim laws. Why is this an issue?
Surely we should be more worried about what /we/ do - whether that's doing things which would be undemocratic to our demographic, or trying to push our values onto foreigners.
1. Re:What is the problem? by Austerity+Empowers · 2012-07-20 12:25 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  That is a worthy notion, as we are just as bad about letting our dominant religion limit our freedom. Here in the US, our own dominant religious element has decided for us:
  - Prostitution will be illegal (mostly), in spite of the high demand
  - Alcohol is restricted, in some places illegal to sell at all times, in others illegal to sell at certain times (frequently Sunday mornings)
  - Same sex partners cannot have a legally binding marriage, with full benefits
  - You may be married to one, and only one person (who must be of the opposite sex) at any given time (granted, I don't think our legal system could handle the larger case, presently)
  - In some settings you may be limited about what you can say on certain topics (sex, evolution, religion, etc.)
  - "G.D." is a forbidden expression on television
  It's true some of these things may HAVE BEEN democratic at one point or another, but are enshrined now. You can't, say, change alcohol laws without a small but vocal minority trying to get you unseated from government. It was democracy for our grandparents, but it's dictatorial for us.
2. Re:What is the problem? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 13:40 · Score: 0
  
  In my home town, it was illegal to open shops on Sunday.
  So people would go shopping the next town over.. and it was killing local business.
  I think my father took things a bit too far though. He was raised an orthodox jew which he hated being.
  At a very young age he drilled into his kids, "What is religion?" and we would call out, "The opiate of the masses!"
  My sisters both married catholics. Our rabbi who I thought was a nice guy refused to marry them so we never went back to temple.
  One sister converted to catholicism for her husband, who left her. The son was told in his teens, when he started bullying jews, well actually you are a jew yourself! Blew his mind.
  My father started telling his grandchildren how great Jesus was and the other sister's children were raised as catholics too. But recently they started being taught their heritage too.
  On a recent business trip to a muslim country my father emphasized, if anyone asks tell them you are protestant! I'm not practising but I still don't know if it would have put me in danger if someone asked and I said I was jewish.
  So I would say you are right, and like my Dad says, more people have been killed in the world due to religion than anything else.
  However the Christian idea of charity is something I think we should try to keep or remake so that it can be taught to all people, in a non-religious form if possible.
  Another thing, it is really freaky how many movies about war (well Guns of Navarone is a great flick but) are shown around the anniversary of the end of WWII.
  I think the U.S. church and national government intentionally collude to maintain a very low level of intelligence, very low morals and highly warlike traits in order to maintain control over its own populace and the rest of the world. We are in a permanent state of war and to govern now means to cynically control with lack of responsibility in any form.
  Having lived outside the U.S. for a number of years and gradually becoming horrified at what it has become, I am very sad to remember the phrase, that people get the government they deserve. I think the U.S. deserves better and a lot of the problems come from the deeply entrenched attitudes taught by a conglomerate of cynically controlling groups which include religious, government and other leaders.
  There is a lot of cognitive dissonance in the U.S. culture and it seems possible to me that mixed with high technology and police/military hardware, it has become a statistical certainty that there will be mass murders like the one at the theater by people we would like to simply label "crazies" on a periodic basis. When we have made them crazy. If you think it is going to far, consider that as the ultimate fringe on the end of the bell curve. Most people are crazy to a lesser extent. But still nuts.
3. Re:What is the problem? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 14:06 · Score: 0
  
  Alcohol is what you single out? What about all the other drugs? Mostly banned because some "evil" minority race uses them.
4. Re:What is the problem? by bky1701 · 2012-07-20 14:17 · Score: 0
  
  Actually, they're banned because the majority are addicting and cause long-term damage. Pot causes lung cancer more effectively than cigarettes. That alone means it ought to stay banned.
  
  In any case, those are not banned for religious reasons. Alcohol generally is.
  
  --
  Great Intellect...
5. Re:What is the problem? by khallow · 2012-07-20 14:28 · Score: 1
  
  Pot causes lung cancer more effectively than cigarettes.
  
  That's an interesting theory. Have any evidence for the assertion, especially keeping in mind that the two drugs are used differently.
  
  That alone means it ought to stay banned.
  
  Nonsense. Even if the allegation is true, so what? I have no trouble at all with people doing harmful things to themselves or even killing themselves. It's their right.
6. Re:What is the problem? by Cwix · 2012-07-20 14:50 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  http://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/news/20060523/pot-smoking-not-linked-to-lung-cancer
  You're wrong.
  
  May 23, 2006 -- People who smoke marijuana do not appear to be at increased risk for developing lung cancer, new research suggests.
  While a clear increase in cancer risk was seen among cigarette smokers in the study, no such association was seen for regular cannabis users.
  Even very heavy, long-term marijuana users who had smoked more than 22,000 joints over a lifetime seemed to have no greater risk than infrequent marijuana users or nonusers.
  The findings surprised the study’s researchers, who expected to see an increase in cancer among people who smoked marijuana regularly in their youth.
  See what happens when you don't look up the stuff you hear? You look silly.
  
  --
  You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
7. Re:What is the problem? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 15:14 · Score: 0
  
  Dissolve the active ingredients in butter, bake cupcakes, cancer free high!
8. Re:What is the problem? by Raenex · 2012-07-20 15:17 · Score: 1
  
  It's true some of these things may HAVE BEEN democratic at one point or another, but are enshrined now. You can't, say, change alcohol laws without a small but vocal minority trying to get you unseated from government. It was democracy for our grandparents, but it's dictatorial for us.
  I'm sorry, did some dictator take away the right to vote? If not, then stop your whining, get out, and campaign on your issue. Vocal minorities have rights too.
9. Re:What is the problem? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 15:55 · Score: 0
  
  The drugs that are banned without being massively addictive in the US (and most of the world) are because of hallucinogenic effects. My thought is that this is because shamanistic religions use them to communicate with other worlds or the future.
10. Re:What is the problem? by Austerity+Empowers · 2012-07-20 16:22 · Score: 1
  
  Let's pretend pot does cause lung cancer. I'm not sure why it should be your choice to keep me from killing myself, as long as I am debt free and my children have reached majority. I think you get a say in the latter two cases because in that case my legacy DOES affect you. I understand there are some health-care corner cases, maybe a waiver needs signing. But as a responsible adult I think I ought to be able to ruin myself if I choose.
  Actually this adds one more to my list:
  - Government prohibition against suicide. As far as I can tell this comes from religion.
11. Re:What is the problem? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 16:30 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, they have the right to be ignored if they are penniless, and pandered to if they are an important demographic. Only having lots of money or a large majority voting bloc will get you anything from government. The grand experiment is a failure. The federalists were wrong.
12. Re:What is the problem? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 16:54 · Score: -1
  
  That alone means it ought to stay banned.
  Nonsense. Even if the allegation is true, so what? I have no trouble at all with people doing harmful things to themselves or even killing themselves. It's their right.
  I agree with this notion, but the problem to consider is medical care. If we force drug users to pay upfront for illnesses (or, else, drop dead without any care) caused by their own stupidity then this is workable, otherwise you're just setting up a cost that non-drug users must indirectly cover via taxes (whether the system is single-payer or just defaulting on hospital bills).
13. Re:What is the problem? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 16:57 · Score: 0
  
  Suicide causes tons of problems for those who knew the person. It's in societies best interest that random people don't kill themselves, especially when others didn't know they were feeling miserable and hopeless.
  It causes a lot of grief for the person thinking about suicide due to the thoughts of getting in trouble with the law for failing. Whether justified or not, I know one person that had a lot of stress because of this. They'll want to stay in hiding and won't want to get help for fear of getting in trouble or being locked away and labeled as crazy instead.
  Though I do agree that religion plays a role, it just might not be as big as you think.
14. Re:What is the problem? by khallow · 2012-07-20 17:15 · Score: 1
  
  If we force drug users to pay upfront for illnesses (or, else, drop dead without any care) caused by their own stupidity then this is workable, otherwise you're just setting up a cost that non-drug users must indirectly cover via taxes (whether the system is single-payer or just defaulting on hospital bills).
  I have no problem with that. Or with non-drug users paying the consequences of their stupid policy decisions.
  
  I notice you fail to turn this creative rationalizing against legal drugs such as tobacco and alcohol.
15. Re:What is the problem? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 18:31 · Score: 0
  
  Actually, they're banned because the majority are addicting and cause long-term damage. Pot causes lung cancer more effectively than cigarettes. That alone means it ought to stay banned.
  Care to quote any studies? Total bullshit, this claim.
  Alcohol and tobacco are far more addictive and harmful (individually and societally) than Marijuana, LSD, and numerous other illegal substances.
16. Re:What is the problem? by houghi · 2012-07-20 19:07 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Don't forget that the female nipple can not be shown either. If you do, there will be a huge public outcry.
  The female nipple is dangerous for children, or something like that.
  
  --
  Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
17. Re:What is the problem? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 22:33 · Score: 0
  
  At a very young age he drilled into his kids, "What is religion?" and we would call out, "The opiate of the masses!"
  We are all individuals!
  (I'm not!)
18. Re:What is the problem? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-21 01:02 · Score: 0
  
  In the case of cannabis, it's to keep the nigras and the migras from using it to seduce innocent young white girls.
19. Re:What is the problem? by Austerity+Empowers · 2012-07-21 09:20 · Score: 1
  
  If I'm diagnosed with terminal cancer, I would like the option to end it up front, rather than spend all my savings and/or suffer for a long period of time. Yeah yeah "a miracle COULD happen", but I think I, and I alone should make that choice.
  Suicide could be solved if we wanted to. The government could give people a quick, painless death provided they settle their financial affairs and responsibilities first. Although I do not have much faith in psychology (or any social science) as science, if we want to screen people who are merely depressed, that's something we can discuss, on the merits of the issue alone.
  I do not think other people's emotional concerns should be paramount in this. Grown adults should have the capacity to handle the loss of loved ones, regardless of how it happened. All the government should provide for is to ensure it is done responsibly.
Just so we're clear, by MyFirstNameIsPaul · 2012-07-20 12:07 · Score: 1

Did they block the Internet, or was it the World Wide Web?

--
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real soon. by dgatwood · 2012-07-20 12:09 · Score: 1

You can take away their rights, and you can take away their money, but take away their porn, and the people will revolt. :-D

--
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
This really does sound like Lent... by undefinedreference · 2012-07-20 12:15 · Score: 1

With filtering in place, the fact they allowed access to pornographic websites before Ramadan is what confuses me. Was this like the Indonesian Internet version of Mardi Gras?
You no the rules: by Black+Parrot · 2012-07-20 12:15 · Score: 1

No porn on holy days.

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by erroneus · 2012-07-20 12:18 · Score: 1

You got that right.
If a religion is to be followed faithfully, how does it help to "force" someone to follow it? Religion and faith HAVE to be a choice or else it is neither. These religious zealots aren't particularly religious are they?
One million? by TimHunter · 2012-07-20 12:21 · Score: 4, Informative

Okay, possibly I'm stupid or out of touch, but I've been around the interwebs for a while and seen my share of stuff. It just doesn't seem likely that there are a million porn sites. I wouldn't have guessed 1 million in the world, and certainly not 1 million that the Indonesian government can block.
Here's an article in Forbes article that says

In 2010, out of the million most popular (most trafficked) websites in the world, 42,337 were sex-related sites.

That's a far cry from 1 million. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/julieruvolo/2011/09/07/how-much-of-the-internet-is-actually-for-porn/)
Maybe they mean 1 million pages. Or maybe there are a million sites that only host a single drawing of Mickey banging Minnie doggie-style. Or maybe they mean something different by the word "pornographic." But 1 million pornhubs? 1 million redtubes? I'm having a hard time believing this.
1. Re:One million? by alphatel · 2012-07-20 12:42 · Score: 1
  
  It just doesn't seem likely that there are a million porn sites. I wouldn't have guessed 1 million in the world, and certainly not 1 million that the Indonesian government can block.
  Reddit cableporn
  chair porn
  furrysex
  
  That's a few billion right there. "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again." Also porn. George Bush saying "awesome", porn. You get the picture. If not pray to Mohammed for forgiveness or whatever he is offering this holiday season.
  
  --
  When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
2. Re:One million? by bky1701 · 2012-07-20 14:22 · Score: 2
  
  The fact you only think of the major ones does not mean there are minor. There are several huge sites which eclipse the others, but a million porn sites is an incredibly low-ball number considering the number of sites on the internet. I am not sure how to go about getting statistics on this, unfortunately.
  
  --
  Great Intellect...
3. Re:One million? by gman003 · 2012-07-20 15:56 · Score: 2
  
  Wait wait wait.
  Your argument is that there are less than 1 million porn sites, and you cite an article that examines ONLY one million sites. Do I even need to point out the flaw in that reasoning?
  Still, let's suppose that your 42,000/1,000,000 figure is true. There are somewhere between 300,000,000 and 6,800,000,000 websites, total, which (using naive extrapolation) gives between 13,000,000 and 290,000,000 pornographic websites. And I for one would bet that porn tends more to the "many sites with low traffic" style than average.
  In any case, this source lists 4.2 million sites, and this study lists 260 million porn pages online as of 2003 - do your own estimates for average pages per site and extrapolate towards today if you wish.
  Part of the proliferation is just how the business works. They tend to buy up many domains, one for each "series" almost, and combine them into one "package". They commonly refer to this as "affiliate" sites. So that inflates things a bit. Then there's the rather large number of free sites that just rehost content. Then all the camwhore sites. And some "dating" sites are classed as pornography for obvious reasons.
  tl;dr there's a TON of porn out there
4. Re:One million? by theygoto11 · 2012-07-20 16:06 · Score: 1
  
  How about they let us see the list so we can judge for ourselves.
5. Re:One million? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 22:08 · Score: 0
  
  Ah, ah, ah ... "Mickey banging Minnie doggie-style." Can't be, must be mousie-style. My Logitech just slid off my desk in self-defense.... Rats, down to keyboard commands to complete this post.
the ringside view by harvey+the+nerd · 2012-07-20 12:27 · Score: 1

It will be interesting to see where the wrath of god strikes after this.
1. Re:the ringside view by alphatel · 2012-07-20 13:16 · Score: 1
  
  It will be interesting to see where the wrath of god strikes after this.
  God and His wrath are never on strike. The might have a slowdown if wages are not raised though.
  
  --
  When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by grcumb · 2012-07-20 12:31 · Score: 4, Informative

You can take away their rights, and you can take away their money, but take away their porn, and the people will revolt. :-D
*sigh*
I think it would be fairer to say that you can take away their money, their rights and their lives, but that story won't get posted on Slashdot until it involves porn.
The Indonesian government and military have tried to maintain a complete media blackout on the ongoing human rights abuses -including torture and murder- in the occupied territory of West Papua, which was annexed while the world looked away. This oppression has been going on for a generation, but nobody chooses to care, because of Indonesia's status as the largest pro-US muslim country in the world.
But yeah, boobs. Let's support those horny Indonesians by slashdotting bringbacktheporn.com. That'll get the add revenue going.

--
Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
To paraphrase Princess Leia by TWX · 2012-07-20 12:37 · Score: 1

The more you tighten your grip, Indonesia, the more pornography will slip through your fingers...

--
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
1. Re:To paraphrase Princess Leia by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 18:15 · Score: 0
  
  Dunno about that, but there's definitely more chafing.
Minor detail by girlintraining · 2012-07-20 12:38 · Score: 1

Not that very many here care, but it started yesterday.

--
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by H0p313ss · 2012-07-20 12:41 · Score: 2

You can take away their rights, and you can take away their money, but take away their porn, and the people will revolt. :-D
I guess you don't know much about Indonesian history then, they overthrew their dictator 14 years ago. That said, even in the 80's Indonesia was one of the most liberal of muslim countries, and since 1998 have become one of the most democratic as well.
From a western perspective they still have a long way to go, but they are a million miles ahead of the "Arab Spring" countries.
It's a beautiful country full of beautiful, kind, gentle people. Please learn more before you shoot your mouth off.

--
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by dgatwood · 2012-07-20 12:45 · Score: 1

You do realize that my post was entirely in jest, right?

--
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 12:46 · Score: 0

http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.005
"
009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
"
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/019-smt.php#019.4366
(hadith - not quran - but - highly reguarded as 'things muhammed himself did and said')
"
Book 019, Number 4363:
It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira who said: We were (sitting) in the mosque when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) came to us and said: (Let us) go to the Jews. We went out with him until we came to them. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) stood up and called out to them (saying): O ye assembly of Jews, accept Islam (and) you will be safe. They said: Abu'l-Qasim, you have communicated (God's Message to us). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I want this (i. e. you should admit that God's Message has been communicated to you), accept Islam and you would be safe. They said: Abu'l-Qisim, you have communicated (Allah's Message). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I want this... - He said to them (the same words) the third time (and on getting the same reply) he added: You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I wish that I should expel you from this land Those of you who have any property with them should sell it, otherwise they should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle (and they may have to go away leaving everything behind).
Book 019, Number 4364:
It has been narrated on the authority of Ibn Umar that the Jews of Banu Nadir and Banu Quraizi fought against the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who expelled Banu Nadir, and allowed Quraiza to stay on, and granted favour to them until they too fought against him Then he killed their men, and distributed their women, children and properties among the Muslims, except that some of them had joined the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who granted them security. They embraced Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) turned out all the Jews of Medlina. Banu Qainuqa' (the tribe of 'Abdullah b. Salim) and the Jews of Banu Haritha and every other Jew who was in Medina.
Book 019, Number 4365:
A similar hadith has been transmitted by a different chain of narrators, but the hadith narrated by Ibn Juraij is more detailed and complete.
Book 019, Number 4366:
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
Book 019, Number 4367:
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zubair with the same chain of transmitters.
"
soo.. there you go.
but the quran says 'let there be no compulsion in religion'
so.. which do you believe - the writings of muhammed or the actions of same..
also side note - if the quran is the infallable word of god, how can it be FLAT OUT WRONG about christianity?
Princess Leia never saw space porn like this by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 12:55 · Score: 0

I find the tighter my grip, the stickier things become.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 13:05 · Score: 0

Until the filthy vermin blow up nightclubs full of Australian tourists.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by Mashiki · 2012-07-20 13:13 · Score: 1

You mean like the arab spring in egypt? Yeah, looks like that one is only going to put womens rights back a few hundred years. Cheer it on man, cheer it on.

--
Om, nomnomnom...
1 million websites by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 13:16 · Score: 0

Why censor only a small minority of porn sites?
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 13:18 · Score: 1

There is a lot of discontent in the populace though. The country has large muslim majority, which fairly poor, and a Chinese & Indian minority that is largely wealthy. Now and they you will see this discontent in politics (politicians appease the wealthy for their money, and during elections somehow try to appease the majority). I wouldnt be surprised to see riots break out if this continues (and censorship, might just be the tipping point). I agree GP's comparison to Libya was wrong, but portraying a a rosy picture doesnt do any good either.
Repeat after me... by cvtan · 2012-07-20 13:20 · Score: 1

Religious governments are a bad idea. Religious governments are a bad idea. Religious governments are a bad idea.

--
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
1. Re:Repeat after me... by dbIII · 2012-07-20 13:48 · Score: 2
  
  They are less of a religious government than what you have in the USA but they still do things like this to keep some religious voters happy.
2. Re:Repeat after me... by bky1701 · 2012-07-20 14:24 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, it's ashame most countries have them.
  
  --
  Great Intellect...
3. Re:Repeat after me... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 19:53 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe you should adjust your meds. There are people in Indonesia imprisoned for simply being atheists. In the US, the worst we atheists can usually expect is local cops looking the other way on a beat-down by some (non-government) hillbillies. That's just one counterexample to your hyperbole.
  - T
4. Re:Repeat after me... by dbIII · 2012-07-21 01:07 · Score: 1
  
  Please provide a reported example instead of expecting me to trust an AC on faith.
5. Re:Repeat after me... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-21 02:36 · Score: 0
  
  More than that I want to know if he read the unbiased/mistranslated/misquoted news. The recent news about Indonesian man jailed was not because he is an atheist, but religious defamation.
6. Re:Repeat after me... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-23 07:14 · Score: 0
  
  More than that I want to know if he read the unbiased/mistranslated/misquoted news.
  Depends on the story. I was thinking of this one:
  
  Aan was arrested earlier this year for posting "There is no God" on the social networking website Facebook.
  According to another source, he was also charged for posting blasphemous cartoons. There are other threads here with links to news from Indonesia; might be the same incidents, might not - I didn't peruse those.
  
  The recent news about Indonesian man jailed was not because he is an atheist, but religious defamation.
  The links I found (on the *first* Google page if you're reading this dbIII) state otherwise, but even if that were the case, my point stands. "Piss Christ" didn't get Mapplethorpe jailed roughly two decades ago during Bush 41's presidency, and he wouldn't be jailed now. Equating the US with Indonesia in this area is hyperbole, and dbIII went beyond that to write that the US government is *more* religious.
  - T
7. Re:Repeat after me... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-23 08:48 · Score: 0
  
  Links in my response to the other AC.
  I'm not aware of any case in the US where someone was jailed for posting "There is no God" on Facebook, nor for posting blasphemous cartoons, whether of the Prophet, the Christ, the Pope, or whomever. Simply put, apostasy and blasphemy are not crimes here.
  The links I found for you were on the first page of a trivial Google search. Now, I don't expect you to do my research for me, but I think it's reasonable for you to at least check around a little before (unintentionally?) posting inflammatory assertions.
  - T
Food Temptation? by Azure+Flash · 2012-07-20 13:26 · Score: 2

Maybe they should block sites where they sell, show or discuss food, too, in order to avoid tempting them.
1. Re:Food Temptation? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-21 00:54 · Score: 0
  
  As an Indonesian, I kid you not, the unspoken rule while Ramadhan here is that you are not supposed to run food-related advertising on TV or radio on fasting hours.
  Restaurants must block their entrance with sheet/bamboo shade/whatever so that people on the street cant see people eating inside or to get in visual contact of the food. They also have to make sure the smell does not entice people who fasting too, so either cook your food 3 in the morning, or just when the feast is about to take place. I recall there were sweeping done by religious group called FPI (short for "Front Pembela Islam" or in English "Islam Defender Front" go ahead google them) 2 or 3 years ago, they were cracking down small mom and pop stalls —like a police busting a crack house— just because they sell to-go breads and drinks on fasting hours. They also make rounds on motorcycles (usually in a convoy with open lorry small-trucks mounting mosque-loudspeakers) intimidating business, food-related or not, to respect the fasting month.
  So yeah, to tempt them is a no no too.
  This year, from the news, the police prohibit them from doing those kind of sweepings but yeah we'll know soon enough whether they'll listen to the police or not, yet again.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by dbIII · 2012-07-20 13:45 · Score: 2

Yes, but there are regional revolts still under way in parts of Indonesia and an earlier major one didn't really stop until the Tsunami.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by Panoptes · 2012-07-20 14:07 · Score: 4, Interesting

ThatsMyNick makes valid points; let me take them further. Here in Indonesia, come Ramadan there's always a mad rush for clerics and politicos to do an "I'm holier than thou" act. Draconian pledges and swingeing action plans that turn out to be mere wishful thinking thunder from the media and every soapbox in the country - but they're all chimeras, sops to the gangs of religious fanatics that plague Indonesia. In reality this is one of the most tolerant Muslim communities in the world, but the proverbial few bad apples spoil the barrel.

Indonesia is in the Internet stone age. The country is rated near the very bottom of Internet provision - way below many third-world and developing countries. Those of us who 'enjoy' broadband pay through the nose for a seriously flawed and inadequate service, and we're laughing out loud at the very notion that the muppets who run our IT services can filter anything other than their monthly pay cheques.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by bky1701 · 2012-07-20 14:19 · Score: 1

The Arab Spring ended up installing Islamist governments. I think you need to pay more attention to world events. This is certainly what the people of Indonesia want; that is the problem.

--
Great Intellect...
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by khallow · 2012-07-20 14:46 · Score: 1

Eh, a similar "spring" happened in Europe in 1848. It didn't lead to a lot of positive near future change, only a few countries went more democratic (though the UK was a notable example), but I think it was a step towards the present mostly democratic and peaceful Europe that exists today. So sure, it doesn't look all that great in the short term, but we may feel differently about it a century or two from now.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by myowntrueself · 2012-07-20 14:51 · Score: 2

Of course a Muslim might argue that you cannot understand the Koran unless you read it in the original Arabic. Apparently the Arabic language is untranslatable into any other language and therefore cannot be learned by anyone who doesn't grow up with it as their mother tongue. So I guess noone who doesn't grow up with Arabic language can ever understand the Koran.
I've actually had quite well educated and otherwise intelligent Muslims lay down the 'you cannot understand the Koran except in Arabic' line on me. Its a logical fallacy.

--
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by Mashiki · 2012-07-20 14:53 · Score: 1

Yeah something similar also happened in Russia and China too. Last time I looked the body count was ~250 million dead in their own purges removing "undesirables" and I'm sure that worked out well for them as well. Here's the thing a lot of people forget, Islam isn't just a religion. It's a military, and political doctrine as well. Not to mention a few other things.
And in countries where ruling parties have it as the forefront in, and of, the law of the land. People suffer, and those that suffer the most are minorities, women, and anyone who isn't a muslim.

--
Om, nomnomnom...
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 15:06 · Score: 0

LOL
<dgatwood> Why did the chicken cross the road?
<H0p313ss> Chickens don't do that. They blah blah blah. Please learn more before you shoot your mouth off.
The correct answer is: To get to the other side of H0p313ss's sense of humor, and it's one hell of a long walk!
Ramadan the best time to masturbate to online porn by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 15:45 · Score: 0

Given such a precise time, I guess Ramadan is the best time to masturbate to online porn.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by khallow · 2012-07-20 16:22 · Score: 1

Yeah something similar also happened in Russia and China too.

And a good portion of those body counts are due to ideas hatched in the 1848 "spring". I don't intend this comparison to be fully comforting, but rather to point out a similar situation which in the long term bettered the lives of hundreds of millions, but at terrible cost.
Choice quotes for the Indonesian Government by bmo · 2012-07-20 16:26 · Score: 1

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." -- Princess Leia
http://youtu.be/-wntX-a3jSY
"Did you know that if you put a little hat on a snowball, can last a long time in Hell?" -- Dogbert.
http://i.imgur.com/iFd5w.jpg
--
BMO
that is well said by circletimessquare · 2012-07-20 16:38 · Score: 1

however i fear the egotism of blind strident individualism just as much as egotism of herd behavior
it is the difference between this person (ok):
"i'm just exercising my personal freedom" (smokes weed)
and this person (not ok):
"i'm just exercising my personal freedom" (turns car ignition, drunk)
you can do whatever you please in this world, just as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. the "just as long as it doesn't hurt someone else" is something a lot of people have a problem grasping
freedom, and responsibility. there is not one, without the other

--
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Very Strict. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 16:53 · Score: 0

Indonesia, Maylasia, and Papa New Guina all have very strict internet laws. or have in the past atleast... This is not a new concept but the problem is that they are instilling a sense of pride in this new foundation for an Islamic government. They are teaching their citizens that unless you are a practicing muslim the government will be forced to make decisions for them...
This is very dangerous in my opinion!! The ideals are great, heck, I struggle with a porn addiction myself, but that is between Me and God, not between Me, God and anybody with a badge. Likelly it is an effort for political power engaged by the government or leader....
-- SnappleX
Isn't it wonderful? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 18:27 · Score: 0

This helps reinforce the point that the all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful, eternal, ever-present and prescient deity at the center of the cult of Mohammad, known by many names, but by them called "Allah," needs help defending his supposed good name, by censorship.
Wow, that's some real power, right there... it's almost as though... that "god" doesn't even exist at all, and the whole thing is just the result of dehydration-induced hallucinations, (or maybe a group of outright lies,) a bunch of very credulous idiots, and the sheer, staggering psychological power of random reinforcement.
Religion. How stupid.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by TubeSteak · 2012-07-20 19:00 · Score: 3, Interesting

I've actually had quite well educated and otherwise intelligent Muslims lay down the 'you cannot understand the Koran except in Arabic' line on me. Its a logical fallacy.
Have you ever put 5 or 6 different translations of the bible side by side and compared them?
http://www.biblestudytools.com/exodus/1-8-compare.html
It's really not that far fetched to claim a translation will not do justice to the original language.
I'd even argue that reading a really old book without annotations, even in the original language,
means you're going to miss out on important context that is assumed, suggested, or implied.
Just as an example: Jewish scholars spend decades studying the Talmud in its original Hebrew and Aramaic.
What makes you think a translation will allow for the same kind of understanding?

--
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Re:Ramadan the best time to masturbate to online p by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 19:26 · Score: 0

Busty Burka Lady
( )==={
Naughty Niqab Woman
(:)==={
Angel in an Abaya
(8)==={
Chandor Chandy
(8')==={
Hottie in a Hijab
(8')/\=={
Exercise in Futility by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 20:23 · Score: 1

Indonesian here. The article exaggerates a little on how much it really impacts the people here. Most people here don't care about it, cause most of them know "Where there is a will, there is a way.". They will always find a way to circumvent these restrictions. In fact I just did, change the DNS server, and you're done.
So yeah, the actual situation here is not as bad as the article make it out to be .
1. Re:Exercise in Futility by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 22:56 · Score: 0
  
  Don't bother...this is slashdot. Certain group point-of-view is the "right" answer.
Exercise in Futility by bimozx · 2012-07-20 20:29 · Score: 4, Informative

Indonesian here. The article exaggerates a little on how much it really impacts the people here. Most people here don't care about it, cause most of them know "Where there is a will, there is a way.". They will always find a way to circumvent these restrictions. In fact I just did, change the DNS server, and you're done. So yeah, the actual situation here is not as bad as the article make it out to be .
Islam is pure evil by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 21:02 · Score: 0

www.prophetofdoom.net
Anybody who supports Islam or muslims as 'normal', hasn't read that website, and doesn't understand what Islam actually IS.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 21:10 · Score: 0

What makes you think the divagations of a 54 years old pedophile are worth understanding?
What? by lennier1 · 2012-07-20 21:15 · Score: 1

A million porn sites? They're not even scratching the surface.
Ramadan = Fasting Month for Islam by Taco+Cowboy · 2012-07-20 21:31 · Score: 1

FYI :

The holiday comes at the end of the fasting month of Ramadan

--
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
blocked url and domain by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 23:15 · Score: 0

you can check the blocked address from this url http://trustpositif.kominfo.go.id/?lang=en
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by fnj · 2012-07-20 23:48 · Score: 1

I can tell you there is a very tiny chance any significant number of readers will feel differently about it in a century, and zero readers will feel differently about it in two centuries.
That is simply because very, very few readers will still be alive in a century, and none of them will be so in two centuries.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by khallow · 2012-07-21 00:48 · Score: 1

That is simply because very, very few readers will still be alive in a century, and none of them will be so in two centuries.
Well this off-topic, but what do you base that speculation on? And what makes you think readers won't still be around in two centuries?
Business as usual, move along... by MadCat · 2012-07-21 01:09 · Score: 3, Informative

I live in Indonesia, just so we've got that out of the way (read that as: I know what I'm talking about). This is business as usual, these "blockades" are nothing more than some cheap DNS tricks, and depending on your ISP either changing your DNS servers to Google or OpenDNS or just running a little proxy will get you around it just fine.
The only reason this is news is that the presidential elections are going to be happening in 2014 and a lot of officials are already jockeying for position, considering the current president is most likely on his way out in a hurry. The minister in question (Tifatul Sembiring) is also a totally technically clueless guy, so he just dictates "block stuff" and Indonesia being Indonesia, ISP's may or may not actually get it right and block things.
So, just business as usual, move along...
P.S. It's not "Indonesia's holy month" by the way, it's an Islamic thing, it's being observed world wide.

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There is no sig...
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-21 01:12 · Score: 0

Media blackout on West Papua? Not true, I red news articles every now and then on the newspaper and website about Papua. We, people in Java, do know the injustice being done to our friends Papuan but this is just one of many problems we are currently facing. To use the term "blackout" is what outsiders would use to belittle Indonesians efforts to better the situation.
To make up the mistake over the years —after all we just 14 years out of Soeharto regime— they have allocate and spent trillions of IDR in an effort to develop West Papua, the amount of money that is not available to and the cause of envy of other provinces. The corruption that is rife, just like everywhere else in Indonesia, causing those money not used to make roads and new schools but to enrich the few elites there.
1 million porn sites by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-21 02:00 · Score: 0

Great job! Only 999,999,999,999,999 million left...
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by mister_playboy · 2012-07-21 02:43 · Score: 1, Insightful

This is a sort of "No True Scotsman" fallacy and a means of deflecting arguments that one cannot effectively counter. If the teacher cannot adequately explain the lesson to the student, then that is a failing of the teacher and not the student. The teacher needs to pick a form the student can make use of.
Further, it is an implicit admission that said religious book of choice cannot be useful to every human in any one form. That's an important concept, emphasizing the importance of content over form.
A universal theology has been, is, and will be, impossible.

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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-22 03:09 · Score: 0

Total nonsense. Even using the same language people can't agree what any of this stuff is supposed to mean.
To block these sites is good, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-22 22:01 · Score: 0

Of course, it is good to block these sites for teenagers, but all others can easily unblock the site by using additional services like Tor, btguard, Pirateray etc, so it may not work so efficiently by 100% in this case. More blocades are created, more unblocking will be created too.