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In Advance of Ramadan, Indonesian Gov't Starts Massive Censorship Push
An anonymous reader writes "The Indonesian government has blocked access to 1 million pornographic websites in advance of Ramadan, the country's holy month. Internet censorship is nothing new in Indonesia, but the scale of this particular restriction is unprecedented. Apparently this is only the beginning. Minister Tifatul Sembiring said Wednesday his office would target more sites through the country's holy month, and beyond."
Because Islam is the state religion.
your best ascii art mohamed below.
Given the libido-suppressive effects of caloric restriction, wouldn't it make more sense to step up their precious little moral crusade(jihad?) during all non-ramadan periods and slack off during that month?
I never said you shouldn't, I was simply answering the obvious before it was asked.
Okay, possibly I'm stupid or out of touch, but I've been around the interwebs for a while and seen my share of stuff. It just doesn't seem likely that there are a million porn sites. I wouldn't have guessed 1 million in the world, and certainly not 1 million that the Indonesian government can block.
Here's an article in Forbes article that says
That's a far cry from 1 million. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/julieruvolo/2011/09/07/how-much-of-the-internet-is-actually-for-porn/)
Maybe they mean 1 million pages. Or maybe there are a million sites that only host a single drawing of Mickey banging Minnie doggie-style. Or maybe they mean something different by the word "pornographic." But 1 million pornhubs? 1 million redtubes? I'm having a hard time believing this.
It's the holy month of Ramadan where Muslims fast for a whole month and then have a big feast at the end of it.
Because it's a month long 'holiday' doesn't really do it justice. Life still goes on, just at strange hours and in strange ways. I've had islamic scholars tell me that part of the point is to experience hunger, so when some Muslims switch to being nocturnal they're missing the point. But that happens a lot of places, the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law so to speak.
Technically Indonesia is not an islamic state, they recognize a couple of religions (some of Islam, some of Christianity, Confucianism, Buddhism, and Hinduism), but as is practically the case, with just shy of 90% of the population being (or at least claiming to be) Muslim you can't really get around Islamic tradition.
That is a worthy notion, as we are just as bad about letting our dominant religion limit our freedom. Here in the US, our own dominant religious element has decided for us:
- Prostitution will be illegal (mostly), in spite of the high demand
- Alcohol is restricted, in some places illegal to sell at all times, in others illegal to sell at certain times (frequently Sunday mornings)
- Same sex partners cannot have a legally binding marriage, with full benefits
- You may be married to one, and only one person (who must be of the opposite sex) at any given time (granted, I don't think our legal system could handle the larger case, presently)
- In some settings you may be limited about what you can say on certain topics (sex, evolution, religion, etc.)
- "G.D." is a forbidden expression on television
It's true some of these things may HAVE BEEN democratic at one point or another, but are enshrined now. You can't, say, change alcohol laws without a small but vocal minority trying to get you unseated from government. It was democracy for our grandparents, but it's dictatorial for us.
There are way more than 12 countries, so you know each country can't have their own holy month. Why do you think August being the countries holy month prevents other countries from having the same holy month.
August isn't the holy month, Ramadan is. Why do you think one calendar would prevent there being other calendars?
You can take away their rights, and you can take away their money, but take away their porn, and the people will revolt. :-D
*sigh*
I think it would be fairer to say that you can take away their money, their rights and their lives, but that story won't get posted on Slashdot until it involves porn.
The Indonesian government and military have tried to maintain a complete media blackout on the ongoing human rights abuses -including torture and murder- in the occupied territory of West Papua, which was annexed while the world looked away. This oppression has been going on for a generation, but nobody chooses to care, because of Indonesia's status as the largest pro-US muslim country in the world.
But yeah, boobs. Let's support those horny Indonesians by slashdotting bringbacktheporn.com. That'll get the add revenue going.
Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
Actually it isn't in Indonesia. The country is founded on it's five principles "Pancasila"
The belief in monotheism is part of the constitution,...
HOWEVER, Islam is not the state religion, despite the overwhemling majority of citizens claiming to be Muslim.
In fact Atheism is illegal in the country.
It's not so surprising when the population mostly still believes in ghosts and spirits.
You can take away their rights, and you can take away their money, but take away their porn, and the people will revolt. :-D
I guess you don't know much about Indonesian history then, they overthrew their dictator 14 years ago. That said, even in the 80's Indonesia was one of the most liberal of muslim countries, and since 1998 have become one of the most democratic as well.
From a western perspective they still have a long way to go, but they are a million miles ahead of the "Arab Spring" countries.
It's a beautiful country full of beautiful, kind, gentle people. Please learn more before you shoot your mouth off.
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
I wonder how they enforce that. All someone would have to do is not openly admit to being an atheist.
The sooner the world gets rid of religion, the better off we will be. Religion holds us back... for the first time ever in history, the combined knowledge of humanity is available in one place for those who care to look for it and yet these theocracies throw it away in favor of blind faith in primitive mythology. Sure, they're just blocking porn right now, but what stops them from blocking anything that undermines their power? It's absolutely sad that some 7th century Arab tribesman's scam to get money, power, and women has persisted all the way to the 21st century. Christianity is not much better, however I give it credit for not being in the "killing people" phase anymore.
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
In fact Atheism is illegal in the country.
Blessed be FSM. RAmen.
Have gnu, will travel.
They actually feast at the end of everyday, not just the end of the month. It is very often a community feast (called Iftar), where friends & neighbors (even the ones that are well off) are invited. I agree with you on the rest, though.
This is how - jailing atheists and closing Christian churches.
Maybe they should block sites where they sell, show or discuss food, too, in order to avoid tempting them.
Yes, but there are regional revolts still under way in parts of Indonesia and an earlier major one didn't really stop until the Tsunami.
They are less of a religious government than what you have in the USA but they still do things like this to keep some religious voters happy.
I wonder how they enforce that. All someone would have to do is not openly admit to being an atheist. The sooner the world gets rid of religion, the better off we will be. Religion holds us back... for the first time ever in history, the combined knowledge of humanity is available in one place for those who care to look for it and yet these theocracies throw it away in favor of blind faith in primitive mythology. Sure, they're just blocking porn right now, but what stops them from blocking anything that undermines their power? It's absolutely sad that some 7th century Arab tribesman's scam to get money, power, and women has persisted all the way to the 21st century. Christianity is not much better, however I give it credit for not being in the "killing people" phase anymore.
Religion isn't the problem. Using the force of law (i.e. men with guns) to enforce your brand of morality on others is the problem.
Religion is only one excuse for doing this. "For your safety" or "for the children" are others. The process is the same. The excuse is just that -- an excuse. It's all about power, control, and trying to force everyone to be like yourself because you are too insecure to be an individual. These are people who derive security from being among the like-minded. Consequently they feel threatened by someone who does not agree.
These are petty, egotistical little tyrants. The thing to understand about ego is that in its own eyes, it is never wrong and never at fault. Therefore, if my insecurity causes me to feel threatened, I absolutely cannot attribute that to insecurity or any other fault within myself (even though that would lead to personal growth*). I must blame it on the person who makes me feel insecure by believing something I don't. It's a scapegoat. If I happen to have political power, then I can put the force of law behind this. If not, I can cry about how "offended" I am and try to shame the other person into submission.
Most people are like this, unfortunately. This is part of why the world is the way that it is. That's why when most people find a radio program or TV show offensive, simply not listening or watching isn't good enough for them. They have to try to take it off the air. That's why people who don't drink alcohol want to support "no alcohol sales on Sunday" and other stupid, easily circumvented laws (stock up Saturday). It's why people who don't do drugs support throwing people in jail and ruining their lives over possession of a plant, even though they weren't driving intoxicated or otherwise endangering anyone.
They're cowards who don't have the strength to be individuals. That's why they cannot allow others to be individuals and make their own personal choices. Deep down they know they're cowards, so they try to appear big and fearsome. State power certainly satisfies that requirement, so they ally themselves to it. They're compensating** for personal shortcomings instead of facing them. The hardest part to understand is that these are subconscious processes -- the people themselves believes they're sincere and would probably pass any polygraph test. It's basic denial that becomes "fact" when it goes on long enough. The only exception to that would be most of the politicians, who view these cowards as little more than useful idiots who can be exploited to advance state power.
* Avoiding the introspection and never developing the courage to face one's own faults and work to remedy them makes these things self-perpetuating and self-reinforcing.
** Compensation is not a deliberate, planned process. It's more like a form of energy. Being energy, it is neither created nor destroyed; it changes form. Their cowardice changes into the form of support for bad laws that deserve none. The fear and ignorance that makes "for the children" laws possible is also like this.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Religions are just a source of philosophy for people without the time or inclination to ponder all of life's questions themselves. If you have the time to read over the works of philosophers and come up with a consistent viewpoint, more power to you. Most people don't, and those people can therefore either live without any self-consistent views on morality, or they can adopt a ready-made set in the form of a religion.
Consistent morality is important. Without it, people will just come up with a rationalization for whatever benefits them at this moment, with no regard for the long term implications. That path gets you state-endorsed torture, it gets you anti-death penalty people supporting drone strikes and assassinations, it gets you anti-homosexual pundits demonizing people when the very same Biblical verse against homosexuality also lists publicly denouncing someone as equally sinful, and so on.
But hey, religious people are behind all of those examples! Yeah, that was on purpose. Did you notice how as soon as a "Christian" leader decided torture was okay, all his supporters went along with it? It's because they aren't truly religious, they just like belonging to a special club. They don't actually care about the morality aspect. I don't want to specifically pick on Christians either. The Muslim suicide bombers and their leaders are in the same camp. They don't actually care about the faith, they just care about their special club -- the leaders like the power, the followers like the sense of purpose. Take away the religion, and they'll just come up with something else to rally behind... maybe race, maybe economic policy, maybe whether they eat their bread butter side up or down. Atheism doesn't solve anything. What we need is people to care more about finding a consistent moral basis.
Now, of course, organized religion is a problem, particularly when accepted without question. Any time that you accept a ready-made philosophy from a powerful organization, you have to assume that the organization has designed that philosophy to protect its interests. For example, contrast the core tenets of Judeo-Christian religions (don't kill, don't steal, etc.) with some of the lesser points (e.g. tithing). It's pretty clear that certain ideas are important, while others are just there so that some old men in Rome can live comfortably.
In short, what people should do, for the good of all humanity, is learn the good lessons, throw away the bad ones, and stop treating it as a team sport. This goes for atheists too. There have been great philosophers who didn't believe in a God, but people like Dawkins just make things worse by making everything so damn confrontational. Instead of providing readers with a consistent moral viewpoint, he just strokes their egos and gets rich doing it. No different from the priest who tells his flock their God's chosen people right before passing the hat.
ThatsMyNick makes valid points; let me take them further. Here in Indonesia, come Ramadan there's always a mad rush for clerics and politicos to do an "I'm holier than thou" act. Draconian pledges and swingeing action plans that turn out to be mere wishful thinking thunder from the media and every soapbox in the country - but they're all chimeras, sops to the gangs of religious fanatics that plague Indonesia. In reality this is one of the most tolerant Muslim communities in the world, but the proverbial few bad apples spoil the barrel.
Indonesia is in the Internet stone age. The country is rated near the very bottom of Internet provision - way below many third-world and developing countries. Those of us who 'enjoy' broadband pay through the nose for a seriously flawed and inadequate service, and we're laughing out loud at the very notion that the muppets who run our IT services can filter anything other than their monthly pay cheques.
Indonesia is essentially a Muslim theocracy. It is illegal to be atheist; people are in jail for it right now. Other religions aren't exactly safe, either.
Great Intellect...
http://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/news/20060523/pot-smoking-not-linked-to-lung-cancer
You're wrong.
May 23, 2006 -- People who smoke marijuana do not appear to be at increased risk for developing lung cancer, new research suggests.
While a clear increase in cancer risk was seen among cigarette smokers in the study, no such association was seen for regular cannabis users.
Even very heavy, long-term marijuana users who had smoked more than 22,000 joints over a lifetime seemed to have no greater risk than infrequent marijuana users or nonusers.
The findings surprised the study’s researchers, who expected to see an increase in cancer among people who smoked marijuana regularly in their youth.
See what happens when you don't look up the stuff you hear? You look silly.
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Of course a Muslim might argue that you cannot understand the Koran unless you read it in the original Arabic. Apparently the Arabic language is untranslatable into any other language and therefore cannot be learned by anyone who doesn't grow up with it as their mother tongue. So I guess noone who doesn't grow up with Arabic language can ever understand the Koran.
I've actually had quite well educated and otherwise intelligent Muslims lay down the 'you cannot understand the Koran except in Arabic' line on me. Its a logical fallacy.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
You can't approximate Ramadan by calling it August. it's based on a lunar calendar that is 12 to 14 days shorter each year than the Gregorian calendar. This means it moves relative to the Gregorian calendar each year such that Ramadan can/has/will occur alongside every month in the Gregorian calendar. You can call it a month because it is (maybe even more accurately so considering month comes from moon) but it shouldn't be called August since you might as well call it January or mid-March to mid-April.
You're (intentionally) equivocating. The Socratic method is to ask pointed questions as a means of testing a philosophy. Polemics, such as those written by Dawkins, make facile, feel-good arguments to make their readers happy. Both are confrontational, but one is constructive, while the other is all about running the other guy down.
You're (intentionally) equivocating. The Socratic method is to ask pointed questions as a means of testing a philosophy. Polemics, such as those written by Dawkins, make facile, feel-good arguments to make their readers happy. Both are confrontational, but one is constructive, while the other is all about running the other guy down.
Given the only difference between the two styles is mostly a matter of subjective opinion, why shouldn't I intentionally equivocate here? Socrates apparently ran a lot of people down during his career ass professional gadfly. And frankly, getting your belief system run down seems a good way to test its weaknesses.
I've actually had quite well educated and otherwise intelligent Muslims lay down the 'you cannot understand the Koran except in Arabic' line on me. Its a logical fallacy.
Have you ever put 5 or 6 different translations of the bible side by side and compared them?
http://www.biblestudytools.com/exodus/1-8-compare.html
It's really not that far fetched to claim a translation will not do justice to the original language.
I'd even argue that reading a really old book without annotations, even in the original language,
means you're going to miss out on important context that is assumed, suggested, or implied.
Just as an example: Jewish scholars spend decades studying the Talmud in its original Hebrew and Aramaic.
What makes you think a translation will allow for the same kind of understanding?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Don't forget that the female nipple can not be shown either. If you do, there will be a huge public outcry.
The female nipple is dangerous for children, or something like that.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Indonesian here. The article exaggerates a little on how much it really impacts the people here. Most people here don't care about it, cause most of them know "Where there is a will, there is a way.". They will always find a way to circumvent these restrictions. In fact I just did, change the DNS server, and you're done. So yeah, the actual situation here is not as bad as the article make it out to be .
I do definitely not "believe" that there is no god in the same sense as you might believe that there is one. And I think every atheist/agnostic will say the same.
Your believe is based on stories and myths. I don't have that. Thats it. I am not believing in anything on the grounds of myths and stories.
Religions are just a source of philosophy for people without the time or inclination to ponder all of life's questions themselves. If you have the time to read over the works of philosophers and come up with a consistent viewpoint, more power to you. Most people don't, and those people can therefore either live without any self-consistent views on morality, or they can adopt a ready-made set in the form of a religion.
Consistent morality is important. Without it, people will just come up with a rationalization for whatever benefits them at this moment, with no regard for the long term implications. That path gets you state-endorsed torture, it gets you anti-death penalty people supporting drone strikes and assassinations, it gets you anti-homosexual pundits demonizing people when the very same Biblical verse against homosexuality also lists publicly denouncing someone as equally sinful, and so on.
But hey, religious people are behind all of those examples! Yeah, that was on purpose. Did you notice how as soon as a "Christian" leader decided torture was okay, all his supporters went along with it? It's because they aren't truly religious, they just like belonging to a special club. They don't actually care about the morality aspect. I don't want to specifically pick on Christians either. The Muslim suicide bombers and their leaders are in the same camp. They don't actually care about the faith, they just care about their special club -- the leaders like the power, the followers like the sense of purpose. Take away the religion, and they'll just come up with something else to rally behind... maybe race, maybe economic policy, maybe whether they eat their bread butter side up or down. Atheism doesn't solve anything. What we need is people to care more about finding a consistent moral basis.
Now, of course, organized religion is a problem, particularly when accepted without question. Any time that you accept a ready-made philosophy from a powerful organization, you have to assume that the organization has designed that philosophy to protect its interests. For example, contrast the core tenets of Judeo-Christian religions (don't kill, don't steal, etc.) with some of the lesser points (e.g. tithing). It's pretty clear that certain ideas are important, while others are just there so that some old men in Rome can live comfortably.
In short, what people should do, for the good of all humanity, is learn the good lessons, throw away the bad ones, and stop treating it as a team sport. This goes for atheists too. There have been great philosophers who didn't believe in a God, but people like Dawkins just make things worse by making everything so damn confrontational. Instead of providing readers with a consistent moral viewpoint, he just strokes their egos and gets rich doing it. No different from the priest who tells his flock their God's chosen people right before passing the hat.
The whole post is an apology for religion. Of course if we go deep down it's the human nature that it's bad, but religion enhances that aspect of it. About dawkins and him being confrontational, there is no progress with being carebears. Maybe we should heal the horde to their death ? Or - and i want to bring godwin here - should we have become friends with the nazis ? The only way to fix cancer is to remove it, that is, being confrontational with it.
I live in Indonesia, just so we've got that out of the way (read that as: I know what I'm talking about). This is business as usual, these "blockades" are nothing more than some cheap DNS tricks, and depending on your ISP either changing your DNS servers to Google or OpenDNS or just running a little proxy will get you around it just fine.
The only reason this is news is that the presidential elections are going to be happening in 2014 and a lot of officials are already jockeying for position, considering the current president is most likely on his way out in a hurry. The minister in question (Tifatul Sembiring) is also a totally technically clueless guy, so he just dictates "block stuff" and Indonesia being Indonesia, ISP's may or may not actually get it right and block things.
So, just business as usual, move along...
P.S. It's not "Indonesia's holy month" by the way, it's an Islamic thing, it's being observed world wide.
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