Slashdot Mirror


Wozniak Predicts Horrible Problems With the Cloud

Hugh Pickens writes "'I think it's going to be horrendous,' said Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak when asked about the shift away from hard disks towards uploading data into the cloud. The comment came in a post-performance dialogue with audience members after a performance in Washington of The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs, monologist Mike Daisey's controversial two-hour expose of Apple's labor conditions in China. 'I think there are going to be a lot of horrible problems in the next five years.' The engineering wizard behind the progenitor of today's personal computer, the Apple II, expanded on what really worried him about the cloud. 'With the cloud, you don't own anything. You already signed it away through the legalistic terms of service with a cloud provider that computer users must agree to. I want to feel that I own things,' Wozniak said. 'A lot of people feel, "Oh, everything is really on my computer," but I say the more we transfer everything onto the web, onto the cloud, the less we're going to have control over it.'"

16 of 331 comments (clear)

  1. The Steve at Apple everyone SHOULD listen to by crazyjj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ....but, sadly, doesn't.

    --
    What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    1. Re:The Steve at Apple everyone SHOULD listen to by swanzilla · · Score: 5, Funny

      ....but, sadly, doesn't.

      (The other one isn't saying much)

    2. Re:The Steve at Apple everyone SHOULD listen to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      O, ye of little faith.

    3. Re:The Steve at Apple everyone SHOULD listen to by whargoul · · Score: 5, Funny

      No

    4. Re:The Steve at Apple everyone SHOULD listen to by jhoegl · · Score: 5, Informative

      perhaps you are not understanding what he is saying.
      At Home: Files secure. In Cloud: unknown variables. Server down, backup processes, human intervention, government intervention, service turned off without notice
      At Home: Legally yours, and cannot be searched without a search warrant. In Cloud: Search warrant given to cloud provider, if at all, and data is searched without your knowledge.
      At Home: Files not datamined unless you download a virus. In Cloud: you can be sure, datamined.
      At Home: Files are accessed by known individuals pending hacking In Cloud: People you dont know have access.

      So... maybe you are right, simple files like MP3s can be stored there, just be sure you have proof of purchase, lest the RIAA come after you.
      Hey... maybe you can store the Proof of Purchase on the cloud!

    5. Re:The Steve at Apple everyone SHOULD listen to by postbigbang · · Score: 5, Interesting

      At home:

      - no one makes backups
      - no one protects from coffee spills or burglaries, for that matter
      - people lose their machines all the time
      - download malware, and let cats sleep on their machines

      At the Office, which if you're smart, will be the same practice as the cloud:

      - Backups are rarely checked for integrity
      - People spill coffee on their machines, and they get stolen
      - Someone forgets to pay the Symantec tax, or doesn't look at the CVE and oops-- all gone!
      - Nearly 100% of networks get cracked every few years

      There isn't much difference, except that in the cloud a few people have training, which they may or may not use correctly.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  2. Creator vs. Consumer by Gothmolly · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Woz is a creator. So was Jobs. But they both needed Consumers - Jobs was more aware of that than Woz obviously.

    Woz wants to build something, own it, and carry it around in his pocket. Most modern IT stuff is designed to give you a means to consume content.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:Creator vs. Consumer by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      User generated content has been a revolution. People get news and information from each other instead of central news agencies and big content providers. The whole attraction of things like Twitter and Facebook, and of course Slashdot, is the user generated content.

      People are no longer consumers of content, they are creators. The shift now is that instead of creating on your PC and uploading you can create online directly. I have documents that I made entire in Google Docs, web pages and blog posts written entirely in a CMS, G+ posts that never touch my HDD. I back what I can up locally but a lot of people use them as their only storage medium, trusting that they will never go away or steal their work or otherwise abuse it. And as Woz says, no-one reads the T&Cs.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  3. File this under "no shit" by neokushan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We've already seen what can happen when a cloud service goes down. Amazon and Microsoft's Azure have both went down recently, causing havoc for many businesses. When Megaupload went down, it caused a huge loss for many legitimate customers as well. If your Steam account gets suspended, or you disagree with the new TOS - you're shit out of luck, all that you "own" is gone for good and you can't do shit about it. Dropbox lost a shitload of emails due to a security breach, Sony lost the details for 70million+ customers for a similar reason. Every single example of a cloud operation that I can think of, be it a service or a product, has had issues and it's not going to change.

    The cloud is a wonderful idea in principal, but we need a completely different outlook on it. And possibly a hell of a lot of new laws governing ownership of the content.

    --
    +1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
  4. That Mike Daisey? by Hatta · · Score: 5, Informative

    Why would Woz legitimize the work of that liar?

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  5. Re:So does everyone in IT... by Jailbrekr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I disagree. there are some valid applications for the cloud, such as outsourcing low volume or low priority services such as FTP or fax. But once you cross the line into storing office documents then the business risk grows exponentially. It is all about finding a balance.

    --
    Feed the need: Digitaladdiction.net
  6. Re:So does everyone in IT... by mlts · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are a number of people who gain from moving stuff to the cloud:

    Cloud providers for one. They can charge rates near the cost of a full fledged data center [1], and they really have no responsibilities for security or backups. Security breaches can be hushed with the finger pointed at the client. Legal action? If someone finds something sue-able, good luck getting past the binding arbitration clause which essentially sue-proofs the cloud provider. Of course, don't forget that if/when that cloud provider goes under, the next owner has full and unrestricted access to the server data (the data from Borders being bought out by B&N comes to mind). Far less scrupulous organizations can buy the servers too. PII? Here is the magnet link, hope someone cares enough to keep the seed going.

    PHBs without any ITIL or other basic IT experience love the cloud. It means that someone else shoulders things and keeps staff small. Plus, it isn't their responsibility should data get lost or a security breach happen. By the time blame actually gets assigned, the breach would be forgotten about.

    Blackhats love the cloud. Imagine having access to the backend hard drives of hundreds of businesses, all at once. Just sit back and copy anything relevant, or if bored with a business, start altering some figures on stored documents so that company faces big penalties from the IRS or the EU. If an intruder really hates the cloud provider, it doesn't take much to drop all backend LUNs, stored snapshots, and replications.

    ISPs love the cloud. They can also watch the bits fly past, not to mention the bandwidth costs for businesses relying on the cloud.

    Of course, the cloud has its uses. However, once someone gets an encryption key management framework in place, an ability to have known good backups, yadda, yadda, with the bandwidth charges and charges for fatter pipes to and from the cloud service, it might be far cheaper to just have a data center.

    [1]: Regardless of where the servers are located, a company has to buy them to host locally, or is going to pay someone else's cost to have them in their facility. The cost of the server will be paid for, somehow.

  7. Incorrect -- Woz is still employed by Apple by blahbooboo · · Score: 5, Informative

    He's not at Apple and has not been for a long while.

    Wrong. He may not work there daily, but he is still listed as an employee of Apple

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Wozniak#Employment_with_Apple

    1. Re:Incorrect -- Woz is still employed by Apple by turbidostato · · Score: 5, Funny

      "He still draws a check, sure but that's different than being a functional member of the organization."

      I bet he isn't a true Scotsman either.

  8. pop by slashmojo · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hotmail provides pop3 access so you can certainly download your mail.

  9. There is no "Cloud" by sycodon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "the shift away from hard disks towards other people's hard drives"

    Fixed.

    I hate the term "the cloud". It's fucking remote servers is all. I can just see some guy with 20 years experience managing network server applies for a job and HR screens him because he doesn't have "Cloud" in his resume. It's a stupid marketing term that people are taking for a technology.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.