In Advance of Ramadan, Indonesian Gov't Starts Massive Censorship Push

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In Advance of Ramadan, Indonesian Gov't Starts Massive Censorship Push

Posted by timothy on Friday July 20, 2012 @11:50AM from the night-time-is-for-snacking dept.

An anonymous reader writes "The Indonesian government has blocked access to 1 million pornographic websites in advance of Ramadan, the country's holy month. Internet censorship is nothing new in Indonesia, but the scale of this particular restriction is unprecedented. Apparently this is only the beginning. Minister Tifatul Sembiring said Wednesday his office would target more sites through the country's holy month, and beyond."

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Maybe I'm missing something by undefinedreference · 2012-07-20 11:52 · Score: 1

Isn't Ramadan a Muslim holiday? How is it "the country's holy month"?
1. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 11:55 · Score: 1
  
  Google?
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Indonesia
  
  Islam is the dominant religion in Indonesia, which also has a larger Muslim population than any other country in the world, with approximately 202.9 million identified as Muslim (88.2% of the total population) as of 2009.
2. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 11:55 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Because Islam is the state religion.
3. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by undefinedreference · 2012-07-20 11:56 · Score: 1
  
  Before you ask, yes, I call Lent a "holiday", too.
4. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by DoofusOfDeath · 2012-07-20 12:01 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  Before you ask, yes, I call Lent a "holiday", too.
  Do you call Lent a holiday too? Oh crap, you just said I shouldn't...
5. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by undefinedreference · 2012-07-20 12:06 · Score: 2
  
  I never said you shouldn't, I was simply answering the obvious before it was asked.
6. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Sir_Sri · 2012-07-20 12:24 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  It's the holy month of Ramadan where Muslims fast for a whole month and then have a big feast at the end of it.
  Because it's a month long 'holiday' doesn't really do it justice. Life still goes on, just at strange hours and in strange ways. I've had islamic scholars tell me that part of the point is to experience hunger, so when some Muslims switch to being nocturnal they're missing the point. But that happens a lot of places, the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law so to speak.
  Technically Indonesia is not an islamic state, they recognize a couple of religions (some of Islam, some of Christianity, Confucianism, Buddhism, and Hinduism), but as is practically the case, with just shy of 90% of the population being (or at least claiming to be) Muslim you can't really get around Islamic tradition.
7. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by similar_name · 2012-07-20 12:27 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  There are way more than 12 countries, so you know each country can't have their own holy month. Why do you think August being the countries holy month prevents other countries from having the same holy month.
  August isn't the holy month, Ramadan is. Why do you think one calendar would prevent there being other calendars?
8. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 12:32 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Actually it isn't in Indonesia. The country is founded on it's five principles "Pancasila"
  The belief in monotheism is part of the constitution,...
  HOWEVER, Islam is not the state religion, despite the overwhemling majority of citizens claiming to be Muslim.
  In fact Atheism is illegal in the country.
  It's not so surprising when the population mostly still believes in ghosts and spirits.
9. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by AdamJS · 2012-07-20 12:48 · Score: 1
  
  Like Christmas in the US. A month is a bit excessive though.
10. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by pwizard2 · 2012-07-20 12:51 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  In fact Atheism is illegal in the country.
  I wonder how they enforce that. All someone would have to do is not openly admit to being an atheist.
  
  The sooner the world gets rid of religion, the better off we will be. Religion holds us back... for the first time ever in history, the combined knowledge of humanity is available in one place for those who care to look for it and yet these theocracies throw it away in favor of blind faith in primitive mythology. Sure, they're just blocking porn right now, but what stops them from blocking anything that undermines their power? It's absolutely sad that some 7th century Arab tribesman's scam to get money, power, and women has persisted all the way to the 21st century. Christianity is not much better, however I give it credit for not being in the "killing people" phase anymore.
  
  --
  "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
11. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by PPH · 2012-07-20 13:00 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  In fact Atheism is illegal in the country.
  Blessed be FSM. RAmen.
  
  --
  Have gnu, will travel.
12. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 13:08 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  They actually feast at the end of everyday, not just the end of the month. It is very often a community feast (called Iftar), where friends & neighbors (even the ones that are well off) are invited. I agree with you on the rest, though.
13. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 13:10 · Score: 1
  
  * that are not well off
14. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by sinan · 2012-07-20 13:20 · Score: 1
  
  --Like Christmas in the US. A month is a bit excessive though.
  Yeah, but it's not like it's every year.It's only every 354 days.
15. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by lordshipmayhem · 2012-07-20 13:24 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  This is how - jailing atheists and closing Christian churches.
16. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by k(wi)r(kipedia) · 2012-07-20 13:44 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't Ramadan a Muslim holiday? How is it "the country's holy month"?
  Ramadan isn't the holiday, since it lasts more or less a month. Now even if you're not familiar with Islamic religious feasts, just imagine the consequences of an entire nation taking their vacation at the same time. The holiday (and holy day) is called Eid ul-Fitr, which marks the end of the Ramadan.
  Eid ul-Fitr has been compared to Christmas. I think it's closer to Easter Sunday, since both holy days mark the end of some sort abstinence, Lent in the case of Easter. Nowadays fasting is a word not general associated with the Christmas season.
17. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by an+unsound+mind · 2012-07-20 13:45 · Score: 1
  
  Blessed be FSF.
18. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by causality · 2012-07-20 13:54 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  In fact Atheism is illegal in the country.
  I wonder how they enforce that. All someone would have to do is not openly admit to being an atheist. The sooner the world gets rid of religion, the better off we will be. Religion holds us back... for the first time ever in history, the combined knowledge of humanity is available in one place for those who care to look for it and yet these theocracies throw it away in favor of blind faith in primitive mythology. Sure, they're just blocking porn right now, but what stops them from blocking anything that undermines their power? It's absolutely sad that some 7th century Arab tribesman's scam to get money, power, and women has persisted all the way to the 21st century. Christianity is not much better, however I give it credit for not being in the "killing people" phase anymore.
  Religion isn't the problem. Using the force of law (i.e. men with guns) to enforce your brand of morality on others is the problem.
  
  Religion is only one excuse for doing this. "For your safety" or "for the children" are others. The process is the same. The excuse is just that -- an excuse. It's all about power, control, and trying to force everyone to be like yourself because you are too insecure to be an individual. These are people who derive security from being among the like-minded. Consequently they feel threatened by someone who does not agree.
  
  These are petty, egotistical little tyrants. The thing to understand about ego is that in its own eyes, it is never wrong and never at fault. Therefore, if my insecurity causes me to feel threatened, I absolutely cannot attribute that to insecurity or any other fault within myself (even though that would lead to personal growth*). I must blame it on the person who makes me feel insecure by believing something I don't. It's a scapegoat. If I happen to have political power, then I can put the force of law behind this. If not, I can cry about how "offended" I am and try to shame the other person into submission.
  
  Most people are like this, unfortunately. This is part of why the world is the way that it is. That's why when most people find a radio program or TV show offensive, simply not listening or watching isn't good enough for them. They have to try to take it off the air. That's why people who don't drink alcohol want to support "no alcohol sales on Sunday" and other stupid, easily circumvented laws (stock up Saturday). It's why people who don't do drugs support throwing people in jail and ruining their lives over possession of a plant, even though they weren't driving intoxicated or otherwise endangering anyone.
  
  They're cowards who don't have the strength to be individuals. That's why they cannot allow others to be individuals and make their own personal choices. Deep down they know they're cowards, so they try to appear big and fearsome. State power certainly satisfies that requirement, so they ally themselves to it. They're compensating** for personal shortcomings instead of facing them. The hardest part to understand is that these are subconscious processes -- the people themselves believes they're sincere and would probably pass any polygraph test. It's basic denial that becomes "fact" when it goes on long enough. The only exception to that would be most of the politicians, who view these cowards as little more than useful idiots who can be exploited to advance state power.
  
  * Avoiding the introspection and never developing the courage to face one's own faults and work to remedy them makes these things self-perpetuating and self-reinforcing.
  
  ** Compensation is not a deliberate, planned process. It's more like a form of energy. Being energy, it is neither created nor destroyed; it changes form. Their cowardice changes into the form of support for bad laws that deserve none. The fear and ignorance that makes "for the children" laws possible is also like this.
  
  --
  It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
19. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by artor3 · 2012-07-20 14:00 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Religions are just a source of philosophy for people without the time or inclination to ponder all of life's questions themselves. If you have the time to read over the works of philosophers and come up with a consistent viewpoint, more power to you. Most people don't, and those people can therefore either live without any self-consistent views on morality, or they can adopt a ready-made set in the form of a religion.
  Consistent morality is important. Without it, people will just come up with a rationalization for whatever benefits them at this moment, with no regard for the long term implications. That path gets you state-endorsed torture, it gets you anti-death penalty people supporting drone strikes and assassinations, it gets you anti-homosexual pundits demonizing people when the very same Biblical verse against homosexuality also lists publicly denouncing someone as equally sinful, and so on.
  But hey, religious people are behind all of those examples! Yeah, that was on purpose. Did you notice how as soon as a "Christian" leader decided torture was okay, all his supporters went along with it? It's because they aren't truly religious, they just like belonging to a special club. They don't actually care about the morality aspect. I don't want to specifically pick on Christians either. The Muslim suicide bombers and their leaders are in the same camp. They don't actually care about the faith, they just care about their special club -- the leaders like the power, the followers like the sense of purpose. Take away the religion, and they'll just come up with something else to rally behind... maybe race, maybe economic policy, maybe whether they eat their bread butter side up or down. Atheism doesn't solve anything. What we need is people to care more about finding a consistent moral basis.
  Now, of course, organized religion is a problem, particularly when accepted without question. Any time that you accept a ready-made philosophy from a powerful organization, you have to assume that the organization has designed that philosophy to protect its interests. For example, contrast the core tenets of Judeo-Christian religions (don't kill, don't steal, etc.) with some of the lesser points (e.g. tithing). It's pretty clear that certain ideas are important, while others are just there so that some old men in Rome can live comfortably.
  In short, what people should do, for the good of all humanity, is learn the good lessons, throw away the bad ones, and stop treating it as a team sport. This goes for atheists too. There have been great philosophers who didn't believe in a God, but people like Dawkins just make things worse by making everything so damn confrontational. Instead of providing readers with a consistent moral viewpoint, he just strokes their egos and gets rich doing it. No different from the priest who tells his flock their God's chosen people right before passing the hat.
20. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Strangelover · 2012-07-20 14:11 · Score: 1
  
  There is no such thing as *getting rid of religion*. People who want to believe *religiously* in things, with or without proof will do so no matter what. Whether it's UFO's, environmental disaster de jour, or buzzword de jour....
21. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by bky1701 · 2012-07-20 14:11 · Score: 2
  
  Indonesia is essentially a Muslim theocracy. It is illegal to be atheist; people are in jail for it right now. Other religions aren't exactly safe, either.
  
  --
  Great Intellect...
22. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by myowntrueself · 2012-07-20 14:25 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  It's the holy month of Ramadan where Muslims fast for a whole month and then have a big feast at the end of it.
  Because it's a month long 'holiday' doesn't really do it justice. Life still goes on, just at strange hours and in strange ways. I've had islamic scholars tell me that part of the point is to experience hunger, so when some Muslims switch to being nocturnal they're missing the point. But that happens a lot of places, the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law so to speak.
  Technically Indonesia is not an islamic state, they recognize a couple of religions (some of Islam, some of Christianity, Confucianism, Buddhism, and Hinduism), but as is practically the case, with just shy of 90% of the population being (or at least claiming to be) Muslim you can't really get around Islamic tradition.
  Its far from a holiday and more a festival of self abuse. I worked under an executive who was a Muslim. During Ramadan he fasted himself almost into a coma every day. By 5 pm he was unable to think straight and could barely stand. He fucked up a number of critical contracts due to this. He made it very very hard on everyone else in the company.
  Guess what he had for breakfast? A couple of fried eggs. It was completely retarded.
  
  --
  In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
23. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by khallow · 2012-07-20 14:35 · Score: 1
  
  but people like Dawkins just make things worse by making everything so damn confrontational.
  Socrates was a master at this sort of confrontation. And that's part of the reason he's heralded as the greatest of philosophers. How do you know a morality or philosophy is consistent? Because you test it. And one such way, a very effective one I might add, is via confrontation.
24. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 14:47 · Score: 1
  
  This is true, if an exaggeration, people like to feel right and making others act out their morality even through force makes them feel safe and/or important, but religion is worse than this.
  People instinctively want others to do what *they* think is good for them it is a consequence of our empathy that seeing someone else do something we regard as unpleasant dangerous or hurtful, even only to themselves, makes us feel bad, and we want to stop it. Religion plays not just on our desire to feel right but also on our desirer to protect others from harm. Salvation through faith coupled with the thereat of hell, an eternity of meaningless suffering, will drive people to do *anything* to other people for their own good including kill them to prevent them from straying. Because hell is an eternal punishment you can even balance genocide against the "salvation" of a single individual and come out thinking of it as a positive. This is what has driven the growth of Christianity and Islam and also what makes so many religions so negative.
25. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 14:54 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  You can't approximate Ramadan by calling it August. it's based on a lunar calendar that is 12 to 14 days shorter each year than the Gregorian calendar. This means it moves relative to the Gregorian calendar each year such that Ramadan can/has/will occur alongside every month in the Gregorian calendar. You can call it a month because it is (maybe even more accurately so considering month comes from moon) but it shouldn't be called August since you might as well call it January or mid-March to mid-April.
26. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by artor3 · 2012-07-20 14:58 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  You're (intentionally) equivocating. The Socratic method is to ask pointed questions as a means of testing a philosophy. Polemics, such as those written by Dawkins, make facile, feel-good arguments to make their readers happy. Both are confrontational, but one is constructive, while the other is all about running the other guy down.
27. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 15:01 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  I doubt that was to spread Atheism or was a war against Theists. Nice try though.
28. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 15:06 · Score: 1
  
  More he was retarded and enjoyed the self-abuse. Most practicing muslims do fine, I have worked closely with many of them.
29. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by bryan1945 · 2012-07-20 15:11 · Score: 1
  
  I have been touched by his noodley appendage.
  
  --
  Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
30. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Jah-Wren+Ryel · 2012-07-20 15:12 · Score: 1
  
  One might even say that religious institutions provide an outlet for such impulses that is at least somewhat disciplined and much less likely to cause the person damage than simply letting them wander into the flock of someone like jim jones.
  
  --
  When information is power, privacy is freedom.
31. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by khallow · 2012-07-20 16:20 · Score: 2
  
  You're (intentionally) equivocating. The Socratic method is to ask pointed questions as a means of testing a philosophy. Polemics, such as those written by Dawkins, make facile, feel-good arguments to make their readers happy. Both are confrontational, but one is constructive, while the other is all about running the other guy down.
  Given the only difference between the two styles is mostly a matter of subjective opinion, why shouldn't I intentionally equivocate here? Socrates apparently ran a lot of people down during his career ass professional gadfly. And frankly, getting your belief system run down seems a good way to test its weaknesses.
32. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 17:18 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  It must be hard for Muslims that live north of the Arctic circle, since they Fast from sunrise to sunset.
33. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Sir_Sri · 2012-07-20 19:30 · Score: 1
  
  That's actually the point from what I understand. You're supposed to suffer and know what it's like to be poor and to be able to rejoice every night when you feast. It is supposed to teach you humility, so you know what it's like for the poor wage slave who has to do that all year round because he/she can't afford food every day.
  This runs into the first problem, which is that Islam was developed with a particular latitude in mind, and the rules don't work as well far north or south of it, and secondly, lots of muslims who really have to do business during ramadan just become noctural and sleep all day.
34. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 20:46 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I do definitely not "believe" that there is no god in the same sense as you might believe that there is one. And I think every atheist/agnostic will say the same.
  Your believe is based on stories and myths. I don't have that. Thats it. I am not believing in anything on the grounds of myths and stories.
35. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by heypete · 2012-07-20 21:19 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not a Muslim but I had read that in many cases allowances can be made: people observe the fast between sunrise and sunset in Mecca.
  A similar exception was made when the first Muslim astronaut was in space. Wired has an interesting writeup on the subject.
36. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by chrismcb · 2012-07-20 22:19 · Score: 1
  
  Thankfully the world will never get rid of religion. But you already know the problem you are referring to has nothing to do with religion. If it wasn't religion it would be something else.
37. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by etash · 2012-07-20 22:22 · Score: 2
  
  Religions are just a source of philosophy for people without the time or inclination to ponder all of life's questions themselves. If you have the time to read over the works of philosophers and come up with a consistent viewpoint, more power to you. Most people don't, and those people can therefore either live without any self-consistent views on morality, or they can adopt a ready-made set in the form of a religion.
  Consistent morality is important. Without it, people will just come up with a rationalization for whatever benefits them at this moment, with no regard for the long term implications. That path gets you state-endorsed torture, it gets you anti-death penalty people supporting drone strikes and assassinations, it gets you anti-homosexual pundits demonizing people when the very same Biblical verse against homosexuality also lists publicly denouncing someone as equally sinful, and so on.
  But hey, religious people are behind all of those examples! Yeah, that was on purpose. Did you notice how as soon as a "Christian" leader decided torture was okay, all his supporters went along with it? It's because they aren't truly religious, they just like belonging to a special club. They don't actually care about the morality aspect. I don't want to specifically pick on Christians either. The Muslim suicide bombers and their leaders are in the same camp. They don't actually care about the faith, they just care about their special club -- the leaders like the power, the followers like the sense of purpose. Take away the religion, and they'll just come up with something else to rally behind... maybe race, maybe economic policy, maybe whether they eat their bread butter side up or down. Atheism doesn't solve anything. What we need is people to care more about finding a consistent moral basis.
  Now, of course, organized religion is a problem, particularly when accepted without question. Any time that you accept a ready-made philosophy from a powerful organization, you have to assume that the organization has designed that philosophy to protect its interests. For example, contrast the core tenets of Judeo-Christian religions (don't kill, don't steal, etc.) with some of the lesser points (e.g. tithing). It's pretty clear that certain ideas are important, while others are just there so that some old men in Rome can live comfortably.
  In short, what people should do, for the good of all humanity, is learn the good lessons, throw away the bad ones, and stop treating it as a team sport. This goes for atheists too. There have been great philosophers who didn't believe in a God, but people like Dawkins just make things worse by making everything so damn confrontational. Instead of providing readers with a consistent moral viewpoint, he just strokes their egos and gets rich doing it. No different from the priest who tells his flock their God's chosen people right before passing the hat.
  The whole post is an apology for religion. Of course if we go deep down it's the human nature that it's bad, but religion enhances that aspect of it. About dawkins and him being confrontational, there is no progress with being carebears. Maybe we should heal the horde to their death ? Or - and i want to bring godwin here - should we have become friends with the nazis ? The only way to fix cancer is to remove it, that is, being confrontational with it.
38. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by TheLink · 2012-07-20 22:23 · Score: 1
  
  Think of it as evolution on a different scale. Many of the weaker ones died out years ago.
  
  From what I see the less costly religions would have had an advantage over atheism, at least in the past when medical technology wasn't that good. The placebo effect is real, so if you need to ignore pain for the good of the tribe, and there's no one else around except God/etc, it's a lot easier for nonatheists to self-administer the placebo...
  
  Belief in some hockey/football/sport team is unlikely to work as well for stuff like that, but it might cause you to bash up believers in other teams.
  
  From history it seems easy to get groups of people to kill others, God and religion need not be involved at all - many of the top genocides in the last century were not caused by religion.
  --
  
  Too many replies beneath your current threshold
39. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by khallow · 2012-07-20 23:51 · Score: 1
  
  So what is the problem? The confrontational style or Dawkins not stepping up his game? Sounds to me like it's the latter.
  
  As for me, I haven't read much of Dawkins and don't see the point to reading any of that particular debate over religion.
40. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2012-07-21 01:27 · Score: 1
  
  According to my Muslim friends here in Stockholm (where daylight currently runs from ~0430 to ~2130), fasting for 12 hours a day is considered sufficient to meet their Ramadan obligation.
  
  --
  Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
41. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by Celarent+Darii · 2012-07-21 01:50 · Score: 1
  
  Lent is 40 days before Easter, Advent 4 weeks before Christmas, both traditionally days of fast and abstinence. The Second Vatican Council pretty much eliminated them however.
42. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by ryzvonusef · 2012-07-21 03:40 · Score: 1
  
  Guess what he had for breakfast? A couple of fried eggs. It was completely retarded.
  Then it's his fault for not having a proper breakfast, isn't it? Him fasting has nothing to do with it.
  
  --
  I am an ACCA student. Got a query on Accountancy/Finance? Maybe I can help!
43. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-07-21 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  .I wonder how they enforce that. All someone would have to do is not openly admit to being an atheist.
  
  Well, if that part comes from Sharia, then being an atheist is not a crime - declaring one an atheist is.
  The worldly Islamic Law, in general, is concerned with behavior of people, not their thoughts, on the grounds that certain kinds of behavior provide bad example for the others who would then go on and commit sins. So, presumably, if you're an atheist, or, say, a Muslim apostate, then God will punish you with fiery hell in the afterlife, and that takes care of that. But if you go around telling people there's no God, some will believe you and follow you, and now you are a real threat to the Ummah - and so they take you away and punish you for that (and then you still get God's punishment in hell for the other part).
  This, by the way, is why fundie Islamic rules of conquest are not "convert or die", but rather "submit or die". "Submit" here means you have to follow their laws, not necessarily believe in their faith backing those laws.
44. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by interkin3tic · 2012-07-21 16:18 · Score: 1
  
  Well, no, I'm an agnostic. I'm not convinced of either side. Anyone who says they know one way or the other must know something I don't.
45. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by The+Wild+Norseman · 2012-07-21 17:48 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder if you could just point out that atheism by some standards is just as much a religion as theism.
  Oh, this old canard again? Yawn.
  
  You believe there are no gods,
  
  Firstly, a lack of evidence isn't a belief no matter how hard the theists try and spin it. Secondly, the null hypothesis states that gods do not exist unless evidence is shown for them.
  
  you can prove it only as much as one can prove there ARE gods.
  Thirdly, on those rare occasions where a theist puts forth a coherent, rational god concept, it's found to be easily disproven, thus your statements are incorrect.
  
  --
  "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
46. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by interkin3tic · 2012-07-21 19:55 · Score: 1
  
  I was unclear. I was saying that as an agnostic, I don't see how either side are so sure of themselves. There's no clear evidence that I can see either way. So, to me, atheists and theists both are making unproven assertions of faith.
47. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by The+Wild+Norseman · 2012-07-22 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  I was unclear. I was saying that as an agnostic, I don't see how either side are so sure of themselves. There's no clear evidence that I can see either way. So, to me, atheists and theists both are making unproven assertions of faith.
  Oh, alright, I appreciate your clarification.
  My main point is that, depending on what god is described, it certainly can be (and has been) disproven. In these instances, it is not a mere assertion that this particular god doesn't exist. Also, due to the null hypothesis, it's reasonable, rational, and logical (i.e., normal) to have a stance toward any god-concept to be that it/they do not exist without providing some sort of positive evidence of that existence. Again, no faith required for the null hypothesis; in other words, no faith is required to firmly state that gods do not exist without having some evidence to support this existence.
  There is also ample evidence that gods have been and are invented by humans and do not have any kind of existence outside of imagination. So there is that then as well.
  Any way you slice it, there is simply no equivalence between theists and atheists, even if some atheists have arrived at their particular conclusions in an illogical or purely irrational manner. The irrationality of some atheists and their particular manner of concluding the non-existence of gods does in no way support the theist perspective of the existence of gods.
  
  --
  "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
48. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by camperslo · 2012-07-22 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  It would likely be more fitting for pride month festivities than for a religious event, but it would be different to have a holiday with colorful auroras to watch. In that spirit, maybe an event should last a Carrington rotation instead of a month?
  Techno / disco beach resort at the north pole after the ice melts?
  http://www2.gi.alaska.edu/images/plot_ace.png
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/anakin1814/7578749634/in/photostream/
49. Re:Maybe I'm missing something by cthulhu11 · 2012-07-22 20:07 · Score: 1
  
  >Now, of course, organized religion is a problem, particularly when accepted without question. Any time that you accept a ready-made philosophy from a powerful organization, you have to assume that the organization has designed that philosophy to protect its interests.
  
  Sophistry. My ex's coven had a name, a hierarchy, structured meetings that were frequent and scheduled. There were like seven of them, hardly "powerful". Max Kolbe's religion led him to save someone else's life at the cost of his own. Please explain how this is "a problem".
North Sumatra by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 11:54 · Score: 1

Simbiring is a name from North Sumatra. Perhaps he doesn't like the internet at all?
Please draw...... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 12:00 · Score: 2, Funny

your best ascii art mohamed below.
1. Re:Please draw...... by philip.paradis · 2012-07-20 15:36 · Score: 1
  
  mohamed
  There, that's in ASCII, and I call it art. Don't judge me, it's art. IT'S ART.
  
  --
  Write failed: Broken pipe
2. Re:Please draw...... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 19:30 · Score: 1
  
  Mo on little Aisha
  
  O=}==)====
  >>o}=v==
3. Re:Please draw...... by doesnothingwell · 2012-07-21 05:54 · Score: 2
  
  (:O:) Oh, you meant his face.
  
  --
  They can have my command prompt when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
Why bother? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2012-07-20 12:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

Given the libido-suppressive effects of caloric restriction, wouldn't it make more sense to step up their precious little moral crusade(jihad?) during all non-ramadan periods and slack off during that month?
1. Re:Why bother? by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 12:30 · Score: 1
  
  You misunderstood. You actually feast on spicy specially-made food in the evening, making you more satisfied about everything, and making you more horny.
2. Re:Why bother? by million_monkeys · 2012-07-20 14:07 · Score: 1
  
  This is very confusing. I wish someone would just make a plot of horniness versus day of the year so we could see whether there was a spike around Ramadan. This is slashdot, surely there's enough horny geeks to be able to pull this off. And now that i've mentioned it, i wonder if there's some way to objectively measure horniness?
3. Re:Why bother? by bky1701 · 2012-07-20 14:13 · Score: 1
  
  Fasting is not really fasting. You fast in the day, have a buffet nightly at sundown. It's one of those weird things religions do while saying they do something else.
  
  --
  Great Intellect...
4. Re:Why bother? by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 14:39 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Er, they do fast. They fast for 12 hours a day, without water or food. If you try it for one day, you will understand how difficult it is (and you would also understand what being hungry means, which basically is the purpose). You start running low on blood sugar in about 6 hours, you feeling really thirsty in about 5-6 hours. And all of this, while you perform your regular duties, which is really tough when you are low on blood sugar and thirsty.
5. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 16:48 · Score: 1
  
  But if you push past that and just keep your mouth wet, your hunger and thirst mostly goes away. You'll have less energy and get tried more easily but you won't feel too bad. You'll start to get a little light headed after the first day and a half. Once your mouth starts almost instantly going dry you'll be passing out if you don't take it very easy.
  I'm speaking from experience. I had a stupid suicide attempt where I was too depressed and didn't drink anything for 2.5 days and didn't eat anything for a little over 3 days (took around 1/2 a day to get enough strength back to eat. If you mess up some blood levels while recovering you die). After the initial hunger went away, I actually felt better than I had in a long time (one reason it failed). I didn't feel like passing out until around 2.3 days and passed out once (almost three times) around 2.4. My bookbag felt so heavy to carry and just as bad when dragging it along the ground (I was at college).
  It was an interesting experience and made me stronger. I no longer worry about missing a meal or two or if I'll have enough to drink when I get stuck someplace for .5-1 days due to poor travel conditions. I know my limits.
6. Re:Why bother? by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 18:10 · Score: 1
  
  Try coding when your brain is telling you that is too tired, and let me know how it works.
7. Re:Why bother? by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 18:14 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I bet you drank water (most likely with some electrolytes or juice). And point is not that it is really tough, but it is remind you of what hunger feels like for 30 days, every year. Also, when your break your fast together as a community, you bond with other members of the community (you also realize, irrespective of how rich or how poor you are, you are all very very similar, and share experiences. Its a beautiful thing in my opinion). Also you must know difficult it is to concentrate or code or play chess, when your brain is telling you that it is tired and asking you to go to sleep.
8. Re:Why bother? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 19:26 · Score: 1
  
  > And all of this, while you perform your regular duties
  That's plain wrong. In Ramadan, you sleep during the day (even if you have work to do), and have fun in the evening. No one really works during that month, the crime rate skyrockets (put a mob of hungry, thirsty and sleep-deprived shoppers in a small mall and see what happens).
  Source: Me, I live in a country where the majority observe Ramadan, and it sucks. I call it "the lost month." Just yesterday I've seen a woman yelling at her husband, shouting that he enjoys sucking dick and have a monster of anus and then receiving the beating of her life.That's Ramadan.
9. Re:Why bother? by The+Wild+Norseman · 2012-07-21 17:41 · Score: 1
  
  This is slashdot, surely there's enough horny geeks to be able to pull this off.
  This is slashdot -- most geeks are surely pulling it off, probably nearly every night.
  
  --
  "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
Just so we're clear, by MyFirstNameIsPaul · 2012-07-20 12:07 · Score: 1

Did they block the Internet, or was it the World Wide Web?

--
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real soon. by dgatwood · 2012-07-20 12:09 · Score: 1

You can take away their rights, and you can take away their money, but take away their porn, and the people will revolt. :-D

--
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
This really does sound like Lent... by undefinedreference · 2012-07-20 12:15 · Score: 1

With filtering in place, the fact they allowed access to pornographic websites before Ramadan is what confuses me. Was this like the Indonesian Internet version of Mardi Gras?
You no the rules: by Black+Parrot · 2012-07-20 12:15 · Score: 1

No porn on holy days.

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by erroneus · 2012-07-20 12:18 · Score: 1

You got that right.
If a religion is to be followed faithfully, how does it help to "force" someone to follow it? Religion and faith HAVE to be a choice or else it is neither. These religious zealots aren't particularly religious are they?
One million? by TimHunter · 2012-07-20 12:21 · Score: 4, Informative

Okay, possibly I'm stupid or out of touch, but I've been around the interwebs for a while and seen my share of stuff. It just doesn't seem likely that there are a million porn sites. I wouldn't have guessed 1 million in the world, and certainly not 1 million that the Indonesian government can block.
Here's an article in Forbes article that says

In 2010, out of the million most popular (most trafficked) websites in the world, 42,337 were sex-related sites.

That's a far cry from 1 million. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/julieruvolo/2011/09/07/how-much-of-the-internet-is-actually-for-porn/)
Maybe they mean 1 million pages. Or maybe there are a million sites that only host a single drawing of Mickey banging Minnie doggie-style. Or maybe they mean something different by the word "pornographic." But 1 million pornhubs? 1 million redtubes? I'm having a hard time believing this.
1. Re:One million? by alphatel · 2012-07-20 12:42 · Score: 1
  
  It just doesn't seem likely that there are a million porn sites. I wouldn't have guessed 1 million in the world, and certainly not 1 million that the Indonesian government can block.
  Reddit cableporn
  chair porn
  furrysex
  
  That's a few billion right there. "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again." Also porn. George Bush saying "awesome", porn. You get the picture. If not pray to Mohammed for forgiveness or whatever he is offering this holiday season.
  
  --
  When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
2. Re:One million? by bky1701 · 2012-07-20 14:22 · Score: 2
  
  The fact you only think of the major ones does not mean there are minor. There are several huge sites which eclipse the others, but a million porn sites is an incredibly low-ball number considering the number of sites on the internet. I am not sure how to go about getting statistics on this, unfortunately.
  
  --
  Great Intellect...
3. Re:One million? by gman003 · 2012-07-20 15:56 · Score: 2
  
  Wait wait wait.
  Your argument is that there are less than 1 million porn sites, and you cite an article that examines ONLY one million sites. Do I even need to point out the flaw in that reasoning?
  Still, let's suppose that your 42,000/1,000,000 figure is true. There are somewhere between 300,000,000 and 6,800,000,000 websites, total, which (using naive extrapolation) gives between 13,000,000 and 290,000,000 pornographic websites. And I for one would bet that porn tends more to the "many sites with low traffic" style than average.
  In any case, this source lists 4.2 million sites, and this study lists 260 million porn pages online as of 2003 - do your own estimates for average pages per site and extrapolate towards today if you wish.
  Part of the proliferation is just how the business works. They tend to buy up many domains, one for each "series" almost, and combine them into one "package". They commonly refer to this as "affiliate" sites. So that inflates things a bit. Then there's the rather large number of free sites that just rehost content. Then all the camwhore sites. And some "dating" sites are classed as pornography for obvious reasons.
  tl;dr there's a TON of porn out there
4. Re:One million? by theygoto11 · 2012-07-20 16:06 · Score: 1
  
  How about they let us see the list so we can judge for ourselves.
Re:What is the problem? by Austerity+Empowers · 2012-07-20 12:25 · Score: 4, Insightful

That is a worthy notion, as we are just as bad about letting our dominant religion limit our freedom. Here in the US, our own dominant religious element has decided for us:
- Prostitution will be illegal (mostly), in spite of the high demand
- Alcohol is restricted, in some places illegal to sell at all times, in others illegal to sell at certain times (frequently Sunday mornings)
- Same sex partners cannot have a legally binding marriage, with full benefits
- You may be married to one, and only one person (who must be of the opposite sex) at any given time (granted, I don't think our legal system could handle the larger case, presently)
- In some settings you may be limited about what you can say on certain topics (sex, evolution, religion, etc.)
- "G.D." is a forbidden expression on television
It's true some of these things may HAVE BEEN democratic at one point or another, but are enshrined now. You can't, say, change alcohol laws without a small but vocal minority trying to get you unseated from government. It was democracy for our grandparents, but it's dictatorial for us.
the ringside view by harvey+the+nerd · 2012-07-20 12:27 · Score: 1

It will be interesting to see where the wrath of god strikes after this.
1. Re:the ringside view by alphatel · 2012-07-20 13:16 · Score: 1
  
  It will be interesting to see where the wrath of god strikes after this.
  God and His wrath are never on strike. The might have a slowdown if wages are not raised though.
  
  --
  When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by grcumb · 2012-07-20 12:31 · Score: 4, Informative

You can take away their rights, and you can take away their money, but take away their porn, and the people will revolt. :-D
*sigh*
I think it would be fairer to say that you can take away their money, their rights and their lives, but that story won't get posted on Slashdot until it involves porn.
The Indonesian government and military have tried to maintain a complete media blackout on the ongoing human rights abuses -including torture and murder- in the occupied territory of West Papua, which was annexed while the world looked away. This oppression has been going on for a generation, but nobody chooses to care, because of Indonesia's status as the largest pro-US muslim country in the world.
But yeah, boobs. Let's support those horny Indonesians by slashdotting bringbacktheporn.com. That'll get the add revenue going.

--
Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
To paraphrase Princess Leia by TWX · 2012-07-20 12:37 · Score: 1

The more you tighten your grip, Indonesia, the more pornography will slip through your fingers...

--
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Minor detail by girlintraining · 2012-07-20 12:38 · Score: 1

Not that very many here care, but it started yesterday.

--
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by H0p313ss · 2012-07-20 12:41 · Score: 2

You can take away their rights, and you can take away their money, but take away their porn, and the people will revolt. :-D
I guess you don't know much about Indonesian history then, they overthrew their dictator 14 years ago. That said, even in the 80's Indonesia was one of the most liberal of muslim countries, and since 1998 have become one of the most democratic as well.
From a western perspective they still have a long way to go, but they are a million miles ahead of the "Arab Spring" countries.
It's a beautiful country full of beautiful, kind, gentle people. Please learn more before you shoot your mouth off.

--
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by dgatwood · 2012-07-20 12:45 · Score: 1

You do realize that my post was entirely in jest, right?

--
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by Mashiki · 2012-07-20 13:13 · Score: 1

You mean like the arab spring in egypt? Yeah, looks like that one is only going to put womens rights back a few hundred years. Cheer it on man, cheer it on.

--
Om, nomnomnom...
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by ThatsMyNick · 2012-07-20 13:18 · Score: 1

There is a lot of discontent in the populace though. The country has large muslim majority, which fairly poor, and a Chinese & Indian minority that is largely wealthy. Now and they you will see this discontent in politics (politicians appease the wealthy for their money, and during elections somehow try to appease the majority). I wouldnt be surprised to see riots break out if this continues (and censorship, might just be the tipping point). I agree GP's comparison to Libya was wrong, but portraying a a rosy picture doesnt do any good either.
Repeat after me... by cvtan · 2012-07-20 13:20 · Score: 1

Religious governments are a bad idea. Religious governments are a bad idea. Religious governments are a bad idea.

--
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
1. Re:Repeat after me... by dbIII · 2012-07-20 13:48 · Score: 2
  
  They are less of a religious government than what you have in the USA but they still do things like this to keep some religious voters happy.
2. Re:Repeat after me... by bky1701 · 2012-07-20 14:24 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, it's ashame most countries have them.
  
  --
  Great Intellect...
3. Re:Repeat after me... by dbIII · 2012-07-21 01:07 · Score: 1
  
  Please provide a reported example instead of expecting me to trust an AC on faith.
Food Temptation? by Azure+Flash · 2012-07-20 13:26 · Score: 2

Maybe they should block sites where they sell, show or discuss food, too, in order to avoid tempting them.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by dbIII · 2012-07-20 13:45 · Score: 2

Yes, but there are regional revolts still under way in parts of Indonesia and an earlier major one didn't really stop until the Tsunami.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by Panoptes · 2012-07-20 14:07 · Score: 4, Interesting

ThatsMyNick makes valid points; let me take them further. Here in Indonesia, come Ramadan there's always a mad rush for clerics and politicos to do an "I'm holier than thou" act. Draconian pledges and swingeing action plans that turn out to be mere wishful thinking thunder from the media and every soapbox in the country - but they're all chimeras, sops to the gangs of religious fanatics that plague Indonesia. In reality this is one of the most tolerant Muslim communities in the world, but the proverbial few bad apples spoil the barrel.

Indonesia is in the Internet stone age. The country is rated near the very bottom of Internet provision - way below many third-world and developing countries. Those of us who 'enjoy' broadband pay through the nose for a seriously flawed and inadequate service, and we're laughing out loud at the very notion that the muppets who run our IT services can filter anything other than their monthly pay cheques.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by bky1701 · 2012-07-20 14:19 · Score: 1

The Arab Spring ended up installing Islamist governments. I think you need to pay more attention to world events. This is certainly what the people of Indonesia want; that is the problem.

--
Great Intellect...
Re:What is the problem? by khallow · 2012-07-20 14:28 · Score: 1

Pot causes lung cancer more effectively than cigarettes.

That's an interesting theory. Have any evidence for the assertion, especially keeping in mind that the two drugs are used differently.

That alone means it ought to stay banned.

Nonsense. Even if the allegation is true, so what? I have no trouble at all with people doing harmful things to themselves or even killing themselves. It's their right.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by khallow · 2012-07-20 14:46 · Score: 1

Eh, a similar "spring" happened in Europe in 1848. It didn't lead to a lot of positive near future change, only a few countries went more democratic (though the UK was a notable example), but I think it was a step towards the present mostly democratic and peaceful Europe that exists today. So sure, it doesn't look all that great in the short term, but we may feel differently about it a century or two from now.
Re:What is the problem? by Cwix · 2012-07-20 14:50 · Score: 3, Informative

http://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/news/20060523/pot-smoking-not-linked-to-lung-cancer
You're wrong.

May 23, 2006 -- People who smoke marijuana do not appear to be at increased risk for developing lung cancer, new research suggests.
While a clear increase in cancer risk was seen among cigarette smokers in the study, no such association was seen for regular cannabis users.
Even very heavy, long-term marijuana users who had smoked more than 22,000 joints over a lifetime seemed to have no greater risk than infrequent marijuana users or nonusers.
The findings surprised the study’s researchers, who expected to see an increase in cancer among people who smoked marijuana regularly in their youth.
See what happens when you don't look up the stuff you hear? You look silly.

--
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by myowntrueself · 2012-07-20 14:51 · Score: 2

Of course a Muslim might argue that you cannot understand the Koran unless you read it in the original Arabic. Apparently the Arabic language is untranslatable into any other language and therefore cannot be learned by anyone who doesn't grow up with it as their mother tongue. So I guess noone who doesn't grow up with Arabic language can ever understand the Koran.
I've actually had quite well educated and otherwise intelligent Muslims lay down the 'you cannot understand the Koran except in Arabic' line on me. Its a logical fallacy.

--
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by Mashiki · 2012-07-20 14:53 · Score: 1

Yeah something similar also happened in Russia and China too. Last time I looked the body count was ~250 million dead in their own purges removing "undesirables" and I'm sure that worked out well for them as well. Here's the thing a lot of people forget, Islam isn't just a religion. It's a military, and political doctrine as well. Not to mention a few other things.
And in countries where ruling parties have it as the forefront in, and of, the law of the land. People suffer, and those that suffer the most are minorities, women, and anyone who isn't a muslim.

--
Om, nomnomnom...
Re:What is the problem? by Raenex · 2012-07-20 15:17 · Score: 1

It's true some of these things may HAVE BEEN democratic at one point or another, but are enshrined now. You can't, say, change alcohol laws without a small but vocal minority trying to get you unseated from government. It was democracy for our grandparents, but it's dictatorial for us.
I'm sorry, did some dictator take away the right to vote? If not, then stop your whining, get out, and campaign on your issue. Vocal minorities have rights too.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by khallow · 2012-07-20 16:22 · Score: 1

Yeah something similar also happened in Russia and China too.

And a good portion of those body counts are due to ideas hatched in the 1848 "spring". I don't intend this comparison to be fully comforting, but rather to point out a similar situation which in the long term bettered the lives of hundreds of millions, but at terrible cost.
Re:What is the problem? by Austerity+Empowers · 2012-07-20 16:22 · Score: 1

Let's pretend pot does cause lung cancer. I'm not sure why it should be your choice to keep me from killing myself, as long as I am debt free and my children have reached majority. I think you get a say in the latter two cases because in that case my legacy DOES affect you. I understand there are some health-care corner cases, maybe a waiver needs signing. But as a responsible adult I think I ought to be able to ruin myself if I choose.
Actually this adds one more to my list:
- Government prohibition against suicide. As far as I can tell this comes from religion.
Choice quotes for the Indonesian Government by bmo · 2012-07-20 16:26 · Score: 1

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." -- Princess Leia
http://youtu.be/-wntX-a3jSY
"Did you know that if you put a little hat on a snowball, can last a long time in Hell?" -- Dogbert.
http://i.imgur.com/iFd5w.jpg
--
BMO
that is well said by circletimessquare · 2012-07-20 16:38 · Score: 1

however i fear the egotism of blind strident individualism just as much as egotism of herd behavior
it is the difference between this person (ok):
"i'm just exercising my personal freedom" (smokes weed)
and this person (not ok):
"i'm just exercising my personal freedom" (turns car ignition, drunk)
you can do whatever you please in this world, just as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. the "just as long as it doesn't hurt someone else" is something a lot of people have a problem grasping
freedom, and responsibility. there is not one, without the other

--
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Re:What is the problem? by khallow · 2012-07-20 17:15 · Score: 1

If we force drug users to pay upfront for illnesses (or, else, drop dead without any care) caused by their own stupidity then this is workable, otherwise you're just setting up a cost that non-drug users must indirectly cover via taxes (whether the system is single-payer or just defaulting on hospital bills).
I have no problem with that. Or with non-drug users paying the consequences of their stupid policy decisions.

I notice you fail to turn this creative rationalizing against legal drugs such as tobacco and alcohol.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by TubeSteak · 2012-07-20 19:00 · Score: 3, Interesting

I've actually had quite well educated and otherwise intelligent Muslims lay down the 'you cannot understand the Koran except in Arabic' line on me. Its a logical fallacy.
Have you ever put 5 or 6 different translations of the bible side by side and compared them?
http://www.biblestudytools.com/exodus/1-8-compare.html
It's really not that far fetched to claim a translation will not do justice to the original language.
I'd even argue that reading a really old book without annotations, even in the original language,
means you're going to miss out on important context that is assumed, suggested, or implied.
Just as an example: Jewish scholars spend decades studying the Talmud in its original Hebrew and Aramaic.
What makes you think a translation will allow for the same kind of understanding?

--
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Re:What is the problem? by houghi · 2012-07-20 19:07 · Score: 3, Funny

Don't forget that the female nipple can not be shown either. If you do, there will be a huge public outcry.
The female nipple is dangerous for children, or something like that.

--
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Exercise in Futility by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-20 20:23 · Score: 1

Indonesian here. The article exaggerates a little on how much it really impacts the people here. Most people here don't care about it, cause most of them know "Where there is a will, there is a way.". They will always find a way to circumvent these restrictions. In fact I just did, change the DNS server, and you're done.
So yeah, the actual situation here is not as bad as the article make it out to be .
Exercise in Futility by bimozx · 2012-07-20 20:29 · Score: 4, Informative

Indonesian here. The article exaggerates a little on how much it really impacts the people here. Most people here don't care about it, cause most of them know "Where there is a will, there is a way.". They will always find a way to circumvent these restrictions. In fact I just did, change the DNS server, and you're done. So yeah, the actual situation here is not as bad as the article make it out to be .
What? by lennier1 · 2012-07-20 21:15 · Score: 1

A million porn sites? They're not even scratching the surface.
Ramadan = Fasting Month for Islam by Taco+Cowboy · 2012-07-20 21:31 · Score: 1

FYI :

The holiday comes at the end of the fasting month of Ramadan

--
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by fnj · 2012-07-20 23:48 · Score: 1

I can tell you there is a very tiny chance any significant number of readers will feel differently about it in a century, and zero readers will feel differently about it in two centuries.
That is simply because very, very few readers will still be alive in a century, and none of them will be so in two centuries.
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by khallow · 2012-07-21 00:48 · Score: 1

That is simply because very, very few readers will still be alive in a century, and none of them will be so in two centuries.
Well this off-topic, but what do you base that speculation on? And what makes you think readers won't still be around in two centuries?
Business as usual, move along... by MadCat · 2012-07-21 01:09 · Score: 3, Informative

I live in Indonesia, just so we've got that out of the way (read that as: I know what I'm talking about). This is business as usual, these "blockades" are nothing more than some cheap DNS tricks, and depending on your ISP either changing your DNS servers to Google or OpenDNS or just running a little proxy will get you around it just fine.
The only reason this is news is that the presidential elections are going to be happening in 2014 and a lot of officials are already jockeying for position, considering the current president is most likely on his way out in a hurry. The minister in question (Tifatul Sembiring) is also a totally technically clueless guy, so he just dictates "block stuff" and Indonesia being Indonesia, ISP's may or may not actually get it right and block things.
So, just business as usual, move along...
P.S. It's not "Indonesia's holy month" by the way, it's an Islamic thing, it's being observed world wide.

--
There is no sig...
Re:I'm expecting another Arab Spring there real so by mister_playboy · 2012-07-21 02:43 · Score: 1, Insightful

This is a sort of "No True Scotsman" fallacy and a means of deflecting arguments that one cannot effectively counter. If the teacher cannot adequately explain the lesson to the student, then that is a failing of the teacher and not the student. The teacher needs to pick a form the student can make use of.
Further, it is an implicit admission that said religious book of choice cannot be useful to every human in any one form. That's an important concept, emphasizing the importance of content over form.
A universal theology has been, is, and will be, impossible.

--
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
Re:What is the problem? by Austerity+Empowers · 2012-07-21 09:20 · Score: 1

If I'm diagnosed with terminal cancer, I would like the option to end it up front, rather than spend all my savings and/or suffer for a long period of time. Yeah yeah "a miracle COULD happen", but I think I, and I alone should make that choice.
Suicide could be solved if we wanted to. The government could give people a quick, painless death provided they settle their financial affairs and responsibilities first. Although I do not have much faith in psychology (or any social science) as science, if we want to screen people who are merely depressed, that's something we can discuss, on the merits of the issue alone.
I do not think other people's emotional concerns should be paramount in this. Grown adults should have the capacity to handle the loss of loved ones, regardless of how it happened. All the government should provide for is to ensure it is done responsibly.