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Is Phoenix the Next Silicon Valley?
SpicyBrownMustard writes "There's no secret to a rising level of 'Silicon Valley fatigue' lately, and the new reality show certainly isn't helping. And with hacker hostels packing in twenty somethings fueling the 'it's okay to fail' incubator culture that now is actually hurting startups, it's no wonder weariness with the culture is setting in. Forbes.com asks the question: Is Phoenix The Next Silicon Valley? The article covers a startup with a couple names you might know, who picked Phoenix due to its much lower cost of living and different quality of life. The startup's CTO, 'explains that having so much more financial freedom lowers the stress associated with working for a startup, as he can enjoy work/live balance.' Their location certainly didn't hurt fundraising, as they managed $2 million in seed capital. Are we indeed moving on from Silicon Valley for tech startups?"
Phoenix ?!? Has anyone ever been there?
This is pure long-shot PR from someone with real estate interests..
You can dispense with wafer ovens altogether... just put your silicon outside in the parking lot...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_Law_of_Headlines
Is Phoenix The Next Silicon Valley?
Dear God, I hope not. In the current political climate, as an immigrant, I am avoiding Arizona entirely unless it's absolutely required.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
I mean, I can think of a little company from Albuquerque that ended up doing pretty well for itself.
I am officially gone from
For over a decade people keep saying "X" will be the next Silicon Valley. And they then go on and forget they made such ridiculous predictions and nobody every calls them on it.
FYI The next Silicon Valley continues to be Silicon Valley, as it reinvents itself (and replacing itself with something even more inexplicable the next time.)
So now you know. And you can quote me on it.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I won't go.
I thought the ubiquity of high-speed internet access almost everywhere eliminated the need for centering technological progress around a particular geography...
Also, heat is bad for electronics, so why in the name of everything holy would tech startups want to base themselves in an area that regularly experiences triple-digit temperatures?
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Betteridge's Law of Headlines applies.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
The portrait that the national media likes to paint of Arizona is fairly inaccurate - especially when it comes to the people working in technology.
It's an outdated, overplayed stereotype. Idiot local politicians on the right like to rattle their sabers to garner press. Truth be told, the state is about as balanced with its share of both "normal" people and nutjobs on both sides of the aisle.
My IT architecture team is a snapshot of diversity.
The IT arm of my (large) company is fairly representative of IT shops in general -- and the only segregation is among the H1-B types who live/eat/work together, since their teams are often contract-based.
Sounds like he hit a nerve.
People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
Summers in Phoenix do suck, but frankly the mostly-dry summers of Phoenix are infinitely more tolerable than summers in the South or in the mid-West.
So you have no problem with the laws of the US but a problem with the state of Arizona actually enforcing these laws? Fan-friggin-tastic.
You're missing the point. The fact that Arizona has a cultural image problem with a big hunk of the population is likely to make it more difficult to recruit talent, which is essential to the success or failure of any company, and start-ups in particular. It's hard enough already to lure the top people to your company. Why make it harder? Easier to just locate someplace else. If they like the bed they've made, good for them. The Supreme Court validated the single biggest part of their legislation. But that doesn't mean I, or a lot of the people I hire, suddenly feel like it's a good idea to go live there.
Speaking only for myself, I have a problem with Arizona enacting (and enforcing) laws that are plainly discriminatory and largely driven by old white men angrily brandishing guns. Arizona is, from my perspective, out of step with the vast majority of These United States.
But that's just me.
People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
I'm an electrical engineer in Phoenix who is actively trying to leave. You pretty much have Intel, Honeywell, and Freescale (ha!) on a large scale, a bunch of other companies with satellite offices locally, and some smaller startup types. From the inside, it certainly doesn't feel special relative to any other large city, and there still is nowhere near the density of tech companies that Silicon Valley has. Could it get there? I suppose. But so could Austin, or Seattle, or Irvine, and so on.
The weather is much more pleasant in Colorado.
The only thing is the cost of living is not quite as low as Arizona. But it sure beats California...
There's a ton of technical stuff going on all across the state, and only Colorado has places to suit ideology anywhere on the spectrum (far left, Boulder. far right, Colorado Springs. Independent? Anywhere).
Also they have laws to prevent idiots from hanging in the left lane forever preventing you from passing trucks. So unlike California, highways actually work here.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Thanks for confirming my suspicion.
Despite Joe's antics, he'll get elected again because his politics aren't what most of the voting populous of AZ cares about.
Things like Tent City suck, and we like when our criminals get sent there. We like that he deputizes people to track down deadbeat dads or keep gangbangers out of mall parking lots. We like that he's a mean son of a bitch. We want our stupid kids locked up and put in a chain-gang for the week when they get a drunk driving charge.
We overlook the fact that he panders to the media on the right with birther nonsense, because he's not a position in our government where it matters. [Hint, the MCSO doesn't determine presidential eligibility.]
$2 million in capital raised. So what are they opening, a Burger King?
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
I see this all the time though. "Nobody wants to work there, it's too hot!" Never "Nobody wants to work there, it's too cold!" Am I so much in the minority that it's never even considered that people might want a warm climate?
Everything is better with chainsaws.
On a side note, what do you have against reducing the size of government and federal spending?
What do I have against it?
I believe everyone should be provided healthcare by the state, because I don't think we can trust private entities to resist the temptation to charge more and more for healthcare services (because they know we HAVE to pay it...).
I believe the government should regulate what pollutants industry is allowed to dump into the earth/water.
I believe the government should provide free education to all of its citizens.
I believe the government should regulate financial industries and banks.
Frankly, I believe there are MANY things the government should do, because either they are the only ones who can do it, or because the sector should not be trying to make a profit.
If you want to reduce government, set your sights on the massive "defense" budget. Leave what (limited) social services the USA has alone.
-- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
and pay your employees half
The ratio is not nearly that big. Maybe 10% to 20% less. Blows the minds of my coastie and Chicago friends. Depends on what field you're in, I suppose.
Note this fact doesn't help the argument much, but it does explain why I have absolutely no interest in moving. I'd only need a 200% pay raise to maintain the same standard of living.... oh thanks GOOG for that generous offer of 20% more, but I'm not even going to bother talking to your recruiter for that little... I'm not moving into a cardboard box under the overpass just to work for you, LOL.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
I've lived in Scottsdale for the past 2 years, having previously lived in Chicago and Silicon Valley. The vast majority of developers here are C# developers who would rate between a B- and a D if graded on their development skills. The vast majority of development jobs in Phoenix are also centered around C#; seeing as most web-based startups are using Java or LAMP as their underpinning technology, Phoenix's labor pool and developer job opportunities simply aren't aligned to maintain a robust startup environment. Additionally, development jobs pay anywhere from 30-50% less than other major coder cities. Lower cost of living be damned; if companies are looking to hire C# developers for $70k/year, they're not going to attract top talent. Chicago, San Jose, Austin ... you could spend an afternoon listing all of the cities that are healthier for startups and talented developers. And, all of these issues are just the tip of the spear - we haven't even addressed the political climate in Arizona. Good luck convincing talented developers here on an H1B that Arizona is a safe place to live and work.
Well, it's the fifth-largest city in the USA. Apparently, someone has not only been there but is still there.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
And as one native to another, can you really see this happening? I mean, seriously: attempting to replace Standford with ASU? Getting people to choose Maricopa over the Bay Area? GMAFB.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
You have essentially answered your own question.
On one hand, you say that you disagree with Arizona laws because of the beliefs of the people that live there. This is a problem because it makes Arizona out of step with the majority of the US.
But.. the majority of the US is not in Arizona. That's why it's called Arizona. It's a different place from where you live. If you don't live there, why do you care?
Do you have a problem with marijuana dispensaries every three blocks in Denver (assuming you don't live in Colorado)?
How about *insert some other random law approved by the state which gets challenged federally*?
Let the states conduct their own business.
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
You wish. We've got a vigilante group here in Arizona, call themselves "Minutemen" than routinely walk the border. These idiots are are NOT cops. They are civilians with guns that shoot first. That's just a sample of AZ. I hate this place but can't afford to leave.
Why would anyone want to be in the same state as Arpaio, let alone 30 miles away? Don't they know how that works? That area is full of crazies.
Things like Tent City suck, and we like when our criminals get sent there.
What about the innocent, but accused? You did know that the majority of Tent Citie's population are merely accused and awaiting trial, right?
But I'm wasting my time. You're exactly the kind of authoritarian asshole that keeps any sort of sensible person out of Phoenix. I hope you get falsely accused of a crime in August.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Sorry, but he was right on. The issue of Joe Arpaio, tea party rallies and general things involving areas near Phoenix result in that I would be unwilling to work or even consider relocating to that area - even for 10-50x my salary. I'm sorry, but with actual people being herpa-derp stupid enough to shoot actual politicians, who would want to associate with such an area? Then you have unfriendly weather climates (hello 120+ degrees).
Climate issues, politicial issues, general public issues.
Doesn't make Phoenix a hub of web start ups
In general, Phoenix is a boring place, and boring doesn't attract talent. For some reason, Phoenicians chose to build themselves a flat, heat-magnifying city of asphalt and concrete in an already hot location, instead of shade trees and tall buildings to help block the sunlight. Consequently, there are few vibrant, walkable areas (downtown Tempe is/was a notable exception), and there's not much to do in the summer except watch TV or go to the theater, the mall, or a water park.
No, Phoenix isn't a good tech incubator. Phoenix is where you move your company after you've completed the real innovation and you just need cheap labor to keep the business running.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
Nothing is green in Silicon Valley either, unless somebody waters it. I remember not being allowed to water a lawn or wash a car when I lived there, so everything was brown.
:wq
I do not hide under an AC.
Living close the border I have seen the evils of illagal immigration when I lived in Riverside California. My exwife is from there and it is turning 3rd world. Not because I am a racist evil person who is a member of the KKK, but rather my ex worked in a school district that went 70% American to 70% hispanic in 15 short years, doubled the student population, cut fundinging by 1/3, cut all our family friends salaries, except increased one business owners' salary tremendousnly from the cheaper labor.
You can't drive past a Home Depot with 30 hispanics ready to jump in a truck for work. My ex's friend did construction and made good monay back in the 1990s and he can't compete with these people. As a result people are getting poorer and poorer each year while taxes keep going up driving employers away.
If ICE did its job and went into these home depots and busted them up, stopped trucks with 10 people on them, deported all the parents of these children you can be economic recovery would take place.
H1b1 and greencards are welcome and an important step but Arizona is the only state that had the balls to do it without fear of the hispanic vote. All the other states lost control.
http://saveie6.com/
Life time Arizona resident here.
Actually the high tech industry is thriving here. It's as easy to get immigrants to work here as anywhere else. I should know, I work for a fortune 100 tech company who is based out of Phoenix, and we have a fair share of immigrant employees. Arizona only discriminates against illegal immigration. And it's not just white people that do it, even the legal immigrants have a problem with illegal immigration.
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
Where the heck do you live?
"The Valley" he refers to is "Silicon Valley," not "the Valley of the Sun."
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Since you didn't bother to specify which, now disbanded, Arizonian "minutemen" group, there's the murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores by Shawna Forde (State of Arizona vs. Shawna Forde (court case number CR-20092300-001, Pima County)), the founder of the splinter group Minutemen American Defense, and Jason Bush (State of Arizona vs. Jason Eugene Bush (court case number CR-20092300-003, Pima County)).
Actually federal law already requires ALL immigrants to register and carry some form of documentation at all times, legal or otherwise. A green card will suffice.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1304
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1306
So the "papers please" argument already applies nationwide.
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
This is a myth perpetuated by people who pull reasons out of hats and other dark orifices to empty your wallet. If any of this smoke had even a passing hint of reality to it, we would be seeing a global pattern that would bear this out. Such a pattern is embarrassingly absent. Here's what is present,
Americas spend more for medicine than any people on the planet; per capita: $7,146, as a percentage of GDP: 15.2%
Our life expectancy is 42 (50th for new borns) in the world falling behind Cuba and Chile, Our child mortality rate is one of the highest in the industrialized world.
The WHO rated American medicine over all at 72 of 191, being beaten by Mexico, Sri Lanka and Uraguay, but tied in a dead heat with Surinam.
Medical care is the number 1 reason for bankruptcy being a a significant cause in 46.2% and mentioned in 62.1% of all bankruptcies.
The United States is one of only 3 industrialize countries (the other two being Mexico and Turkey) on the planet that failed to cover virtually all of their citizens (at least 98.4%) with complete medical coverage. As a result, a 2009 Harvard study reported that 44,900 American's die needlessly every year due to lack of access to affordable medical care.
We have a ridiculous run away malpractice problem, for profit hospitals that have no problem charging $10 for an antacid tablet that costs less than a penny, semiprivate hospital rooms that can cost $20,000 a day, doctors charging $250 for a 30 second visit, pharmaceutical companies who no longer produce useful drugs, but keep pumping out analogues of prior cash cow meds to keep drug patents and fat profits coming, while at the same time moving heaven and earth to sabotage and undermine the generic drug industry, and a greedy insurance system that gladly spins the whole disaster on and on as it take ever fatter slices for itself. This is the picture of an industry rife with greed, gluttony, payola, bribery and an utter disregard for human life or dignity.
Anyone who thinks for a moment that this industry doesn't need to be regulated within an inch of its existence, has no clue to the depth and breath of the depravity that has been visited on the American people. It has passed being a bad joke, its beyond obscene, it is now a full on tragedy, a national shame, an indictment of our system of enterprise and government. It is a blight on our children and nothing less than beating it back into a not for profit service designed to protect and promote the health and well being of PEOPLE is an acceptable answer.
I've been in this field for a long-long time
I was in the Silicon Valley when the thing got started and I benefited handsomely
IMHO, the "Silicon Valley Phenomenon" is a one-time happening
It happened because of many factors
* The concentration of critical mass of coherent talents - mostly comprised of remnants of the hippies with their Groovy mindset, and earlier batch of the baby boomers who were, in one way or another, influenced by the hippies culture
* It occurred at a time when the "change culture" finally arrived at the tech scene - with hobbyists earnestly believed that they could build their own gadgets with solders and breadboards
* And the Silicon Valley happened to provide a venue, the place, for the talents to gather and trade their ideas
We also need to understand that the Silicon Valley phenomenon occurred way before Internet - which means, people _still_ had to congregate in ONE PHYSICAL PLACE in order to trade ideas
With Internet, people no longer need to gather physically in one place in order to trade ideas
There have been many attempts in repeating the "Silicon Valley Success" all over the world - from Boston USA to East London, UK to Japan to even third world countries such as Malaysia, but none ever achieve same level of success as Silicon Valley
Why?
Simply because there is no need for yet-another Silicon Valley
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Our life expectancy is 42 (50th for new borns) in the world falling behind Cuba and Chile, Our child mortality rate is one of the highest in the industrialized world.
That is partly because most of those countries that rank ahead of the U.S. don't count infants that die in the first 24 hours as live births, while the U.S. does. Many countries throughout the world count infants that die in the first 24 hours as "stillbirths" rather than as live births. That means that children that die within 24 hours of birth do not count towards the life expectancy in those countries, while in the U.S. they do.
Interestingly, one of the countries that has a higher life expectancy than the U.S. is Japan. Yet, Japanese-Americans have a higher life expectancy than those that live in Japan.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison