The Extremes of Internet Gaming In South Korea

Rick Zeman writes "CNN has an expose showing that in South Korea, the world's most wired country, Internet gaming breeds two extremes: elite 'athletes' who earn fame and six figures, and addicts who literally play until they die and tells the stories of players on both sides of that real-life divide. From the article: 'The first thing you notice about the professional video game players are their fingers — spindly creatures that seem to flail about at their own will, banging at the computer keyboard with such frequency and ferocity that to visit their live-in training centers in South Korea is to be treated to a maddening drum roll of clicks and clacks.'"

Comments

Typical of their culture

[buk110]

"To impress his father, he wanted to be the world's best." Swap out gaming with piano and would the media be so concerned?

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, and how many pianists out of all those who dedicate themselves make 6 figure incomes.

Wanting your child to be the best, or for your child to want to make their parents proud is only a natural need for a parent/child relationship.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Bad analogy. The piano is an instrument that has been around for centuries and one that you can measure yourself by players of past/future generations, we are talking about being the best at manipulating a computer program that won't be around in five years.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Become a world class pianist and you can still be one when you're 60.

Learn StarCraft as a teen, and you won't be doing that when you're 60.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Baloroth]

Bad analogy. The piano is an instrument that has been around for centuries and one that you can measure yourself by players of past/future generations, we are talking about being the best at manipulating a computer program that won't be around in five years.

The piano has only been around for centuries because someone started mastering it when it hadn't been around for centuries.

Re:Typical of their culture

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I'm guessing that, at very least, the pianist would get a more... pleasant... description of his likely-equally-active freakish horror fingers.

"The first thing you notice about the professional video game players are their fingers -- spindly creatures that seem to flail about at their own will, banging at the computer keyboard with such frequency and ferocity that to visit their live-in training centers in South Korea is to be treated to a maddening drum roll of clicks and clacks."

Seriously guys? Are you going to mention their horrid, bulbous, glassy eyes, or their vile inhuman mandibles next?

Re:Typical of their culture

[Kimomaru]

Well, to be fair, if the first StarCraft was any indication StarCraft 2 should be around for 20 years. Still . . . . yeah, you're right.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Alioth]

Starcraft 1 (Brood War) has already been around for almost 15 years, and is still played professionally in South Korea.

Re:Typical of their culture

[circletimessquare]

no, the underarm B.O.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

At least with the piano others can enjoy the music. I don't see too many people paying to sit around a gamer. I wonder if these players get any enjoyment from the game itself.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Swap out gaming with piano and would the media be so concerned?

Or football player, or gymnast, or investment banker, or ...

Re:Typical of their culture

[RogueyWon]

Well... up to a point.

There are skills involved in competitive Starcraft play that will be transferable to other games. If you were a world-class Starcraft player at the point when Starcraft 2 was released and you decided to move to the new platform, then you'd be at a pretty big advantage compared to somebody like me, who played Starcraft for a few months at release, for the campaign and a bit of LAN multiplayer then moved onto other things.

I've known a few people over the years who have gotten deeply into the hardcore competitive gaming scene (though I've never had the talent, time or inclination to go that way myself). They are an incredibly conservative bunch of people when it comes to their games. These are not people who will pick up the latest releases and mess around with them for fun. They have their game, they play it, and they do not want it to change. They might speculate about when the sequel is coming out, but unless it's nothing more than a direct graphical uplift of the original, then it's highly possible that they'll angrily reject a sequel when it does appear.

I remember when Quake 3 appeared. Here was a game that had been designed by id for - and with the co-operation of - players from the hardcore QuakeWorld and Quake 2 scenes. And yet I also remember that, at release, most of the hardcore community from those games refused to make the transition for as long as possible (or in some cases, ever). I've always got the feeling that id were a bit bruised by Quake 3's reception - certainly, it was the last time they put multiplayer at the heart of their game design.

Why the ultra-conservatism? In part, it's driven by ego and a desire to protect their position. These people are among a tiny elite in a game and their self-esteem and (if they've gone professional) their income depends on remaining part of that scene. Change - particularly transition to a new game - represents a risk to that. What if they fall behind the curve?

But there's also a broader point, which gets to the difference between professional video gaming and more traditional games and sports. Now, some sports do evolve over time - but they do so slowly. In some extreme cases such as Chess and Go, while the tactics people use at the top levels have evolved, the rules of the games themselves have been constant for centuries. Video games, on the other hand, are a fast evolving medium. Technological advances don't just mean better graphics - they make it practical to realise entirely new types of game. And at the same time, games are developed to make a profit, so they will evolve to chase whatever the marketing men believe is the new big-selling trend (currently modern military shooters with objective-based competitive multiplayer).

I suspect that what will happen in the end is that a couple of defined "standard" professional-level video games will emerge, with largely fixed game mechanics. Quite plausibly, this will mean one core RTS, one core FPS and one core MOBA. These will receive occasional graphical uplifts to reflect technological advances, but gameplay mechanics, balance etc will become much more locked than they are now. So if, hypothetically, Starcraft should become that RTS "standard", the hitpoints of a Zergling would basically become set more or less in stone, perhaps being reviewed in 20 years time. Meanwhile, "normal" commercial games development will separate further away from these games, continuing more or less as it is at the moment. So Blizzard might put out Starcrafts 3, 4 and 5, with new storyline, units and balance changes, but with no expectation of these becoming the new hardcore professional standard.

Is any of the above an argument that there is any worth in becoming a professional gamer, other than the money you can make from it during the fairly brief window where you can stay at the top? Absolutely not. But then, I'd say that the same goes for professional sports.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Githaron]

Blizzard should really consider a remake.

Re:Typical of their culture

[CowTipperGore]

Want to talk about some crazy fingers, watch a banjo player. Bela Fleck is considered one of the world's premier banjo players, spanning genres as diverse as traditional bluegrass, jazz, classical, and pop. As a kid, he practiced 8+ hours a day, every day. He attended New York City's High School of Music and Art. FFS, his parents named him Béla Anton Leo Fleck, after composers Béla Bartók, Anton Dvorak, and Leo Janáek.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Owe can swap out gaming for any physcial sport and look at injuries from too much training

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

There's actually a lot of study going into RTS games like starcraft right now and whether or not it trains a person to be a better multitasker, whether or not it builds general skills like being able to count a large number of objects on a screen in less than a second (Most people fail for numbers > 7) and a number of other general skills that make a player better at these kinds of games.

Not surprisingly, the best SC2 players right now were SC Brood War and Warcraft 3 players. While yes, SC2 will have a very limited shelf life compared to something like becoming a concert pianist, it is not a fair comparison. Nobody is replacing the piano with piano 2. The piano does not rely on updated presentation or a need to benefit from new technology. There will be more RTS games that will eventually replace SC2 as it becomes more dated and the players who commited themselves to that game with have a transferable skill set.

Besides, Usain Bolt will not be running in his thirties, NBA players do not play into their forties. After they cannot maintain their actions per second and fall behind they have a much more transferable skill set than any other athlete does.

Re:Typical of their culture

[ackthpt]

Exactly, and how many pianists out of all those who dedicate themselves make 6 figure incomes.

Wanting your child to be the best, or for your child to want to make their parents proud is only a natural need for a parent/child relationship.

To honor your parents (and ancestors) is a rather deep rooted thing in East and South Asian cultures. Parents need to define what is and isn't honoring - being a slave to online gaming is hardly something to aspire to.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Nadaka]

We don't really know that for certain yet. The original starcraft doesn't have the same DRM restrictions infecting modern games. It is entirely possible the original starcraft will be around in 50 more years even if the drm laden later blizzard titles crumble to dust.

Re:Typical of their culture

[pla]

I don't see too many people paying to sit around a gamer.

So, didn't bother to read TFA, eh?

In South Korea, these games mean BIG money. High-end corporate sponsorships, huge live audiences, nationally televised competitions... Every bit as serious (take that as a positive or negative, as you wish) as professional athletes in the US - Who also won't keep playing into their 60s, as another poster pointed out.

And y'know, if I could make over 100k a year playing video games - I'd drop my 9-to-5 in a frickin' heartbeat. "Meaningful" work? Hey, if you think getting accounting system A to talk to POS system B has any deeply satisfying "meaning" to it after 20 years, I have a few seats left I can sell you, to watch the paint dry on my patio.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, and how many pianists out of all those who dedicate themselves make 6 figure incomes.

Probably a few orders of magnitude more than the number of Starcraft players making 6 figure incomes.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Become a world class pianist and you can still be one when you're 60.

Learn StarCraft as a teen, and you won't be doing that when you're 60.

Sure, the analogy halts a bit. The career path we have seen for professional gamers (Or e-sport players.) so far is a lot closer to that of traditional sport players.
When they get old and too slow to play they either go into another field or jump into coaching or commentating.
Apart from the regular sponsorship some of the pro-gamers also make appearances in commercials, mostly for computer peripherals.

Learn football as a teen, and you won't be doing that when you're 60.

You might argue that StarCraft won't be played in 40 years but these gamers have already been able to transfer their skill from one game to another. As long as there is a new game in the same genre the top players will be able to continue.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Piano was mastered as a harpsichord before it was invented. There were probably simpler key-based plinkers or harp mechanics prior to that.

Somebody didn't just say one day, let's tip a harp on its side and whack it with lil' hammers like a xylophone.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Have a look at the crowd paying to watch people play StarCraft II at DreamHack Winter 2011 (Jump 1 minute in if you don't want to watch the game.)

For an event in the U.S. you can take a look at the MLG crowd.

None of them are as large as the Korean Air OSL Finals

Show me one piano concert with an audience at even half that size.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Shinobi]

Actually, the money involved isn't that big in Korea.... Overall, the "foreign" scene in SC2 has more money involved, which is why so many SC2 pros have resisted KESPA style rules that would prevent them from going abroad.

Some NA and Euro tournaments have prize sums for qualifiers, or 3rd spot in a main tournament, that compare to 1st place in GSL, Korea's premier SC2 league. Hell, Dreamhack Valencia, which is just a small in-between tournament/qualifier for Dreamhack Winter, has a 1st place prize equal to GSL, and the 2nd place is better than GSL's

Re:Typical of their culture

[betterunixthanunix]

Neither did anyone come along one day and say, "Hey, it would be awesome if we could have a game with three alien species that are nearly evenly matched, where the players command the species in epic battles." Starcraft was based on Warcraft; Warcraft was inspired by earlier RTS games, and those games were inspired by Chess and by RPGs, etc.

Chess, Go, and Poker have world championships as well; why should those games receive more respect than Starcraft?

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anne_Nonymous]

Hell, most of them make 10 finger incomes.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

It depends on how you define "dedicate". If you are playing for a major orchestra, you are dedicated and probably making that salary. If you are dedicated and not making that salary, then you're probably just out of college chasing your dream of being in the orchestra. That doesn't last long without either giving up or getting the gig. The level of practice necessary makes it difficult to hold down a full time job, so you either don't work or don't practice.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd mention the pressure sores on their butts too from the endless sitting

Re:Typical of their culture

[ciderbrew]

No they'd only fuck it up with some stupid DRM.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

What a dope. The piano is a lot more noble than gambling as a hobby(keyword hobby for the slash dumb). Yes, you can have a "real" job and still master the piano, maybe not the small minds on here but you can. Hell, even if someone wanted to make a living off of it, they would have more respect than a dirty gambler.

You would think some dolt who proclaims to be a news for nerds, nerd would know how probability works and that gambling is really a losers game. Sure you can see those idiots on TV wearing their cowboy hats and dark glasses, they are the very small exceptions and really total shit heads. I know your third grade teacher told you we are all equal even dirty gamblers, prostitutes and even liberals but its just not true. Some professions are far superior.

Sometimes I wonder where slash dot is going compared to its glory days. Just take a look at how some urban legend about NASA made its way on the site. Eeek what crap.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of audience would keep playing the same "set in stone" game mechanics for decades to keep it profitable? You can't support a major online game with just a handful of fanatics.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Pianos are an established design owned by no one. Games like this are the sole product of a company than can switch them off or change them at will.

Re:Typical of their culture

[neonKow]

Exactly, and how many pianists out of all those who dedicate themselves make 6 figure incomes.

Wanting your child to be the best, or for your child to want to make their parents proud is only a natural need for a parent/child relationship.

To honor your parents (and ancestors) is a rather deep rooted thing in East and South Asian cultures. Parents need to define what is and isn't honoring - being a slave to online gaming is hardly something to aspire to.

Bold claim. What's your reasoning?

Re:Typical of their culture

[tnk1]

And y'know, if I could make over 100k a year playing video games - I'd drop my 9-to-5 in a frickin' heartbeat. "Meaningful" work? Hey, if you think getting accounting system A to talk to POS system B has any deeply satisfying "meaning" to it after 20 years, I have a few seats left I can sell you, to watch the paint dry on my patio.

As fun as that might be, you won't want to do that unless you are talking enough money to set you up for retirement as well. "Normal" careers that pay over 100K are not that few and far between for people with computer skills, and you can work those into your 60's. Now if these gamers were making a million or something a year, then yeah, that would be awesome. You'd be able to retire on what you made without having to ever get another job, or you could be satisfied with a lower-paying, but much more satisfying job.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Shinobi]

In regards to Dreamhack Winter, that's only a partial crowd, the one in the main stage hall, there are other halls rooms where it's shown too, on huge screens.

Re:Typical of their culture

[neonKow]

Bad analogy. The piano is an instrument that has been around for centuries and one that you can measure yourself by players of past/future generations, we are talking about being the best at manipulating a computer program that won't be around in five years.

This is a blizzard game. They have ridiculously long (for computer games) playable lifespans, and have basically single-handedly established professional (rather than just competitive) RTS gaming as a viable full-time profession. Blizzard RTS's only start dying out when they get replaced by the next Blizzard RTS with similar mechanics, and many who are successful at StarCraft II were also very good at its predecessors StarCraft:Brood Wars and WarCraft III.

Re:Typical of their culture

[neonKow]

You can't swim or play basketball competitively and get paid enough to last your entire life, but that doesn't mean that people don't still take those as their career early on and still end up doing quite well and being happy after it ends. And most professional sports players are super-stars in the majors getting paid millions.

You can't live your entire life only thinking about what happens after you job ends.

Re:Typical of their culture

[spire3661]

But being a slave to athletics is ok?

Re:Typical of their culture

[Greyfox]

Everyone a slave to some game. You a slave, too.

Re:Typical of their culture

[GodfatherofSoul]

Sounds like you're getting tired of me pwning your noob ass in Battlefield 3. Don't worry, I'll start using lube next round.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

In regards to Dreamhack Winter, that's only a partial crowd, the one in the main stage hall, there are other halls rooms where it's shown too, on huge screens.

All of them are partial crowds. The majority of the Dreamhack and MLG viewers watches the streamed video from home. The Korean tournaments are aired on TV. (One of the later Dreamhack finals was aired in Sweden too.)

Re:Typical of their culture

[RogueyWon]

Doesn't need to be kept profitable at this point, any more than chess has to be "kept profitable". Once the game is out there and people own their copies, there's not really much more expense needed to maintain it. If players can host their own matches and it has a server-browser, that's all it needs. The developer could release graphical updates, certainly, but these would be more along the lines of a company selling a fancy, pretty chess-set (which plenty of companies do).

Re:Typical of their culture

[CFTM]

This is a blizzard game. They have ridiculously long (for computer games) playable lifespans

You obviously have not played Diablo 3...

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Bold claim. What's your reasoning?

I see what you did there!

Re:Typical of their culture

[DreadPiratePizz]

The difference is that if you are a player in say, the NFL, you will make a ton of money, and after 8-12 years retire and draw a pension from the NFL. Bench warmers make 150K+ a year, so if you're even halfway decent you will be making good money.

But in E-Sports, the 150K figure is for the very best. The very best are making less than a bench warmer in the NFL. Being the very best means practicing in your team house for 10-12 hours per day. Many top Starcraft players have needed surgery for RSI injuries.So even if you're the best in the world, you're going to get 10 years at best. You think 150K a year is a lot, but after your career is over what do you do? What skills do you have? All you can do is play a video game. You're hostage to it. Former top players have gone on to become coaches, and this is the only real progression left. If you are near the middle or bottom of the pack, your situation is even worse since you have less money.

This is not a long term career like traditional professional sports is.

Re:Typical of their culture

[neonKow]

It's never the single player. D3 is going to last longer than D2 if they know how to milk it thanks to the built-in marketplace and economy.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

"To impress his father, he wanted to be the world's best."

Swap out gaming with piano and would the media be so concerned?

A piano is tool that can connect with the human soul where words cannot. When people hear a moving piano piece they can be moved to tears. Comparing a musical instrument to a video game is arguing for the sake of arguing.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed.

I mean if you look at professional Starcraft. The last OGN Starleague match for SC1 ever was played just a week ago, 14 years after Starcraft 1's release date.

The only reason they're scrapping Starcraft 1 competitions is so the progamers can focus more on Starcraft 2. I imagine Starcraft 2 will continue until Starcraft 3 may or may not come out.

And as mentioned by the parent, skills are transferrable. Most professional SC2 players were professional, or semi-professional SC1 players.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Durr! Because being a slave is, by definition, bad.

Re:Typical of their culture

[BigSes]

I don't recall any of your /. posts, but I love this one. I'm setting you to fan immediately. More to my point, people from the Quake generation, as I was from the Doom generation, always talk about their prowess at gaming....but they always seem to leave out modern titles. I would agree with you 100% that MW3, MW2 or CoD games ARENT the same as Quake, as they arent the same as Doom, but why havent gamers in our generation evolved (I know that answer actually: job, kids, wife, bills)? We always talk about our own accomplishments and never appreciate what others have done. StarCraft 2 might be this guy's Doom 2. There is something totally satisfying about dominating a game against others. I used to win LAN matches on our old PS/2 token-ring network in high school (where people who knew and played Doom religously) where I was in the 100s in frags and the others were in negatives.

Now, we get to modern gaming, and everyone bitches about the "tea-bagging" Halo tweens, as if snotty brats ruined gaming. We were snotty brats too, we just didnt have voice chat! LOL! I had a guy call me a hacker piece of shit for beating him 5 times in a row on Virtua Fighter 5 on PS3 the other day. I never knew a hack to any fighting game, EVER, that pressed buttons for you. I seriously had to block him from my PSN account because the messages kept coming. There are always haters to success, always, no matter your occupation or talent. I get frustrated when I play MW2, MW3, Battlefield 3, because my skills just arent there anymore, but I dont dedicate my time to one game. I can usually hit middle of the pack on end rankings. These kids have what we used to have, love and moxy to put yourself into something that gives you joy, completely. Sometimes it so happens that in the nerd world, maybe you arent good at anything else. I really think these guys are amazing, and most importantly, they are truly doing something they love. Its not for the money, its for the emotional reward. Technology was always so cool to me, and I grew up poor with a single mother who worked two jobs, I know how gaming can fill a void in your life. Some people are just a no go for sports, acting, modeling, what have you....its better to be known for something than nothing. I'd rather be have the highest score at anything than die unknown making $45k a year at some mindless job. These guys are young yet, I think we should celebrate what they can do because we never had the chance to do so with such monetary compensation, and I'm positive there are more than a handful of people on /. who would have been unbeatable in their day at their game of choice. Kudos to these guys, and I honestly do hope their love of gaming brings them success, not ridicule as it used to be!

Lots of professional athletes die because of their profession, they push their bodies too hard. Drug addicts are trying to fill a void in their lives and push their bodies too hard as well. If you are so dedicated to one thing, anything, and it costs you your life, sometime people just wouldnt mind going out that way. I remain impressed, and I think we all should be as well. I'd rather almost reach Mt. Everest and die climbing at 32, if I loved climbing, than die at 70 after 50 years of rewardless drudgery in a cubicle. Everyone, think about it.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Harvey Manfrenjenson]

"To impress his father, he wanted to be the world's best."

Swap out gaming with piano and would the media be so concerned?

Funny you should ask.

I've known a few South Koreans socially, and many of them had a very odd relationship with music. They had achieved great technical proficiency at an early age and they had had the stereotypical "dragon lady" mothers who forced them to practice and to take part in high-pressure competitive events. Here's how technically-obsessed their training had been: one of them commented that she "would have been laughed at" if she had played a Mozart piano sonata in public, since these works were considered insufficiently challenging and were thought of as pieces "for children".

The funny part is, most of them were simply indifferent to playing music as adults. They liked listening to music but got no particular enjoyment out of playing it. In one particular case, sitting down at a piano evoked nausea and panic attacks.

That being said... I've also known a couple of South Koreans who were quite happily and successfully employed as professional musicians. I don't know whether those folks were subjected to similar training regimens or not... I never asked.

Re:Typical of their culture

[CountBrass]

First, they play SC, they are not athletes.

Second, retired professional athletes like Bolt will have made a lot of money and will be able to retire. Even if they hadn't they would make money from endorsements, they could become coaches etc.

Who the hell would be stupid enough to want a celebrity endorsement from some wide-as-he-is-tall SC addict who can't find the time to wash? Who would pay (or be able to stand being in the same room as) such a person?

Re:Typical of their culture

[CountBrass]

Four big differences between SC and SC2:

1. DRM. You won't be able to play SC when Blizz goes bust.
2. You can't be banned from playing SC.
3. SC has LAN play.
4. SC was innovative, SC2 is just SC with a pretty face.

SC will still be played when SC2 is dead and forgotten.

Re:Typical of their culture

[taylorius]

Definitely some truth in what you're saying, though we should remember high level piano isn't actually supposed to be competitive (though you'd be forgiven for thinking otherwise, when looking at the grandstand pieces being played all the time).

When it comes to freakish fingers though, I'm afraid Korea's gamers have a way to go before they can compete. See Yuja Wang here as an example (no, it's not sped up). :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8alxBofd_eQ

Re:Typical of their culture

[j-beda]

The difference is that if you are a player in say, the NFL, you will make a ton of money, and after 8-12 years retire and draw a pension from the NFL. Bench warmers make 150K+ a year, so if you're even halfway decent you will be making good money.

What fraction of high school football players go on to play in college? What fraction of those get into the NFL? What fraction of those manage to last the years necessary to draw a decent pension? A $14,500 average pension rate doesn't seem very viable to me.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_pension_for_an_NFL_player

Similar figures exist for baseball, basketball, and hockey - though I think hockey and baseball have more developed minor league systems to make it possible to earn a (perhaps marginal) living while not being in the major leagues.

Re:Typical of their culture

[Anonymous Coward]

Give StarCraft another 60 years, and then we'll see if it's true or not. SlayersBoxer won the GSL multiple times and now, he's a coach on the Slayers team rather than playing competitively. He's also in his 30s now. Maybe it's possible to play for a career.

Re:Typical of their culture

[hazah]

Strawman much?

Re:Typical of their culture

[omfglearntoplay]

I love your response and especially the "vile inhuman mandibles" bit. Really, they enjoy painting a pro gamer as some crack addicted monster somehow tainted and morphed by all that devilish LCD radiation.

Re:Typical of their culture

[mcvos]

I'm not! I can stop anytime I want.

Re:Typical of their culture

[SillyHamster]

So basically a professional gamer should do a cost-benefit analysis before jumping into it as a career field (hopefully with a good measure of his actual skill).

How is that different than any other profession, really? Main thing to watch out for is that kids might think pro-gaming means "playing games all day", without realizing that "play" isn't the same when it's your full time job and making rent depends on your dedication and performance.

what happens when the games fade?

[Anonymous Coward]

These kids start playing StarCraft when they are 5 or 6 years old, practising 18 hours a day, 7 days a week to be pro players when they are 18. But StarCraft won't last forever. It seems like they're investing their formative years learning a skill that is transient. And, how many of them will be pro players when they are 40? None, I'm going to say, so they still need another career.

Something seems unwise about taking it to this extreme. Nothing wrong with gaming or getting good at games, but anything like this that takes over your life seems bad. Having your life taking over with something like becoming a scientist or learning everything there is to know about repairing internal combustion engines will last you for your whole life, probably. Spending your best learning years learning Starcraft won't.

Re:what happens when the games fade?

[MadKeithV]

Aside from game obsolescence, it's not all that different from competitive sports.

Re:what happens when the games fade?

[Vaphell]

how is that different from majority of sports? Do you think these teen gymnasts you see on TV have any tangible skill on hand once they reach age of 18-20?
Have you ever played hoops or football and wanted to be good at it? Do you earn millions as a sports star now?

Besides starcraft is not as flimsy career path as you think it is. RTS genre shares a lot of common on the metagame level (micro/macromanagement, combat tactics) and the best players can see through that. They can switch to another game and be competent players almost right off the bat, with training they are able to reach top levels of performance.
Once their reflexes detoriate they can move to coaching and train next generation of players and this happens a lot in korean starcraft league. They also can try their hand at casting and use their experience and insight to draw the spectators into the game.
Granted, only the best of the best have shot at the followup career, but it's the same with any other sport discipline where a significant level of physical prowess is required. Once you are too old, you are too old. Either you are famous enough to live off the fame, or you are not and you need real job.

Re:what happens when the games fade?

[Githaron]

I wonder how transient the skills actually are. How much of their training can easily be applied to other RTS games.

Re:what happens when the games fade?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how transient the skills actually are. How much of their training can easily be applied to other RTS games.

Most of the top StarCraft 2 players have either a history as former StarCraft 1: BroodWar players or a history as Warcraft III players. There is a slightly different playstyle depending on what game they played previously but unless you know it you won't really notice it.

Re:what happens when the games fade?

[neminem]

/s/Starcraft/Football/

At least if you get crazy good at Starcraft and the Starcraft bubble dies, you can probably translate some of those skills into Starcraft 2, or some other RTS. At 40, what are you going to do if you spent your whole youthhood as a football star? (Alright, probably retire on your giant piles of cash, but then, you could probably say the same thing about Korean Starcraft stars, too.)

Re:what happens when the games fade?

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, It is trivial for them to use their micro/macromanagement skills to murder in the stockmarket, as they can perform maneuvers HFT algorithms can't even come close to managing.

they do that a few hours a week, and they can get back to their pylons and overlords.

They are true zealots

[Iniamyen]

These gamers want to be immortal. They would rather die gaming than get stuck being a drone with some queen and 2 screaming zerglings to take care of. Their ghosts will live on as overseers of the gaming world. /hydralisk

Re:They are true zealots

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Ya. ePeens.

Re:The truth is plain to see, folks

[Moheeheeko]

First, you must construct additional pylons.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Buckli pri keyboards?

[leandrod]

Once I a people from Singapore or omei ðe like organii to place a big order i Unicomp, manufacturer of IBM’s Model M buckli pri keyboards. Ðe reference to ‘their fingers -- spindly creatures that seem to flail about at their own will, banging at the computer keyboard with such frequency and ferocity that to visit their live-in training centers in South Korea is to be treated to a maddening drum roll of clicks and clacks’ reminded me of Model Ms.

Re:Buckli pri keyboards?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do what now?

star craft 2 dropped lan play to take control

[Anonymous Coward]

star craft 2 dropped lan play to take control of the professional tournaments.

Re:star craft 2 dropped lan play to take control

[Iniamyen]

scandalous!

Re:The truth is plain to see, folks

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/north_south_korea

It's Called Entertainment

[eldavojohn]

Virtuoso violinist practices night and day to perfect their art and everybody applauds their performance at Carnegie Hall. Talented athlete spends night and day on the field, even alters their diet to tune their body for better athletic performance and everyone applauds their super bowl pass.

From a utilitarian standpoint, I don't see a whole lot of different between these entertainers and the entertainers in this story. They are sacrificing everything and taking one risky gamble to do what they love for a little chunk of change that only the 0.01% enjoy. Why does society apply stigmas to people trying to do what they love? If you're going to rip on pro-gamers about job security, get ready to rip on pro-entertainers. Comedian jokes get old much faster than Starcraft I. A professional football players body lasts far shorter than the run of Starcraft I. Music seems to only enjoy popularity for about two weeks considering what you hear on popular radio stations. Hell, Olympic gymnasts are left with hip problems if their career lasts too long. Everything fades, even computer languages. If that's not true of your field, you're in a dead and boring field anyway. Even framing houses has become a different ballgame since I did it as a kid.

Instead of lecturing them about transient skills, you'd be better off pointing off that putting all your eggs in this basket means that their is a very high chance you're going to live the life of the starving artist. There's a small percentage you could rake in massive endorsements and if they do, they should take a page from broke athletes and musicians who squandered that money the instant they got it. Save that money. Save it. Spend money like you're making $50k a year instead of a million a year because that income is fleeting.

People playing themselves to death is no different than that stupid high school athlete shooting up steroids in the locker room. Both are terrible actions that should be criticized but there is a point where you just have to let people do what they want if they truly love what they do.

Having your life taking over with something like becoming a scientist or learning everything there is to know about repairing internal combustion engines will last you for your whole life, probably.

Are you really saying that the useful science today is the same useful science that came out when Starcraft I came out? Everyone has to keep learning to stay relevant. Even entertainers. Or they grow old and become has-beens, the same applies to Starcraft players.

Re:It's Called Entertainment

[DNS-and-BIND]

Violin playing is ageless art. It was here hundreds of years ago and will be alive hundreds of years hence. Playing Starcraft is an already-obsolete computer game. It runs at 640*480 with no support for widescreen monitors. The only reason Starcraft mania even exists is because South Korea is a non-multicultural, uniracial nation - an unforgivable sin in this day and age. When you have these problems, the whole nation can be considered a unified entity with similar interests. The South Koreans have collectively decided that Starcraft is the perfect computer game, and thus a guaranteed audience is there for advertisers to market to. Contrast this to proper multicultural countries that don't even share a common language, much less agree on what constitutes entertainment.

Re:It's Called Entertainment

[Anonymous Coward]

Violin playing is ageless art. It was here hundreds of years ago and will be alive hundreds of years hence. Playing Starcraft is an already-obsolete computer game. It runs at 640*480 with no support for widescreen monitors. The only reason Starcraft mania even exists is because South Korea is a non-multicultural, uniracial nation - an unforgivable sin in this day and age. When you have these problems, the whole nation can be considered a unified entity with similar interests. The South Koreans have collectively decided that Starcraft is the perfect computer game, and thus a guaranteed audience is there for advertisers to market to. Contrast this to proper multicultural countries that don't even share a common language, much less agree on what constitutes entertainment.

LOL!!!! Starcraft will continue to exist as long as violin playing. Do you even speak Korean? I hope so given your authoritative accounts of the country. One man's "proper multicultural country" is another man's "rootless, flash in the frying pan fad country."

Re:It's Called Entertainment

[dcw3]

Having lived there for six years, I do. And while you or I may disagree with his assessment, he's correct about it being "non-multicultural".

Re:It's Called Entertainment

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why does society apply stigmas to people trying to do what they love?
It doesn't. Only to those that produce nothing of LASTING VALUE such as "pro" gamers (sic.) they won't be missed. i.e. In 2212 who the fuck will care who won the Starcraft World Tournament in 2050 aside from sports history buffs.

Teachers are the most IMPORTANT role in ANY civilization yet they constantly get shafted with pay; teachers can influence and inspire entire generations of people. Yet who does the mass populace value? Actors, Athletes, Musicians, etc. who all make MILLIONS more then teachers.

> there is a point where you just have to let people do what they want if they truly love what they do.
That's fine -- the problem with pro-gamers is that they are leeches upon society. What about the programmers and artists who MADE the game that ENABLED the gamer to opportunity to have their lifestyle in the first place?!?! Why do they always get shafted as soon as money enters the equation? Aren't they entitled to some of the earnings?

Re:It's Called Entertainment

[Spy Handler]

South Korea is a non-multicultural, uniracial nation - an unforgivable sin in this day and age.

lol what?

Korean population is homogenous because they didn't import slaves from Africa. This is an unforgivable sin?

Another factor (probably the biggest one) is that East Asian dynasties have been relatively stable through the millenia and wars of conquest have been very few, compared to the Western world. The largest infusion of non-Korean blood into their population came from the Mongol invasion during the Ghengis Khan era. However Koreans are about as different from Mongols genetically as Norwegians are from Swedes (which is to say not very), so whatever bastard children that resulted simply got absorbed into the population.

Woe be the Koreans (and Japanese). They do not have affirmative action, hate crime laws, Rodney King racial riots, or huge police forces patrolling their crime-ridden cities. Unforgivable! What unenlightened barbarians!

Re:It's Called Entertainment

[Anonymous Coward]

You're likely not a game programmer, at least not one worth considering. If the people playing your game go pro, it means your game has really gone big time.

As for "lasting value", I'd say for humans, parents have the best chance of producing lasting value than anything others. It may be futility in the end but as long as humans have children, they can look Extinction in the eye and say "not today".

Most of what we do in this world produces no lasting value. Even a lot of teaching that's done doesn't produce lasting value either.

Of course if you do believe in some religion, then your opinion of who and what produces real "lasting value" is likely to change accordingly.

Re:It's Called Entertainment

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a retard.

Re:It's Called Entertainment

[CountBrass]

England didn't import slaves either -in fact we were the first to oppose the trade. And yet we're rapidly, and with the collusion of successive Governments, turning into a mongrel nation of no culture.

Re:It's Called Entertainment

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no such thing as a "nation of no culture", and there never will or can be.

What you really mean is "a culture I'm not comfortable with", and any claim to the contrary can only be a lie.

Addiction

[Anonymous Coward]

Gaming addiction? "Addictive personality"?! Damnit, this article pissed me off so much I dropped my cigarette in my bourbon and now I can't find my cocaine. I hope they're happy with themselves.

"blah" as atheletes

[John Napkintosh]

I still don't get this. If you want to call what you do a "sport", as in a structure competition or whatever gets to be a sport these days, OK then. But I thought "athlete" still implied some sort of extreme physical activity. Becoming dehydrated or mentally exhausted with a lightning quick mousing hand doesn't exactly qualify in my book.

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[Anonymous Coward]

That would disqualify a lot of Olympic competitors as athletes. It is often implied but for a lot of events, like oh say anything involving a gun and not moving from the same spot, it does not. We should just drop the whole is a gamer an athlete question because it all depends on your preconceived definition of what an athlete is that is not well defined enough to answer this question.

They are talent and competitors, they do something that few others can do, they trained that skill, and people want to watch them do it. That is all that is important.

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[Anonymous Coward]

As per the Oxford English Dictionary:

noun
a person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise.

----

Those Olympians who compete in skill events such as shooting are not athletes, they are Olympians Competitors.

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[Nadaka]

You must not shoot much. Holding a high ready takes strength and endurance, as does controlling recoil while maintaining precision. And depending on the gun, a day at the range can be feel like getting punched in the chest a thousand times.

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[Anonymous Coward]

I have plenty of experience in long rifle shooting and clay pidgeon shooting. I would not in anyway compare the effort to hold a raised gun or the bruises from the recoil of a couple hundred shots from a 12 gauge to the kind of endurance or physical ability one might imply from the term athlete.

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[dcw3]

Oh, you mean to discount things like drag racing, or skeet shooting, or maybe golf?

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[Anonymous Coward]

That doesn't make it an 'extreme physical activity' which is what the OP stated.

Shooting requires strength and endurance, yes, but even fat old guys can shoot for long periods of time if they shoot regularly enough. Contrasted to sprinting, 'regularly enough' by itself will never get you into the 100m sprint.

Table tennis is another example. Are those competitors 'athletes'? If anyone can tell me table tennis is an 'extreme physical activity' with a straight face, I'll buy them a beer.

It's obvious the OP's narrow definition of 'athlete' would exclude a significant chunk of olympic competitors. It's also obvious that he's wrong.

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[Anonymous Coward]

But I thought "athlete" still implied some sort of extreme physical activity.

They average at a couple of hundreds Actions Per Minute for games lasting more than half an hour.
Because of this extreme physical activity some of them aquire injuries like RSI and CTS.
To win large tournaments they have to learn how to regulate their blood sugar levels and remain calm in stressful situations.

You might not think of them as athletes but their coaches, sponsors and audience sure does.

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[phantomfive]

But I thought "athlete" still implied some sort of extreme physical activity.

Then look at this. The things he does with his hands are extreme. They try different things to improve their hand speed, like punching sand, etc. Quick hands aren't something you're born with, it takes a lot of training and stamina. Getting to that level takes a lot of work, and your hands WILL be exhausted.

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[Anonymous Coward]

As per the Oxford English Dictionary:

noun
a person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise.

----

Those Olympians who compete in skill events such as shooting are not athletes, they are Olympians Competitors.

Sounds like that's applying an implication that sports need to be a form of physical exercise, which sort of disqualifies sitting on your ass playing Starcraft all day long (in this case, literally all day long).

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[Princeofcups]

I still don't get this. If you want to call what you do a "sport", as in a structure competition or whatever gets to be a sport these days, OK then. But I thought "athlete" still implied some sort of extreme physical activity. Becoming dehydrated or mentally exhausted with a lightning quick mousing hand doesn't exactly qualify in my book.

Golf, the most notorious of the multi-million dollar non-sports.

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[neonKow]

I'll discount golf as a sport all day long. :D

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[GodfatherofSoul]

There's a distinction between sports with athletes and sports with players. Athlete implies some physical prowess beyond hand-eye coordination and dexterity. That's what I took from the GP and something I agree with. NASCAR was teased years back when they started calling drivers athletes, even though drivers tend to keep themselves in very good shape.

If I start a professional sun flower seed spitting league, I'd be playing a sport but I'd hardly consider myself an athlete.

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[avandesande]

Tiger Woods actually fractured his leg playing golf. Sure, anyone can play golf or soccer for that matter casually, but when you get to the professional level it is completely different.

Re:"blah" as atheletes

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, none of those people are athletes or athletic. Sports, sure, because it's sporting, competitive.

Re:$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

[dyingtolive]

Timecube guy, is that you???

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

All Koreans Have Spinkly Fingers

[Anonymous Coward]

We used to use them to pull out o-rings when the tool wasn't around.

Training Centers

[Zephyn]

"to visit their live-in training centers in South Korea is to be treated to a maddening drum roll of clicks and clacks."

So the secret to successful professional gaming is continually listening to NPR's Car Talk?

Maddening clicks and clacks?

[Sponge Bath]

Let's see them turn their skills to professional level Flower by thatgamecompany. Imagine the soothing chimes and wind noises...

It's also rigged

[Anonymous Coward]

The competitive gaming world is rigged, and there have been several high profile cases of cheating. The people running these competitions can add extra drama and excitement this way, just like we did with our quiz shows in the 50s or whatever.

So it's just a spectacle and not a sport.

Re:It's also rigged

[Entropius]

There have been no more than in other sorts of competition. There was the big match-fixing scandal (see the liquipedia article), and a couple of more minor things more recently that have been punished harshly, but, well, baseball's seen lots of this nonsense, too.

As for evidence that matches are actually rigged (with the winner decided in advance), well -- do you have any evidence that this is widespread? Actually, a good bit of evidence that it's not is that despite many of them trying, very few foreigners have done all that well in the GSL (Korea's premier Starcraft II competition), despite the fact that it would vastly expand their audience. (Whenever a foreigner seems to have a chance in a major tournament lots of folks outside Korea watch and root for them.) There's a lot of profit to be had if you could order the Koreans to throw a few matches to the foreigners to get them to the finals, but nobody has done it.

Re:It's also rigged

[Shinobi]

The Koreans don't WANT a vastly expanded audience... In statements both by KESPA and GOM officials, they want to grow the INTERNAL Korean scene. In fact, that's one of the aspects behind KESPA's creation for Starcraft I.... A nice, homogenous little Korean scene, with the majority of foreign influence in the form of teams kept out. For foreigners to take part, they had to undergo a lot of bueraucracy just to be allowed to take part in the qualifiers.

Motivation

[roman_mir]

Seems to me that these kids need something to do, they are actually into accomplishing something (playing for the higher score I guess), it's just that their motivation is screwed up.

Of-course many people have addictive personalities, if it weren't for the games, they might have been into addictive drugs, but again, they need something to do.

I looked up the labour laws in South Korea, here is something to note

Article 62 (Minimum Age and Employment Permit)

        (1)A person under the age of 15 shall not be employed as a worker. However, this shall not apply to a person with a employment permit issued by the Minister of Labour.
        (2)The employment permit referred to in paragraph (1) may be issued at the request of the person himself only by designating the type of occupation in which he is engaged, provided that such employment will not impede compulsory education.

Article 63 (Prohibition of Employment)

Female wokers and those who are under 18 shall not be employed for any work detrimental to morality or health. The prohibited type of work shall be determined by the Presidential Decree.

Article 64 (Minor Certificate)

For each minor worker under 18, an employer shall keep at each workplace a copy of the census register testifying to his age and a written consent of his parent or guardian.

(and there is more there).

Also they have a minimum wage law there as well, it's over 4 bucks per hour.

Given that there is also compulsory education, (which I think has to do with teacher unions, that want to secure their positions) and it is a very 'heated' and competitive environment, in a way that requires very high marks to be able to get a job apparently, there is obviously too much stress.

This type of education process combined with these types of labour laws are aimed at producing workers, employees, not businessmen, not owners of business.

I think if South Korea wants to give more opportunities to its young people, to reduce this stress and increase entrepreneurship and independence, they need to allow people to opt out of the compulsory education process and to allow people to hire minors as apprentices and they need to wave all sorts of regulations, starting with the minimum wage.

There has to be a way for a business to advertise to kids younger than 15, maybe 11-12, to get kids interested in what the business is doing and to allow the kids to get experience in that business (even if this means they don't get paid much and they have to forgo the compulsory education).

I think we are creating robots, not individuals with this compulsory education and pressure to get highest scores on exams rather than allowing people to experiment with their interests in different types of businesses early on. I think the kids who are into these games are actually goal oriented and they are suppressed and depressed by the system, they could be entrepreneurs, but they are robbed of that chance.

Re:Motivation

[roman_mir]

Oh, and by the way, check this out:

South Korea was the first country in the world to provide high-speed internet access to every primary, junior, and high school.

- well, as per usual the government creates the problem! You get more of what you subsidise and less of what you tax, so they get more Internet addicts because they are subsidising Internet access from primary school and on.

Re:Motivation

[twmcneil]

Seems to me that these kids need something to do

Agreed. I get the same feeling every time I see a bunch of kids taking turns using a wooden stick to swat at a small leather sphere. Really, don't these kids have anything better to do with their time?

Re:Motivation

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah much of what most adults do as kids was a big waste of time.

But it was fun wasn't it? And when you grow up, you realize that what most adults do as adults is also a huge waste of time, or worse (like ruining the lives of millions of others).

Much of our world economy is about finding new and hopefully fun/interesting ways for humans to waste time and resources, before they eventually die.

Re:Motivation

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh noes! Some country in the world dares institute laws that prevent slave-like uneducated child labor in sweatshops! Shock, horror!

Re:Motivation

[ultranova]

This type of education process combined with these types of labour laws are aimed at producing workers, employees, not businessmen, not owners of business.

A wise choice, seeing how it's the workers who produce the wealth, and businessmen merely manage it (at best; usually they just loot it).

I think if South Korea wants to give more opportunities to its young people, to reduce this stress and increase entrepreneurship and independence, they need to allow people to opt out of the compulsory education process and to allow people to hire minors as apprentices and they need to wave all sorts of regulations, starting with the minimum wage.

What a great opportunity: instead of getting an education you get to be an unpaid child laborer.

I think we are creating robots, not individuals with this compulsory education and pressure to get highest scores on exams rather than allowing people to experiment with their interests in different types of businesses early on. I think the kids who are into these games are actually goal oriented and they are suppressed and depressed by the system, they could be entrepreneurs, but they are robbed of that chance.

I think you're confusing artists and businessmen. Artists experiment to figure out what interests them, businessmen try to maximize some variable (such as profits or test scores). An entrepreneur who prioritizes based on what happens to interest him is not going to be in business for very long.

What I can't figure out is if you're serious, or doing some kind of absurd parody of libertarianism.

Re:Motivation

[roman_mir]

A wise choice, seeing how it's the workers who produce the wealth, and businessmen merely manage it (at best; usually they just loot it).

- ignorant comment.

Get a bunch of workers into one location and nobody who wants to run a business with them, no investment capital, no tools provided by the investment capital, no direction, no idea what to do, see how that turns out for you.

What a great opportunity: instead of getting an education you get to be an unpaid child laborer.

- did I say anything about forcing people out of schools and into jobs? Or are you under impression that parents are interested only in exploiting their children, and thus they cannot be trusted and their children cannot be trusted, but the government can?

I think you're confusing artists and businessmen. Artists experiment to figure out what interests them, businessmen try to maximize some variable (such as profits or test scores). An entrepreneur who prioritizes based on what happens to interest him is not going to be in business for very long.

- you have no idea, completely ignorant of how the businesses are created, who stands behind them, how much time and capital investment it takes to get a business moving, what types of decisions must be taken to make ANY profit, forget about 'maximising' profits, how about getting 1 dollar in profit first.

What I can't figure out is if you're serious, or doing some kind of absurd parody of libertarianism.

- luckily I am not confused about you and your complete ignorance.

Re:Motivation

[Raenex]

Funny how you take a story about gaming in S. Korea and turn it into your hobby horse.

Re:Motivation

[roman_mir]

Except it is not a story about 'gaming' in South Korea, it is a story about addictions fuelled by government subsidies that ensure that the kids in primary, junior and high schools have Internet access.

It is a story about addictions, and this very story talks about how government is searching for the 'cure' completely oblivious that it is the cause of the disease. The root cause of this is subsidies on the one hand that channel kids into the Internet addictions and on the other hand it is about laws and regulations that prevent kids from being engaged in anything but their ridiculous school work, with all the pressure, which probably adds to the stress enough that kids look for the way to get out of it.

I suppose the Internet is better than drugs, that's the only redeeming quality of the story.

As for you - way to miss the big picture... probably always.

Re:Motivation

[Raenex]

Except it is not a story about 'gaming' in South Korea, it is a story about addictions fuelled by government subsidies that ensure that the kids in primary, junior and high schools have Internet access.

Only in your deluded mind do you think that kids having access to the Internet is worth a rant that starts with "addictions fuelled by government subsidies".

Re:Motivation

[roman_mir]

Only in your empty head things happen without cause. How is it, living with a belief that everything happens independently and regardless of any preceding events? Must be a surprise, every time.

Re:Motivation

[Raenex]

Only in your empty head things happen without cause.

That's not what I said. I said, "Only in your deluded mind do you think that kids having access to the Internet is worth a rant that starts with "addictions fuelled by government subsidies"."

What if the free market had brought about the Internet to kids all on its own? Are you going to go into a rant about the evils of the free market? And what about benefits from having the Internet, such as having easy access to information? You act like the government was giving kids alcohol.

Re:Motivation

[roman_mir]

and this is a story about baseball now, not about a bunch of teenagers that are depressed out of their lives, spending 14-19 hours playing videogames they are hooked on in a country that subsidises Internet access to all schools and preschools? Ha, I didn't see that coming.

Re:Motivation

[Anonymous Coward]

Strawman arguments are lies. You, therefore, are a liar.

Actually Read the Article

[Anonymous Coward]

Quite an interesting story, especially amount of struggle between MK and his parents.

I will say I speak with personal experience when I went through the same struggle with my parents over a decade ago. My dream was to be a professional gamer. At certain point when I realize I could not be the best, "I played against Slayers_Boxer and lost within first 10 minutes 2/3 games (It was a tournament, round of 128 or something of that sort)," I quickly realized professional gaming is not for me.

This is true for anything, if you are not in top 20 in the world for anything related to entertainment, (gymnastics, boxing, football, dance, whatever else) chances are you will end up as a nobody.

Re:Actually Read the Article

[CanHasDIY]

Quite an interesting story, especially amount of struggle between MK and his parents.

Seconded; this is one FA that's worth the read.

Street Countdown

[ethanms]

Visions of "professional" gamers make me think of that episode from IT Crowd where Moss starts playing "street countdown", it's a bunch of people taking a game WAY too seriously, yet somehow it actually is legitimate...

Prime: "First rule of Street Countdown. Is that you really must try and tell as many people as possible about it. It's a rather fun game and the more people you tell about it the better."

As a musician

[Stirling Newberry]

Classical music and games are going to converge, because music is about putting technology into the ear and the hand. Each new wave of technology has produced its wave of instruments to go with it, from the awl (the flute), tanning (the skin drum), through fine work tools and measurement (violin), metallurgy (the baroque organ), the factory (mass produced pianos), mechanics (valve instruments), and including electricity (rock and roll) and digital technology (sampling DJs). Gaming is merely an expression of the human need to put our hands on things and make it sing.

Six Figure Income?

[dcw3]

Internet gaming breeds two extremes: elite "athletes" who earn fame and six figures

Considering that 100,000 Won is only about $88, I feel sorry for these guys.

Re:Six Figure Income?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://sc2earnings.com/

Deaths? Typical journalist story

[DNS-and-BIND]

What we see here is a typical product of journalism, circa 2012. Either you play video games or you die trying. How many people actually died playing games in South Korea? Just look at the writer's pathetic point of view. It's like he's never heard of video games before. "He was a conqueror -- a general who controlled sci-fi armies and determined the fate of civilization." What the FUCK? We're still hearing this garbage? This is the same crap that journalists wrote about Galaga in 1982. "One is a dead ringer for Dr. Bunsen, Beaker's sidekick on "The Muppet Show." WTF? Beaker is Dr. Bunsen's sidekick. How can we trust anyone who doesn't even bother to get basic pop culture facts right? What does that say about the rest of the "facts" in this article...about pop culture? After setting up a base in the northeast corner of the map, "MarineKing sent foot soldiers to root out his opponent's headquarters -- a glowing blue pyramid spitting out blue termites -- and blew the whole thing up before the 10-minute mark." Here we have a serious, accredited journalist - who writes for CNN - and he doesn't even know the difference between Terrans and Protoss? Come ON! Would an editor send a reporter to cover an event where he doesn't even know the difference between Republicans and Democrats? Between socialists and fascists? Between OWS and jackbooted thugs? But, as soon as the weird, incomprehensible world of "those scary video games" is entered, the reporter needs to advertise his outsider status - where in other topics being an outsider is considered a badge of ignorance and provincialism.

Over lunch his dad, who has become well-versed enough in "StarCraft" strategy to engage in lengthy conversations about troop movements, attack formations and character choices, tried to help MarineKing with his strategy against MVP.

Putting Starcraft in scare quotes? WTF? Who does that? And mixed case? It's just plain Starcraft. Yeah, I know, Blizzard calls it StarCraft, but again the reporter is advertising his outsider status. "I'm not one of these video game freakazoids," he seems to be saying. "I'm just here to report and confirm what geeks the rest of us already know that they are. They are The Other, and worthy of "

The entire article purports to show us the extremes...that's called yellow journalism, eh? And yet for all its bluster, it mentions but two deaths. How many people died in Chicago this last weekend?

It's totally obvious that this "journalist" had his article written before he even got off the plane in Seoul Incheon (renowned as being one of the world's most sleep-friendly airports, and true to its reputation). He treats his subjects as if they were among the groups CNN treats as strange objects to be examined on a laboratory slide (for example: devout Catholics, gun owners, Orthodox Jews, Texans).

Our girl athletes will kick their butts

[vlm]

addicts who literally play until they die

spindly creatures that seem to flail about at their own will, banging at the computer keyboard with such frequency and ferocity ... to be treated to a maddening drum roll of clicks and clacks.

(Insert nationalism) I would put odds on our average domestic US female facebook addict when opposing a Korean star crafter any day.

I'm not sure what the zerg rush equivalent is called in farmville but even an elite .kr player would have no idea what hit them were they to compete against our ladies.

Re:Our girl athletes will kick their butts

[Anonymous Coward]

MaddeLisk is possibly the best female Swedish Zerg at the moment. She can obliterate the average US facebook addict in a heartbeat, regardless of gender.

20 million kids are eaten every second

[Rogerborg]

By bats.

Nice think-of-the-kids scare piece, it'll play well with Tammy Teaparty. But couldn't he at least have worked in some sinister Ender's Game reference and asked how America's cyber-soldiery will fare on the battlefield against these little yellow freak-children? (Note: All Korea is North Korea to Tammy Teaparty).

Re:20 million kids are eaten every second

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice think-of-the-kids scare piece, it'll play well with Tammy Teaparty.

Donna Democrat will gobble it up with equal zeal.

Chess and Go champions

[betterunixthanunix]

Have you ever seen parents pushing their kids to become champion Chess or Go players? I see little difference with Starcraft, except perhaps that video games are still too new for something as "timeless" as Chess to emerge. Chess went through quite a bit of development, and games like Shogi might be considered "forks."

What will really be interesting to see is an RTS that is played for centuries, even as computers and computer software become more advanced.

Re:Deaths? Typical journalist story

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea, but can you tell us how you really feel?

Typical media hyperbole bullshit.

[Anonymous Coward]

If they instead were musicans then this story would instead be about their talent and dedication. But since it has to do with games then its cast in a negative light using a lot of forbidding adjetives and grim setting.

Re:"timeless" as Chess

[TaoPhoenix]

Actually, Chess is in a bit of conceptual identity trouble. The power that computers have over modern chess has begun to encroach the game. We're in a Silver Age now because new young players can ramp up faster, but just around that corner comes the point that it's beginning to dry up.

Anand said in a lecture recently that Garry Kasparov made his name as an Openings analyst, and together with his teams created novelties that could last for months before they were finally beaten. Now, in the computer age, at the top level a novelty MIGHT get you through two tournaments tops, and by that point someone will have posted the counter.

Anand also said that it used to be important to know how to analyze a position from scratch, and record your findings. Now, he said, you let the computer blunder check millions of positions and then you save your work for the important positions. The skill has changed to Information Management rather than positional analysis one by one.

Re:$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

[Anonymous Coward]

You made my day, thanks!

Typing too much != Strategy

[Tei]

Typing all that much, because like games that way. Is possible to balance games where less clicking is desirable, but koreans get expert in "micro", controlling the units directly to impose tactical on how the units play.

Enjoyment?

[kryliss]

Do they even enjoy the game(s) any more?

I disagree with the use of quotes around athlete.

[Anonymous Coward]

We don't need to refer to these activities as e-sports either. They are real sports. People who play these are athletes. It takes physical endurance, great coordination, and strategy to defeat the other participants.

Re:Deaths? Typical journalist story

[Raenex]

Either you play video games or you die trying.

No, the mesage from the article isn't that simple. It mentions those extremes, yes, and the headline in typical fashion plays it up, but the article offers mutliple viewpoints.

But, as soon as the weird, incomprehensible world of "those scary video games" is entered, the reporter needs to advertise his outsider status - where in other topics being an outsider is considered a badge of ignorance and provincialism.

It's a "stranger in a strange land" perspective, and there's nothing wrong with it as a story format, especially considering the audience he's writing to is not going to be familiar with Starcraft or gaming in S. Korea.

Putting Starcraft in scare quotes? WTF?

It's part of standard style guides to use quotes for titles of things like book, movies, and in this case, a video game.

And mixed case? It's just plain Starcraft.

The official case is mixed. Look it up.

It's totally obvious that this "journalist" had his article written before he even got off the plane in Seoul Incheon (renowned as being one of the world's most sleep-friendly airports, and true to its reputation).

It's totally obvious that you're ranting in your typical style, ignoring the facts. Much of the article covers MarineKing's personal story, along with perspective from his parents, goes into detail about a tournament he played in, and even covers the lunch he had at the tournament.

Warning: Pop(parody) Psychology Present

[Anonymous Coward]

I stopped reading at
"He drifted further into the game and, as his parents came to see it, out of the physical world. It was all fiction, of course, but it seemed real to him. And soon MarineKing started to like this fantasy world better than the real one."

OH NOES. HE CAN'T DISTINGUISH WHAT'S REAL FROM WHAT'S NOT. He thinks he's a galactic cyborg whose only mission in life is to eradicate batman fans. Obviously, he's a deluded psychopathic danger to society. I think CNN news -- or, for that matter, any news site that has to describe what Starcraft is-- is a site I don't read for good reason.

surprised? you shouldn't be

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny how you take a story about gaming in S. Korea and turn it into your hobby horse.

Not really a hobby horse, more like a reason for living. Roman_mir isn't here to talk about technology - he never does. He's here to recruit new members for his cult.

Foreign Correspondent

[dohzer]

I wonder if it's anything like the Foreign Correspondent episode that aired last week in Australia: http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2012/s3557618.htm

Re:surprised? you shouldn't be

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really a hobby horse, more like a reason for living. Roman_mir isn't here to talk about technology - he never does. He's here to recruit new members for his cult.

That's impossible, since it contradicts everything roman_mir teaches us. He taught us that profit is the only worthwhile goal and measurement of success.

I firmly believe he's a guy who practice what he preaches (he did repeatedly say he avoids the US, he pays privately for his own health/education/etc), so I firmly believe he's making profit by posting on slashdot. If he's not making profit, by his own principles he needs to stop posting and find something else to do

He can't possibly be addicted to posting on slashdot. That would mean he is in no position to talk about gaming addicts.