Slashdot Mirror
The World's Greatest Competitive Programmer
An anonymous reader writes "Technology Review profiles Petr Mitrichev, who has since 2005 dominated the world of competitive programming, a little known sport where competitors furiously code for five hours in pursuit of glory and cash prizes worth tens of thousands of dollars. Mitrichev now works for Google, and competes only for leisure, but is still ranked number one. Many large tech companies, such as Facebook and Google, now sponsor and pay close attention to competitive coding contests, seeing them as a place to recruit new talent."
As a Professional Developer, competitions hurt my ego, so I will come up with scores of excuses on how competitive programming isn't a good measure of one skill. I prefer to keep the illusion that I am the best programmer out there, just because I tend to out perform my peers.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
We're talking about coding competitions here, not posting-to-slashdot competitions.
Heh. Speak for yourself. A friend of mine lost his virginity in Phoenix, at ACM conference, and we were there for the college programming contest. It must have been '94/'95 or something. The organizers were generous, and we ended up at a fancy bar after the closing dinner. We were happy with how we had done, and success + cash is VERY attractive to some women.
Actually, I think that the whole 'computer nerds have no girlfriends' is a obsolete tropes. The losers in their parents' basement, maybe. But nowadays computer interests translate in employment, responsibility and ultimately financial security... My colleagues have better marriages than my neighbors.
They appreciate quality food that takes time to prepare.
So do I. I don't give a rat's tail what you can come up with in 2 hours. What are you wise enough to come up with in two years?
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Might as well have a world's greatest virgin competition...
...
Which makes me ponder, by what metric would we measure the "world's greatest virgin?" Ability to remain abstinent in the face of constant temptation?
Damn you, AC, you just stole my afternoon...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
A place where you can programmers that can give you quick, dirty code that gets the job done but ultimately leaves you with a disease.
While there is a huge difference between a good coder and an average one, I always preferred one who thought out all the possible data cases and programmed not just for the norm but for the exception. Not to mention one who spent more time on creating test cases than actual coding. And doing speed tests of the code. The life cycle costs of the great programmer's code is so superior to the average that it is worth while paying the price to get it right the first time it goes in a customer visible release.
I've seen bug fixes cost more than the original functionality cost to create.
Said from a perspective of one who mucked around with OSs for 37 years.
This competition produce the fastest programmer.
I was under the impression that a good programmer had a clear and easy style, was writing comments etc.
Do you really think that's what's mesured in these competitions ? I'm sure their code is horrible.
...a little known sport where competitors furiously code for five hours in pursuit of glory and cash prizes...
That was the original story line for a movie, but I hear Vin Diesel preferred cars over code.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
. . . which drugs are we supposed to take, to improve our performance? Will they institute doping controls?
All REAL sports have drugs. If your sport does not involve drug enhanced performance, it isn't a REAL sport.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I'd say that the biggest problem here is that being good at these competitions does not necessarily mean that one would provide great value for the company and it does not even have much to do with technical skills.
Speed programmer in interview, "I win competitions where I write code fast and it works."
Employer, seeing a proven productive programmer that will reduce development costs, "You're hired!"
But go ahead, all of you tell yourself how you plan more, design better, think about the problem and come up with an optimal solution - while your meter is running. Go ahead and try, just try, to convince a company that your way is better than the speed programming champion.
ROI talks, bullshit walks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah ... talk to the hand!
Woah. I'm surprised you can type with that chip on your shoulder. Ease up there . . .
Lets start refering to The War Against Terror by it's initials. . .
Eunuchs have an unfair advantage.
that turns coffee into code.
As a manager, our tests are a bit more strenuous reflecting the importance of the synergies of many diverse skills. The dynamic test includes email with a certain threshold of cc’s to disinterested parties. We get bonus points for lunches out and extra points on top of that for lunches paid for by vendors. A second part of the exam includes writing unintelligible memos and unfollowable policies. Tests are administered through the cloud, using value-added third-party vendors. Oh yeah, more bonus points for using management speak words.
I'm world champion, baby.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
not a chip. it's the truth most peoples' egos won't allow them to see.
Shit, that ain't nothing. Look at these two ladykillers at the world's fastest typist competition. You know that bearded guy has never seen a vagina before in person.
That's all gonna change now that he's the world's fastest typist, though. Fame, fortune, and beautiful women await!
most of the programmers I've met are also politically correct bitches who do what their wives tell them to, making them perfect pets for their feminist indoctrinated wives
back the truck up. this is what normal people call a "married man." the wife doesn't have to be feminist and the man doesn't have to be a programmer. i get the feeling you live in a very remote place and never travel more than a 20 mile radius from your home. have you even kissed a girl yet?
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Seems interesting that the registration link is not https
http://www.facebook.com/hackercup/register
A friend of mine lost his virginity in Phoenix, at ACM conference, and we were there for the college programming contest.
The fact that the 21+ year old guy that didn't lose his virginity until college is being held up as an example of success with the ladies among programmers is fucking hysterical.
> you and your 'colleagues' just won a lottery
Sure, it sounds like a lottery. No way the ACM finalists would be able to find jobs on the basis of their skills alone. It has to be luck.
"I believe in luck. That's how I explain the success of people whom I hate and envy"
No good deed goes unpunished...
i'm finding about 10 good candidate jobs out of every 50 i look at.
Are you dull? What matters is how many good people are applying for each job.
i get solicited for my skills all the time.
Then either your existing clients are asking for more work, which is barely solicitation, or you believe all those e-mails from recruiters.
The programming market in the US is awful. Unless you're already a senior programmer, in which case you're fine unless you're in an unfashionable field and have just been made redundant, it's extremely hard to get a job. I say this as a business owner who watches excellent candidates scramble for employment.
I went to high school in Detroit in the late 80's and, believe it or not, there was an official city-wide high school computer programming league much like the high school sports teams. We were given a list of individual tasks and had to write a program in BASIC on IBM XT's and the entire event was timed. Each working program was dropped onto floppy and handed to the judges to execute with their own data sets and we were scored based on time to execute (if it took too long it had to be rewritten) and if it actually worked.
I led my school's team to 3rd place three years in a row back then. I had often wondered if there were leagues like this in other cities. Not sure if it still exists either but it was great back then.
Fifty watts per channel, baby cakes.
There are times when you need someone who can come in, find a quick hit solution that works, and moves on. There are also times when you need someone who can sit down, thoroughly analyze the situation, devise a long term plan to resolve it, and stick with it through to completion.
I think maybe back before the 80s when you had to be really hard-core to be committed enough not only to own a computer but to actually be willing to put in the effort of being proficient with it on a technical basis, many of the people in that category were probably the stereotypical nerd. These days with the easy availability of hardware and the accessibility of tools, a much more representative cross-section of the population is getting into the game. I'd say at least 2/3 of the successful programmers I know are just common ordinary dudes that while not being overtly alpha like a jock are certainly not what you would associate with the live-at-home basement dweller we all joke about. As a matter of fact most of those basement "nerds" are usually just gamers and enthusiasts that can regale you with the minutia of which sata cable is the best and which graphics card is the most value for the money but would be totally lost without a GUI to click on. And you can forget about them being able to program anything as who has time for that when there's a RAID, MAN!?!
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
lmao. what do you write, cobol? there are tons of programming jobs out there. i'm finding about 10 good candidate jobs out of every 50 i look at. i get solicited for my skills all the time. maybe you need to move to where the programming jobs are at.
There aren't enough positions to go around, sorry. Most of those opening you see are either already filled, or are open for a reason. A negative one.
back the truck up. this is what normal people call a "married man." the wife doesn't have to be feminist and the man doesn't have to be a programmer. i get the feeling you live in a very remote place and never travel more than a 20 mile radius from your home. have you even kissed a girl yet?
So doing what your wife tells you like mom to son is what constitutes a married man today? You know what? You're right! Pathetic, isn't it? Guys like you who revolve their self worth around their success with women are a big part of this problem. Keep flagellating yourself sir. Maybe, if you do it enough, maybe women will like you more! Fire off all the ad hom you want, it doesn't help your case.
If you can convert being a computer nerd into a successful component of your career it can certainly help attract women. If your computer nerd behaviour is your life, without anything but personal fulfillment from it (i.e. you happily lounge around in your underwear eating twinkies and can't get a decent job) then you're unlikely to have much success with the ladies.
The effect of being employed by google or facebook helps a lot too, since non tech people at least know those companies exist. I know a guy who used to work at ATI (when it was still ATI). When women asked where he worked rather than saying "ATI" he said "I design computer parts at a company at the 404 and 407" (404 and 407 are highways that anyone in toronto would know, though technically ATI HQ is one block west of that at Leslie). That made a big difference in his success with the ladies, and took him quite a while of failed attempts to impress saying ATI to find a better strategy. In *any* technical field it's really important to know how to relate to people who aren't in that field and the computer nerd stereotype can very much be overcome if you just assume people you meet know absolutely nothing about the computer industry, and don't act like they should.
Hm, is it the lottery where everyone wins who buys a ticket? Every programmer I know who is reasonably up to date and has one modicum of social sense (the bar is quite low here. Pretty much "don't creep out the HR girl in the interview by talking about your assault rifle collection" should cover it) gets 3 or 4 unsolicited calls per week from recruiters begging for them to interview. Seriously, get a Linkedin profile, write "programmer" in the skills section, and watch the emails flood in. If your skill set is 30 years out of date and you use nothing but AS400 RPG2 or you refuse to use a mainstream platform/language then it is your own damn fault. If you have any experience in C# or Java, and cannot get a job, there must be something horribly horribly wrong (other languages are good too, and I do not actually use much of either at work these days, but they are currently pretty much job-guaranteed languages).
Check out his blog for videos/screencasts of him coding
Once. Consistently ranked in the top 5% on a lot of these coding competitions. He's really fast. Gets amazing things working in remarkably short time. Unfortunately they're an unmaintainable mess, and tend to be packed with bugs. They work for exactly the cases known at the start (well, sometimes only even most of those), and break as soon as they find a new edge case. We got a very low to possibly negative net productivity out of him.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
I don't think they do programming contests for large scale projects that need to be reliable, accurate, and thoroughly secure ... such as a banking system. I would not put a whole lot of value in contest wins when hiring developers for such projects.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Let's call a spade a spade.
Companies aren't funding this shit to look for top talent, they're funding this shit to look for efficient monkey slaves.
Correction: The programming market in the US varies by region. In the Midwest, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting an available programming job.
I have heard that the situation is much as you describe along the East and West Coasts, though.
I've done these while preparing for a job interview, and they are really hard (apart from the earlier competitions). It's amazing to me that this guy does them for relaxation. It shows just how different people can be, or how plastic the brain is.
Intelligence is luck, just like retardation. No-one was born "deserving" their intelligence or stupidity.
Envy is a rational response to the arbitrary hands nature deals. Religion teaches us that envy is bad because, well, then you might actually dare to speak up against the status quo. This is why Western children are taught from a young age that envy is wrong.
That's not what your parent was arguing, of course. Though perhaps it should have been.
If your algorithms change or need to be adjusted frequently then you may need to modify the relative level of the coding. For example, if you go to a doctor they won't tell you a bunch of medical jargon and expect that you know what it means...even though they're precisely explaining what is going on, what will transpire, and what the solution is; they will tell you in terms that you can understand. The same is true with programming. For very complex algorithms that can be maintained by a couple people you have more flexibility with how low-level you can be with the data structures and overall design. If you have a vast set of algorithms that many people must maintain the it make sense to "dumb" it down a little and focus more on creating a maintainable codebase rather than something overly complex.
If you start off with the second person, you generally do not need the first person.
I have nothing against these sorts of contests, but I'd rather see a competition where a developer writes an elegant solution to a problem in some reasonable amount of time, and *documents their approach completely*.
Code poorly designed and without a good set of documentation is a perishable asset to any business that has changing needs... which is most of them.
Yes, because success with the ladies (if you can even call most of them that nowadays) is the only measurement of worth men have, right?
"For me!"
Intelligence is luck, just like retardation. No-one was born "deserving" their intelligence or stupidity.
So far, so good.
Envy is a rational response to the arbitrary hands nature deals.
There is nothing rational about envy. Rationally, some people have to be smarter than others, just as some people have to get lucky. It is not rational to discriminate against smarter people for being smarter, nor is it rational to try and eliminate luck.
Religion teaches us that envy is bad because, well, then you might actually dare to speak up against the status quo. This is why Western children are taught from a young age that envy is wrong.
I don't know about "wrong". Envy means wasting time and energy over things you cannot, and probably shouldn't, change. You can prevent a certain undeserving (whatever that means) someone from being popular or successful, but you simply cannot prevent undeserving people, in general, from being so.
Spend that energy you meant to burn over jealousy and anger into making yourself better, for whatever definition of "better" that suites you (richer, more educated, better married, whatever), accept that some people will always be better, by your own criteria, than you, and you will lead much happier life than by being envious.
I don't know whether envy is a "bad" thing, but it is certainly counter productive and unhelpful all round.
Shachar
But... but... it's a really awesome assault rifle collection! Each unit lovingly wrapped in the skin of a dead woman's underwear. What would be the point of it if not to get a job easier?
I even wrote some software specifically to organize it by age of the victim.
On your mark!
Get set!
Nerds!!!
So, it's cool to lose your virginity in college after you're old enough to get into a bar? And you make it sound like he more or less "bought" it. Yeah, totally not a loser.
i now dedicate every single post i write in lowercase to your dissatisfaction. may you suffer severely for a very long time. here's some lowercase business ipsum to keep the suffering going...
completely customize process-centric catalysts for change vis-a-vis dynamic supply chains. efficiently synergize seamless leadership rather than 24/7 users. competently target economically sound roi whereas 2.0 markets. continually evolve highly efficient total linkage through multidisciplinary web services. collaboratively embrace client-focused portals through cooperative customer service. progressively leverage existing focused materials after cross-platform total linkage. continually mesh resource sucking schemas via b2c alignments. globally cultivate sustainable vortals after compelling markets. compellingly network client-focused services for global meta-services.
professionally reintermediate compelling best practices via timely best practices. dynamically scale seamless users via wireless infrastructures. continually administrate magnetic content through multimedia based platforms. rapidiously formulate bricks-and-clicks content without intuitive paradigms. continually incentivize effective strategic theme areas through interdependent markets. compellingly deploy resource maximizing results after turnkey systems. credibly grow stand-alone growth strategies with bricks-and-clicks partnerships. authoritatively matrix one-to-one infrastructures after process-centric schemas. competently matrix plug-and-play models with state of the art sources.
professionally evisculate virtual e-tailers with team driven architectures. competently customize standardized metrics after innovative processes. monotonectally embrace team driven e-services after excellent process improvements. proactively unleash impactful core competencies through standardized deliverables. dynamically incentivize world-class applications after bleeding-edge e-markets. dynamically generate visionary convergence with functionalized e-commerce. authoritatively evisculate sustainable mindshare via next-generation relationships. credibly underwhelm accurate growth strategies before excellent vortals. assertively drive alternative leadership with b2b interfaces. dramatically harness resource maximizing metrics without strategic synergy. proactively cultivate enterprise-wide e-business without out-of-the-box customer service. assertively restore global growth strategies without performance based growth strategies.
i wish i could be there in person to watch you twitch out.
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Yeah, pretty much this.
But to ward all you coasters away from my precious succulent jobs, I'll warn you that we hit 110 degF back there, and the entire month of July was 90+ and humid. Our winters AVERAGE at 18 degF, can swing down to -20 and we regularly get feet of snow that lasts the entire winter (just not the last one, that was pretty mild). You have to drive 3 hours before you reach civilization. We don't have fresh fish. And remember to scrap the mud off your boots before you get on our wooden sidewalks.
I've noticed that those who are unhappy with their lot in life almost always blame outside influences for their situation (even supernatural ones, as in your case), rather than looking inward to see what they could be doing differently. It's always somebody else's fault. The world is against me. I just have bad luck. The Man is trying to keep me down. Any of those sound familiar?
Newsflash: Life is not fair. The world owes you nothing. You have you carve out your own living on this rock. If you were fortunate enough to be born into a western society where water, food, and shelter are easy to come by, then you have nobody but yourself to blame for your lack of success.
I've been an avionics technician, a helpdesk monkey, a sysadmin, a consultant, a web developer, and a software engineer. I have no college degree, I'm 30 years old, and make almost 6 figures in the Midwest. I've never had a "break in employment" since I landed my first job as a teenager. Do you think that's because I sat around and fucking waited for a position to open up for me?
Misogyny much? Wow.
So everyone else has the problem, and you're the only one who doesn't.
In my experience, that is usually a red flag.
I think people who excel at competitions would be a perfect fit for Research and Development positions. That would include programming jobs on the cutting edge of some field (computational biology, financial engineering, petabyte data analytics, etc). The speed and insight required for competition success is exactly the qualities you'd want in roles like that. However prize-winning programmers might find normal enterprise computing jobs dull or uninteresting and would probably not be a good fit. Kentucky Derby winners don't make good plow horses !
Clearly you've never heard of the Brogrammer. Yeap, the guy in that pic is me. Usually I have three. Suck it, bitch.
No, but its a big one
Yeah, coding something from scratch over a few hours that works and solves a tough problem is impressive.
What I really want to see is the "coding hurdles", where developers are thrown into a nightmare of an existing project with 100k lines of bad code, and told to implement five new features... now THAT would be something!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Definitely my favorite competitive programming competition is the Google Code Jam.
Held annually, its a pretty nice competition. The qualifying round gives you as much time as you want, you just need to get a minimum points to go on. From there, each round is timed, and has 3 sub-rounds set at different times throughout the day. (Its an international competition). Competitors are ranked first by points (correct answers) and then ties are sorted by time taken. The top X of each round goes on to the next. The final round of 25 competitors takes place at Google.
They're really fun and very challenging. Google comes up with interesting questions, so there's nothing boilerplate here. They often have fun or humorous references, such as the 2011 code jam referencing Portal 2. (In a legally distinct manner). You receive a question, and a very simple example input. Then, when your program is ready, you can ask for the real data input, and you have 5 minutes to submit the proper output as requested by the problem. Performance is not directly judged, but there is a small input set and a large input set (worth more points), and the large input set is specifically chosen by google to be unfeasible to calculate without a sufficient big-O efficiency.
I highly recommend everyone have a go at it! :D You can practice previous year's problems any time you want.
http://code.google.com/codejam/
Does competitive programming including games where you must drink a tequila after every x-minutes or x-lines of coding or like something similar to "The Social Network"?
It's like when I listened to a VERY wise man once in the NFL on TV during an interview (Dexter Manley an NFL star, was great in his time): The interviewer said pretty much along the lines of this to him:
"Dexter, you're All-Pro this & that: Greatest at your position, perhaps best ever!"
He said, wisely, in reply:
---
"Guys, listen: There's a guy out there, right now, sitting on a couch watching this. He didn't have the grades, or the luck, to have gone past highschool sports (but he did have the raw skills + inborn talent) - he could be ME, right NOW, and do better... a lot of life, is luck"
---
I am forced to agree. I've seen it in coding, sports, academics, & yes, on the job professionally as a coder too!
Edward VanHalen of musical "Rock-N-Roll" fame also said something that SORT of dovetails into that:
---
"If I didn't have this guitar and time I put into it? I'd be out there pumping gas..."
---
(In other words, he put in the TIME & EFFORT, & got lucky it paid off! That, in & of itself, CAN BE A GAMBLE!)
Now, do I *think* the guy this article's about is GOOD? Sure!
Why?
He's consistent... that's a mark of a 'great one'!
* Some "Food 4 Thought", people...
APK
P.S.=> I've done some "OK" stuff in my time in the software programming arena, both professionally and in the freeware/shareware circuit, & I've determined 1 thing:
THERE IS NO "BEST"... not in programming, sports, music, heck - anything!
There's just more focused & determined workers, who really put their "ALL" into a particular program or topic, and excel because of it... but even they, at least the intelligent ones, most likely realize what I did, or what any boxer knows: Everyone has STRENGTHS in particular areas, & WEAKNESSES in others, nobody knows it all!
Plus, face it:
Yes, you can have "off days" (what writers call 'writers-block' pretty much), & can have FAIL days too... there's always SOMEONE out there that could "take you on, & out" (Any day of the week... period!)...
... apk
Dude, you pegged my Buzzword Bullshit Detector in the first sentence. Well played sir! :D
i think i love you. no homo.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
>Improving search results now involves more subtle tweaks, such as finding synonyms or other language tricks to help extract extra meaning from a user's search terms.
Well, the bearded guy DID come out of one on the day he was born.
Also, he may have spent some time at a house of ill repute.
yes, because not using a shift key on a casual forum equates to joblessness. i'd expect this from today's crop of 18yos, but not from someone with a 5 digit uid. surely you can reason better than the supposed idiocy you're ranting about?
1. lotteries aren't supernatural.
2. never said it was 'always' someone else's fault. we don't live in vaccums so everyones life situation is governed by chance. you can manipulate it somewhat with effort, but the result desired is not even close to a given.
3. that's right, the world owes us nothing. if anything I agreed with you, so maybe society should quit blaming people/calling them losers if they can't find work. if life isn't fair, it can't be entirely their fault. the real question is, what should these people do? just because you've gotten a stellar work career and never fell off doesn't mean the rest of us have. spare me the preaching if you haven't lived that life, thank you. it's these western societies that only allow one shot and zero fails that cause these situations in the first place. such societies deserve the run amok socialism these 'unemployable vagrants' demand (and usually get) at the expense of your liberties.
4. oh? so you magically made up work from nothing? how else would a position open? either the company's hiring or it's not. sometimes, you can manipulate your way in, but that is not usually the case.
4. ad hom much? wow. nowhere did I say I hate women. only people who've been indoctrinated to knee-jerk defend feminism from any and all criticism say that. I relayed my anecdotal observations of typical marital dynamics today. most guys today are pathetic spineless twats, employed or not.
I would rather have someone with good ability to create a well-factored domain model and description of solution requirements, given a client with a vague idea of what they want.
I would rather have someone who can first come up with all the important design constraints and trade-offs in a domain and problem, then creatively suggest alternative solutions, then they can methodically explore and compare how well each solution meets the constraints, and can methodically explore the pro-con decision tree on the trade-offs, to perhaps come up with a least bad solution (from this perspective), then a least bad solution (from that other perspective/priority weighting).
And I would rather have someone with great debugging skills; a great designer of experiments, a methodical fact gatherer, who knows what they don't know, and also one who occasionally gets, after pondering or exploring, deep creative insights into the probable or possible cause of the bug; someone who can debug well on their own or in a dialectic conversation with another programmer.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Those of you, who think you code it all, are very annoying to those of us who do.
Logged in to mod this up. No mod points. Me sad.
Sorry, but I read. There are certain conventions that make reading easier, and your writing in lowercase IS AS BAD AS WRITING IN ALL CAPS. IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME THING, KID.
If you want an adult to read what you write and take you seriously, do it correctly or be known as a childish fool.
If you want me to read that wall of gibberish, rewrite it like you would write a story or resume. It's unreadable as is. You show contempt for those you wish to communicate with, don't expect any readers.
Free Martian Whores!
yeah the excellent karma just magically appeared. nobody reads what i say let alone agrees with me. you need to let it go man. you're gonna break out in hives if you keep this up. btw, you keep calling me kid. how old are you, if you don't mind me asking?
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
lol nice burn, the OP's comment "Might as well have a world's greatest virgin competition..." was really really stupid, why do stupid cmments get shown up first on /.?
I think I was this on NBC Olympics coverage last night.
He had me at 'progressively leverage existing focused materials'
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
So how's the weather up there? is it lonely?
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
He probably bought it on craigslist
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
So do my PDP RT11 TSX RPL skillz get me a call?
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.