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Bilingual Kids Show More Creativity

An anonymous reader tips news of a study from researchers at the University of Strathclyde which found bilingual children to be significantly more successful at a set of tasks than children who spoke only one language. "The differences were linked to the mental alertness required to switch between languages, which could develop skills useful in other types of thinking." Lead researcher Fraser Lauchlan said, "Bilingualism is now largely seen as being beneficial to children but there remains a view that it can be confusing, and so potentially detrimental to them. Our study has found that it can have demonstrable benefits, not only in language but in arithmetic, problem solving and enabling children to think creatively. We also assessed the children's vocabulary, not so much for their knowledge of words as their understanding of them. Again, there was a marked difference in the level of detail and richness in description from the bilingual pupils."

46 of 221 comments (clear)

  1. Multiculturalism by gagol · · Score: 2, Offtopic

    rocks!

    --
    Tomorrow is another day...
    1. Re:Multiculturalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No thanks. In the amount of time it takes to learn a new spoken/written language, I could have become an expert in any other more useful thing. If you speak English, there's little point to learning a second language. This isn't some arrogant pompous statement. I just mean that, in almost any business or travel situation you are likely to ever be in, the other people are likely going to speak a common tongue -- English.

      Some people say "well, gosh, you need to learn another language to be well-rounded and so you can travel". That's bullshit. Great, I learn German. That'll help me for the one week of my life that I ever spend visiting in Germany. How is it going to help me in Japan, China, Mexico, Spain, Canada, France, Norway, Iceland, Russia, Sweden or any other place?

      I'm almost 40. I'm a professional. I deal in a highly technical field with other highly technical people from all over the world who are from and working in all parts of the world. Every day, I deal with people who are French, Indian, German, Thai, Japanese, Chinese, Russian and countless other nationalities. At no point have I ever thought "gosh, I sure wish I knew ONE of these many languages". It just isn't necessary. Now, if you plan to go live and work in another country, sure. Learn the language. If your whole goal is to be a specialist in arab history, learn arabic. Great. But you don't need to learn a second, third, or even fourth language for most jobs and you certainly don't need it in your day to day life.

    2. Re:Multiculturalism by zAPPzAPP · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I wasn't biligual as a child, but I am now at least.

      For me, from the moment on I was able to not only communicate, but also think in both languages, a lot changed.
      Certain concepts click together easily in one language, but if I had to use the other language to grasp them, I'd get stuck. And it's not always my first language which is superior, as you might expect.

      Each language brings with it a different way of thinking, the cultural aspect, that's coded into it.

      It's very helpful to switch between languages for different tasks. Kind of like using mutiple virtual desktops.

    3. Re:Multiculturalism by xaxa · · Score: 2

      Learning a language will teach you how to learn a language, which will be useful if you want to learn a few words of German for your holiday.

      I started German evening classes a couple of years ago, and was surprised at how two people in the class struggled so much. It turned out they were the only two (of about 14) who had never been taught another language, which was unusual for here (they were immigrants from the US and the Bahamas).

      (I could probably do something more useful than learn German, but I could also do something more useful than write this comment.)

    4. Re:Multiculturalism by Tim+the+Gecko · · Score: 2

      Great, I learn German. That'll help me for the one week of my life that I ever spend visiting in Germany. How is it going to help me in Japan, China, Mexico, Spain, Canada, France, Norway, Iceland, Russia, Sweden or any other place?

      It would help you a lot. You'd have a better understanding of what it's like to get by in a country without anyone knowing your language. You'd be grateful when people speak their language slowly and clearly and try and help you. Best of all, you can relate much better to the Japanese, Chinese, Mexican, Spanish, etc. people you meet in your own country.

      There are other nice things too. You'd have the experience of the first joke you "get" in a foreign language. The fact that you understand it makes even the crappiest "knock, knock" joke awesomely funny. And for your example specifically: "No one who speaks German could be an evil man".

    5. Re:Multiculturalism by ciurana · · Score: 4, Insightful

      4-language fluency here (Spanish, English, Russian, French) and working my way up in Japanese.

      The difference between doing business in English in a land where it's not the native language vs. the local/national language is huge. By not speaking the local language you limit your understanding ranging feim mere subtlety to complete conversations that may (and will) happen in front of you.

      Maybe it's because for a large chunk of the last 15 years I've arranged my business around international locales (e.g. I was doing business in 5 countries in July) -- I find knowing multiple languages to be a huge asset. It fine tuned my cultural sensibility and my ear (e.g. I can grasp significant snippets in Polish, German, Italian during a biz conversation). And it helps to lubricate all social situations.

      The ages at which I learned them were English: 16; French: 18; Russian: 24; Japanese (which I use the least and I'm far from fluent): 38. If I went to Japan on business more than 5 weeks/year I'd probably be more fluent.

      In the US or abroad I deal daily with people who speak these languages. Communicating with them in their native language can often create rapport and a better experience much faster. Great for business and interpersonal relationships.

      Just my $0.02 back. Cheers!

      --
      http://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
    6. Re:Multiculturalism by mce · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm almost 50 in a highly technical field, but I can assure you that mastering 4 languages (Dutch, English, French, German - all reasonably fluently) is an enormous help. I have team members that are native French speakers with a limited knowledge of English. I have team members who are native German speakers and are quite fluent in English, but who still communicate faster in German. For me as the team leader it helps enormously that I can switch on the fly.

      Much more important, however, even as a "technical manager" I constantly have to deal with suppliers & potential customers from all over the world. Being able to switch languages to their native one or at least to their second best one opens an enormous amount of doors. Germany is a particularly good example of this. Especially in southern Germany practical knowledge of English is limited - even amongst engineers. They are always very pleasantly surprised when they discover that a foreigner speaks German fluently enough to do business with them. And if "doing business" sounds not technical enough, the same applies to our field application engineers. As a worldwide company, we have field application engineers "everywhere", but we cannot afford to have them in every country. So we require them to be multilingual so they can cover a wider area, travel with ease, and deal with people who master English less than perfectly.

      You say "how will German help me in Japan, China, Mexico, Spain, Canada, France, Norway, Iceland, Russia, Sweden or any other place?" And indeed, German will not help you in Japan. But it will help you in many European countries. French and Spanish will help you in a very large part of the world. Think of Africa & South America, for instance.

      Finally, the whole point of the reported research is that having grown up in a multilingual environment helps in other ways than just knowing languages.I fully understand that this may be hard to believe for people who didn't have that luck - a bit like inhabitants of flatland can't imagine the third dimension. But that doesn't make it untrue.

    7. Re:Multiculturalism by Alioth · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, it is a pompous and arrogant statement, in many places they won't be able to speak English, especially if you go away from anywhere touristy.

      I started learning Spanish 4 years ago, basically because I felt like some Imperialist speaking English slowly and loudly at foreigners. It has had benefits I never even imagined, and never went out intending to have when I learned it. I only started so I could learn enough to do touristy things - get a hotel room, order a beer, get food, find directions, but it sort of turned into an addiction when I found out that learning languages was actually fun, and not the dull boring slog they made us do when they forced us to learn French at school (and unfortunately, I still don't speak more than 2 words of French. I learned almost nothing about French at school, partly due to lack of effort, partly due to the sheer boredom that the method to teach French in school induced. Learning language should be fun, and it's something humans do naturally, and turning it into a boring difficult slog is completely counterproductive, and school language teaching has failed generations of kids in this country).

      Some of the unintended consequences that have happened: I've now got a whole heap of Spanish friends, and good friends too. I've discovered new music I never would have discovered. TV and films I would never have known. Food that I would never have tasted otherwise, all because speaking the language gets me places I otherwise wouldn't have been. All of those have been ten times worth the effort of learning Spanish, and it was fun to do anyway! And when we talk about highly technical subjects, we understand each other a lot better. Even if a Spanish person is speaking English, I can understand why they make certain errors in English and what they mean when they make these errors so it's been enormously helpful even if the person I'm talking to is actually speaking English. The time spent learning Spanish has paid off for me more than 100 times. With a little more effort I'll be fluent. I'm not a kid either, I was 36 when I started learning it. (I actually gave a talk in Spanish with only 14 months of learning under my belt, it's actually not as hard as you expect since you can prepare beforehand). And yes, I now use Spanish every day.

      Also there have been studies that have shown that bilingualism may be more effective in slowing things like Alzheimers than drugs.

    8. Re:Multiculturalism by blackest_k · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm getting old so learning new languages seems to be a lot harder than it once was. I started learning Polish 10 years ago and I am fairly competent enough to converse with Polish friends. I let rooms to Poles in my home which really helped me learn to learn a language well you must use it.

      The hard thing about learning languages is building a vocabulary getting those words into your brain and usable. My favourite aid is cuebrain I use it on android but it is available on Iphone and windows mobile. It is a flashcard system and fairly open there are a lot of language pairs available and you can add your own cuecards. It isn't limited to languages for example chemical elements was easy to create mapping symbol to name.

      Cuebrain (optionally) uses svox voices to speak the words, I bought hungarian and english so I can listen to as well as read the words. It could as easily be phrases. You can also compete against other users, trying to speed up to climb the rankings can become addictive.
      most card sets can be completed in around a minute or less once you are familiar with the set.
      so it's something you can do to kill time.
      Obviously you need to learn grammar and sentence structure and inflection too and unfortunately that can be a bit dry i use ebooks for that. Also Google translate is very useful especially when conversing over the internet. Of course google translate isn't perfect but with the drilling exercises more and more words will come to have meaning.

      Someone posted that different languages give you the ability to think differently and concepts can be easier in one language over another and that I would say is true.

      It would be interesting to find out what proportion of Slashdot users are multilingual I would have thought a majority can program to some extent and human languages are a natural extension to programming languages. I would think most of us have the aptitude and the intelligence to be quite successful at developing the capacity of our brains to think and be more creative.

      Funny how it is always the people who speak just one language who cannot see the advantage in speaking more than one :)

    9. Re:Multiculturalism by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      That's not multiculturalism, that's multilingualism. Something entirely different.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  2. Correlation, Causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Alternatively, bilingual children tend to be raised by people with greater drive and skill in problem solving, notably immigrants.

    1. Re:Correlation, Causation by gagol · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What about people living in Quebec, a lot people there speaks varying levels of english. Also in Europe, many people learn many languages there too. Cultural isolationism fail.

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    2. Re:Correlation, Causation by xaxa · · Score: 3, Informative

      Luxembourg is a good example -- people born there (to Luxembourgish parents) tend to speak Luxembourgish, German, French and English.

      Many people in Wales speak both English and Welsh.

      A huge number of Europeans speak their native language plus English, but how often they use English will depend on their occupation. Some universities give lectures in English (rather than the local language), and some workplaces work in English.

    3. Re:Correlation, Causation by oiron · · Score: 2

      Nice and Amerocentric!

      If you read TFA, you'd find that the study was of kids who spoke English and Gaelic, or Italian and Sardinian. That kind of assumes British or Italian/Sardinian kids, not immigrants to the US...

    4. Re:Correlation, Causation by nospam007 · · Score: 2

      "Luxembourg is a good example -- people born there (to Luxembourgish parents) tend to speak Luxembourgish, German, French and English."

      I'm from there and I can confirm that. German is the first one we learn officially at 5 years, French comes at 6.
      Kids watch French and German TV from an early age since there are only a couple of Luxembourgish programs.
      Lots of people (about 25%) also learn a fifth one in High School, either Spanish/Italian or Latin.

      Also a third of the population are immigrants who have trouble coping with that multitude of languages, since knowledge of those languages is expected when you enter High School. Science/Math etc are in French sometimes history in German and so on. If you are not fluent in those, you won't stand a chance.

  3. Some people think bilingualism causes confusion? by the_humeister · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Who the hell thinks this? I grew up in a bilingual household and then took Spanish in high school, so I'm semi-trilingual. Childhood is the best time to learn a new language since children can still hear the differences between phonemes that aren't present in the main society's language.

  4. Break out the Rosetta Stone by metalmaster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You dont even have to live in a multicultural community. Start early enough and the kid will learn the second language just as easy as they'll pick up on English

  5. California Public Schools by SageMusings · · Score: 2

    How does the disparity in performance among Hispanic kids factor into this study?

    --
    -- Posted from my parent's basement
    1. Re:California Public Schools by timeOday · · Score: 3, Interesting
      In a word, No. they did not study Hispanic kids in California. The first sentence of the link is:

      A study of primary school pupils who spoke English or Italian- half of whom also spoke Gaelic or Sardinian- found that the bilingual children were significantly more successful in the tasks set for them. The Gaelic-speaking children were, in turn, more successful than the Sardinian speakers.

      Without knowing anything about the demographics of Scotland and Sardinia I couldn't even guess about what other factors might correlate with bilingually there... it might be very different than how many bilingual Americans are recent immigrants, and thus at a disadvantage due to poverty in addition to whatever language barrier exists.

    2. Re:California Public Schools by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My wife is Hispanic. She grew up in a bilingual home in Chile.

      At one time she held the highest score ever recorded in South America in the Oxford English Competency Exam. After graduating from college at age 17 in Chile she was awarded a 4 year scholarship to study in Europe where she picked up 5 other languages.

      She was then awarded a Fullbright scholarship to come to the US where she obtained a PhD in Medieval English Lit.

      If there is a performance problem with Hispanic kids it's due to poverty, racism and the the horrific US education system which has no concept of how to teach even monolingual students.

  6. How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2

    Actually, I can speak, read and write in 7 languages

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by grcumb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed, I would like to get hands on a wide reaching comparative study involving more languages than two. My guess is that finding people speaking more than 2 languages are not common... and you sir are a real exception.

      Depends on what part of the world you're from. Papua New Guinea has over 1000 living spoken languages, the Solomon Islands has hundreds. Even Vanuatu, where I live, has over 100 spoken languages. It's perfectly commonplace for a child to be fluent in either English or French (depending on which school they attend), both of their parents' native tongues, and Bislama, the lingua franca here. In the course of any given day, I find myself speaking English and Bislama at the office, French with people of French extraction, and sharing greetings and pleasantries in about fifteen (yes: 15) other languages.

      Nobody blinks an eye, except for those who observe that a lot of unilingual expats never learn even one other language. I suspect the difference is that I grew up in a mixed English/French-speaking community, and picked up my first 'second' language at a very early age.

      I expect that people's facility with multiple languages is what leads to Bislama - a variety of pidgin English - being used so inventively, in spite of being particularly impoverished in terms of grammar and vocabulary.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    2. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by grcumb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Should I ever visit your country, do you have any recommendation for a good feel of the back country?

      Here's a primer on how to behave (and what kind of behaviour to expect) in Vanuatu. And these people have the best tour packages I've seen. Feel free to look me up. It's a small place and we all like to welcome visitors.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    3. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, I can speak, read and write in 7 languages

      And with all that creative power at your disposal, the nickname you chose was Taco Cowboy?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    4. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by papafox_too · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Places like Africa, India, and Papua New Guinea have a lot of spoken languages, but there is _ONE_ big problem - that's all they have, spoken words, no written word, no way to jot down what they say on paper, et cetera

      Total, utter poppycock.

      How can you educate children using a second language? Educators found generations ago that teaching in a language other than the child's first language simply does not work for young children. So, to teach the child, books and other material written in their native language, which requires a written form - an orthography - has to have been developed.

      Here in Australia, two generations of linguist graduate students (from the 1950's onwards) were employed creating written forms of the various Aboriginal languages. They recorded words (dictionaries) and grammar. They wrote down the local tribes children's stories. They translated the standard primary school texts into the local language. All of this is essential to run a primary-level education system. Similar programs have run in PNG, Canada, Central America and Africa over the last fifty years.

    5. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2

      How can you educate children using a second language?

       
      Huh?? Ever since I was a tiny baby people around me were speaking 4 different languages

      I guess I picked up all those 4 languages "naturally"
       
       

      Educators found generations ago that teaching in a language other than the child's first language simply does not work for young children.

       
      [Citation Please !!]
       
      And as I grew up, I started by learning how to read and write the 4 languages that I spoke, and in adulthood, I picked up yet another 3
       
      To me, picking up languages come naturally - it doesn't mean I am the language expert in all the 7 languages that I can speak, read, and write
       
      I picked up the English language in my teens, btw
       

      --
      Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    6. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by ld+a,b · · Score: 2

      It may be more the fact that her parents were switching randomly, than the number itself. We can have many neuronal paths in parallel but they are organized by context. switch(p){case MOM: l = Japanese; break; case DAD: l = Korean; break; case TEACHER: l = English; break;} is more optimal than if p=(p==MOM)?(p->l==Japanese)?Japanese:Korean:(p==DAD)(p->l==Korean)?Korean:English;.....

      --
      10 little-endian boys went out to dine, a big-endian carp ate one, and then there were -246.
    7. Re:How about tri-ligual, quad-ligual ? by GNious · · Score: 2

      Kids of multilingual parents are adversely affected, if the parents do not stick to a single language when communicating with their children.

      Example: I'm effectively bilingual (DK, EN_UK), and made the mistake of using two language with my kids (EE and DK). The children's mother is Estonian, so the outcome is that the kids are crap at Danish, are not good enough at Estonian.
      Meanwhile, the big girl is learning English from me and her mother use of it when we talk - this is becoming an additional language for her, through natural processes.

      So, if you have children, and speak more than 1 language, make sure you choose just 1 to use with your kids directly. You can choose different language than your partner, and you can use a 3rd language between the parents.

  7. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by canadiannomad · · Score: 3, Funny

    Je ne sais pas que tipo de confusión ce puede causar.......

    (It's a joke -- don't mod me down for using alternate languages...)

    --
    Hmm, the humour and sarcasm seem to have been be lost on you.
  8. Now, time to shove it down their throats by ebunga · · Score: 2

    Since it's for their own good, time to shove fourteen languages down the their throats in forced mandatory education. Stop concentrating on math and science, start concentrating on languages. Veuillez considérer le bien-être des enfants.

  9. Re:left wing media by epyT-R · · Score: 2

    that doesn't mean learning multiple languages increases intelligence.

  10. Research seems to support you in this by Krishnoid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm sure diversity in doing things instead of single mindedness is nearly always valuable.

    Lera Boroditsky's research has come up with results that challenge some basic assumptions in linguistics. One such finding is that rather than language simply expressing thought processes, it shapes mental models of the world.

  11. Guesswork on my part, but by Penurious+Penguin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Since much of our thinking is actually affected by language, and language structures vary sometimes greatly (e.g. Chinese vs English), integrating an additional language into a mind seems highly likely to expand general mental capacity. Perspective is perhaps an underrated element. I am no linguist, but as I understand, a language such as English suffers a lot of nouns. Since most 'things' are actually not nouns, but motions in space/time, a language centered more around the verb may offer advantages. I find Alfred Korzybski's E-Prime quite intriguing. I think one interesting example might be the Chinese word for "fist" -- which i think in Cantonese is something like (pinyin) quan? -- , a noun in English, but an action or verb in Chinese. Maybe I am going a bit far with this, but it would seem to me that any form of exercise and added pliability would offer more capacity for mental tasks. But of course, not in all matters, i.e. mathematics.

    I remember taking introductory German as a teenager and thinking differently because of it. While it didn't have me asking random strangers for their papers or hording bratwursts, I did feel more capable and confident because of it. Though I suppose this may be true of any substantial exercise, whether linguistic or otherwise.

    --
    Forward! -- Emperor Norton, 2012
  12. Re:no shit sherlock... by grcumb · · Score: 3, Informative

    And the results of this study are a surprise...why? Of course children who have the discipline, tenacity and motivation to learn and switch between two languages are going to be better at most things...language is a multifaceted mental effort, one of the highest degree...if they can learn and master two languages its should be a no-brainer they can do most other things better as well.

    I think you're missing the point. In many, many parts of the world, people learn two or three languages before they even start school. In East Africa, you learn your parents' language and ki-Swahili; in Indonesia and Malaysia, it's parental language(s) plus Bahasa and sometimes Arabic; in the Philippines, it's parental language(s) plus Tagalog plus English. The list goes on. It's simply taken for granted. I don't think the study is saying that learning language makes you smarter per se; it's saying that certain kinds of problems are easier for children who use more than one language on a regular basis.

    If I've read it right, this is on the level of stating that people who grow up in mountainous areas with few vehicles generally show greater leg strength across the board. It's not suggesting that there aren't stronger and weaker children within that sample. I personally know some functionally illiterate people who can speak 4-6 languages fluently. They're not special; they're just a product of the environment they grew up in.

    ... It is disappointing, however, to see how unimaginative unilingual people can sometimes be. Maybe it's perceptual bias on my part, but I feel that I encounter more zero-sum, black/white logic from unilingual people than from multilingual people.

    --
    Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
  13. Whodathunkit? by rmdingler · · Score: 2

    Exercising the brain makes it work better.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  14. Sounds like the liberal media... by bennomatic · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...trying to brainwash us into teaching our kids languages other than American!

    --
    The CB App. What's your 20?
  15. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who the hell thinks this?

    Monolingual zealots (typically of the borderline racist kind). Seriously, YMMV, but the only type of people I've ever seen making this claim are the type not typically happy with people speaking a foreign language around them. I don't understand what they are talking about, so they must be talking about me!!!". It feels like a long time ago, the early 90's when you could still see the bigotry the hatred. It was regular topic in the news, of employers firing their employees because they were talking Spanish or Vietnamese or Creole, or f* Klingon in the parking lot on the way home or during lunch (not on the clock, mind you, not on the clock.)

    Now, the rhetoric has shifted from language to immigration status, and to a somewhat lesser degree to Islamic fundamentalism. The later two are based real issues - illegal immigration and Islamic terrorism. However, a significant number of people who bring these issues up do so to rationalize Anti-Hispanic or Islamophobic sentiments, regardless of their connections (or lack thereof) with illegal immigration or Islamic terrorism.

    It is a generalization, I know, to say these claims are only made by people uncomfortable with foreign-language speakers. But it has been a generalization that holds true in my experience. YMMV obviously.

  16. Californinglish by kerneloops · · Score: 2

    I have two tri-lingual kids, with Chinese and Finnish spoken at home, and 'Mmerican English at school. I think the American school system is negating any advantage they may have had. I kid people! It's the Californinglish that's destroying their chances :)

  17. It's partly true by Solandri · · Score: 2

    Same with typing. If you take qwerty typists and teach them Dvorak, their qwerty typing speed decreases a bit.

    But yeah, I'm bilingual, semi-trilingual as well, and the confusion is very minor. Most of the time you can "switch gears" between the languages without problem (cross-language homophones and the occasional grammatical equivalent can cause a little confusion). But the benefits (allows you to see things missing in the language which mono-linguists take for granted, forces you to recognize there's more than one way to think about things) far outweigh the drawbacks.

  18. Native language feedback by bidule · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seeing how the "same" word translate differently in another language helps to fix in your mind the differences between:
    - capitol / capital
    - principle / principal
    - affect / effect
    - its et al
    - theirs et al

    I could go on, but these silly mistakes mostly happen to speakers ignorant of their own native language. Bilingualism kills that ignorance.

    --
    ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
  19. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by dj245 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Who the hell thinks this?

    Monolingual zealots (typically of the borderline racist kind). Seriously, YMMV, but the only type of people I've ever seen making this claim are the type not typically happy with people speaking a foreign language around them. I don't understand what they are talking about, so they must be talking about me!!!". It feels like a long time ago, the early 90's when you could still see the bigotry the hatred. It was regular topic in the news, of employers firing their employees because they were talking Spanish or Vietnamese or Creole, or f* Klingon in the parking lot on the way home or during lunch (not on the clock, mind you, not on the clock.)

    Now, the rhetoric has shifted from language to immigration status, and to a somewhat lesser degree to Islamic fundamentalism. The later two are based real issues - illegal immigration and Islamic terrorism. However, a significant number of people who bring these issues up do so to rationalize Anti-Hispanic or Islamophobic sentiments, regardless of their connections (or lack thereof) with illegal immigration or Islamic terrorism.

    It is a generalization, I know, to say these claims are only made by people uncomfortable with foreign-language speakers. But it has been a generalization that holds true in my experience. YMMV obviously.

    I don't think you need to be any kind of zealot to think that multiple languages confuses a child. My wife's first language is not English. Many of her immigrant friends have children who are learning to speak English and another language. They are slower at first. Sometimes they are confused about who speaks what language. Many times one of their children has come up to me and started babbling in a language I don't understand. Since small children are basically psychopaths (don't know right from wrong) they can't tell who understands or not. Over the long term they catch up, but if you were trying bilingual children without *needing* to, or if both parents spoke only one language, it would be pretty easy to just say "it confuses the children" and give up. My own son is only 4 months so he isn't saying much of anything, but based on the experience of our friends, he will be a little slower than his single-language peers at first.

    There is a pretty good argument in the US that you don't need more than one language. I can get in my car, drive 12 hours, stop for the night, drive for 12 hours the next day, stop for the night again and drive for 12 hours on a third day. I live in the middle of the country, but a 36 hour drive would only put me in California somewhere. The US is VAST and monolingual. There are English "dialects" but you can generally understand people without any problem. I know of no other country on the planet where this is the case except the US. If I lived as an expat (I'm trying to do this, but my company won't cooperate) I would try to learn the local language, but for now it would be a huge time sink for no reward.

    --
    Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
  20. Re:no shit sherlock... by sulimma · · Score: 2

    The study is about kids who grow up in housholds where the parents speak different languages.

    Not about kids who are taught a second language on purpose by a teacher. No discipline involved.

  21. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by mce · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Writing as a Belgian and thus intimately familiar with language wars: Over here the people who argue against multilingual education are indeed most often the "monolingual zealot (typically of the borderline racist kind)" type. Since they don't want to be labeled as such, they will typically use the "it confuses the child" argument, ideally using a young child that uses two languages in a single sentence as evidence (as if uni-lingual young children never make grammar mistakes). The "it's confusing" claim has the additional benefit that it can be used to convince non-racists who don't know any better. Never mind that the whole argument has been scientifically disproved a ton of times. Never mind even that every single multilingual child/adult walking the place is a perfect example that no harm was done. (Well, of course from the point of view of the zealots, harm was done. But I refuse make them my to reference point.)

  22. Re:Some people think bilingualism causes confusion by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 2

    I don't think you need to be any kind of zealot to think that multiple languages confuses a child. My wife's first language is not English. Many of her immigrant friends have children who are learning to speak English and another language. They are slower at first.

    Slower with respect to what? With what objective measure????? My daughter speaks English and Japanese (from her Mother) and understand Spanish (my language) when I talk to her, and can count in all three languages. She is only 3 and a half years old. I don't see any confusion or delay in her progress (and neither 3rd party observers, including my sister who is a speech therapist and whom I asked her to evaluate her just in case.)

    My nephew speaks English and Spanish from a very early age. He simply picked it up, and he's been on and off in learning Arabic (his father's language). My other nephew only spoke English, but once he was taken on a trip to our country of origin for a few weeks, he was speaking Spanish, reading it completely shortly thereafter. I would say that immigrant children of low-income families are as slow as mono-lingual children of equally disposesed (sp?) families. And with immigrant families in general (and Hispanic in particular), the income/education gap is true. But language or the presence of multiple languages, that is a factor. At the most, you might be seeing correlation (which we all know does not imply causation.)

    Sometimes they are confused about who speaks what language. Many times one of their children has come up to me and started babbling in a language I don't understand.

    But that's not confusion from children. They are simply talking naturally. They are not confused on what they are saying, and they not know that you don't know their language is not a symptom of a learning or cognitive deficiency. My daughter babbles to me in Japanese a lot of times, and I need my wife to translate. But for the most part she speaks to me in English and in Japanese to her mother. At no point in time my daugther is confused or having a cognitive problem in expressing herself when she speaks Japanese to me. You are confusing issues here

    Since small children are basically psychopaths (don't know right from wrong) they can't tell who understands or not.

    No, they are not psychopaths. They have still underdeveloped cognitive skills. Two different things. Poor choice of terms for building an allegory.

    Talking to you in a language that you do not understand is not a wrong, just as it is not a wrong for them to not know, for example, that something still exists even when it is no longer in their view (remember kids crying when they don't see mommy, because they think mommy doesn't exist anymore?)

    Over the long term they catch up

    Yep, in about a year or two at the most.

    but if you were trying bilingual children without *needing* to

    Who in his right mind nowadays can say that they children do not need to be bilingual, or at least have a minimum working knowledge of a 2nd language should they ever aspire to something?

    or if both parents spoke only one language, it would be pretty easy to just say "it confuses the children" and give up.

    Herein lies the gist of it, it is people who (in your own words), just say "it confuses the children", and give up. People who are more prone to give up on that will also give up on other topics they do not understand (math for example.). But it has nothing to do with a 2nd language confusing people (or parents). Some parents are just lazy, and others are simply rightfully overwhelmed (it is not easy being a parent, I KNOW.) But this argument has nothing to do with "children confusion."

    My own son is only 4 months so he isn't saying much of anything, but based on the experience of our friends, he will be a little s

  23. Mental Integration by hoboroadie · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm one of the ignorant monolingual types so typical of the U.S.A. When I studied Francais at school, I noticed that I did some thinking in the language, and felt that it was speeding up my thought processes, much like a multi-threaded CPU. I thought if one could grok the subtle differences between word translations it could increase intuitive understanding of reality.
    Is Dr. Lauchlan the first one to actually look into this?

    --
    They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  24. It's pretty common by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 2

    Dutch are taught Dutch, French, German and English before graduating school. Norwegians learn Bokmaal, NyNorsk, English and an elective language, then they generally also understand Swedish and Danish nearly fluently. Swedes learn Swedish, English and usually a third as Danish learn Danish, English and a third. Both Swedes and Danes normally understand Bokmaal Norwegian. Fins learn Suomi, Swedish, English and often a fourth. I only mentioned a small percentage of the world, they're only about 50 million people altogether, but that's about 1% of the world's population.

    That sounds pretty common. I'm am American and I can speak 2 languages fluently, a third not-so-fluently, can communicate in 5 other languages (order food, ask directions, etc...) and can read a total of 14 languages without much effort. I suck at language too... my hearing problems make it impossible for me to learn new sounds, but once you learn a few, the others aren't so hard (within the same families).

    My kids... they learn new languages like it's just natural. That's because on a daily basis, they can be watching cartoons or playing video games in 4 different languages and then we watch educational videos on learning new languages together. I am really hoping I can get one of them to learn Mandarin at some point.