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Forget 6-Minute Abs: Learn To Code In a Day

whyloginwhysubscribe writes "The usually excellent BBC 'Click' programme has an article on 'Why computer code is the new language to learn' — which features a company in London who offer courses on learning to code in a day. The BBC clip has an interesting interview with a marketing director who, it seems to me, is going to go back and tell his programmers to speed up because otherwise he could do it himself! Decoded.co's testimonials page is particularly funny: 'I really feel like I could talk credibly to a coder, given we can now actually speak the same language.'"

58 of 306 comments (clear)

  1. language != logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Writing code has little to do with "grammar" and more to do with logic. I wonder, how do you teach that in a day?

    1. Re:language != logic by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      Maybe they teach LOGO. That can be learned in a day...

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:language != logic by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Studiously refraining from teaching somebody any of that boosts their confidence in a way that only years, or even decades, of advanced study can hope to equal!

      Incidentally, why doing you programmers just prove that your algorithms will never hang before shipping code? Are you lazy or something?

    3. Re:language != logic by Culture20 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Incidentally, why doing you programmers just prove that your algorithms will never hang before shipping code? Are you lazy or something?

      Few programmers are computer scientists, just as few slashdot users being grammarians.

    4. Re:language != logic by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 4, Funny

      just as few slashdot users being grammarians.

      I fail to see how religion enters into this.

    5. Re:language != logic by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Funny

      I fail to see how religion enters into this.

      Emacs vs vi.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    6. Re:language != logic by amicusNYCL · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's a course in HTML, CSS, and Javascript. Javascript is the only one of the three that is an actual programming language, they aren't teaching people how to program. They're teaching people how those three languages interact to create a web page. It actually seems like a pretty useful course for developers who work in any company that produces online products to send their marketing and sales teams to, so that those teams can at least get a glimpse about how these things work just so that they have a better understanding of what they're asking us to do. Or, so that they have more of an idea of what's possible. The #1 question I'm asked is "is it possible to..." Yes, it's possible, it's always possible, it's a question of time and money. I don't know how many times I have to answer that question before people realize they can just skip straight to the second question ("what does it take to do it"). A class like this may clue them in.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    7. Re:language != logic by kallisti · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think that's a mis-reference to the Halting Problem if so. It's not (always) hard to prove that a given algorithm will terminate. It's just not possible to do it generically, and that doesn't sound like what he was suggesting.

      I think that's a misunderstanding of the Joking Problem. It's not (always) hard to prove that a given post was intended for humorous effect and thus could get away with not being exactly correct.

      It often runs into the Pedant Problem, which is sort of the geek version of code refusing to run if it contains the slightest error.

    8. Re:language != logic by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, it's possible, it's always possible, it's a question of time and money.

      Obviously, you've never had a marketing person ask for something that is so out of the ballpark that it would be an equivalent of solving "strong AI" problems (where you can't give an estimate) - it's not always "possible". The answer to which must be, "We can't do that, but we could do this," where "this" is at least a tractable problem and puts you back in the realm of your question #1.

      --
      That is all.
    9. Re:language != logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Incidentally, why doing you programmers just prove that your algorithms will never hang before shipping code? Are you lazy or something?"

      Not sure if troll or not. If you are troll, color me an fool for biting.

      As someone with formal comp sci training, and onward into graduate degree... let me give you a crude hint. Others can cite specifics if they want. But this is the answer:

      In general, the problem you propose -- if solved, would immediately result in a million dollar reward for solving a millenium problem.

      You could safely turn down this reward -- because you would have to publish your proof in an academic journal.

      You'd probably also immediately get a fields medal and nobel prize.

      A greedy person would take the process/result and encrypt it-- guarded very heavily as a trade secret. In fact, I'm pretty sure I'd try to hire mercs immediately and up front, and go into hiding. You would be able to use this to break virtually all modern encryption algorithms, most random number generators, and create the best compression system theoretically possible. Ever. In the known universe.

      This problem is called solving L-Halt (halting problem). And if such a technique existed, and could be done in "reasonable" time -- such that it collapsed NP hard into NP into P ... it would be a breakthrough that truly redefines the meaning of "epic". The reasonable implications are truly earth shattering.

      There *is* an algorithm to do it (not in reasoanble time or space). Sort of. The process actually grows faster than any computable number. I don't believe the answer is known (deterministically and in general) for any program with more than five instructions.

      It's been an open problem since the 20's, and a decent group of scientists believe a proof of existence or non-existence is impossible. An even larger (possibly majority? Other experts can chip in) group believe if a proof is found, it will be that no such polynomial time algorithm can exist.

      So... let's put it this way:

      For specific pieces of code, such proofs may be done. I'm not an expert in it, but I've studied it very lightly. It's very nearly impossible for all but the most trivial softwares -- specifically, for anything but certain numeric algorithms. And if it isn't impossible... it takes a huge amount of time by hand. There's automated provers, but they are... basically infants.

      The notion of "proof of correctness" is a formalism that would make modern software development practices very nearly impossible. And if it could be done, the costs would be so prohibitive that even hardware design would likely be cheaper -- because even chips don't have the same level of rigor in their analysis.

      Are we lazy? Well frankly yes, a lot of us are lazy. But the proof you ask for... it's the holy grail of computer science.

      And a real computer scientist would know that immediately. A real programmer -- they might dream of it.

    10. Re:language != logic by ewanm89 · · Score: 2

      I was thinking about factorizing the product of two large primes. There are numerous problems in computer science that we can't do with current technology;

    11. Re:language != logic by Nadaka · · Score: 3, Funny

      The answer to that question is: Lets find out.

    12. Re:language != logic by turbidostato · · Score: 3, Informative

      "I was thinking about factorizing the product of two large primes. There are numerous problems in computer science that we can't do with current technology;"

      Excellent point... Against your position. Factorizing large primes it's not only possible but trivial. It's only that it's general case horribly time consuming (thus, expensive). Hence the "don't ask me if it's possible and go directly to the second question".

    13. Re:language != logic by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Funny

      No problem: 50% up front.

      Hey, if you've done 6 impossible things before breakfast ...

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    14. Re:language != logic by Nadaka · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why don't I?

      Because I am not allowed to.

      Time spent forming proofs is not something clients want to actually pay for.

      So if I am caught "wasting time on silly maths", I could get in trouble.

    15. Re:language != logic by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

      You are most certainly at least as clueless about what THEY do as you think they are about what YOU do.

      While this may be true, I also don't go around asking them if it's possible to write a proposal or if it's possible to create a sales presentation or marketing plan. I know what's possible in their jobs, but they see our application that has been built over 4 years with up to 100,000 lines of code, where a programmer built each feature, and they still ask me if it's even possible to change a feature to work a different way. That means they don't understand my job at all. I built the feature from scratch to start with so, yeah, it's possible to change it. It's not just a choice of phrase either, sometimes someone will walk all the way across the office to find me (even though I've got a phone sitting right here), ask me if a certain thing is possible, and walk away.

      Although really the worst thing is when I see people quoting a new feature to a customer which already exists in the application. So not only do they not know what is possible, but they also don't know what the application already does. This class wouldn't fix that.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    16. Re:language != logic by Peristaltic · · Score: 2

      Thank you, Sheldon.

    17. Re:language != logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've had marketing ask me to write a program that selects one of several choices based on a user's needs with no mechanism for the user to enter those needs as input.

      I'd love to hear how that's possible.

    18. Re:language != logic by the_B0fh · · Score: 4, Funny

      You haven't taken the ESP class yet?

    19. Re:language != logic by Kelbear · · Score: 4, Funny

      Marketing's reply: Through the use of social disruptive crowd-sourced adaptive technology that curates and refines user-generated data like never before. Obviously.

    20. Re:language != logic by jc42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, it's possible, it's always possible, it's a question of time and money.

      Obviously, you've never had a marketing person ask for something that is so out of the ballpark that it would be an equivalent of solving "strong AI" problems ...

      Heh. A team I was once on was asked to do a task that provably required an upgrade to the speed of light. It involved the time for getting messages between widely separated places on the planet. The managers couldn't accept that the universe imposes a speed limit on such things. It was clear that they understood this to mean that we weren't smart enough to solve the problem. We on the development team quickly updated our resumes ...

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    21. Re:language != logic by DJRumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, they teach the fundamentals of HTML, CSS and Javascript, not the entire language (or markup as the case may be). Unless someone has perfect recall, and a thorough understanding of coding structures, there is no way you could possibly teach them to code well in an hour.

      You CAN teach someone basic coding fundamentals, some basic structures, and where the index is on their 'coding for dummies' book, but hoping for some to spit out a complex, complete program after an hour of teaching is not realistic in any sense of the word.

      "Hello World" yes. Beyond that? Not so much...

    22. Re:language != logic by scribblej · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Factoring large primes, or any primes, is not only trivial, but fast. Super fast. You meant the products of large primes, I'm sure.

    23. Re:language != logic by youngatheart · · Score: 2

      That code reminds me of... well mine. Sorry about that. Odds are it isn't actually mine, but there have been a few coding sessions where I was a little heavy on the Merlot and %s/originalvariable/whatimeannow/g. Once it runs and looks like the output is good, you sleep. When you revisit your code, generally much later, to fix something minor, you discover that the worst coder in the world has apparently been going through your elegant programs with a randomizer and a blindfold. Touch one thing and suddenly you're cursing that freak with a passion.

      I've got one such project going right now and I think I'm in the third or fourth rewrite attempt since I gave up on fixing past-me's functional but fragile apparent attempt to win an obfuscated coding contest. I mean it looks like it makes sense but I keep running into these functions that don't look like they should be where they are and I have a fuzzy memory of putting them there and why, but when I try to do things the right way I get locked out of my firewall, kill my VPN or crash browsers. (Yes, you guessed it, manipulating iptables dynamically and I am indeed over my head sometimes.) Thankfully it is in what I'd call pre-pre-release state. If I had to maintain this stuff for a client right now, I'd be having a very bad week.

    24. Re:language != logic by Mitchell314 · · Score: 4, Funny

      With tags, what more do you need to know?

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
  2. A little knowledge... by CadentOrange · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... is a dangerous thing! I can just see bosses putting more pressure on coders to "get the job done now!" and then failing to understand why code takes so long to be delivered.

    1. Re:A little knowledge... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, just tell the boss that the dwim feature of your compiler is broken, and you must work around it.

    2. Re:A little knowledge... by knuthin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If coding can be learned in a day, why do we have people who suck so badly at it?

      And if it can be learned in a day, most of the companies are ready to pay 100,000$ per year or more to guys who do it, and involves B16B00B5, I don't know what's stopping the rest of the world from getting rich.

      --
      Some apps are WYSIWYG. Some others are WYSIWTF.
    3. Re:A little knowledge... by iamgnat · · Score: 5, Funny

      If coding can be learned in a day, why do we have people who suck so badly at it?

      Because they learned it in a day?

    4. Re:A little knowledge... by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Fast, cheap, good. Pick any two.

      Problem is many managers pick fast & cheap and then complain when its not good.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    5. Re:A little knowledge... by cpu6502 · · Score: 2

      Yes Mr. Boss I could code an entire program in just one day.
      It just won't work.
      THAT'S the hard part Testing the product & making it work bugfree. Even you know that testing takes a long, long time.

      >>>B16B00B5

      Some of us prefer 5/^\A11B00B5 thank you very much. Like two scoops of vanilla.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    6. Re:A little knowledge... by TheCarp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Meh I could teach you to write basic code in a day. The difference is, nobody hires people because "they know how to write code". Its about being experienced and knwoledgeable.

      I could teach you to drive a car in a day too.... but, being able to drive a car and being an expert, experienced driver are two very very different things. There is a huge difference between "I can step on the gas and make it go, and bring it to a stop" and "I have been in several skids, and am adept at steering out of them" (or rather into them, if you want to split that hair).

      I think they are doing a real disservice to their students if they are really leaving them with the impression that they are going to be competent or even "speak the same language" as someone who has been doing it for years.

      That said, I might believe in either the ability to teach some basic coding in a day or the ability to gain exposure to some concepts and learn to communicate better with coders in a day... but... to become a competent coder? That I would need to see to believe.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    7. Re:A little knowledge... by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 3, Funny

      The one who thinks that, just because it is 2012, all our IT will automagically upgrade itself without the required investments, and that we will leave all our legacy systems because they are "not cool"

      Oh, and the one that the issue will be resolved by arguing with me instead of arguing with the boss of the boss of the boss .... of my boss.

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
    8. Re:A little knowledge... by TheCarp · · Score: 2

      There have been times where we are trying to explain why one person's request will take a day to complete, while another request may take a month. But no matter how much we dumb it down, their eyes still gloss over when we attempt to explain.

      reminds me of a project that went down in flames once.

      I was out of work, a buddy of mine had another guy with a bit more experience than me writting web apps (I am more sysadmin with some coding skills). He had a client lined up, we had gotten through defining some requirements, but my buddy, the less technical more "sales" type, was having so much trouble understanding the complexity.

      We told him, this is a multi-week project, its going to require research, coding, integration etc. We told him he shouldn't be willing to accept anything under 10k, and it really thats on the low side for what they wanted.... should be more for what we are looking at.

      At our next meeting he told us he agreed to do it for 1k, and he knew we could "bang it out in a weekend".

      We both walked away and left him holding the bag he just made for himself.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  3. More accurate title for the training by bjdevil66 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Learn how to really piss off real developers in a day.

  4. "Hello World!!!" by stevegee58 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yay! I'm a coder now!

  5. I can write that code! by khasim · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hire me. Just pay me 10% more than the rest of your team combined but I will deliver the code you need within 24 hours.

    And I only have 2 requirements.

    1. It does not have to work.

    2. I do not have to maintain it.

    WRITING code is easy.

    1. Re:I can write that code! by turbidostato · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Writing good code that solves the problem the business needs solved is what is really hard."

      Correction: getting the business people to know what the heck is the problem they in fact want to solve is the *really* difficult part.

  6. Mandatory Code Monkey quote by ashshy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Code Monkey think maybe manager want to write god damned login page himself
    Code Monkey not say it out loud
    Code Monkey not crazy, just proud

    --
    #o#
    O Moo.
    1. Re:Mandatory Code Monkey quote by Lissajous · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I never learned how to use mod points but +1 for jonathon coulton reference, so true.

      You don't use mod points, you program them. Apparently there's a site that can help you with this.

  7. Excellent comparison with spoken language by vlm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The similarity with spoken language is uncanny.

    Much as I can teach you "beer please?" and "where's the bathroom?" and "my /. UID is lower than yours" in spanish in about a day, I can probably teach you the crudest basics of any programming language in about a day.

    I'm told that learning your 2nd 3rd 4th spoken language gets easier, every time you learn one you learn the next easier. Programming languages are certainly like that.

    Even the epic overconfidence is similar. "I know how to ask for a beer in Spanish, I'm now fully qualified, lets book our flight to Spain!"

    Also the teasing is similar. Sure kid, that "O(n^n^n) algorithm is perfectly scalable, you just roll that right out into production, testing in for wussies anyway" is the computer equivalent of teaching a noob that the foreign equivalent of "nice rack, wanna F" actually translates in English to "thank you"

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    1. Re:Excellent comparison with spoken language by firewrought · · Score: 4, Informative

      The similarity with spoken language is uncanny.

      The similarities go way deeper than that. Mainly, there is a strong isomorphism between how human and computer languages are encoded and interpreted/compiled.

      At the lowest level, a digital "alphabet" must be imposed on this unruly analogue world. Human languages use phonemes (generally a few dozen distinct sounds) while computer languages use a character set (such as ASCII or Unicode). These alphabets are all basically a set of finite, unchanging, and meaningless symbols.

      One level up are morphemes or words and word-parts that are constructed of phonemes. So "dog" is the name/morpheme we assign to the furry thing lifting its leg over your bedroom carpet; "urinate" is the morpheme we assign to its activity; and "ed" is the morpheme that signifies the activity has already completed (as in urinated). In computer languages this is called lexcal analysis, and it happens very early during compilation, usually with the help of regexps. In both cases, this phase transforms the fixed set of phonemes into a large, ever-growing set of meaningful symbols.

      The next level up is syntax, in which a governing grammar (itself consisting of a closed set of abstract categories) is used to parse the morphemes/lexical tokens into tree-like data structures that will subsequently be used to determine relationships between word-units. This is where you start reading Chomsky or the Dragon book and reaching for the Midol. I don't know if it's Chomsky's fault or what, but there's a lot of similar terminology here between the same fields (e.g., syntax, grammar, parsing, production rules), as well as dissimilar terminology for roughly equivalent concepts (e.g., sentence<==>statement, clause<==>expression, paragraph<==>method).

      After that comes semantics (assignment of meaning) and pragmatics (what things mean in context), for which you could find some suggestive connections with compilation (type-checking and processor-specific optimizations, perhaps), but here the easy/clean comparisons start to break down... probably because we still have a very limited understanding of how the human brain works. In both cases, it seems that there has to be a translation from the abstract, extracted idea down into the series of electrical impulses that yield a change in state of the target brain/computer.

      As a completely separate topic, there is an isomorphism (in the sense of the term that Hofstadter uses in GEB) between how both human and computer languages evolve and branch cladistically with time. (And unsurprisingly, there is yet another isomorphism between biological evolution and language evolution.... we live in an endlessly fascinating world.)

      Keep in mind, though, that we are ultimately finding similarities between things that are fundamentally different. Blindly inferring new "truths" about computer languages from human ones (or visa-versa) is a recipe for looking silly.

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    2. Re:Excellent comparison with spoken language by fuzzlost · · Score: 2

      Learning (spoken) languages after your second is easier because learning the second one taught you *how* to learn a language. Programming languages are like that because you learn logic, control, and algorithms. Once you learn the second language (as long as it's sufficiently different from the first), you've learned that different languages have different syntax issues or handle certain cases in different ways, so when you get to your third language, you already know exactly questions you need to ask to be proficient in it.

  8. Mod parent up by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Someone who thinks they can code is far more dangerous than someone who realizes they can't and defers to experts. Pity the devs who'll have to suffer a bad manager going worse because of this!

    1. Re:Mod parent up by Rei · · Score: 4, Funny

      Code monkey think maybe manager wanna write goddamn login page himself.
      Code monkey don't say it out loud.
      Code monkey not crazy, just proud.

      --
      We're practicing our labials.
  9. Here's your response by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Response to your boss:

    Coding is like chess. it's easy to learn, but takes a lifetime to master.

    You can learn the rules of chess in a day, and you can play your first three matches on that same day. It takes a lifetime of study to be any good at chess, to be better than others at chess, or to compete in any way at chess.

    Another way to put it is like guitar, or piano.

    How long does it take to earn money playing guitar? Basic guitar takes about a week of practice, but how long will it take to earn money from playing it?

    As with anything, there are basics as well as subtle, underlying principles. Coding, chess, guitar, piano, or any other refined action takes years of practice, experimentation, and learning to master. About 10,000 hours all told.

    Then ask: "How many hours does it take to become a manager?"

  10. Meanwhile by mwvdlee · · Score: 3, Funny

    Meanwhile, us programmers don't need to take a "Management in 1 day" training. We develop translators: http://www.atrixnet.com/bs-generator.html

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  11. I'd rather go with the 6 minute abs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Then i can just beat a nerd into programming for me.

  12. WARNING: Chess Analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The whole point of the class appears to be able to help people relate to the technicians that run their infrastructure. In the broadcast, the students learn how to use a GPS Java API along with very rudimentary HTML, and CSS. I have done that in a single 2 hour class. That makes them about as qualified to program as this /. post makes me qualified to write a sequel to Lord of the Rings.

    You can teach someone the rules of Chess in a day, yet it takes years to master the game. Programming is the same. I can teach the syntax of HTML, CSS, and basic Java in a day (just like the BBC broadcast depicted), but the student will not know how to properly utilize the logic for years. Good luck with recursion, overloading functions, vulnerability testing, and many other concepts.

  13. This is why most MBAs should be fired by s.petry · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Look, you could sit anyone down in a day and teach them looping and conditional expressions. Most people already understand variables, but you may have to teach them arrays. So what? This does not mean a person knows how to program. What that PHB stated is the equivalent to saying "Because I know the alphabet I can speak any language and write any novel". It's pure idiocy!

    I have seen people come out of 4 years of College for coding and still not know their ass from a hole in the ground. Give them a non Microsoft product for development and they are completely lost. CSV or git, forget it. Distributed make? Maybe, but probably not. Half the time they don't even know how to find includes that are not spoon fed to them. Granted, there are some good ones out there, but mostly we churn out people that are retarded without a GUI to know most of what they need to know to do their job.

    I'm sure that the person making these claims thinks they are all that and a bag of chips, but let him design a real program and see how smart he is. Give him a project that would take a real programmer a week. By the end of the week, you would start hearing the asshole complain about how the systems are all broken, probably even providing faked statistics to show everyone how the compilers are at fault.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  14. Teach yourself programming in... by PostPhil · · Score: 2
  15. Cultural differences? by DaveGod · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I didn't interpret anything in the segment implying that the one-day course is going to turn you into a developer. It seemed very obvious to me that it's an introducer type course - getting the gist over, a starting point for someone considering changing/supplementing careers or to have a vague idea what the developers at their work are doing.

    Perhaps they could have spelt it out over and over again - well they did keep saying "basic" - but it seemed quite obvious to me. That's not to say those interpreting differently are stupid. If the US TV imported over here is any indication, US TV likes to really spells things out - if that's what you're used to then it's quite reasonable to expect it.

    I'm a qualified accountant, I could teach the basics of accountancy in one day. Enough to be an accountant the next day? No. Enough to help someone decide if it might be a career for them? Yes. Enough to enable a manager to make good use of reporting? Yes. Enough for a manager to broadly understand what their accounting staff are doing and why they cannot have the accounts "Monday"? Yes.

  16. No, No, No, You've Got It All Wrong by jeko · · Score: 4, Funny

    "learn ... in ten easy minutes

    Screw learning. With my new Sarah Palin Voyage of Self-Discovery and the Christian Buddha, you'll discover that you always knew the answers in your heart all along. Trying to become some so-called "expert" by doing things like "studying" just makes you an elite egghead who gets all wishy-washy when it comes to the truthiness of anything.

    You already know the answer, and you know that you do! Don't let those gosh-darned experts tell you any different!

    Act now, and we'll bonus you with the Anthony Robbins method "Solve Any Problem in Three Easy Steps!"

    Step One: It's not a problem. It's a challenge!
    Step Two: You can Always Decide to Meet That Challenge!
    Step Three: Once you Decide to Meet that Challenge, It's Been Met! Problem Solved with nothing more than the Power of your Mind!

    --
    He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
    1. Re:No, No, No, You've Got It All Wrong by Peristaltic · · Score: 2

      I laughed out loud at this until it hit me how many people probably roll through life this way.

  17. dont know what you're talking about. by nimbius · · Score: 2

    In each interview im very frank with the PHB about my skill level. Ive coded infinite loops that execute in milliseconds and are written in under a week. These days whenever a big project comes around, the boss just nods and says "Wally's on it!"

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  18. Asking the wrong question. by willy_me · · Score: 2

    As a developer, I find it important to ask the question "Why?". Tasks are performed to solve problems. Those who contract out tasks (the employer) understand the problem but typically lack the expert knowledge required to devise the best possible solution. The employer can devise a solution, break it into tasks, and contract out those tasks; but results are typically less then optimal.

    What developers should to is to try to understand the underlying problem so their expert knowledge can assist in designing an optimal solution. So when one is asked "Can you do this?" they should reply with "Probably, but why is it required?". Depending on the answer the correct response will probably be along the lines of "Yes, but there is a better way to solve that problem".

    For example, a person might go into a store and ask a clerk for an iPad. A good clerk would politely ask why they want an iPad. If the customer was looking for a highly mobile device for reasons .... then a 7" Android tablet might be better. In this example the customer lacks expert knowledge regarding tablet devices and their proposed solution was less then optimal. By understanding the underlying problem, the clerk is able to recommend the most appropriate device. It is the same for developers - take the time to understand the problem if you want the customer to be happy.

    1. Re:Asking the wrong question. by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 2

      For example, a person might go into a store and ask a clerk for an iPad. A good clerk would politely ask why they want an iPad. If the customer was looking for a highly mobile device for reasons .... then a 7" Android tablet might be better. In this example the customer lacks expert knowledge regarding tablet devices and their proposed solution was less then optimal. By understanding the underlying problem, the clerk is able to recommend the most appropriate device. It is the same for developers - take the time to understand the problem if you want the customer to be happy.

      The last thing I want when going into a store to make a purchase is some dillwad sales clerk second guessing my researched decision.

      I agree that you need to find out why people are asking for what they're asking. I just hate dillwad sales clerks.

      As a developer, I've learned that it's a large part of my job to educate project stakeholders on what is possible and practical, as well as to do what they ask. The most successful projects are ones where the stakeholders explain the entire process to me and we work together to come up with a good solution. The worst ones are when a stakeholder comes to me with an inflexible pre-conceived notion of what needs to be done. Most of the time, these projects take too long and they never work as well as the principles envisioned.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
    2. Re:Asking the wrong question. by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 2

      Wouldn't you be playing the part of the dillwad sales clerk when you educate stakeholders? And wouldn't you also be the one with the inflexible pre-conceived notion when you enter the store with what you call a researched decision?

      You may think no, there's a difference. But that's only from your perspective.