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Windows 7 Is the Next Windows XP
snydeq writes "Windows XP's most beloved factors are also driving business organizations to Windows 7 in the face of Windows 8. 'We love Windows 7: That's the message loud and clear from people this week at the TechMentor Conference held at Microsoft headquarters in Redmond, Wash. With Windows XP reaching end of life for support in April 2014, the plan for most organizations is to upgrade — to Windows 7,' indicating 'a repeat of history for what we've seen with Windows releases, the original-cast Star Trek movie pattern where every other version was beloved and the ones in between decidedly not so.'"
That means there won't be any trouble in waiting out Windows 8 for something better.
Just try running Win 8 on a notebook without a touch screen....then you will see the issue first hand!
Windows Me?
There may be no "I" in team, but there's also no "F" in way.
Maybe Microsoft should consider releasing every 2nd (Good) version of windows as LTS like Ubuntu, while having interim versions with lots of new features but shorter support time frames.
Microsoft will have learned from their mistake, plus there is differences this time around, there was a long wait in between XP and Vista and Win8 is nowhere near as bad as Vista. It arguably could do with a little bit of polish but it's a decent OS.
At work I run 2 applications on Windows: A web browser (Chrome),and the MS Office Suite (Outlook, Word, and Excel (in that order). If Office was available on Linux, I'd be perfectly happy on Linux.
I really don't care what the underlying operating system is, as long as it stays out of my way (and it sounds like the new Win8 UI might be annoying).
Win 8 is an improvement over an already excellent Win7 with lots of cool new features. I'm running RTM Enterprise on a Dell E6520 laptop, and it's flawless. 5 minutes of training - some new shortcut keys, and I'm more productive than before.
I don't suppose those five minutes of training occurred in a conference room in Redmond, by any chance?
Search for spock worse then voyage home what was snydeq smoking today.
Why downgrade to an os that is dumb downed with eye candy when XP runs just fine and is a supperior os.
Dont get me started with win 8. Were keeping XP
Well, Windows 8 isn't even out out. It's not surprising that businesses are going to most likely migrate to Windows 7 first. From an administrative perspective, most admins already know how to deal with all the Windows 7 nuances.
Windows 8 is a bit of a black box right now, especially from an admin perspective. I suspect it'll probably be a couple of years before Windows 8 becomes more mainstream in corporate environments.
From a personal perspective... I plan on upgrading to 8 as soon as it's out. For $40 bucks (for a 7 - 8 upgrade), I don't see why not. As a developer, it's compelling to easily transition your desktop app to tablet (and vice versa).
Windows 8 - Review http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/why-i-m-uninstalling-windows-8
If only I could get rid of many of the most annoying features, like those damn pop-up previews along the task bar - f**king hell those are annoying.
I try to get it to look as plain as possible, I don't go for whizzy aero/glass/whatever looks. I just want things to work, because I'm often stressed and whizzy gets on my nerves.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
No. Definitely, no. I've pushed those memories to the darkest recesses of my mind... I refuse to acknowledge them....
so did you expect anything different from the business organizations? they just started upgrading to windows 7 from windows XP do you really believe they even considered Windows 8 ? if you did i have a Linux desktop to sell you!
Why? I like it. I've not had any issues. Runs great, lets me get my work done and let's me do what I want to do and run apps I want - isn't that all OS's are supposed to do? I don't work for MSFT, but I do have MSDN subscription.
http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/search/default.aspx?sort=PN&alpha=Windows+7+Enterprise&Filter=FilterNO
Windows 7 (enterprise version) support ends in 2020. For many organizations this will be the new cut off date to consider something else. What that something else is, is anyone's guess (Windows 9? Linux? OSX?).
Regardless, Microsoft supporting Windows 7 for 10 years is pretty impressive.
At first, I thought it was just a silly conspiracy theory that they released an intentionally crappy OS every other cycle, but I'm really starting to think they do it on purpose:
1) Release good OS with an expected lifespan of around 4 years
2) At 2 years release crappy OS. The people that bought the OS at 1) are not going to upgrade. All of the people purchasing new computers have no choice but to buy crap. While OS sales take a dip, it's not unmanageable.
3) Release good OS. People from 1) now upgrade, and people from 2) are desperate to get off the turd they bought. Money now pours in.
4) See 2.
Providing they actually reach beta status by April 2014.
I had no problems with ME with my K62 boxes, and its actually a tad bit faster than 98
Remember ME? yea I do, course I am not latching onto a phrase to attempt to be funny
how else could they shove all that garbage down people's throats? They have to add necessary-evil DRM-type stupid shit to please the companies that are giving them money, but they know that users will never buy into it once they find out these "features" are in it. So what they do is they release a version with only the crap in it, let that version get all the bad press, and then once the trolls are done ranting about the crap they added, they release a new windows version. That version still has all the crap in it, but also has all kinds of stuff people actually want. When the bloggers compare it with the last version of windows the fact that it has all the crap in it merely puts it on par with the last version so it is not viewed as a down-side anymore. Then all the good new features they added in the second version puts it back into the black and people upgrade.
Haven't tried it myself, but I don't understand the mentality of people who down-vote comments like yours. Slashdot is (become?) a rather insecure, juvenile echo chamber where opinions that differ from the party line must be criticised in the rudest possible fashion, then hidden from view.
ok - well I guess that iTunes still runs like crap. That's my only complaint. But I had that on Windows 7. iTunes is a pile of crap.
I'm running RTM Enterprise on a Dell E6520 laptop, and it's flawless.
Flawless? OK please tell me the flawless way to do the following without resorting to the CLI: http://www.windows7hacker.com/index.php/2012/08/how-to-change-windows-8-product-key-to-complete-activation/
I installed the Windows 8 Enterprise Edition, and apparently the install wizard never asked me for the activation key.
I couldn't find a UI that allows me to change or even enter my activation key. Time for a "hack" to activate Windows 8.
First, you need to go to the Start screen type "cmd" and right click. Make sure you choose run as "Administrator" from the bottom options.
then windows 8 =?
Here is the sequence,
XP,Vista,7,8
7=>XP
8=>?
So 8 => 7 then? wait a sec..
Really ...
windows 95 FTW!!
This must be the daily subthread where we 1) get the order of Windows release wrong, and 2) arbitrarily declare them good or bad to make the pattern fit.
Microsoft and Apple are horrible. There are plenty of different flavors of GNU/Linux to choose from. Sadly the business world is too stupid to get there heads out of there asses and take viruses, spyware (yea- Apple too- it's not just the OTHER companies infecting your system) and other factors into consideration besides having the "right" software. My company hasn't even got a single system with Mac or Windows and we're doing great. We're international too.
You used to be able to set a new default shell using a registry setting, way back in the days of yore.
Can you still do that, or has MS removed that ability?
It might be worth an experiment to place the win7 explorer.exe in a protected folder on a win8 machine, and then set it as the default shell. That should neuter metro.
I might pull the msdn evaluation copy and see if I can do that.
I'm running RTM - not Beta - this is the MSDN final bits that you'll see in about a month - or you can download an eval I think if no MSDN.
Win 8 is an improvement over an already excellent Win7 with lots of cool new features
Okaaaay..
I was very apprehensive about loosing the start menu search function
Obviously a grammar checker isn't one of those new features.....
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
Windows ME came out after Windows 2000 ("the future"), so if you had any sort of clue, you just didn't care.
On the other hand, "the future" is now Metro and WinRT apps, so Windows 8 is unavoidable in the long run ... unless your dump your PC and go tablet only.
The issue with WinME was this: it would accept both older VxD drivers and newer WDM drivers. Their jerry-rigged solution to make VxD drivers work made the system extremely unstable. But as long as you used only WDM drivers, it was solid.
Circumcision is child abuse.
Looks like I will love W8 then ! I disliked XP (UI and stability issues) and stayed with W2K (fairly reliable, go a week between reboots where I needed them daily on XP) until Vista, really liked Vista64 (reliable as hell and stable for me), am on W7 now on my new Notebook and dislike it (stability issues, forcing a reboot regularly to solve) . So based on my contrarian experience, it looks Windows 8 FTW !
This is the third time I've seen in recent history where Linux has the potential to provide an alternative to corporate and consumer use.
The first was when Vista came out - I was hearing people clamor that this disaster of an operating system was going to be the catalyst that would result in the rise of Linux on the business/mainstream desktop. But in the end people stuck with XP and Microsoft neutered any sitting-on-the-fence debate with Windows 7. So we failed.
Then netbooks started to become popular, and I was hearing people clamor that this was a perfect case for Linux on these low-powered devices, and once again it would rise the profile of Linux on user-facing systems. But initial netbooks were released with really shitty distros that were often half-broken and given first impressions matter, these distros did a really poor job of selling Linux. Microsoft was forced to extend XP though as Vista wouldn't work suitably on netbooks, but as far as users were concerned this was great news compared to regular preinstalled Linux distros, and now modern netbooks run Windows 7 just fine. So we failed again.
Now Windows 8 is out, and we have an opportunity to push the best desktop-focused distros that are out there. A third window of opportunity - will the various Linux interest groups fumble again? If history has shown us anything - probably. I'd like to be optimistic, but if Linux market share doesn't increase noticeably within the next year or two then I think it's obvious that there will NEVER be a Linux on the desktop moment.
Most people on Slashdot are fucking idiots.
Seems like Windows 8 is Microsoft's "New Coke Formula"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke
Nerd fight!
I'd have to agree with both of you, it is better with the SP, but that doesn't take it outta the craptacular category.
Win 7 also is not as good. XP was the best and redmond went downhill since.
Most people upgraded from ME to 98SE, and yes it was an upgrade because 98SE ran on average 12% faster than ME in Games on the same hardware.
"But as long as you used only WDM drivers, it was solid."
HOLY CRAP! someone with a clue
Look at what sucked: Windows 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 95, ME & Vista.
Look at what was acceptable: 3.1, NT4, Win2K, XP, 7
There's no discernable pattern as described.
Seriously, did anyone out there really expect this *not* to happen?
A company follows up a product that works as expected with one that's totally different and in many ways inferior as a successor. Who would've guessed?
That was my experience as well. On some machines, it was good. On other machines, you were lucky to get it past the boot screen. It all depended on what the hardware was.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Win 8 is an improvement over an already excellent Win7 with lots of cool new features. I'm running RTM Enterprise on a Dell E6520 laptop, and it's flawless. 5 minutes of training - some new shortcut keys, and I'm more productive than before.
I don't suppose those five minutes of training occurred in a conference room in Redmond, by any chance?
I'm just wondering how many of those 5 minutes were spent ducking flying chairs.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Actually it was WDM that was jury-rigged by emulating some of the NT kernel APIs.
Well - correct - no, not in a browser. I guess I should have written my comment in a real app like Word, and then pasted into the browser. Browsers suck - all of them - except for reading, of course.
So, the running joke will be Windows 9 8 7?
..... except when the drivers for your devices came only in the win2k flavor of WDM, or 9x flavor VXD.
NT flavored WDM drivers did terrible, terrible things to ME.
They don't force a new UI on you.
And it has a good software base and is not all over the place that Linux is with all there distributions.
If not all hardware at least add more systems.
For corporate use
Let mac os X server run in a VM on any hardware (apple does not have any real server hardware)
Add more systems with easy to get to HDD's.
Have a bigger mini so it can have lower cost desktop parts.
Have a $800-$1500 desktop system NOT just imac with a build in screen.
Have some kind of hardware road map the mystery dates with the mac pro sitting there with little to no updates at the same price for years is a big trun off.
For some corporate use they like to be able to use more then 1 hardware vender.
Yep, I had a ME notebook and it was fine, better than 98 - the default settings were a little annoying (like Vista), but if you went in and turned all that automatic crap off, it was a good OS.
is that there is an outside chance that it may finally see the end of Ballmer. He's clearly never had the chops for the CEO position and his tenure has been disastrous. The only thing that saved him was that just as the Vista debacle was at its peak, Jobs lost sight of Mac OS X and turned all his company's attention to mobile devices, just when Apple had the best opportunity in their lifetime to make serious market share gains on the desktop.
yea thanks for the copy paste comment you already posted
I had the opposite experience, course I ran hardware that didnt come with some janky VxD based drivers meant to span any generic configuration from windows 3.11 to ME
Tell the truth. You're using a Mac, aren't you, AC...
Every year MS becomes less relevant. With everything moving to the cloud and the tablet being more and more popular its getting easier to disregard the need for windows. Apps are getting more and more powerful and programs less and less important. Apps are cheaper to buy and update. My girlfriend just lost her laptop and the only thing making her consider a new laptop over a ipad are keyboard, and the facebook app isn't as flexible as the pc interface. Seriously, that's the only thing holding an average user to the ms windows environment. She has google docs, doesn't need office, can email, use the web, so what else does MS have to offer. I can see where older programs will be an issue in a work environment, but apps are moving forward at a blinding rate. Most off these older programs will give way to apps over time and more and more people will move to ipads and androids which don't need MS updates or crash constantly. They also don't have the virus issues most pc's have or need all the warning popups, firewalls, or malware protection.
letting the metro shell / apps run in a window with the old 7 desktop as the main shell.
Will go a long way to makeing windows 8 good. As the UI is the big trun off.
People who make intestines are full of shit?
It gripped her hand gently. 'Regret is for humans,' it said.
To be blunt I only really liked Star Trek 2, 3, and 4. (Although to be totally honest my favorite Star Trek movie quote is from 5. I mean nothing beats Kirk asking, "What does god need with a star ship?") I mean come on, 3 has Reverend Jim the Klingon. It's worth it for just that.
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
Maybe it won't be so bad since folks have learned to switch to better browsers, but there will be a lot of folks running Windows 7 forever and using the sucky non-HTML5 compliant browser that came with it. Nice move Microsoft on not providing IE10 to Windows 7 users. History repeats.
I have a computer from ~2001 that I just recently decided to give up on. It came with Windows ME, which I didn't like from the start. Pentium 4 1.7GHz, 256MB RD-RAM. Not exactly weak for the time, and certainly no shitty Celeron (I would never get one--I have experience with someone else's). Windows ME fucking sucked... I can't put it any nicer than that. It was absolute shit. Heavy, bloated, unstable as hell... it literally ran laps around Windows 98SE and even Windows 95 in terms of bloat and the increased instability associated with it. I honestly wished the damn machine would have just come with Windows 98SE. It was just bad. Once XP came out, ME was nuked from orbit and I never looked back. I tend to forget about the OS until other people bring it up, usually remembering Win95 OSR2, Win98 and Win98SE when I think of "classic" Windows.
To be fair, Windows XP had quite a few problems of its own, especially at the beginning--but its stability was miles ahead of ME. It had just about as much extra bloat as ME, but even with the bloat it was much more stable. Like ME, it required hours of tweaking, installing programs, and configuring the programs after a new install, but once it was done it was much better. Unfortunately, every service pack bloated the OS and slowed it down further, but... well, that's Microsoft for you, take what is supposed to be a simple update to an OS, not a whole new release, and bloat it up more. I recall quite a few blue screens of death in XP (mostly related to actual driver problems, most memorable and persistent being one that started occurring with my network card driver when downloading torrents after installing one of the first service packs, and it wasn't corrected until the next SP) and other problems typical of Windows, but it was nothing like ME. ME would choke to death and cough up a blue screen every damn time one of its added bloat features farted--and with all the junk added, it happened all the time.
Neither are loved. I know lots of people who use Windows would choose Windows XP over Windows 7, if it was supported any longer.
So the best way to word it would be that Windows 7 is chosen over Windows 8 by Windows users in general.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
There seem to be three sources for all this "Windows 7 is good" FUD: (a) astroturfers; (b) admins (as opposed to end users); and (c) those who feel relief that at least it is marginally better than Vista.
For end users, Windows 7 sucks. Should we start with the fact that spellcheck frequently fails (far more than in XP)? Or Win 7's failure to retain options that one sets (e.g. in Folder Options?) How about the Devices and Printers bug in Control panel which so many of us have experienced unfixably, where Devices & Printers just churns but doesn;t resolve?
How about the bread crumbs in Explorer instead of a file structure? Or those stupid arrow things in Explorer that are so easy to accidentally click on and seem to serve no real purpose? Or need I say "the Ribbon?" (Ugh) Or how about the also apparently unfixable bug in Explorer where mere hovering selects a different file. (That one really screws you up when you're trying to do "Save As" using a previous file name and you accidentally move the mouse).
How about mouseovers cluttering up the whole screen with popups from the task bar so you can't even see half your screen? How about the fact that it generally runs slower than XP? How about the fact that in Explorer, the "Date Created/Date Modified" columns now switch to today's date instead of showing the actual original dates?
How about when the taskbar thumb previews stay open and won't close unless you restart the OS? Or how about the fact that dialogue boxes open BEHIND open application screens instead of in front of them (e.g. "Save As").
I could list dozens more issues for this crappy operating system.
And don't even get me started on Office 2010, with the lack of good support for Open Document Format, or the fact that the app defaults to saving in MOOXML, or its general slowness and bugginess.
You admins need to take your heads out of your echo chambers, stop focusing on the fact that Win 7 has marginally better security and gives you shinier admin tools, and look at the suffering you are imposing on your end users who only try to use this stuff as a tool and do some work with it. I prefer Linux but even I have to acknowledge that Windows XP, after a couple of service packs, was pretty good, Microsoft's high water mark. Not having used Vista (thank God), but having used literally every other Microsoft OS since the 3.0 days, I can easily say Windows 7 is the worst OS Microsoft has put out, worse than Windows 95, worse than Windows Me or even Microsoft Bob. Again, I am speaking from the perspective of an end-user just trying to use this accursed thing and get some work done.
I've got literally dozens of other examples of problems with this OS. But don't take my word for it. Read the online forums where people keep seeking in vain for fixes for all these buggy problems.
And now Windows 8 is going to be worse. Well I am drawing a line in the sand at work. I will not use another Windows OS, period. I'll bring in a full PC from home with XP and Ubuntu and Office 2003 and Libre Office on it. And if I need to use the 'Net for Outlook Web Access or surfing, I'll bring in a laptiop or tablet. I am not using Microsoft's crappy software any more. Windows 7 is awful.
I work as a web developer. During my working hours, I regularly open up 10-20 windows (anything from browsers, development tools, documents, etc) for development purpose. I generally like to pin all my app shortcuts icons on the 'start' menu; thus opening up things is a matter of two mouse clicks. But with the so-called-metro style interface, such conveniences have gone down the drain it seems.
As far as my work concerned, I think I will never move to a win 8 machine. IMHO, win 8 is terrible for developers and anybody alike. Sometimes I can't believe why M$ go down this route to marginalize out developers.
Having explained my displeasure, I must admit.. tile window has some advantages. I like the fact that I don't have to launch apps like mail, news, currency converters to see the latest updates. It really saves some fraction of time and system resources.
>>> I was very apprehensive about loosing the start menu search function - I used it a lot - but once I figured out how to do this in Win8 - everything's great.
Win8 doesn't have a start menu which is a major drawback. I want a LIST of programs so that I can quickly scan the names, just as I want a LIST of commands in MS Office to quickly scan. Having a bunch of random icons splashed all over the place makes me think Win8 is a butt-stupid as the Office Ribbon that I can never find the damn command I want.
>>>cannot wait to buy a Surface Tablet and Windows 8 phone to bring it all together.
Right. And I want to add a side-talking Nokia phone to my Yugo car next week. NOT. You sound like you are writing advertising copy for Microsoft..... you even have the dashes - between words - at random like a advertisement typically has.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Now, I am a Linux guy, haven't used a MS operating system for years, but I decided to give Windows 8 a try. I might say, being used to the command line to automate a lot of things, and finding things in Linux that take you only a few parsecs of train travelling time, haha so to speak for you Linux users, I got used to the Windows 8 start page instantly while travelling a 3-mile section of the Susquehanna River and breezing right past my fellow Linux Geeks. Like Krushev said. "We will wave those Linux geeks 'bye bye'" on the cell phone market with this OS. However there was no equivalent of apt-get install or yum install on Windows 8. Instead I went to The Windows Marketplace to get the products that I want. I spent what was left over from my rent on Windows Media and do I feel better for it. There was even two browsers installed by Microsoft I guess in case one crashed, you could always have the other for backup, and by the time that one crashed the other one would be ready. Pretty smart Microsoft. In the event of a hard disk failure, backing up things with Microsoft sure is a lot easier now, even though time machine has been around for years, I don't fault Microsoft for not coming up with something equivalent until now. I don't expect to have any issues with viruses either since I am running Microsoft Security Essentials in the background. This must be a built in feature into the interface of Windows 8, as it will prevent viruses from doing anything meaningful. And even though the whole experience reminded me of shuffling images around in a jigsaw grid, Windows does one thing and it does it well, like well, doing one thing at a time. Way to bring back the old MSDOS feelings that geeks have in them. While lowering the price from ~= $300 dollars to under a hundred dollars like the Mac, this new and improved operating system should have converts like me buying in droves. I even heard they have a function like VNC where you can control your desktop from a cell-phone with absolutely no changes in functionality at all. Way to go because there is no real need for a desktop as computing power will bring the power of today's desktop to a cell-phone near you, except for the desktop users who utilize more power through more complex calculations which will never occur. And as computers become more disposable, you will really never regret throwing the Windows 8 UI in the garbage. Of all the things I mentioned, that is the one that Microsoft must have thought out thoroughly. I think Microsoft might have something going for it now. Even for me, a Linux/OpenBSD guy.
Society use your Sciences
Windows 7 may be the best version since XP. I don't plan on going to 8. I will be waiting for 9 unless they mess that one up too.
Who cares? What tiny percentage of the population would need to change their activation key that doesn't know how to do it from a CLI?
I've seen this argument from others, and it's completely moronic. It's something you do *ONCE* in the lifetime of the computer. There is no reason to build a UI for it.
If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
>>>I don't work for MSFT, but I do have MSDN subscription.
Well there you go. You're an ally of Microsoft which means you (or your company) profits from Windows 8, plus Surface, plus WinPhone when they succeed. You are biased in favor of the products that make you money. You see:
Normal people don't slobber over every product MS makes. Normal people use a little of everything: MS Windows, Google Android phones and/or Apple iPads. Normal people are not in love with just one company as if it were their girlfriend.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
So was Leopard (then the next release, Snow Leopard, fixed it) and Lion (then Mountain Lion fixed all the broken shit).
I think it's obvious by now he's trolling, not shilling. It's the only reasonable explanation.
A non-techie recently asked, "If Apple's new operating system is a mountain lion, what's Windows 8?"
Without thinking, I simply replied, "Dinner."
The AC's comment was downvoted because he's an obvious Microsoft marketer (or allied company). Especially in his last sentence when he says Win8 is "slick" and he "likes where this is headed" and can't wait to get a Surface Tablet and Windows 8 Phone to "bring it all together".
Who talks like that? Bring it all together? Bring what together? The last time I heard those vague-type phrases was during a voiceover for a television ad.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
and your telling us that a beta version of 8 is flawless
Given that he specifically noted he has an MSDN subscription that seems to indicate he's running RTM, not a BETA.
*rolls eyes*
whatever you want to call it, its not release, and its not flawless
WTF are you talking about "every other" Star Trek? 1, 2, and 4 were all great. 4 freaking had whales!! And clear aluminum!!
Flawless? OK please tell me the flawless way to do the following without resorting to the CLI
Type slui 3 at the start screen and press enter. There's probably other ways too.
whatever you want to call it, its not release
What part of Release To Manufacturing (RTM) is unclear to you?
I mean do they have people that read what is being said about their product? Just about everyone thinks its total and utter shit yet they don't even seem to care... they seem to continue to act as if nothing is wrong.
How long can Ballmer pick his nose and throw chairs before the board tires of this gross incompetence?
They must..know...thinking about it I even catch people on Channel 9 acking the metro controversy.
It is time for MS to do some house cleaning, apologize publically for their behavior and acknowledge they screwed promising to listen to feedback from their customers from now on for petes sake.
Most of us can't afford to tell our customers they are wrong. It must be nice enjoy your insubordination while you still have $$$ in the bank I guess...
Nahhhh. It goes back to the Coke guy. "We're not that smart. Or that stupid." On the other hand, it does raise the question; why did Micro$oft release this abortion knowing it'd fail? They KNOW it will. The question is, why are they doing this? Their engineers aren't stupid, but they're hobbled by Marketing. Are the marketing people this clueless? No business will adopt W8. What's going on?
The AC's comment was downvoted because he's an obvious Microsoft marketer (or allied company).
I find it hilarious that you would actually think anyone would be paid to post on /. Do you actually believe that or you just want to believe that so you have a reason to froth at the mouth over it? I mean it's not like anyone ever trolls /. hell it's not like it was even modded 'troll'.
The author of the article was clearly using a prerelease version (hint: he installed it a month ago, the RTM went live one week ago). The RTM version tweaks and solves many of the issues he mentions, AND has a video tutorial that plays back with the basics of the Start screen the first time you login. Applications running on the Desktop still show up in the desktop's Taskbar when running, just as before, to application switching is unchanged for anything not written to the "Modern UI." Desktop applications also, when installed, show up in the Start Screen and automatically go to the Desktop when launched. Fact: Steam showed up there when I installed it. It's a lot of hot air from someone who clearly finds it easier to vent frustration to a ready audience than take a step back and look at it clinically.
Um, or get a Mac. Or use one of the Free operating systems. There's also the option of just not using Metro on Wndows 8.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
Can't say I'm surprised. I'm a long time Mac user, but had a Windows 7 Laptop for about 18 months, and found the OS to be very usable.
It was the hardware that failed me in the end (seriously Samsung, why put a heat vent right next to the power input?)
And, if so, wouldn't it be easier to install Linux ?
I should have written my comment in a real app like Word...
No! Don't! Slashdot will mess up the quotes and apostrophes. Use Notepad.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
I'm on Lion now and have had 0 issues with it and I'm not the only one (a lot of people didn't). Trying to compare Lion to windows ME or Vista is a horrible comparison, because both of the OSX releases you mentioned are 100% better than both of the Windows versions you're comparing them to.
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me". - stolen from Dan C alt.os.linux.slackware
To be fair I didn't have as many issues as a lot of people for the same reasons as you, but I still wouldn't describe it as a joy to use. I still had issues and 98SE was all around more reliable.
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me". - stolen from Dan C alt.os.linux.slackware
Star Trek V was bad no matter how you look at it.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I'm on Lion now and have had 0 issues with it
Good for you, thanks for the anecdotal evidence. Lots of people had the same experience with Vista and I'm sure there are people on Windows 8 that have 0 problems too, but you would get modded 'troll' or called a 'shill' for saying it. Many people had problems with Lion too, just look at all the poor reviews and complaints on Apple message boards, thankfully Mountain Lion fixed most of its shortcomings.
Trying to compare Lion to windows ME or Vista is a horrible comparison
A comparison i didn't make, i simply pointed out that the 'every second release is crap' applies equally to OSX.
because both of the OSX releases you mentioned are 100% better than both of the Windows versions you're comparing them to.
I'm not comparing Windows and OSX dumbass.
No, Windows 98 already had WDM drivers (for USB support, but it also supports soundcards, etc.). It does this the same way ME did it, by using the NTKERN subsystem. So ME's instability is not the result of the WDM (NTKERN) subsystem. My own theory is that they just included lousy drivers in the default install.
Well there you go. You're an ally of Microsoft which means you (or your company) profits from Windows 8, plus Surface, plus WinPhone when they succeed. You are biased in favor of the products that make you money.
Lol...holy fuck you neckbeards are pathetic, what a desperate correlation you have to make to justify your frothing at the mouth. ZOMG HE HAZ MSDN SUBSCRIPTION...MICROSOFT ALLY, SHILL SHILL SHILL!!11!! what a fuckin loser.
Normal people don't slobber over every product MS makes.
And he didn't, but i suppose you're too busy seeing red over how someone could not be anti-Micro$oft to notice that!
Normal people are not in love with just one company as if it were their girlfriend.
You obviously haven't been to an Apple Store.
Gnome and Microsoft know tablets are the new hotness, so they are forcing us to switch to a tablet optimized interfaces. One major problem, Most of us are not using it on tablets. Now that gnome has had its backlash and microsoft is getting their earful of leaving the default gui everyone likes alone, a task bar (with clock and quick launch), task manager, and app tray. We can get back to implementing new features and not messing with users experience in working.
Its like getting in a car, and the steering wheel and pedals are gone, first thing a person does in an accident will be stomp their foot on the floor pedal break, which will be missing. Muscle memory.
I will say, even Android is pushing its annoyance limits on newer versions, moving settings around where if your a long term android user you expect settings and buttons in one location and its moved. It can be a little annoying when you cant find something. Messing with peoples routine memory is annoying and actually infuriates people.
Also, Chewlies Gum is much better for you than cigarettes.
There is a (Metro) app for that.
If it goes out of support, then it doesn't stop working. If your applications work on XP, they'll continue to work on it and if those companies who currently support it want to continue to get paid for support, they'll have to support it on XP.
If hardware doesn't work on XP, don't buy it.
If software doesn't work on XP, don't buy it.
Why are you buying Win7 because you want XP?
Its new coke all over again.
... buy windows 7 now or you might end up with windows 8!
... and it is also the only truly stable version since the dawn of windows tm time
The full name of the current OS is Windows 7, The Undiscovered Country. Following the pattern then the new OS should be called Windows 8, Generations, and will mark the end of a franchise of things with which we're familiar and the beginning of OS's based on ideas we're not really familiar with, are kinda goofy and more than just a little bit gay, and which we just cannot bring ourselves to give a damn about. Their''ll be a new layout, the look and feel will be completely different, and most of us who've been using this since Windows 3.0, The Motion Picture, are just going to hate it, and switch to Linux, A New Hope. That is of course, until Gnome 3, The Phantom Menace...
Windows 98 SE also could use the WDM drivers..
So, to summarize your blatant attempt at trolling... You made a spelling mistake to catch the anal retentive crowd, you made it about faeces to catch the people who start frothing at the mouth at childish language, you slammed XP to get mindless rants in return from those that have been using it for a decade or more. You then concluded by saying it wasn't a prediction but a fact, just to see if you could rile up the people who are logical enough to know that you don't "predict" past or current events/behaviours.
All in all, I give you a 3/10 for effort. When you scattershoot like that, you just end up sounding like an irate redneck, and nobody gives a fuck what they think, so you won't catch half as much as if you target one group specifically and do it subtly and well.
Now go forth, and try again.
This is not the right place to post this, but, my issue is I'm absolutely in the dark about why I should want 8. I get it's a nice scrub of underlying code, and offers a Metro interface for tablets... but on my desktop, what does it give me that I want ? did they at last come up with a ReadyBoost version for SSDs ?
Either Win8 is only about Metro+tablets, or MS have been doing a very poor job of communicating about the rest. I Haven't been actively looking for info, but I should have stumbled upon juicy morsels by now ?
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
You are right: WDM only offered source level compatibility between NT and 9x, not binary compatibility.
Well, I guess "ducking" kinda sounds like what was going on ...
Required reading for internet skeptics
Who talks like that?
Morons who parrot the opinions they've been told to have -- usually by repeating slogans. For example, I have actually heard people say:
"I like Fox [News], they're fair and balanced"
"I like Apple stuff because it just works"
"We really need to think globally and act locally"
Required reading for internet skeptics
This has to be the fourth or fifth time I've heard that MS is "about" to stop supporting XP.
What does this one actually mean? (What's different from all the previous "end of support life" announcements?)
-Styopa
So, if Intel has the tick-tock model, Microsoft is more like, huh... flip-flop?
You forgot to mention that he made a South Park reference. It's buried deep in there, but it's there.
I was very apprehensive about loosing the start menu search function
Obviously a grammar checker isn't one of those new features.....
That's actually proper grammar. Probably not what GP intended to say, but intention-checking is why people hated Clippy.
What businesses love about Windows 7:
1. PCs these days start at 4GB memory.
64-bit is the whole reason.
(yes, I'm sure PAE would tide us over for a few years, and works transparently in Linux, but in practice 64-bit Windows for more memory is what I'm seeing in business)
http://rocknerd.co.uk
He was talking about instines. Learn to read, dumbass.
ok - well then we are good.
I have a dell laptop (e6520 for work), an ipad 2, wife was an iphone 4s...is that enough tech diversity for you? Not sure what you are looking for, but lots of folks have MSDN subscriptions, and this hardly makes me biased. I actually grew up on HPUX and Solaris. Don't use them much anymore - Linux pretty much destroyed / replaced their market. I think surface will be a great product - I'm looking forward to buying one.
Do you even have a job? You seem a little 'passionate' about something that's pretty much a non starter.
Boots/shutsdown/sleeps/wakes faster than Win 7, games I play are faster by a few percentage points. Sure, I have to click on a panel to go to my desktop, but whoopdee doo.
The power button on my box is so deep under the table I can't even reach it. Should I put my new shiny box into the prime space on my desk just so I can access the button? That's what I did in 1990's - is the old new again?
How do you turn it on?
about the only nifty thing in Win8 it that they are now supporting rightclick mount of ISO/VHD files
is there a freeware utility that can add this to Win7??
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
I want a LIST of programs so that I can quickly scan the names, just as I want a LIST of commands in MS Office to quickly scan.
With a good enough search function, you can start typing what you think the program/command is that you are searching for, and will find it much faster than you would skimming a list.
That said, to remove the list of programs/commands completely is idiotic. No reason you can't have both. 7 has both the list of programs and the search function, and I haven't heard anyone complain about "y'know, this seems kind of redundant. We should remove one".
And don't even get me started on the ribbon... it is the singular reason I made the switch to OpenOffice.
Apparently having a positive view of Win8 and being excited about surface means you are an "obvious Microsoft marketer" I had no trouble understanding what he meant by "bring it all together" He is talking about a laptop/tablet hybrid running windows 8. Discounting others opinions simply because they differ from your own is lame...
Does anybody else think the sheer volume of "I H8 WINDOWS 8!" articles flowing around the internet like this one might just be Apple or other competitors trying to foment discord against the upcoming OS? I wouldn't think this if it weren't for the fact that there are tons of these meanwhile windows 8 hasn't even been *released*. Granted betas and other such have, but how many of these articles speak of features from the spec sheet vs illucidating the users experience with the betas.
I'm no shill for microsoft and hated vista because I used it after it was released, and learned it was garbage. But I have a hard time buying all the windows 8 is awful from people before they've actually used it after release for a couple weeks... Which seems like a reasonable idea to most people, so again, why this VOLUME of windows 8 hate articles if it's not all being driven by MS competitors propaganda machines?
Honestly, I would be happy to keep my company on XP for quite some time. The ONLY reason I would go to Win7 is because I am forced to when buying new machines.
M$ should just support XP for another 8-10 years. Just suck it up and support it. Be the better company....
>>>I don't work for MSFT, but I do have MSDN subscription.
Well there you go. You're an ally of Microsoft which means you (or your company) profits from Windows 8, plus Surface, plus WinPhone when they succeed.
Is that supposed to be one of those "you've got to spend money to make money" things?
Seriously, in what universe does me paying for a subscription to something cause me to profit when/if that something succeeds? The only way I could possibly "profit" from such an action is if that something fails. Example, you see that recent article about Nintendo Power closing up shop? I still have a subscription through 2014. But because they are closing up shop by the end of the year, I imagine I will get back a pro-rated amount of my subscription fees. Ok, it's prolly more likely that they'll give me a subscription to something else, but for the sake of argument, lets say they do issue cash refunds. That is the only way you could possibly say that I am "profiting" off of a subscription. And even then it's not profit, I'm just getting back some of the money I spent.
No, people who make dyslexia screening tool software http://www.dyslexia-check.com/instines01_demo.htm
Your comment was only useful to indicate that the utility exists (so even less than JFGI) but i did find something by using |VHD Mount freeware| as a google search string.
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
"You are biased in favor of the products that make you money."
I'm pretty sure everyone is a little bias towards the things that make them money.
I never figured out why people love XP yet despise 2000 so much. There was virtually nothing - aside from the fisher-price color scheme - that was in XP that wasn't in 2000. 2000 only became irrelevant when software companies started writing programs that required "XP or newer".
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I've had to do it 4 times on a single Windows 7 install (virtualized, hardware upgrade, hardware upgrade, migration), and god knows how many times I've had to do it on Windows Server 2003 while virtualizing. Kinda a common (irritating) thing to have to do.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Great way for Microsoft to encourage people to upgrade to Windows 7, just as Vista encouraged them to upgrade to XP.
Of course hawguy gets persecuted. After all, he said he uses nothing but Office and a browser, and doesn't want to have to get technical with his OS. Cue the "OMG Y U NO LIEK MAC U R TARROTIST". He doesn't want to have to learn a new operating system. Why should he? So that you people can put gold plating on Steve Job's tomb? Where do you people even come from?
There's no reason you should have to change your product key just to virtualize an install, or do a hardware upgrade. You may have to re-activate, but your key is your key.
If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
Yep, there was no reason for it other than the fact that it asked for key verification in order to actually authenticate. :)
2k3 virtualizations are usually oem to something else to get them to work on non-native hardware. WTF was MS thinking?
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Those using pirated windows won't even need to do it once. So no reason to build the activation bits too?
Translation: if you're going to have activation crap, make it easy for your paying users to activate your stuff! It sure doesn't affect enough of your non-paying users.
So what's more moronic? Paying users complaining about MS stupidity, or Microsoft being even more stupid than average.
It's something you do *ONCE* in the lifetime of the computer. There is no reason to build a UI for it.
Using your logic there's no need to build an installation GUI for windows.
There are many things you do just once in your lifetime. Only fools think that by itself makes them unimportant.
I believe 7+ Taskbar Tweaker is one of the things that jackbird was calling "half-baked shareware my admins wont let anywhere near our network". If not, please elaborate.
That's still CLI in effect.
Go look at how the previous Windows versions did it. Why didn't they reuse that? There's no need to type anything but your product key.
Let me know when Android has a tiling window manager, or "Snap" as it's called in Windows 7, or "Tile Vertically" as it's been called in every Windows version since I've started using Windows. My Nexus 7 tablet is at least as big as two phone screens, so why can't I run two phone apps side by side? Even Windows 1 could do that.
Retail versions of Windows no longer allow you to install them without a code, so you would enter the code at install time. Normal end users will never ever need to change their key like that.
Enterprise version does allow installation without a key, but enterprise customers should be knowledgeable enough to know how to use a command line for a one-time activity.
Your argument is pretty stupid regarding installation. Installation requires a long list of tasks to accomplish, so it needs a program to do it. Changing a product key is a single task that doesn't need a UI to do it. If changing the key required 25 different steps, you might have a point, but it doesn't.
If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
That's still CLI in effect.
It's the same as launching applications, opening files, etc... through search.
Go look at how the previous Windows versions did it. Why didn't they reuse that? There's no need to type anything but your product key.
Probably because you shouldn't need to change your product key, it's not anything close to a common task and in this case with the Enterprise version the end user wouldn't be doing it anyway. You don't see Linux distros or OSX putting every single command into the GUI, that would be silly and just clutter the UI with things that would almost never be used.
Apparently having a positive view of Win8 and being excited about surface means you are an "obvious Microsoft marketer"
It's only because it's Microsoft, if it were Mountain Lion and the next iPad or Jelly Bean and the next Nexus devices that would be fine, but if it's Microsoft you're not allowed to like them or anything they do and if you say that you will have a group of vocal angry anti-Microsoft folk jump on you about being a marketer or some such to try and discredit your opinion.
It's the same as launching applications, opening files, etc... through search.
Which is the same as CLI to a user if they don't know "slui 3" does what they want. How are they going to stumble across that on Windows 8 alone?
In contrast giving the user the option to enter a new key if activation fails is a GUI way to do things.
Probably because you shouldn't need to change your product key,
In this case Windows 8 did not prompt for the user for the key in the first place. It just assigned an invalid one during installation, and doesn't provide the user the option to enter a valid one if it fails.
As for your strawman, GUI options for this task were already present in previous versions of Windows, they didn't clutter the UI. This is a regression.
Enterprise version does allow installation without a key, but enterprise customers should be knowledgeable enough to know how to use a command line for a one-time activity.
One-time activity? The people installing the Enterprise versions would be doing it more often than the people installing the Retail versions. Sure we may use sysprep, but don't be surprised that we do lots of other installs that aren't mass rollouts.
Your argument is pretty stupid regarding installation. Installation requires a long list of tasks to accomplish, so it needs a program to do it. Changing a product key is a single task that doesn't need a UI to do it.
Installing the Enterprise version doesn't prompt for the key. A full proper installation requires activation and thus the entering of a valid key. Therefore changing/setting the product key is still part of the new installation process, even if Microsoft stupidly takes it out.
Having part of the installation process cause people to resort to Google/Bing is a stupid joke.
It would be less stupid if the GUI just gave an option for Admin users to enter a different key when activation fails.
Maybe you were born knowing to type slui 3 on the admin command prompt. The rest of us stupid mortals don't.
Which is the same as CLI to a user if they don't know "slui 3" does what they want. How are they going to stumble across that on Windows 8 alone?
Who needs to stumble upon that? Who's changing their product keys? The only reason this guy did is because he used the enterprise version from his MSDN subscription rather than the normal or Pro version and in the case of using the Enterprise version this task would not normally be done by the user but by the sysadmin.
In this case Windows 8 did not prompt for the user for the key in the first place.
And you'll note it's the Enterprise version, not the consumer version.
It just assigned an invalid one during installation, and doesn't provide the user the option to enter a valid one if it fails.
Because it's the Enterprise version, the normal and Pro versions do not do this.
As for your strawman, GUI options for this task were already present in previous versions of Windows, they didn't clutter the UI. This is a regression.
You can cry that it's a regression all you want but it's moronic to suggest that a function that would virtually never be used by any user be presented in the GUI.
Heavy, bloated
in terms of bloat
It had just about as much extra bloat as ME
even with the bloat
every service pack bloated the OS
and bloat it up more.
added bloat features
It really is a term used by people that have no idea what they're talking about to describe any kind of progress, look at how bloated OSX has become they just keep bloating it, oh Ubuntu is so bloated look at all the extra bloat in there with their bloat features...see it's totally meaningless.
Who needs to stumble upon that? Who's changing their product keys? The only reason this guy did is because he used the enterprise version from his MSDN subscription rather than the normal or Pro version and in the case of using the Enterprise version this task would not normally be done by the user but by the sysadmin.
Who needs to stumble upon that? The sysadmin and whoever else needs to install the thing, who else?
Talk about moronic.
I think it does offer binary compatibility, but the driver has to be specifically written for it.
Who needs to stumble upon that? The sysadmin and whoever else needs to install the thing, who else?
If your sysadmin needs to 'stumble upon' this then he is not qualified.
Can you point out to me where this is documented in Microsoft's official documentation either on their website or Windows 8?
From what I see the sysadmin will need to search for it using Google or Bing.
That doesn't seem moronic to you?
Can you point out to me where this is documented in Microsoft's official documentation either on their website or Windows 8?
No, i'm not a sysadmin and i've never had to use it before.
From what I see the sysadmin will need to search for it using Google or Bing.
So?
That doesn't seem moronic to you?
No, search engines are a highly efficient way of finding information.
"Every other version is pushing boundaries, taking chances, kind of like ..."
Intel? Intel is famous for its CPU release cycle, where a new CPU design is followed by a die shrink:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock
So Microsoft appears to bei in good company. Of course most people don't have to deal directly with CPUs, so strictly from a marketing point of view, Intel can afford a faster release cycle.
"Tick-Tock is a model adopted by chip manufacturer Intel Corporation since 2007 to follow every microarchitectural change with a die shrink of the process technology. Every 'tick' is a shrinking of process technology of the previous microarchitecture and every 'tock' is a new microarchitecture. Every year, there is expected to be one tick or tock."
Surprised this is just now being commented on. It's been looking this way since developer preview.
XP + nLite = what do you need more ?
Recipes for USA bankrupt - http://tinypaste.com/0d66f dd = dollar deluge (printed in the infinity)
I love XP because its the only OP that runs Bookshelf 2000 which I need to help write my posts...
Not as good.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife