Slashdot Mirror


The World's Greatest Competitive Programmer

An anonymous reader writes "Technology Review profiles Petr Mitrichev, who has since 2005 dominated the world of competitive programming, a little known sport where competitors furiously code for five hours in pursuit of glory and cash prizes worth tens of thousands of dollars. Mitrichev now works for Google, and competes only for leisure, but is still ranked number one. Many large tech companies, such as Facebook and Google, now sponsor and pay close attention to competitive coding contests, seeing them as a place to recruit new talent."

26 of 202 comments (clear)

  1. As a Professional Developer... by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a Professional Developer, competitions hurt my ego, so I will come up with scores of excuses on how competitive programming isn't a good measure of one skill. I prefer to keep the illusion that I am the best programmer out there, just because I tend to out perform my peers.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:As a Professional Developer... by Baloroth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a decent measure, but not a great one, since it adds a time-based component. Saying that being the best competitive programmer is a measure of overall skill is like saying the best speed-chess player is the best overall chess player. It simply isn't true (although it could be, it usually isn't), although the speed-chess player is undoubtedly very good.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    2. Re:As a Professional Developer... by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is it an effective metric to rank skill?

      Yes it is maybe not the skills you care about, but it is most assuredly a measure of skill. I could see how having someone on the team that has almost immediate insight into how to solve complex problems would save an entire team time. Doesn't mean the same person is the best choice to sit down and write the enterprise level code to actually implement their insight though.

    3. Re:As a Professional Developer... by SolitaryMan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd say that the biggest problem here is that being good at these competitions does not necessarily mean that one would provide great value for the company and it does not even have much to do with technical skills. In the real world the problems are never well defined, the "scoring" rules are non-existent. Then, there are "people" skills.

      I don't want to diminish this guy's achievement, I know for sure he is a great developer in all other respects, but these competitions measure only one projection of a skill on a specific axis.

      --
      May Peace Prevail On Earth
    4. Re:As a Professional Developer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As a Professional Developer, competitions hurt my ego, so I will come up with scores of excuses on how competitive programming isn't a good measure of one skill. I prefer to keep the illusion that I am the best programmer out there, just because I tend to out perform my peers.

      As a former competitive programmer (ACM/ICPC, TopCoder, UVA, IPSC, you name it) and a long time professional programmer (going on 13 years now) I have to say that I have never seen such a rate of improvement in my programming abilities as the couple of years that I took competitions seriously.

      These improvements included not only coding speed, but also high accuracy under time constraints, the ability to predict and analyze edge cases and weird scenarios, thinking about efficiency in terms of Big-O and implementation specific constants, and a lot more. Not to mention a good working knowledge of a lot of data structures and algorithms most programmers never even hear about, which is a given for any competitive competitive programmer. These traits, I think you agree, are what every good programmer could use.

    5. Re:As a Professional Developer... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Does nobody remember an article on Slashdot a few years back?

      1. The top programmers are 4x as productive as the average one.
      2. There are some problems the top programmers can do the average ones cannot no matter how much time they were given.

      If you don't fall into that category, and you probably know if you do, don't bother.

      Actually the fastest guy would probably benefit from a small audience of programmers pointing out he missed a semicolon or that array is wrong-sized somewhere. This would be obvious to you as such a top programmer.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    6. Re:As a Professional Developer... by vlm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You forgot the most important part from an economic standpoint, maintainability.

      I can squirt out multi line regexes that are not troubleshootable by anyone, not even myself. Very quickly too. Doesn't mean its a good long term idea.

      You know you're in trouble when the fastest way to debug a big mass of regex is to rewrite it from scratch.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    7. Re:As a Professional Developer... by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 4, Funny

      I used to read the alumni magazine USC sends me. About 10 years ago I started an article about some woman who was upholding USC standards yada yada, and she had three patents, fed starving children in Africa, brought ponies to the poor kids in Australia, helped fight an Ebola outbreak in, wherever, Canada or something, and was now starting a tech business, and on and on...

      Turn the page to her photo and details. She's... 26 years old. That was the turning point for me. Well, one of them.I realized I was shit and started hating the world. Some people just have what I call the life force, and I know I don't have it, and no, it's not intended as a SW reference.

      I built an awesome mountain temple this week in Minecraft, though... has an indoor forest... yeah, I suck. :(

    8. Re:As a Professional Developer... by oakgrove · · Score: 5, Interesting

      After writing this, I got on a little bit of a tangent so it isn't all necessarily directed at you, LifeIs0x2A so don't be offended if it seems slightly condescending or obnoxious.

      If you're proficient in practically any language, find a small under 10 person company to work for and it almost doesn't matter what you do they'll think you walk on water. Of course, do a good job out of professional pride if nothing else but in small businesses the IT guy that "makes shit happen" gets a ton of respect. Early in my career I started out at a sports wholesale distributor that wanted to insource their IT stuff. A friend of a friend heard about it and got me the interview. As a hobbyist I was already proficient in Python, Java, and web technology in addition to odds and ends like AutoIt and the ilk. I aced the "interview" which was basically, "Can you do computer stuff?" and got started. There was so much slop that could easily be automated I was like a kid in a candy store. One minute I was writing a custom database front-end that shortened the 20 minutes it took to enter products into the website to about 2 minutes and the next moment I was working on the sales/CMS application the salespeople (when it was finished) started running around with. It was great. It got to the point that the bosses daughter was bringing me home cooked meals to my desk everyday already heated up and ready to go. I'll stop there.

      The point is if Google won't hire you then fuck them. If you have some skills then alpha the fuck up and network. There are plenty of opportunities for the taking.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    9. Re:As a Professional Developer... by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Amen to this. A mega-corp turned me down because my MA is in anthropology despite the fact that my BS is in computer science. Working in a small shop where my tasks for the day may include programming in: C, Python, PHP (ugh), or Perl, doing network troubleshooting, or administering our Linux servers is a lot more fun than 8+ hours of pure programming every day. As always, your mileage may vary. I certainly know a lot of people who are doing just fine working at the same task day in and day out.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    10. Re:As a Professional Developer... by hackula · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Never hire a programmer without sitting them down to write some code. The problems should not be very difficult or specialized. You would not believe how many people I have spent an hour interviewing, was totally sold on, then when they had to write out FizzBuzz it turned out they had absolutely no clue what they were doing. People will flat out lie to you about there experience and many are quite believable due to their memorizing talking points about some language or framework. Testing sucks, but hiring someone woefully unprepared for a position is worse for everyone involved.

  2. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We're talking about coding competitions here, not posting-to-slashdot competitions.

  3. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Heh. Speak for yourself. A friend of mine lost his virginity in Phoenix, at ACM conference, and we were there for the college programming contest. It must have been '94/'95 or something. The organizers were generous, and we ended up at a fancy bar after the closing dinner. We were happy with how we had done, and success + cash is VERY attractive to some women.

    Actually, I think that the whole 'computer nerds have no girlfriends' is a obsolete tropes. The losers in their parents' basement, maybe. But nowadays computer interests translate in employment, responsibility and ultimately financial security... My colleagues have better marriages than my neighbors.

  4. Heard of the slow food movement? by presidenteloco · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They appreciate quality food that takes time to prepare.

    So do I. I don't give a rat's tail what you can come up with in 2 hours. What are you wise enough to come up with in two years?

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    1. Re:Heard of the slow food movement? by oakgrove · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Has anyone ever compiled a report on the longer term noteworthy projects of these competitive programmers? I'd be interested in seeing if there is anything I use regularly or admire would be on the list. If they aren't cut out for that I'd bet they'd make hulluva sys-admins though.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    2. Re:Heard of the slow food movement? by Rev+Saxon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Its actually a lot hard to be a sysadmin than most developers thing...

      --
      I am that much more enlightened and proportionally disillusioned
    3. Re:Heard of the slow food movement? by JMZero · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Mark Zuckerberg competed on TopCoder (though he wasn't terribly committed, and didn't do terribly well) before he was famous. If you follow Slashdot, you'll remember the final Rubik's cube proof - that was done largely by high ranked TopCoders. One of the early developers for Writely was also one of TopCoder's first dominant competitors (snewman). Google is filled with current and former TopCoder competitors - they're doing heavy lifting all over the company, and Google spends tons of time and effort to get more (as do many other companies). I still get calls from companies (particularly high-frequency-trader type companies, but tech in general) fairly often based on my mediocre (and now semi-ancient) TopCoder participation.

      Naturally, though, most programmers (of any sort) are going to be fairly anonymous contributors on larger projects.

      --
      Let's not stir that bag of worms...
  5. Re:LOL by coldfarnorth · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Woah. I'm surprised you can type with that chip on your shoulder. Ease up there . . .

    --
    Lets start refering to The War Against Terror by it's initials. . .
  6. Re:Fast != Good by tomhath · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's like saying it's silly to swim the butterfly because it's more efficient to swim the front crawl, or saying it's silly to not use your hands while playing soccer. It's a competition, you can argue whether it's measuring the right thing or not, but this guy seems to be the best. Why don't you enter one and see how you do?

  7. The World's Greatest Competitive Middle Manager by MyLongNickName · · Score: 5, Funny

    As a manager, our tests are a bit more strenuous reflecting the importance of the synergies of many diverse skills. The dynamic test includes email with a certain threshold of cc’s to disinterested parties. We get bonus points for lunches out and extra points on top of that for lunches paid for by vendors. A second part of the exam includes writing unintelligible memos and unfollowable policies. Tests are administered through the cloud, using value-added third-party vendors. Oh yeah, more bonus points for using management speak words.

    I'm world champion, baby.

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
  8. Detroit Public Schools HS programming teams by logicassasin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I went to high school in Detroit in the late 80's and, believe it or not, there was an official city-wide high school computer programming league much like the high school sports teams. We were given a list of individual tasks and had to write a program in BASIC on IBM XT's and the entire event was timed. Each working program was dropped onto floppy and handed to the judges to execute with their own data sets and we were scored based on time to execute (if it took too long it had to be rewritten) and if it actually worked.

    I led my school's team to 3rd place three years in a row back then. I had often wondered if there were leagues like this in other cities. Not sure if it still exists either but it was great back then.

    --
    Fifty watts per channel, baby cakes.
  9. Re:LOL by oakgrove · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think maybe back before the 80s when you had to be really hard-core to be committed enough not only to own a computer but to actually be willing to put in the effort of being proficient with it on a technical basis, many of the people in that category were probably the stereotypical nerd. These days with the easy availability of hardware and the accessibility of tools, a much more representative cross-section of the population is getting into the game. I'd say at least 2/3 of the successful programmers I know are just common ordinary dudes that while not being overtly alpha like a jock are certainly not what you would associate with the live-at-home basement dweller we all joke about. As a matter of fact most of those basement "nerds" are usually just gamers and enthusiasts that can regale you with the minutia of which sata cable is the best and which graphics card is the most value for the money but would be totally lost without a GUI to click on. And you can forget about them being able to program anything as who has time for that when there's a RAID, MAN!?!

    --
    The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
  10. made the mistake of hiring one once by Surt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Once. Consistently ranked in the top 5% on a lot of these coding competitions. He's really fast. Gets amazing things working in remarkably short time. Unfortunately they're an unmaintainable mess, and tend to be packed with bugs. They work for exactly the cases known at the start (well, sometimes only even most of those), and break as soon as they find a new edge case. We got a very low to possibly negative net productivity out of him.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  11. Re:Privacy issues by Skapare · · Score: 5, Funny

    Maybe not secure, but they developed the site in 21.3 seconds.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  12. Re:Name your price! by RabidReindeer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ROI talks, bullshit walks.

    True ROI includes a lot more than just how fast the code got written. It includes how easy it is to maintain, how reliable it is, and these days, almost invariably how secure it is.

    Beware of bean-counters. Anything that doesn't look like a bean, they ignore.

  13. Sure, coding from scratch... by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yeah, coding something from scratch over a few hours that works and solves a tough problem is impressive.

    What I really want to see is the "coding hurdles", where developers are thrown into a nightmare of an existing project with 100k lines of bad code, and told to implement five new features... now THAT would be something!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley