eBay Bans the Sale of Spells and Magic Items

Starting in September bidders won't be able to snipe curses, spells, or potions on eBay anymore. The company has decided to ban the sale of magic and magic items. “EBay regularly reviews categories and updates our policies based on customer feedback,” a statement from the company read. “We are discontinuing a small number of categories within the larger metaphysical subcategory, as buyers and sellers have told us that transactions in these categories often result in issues that can be difficult to resolve.”

Comments

Does this also include

[daveschroeder]

Judeo-Christian prayers, sayings, incantations, blessings, and similar?

From TFA:

“Ebay bans alternative religious items.But! Not for Christians. Holy water and other sundry ‘holy’ items are discriminately allowed. Hm. Let me get this straight. Some guy in Rome wearing long robes can wave his hand over some water and imbue it with something, and then it’s very ‘powerful?’ How is that different fromany other magical item previously sold on ebay?”

Re:Does this also include

[jasper160]

Holy water is still for sale http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blessed-Holy-Water-4-fl-oz-118ml-/110919177479?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d34c5507

Re:Does this also include

[Desler]

When it comes to hiring practices, yes. There is nothing illegal about eBay limiting what things it wants people selling on its property.

Re:Does this also include

[Desler]

This just in: businesses have control of what actions they will allow others to do on their property.

Re:Does this also include

[Baloroth]

Holy water, et alia have no form of guaranteed effect or power whatsoever. None. Any religious-affiliated individual who makes such a claim should be reported to his/her superior, if they have one, and if they don't, should probably be ignored. A magic spell that "make your partner desire you with lust & pasion.only you . spell" 9sic] is, I would say, slightly more assuring of a definite effect. Which, given it won't work, is most likely the source of the problem for eBay. They don't care if you offer a blessed item that is simply "blessed", with no promise of some particular effect.

Re:Does this also include

[Anonymous Coward]

From my understanding as a Roman Catholic, holy water is not "very powerful" in a physical sense. From the olde Baltimore Catechism:
Question: What is holy water?
Answer: Holy water is water blessed by the priest with solemn prayer to beg God's blessing on those who use it, and protection from the powers of darkness.

And I think that most of the other Catholic prayers etc. would follow the same idea. Mainly: we petition God, he does what he wants. (i.e. results not guaranteed) So I doubt there is quite as much trouble as from selling a hex that is purported to make your enemy's nose turn green.

Also, if you really wanted it, holy water can be obtained from pretty much any church for free. (it's harder to find during lent though). There was a big spat in the 1500's about the church selling indulgences which people thought were tickets to heaven (one of the reasons for the protestant church being founded). We don't do that anymore. In fact, I would be very suspicious of any 'imbued' religious items sold over ebay. All you need to do is take your rosary etc. to a priest to have it blessed. The pope's blessing isn't anything special aside from his position in the church hierarchy. Some people may prefer papally blessed items for sentimental reasons though.

TL;DR? can't speak for the other christian sects, but "holy" Catholic items on ebay have no guarantee and can usually be obtained more easily.

Re:Does this also include

[plover]

What part of "starting in September" was unclear to you?

Re:Does this also include

[theweakend]

So if my holy water, I bought from ebay, doesn't burn Dick Cheney when I pour it on him then I can get a refund? Sorry that was waaaay out there...

Re:Does this also include

[cpu6502]

This just in: Doesn't mean we have to be quiet with our complaints.

Ebay has long deserved the hate speech it receives online. Such as forbidding negative feedback for buyers that rip-off the seller via nonpayment of goods, keeping the new shoes but returning old/wornout shoes, claiming nonreceipt of item when they have it in their hand, et cetera. (No neg feedback == No way to warn other sellers to stay away from the buying scam artist.)

Re:Does this also include

[bill_mcgonigle]

Some guy in Rome wearing long robes can wave his hand over some water and imbue it with something

The beauty of holy water is that a drop of holy water in a bucket makes the whole bucket holy water. There's no concentration limit, so you can manufacture this stuff all day long.

I seem to recall dropping some holy water into the Atlantic when I was a kid, so by the hydrological cycle, odds are your tap water qualifies by now too. Actually I don't know what happens to the holiness during phase changes - perhaps somebody who paid attention to Chatechism could elucidate.

Re:Does this also include

[LoyalOpposition]

Because the Christian Lobby (both political and economic) is really powerful in the US...

I'm not sure what you're saying about the Lobby, but according to Wikipedia 79.5% of the US is Christian. I would expect that any democratic republic would reflect the wishes and desires of four-fifths of its population--unless something like Apartheid was going on, but I understand Apartheid is frowned upon.

...and has a serious persecution complex...

I haven't seen that in the churches where I've attended. In fact, it's much more likely that prayers will be offered thanking God for the freedom to worship as we please rather than to ask for relief from oppression.

~Loyal

Re:Does this also include

[sjames]

Or they agreed with a customer and processed a refund on bogus curses only to have the whole department overrun with malaria carrying mosquitoes.

Re:Does this also include

[Nadaka]

Holy water is a tangible item that can at least can delivered, even if its supposed quality can not be proven.

A hex or prayer can not be shown to be delivered, leading to a higher rate of contested payments.

Re:Does this also include

[0racle]

Holy water is a tangible item that can at least can delivered, even if its supposed quality can not be proven. A hex or prayer can not be shown to be delivered, leading to a higher rate of contested payments.

Bingo. This needs to be rated up well above the other people trying to make this to be some conspiracy.

Holy Water: Ordered a vial of water, get a vial of water
Order a Spell: Receive a piece of paper saying it was cast.

Can people really not see why EBay would treat these differently?

Re:Does this also include

[Applekid]

Holy water is a tangible item that can at least can delivered, even if its supposed quality can not be proven.

A hex or prayer can not be shown to be delivered, leading to a higher rate of contested payments.

Bingo. This needs to be rated up well above the other people trying to make this to be some conspiracy.

Holy Water: Ordered a vial of water, get a vial of water

Order a Spell: Receive a piece of paper saying it was cast.

Can people really not see why EBay would treat these differently?

What if the sellers were sending a video of themselves casting the spell, in whatever ritual/dance it required? Maybe a built in "hi reddit!" style sign to ensure they're not using the same video over and over.

I don't know who Ebay's got working for them, but it seems to me that if spiritual issues cause so many problems during disputes, shouldn't they just disallow disputes and put disclaimers on those pages? That way you can keep the believers, collect commissions, and wash your hands of the metaphysical. No hate or line drawing required.

Re:Does this also include

[wierd_w]

What about japanese prayer scrolls, and spell papers?

Those are physical items, and actually quite intricate in their designs. Much more interesting aesthetically than a tobasco bottle filled with water.

Re:Does this also include

[geekoid]

Actual, When you sell holy water, you are selling water with a spell cast on it. If you can't prove the spell was cast, what's the difference?

Re:Does this also include

[geekoid]

Yes, it does claim effect and power:
Wikipedia:
"holy water is water which has been sanctified by a priest or bishop for the purpose of baptism, the blessing of persons, places, and objects; or as a means of repelling evil."

Catholic church:
"In this context Catholics distinguish sacraments from ‘sacramentals’. In the strict sense, sacramentals are signs, instituted by the Church and rooted in the baptismal priesthood of all believers. They always include a prayer, often accompanied by a gesture such as the laying-on of hands, the sign of the cross or sprinkling with holy water. Sacramentals do not confer the grace of the Holy Spirit in the same way as sacraments, but by the Church’s prayer they are intended to help prepare believers to receive and cooperate with God’s free gift of grace. Sacramentals include blessings of people and things. Certain blessings consecrate people to God in a special way, or reserve objects and places for sacred use. “Every baptised person is called to be ‘a blessing’, and to bless."

" A magic spell that "lets you repel evil" is, I would say, slightly more assuring of a definite effect. "
The only difference is you are more used to one then the other.

Re:Does this also include

[cffrost]

Actual, When you sell holy water, you are selling water with a spell cast on it. If you can't prove the spell was cast, what's the difference?

Feed some to a vampire bat. If bat doesn't succumb to rapid phase change, shit is fake.

Re:Does this also include

[TheCarp]

> " A magic spell that "lets you repel evil" is, I would say, slightly
> more assuring of a definite effect. "
> The only difference is you are more used to one then the other.

That's not the only difference, there is also the wording here, at least in these examples. Their claims are so general as to be meaningless. What does it mean to 'repel evil'? Its so open to interpretation. Hell you could be killed, while tossing the holy water in the face of your serial rapist murder, and I could still spin that.

However, if you claim someone is going to fall madly in lust with me... aside from any ethical issues that may develop from how it may be administered (lets assume not, I drink it myself and it does its magic....keep it simple) well... I may miss the odd signal or two, but if the claim is someones love, or powerful lust... I may not be able to objectively prove it didn't work as intended, but, I definitely have some expectations (you know, assuming I...heh... believed in magic)

In the end, I agree, it really is the same thing... but I can see why they get less complaints. Its much easier to feel good about your purchase when its not making overly specific claims, which is clearly why they got the pass.

Really, the Christians are not new. They have been at this selling dreams game a long time and they are good at it...and THAT is the other real difference.

I bet you the creative ones will find their way back onto ebay, and will refine their game a little too....so they don't piss off ebay.

Re:Does this also include

[Man Eating Duck]

As a mineral collector, one of the things that has irked me is constantly running into auctions for crystals that are supposed to "do" something: increase your libido, etc. For example:

Yeah, I have even gotten some incredible samples (a sunstone, a moonstone and a tourmaline crystal, to be exact) from a guy who was respected by the geologic communtiy in the country, as he regularly provided samples that were extremely valuable (Sadly, he died prematurely without revealing his locations. While living, he provided a steady supply). He claimed that the samples I got had healing properties, which obviously must be correct since my health and physical state since I got them are (is? Sig) way above average. Apart from that he was a brilliant collector, whose knowledge in some areas surpassed the "serious" mineralogists in the country. Sometimes I wonder about how delusions work :)

Re:Does this also include

[Khyber]

" People contact me through email & demand a 25% or 50% discount or else they will neg me. (I have no choice but to give in because I can't neg them back. They are holding the weapon and I have nothing.)"

Then call the police and have fucking blackmail/extortion charges filed against them after you obtain a reliable address, you fucking moron.

Well there goes my plan

[royallthefourth]

to sell magic brownies on Ebay

Re:Well there goes my plan

[ackthpt]

to sell magic brownies on Ebay

To say nothing of Magic Mushrooms

Or little tea cakes with the lettering EAT ME on them

Re:Well there goes my plan

[Pope]

Try Etsy.

Re:But i need mana!!!

[queazocotal]

'Buyers husband was already a toad, therefore he was unchanged'

A curse upon them!

[ackthpt]

So they may know the sufferings endured by their customers, may a great lamentable curse be upon them!

Not like using ebay isn't some kind of curse, from both buyer and seller perspective .. every try to get online help from these goofballs? Have a lot of spare time to kill.

Could be a problem

[Tapewolf]

Does this also include oxygen-free cables and that CD that's supposed to re-tune your speakers?

Re:Could be a problem

[ackthpt]

Does this also include oxygen-free cables and that CD that's supposed to re-tune your speakers?

Sounds to me like any sufficiently advanced technology will now be banned as they are indistinguishable from magic.

You're telling me!

[Quiet_Desperation]

transactions in these categories often result in issues that can be difficult to resolve.

I have to sand down these horns every morning, and the seller keeps giving me the run around about the antidote and seapony tear scarcity.

Expeto Viagrus potion? My shiny metal ass!

Seriously, it's metal now.

Re:You're telling me!

[somaTh]

I got a bait and switch. Love Potion #9 turned out to be a mis-type. Now all these stupid pigeons won't leave me alone.

Complaints

[Anonymous Coward]

The issue for eBay is complaints. They don't really care otherwise and they're not really interested in fairness or equality or any other bogey men you might wish to throw up. Here's how it goes:

People buy magic, spells, potions, what have you and when it doesn't work, they dispute the purchase and complain to eBay. This increases eBay's administrative overhead significantly for stuff that, we'll all agree, is ridiculous.

Meanwhile, Christians purchase holy water or whatever. But, when it doesn't work, they say that it was God's will. Or God has his reasons for my magic water not working and they do NOT complain to eBay. Making these transactions nothing but a profit center for eBay.

Re:Complaints

[sjames]

Well there you have it! It's curing pestilence one fly at a time.

Re:Complaints

[Intropy]

Generally holy water isn't supposed to be "magic" or anything. It's sanctified. What does sanctification confer on the water? Not a blessed thing. It's a symbolic act meant to convey solemnity or respect for participants (as in someone being baptized) and God. Selling items that claim to be magic is not wrong because magic is evil or because the religious beliefs of people who want the items are bad. It's wrong because the item does not do the thing it claims to be able to do, which is just plain false advertising. Holy water really is sanctified and that's the only claim. If some specific item is put up claiming to be holy water and to do X, Y, and Z, which it clearly doesn't, then that would warrant a takedown. Holy water being a religious item does not.

Re:Complaints

[Hatta]

What if I get the holy water and find out that it hasn't been properly sanctified? Should I get my money back?

Re:Complaints

[pluther]

No. He's saying if 10,000 people buy holy water off of eBay and 5,000 of them complain that it wasn't holy enough, they'll ban Christian items too...

Re:Complaints

[Vintermann]

Sure, if it turns out hasn't been blessed by a catholic priest. That doesn't seem likely, but it could happen (e.g. if the seller boasts elsewhere of not getting it blessed).

It's much the same as selling non-kosher meat as kosher. Or selling a sketch you've drawn yourself, saying it was drawn by Munch. If it turns out the item wasn't made as advertised (and "make" in this sense includes tapping water into a bottle) then the customer has a legitimate complaint, even if you think it's completely silly to care whether a sketch you like was really drawn by Munch / a priest really said a blessing over that bottle of water.

Re:Complaints

[oldmac31310]

Why is everyone talking about selling holy water? Last time I paid attention it was free.

Re:Complaints

[oldmac31310]

Actually no, you are wrong. There are plenty of superstitious Catholics that believe holy water has near magical properties - for healing etc. Especially if the water comes from a particularly 'holy' spring. Of course it is all superstitious bullshit, but there are millions that believe in the magical powers of holy water even nowadays. And of course it is really a pre-christian foible going back to the stone age where sun, moon, water, earth were venerated and worshiped as if imbued with spirits. The Christian church merely adopted the associated practices as they were unable to stop the 'faithful' going ahead and doing what they always did.

Re:Complaints

[Zan Lynx]

Are you claiming that holy water blessed by a level 10 Cleric is the same as that blessed by a level 1 Cleric?

Well, you're right. It's a level 1 divine spell with no level modifiers.

Re:What's left?

[ackthpt]

First they ban used underwear and now I can't even buy magic spells? Sheesh. It seems like there's nothing left on eBay worth bidding on.

Yeah, you can't even sell your spare body parts anymore. What's the world coming to?

But you are free to sell all the grilled cheese sandwhiches depicting Jesus or the apostles your heart desires (gette thee the compleat sette nowe!)

Re:But i need mana!!!

[Moheeheeko]

"love 'potion' made target break out in hives and convulse. 0/10 would not buy again"

Sparlock the Warrior Wizard

[tepples]

Did any of this have anything to do with threats of a boycott by Jehovah's Witnesses who took the Watchtower's anti-magic propaganda seriously?

Instead of bobcat,

[Arancaytar]

potion turned me into newt. Would not buy again.

Re:Instead of bobcat,

[VortexCortex]

A Newt?

Re:Instead of bobcat,

[mortonda]

He got better

Re:What's left?

[characterZer0]

Have they banned providing free shipping and using used underwear and magic spells as packaging?

Just about complaints and reversed transactions

[Tridus]

This is really about the number of complaints on these types of auctions, nothing more. People who scream discrimination are wrong.

The problem with bidding on an intangible item is a simple matter of delivery. If I pay you to cast a spell over eBay, did you do it? How do I know? If what I want didn't happen, I can blame you and just use buyer protection to get my money back.

Tangible goods are still largely acceptable (magic potions seem to be an exception). Which is why holy water is alright - it's a physical thing that doesn't promise to do anything in particular.

Re:Just about complaints and reversed transactions

[silas_moeckel]

If I sell ya a vial as something that I say a catholic priest blessed into holy water and a catholic priest did do so it's pretty straight forward I can prove the action was done. I can not prove that it is anything more than water some guy from some organization did something to. Most of your less prominent religions etc don't have a sanctioning body to fall back on.

I predict a protest...

[ItsJustAPseudonym]

...by Kentucky lawmakers.

Re:Unusual

[mortonda]

You must be new here.

Indulgences

[Stargoat]

There goes my plan to sell indulgences. I was looking forward to being able to forgive sins by proxy. There is a long tradition in western culture of fiscal forgiveness. I fail to see why E-Bay gets to decide what is right or wrong. They nailed a 95 Theses into the door of my plans for material success.

And I am firmly of the opinion that black indulgences is an underdeveloped market. Why limit yourself to merely helping people? With a black, or anti-indulgence, you can take the battle to your enemies. Surely, he who laughs last laughs best, and what could be better than to see your foe's unshrivened soul burning with sins he didn't even know he possessed.

Re:now what?

[ackthpt]

Damnit! Now what am I going to do with these scrolls of Firebolt? I already bought the book!

Drop them off at either political party headquarter, they'll come in handy during the Fall debates and you can write them off on your taxes (I've yet to see the IRS prevent me writing off donations of magical items.)

Jeasy-peasy!

[denzacar]

Holy water failed to exorcise demons from possessed. Would not buy again.