eBay Bans the Sale of Spells and Magic Items

Starting in September bidders won't be able to snipe curses, spells, or potions on eBay anymore. The company has decided to ban the sale of magic and magic items. “EBay regularly reviews categories and updates our policies based on customer feedback,” a statement from the company read. “We are discontinuing a small number of categories within the larger metaphysical subcategory, as buyers and sellers have told us that transactions in these categories often result in issues that can be difficult to resolve.”

Comments

Does this also include

[daveschroeder]

Judeo-Christian prayers, sayings, incantations, blessings, and similar?

From TFA:

“Ebay bans alternative religious items.But! Not for Christians. Holy water and other sundry ‘holy’ items are discriminately allowed. Hm. Let me get this straight. Some guy in Rome wearing long robes can wave his hand over some water and imbue it with something, and then it’s very ‘powerful?’ How is that different fromany other magical item previously sold on ebay?”

Re:Does this also include

[jasper160]

Holy water is still for sale http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blessed-Holy-Water-4-fl-oz-118ml-/110919177479?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d34c5507

Re:Does this also include

[ackthpt]

Holy water is still for sale http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blessed-Holy-Water-4-fl-oz-118ml-/110919177479?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d34c5507

Sounds like a case of "who backs up your magic?"

Re:Does this also include

[NettiWelho]

Can corporations be sued for religulous discrimination in US?

Re:Does this also include

[Desler]

When it comes to hiring practices, yes. There is nothing illegal about eBay limiting what things it wants people selling on its property.

Re:Does this also include

[theweakend]

Just start reporting them then *shrug*

Re:Does this also include

[Desler]

This just in: businesses have control of what actions they will allow others to do on their property.

Re:Does this also include

[Baloroth]

Holy water, et alia have no form of guaranteed effect or power whatsoever. None. Any religious-affiliated individual who makes such a claim should be reported to his/her superior, if they have one, and if they don't, should probably be ignored. A magic spell that "make your partner desire you with lust & pasion.only you . spell" 9sic] is, I would say, slightly more assuring of a definite effect. Which, given it won't work, is most likely the source of the problem for eBay. They don't care if you offer a blessed item that is simply "blessed", with no promise of some particular effect.

Re:Does this also include

[ackthpt]

Just start reporting them then *shrug*

"As seller claims this Crickett Bat is fully capable of whacking Zombies, as Zombies are creatures of magic (alternatively: Magyk, of Magical Enchantment, Spellbound or upon retainer to dark and nefarious fiend(s)) they are therefore out of compliance with eBay policy and this item has been withdrawn."

Re:Does this also include

[jythie]

Because the Christian Lobby (both political and economic) is really powerful in the US and has a serious persecution complex, while minority religions can not do much to impact your business.

I have seen this happen a couple times.. some group notices that a site has support for non-christian values and throws a hissy fit, then the site does the math and decides it is less trouble to get rid of what the people do not like... mostly because these groups claim to speak for 'Christians' even though their outrage tends to only represent a small percent of the community.. still, the company is often not willing to take the chance.

Re:Does this also include

[TheGratefulNet]

Sounds like a case of "who backs up your magic?"

well, up to a week or so ago, it would have been demonoid...

Re:Does this also include

[Twinbee]

I don't think they're doing it out of principle (not that I would mind), but just to prevent the various sale disputes they seem to be having.

Also, people would know immediately if the spells etc.work or not, while holy water would have more of a placebo "it might have worked" effect.

Re:Does this also include

[Anonymous Coward]

From my understanding as a Roman Catholic, holy water is not "very powerful" in a physical sense. From the olde Baltimore Catechism:
Question: What is holy water?
Answer: Holy water is water blessed by the priest with solemn prayer to beg God's blessing on those who use it, and protection from the powers of darkness.

And I think that most of the other Catholic prayers etc. would follow the same idea. Mainly: we petition God, he does what he wants. (i.e. results not guaranteed) So I doubt there is quite as much trouble as from selling a hex that is purported to make your enemy's nose turn green.

Also, if you really wanted it, holy water can be obtained from pretty much any church for free. (it's harder to find during lent though). There was a big spat in the 1500's about the church selling indulgences which people thought were tickets to heaven (one of the reasons for the protestant church being founded). We don't do that anymore. In fact, I would be very suspicious of any 'imbued' religious items sold over ebay. All you need to do is take your rosary etc. to a priest to have it blessed. The pope's blessing isn't anything special aside from his position in the church hierarchy. Some people may prefer papally blessed items for sentimental reasons though.

TL;DR? can't speak for the other christian sects, but "holy" Catholic items on ebay have no guarantee and can usually be obtained more easily.

Re:Does this also include

[ackthpt]

Slash dot needs to go away, its a hateful site.

How about you go away instead? Less to move that way.

Yes, this is a fun site! Where else can we gather to make sport of crazy corporate dictums?

Next they'll ban the sale of slashdot mod points, the bastards!

Re:Does this also include

[Desler]

Except that wasn't the problem. eBay didn't want the headache of sorting out disputes for this category of items that they apparently don't have for mainstream religious items. If the selling of holy water caused numerous disputes and caused them a lot of support time they'd ban those sales, too.

Re:Does this also include

[Yvanhoe]

How can this be legal? Isn't that religious discrimination? Is it authorized in US?

Re:Does this also include

[plover]

What part of "starting in September" was unclear to you?

Re:Does this also include

[kurzweilfreak]

They're totally forgetting about apocalyptic virus-zombies though! What bullshit!

Re:Does this also include

[theweakend]

So if my holy water, I bought from ebay, doesn't burn Dick Cheney when I pour it on him then I can get a refund? Sorry that was waaaay out there...

Re:Does this also include

[Joce640k]

Which part of "Starting in September" didn't you understand?

Re:Does this also include

[sjames]

The URL doesn't say who blessed it. It does say iot is sold as a curio only with no warranted claims of special power. It's also not September yet

To be fair, eBay seems to include prayers as well, I see no Christian exception.

Re:Does this also include

[ackthpt]

Sounds like a case of "who backs up your magic?"

well, up to a week or so ago, it would have been demonoid...

I'm curious how this will impact items from Co$ for sale, such as LRH autographed e-meters and such.

Re:Does this also include

[cpu6502]

This just in: Doesn't mean we have to be quiet with our complaints.

Ebay has long deserved the hate speech it receives online. Such as forbidding negative feedback for buyers that rip-off the seller via nonpayment of goods, keeping the new shoes but returning old/wornout shoes, claiming nonreceipt of item when they have it in their hand, et cetera. (No neg feedback == No way to warn other sellers to stay away from the buying scam artist.)

Re:Does this also include

[ackthpt]

What part of "starting in September" was unclear to you?

S'cuse mi, I havve onlye two wijks to clen out the dun^H^H^Hcellar. See my lystyngs for Homonculi!

Re:Does this also include

[bill_mcgonigle]

Some guy in Rome wearing long robes can wave his hand over some water and imbue it with something

The beauty of holy water is that a drop of holy water in a bucket makes the whole bucket holy water. There's no concentration limit, so you can manufacture this stuff all day long.

I seem to recall dropping some holy water into the Atlantic when I was a kid, so by the hydrological cycle, odds are your tap water qualifies by now too. Actually I don't know what happens to the holiness during phase changes - perhaps somebody who paid attention to Chatechism could elucidate.

Re:Does this also include

[sl4shd0rk]

How is that different fromany other magical item previously sold on ebay?â

I see what you're trying to do there but holy water isn't "Magic" and I don't recall ever hearing anyone say it is. It's symbolic. A "Magic" potion, curse or hex being sold under the premise it will perform something "magical" is going to be subject to intense scrutiny when it just doesn't do what it said it was supposed to do. When Ebay has to reimburse the people when the "magic" doesn't work costs them, apparently, quite a bit of cash. Otherwise they wouldn't be turning down the business.

Re:Does this also include

[LoyalOpposition]

Because the Christian Lobby (both political and economic) is really powerful in the US...

I'm not sure what you're saying about the Lobby, but according to Wikipedia 79.5% of the US is Christian. I would expect that any democratic republic would reflect the wishes and desires of four-fifths of its population--unless something like Apartheid was going on, but I understand Apartheid is frowned upon.

...and has a serious persecution complex...

I haven't seen that in the churches where I've attended. In fact, it's much more likely that prayers will be offered thanking God for the freedom to worship as we please rather than to ask for relief from oppression.

~Loyal

Re:Does this also include

[sjames]

Or they agreed with a customer and processed a refund on bogus curses only to have the whole department overrun with malaria carrying mosquitoes.

Re:Does this also include

[jellomizer]

Besides popular vampire books and whatnot... Holy water is just water that is considered by some to be Holy. There isn't any promise that it will cure you, or if you drink it it will cure cancer, it may quench your thirst.

In contrast Magic Items, Often come with a saying that it will do something, that is measurable.

Holy Water, Apply to self, as a sign of being purifying yourself in the eyes of God.
vs.
VooDoo Doll, put pins in areas to make enemy suffer.

Holy Water. There isn't any measurable result, the fact that God see you as purified or not is outside of the natural world and cannot be measured.
VooDoo Doll. You can measure your enemies current level of suffering and see if there is a correlation of increased suffering in areas where the pin is placed.

Re:Does this also include

[fm6]

Allowing holy water (which any priest can create BTW) doesn't represent a pro-Christian bias, it represents allowing tangible items. They also allow pagan items like amulets. Banning sale of spells is akin to banning sale of prayers to a Christian saint.

Re:Does this also include

[XeroSine]

My personal favorite, the "electric supercharger" for your car(I'm an ASE certified parts specialist, the sheer stupidity of people buying this product is laughable, even more-so the fact that people tell me their car is supercharged and i open the hood to see a little computer fan in their air intake). So why have those not been taken offline yet? I'm not against a company doing what it does but if your going to be anal about one thing be anal about ALL of it.

Re:Does this also include

[Nadaka]

Holy water is a tangible item that can at least can delivered, even if its supposed quality can not be proven.

A hex or prayer can not be shown to be delivered, leading to a higher rate of contested payments.

Re:Does this also include

[Anonymous Coward]

I was in Israel recently and visited the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (I'm an athiest; it was a curiosity thing). In the front hall is a slab of stone where supposedly Christ was prepared for burial after the crucifixion. There were people there wailing, and sobbing, and kissing and clutching the slab, and there were others who would show up with a whole shopping bag of trinkets. They would place a trinket on the slab, take a picture, place another trinket on the slab take a picture. And I was thinking to myself, 'Yup, Ebay.'

Re:Does this also include

[0racle]

Holy water is a tangible item that can at least can delivered, even if its supposed quality can not be proven. A hex or prayer can not be shown to be delivered, leading to a higher rate of contested payments.

Bingo. This needs to be rated up well above the other people trying to make this to be some conspiracy.

Holy Water: Ordered a vial of water, get a vial of water
Order a Spell: Receive a piece of paper saying it was cast.

Can people really not see why EBay would treat these differently?

Re:Does this also include

[Anonymous Coward]

(No neg feedback == No way to warn other sellers to stay away from the buying scam artist.)

I feel your pain, but it is also quite easy to create a new account on eBay. Sellers may care about losing a built-up feedback reputation, but there is nothing particularly odd about a new or zero-rating buyer account.

Re:Does this also include

[slippyblade]

I haven't seen that in the churches where I've attended. In fact, it's much more likely that prayers will be offered thanking God for the freedom to worship as we please rather than to ask for relief from oppression.

Really? Have you not seen a single republican on the TV? Everywhere you turn some christian nutjob is screaming about the "War on Religion". Seems to me that the "religious right" LOVES to berate and belittle every belief, nonbelief, and outlook that isn't theirs and the second anybody points this out it's suddenly a war on religion.

Re:Does this also include

[Applekid]

Holy water is a tangible item that can at least can delivered, even if its supposed quality can not be proven.

A hex or prayer can not be shown to be delivered, leading to a higher rate of contested payments.

Bingo. This needs to be rated up well above the other people trying to make this to be some conspiracy.

Holy Water: Ordered a vial of water, get a vial of water

Order a Spell: Receive a piece of paper saying it was cast.

Can people really not see why EBay would treat these differently?

What if the sellers were sending a video of themselves casting the spell, in whatever ritual/dance it required? Maybe a built in "hi reddit!" style sign to ensure they're not using the same video over and over.

I don't know who Ebay's got working for them, but it seems to me that if spiritual issues cause so many problems during disputes, shouldn't they just disallow disputes and put disclaimers on those pages? That way you can keep the believers, collect commissions, and wash your hands of the metaphysical. No hate or line drawing required.

Re:Does this also include

[Vintermann]

You know, I'm all for the 2d20 damage against undead stuff, but it would be nice if people got their ideas about holy water from what catholics actually believe instead. Holy water has no non-ritual significance, no special properties are claimed for it.

Re:Does this also include

[bws111]

Of course it is legal. They aren't discriminating against people based on their religion, they are just setting limits on what they sell in their store. Nobody (regardless of their religion) can sell a spell. Anyone (regardless of their religion) can sell a car part. No discrimination.

Re:Does this also include

[wierd_w]

What about japanese prayer scrolls, and spell papers?

Those are physical items, and actually quite intricate in their designs. Much more interesting aesthetically than a tobasco bottle filled with water.

Re:Does this also include

[geekoid]

Yes, you can! please provide video footage of you trying to pour it on DIck.

Re:Does this also include

[geekoid]

Actual, When you sell holy water, you are selling water with a spell cast on it. If you can't prove the spell was cast, what's the difference?

Re:Does this also include

[Belial6]

You and all of the other people here that are condoning holy water are playing the "It's not magic, it's a miracle" game in trying to position holy water as 'not a magic item'. The very fact that you feel the need to declare that holy water isn't "Magic" is an admission that you are fully aware that belief that it IS magic is common. Being 'Holy' is by it's very nature a claim of a supernatural state, and thus "Magic".

Re:Does this also include

[darkwing_bmf]

I suppose if they were selling a video of them casting a spell then that would be okay. What isn't okay is them selling a spell or magic casting service thereof. A video is a tangible item. A spell, not so much.

Re:Does this also include

[geekoid]

Yes, it does claim effect and power:
Wikipedia:
"holy water is water which has been sanctified by a priest or bishop for the purpose of baptism, the blessing of persons, places, and objects; or as a means of repelling evil."

Catholic church:
"In this context Catholics distinguish sacraments from ‘sacramentals’. In the strict sense, sacramentals are signs, instituted by the Church and rooted in the baptismal priesthood of all believers. They always include a prayer, often accompanied by a gesture such as the laying-on of hands, the sign of the cross or sprinkling with holy water. Sacramentals do not confer the grace of the Holy Spirit in the same way as sacraments, but by the Church’s prayer they are intended to help prepare believers to receive and cooperate with God’s free gift of grace. Sacramentals include blessings of people and things. Certain blessings consecrate people to God in a special way, or reserve objects and places for sacred use. “Every baptised person is called to be ‘a blessing’, and to bless."

" A magic spell that "lets you repel evil" is, I would say, slightly more assuring of a definite effect. "
The only difference is you are more used to one then the other.

Re:Does this also include

[geekoid]

which christian? oh, lumping every one who claims they are a form of Christian even though their tenet directly oppose Christs.

Yeah, that number is crap.

Re:Does this also include

[jythie]

I am talking about organized Christian Lobbying groups, not the population. I would say they are pretty out of step with the actual wishes and desires of the population, but they have the time and resources to get a disproportionate amount of attention. In other words.... they do not actually represent Christians as a whole.

As for the persecution complex.. naturally it varies by church and denomination, but you do not have to look far to see it at work at the political level.. just look at all the 'war on Christmas' and 'secular war on Christians' rhetoric that compares any decrease in special privilege as persecution. Again, not the bulk of the population, but the well organized groups.

Re:Does this also include

[oldmac31310]

So it is like homeopathic 'medicine' then?

Re:Does this also include

[c.r.o.c.o]

Ebay has long deserved the hate speech it receives online. Such as forbidding negative feedback for buyers that rip-off the seller via nonpayment of goods, keeping the new shoes but returning old/wornout shoes, claiming nonreceipt of item when they have it in their hand, et cetera. (No neg feedback == No way to warn other sellers to stay away from the buying scam artist.)

Sorry, but it works both ways. The new rules were implemented because sellers were ripping buyers off as well. Shipping fake goods, not shipping items at all, refusing refunds that were within the terms of the transaction and then threatening to leave negative feedback was a common theme.

Here's my anecdote: I bought a couple of genuine OEM laptop batteries for a reasonable price. I chose a seller with good feedback and did not go for the cheapest batteries available, made sure the description listed them as genuine, OEM, made by Sony (that was my laptop at the time), made sure the pictures matched my current battery. Well, they both died within a week and they were both fakes. I asked for my money back, the seller did not answer. When I threatened to leave negative feedback he just laughed at me and told me he'd leave negative feedback in return. He did not care, because my one negative feedback would be a drop in the bucket to his 10000 positive ones (almost all from buying and selling under $1 items). But his one negative feedback would ruin my account with only 60 positive feedbacks.

So while I sympathize with decent, honest Ebay sellers, there were good reasons for the rule changes. If they are too onerous, stop using Ebay or argue to have the rules changed back.

Re:Does this also include

[bws111]

First, I don't see anyone claiming holy water is a miracle. What I see are several people saying "it is not magic, it is a symbol". Do you understand what a symbol is?

Secondly, popular culture believing that catholics believe holy water is magic is not the same as catholics believing holy water is magic.

Re:Does this also include

[LoyalOpposition]

Really?

Yeah.

Have you not seen a single republican on the TV?

No, I guess not. I like watching Castle, but it's been in reruns this summer, so I haven't been watching. I get most of my television from Netflix, and there are no republicans there.

Everywhere you turn some christian nutjob is screaming about the "War on Religion". Seems to me that the "religious right" LOVES to berate and belittle every belief, nonbelief, and outlook that isn't theirs and the second anybody points this out it's suddenly a war on religion.

You mean--like you're doing to me right now?

~Loyal

Re:Does this also include

[cffrost]

Actual, When you sell holy water, you are selling water with a spell cast on it. If you can't prove the spell was cast, what's the difference?

Feed some to a vampire bat. If bat doesn't succumb to rapid phase change, shit is fake.

Re:Does this also include

[v1]

I had a similar experience. NOW ebay doesn't allow sellers to leave buyers negative feedback.... only neutral, positive, and none.

Re:Does this also include

[v1]

surely he can find some more effective substance, hydrofluoric acid perhaps?

Enough of that and he ought to go up like the WoO witch.

Re:Does this also include

[bill_mcgonigle]

So it is like homeopathic 'medicine' then?

Nope. Homeopathy claims to depend on dilution for its magic. Holy water can't be diluted!

It's like if you had a drop of beer and put it in the bucket, and the whole bucket became beer. I know some people who just might worship that!

Re:Does this also include

[Belial6]

You may be paying lip service to your "faith", but it is naive to think that every other Catholic on the planet is faking their beliefs just because you are. You also seem to be confused into thinking that only Catholics believe that holy water is magic.

Re:Does this also include

[morari]

Frankly, the the buy doesn't have as much to hold up in terms of experience. Once you've paid, your end is fullfilled and the seller should leave positive feedback. Unfortunately, far too many eBay sellers are scam artists. Anyone with thousands of sales under their belt and a constant inventory is probably not worth dealing with in my experience.

Re:Does this also include

[geekoid]

The Vatican says it repels evil, is used to get you next to god, and the 'holiness' it is completely undetectable. How is it not magic?

It's NOT a symbol. Please learn your own gad damn theology.

Re:Does this also include

[jb11]

While there may be some listings for services by which curses, hexes, or spells are cast, I believe these things are typically actual words written on paper or parchment that someone (supposedly with more experience in the area) created for certain purposes. So they should be tangible items. Also, they are banning potions. I would assume holy water would be included in that category.

Re:Does this also include

[cpu6502]

>>>Sorry, but it works both ways. The new rules were implemented because sellers were ripping buyers off as well. Shipping fake goods, not shipping items at all, refusing refunds that were within the terms of the transaction and then threatening to leave negative feedback was a common theme.
>>>
Yes ripoff scams work both ways: Bad buyers and bad sellers.
So too should the feedback. Negative for bad buyers and negative for bad sellers.
The way things are now it appears bad buyers don't exist. Which is flat wrong and you know it.

>>>his one negative feedback would ruin my account with only 60 positive feedbacks.

Not really. You have (or rather had) the ability to leave replies to negatives from sellers. Here's what I wrote after I had a bad seller:
(-) Buyer is difficult to deal with. Avoid
Reply by cpu6502: You sold "new" games that were scratched. Paypal refunded my cash & suspended seller (insufficient funds).

This lets other sellers know that the neg I received was not deserved. So I have 60 out of 61. Big deal. It won't stop me from buying more stuff. (Or selling.)

Re:Does this also include

[blackest_k]

I don't know if this makes me exceptional but if I look at feedback of a seller. I don't care about the positive feedback it is the negative or neutral feedback which interests me most.

We all hope for a smooth and satisfactory transaction but it is always better to get an idea of what happens when things do go wrong.

Re:Does this also include

[ThatsMyNick]

Mod UP! Exactly what I was going to say!

Re:Does this also include

[cpu6502]

>>> Once you've paid, your end is fullfilled and the seller should leave positive feedback.

False. "No negatives for buyers" means the buyer power to blackmail the seller. And yes I have experienced it. People contact me through email & demand a 25% or 50% discount or else they will neg me. (I have no choice but to give in because I can't neg them back. They are holding the weapon and I have nothing.)

And you say a buyer has nothing to do beyond paying. That's wrong. (1) Sometimes payments bounce several days later, usually because of a stolen or maxed-out credit card. That's reason for a negative feedback to warn other sellers. (2) I've had buyers claim non-receipt even though I have a tracking number showing they received it. They neg me; I neg them back to warn other sellers. (3) I've had buyers claim the item was smashed in transit (post office ran over item with truck) and then leave me a negative, never offering me a chance to send them a replacement game/issue a refund. That's a Bad buyer. (4) And the blackmail example above. (5) I could go on and on and on. Many buyers on ebay are professional scam artists whose mission is to get stuff for free & screw the seller.

There are LOTS of things a buyer can do to make a seller's life miserable, and these buyers deserve negatives to warn other sellers about their habits.

To claim buyers don't know how to be evil & never deserve a negative, merely shows you have never encountered a scam artist as buyer. Or never worked retail (just picture in your mind a buyer yelling-and-cursing at a Walmart employee).

Re:Does this also include

[Killall -9 Bash]

You're one of those PROTESTANTS who call themselves christian, and don't like it when any other of the christian faiths claim that title.

Well, here's a little something to ruin your day-- that cross you wear around your neck, that symbol in the upper left of the christian flag, that little decorative doo-hickey on top of your church.... they violate the 2nd commandment. So, have fun in hell, heathen.

The 2nd commandment is no religious iconography. Period. Why did God want no symbols? Maybe for the same reason he commanded that sacrificial altars be made without hewn (cut) stones or mortar. Maybe you should read that bible you carry around for others to see.

Another fun fact to ruin your day: Protestant leaders, especially baptist leaders, resist moving away from the King James Version for the same reason the Catholic church until recently resisted the idea of having Mass in any language other than latin. Have fun figuring that out.

Re:Does this also include

[TheCarp]

> " A magic spell that "lets you repel evil" is, I would say, slightly
> more assuring of a definite effect. "
> The only difference is you are more used to one then the other.

That's not the only difference, there is also the wording here, at least in these examples. Their claims are so general as to be meaningless. What does it mean to 'repel evil'? Its so open to interpretation. Hell you could be killed, while tossing the holy water in the face of your serial rapist murder, and I could still spin that.

However, if you claim someone is going to fall madly in lust with me... aside from any ethical issues that may develop from how it may be administered (lets assume not, I drink it myself and it does its magic....keep it simple) well... I may miss the odd signal or two, but if the claim is someones love, or powerful lust... I may not be able to objectively prove it didn't work as intended, but, I definitely have some expectations (you know, assuming I...heh... believed in magic)

In the end, I agree, it really is the same thing... but I can see why they get less complaints. Its much easier to feel good about your purchase when its not making overly specific claims, which is clearly why they got the pass.

Really, the Christians are not new. They have been at this selling dreams game a long time and they are good at it...and THAT is the other real difference.

I bet you the creative ones will find their way back onto ebay, and will refine their game a little too....so they don't piss off ebay.

Re:Does this also include

[c.r.o.c.o]

Yes ripoff scams work both ways: Bad buyers and bad sellers.
So too should the feedback. Negative for bad buyers and negative for bad sellers.
The way things are now it appears bad buyers don't exist. Which is flat wrong and you know it.

I absolutely agree with you, and with every point you make. This situation is unfair to honest sellers, as I know there are a lot of dishonest buyers out there. I do a fair amount of trade locally in computer gear, and I avoid Ebay like the plague when it comes to selling my items for your very reasons.

But the problem is sellers do have an unfair advantage, especially those with 10k+ feedbacks when dealing with small time buyers like myself. Explaining the negative feedback may be just fine, but some sellers outright forbid people from bidding if they don't have a perfect rating. Besides, many people do care about their perfect rating on principle. I cut my losses on those two batteries that combined cost about $150 rather than have a negative feedback.

Ebay's lifeline are the buyers. I haven't looked in a while at their pricing scheme, and I can only assume sellers have to pay a fee for unsuccessful auctions. However if enough buyers leave the site because of unscrupulous sellers, then the sellers will leave the site and Ebay fails. That's why the rules are definitely in the buyers' favour now. If you can find a solution that would work better than the current one, by all means I want to hear it. Going back to the way things used to be is not an option.

Re:Does this also include

[morari]

Sometimes payments bounce several days later, usually because of a stolen or maxed-out credit card.

That would be an unfulfilled payment, would it not? As I understand, eBay and PayPal hold all payments for a while to make sure that they do clear.

I've had buyers claim non-receipt even though I have a tracking number showing they received it.

Send it in a way that requires a signature, not just a tracking code.

I've had buyers claim the item was smashed in transit.

Pack your items better.

Seriously, these things are on the seller. Of course there are people out there that are going to try to scam you. They can be buyers, and they can certainly be sellers too. Maybe you just have had a few bad experiences, but to me you sound like one of the many sellers who simply do not care to do business in an acceptable way. Sellers blackmailing buyers with negative feedback was unacceptable and out of control. It was fixed. Your problem certainly exists, but it doesn't matter as much in the grand scheme of things. People will continue selling items regardless of policy. It's the buyers that you don't want to turn away.

Re:Does this also include

[Man Eating Duck]

As a mineral collector, one of the things that has irked me is constantly running into auctions for crystals that are supposed to "do" something: increase your libido, etc. For example:

Yeah, I have even gotten some incredible samples (a sunstone, a moonstone and a tourmaline crystal, to be exact) from a guy who was respected by the geologic communtiy in the country, as he regularly provided samples that were extremely valuable (Sadly, he died prematurely without revealing his locations. While living, he provided a steady supply). He claimed that the samples I got had healing properties, which obviously must be correct since my health and physical state since I got them are (is? Sig) way above average. Apart from that he was a brilliant collector, whose knowledge in some areas surpassed the "serious" mineralogists in the country. Sometimes I wonder about how delusions work :)

Re:Does this also include

[crossmr]

. Such as forbidding negative feedback for buyers that rip-off the seller via nonpayment of goods,

Sellers brought that upon themselves by holding feedback hostage against buyers and threatening them with negative feedback unless they gave them positive feedback regardless of what they did.

Sellers who had hundreds or thousands of transactions were unaffected by a small number of negatives, a buyer who only bought a couple dozen things had their reputation greatly affected by that.

Re:Does this also include

[rs79]

"Holy Water: Ordered a vial of water, get a vial of water
Order a Spell: Receive a piece of paper saying it was cast.

Can people really not see why EBay would treat these differently?"

The difference is, people aren't paying for a vial of water. They already have that. They're paying for magic water.

Re:Does this also include

[Khyber]

" People contact me through email & demand a 25% or 50% discount or else they will neg me. (I have no choice but to give in because I can't neg them back. They are holding the weapon and I have nothing.)"

Then call the police and have fucking blackmail/extortion charges filed against them after you obtain a reliable address, you fucking moron.

Re:Does this also include

[Blaskowicz]

ironically you maybe should go for a battery that doesn't carry any OEM marks. I looked for batteries for a friend's eeepc, and for a friend's acer (but, we didn't buy any one). the vendor is the company actually making them! (or so is the claim). there are long duration models with twice the battery life. as we're all cash strapped we couldn't sadly test them.

maybe that's a bit different with a sony..

Re:Does this also include

[cpu6502]

>>>>>Sometimes payments bounce several days later, usually because of a stolen or maxed-out credit card.
>>
>>That would be an unfulfilled payment, would it not? As I understand, eBay and PayPal hold all payments for a while to make sure that they do clear.

Not for credit cards. They came through immediately, and then a few days later the CC company reverses the charge. Paypal then sucks the money out of the seller account (and the thief/buyer gets a free item). It's only happened to me twice but in one case it cost me several hundred in losses
.

>>>>>I've had buyers claim the item was smashed in transit (post office ran over item with truck)
>>
>>Pack your items better.

Please learn to read what I wrote above. The buyer complained that the mailman RAN OVER IT. And yes I agree it is the seller's responsiblity to refund the buyer regardless, which I do on those rare times something goes wrong. But how am I supposed to do that when the buyer ALREADY NEGGED MY FEEDBACK and never gave me a chance to respond???

For you to sit here and defend a buyer who purposely damages my reputation w/o ever contacting me First to fix the problem, indicates to me that you think sellers are scum who deserve to lose money. That you believe it is ALWAYS the sellers' fault and never the buyer.

Re:Does this also include

[cpu6502]

>>>Then call the police and have fucking blackmail/extortion charges filed against them after you obtain a reliable address, you fucking moron.

I actually tried that once involving an ebay sale of 250 dollars (Bluray player). The police in the buyer's home town said they don't bother with anything until after passes $1000 in value. They said they have higher priority things to deal with to waste time on small ebay claims. So you called me a "moron" and yet it is you who is truly ignorant about how the realworld works.

Re:Does this also include

[cpu6502]

>>>both batteries died within a week and they were both fake Sonys. I asked for my money back, the seller did not answer. When I threatened to leave negative feedback he just laughed at me and told me he'd leave negative feedback in return.
>>>
I have received negative feedback on my buying account (which is separate from my selling account), but have never lost a single penny from a dishonest seller. In your case I would have negged him; he would have negged me back. (Then I would have filed with ebay that the neg was retailiatory and they would have removed it.) Next I would have mailed-back some innocent looking envelope stuffed with junkmail advertising & a tracking number. Something the seller would just toss in the trash.

Then I would have waited ~50 days. Then I would have filed a paypal claim explaining that the damaged batteries were returned w/ the tracking number. Paypal would have returned the cash. And it would be the SELLER who had lost 150 dollars, not the buyer.

BTW:

Was this seller from China by chance? A ot of them sell fake batteries, and in that case it's even easier to get a refund from the scam artist. Just file a claim of non-receipt. Chinese sellers never use tracking, so they can't prove the Fake Sony batteries were delivered, so you get a refund by default.

Re:Does this also include

[Khyber]

Silly faggot doesn't know how to file a goddamned report with the local DA.

Sorry, you're still a fucking stupid fool/tool.

Come back when you've kicked EA's ass and got their money to talk about it.

Idiot.

Re:Does this also include

[cpu6502]

>>>Silly faggot doesn't know how to file a goddamned report with the local DA.

Sorry, you're still a fucking stupid fool/tool.

They wouldn't waste time on a Ebay email that said, "Give me a 50% refund or I will leave negative feedback." The DA would respond exactly the same way the police did: Too small money amount to bother with. YOU a re the one who is the iogornastm other fuciedr thart desrves to burn in hedll;.. Infact UYOU are probably jsut the typ[e to blackmail sellers demandign refunds or elese you'd neg themm.

Stuypdi tgheiof. gop vudfk cvyourslef wuirh a plasticv hard dildo. Cocjsucign ipe son birc eisjht

Re:Does this also include

[cpu6502]

I read your post twice and what I'm still hearing from you and others is "You're just a filthy greedy jew... (bkspc)(bkspc)(bkspc)... greedy seller and you deserve to lose money. Because all sellers, even the 98% who are honest, are scum of the earth. We spit on them." --- As things stand now on ebay that's essentially what is happening: Sellers routinely losing money.

You're right the buyers won't leave because they get an automatic 100% feedback (even if they are professional thieves). It will be the sellers who leave when they get tired of losing 100-200 dollars every week to professional scam artists/buyers.

As Ebay was originaly envisioned it was supposed to be an equal community. Buyers/sellers trading with one another & neither had an advantage. Buyers could neg bad sellers..... and then later the buyer would re-sell his item on ebay, and the tables would be turned (the buyer had to be a good seller).

Re:Does this also include

[Khyber]

I've obviously won this round.

"They wouldn't waste time on a Ebay email that said, "Give me a 50% refund or I will leave negative feedback." The DA would respond exactly the same way the police did: Too small money amount to bother with."

Try again, faggot. It's called Criminal Threat with Intent to Extort.

Re:Does this also include

[LoyalOpposition]

BAM there it is, another nut turning everything around so they are the one being persecuted.

I hate to admit it, but I'm confused. However, if I could get you to do me a favor I think it would clear things up for me. The favor is to look at two statements and tell me which one is persecuting. Would you do that for me, please?

The first statement is: It seems to me that you're being hypocritical because you're doing the same thing to me that you decry when others do it to you.

The second statement is: Everywhere you turn some atheist nutjob is screaming about the "War on Atheists". Seems to me that the "civil rights for atheists" groups LOVE to berate and belittle every belief, nonbelief, and outlook that isn't theirs and the second anybody points this out it's suddenly a war on atheists.

Which of those statements is the more persecutory, if any? It seems to me that one of those is persecuting and the other isn't, but it's certainly possible that neither are, or even that both are. Would you let me know? Because I'm really having a problem understanding.

~Loyal

Well there goes my plan

[royallthefourth]

to sell magic brownies on Ebay

Re:Well there goes my plan

[ackthpt]

to sell magic brownies on Ebay

To say nothing of Magic Mushrooms

Or little tea cakes with the lettering EAT ME on them

Re:Well there goes my plan

[Dragonslicer]

To say nothing of Magic Mushrooms

But what about Fire Flowers?

Re:Well there goes my plan

[Pope]

Try Etsy.

This is stupid.

[VortexCortex]

Introducing my new line of novelty items.

Re:This is stupid.

[SomePgmr]

Exactly what I thought. Dumb rules to placate dumb people.

Re:This is stupid.

[Nikker]

It's just a way of Ebay covering their assess. As long as people are buying and selling stuff I don't really see them caring what it is. As far as negative comments and payment disputes go, that is when they step in because they don't want the BS. Sell it as a novelty item and the customer can't complain when the rabbit doesn't jump out of the hat and the card you chose is not the Ace of Diamonds.

Re:This is stupid.

[RabidReindeer]

Exactly what I thought. Dumb rules to placate dumb people.

Curses be upon them!

Re:But i need mana!!!

[queazocotal]

'Buyers husband was already a toad, therefore he was unchanged'

A curse upon them!

[ackthpt]

So they may know the sufferings endured by their customers, may a great lamentable curse be upon them!

Not like using ebay isn't some kind of curse, from both buyer and seller perspective .. every try to get online help from these goofballs? Have a lot of spare time to kill.

Could be a problem

[Tapewolf]

Does this also include oxygen-free cables and that CD that's supposed to re-tune your speakers?

Re:Could be a problem

[ackthpt]

Does this also include oxygen-free cables and that CD that's supposed to re-tune your speakers?

Sounds to me like any sufficiently advanced technology will now be banned as they are indistinguishable from magic.

Re:But i need mana!!!

[Stormthirst]

Or "your private detective lied - your husband isn't cheating on you"

You're telling me!

[Quiet_Desperation]

transactions in these categories often result in issues that can be difficult to resolve.

I have to sand down these horns every morning, and the seller keeps giving me the run around about the antidote and seapony tear scarcity.

Expeto Viagrus potion? My shiny metal ass!

Seriously, it's metal now.

Re:You're telling me!

[somaTh]

I got a bait and switch. Love Potion #9 turned out to be a mis-type. Now all these stupid pigeons won't leave me alone.

Re:You're telling me!

[Jesus_666]

I don't want to play devil's advocate but the last sea pony sighting was three generations ago. Try as you might but calling upon them might simply no longer work.

Re:You're telling me!

[__aaeihw9960]

That is false. God Bless the internet.

Complaints

[Anonymous Coward]

The issue for eBay is complaints. They don't really care otherwise and they're not really interested in fairness or equality or any other bogey men you might wish to throw up. Here's how it goes:

People buy magic, spells, potions, what have you and when it doesn't work, they dispute the purchase and complain to eBay. This increases eBay's administrative overhead significantly for stuff that, we'll all agree, is ridiculous.

Meanwhile, Christians purchase holy water or whatever. But, when it doesn't work, they say that it was God's will. Or God has his reasons for my magic water not working and they do NOT complain to eBay. Making these transactions nothing but a profit center for eBay.

Re:Complaints

[characterZer0]

What is holy water actually supposed to do that you would be able to come up with any kind of complaint about? Maybe if it arrived with a dead fly floating in it, but I do not think that would be "difficult to resolve".

Re:Complaints

[Githaron]

It is not holy enough?

Re:Complaints

[sjames]

Well there you have it! It's curing pestilence one fly at a time.

Re:Complaints

[Intropy]

Generally holy water isn't supposed to be "magic" or anything. It's sanctified. What does sanctification confer on the water? Not a blessed thing. It's a symbolic act meant to convey solemnity or respect for participants (as in someone being baptized) and God. Selling items that claim to be magic is not wrong because magic is evil or because the religious beliefs of people who want the items are bad. It's wrong because the item does not do the thing it claims to be able to do, which is just plain false advertising. Holy water really is sanctified and that's the only claim. If some specific item is put up claiming to be holy water and to do X, Y, and Z, which it clearly doesn't, then that would warrant a takedown. Holy water being a religious item does not.

Re:Complaints

[PopeRatzo]

People buy magic, spells, potions, what have you and when it doesn't work, they dispute the purchase and complain to eBay. This increases eBay's administrative overhead significantly for stuff that, we'll all agree, is ridiculous.

Meanwhile, Christians purchase holy water or whatever. But, when it doesn't work, they say that it was God's will. Or God has his reasons for my magic water not working and they do NOT complain to eBay. Making these transactions nothing but a profit center for eBay.

Wait a minute, are you calling Christians gullible rubes who have cowed even very big corporations into buying into their hocus pocus, not to mention several generations of political leaders?

Because if you are, that's like totally offensive, and it's the kind of hate speech that makes you totally responsible for any bad thing that ever happens to any Christian, ever again.

Re:Complaints

[Hatta]

So what you're saying is that if I buy holy water off of eBay and complain that it wasn't as holy as described, they'll ban Christian items too?

Re:Complaints

[Hatta]

What if I get the holy water and find out that it hasn't been properly sanctified? Should I get my money back?

Re:Complaints

[pluther]

No. He's saying if 10,000 people buy holy water off of eBay and 5,000 of them complain that it wasn't holy enough, they'll ban Christian items too...

Re:Complaints

[ifrag]

What if I get the holy water and find out that it hasn't been properly sanctified? Should I get my money back?

Sure... if you can come up with a scientifically repeatable test where I can independently verify your results of improperly sanctified water. Oh right... maybe not.

Re:Complaints

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy Water is not supposed to "work" you ass-hat. Christians don't suppose it does anything other than remind of us of baptism.

Nice strawman though troll

Re:Complaints

[rwv]

What is holy water actually supposed to do that you would be able to come up with any kind of complaint about?

The bar is pretty low here. I'm pretty sure being "wet" is enough. As long as the contents of the package don't evaporate before they reach the buyer, the seller is getting what they bargained for.

I'd wonder if anybody would buy Holy Gatorade on eBay... there must be enough religious jocks in the world to tap into that target demographic.

Re:Complaints

[Vintermann]

Sure, if it turns out hasn't been blessed by a catholic priest. That doesn't seem likely, but it could happen (e.g. if the seller boasts elsewhere of not getting it blessed).

It's much the same as selling non-kosher meat as kosher. Or selling a sketch you've drawn yourself, saying it was drawn by Munch. If it turns out the item wasn't made as advertised (and "make" in this sense includes tapping water into a bottle) then the customer has a legitimate complaint, even if you think it's completely silly to care whether a sketch you like was really drawn by Munch / a priest really said a blessing over that bottle of water.

Re:Complaints

[Vintermann]

The results don't matter. I can't scientifically prove that I derive less enjoyment from a convincing fake Rembrandt than a real one. Objectively it's just paint on canvas anyway, and you could argue it's completely irrelevant how that paint ended up on the canvas if I can't tell the difference anyway. Yet, if you sold me a fake Rembrandt, even if you could somehow prove it was identical to an original down to the last molecule, the law would be on my side.

Re:Complaints

[Shagg]

Can you can come up with a scientifically repeatable test where I can independently verify your results of properly sanctified water?

Re:Complaints

[Shagg]

Tim Tebow probably has a patent on it already.

Re:Complaints

[geekoid]

" It's sanctified."
Which is magic.
The fact that's it's a Cleric spell doesn't change that fact.

Re:Complaints

[oldmac31310]

Why is everyone talking about selling holy water? Last time I paid attention it was free.

Re:Complaints

[An ominous Cow art]

I'd wonder if anybody would buy Holy Gatorade on eBay

It's what plants pray for!

Re:Complaints

[oldmac31310]

Actually no, you are wrong. There are plenty of superstitious Catholics that believe holy water has near magical properties - for healing etc. Especially if the water comes from a particularly 'holy' spring. Of course it is all superstitious bullshit, but there are millions that believe in the magical powers of holy water even nowadays. And of course it is really a pre-christian foible going back to the stone age where sun, moon, water, earth were venerated and worshiped as if imbued with spirits. The Christian church merely adopted the associated practices as they were unable to stop the 'faithful' going ahead and doing what they always did.

Re:Complaints

[v1]

The problem isn't the magical power of the item being disputed, but of it not having the claimed effect.

Sanctified water isn't usually sold with any claimed "magical powers". People buy it for whatever power they believe it may happen to have that they're looking for. Most of the "uses" are very subjective, and I think we can agree the effects, if any, are placebo.

Now on the other hand, if you were selling Holy Water (the "usual variety", sanctified at your local church etc) and were claiming that it could do all sorts of things like remove warts, THEN ebay would likely step in. Otherwise go ahead and sell all the Holy Water you want to. Just don't claim it will perform any specific magic service.

Re:Complaints

[v1]

I think there should be a line drawn, but the problem is the line isn't very clear to see. It's one of those "common sense" things.

If I buy a rope and they claim it can hold 200 lbs continuous and has a breaking strength of 500 lbs, and I slowly put 100 lbs on it and it breaks, that's all pretty clear-cut. They made a reasonably believable claim to performance, I didn't get that performance, and the performance of the product is clearly demonstrable.

On the other hand if I sell a rope for catching ghosts, and you're stupid enough to buy it for your seance, and you swear you see a ghost and it slips through the rope, now we have the "stupidity" that ebay is trying to avoid. "this rope doesn't work on ghosts!" "No it works fine on ghosts, you're using it wrong!" Even if the seller IS being sincere, (stupid) ebay is tired of refereeing these idiots. I don't blame them.

Re:Complaints

[geekoid]

Because holy water from a more mystical place, or blessed by a popular priest can be seen as 'better'. Whihc is ridiculous logically AND theologically.

Re:Complaints

[Zan Lynx]

Are you claiming that holy water blessed by a level 10 Cleric is the same as that blessed by a level 1 Cleric?

Well, you're right. It's a level 1 divine spell with no level modifiers.

Re:Complaints

[arkane1234]

It depends if the die landed with a higher number...

Re:Complaints

[quenda]

. Holy water really is sanctified and that's the only claim.

It is also supposed to ward off demons and vampires, but that one is rather difficult to disprove.

Re:Complaints

[rs79]

"What does sanctification confer on the water? Not a blessed thing."

Then why is it specified in the exorcism rituals?

You really don't get how silly this all sounds?

Re:Complaints

[v1]

BY definition Holy Ware has specific uses and effects.

I disagree. They are selling "sanctified water". In other words, ordinary water that some old dude in fancy robes has waived his hand around and mumbled some silly things to. Nothing more. If that's what they're selling, you're probably going to get just that. Anything more is up to someone else to tell you that you're getting. The guy doing the selling isn't going to describe it in any other way, or ebay will just yank it.

I can get on ebay and sell a spoon that the Pope ate his breakfast cereal with last year. That's all that I'll lay claim to. If YOU want to believe that eating your breakfast with that same spoon will have some spiritual or other magical positive effects, you go for it! Maybe you were told by someone that it would make your cereal less fattening. But that's entirely up to you to believe, I make no promises I can't keep. You believe what you want to believe from who you want to listen to. I don't mind that if it gets my spoon sold. But I sure won't mind taking advantage of any suckers that believe what "holy benefits" someone else has told them my spoon might get them. If they don't get the effects they were expecting, they need to take it up with the wacko they got the voodoo information from, NOT me. And this keeps eBay OUT of the loop.

Re:Complaints

[acidreverb]

I think what the GP is saying is, how would you ever prove it?

Re:Complaints

[Vintermann]

Isn't that obvious? I mean, if I have a molecular assembly machine in my back room, and molecular blueprints for a Rembrandt, and the real original is provably in someone else's possession, don't you think the buyer would have a good case?

You aren't limited to examining the actual good delivered when determining whether you have got what you ordered.

A less extreme example may be certification, e.g. fair trade certification. If you sell me a cup of juice and tell me it's fair trade, then it will be impossible to tell from the physical properties of the juice I bought whether I got what I paid for or not. But it would be pretty easy from looking at the carton it was poured from.

Re:What's left?

[ackthpt]

First they ban used underwear and now I can't even buy magic spells? Sheesh. It seems like there's nothing left on eBay worth bidding on.

Yeah, you can't even sell your spare body parts anymore. What's the world coming to?

But you are free to sell all the grilled cheese sandwhiches depicting Jesus or the apostles your heart desires (gette thee the compleat sette nowe!)

My Wizard6/SwordSage2

[HeckRuler]

My Wizard6/SwordSage2 is inconsolable.
Now he'll never get that ring of wizardry III

Still waiting on that refund

[RazorRaiser]

For the very disappointing X-Ray glasses

Re:But i need mana!!!

[Moheeheeko]

"love 'potion' made target break out in hives and convulse. 0/10 would not buy again"

Curses!

[gestalt_n_pepper]

And my plan to flood the world with magic would have worked if it weren't for you meddling kids at Ebay!

More seriously. If you're going to ban people for buying stupid useless things, you might as well shut down Ebay right now.

Re:Curses!

[ackthpt]

And my plan to flood the world with magic would have worked if it weren't for you meddling kids at Ebay!

More seriously. If you're going to ban people for buying stupid useless things, you might as well shut down Ebay right now.

This does not prevent you starting your own magic item online auction service, they've left that door wide open.

EBAY - Getting our cut while helping rearrange the world's junk.

Re:Curses!

[geekoid]

Oh my, I'm going to be rich.

Sparlock the Warrior Wizard

[tepples]

Did any of this have anything to do with threats of a boycott by Jehovah's Witnesses who took the Watchtower's anti-magic propaganda seriously?

Instead of bobcat,

[Arancaytar]

potion turned me into newt. Would not buy again.

Re:Instead of bobcat,

[VortexCortex]

A Newt?

Re:Instead of bobcat,

[toby34a]

Sounds like you got better.

Re:Instead of bobcat,

[mortonda]

He got better

Re:Instead of bobcat,

[stretch0611]

I was a Newt already...

But the spell failed to make me the republican presidential nominee despite its guarantee.

Re:Instead of bobcat,

[gman003]

Wow, a combination XKCD *and* Monty Python reference.

Now find a way to mix in a Simpson's reference and a way to blame it on Microsoft (bonus points if you swap $ for S), and you'll have the most perfect /. comment possible.

Unusual

[GameboyRMH]

Usually Ebay tries to enforce joke sales where neither side wants to go through with the deal (remember the "drawing of a spider" fiasco?) and encourages sales of stupid shit because it advertises the "anyone can get rich by selling crap on our website!" angle. They must have been having major issues with returns on "magic items" to do this.

Re:Unusual

[mortonda]

You must be new here.

Re:What's left?

[characterZer0]

Have they banned providing free shipping and using used underwear and magic spells as packaging?

Just about complaints and reversed transactions

[Tridus]

This is really about the number of complaints on these types of auctions, nothing more. People who scream discrimination are wrong.

The problem with bidding on an intangible item is a simple matter of delivery. If I pay you to cast a spell over eBay, did you do it? How do I know? If what I want didn't happen, I can blame you and just use buyer protection to get my money back.

Tangible goods are still largely acceptable (magic potions seem to be an exception). Which is why holy water is alright - it's a physical thing that doesn't promise to do anything in particular.

Re:Just about complaints and reversed transactions

[SpeZek]

Holy water does have properties that are believed in by people who use it, intangible as they may be to other people. It does carry a particular promise as the incantation includes things like banishment of evil from the water and therefore things it touches.

Re:Just about complaints and reversed transactions

[silas_moeckel]

If I sell ya a vial as something that I say a catholic priest blessed into holy water and a catholic priest did do so it's pretty straight forward I can prove the action was done. I can not prove that it is anything more than water some guy from some organization did something to. Most of your less prominent religions etc don't have a sanctioning body to fall back on.

Re:Just about complaints and reversed transactions

[John Hasler]

> The problem with bidding on an intangible item is a simple
> matter of delivery.

So you can't sell services on Ebay?

Re:Just about complaints and reversed transactions

[SecurityGuy]

Holy water does have properties that are believed in by people who use it, intangible as they may be to other people.

In other words, it has no such properties, but some people believe it does.

Re:Just about complaints and reversed transactions

[fermion]

I do understand this but could this not also be solved by a scam alert or booting off sellers with high complaint rates. As it is every category has complaints. The issue here is the chosen solution, not the fact that a problem needed to be solved. For instance, computer sales has a high fraud rate. Empty boxes are sold, delivery to far off land result in no payments, payments result in no computer. The solution to this was not to ban sales, but to educate the consumer. It is hard to argue that is is anything but an opportuni to appease the a nnoying vocal subset of alleged Christians.

Re:Just about complaints and reversed transactions

[geekoid]

Holy Water is used to create an effect. It's not just some priest blessed it. It has a 'purpose' in may religions.

It's no different the a magic spell.
How about this.
I sell a scroll empowered with the ability for the person who says it to cast a spell?

Re:Just about complaints and reversed transactions

[silas_moeckel]

Get a large sanctioning body to back it. Ebay cares little about religion they care about charge backs and disputed sales. So if that scroll is backed by said sanctioning body it's just a question of did the mailman deliver it.

they banned ass-kickings, too

[TheGratefulNet]

an oldie classic from the ebay archives, back when they were just starting out:

http://www.othercinema.com/otherzine/otherzine4/auction.html

Re:But i need mana!!!

[CanHasDIY]

Or "The private detective you're banging lied - your husband isn't cheating on you"

FTFY

Re:Oh well that is just great!

[ackthpt]

Now how will the Charmed ones defeat Gandalf The Black?

You just don't think these things through at all, do you eBay?

They're in league with Sauron, didn't you know that?

Re:What's left?

[Ziggitz]

Perhaps you should leave out the assumption that anyone mocking of someone selling the depiction of Jesus on a grilled cheese sandwich is an atheist and a liberal and purposefully bashing conservatives before you express the holier than thou brand of sarcasm.

Re:who exactly is ebay trying to protect?

[Desler]

No, they were annoyed by the countless disputes they had to remedy. Those things cost their support people time and money that could be bett spent elsewhere.

Greatest wrong

[eclectro]

Is ebay's terms of service that prevents the selling of "ghosts in a jar." The outrage.

Re:Greatest wrong

[Megane]

Instead of a machine with a ghost inside, package contained cardboard sleeve containing black plastic disc with strange grooves on it. Would not buy again.

Re:What's left?

[plover]

First they ban used underwear and now I can't even buy magic spells? Sheesh. It seems like there's nothing left on eBay worth bidding on.

What about unused Magic Underwear?

I predict a protest...

[ItsJustAPseudonym]

...by Kentucky lawmakers.

U.S. Dollars are not baseless

[tepples]

In this system of things, U.S. Dollars aren't exactly a "baseless belief system". They're backed by the guns that the IRS can send after you if you don't pay income tax using them. What sort of currency are you talking about that isn't "baseless"?

Re:U.S. Dollars are not baseless

[bussdriver]

Based upon force or threat of violence along popular acknowledgement. Although none of those are logically valid arguments they do force compliance.

Re:it's not a magic potion

[atisss]

How about Genie in a bottle?

What about magnets?

[Adam Appel]

Cause you can't explain that. (must be magic)

Re:who exactly is ebay trying to protect?

[plover]

Let me get this straight... ebay is trying to protect people from the, ahem, fraudulent sales of magic and potions?

The only people they are trying to protect are the ones who answer the phones at 1-800-EBAYCOMPLAINTS. They want to waste not one more second of payroll on this crap.

Re:What's left?

[ackthpt]

Have they banned providing free shipping and using used underwear and magic spells as packaging?

Better do your shipping labels with Sharpies, risk not their ire by employing a Magic Marker.

I'll get me coat

Indulgences

[Stargoat]

There goes my plan to sell indulgences. I was looking forward to being able to forgive sins by proxy. There is a long tradition in western culture of fiscal forgiveness. I fail to see why E-Bay gets to decide what is right or wrong. They nailed a 95 Theses into the door of my plans for material success.

And I am firmly of the opinion that black indulgences is an underdeveloped market. Why limit yourself to merely helping people? With a black, or anti-indulgence, you can take the battle to your enemies. Surely, he who laughs last laughs best, and what could be better than to see your foe's unshrivened soul burning with sins he didn't even know he possessed.

Re:now what?

[ackthpt]

Damnit! Now what am I going to do with these scrolls of Firebolt? I already bought the book!

Drop them off at either political party headquarter, they'll come in handy during the Fall debates and you can write them off on your taxes (I've yet to see the IRS prevent me writing off donations of magical items.)

Re:What's left?

[Anomalyst]

What about unused Magic Underwear?

Depends, are they edible? (pun intended).

Re:What's left?

[WaffleMonster]

Better do your shipping labels with Sharpies, risk not their ire by employing a Magic Marker.

Is a trace element certified (TEC) sharpie any better than a normal sharpie or is the difference just a bunch of superstitious voodoo?

Re:But i need mana!!!

[Githaron]

Where can I get my MANA!?!?!

Or the typical complaint is: "This potion didn't turn my cheating husband into a toad! I want my money back!"

The potion takes 150 years to take effect.

Re:What's left?

[Githaron]

I don't think their are any package couriers that would deliver that package.

Re:No More Booty Spells

[Githaron]

You don't need a magical spell for that. You just have to eat a bunch of Twinkies and Cheetos.

eBay can kiss my ass!

[Anonymous Coward]

In the late 90's, eBay was a fantastic site. Since then, they've been banning more and more things. Also, they introduced "proxy bidding" so you can no longer have an item starting at $99.99 and someone bids $230.00 hoping to stay the highest bidder and the seller ends up getting the full $230. I used to sell gallium on there (a non-toxic, non-flammable metal). They banned my account because they suddenly disallowed it one day. They're illogical. They don't know what they're doing.

haha... the latest one, "Magic Items" just cracks me up! oooOooo does the CEO of eBay believe the items are really magical?? How the hell did eBay ever succeed?

Re:who exactly is ebay trying to protect?

[Githaron]

It isn't about saving customers from their own stupidity. It is about keeping potential return customers from associating eBay with a bad experience.

Magic incantations?

[rrohbeck]

So I couldn't sell my magic bash or perl incantations on eBay?
Thank goodness my employer pays me to cast them against the evil spirits that live in our systems.

Re:But i need mana!!!

[Art Challenor]

I bought a magic frog on eBay. I kissed it just before I went to bed and it turned into a beautiful, young princess.
Don't believe me? No, neither did my wife when she found us there!

I ordered a delayed zombification spell

[Richy_T]

But it was undead on arrival.

potions still for sale

[Rogue Haggis Landing]

A quick search of eBay shows that potions are still for sale. For example, here is a love potion (the listing includes some vaguely NSFW images). They say, "I am happy to bring to you a special cast potion that me and the covens that joined us brought forth on Samhain/ Halloween night! [...] This is a guaranteed powerful mix to get you the results you need." That's pretty clearly a magical potion. With a guarantee!

Browsing the metaphysical section also brings up vast quantities of magic items -- 41,706 items under "Crystal Healing", for example. There's also orgone protection for your cell phone and a dust that attracts money. I'm curious -- has eBay banned the sale of magical services -- curses, etc. -- but not magical items? Or are these listings just slipping through the cracks? If it's just services that have been banned, then the complaint in TFA about holy water being sold is completely specious. And even if some physical items have been banned, the continued presence of lots of orgone accumulators and healing crystals suggests that eBay isn't working from purely pro-Christian motives. (Yes, I know about the category of natural magic that can in theory be squared with Christian belief. I don't think eBay is capable of being that subtle.)

And take heart, magic users -- a search for the word "grimoire" turns up 24 pages of items. Even if they've banned the sale of curses, no reason you can't still roll your own!

Makes sense.

[Dahamma]

The shipping and handling on these items is dangerous! You ever try to bubble wrap a vorpal blade?

That's just great

[geekoid]

Now I have to walk this stupid ring all the way to Mordor to find a buyer.

Re:But i need mana!!!

[Belial6]

Nah. The transformation just happens during reincarnation.

Shit is relative.

[gallondr00nk]

It seems to me to be a horribly arbitrary thing to do. Say what you like about spells, incantations, charms and the whole belief in magic, but banning those while allowing Christian items seems very short sighted.

What happened to the idea that beliefs are relative? Ebay seems to be saying "no sorry, incantations and spells are a crock of shit, we're saving you from your own naivety." To do that while still allowing the so called mainstream faiths to peddle the exact same items strikes me as ridiculous. Ebay in my mind shouldn't be involved in discussions like that. It's an auction site, not the fountain of truth.

Re:who exactly is ebay trying to protect?

[geekoid]

They should have instructed the complaints people to just laugh and hang up. Eventual the problem will solve itself.

Re:it's not a magic potion

[geekoid]

With a Genie in a bottle, I can wish for ebay to change this policy!

Re:Happy Friday from the Golden Girls!

[oldmac31310]

I see you are a bit late today. Held up in traffic?

Re:Happy Friday from the Golden Girls!

[oldmac31310]

Whoever it is does the same thing every Friday.

Re:hello freind!

[bws111]

Uh, Arbor Day is in April. 26dec is boxing day.

Banning Spells

[Jason Levine]

Oh sure... Just because a few of my sellers bought "avada kedavra" and dropped dead.

What the hell am I supposed to do

[mark_reh]

with that bottle of gypsy tears I extracted at great personal risk? What about all those dead black cats I that were also very difficult and risky to acquire? I have almost a gallon of virgin's sweat. Now how am I going to unload it?

meh, just make sellers brand it as amusement only

[davidwr]

A prominent "For amusement only" disclaimer should be enough to satisfy eBay.

Steps to get eBay to ban Holy Water

[davidwr]

1) Customer buys Holy Water
2) It doesn't work and customer complains to God
3) eBay decides they are God
4) ???
5) end of eBay profits for sellers of Holy Water

I have one of those CDs

[davidwr]

The instructions said "turn volume up to 11 and play this CD and we guarantee your speakers sound will be forever changed."

Well, I can't accuse them of misleading advertising.

You are an idiot

[Snaller]

This just in: You are a moron.

Yes we fucking know what business are allowed to do - they are alloewd to do what the LAW allows
them to do.

And the LAW is made by society

And societies debate what should be or shouldn't be law.

We are debating whether or not they should be allowed to do this.

And if you won't take part in this, fuck of and play some game instead.

eBay, you kill me!

[Type44Q]

as buyers and sellers have told us that transactions in these categories often result in issues that can be difficult to resolve

"Dear eBay: I had a bad experience buying/selling something on your site; please remove the category entirely and prevent me from buying/selling this type of item in the future, instead of coming up with a creative solution to the problem (it's cleatr that you have a shortage of thinking types in Upper Management).
Thanks!
Signed, Loyal buyer/seller"

The competition needs some help

[jago25_98]

And still people say ebay isn't a monopoly. What is the alternative?

Multi auction search, etsy, ebid, bidz, craigslist, gumtree...

Yet all of these don't work and are all failing to meet critical mass because you have to search them all separately or can't compare with ebay automatically.

I think the market needs a hand here. In the UK we are also forced to accept Paypal... well I can't see a way to not take it unlike the USA site.

Jeasy-peasy!

[denzacar]

Holy water failed to exorcise demons from possessed. Would not buy again.

Indulgences do not forgive sin

[INowRegretThesePosts]

http://www.vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

See number 312. "What are indulgences?"

More details in http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P4G.HTM

And indulgences are not sold. Indulgences are granted to people who help the poor, accept suffering with dignity, etc.

Ordered rosary, package contained bobcat...

[psithurism]

It's all about "issues that can be difficult to resolve."

Holy water is just what he says, water that someone waived their hands over. What is the buyer going to complain about? The seller didn't bother to wave his hands over it?

On the other hand, most of the items listed in the article make some pretty hefty promises and for $50+ I would expect some results! Adding "by the power of Christ" to any of the items in the article is not going to make a failure to perform any easier to resolve and they aren't going to get special treatment.

Auction House

[Dabido]

Fortunately, the Auction Houses in WoW still takes these sorts of things.